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Luke 24: What Happened on the Road to Emmaus?

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Jesus has just been raised from the dead, but none of his disciples believe him. But on the road to Emmaus, Jesus reveals he has defeated death and that he really is God in the flesh. Seth and David talk about the verse that launched Spoken Gospel and why it is good news that Jesus opens our eyes.

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What Really Happened on the Road to Emmaus: Unpacking Luke 24:13–35

Show Notes

David and Seth, hosts of the Spoken Gospel podcast, dive into the story at the heart of their ministry's mission — the road to Emmaus in Luke 24:13–35. This special episode, chosen by Spoken Gospel's monthly donors through a community poll, explores the passage where Jesus opened all of Scripture to reveal himself as its surprising climax. It is the foundational text behind everything Spoken Gospel does: showing how every corner of the Bible points to Jesus and his good news.

The Triptych of Luke 24

Luke 24 is structured as a literary triptych — three panels that tell a unified story while building on each other. The first panel features two women who come to the empty tomb perplexed and confused until angels announce that Jesus has risen. The second, and central, panel follows Cleopas and an unnamed companion on their seven-mile walk to Emmaus, where Jesus himself opens the Scriptures and breaks bread before vanishing. The third panel shows all the disciples gathered together, still struggling to believe, until Jesus appears, lets them touch him, and opens their minds to understand how the law of Moses, the prophets, and the Psalms all speak of him (Luke 24:44).

Each panel follows the same pattern: a group of people who do not believe Jesus has risen, an encounter or appearance that does not immediately resolve their doubt, and then a moment of divine revelation that finally opens their eyes. This repetition is deliberate. The middle story — the road to Emmaus — receives the most narrative space because, in the chiastic literary design Luke employs, the center holds the interpretive key. Everything in Luke 24 happens within the span of a single day, from the women's dawn visit to the tomb, through the seven-mile walk and return, to the evening gathering of the disciples in Jerusalem. The pace is breathless. The stakes are enormous. And the repeated structure drives home a single point: human beings cannot arrive at resurrection faith on their own. Something must be given to them.

Crushed Hopes on the Road

The scene on the road to Emmaus begins with two heartbroken disciples walking away from Jerusalem. Cleopas and his companion — most commentators believe the unnamed figure is likely his wife or sister, since a man would typically have been named — are leaving the holy city they never expected to leave this way. These were devout Jews who had pinned their Messianic hopes on Jesus. They expected him to liberate Israel from Rome, ascend to David's throne, conquer their enemies, and usher in an age of peace. First-century coins from the Maccabean Revolt had been stamped with the phrase "The year of the Lord's liberation," tying the defeat of Rome to the fulfillment of God's promises. And yet Jesus, at the start of his ministry in Luke, declared that he had come to bring "the year of the Lord's favor" — language that echoed those expectations but redirected them entirely.

Now Jesus was dead, and these two disciples were crushed. They were heading home with their heads low, embarrassed for having followed a supposed Messiah who turned out, in their estimation, to be a failure. Then Jesus appeared behind them and asked what they were discussing. With their eyes "seized" — the Greek suggests their recognition was actively withheld — they did not know who he was. Ironically, they proceeded to preach the facts of the Gospel to Jesus himself. They told him about a prophet mighty in deed and word, his death sentence, reports of an empty tomb, and even noted that it was "now the third day" since it all happened. They recounted his incarnation, miracles, death, and rumored resurrection. They had every historical fact at their disposal. And yet they did not recognize it as good news. Their unmet expectations blinded them to the reality standing right in front of them.

The Limits of Facts and the Need for Revelation

One of the most striking theological claims in this passage is that the facts alone were not enough. The empty tomb did not produce faith in the women. The eyewitness testimony of the women did not produce faith in the disciples. And here, even a detailed rehearsal of Jesus' life, death, and reported resurrection did not produce faith in Cleopas and his companion. The passive voice of the phrase "their eyes were seized" (Luke 24:16) points to a third party — God himself — actively withholding recognition. There is no narrative explanation for a disguise. Jesus should have been physically recognizable. The blindness was spiritual, not optical.

This has profound implications for how we think about apologetics, Bible study, and coming to trust in Jesus. The passage does not dismiss the importance of evidence or biblical literacy — far from it. But it insists that something more is needed. Even Jesus' own disciples, who had walked with him for years and heard him predict his suffering and resurrection on multiple occasions (Luke 9:45; 18:34), could not push past the spiritual barrier on their own. Their earlier inability to grasp his predictions about the third day was itself divinely ordained. This is humbling. It means that seeing Jesus for who he truly is — not just knowing facts about him — is ultimately an act of grace. If it were otherwise, only the educated, the intelligent, or the well-read could come to trust in him. Children, the uneducated, and those with intellectual disabilities would be excluded. The road to Emmaus insists that God opens eyes, and that this is good news for everyone.

Jesus Opens All of Scripture

After rebuking Cleopas and his companion as "slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken" — language that deliberately echoes Israel's ancient sin of hardheartedness and stiff-neckedness — Jesus asked them a pointed question: "Was it not necessary that the Messiah should suffer these things and enter into his glory?" (Luke 24:26). One commentator notes that this is the first time Jesus explicitly tied the title "the Messiah" to the necessity of suffering. During his earthly ministry, he referred to himself as the "Son of Man" or a "rejected prophet." Here, on this road, he made the connection unmistakable: the Messiah must suffer.

Then, beginning with Moses and all the prophets, Jesus interpreted for them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself (Luke 24:27). "Moses and all the prophets" is shorthand for the entire Old Testament, and the later expansion in Luke 24:44 to include Moses, the prophets, and the Psalms confirms that Jesus intended this comprehensively. The word "all" does not mean he quoted every verse in a seven-mile walk, but it does mean he was claiming that the whole sweep of Scripture — not just a handful of Messianic prophecies — finds its fulfillment in him. This is reinforced by how the New Testament authors themselves handled the Old Testament, finding connections to Jesus in passages like Hosea's "Out of Egypt I called my son," which was not originally a Messianic prediction in any obvious sense. The point of every story in the Old Testament points to Jesus, even if not every individual detail within a story does. The story of Rahab's scarlet thread, for instance, is not about the blood of the cross at the level of that specific detail, but the story of a Gentile rewarded for her trust in God's people does anticipate how Jesus rewards the trust of Gentiles. This is a crucial distinction that protects the practice of reading Jesus in all of Scripture from becoming an exercise in allegorical overreach.

The Breaking of Bread and the Opening of Eyes

Despite seven miles of Jesus explaining how all of Scripture pointed to himself, the two disciples still did not recognize him. The insufficiency of the facts has now been joined by the insufficiency of even the best scriptural explanation apart from divine revelation. When they arrived in Emmaus and urged Jesus to stay — since the day was far spent, likely closer to midday than evening given that everything in Luke 24 happens in a single day — Jesus sat down with them at the table. In a striking reversal of cultural expectations, Jesus took on the role of host in what should have been their home. He took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and gave it to them. And in that moment — tied directly to the breaking of bread in the Greek — their eyes were opened and they recognized him (Luke 24:30–31).

The connection between the broken bread and the opened eyes is not coincidental. It is cause and effect in the text. The act of breaking bread carries echoes of the Last Supper, the feeding of the 5,000, and Jesus' own words about eating his flesh in John 6. It also connects to the time of day: if this was a midday meal, it coincided with the hour of sacrifice at the temple in Jerusalem. Luke's Gospel opens with Zechariah receiving a revelation from an angel during the time of sacrifice, and now it draws to a close with another midday revelation — this time, the risen Jesus revealing himself over broken bread. The Messiah's death, the very thing that had shattered their hopes, turned out to be the source of their hope. Jesus made his own broken body the center of revelation, as if to say: the cross is not the obstacle to your faith — it is the feast.

Burning Hearts and the First Missionaries

The moment Jesus was recognized, he vanished from their sight. This disappearance puzzled the disciples then and puzzles readers now, but its meaning flows naturally from what has just happened. Once their eyes were opened to see Jesus in all of Scripture, they no longer needed his physical presence beside them. They had the Scriptures, and they were about to receive the Holy Spirit, who would dwell within them permanently. As Jesus himself said in John's Gospel, "I am going away, but I am sending the advocate" (John 16:7). The Holy Spirit inside you, as one pastor put it, is better than Jesus beside you — not because the Spirit is greater, but because the Spirit makes Jesus' presence inward and constant rather than outward and temporary.

Looking back on their walk, Cleopas and his companion asked each other, "Did not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while he opened to us the Scriptures?" (Luke 24:32). That burning was the first flicker of what would blaze into full flame on the Day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit descended as tongues of fire in Acts 2. The burning heart is what it feels like when the Holy Spirit opens Scripture and reveals Jesus — a growing, intuitive recognition that this is true, that this is good news, that this changes everything. And the natural response to a burning heart is not to sit still. Cleopas and his companion immediately rose and walked seven miles back to Jerusalem in the fading light to tell the eleven disciples, "The Lord has risen indeed" (Luke 24:34). Jesus had opened the Scriptures and shared a meal, and they became the first missionaries of the resurrection. The pattern was set: when Scripture is opened, bread is broken, and the Holy Spirit reveals Jesus, hearts burn — and burning hearts cannot keep quiet.

Transcript

Intro: [upbeat music] Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a ministry that's dedicated to speaking the gospel out of every corner of scripture. In Luke 24, Jesus told his disciples that every part of the Bible was about him. So each week, hosts David and Seth work through a passage of scripture to see how it's all about Jesus and his good news. Let's jump in.

David: [upbeat music] Well, welcome everyone to a very special episode of the Spoken Gospel podcast. Seth, how are you?

Seth: I'm just grateful to have such an awesome community that supports us-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... to make this podcast possible.

David: It's so true, and we are celebrating our community today because today's episode, uh, is a special episode, kind of outside our normal rhythm, because we held a, a online event f- just exclusively for our monthly donors, people who give a little bit or a lot-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... every single month to Spoken Gospel to help us make free resources like this podcast and give them away for free.

Seth: And we had a poll there-

David: Yeah, we had a poll

Seth: ... about which episode would you most wanna hear on the podcast, and this one won.

David: This one won. What really happened on the road to Emmaus, I think is how we worded it at the event.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Um, and so we're really, really excited to talk about this, uh, for several reasons. W-

Seth: Wha-

David: Like, one being this is, like, the foundational verse of Spoken Gospel.

Seth: Jesus opens up scripture and revea- talks about how every part of scripture is about him.

David: Yeah.

Seth: That's literally what we do.

David: It's kind of our thing. [laughs]

Seth: Uh, introductions. What's the main point of that book? How does that main point point to Jesus? Every single devotion, what's the main point of that literary unit of scripture-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and how does that point to Jesus? We are trying to recreate the conversation Jesus had-

David: That's right

Seth: ... on the road to Emmaus if he had 30 hours-

David: Yes. [laughs]

Seth: ... to do it, you know? Like, that's, totally.

David: Yeah. So we're really excited to just explore our foundational story-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... uh, scriptural story as an organization and as friends. Uh, Seth and I have kind of been wrestling out the implications of this story in Luke 24 for years together now.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Um, and then-

Seth: I mean, 10 years as a pastor, and then the, several years I've been a writer here-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... and then now on staff.

David: So it's just like, I'm excited to talk to you about this. Um, and then beyond that, uh, you had another reason why this was a, a-

Seth: Oh

David: ... foundational, important text.

Seth: Well, this is the beginning of the message of Christianity spreading.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So Jesus rises from the dead, and two women see him, and nobody believes them.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: It's not until the road to Emmaus, and Jesus opens up scripture and shares a meal with these two disciples, that people begin to believe that Jesus has actually risen from the dead, that he suffered and died. So, like, this is the beginning-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... of how Christian-

David: Of, of the Jesus movement

Seth: ... of the Jesus movement.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like, this is foundationally a very, like, important moment in redemptive history.

David: Yeah. It's also, like, the clearest I think Jesus really ever was in his earthly ministry about, like, his relationship with the Old Testament. 'Cause, you know, he'd say, like-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... "I've come to fulfill the Old Testament."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "Don't you know Moses wrote about me?"

Seth: Yeah.

David: And it's like, here, he's like, "Okay, let me open up the law and the prophets and show you how everything's about me." And we'll get more specific on what he was showing them.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: But, um, a- as we kinda get into this text, uh, before jumping straight into basically Luke 24:13-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... to 35-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... um, le- let's zoom out real quick and just say-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... okay, so Jesus has been crucified.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And, um, we-

Seth: He's been dead three days

David: ... he's, he's been dead for three days, and at the top of chapter 24, two women come to his tomb. And this kicks off a three-part repeated structure.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Uh, I was just reading a commentary that talked about how this is possibly one of the best examples of, uh, l- literary symmetry in the entire Bible.

Seth: Oh, crazy.

David: Um, and, uh, another, another commentary and compared it to a triptych-

Seth: Yeah, yeah

David: ... which I had to look up. Uh-

Seth: Yeah, like a painting that has three different parts.

David: Yeah, exactly right.

Seth: Yeah.

David: See, look, you're, you're more cultured than I am.

Seth: [laughs]

David: But yeah, and I was like, oh, and I've seen those before. It's, like, three panels-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... that tell a story to- when hung together.

Seth: Yep.

David: And, uh-

Seth: You ever seen The Garden of Earthly Divi-

David: Oh, no

Seth: ... uh, uh, Delights by, uh, Bosch?

David: I don't know.

Seth: It's that cra-

David: Oh.

Seth: Anyway.

David: That's exciting. I wanna look at that later.

Seth: Yeah, just look it up.

David: Um, and so anyway, and so there are three stories that all have repeated themes, very symmetrical themes.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And they're all making the same point, but they're also building on each other.

Seth: Mm.

David: And so you have-

Seth: All in Luke 24

David: ... all in Luke 24. And so what you have is you have the two women, and they come to the tomb. Why? Because they don't believe Jesus's message. They are seeking the living among the dead.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And they, and whenever they find that he's, his body's not in the tomb, they're perplexed.

Seth: Yep.

David: And, like-

Seth: Yep

David: ... that's the rebuke against the early church here, is that they-

Seth: Oh

David: ... didn't believe that Jesus was going to be raised from the dead. Uh, and so-

Seth: Right, because, and-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... specifically because Jesus said it so many times.

David: He said it so many times.

Seth: Even in Luke and in Mat- Luke 9:45-

David: Yes

Seth: ... Luke 18:34, "The s- Messiah must come-

David: Must suffer and die

Seth: ... and die."

David: Yes.

Seth: "Must suffer and die." He says it over and over and over again.

David: Yes.

Seth: And he even rebukes the disciple on the road to Emmaus, "How slow of heart you were to believe."

David: Exactly. And so what happens each time is you have a set of people who do not believe that Jesus has been raised from the dead. They believe that the death was final.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Uh, then they have an appearance of Jesus that doesn't quite solve the problem for them immediately. It's not until each of them have their eyes opened through a further revelation-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... that they then are, um, enabled to believe that Jesus is risen-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... from the dead.

Seth: So you have two women perplexed and confused-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and a vision of angels tells them Jesus is risen.

David: That's right.

Seth: You have two men on the road to Emmaus who are perplex- perplexed and confused until Jesus reveals himself.

David: Right. He opens their eyes at the breaking of bread.

Seth: And then you have all the disciples who are perplexed and confused, and they welcome-

David: Yep

Seth: ... the Emmaus road disciples, and they're not convinced until Jesus shows up and lets them put-

David: And, and importantly, opens their m- their eyes.

Seth: Eyes.

David: He actually, like, imbues his spirit onto them-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... to help them see how all the Mo- all of Moses, the prophets, and the Psalms are about him.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Which is, that's, uh, Luke 24:44, which is our, our verse at Spoken Gospel. "Everything written must be fulfilled."

Seth: Yeah, there's... I'm trying to find the verse right now. It talks about, um, their... Oh, yeah, "But their eyes were kept from recognizing him."

David: Yes.

Seth: Verse 16. The, I think the Greek is, "Their eyes were seized."

David: Ooh. Yeah.

Seth: So it's like God actually withheld-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... his revelation-

David: Right

Seth: ... from being revealed at that moment until something else happened first.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So, okay.

David: So that's the triptych.

Seth: That's the triptych.

David: The, yep.

Seth: And that triptych happens in one day.

David: Yes.

Seth: Jesus-

David: Really interesting.

Seth: Yeah. So the women go to the tomb, "Oh my gosh, he's not here." They go to the disciples, they don't believe them. That same day, the two people from Emmaus go out, walk the seven miles to Emmaus, realize they were talking to Jesus the whole time, walk back to Jerusalem-

David: [laughs]

Seth: ... tell the, to tell all the other disciples, and they all find out all in the space of one day.

David: Yes.

Seth: It's a busy day.

David: It's an exciting day.

Seth: Exciting day.

David: Yeah. And so, but we're gonna focus on that middle story-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... which if you guys have listened to the podcast for any length of time, you know we love things like inclusios and chiasms, which this, uh, and, and the most important part of a chiasm is-

Seth: Is the middle

David: ... the middle part.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And so that's why also the road to Emmaus being the middle triptych, the middle story-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... gets the most space.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Is it's the one that kind of holds all the keys to the story in a sense.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And so that's the one we're gonna focus on, and, uh, it's also real exciting. So we're gonna jump into it.

Seth: Yep.

David: And kinda just walk through the narrative, yeah?

Seth: Yeah. And I think the first thing to no- notice then is what we've already said, their eyes were seized. So what does that mean? It's like-

David: Well, hold on. We haven't set up the, like, the moment here.

Seth: Oh, sorry.

David: Like, we gotta set the set.

Seth: Set the, set the scene.

David: Yeah, set the meaning. So you've got these two disciples.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Uh, one we have their name is Cleopas, the other's an unnamed disciple.

Seth: Mm.

David: Most commentators believe this is probably a woman that is with him.

Seth: Okay.

David: Because she w- was unnamed. [laughs]

Seth: Oh.

David: And if it had been a man, it would've been named.

Seth: Although different culture.

David: Different culture.

Seth: Although they don't-

David: Yep

Seth: ... the Bible's not afraid to ne- mention women.

David: It's not, but that is what most people think is probably, uh, Cleopas' sister or wife.

Seth: Okay.

David: So anyway, um, and so they're walking, uh, to a town called Emmaus, which is a seven-mile journey from Jerusalem.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And they are talking amongst themselves about everything that's happened with Jesus's death.

Seth: Mm.

David: You can imagine what that conversation would've felt like, because these were two J- devout Jews who'd been waiting for the Messiah. They had all these ideas about what would happen when the Messiah comes, this promised one. He was gonna free us from Roman oppression. He's gonna ascend to David's throne. He's gonna conquer our enemies, bring peace on every side, elevate us to glory.

Seth: I read that there was one, at one point in time there was a revolt.

David: Yeah.

Seth: The Maccabean Revolt-

David: Yes

Seth: ... for a period of time under Roman rule. And for a while, uh, Jerusalem printed their own coins.

David: Ah.

Seth: And on the coins it read, "The year of the Lord's liberation."

David: Ah, yes.

Seth: It was like this, oh, when Rome is defeated-

David: Yep

Seth: ... that's when-

David: Yep

Seth: ... we are liberated.

David: And yet Jesus, whenever he came, he said, "I've come to bring the year of the Lord's favor," which is-

Seth: That's exactly right

David: ... different than what you're expecting.

Seth: And so when he's using that language that has in the past been associated with-

David: Yep. Which in Luke, which is interesting, in Luke, that's the starting point of Jesus's ministry.

Seth: It is exactly the same.

David: So anyway.

Seth: Yeah, he's like... Yeah, anyway, yes.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So, like, they're unmet expectations.

David: Yes.

Seth: Unmet expectations.

David: So they are crushed.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: They're going home. They're leaving the holy city. Like, this is not the journey they thought they would ever have to make again.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: To be hanging their heads low, returning to their probably hometown-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... having been embarrassed for following this Messiah who clearly turned out to be false.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And they're talking about it, trying to make sense of everything that happens, and then out of nowhere, Jesus pops up behind them and is like, "Hey, whatcha talking about?" [laughs]

Seth: Yep. That's what happened.

David: And their eyes, as you were saying, were kept, seized.

Seth: That was all necessary context for what I wanted to-

David: [laughs]

Seth: ... to, to prematurely get into.

David: But yes, their eyes were seized from seeing that it was Jesus.

Seth: So who seized their eyes?

David: Oh, uh, I mean, what, what options do we have?

Seth: God.

David: Okay. [laughs]

Seth: Um, themselves, their grief.

David: Oh, okay.

Seth: Their, their, their misplaced hopes.

David: Their ignorance.

Seth: Um, their ignorance. I think the compelling reading is that God prevented-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... them from seeing Jesus for who he truly was.

David: Yes.

Seth: It's not, it's see, like, Jesus isn't, doesn't, shouldn't look different.

David: No.

Seth: You know? It's like they knew what he looked like as a human.

David: Yep.

Seth: All of his scars are gone, but, like, physically there should've been no problem with them recognizing him. We aren't told that Jesus is wearing a hood. We're not told, you know, like, there's no physical de-

David: Wait, all his scars are gone?

Seth: Well, I would assume that when his body is resurrected, except for the two that we're told he has.

David: I mean, then he probably has most of them, some, some.

Seth: Maybe he has, anyway, whatever ha-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... whatever he looks like-

David: Right

Seth: ... he should've been recognizable-

David: Absolutely recognizable

Seth: ... is the point.

David: Yes.

Seth: So it's like the fact that they can't recognize him and that we're not given any narrative details-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... to describe why he'd be disguised-

David: Yep

Seth: ... kinda leaves, like, God-

David: Right

Seth: ... as the one seizing their eyes.

David: And you've, it's probably not themselves because of the passive voice of that seized word.

Seth: Mm-hmm. That's exactly right.

David: That it's usually a passive involves a third party-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and there's no one else around-

Seth: Right

David: ... uh, except Jesus.

Seth: Yep.

David: And so most likely, and Jesus even in his earthly ministry, we're told that he reveals himself to those whom God has given him.

Seth: Yep.

David: And so that's always been Jesus's purview-

Seth: Yes

David: ... is to either withhold or reveal himself to whomever are his.

Seth: Yep, that's exactly right.

David: And so he has that ability. [laughs]

Seth: And there is a theme of p- spiritual blindness that goes through the gospels.

David: That's right. In our, in our Luke video actually, in our, in our Spoken Gospel introduction to the Book of Luke, that's what we went all in on, was spiritual blindness, and we had a, a person with a blindfold on.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Uh, like a black blindfold, and they were phys-

Seth: Oh, that's right. That's right

David: ... they were physically blind.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: And they were healed, but then we learn that the Pharisees who denied who Jesus was were spiritually blind, and they wore white blindfolds.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And it's not until Jesus comes and through the Holy Spirit removes that spiritual blindness that we're able to see who he is. So that's, I think, what's happening. I think you're right.

Seth: So why would God hide himself, why would Jesus hide himself from presumably faithful disciples-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and heartbroken disciples? Like-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... why seize their eyes?

David: Yeah.Um, I think [laughs] 'cause this is a huge debated question.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Uh, I think it's to show, just because it happens three times-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... so it's not just here, it happens three times, that there's a required revelation in order for people to believe. I think it's to show our need of one of Luke's most important themes in his two books, Luke and Acts.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Our need of the Holy Spirit, our need of divine support [laughs]

Seth: Right

David: ... to believe in the message he's written about, the, the gospel message.

Seth: And, I mean, that makes sense. In the first story with the women, they don't believe until angels-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... tell them to do so.

David: Yes.

Seth: These people don't believe until Jesus opens up scripture and shares a meal with them.

David: Yep.

Seth: And then the disciples don't believe them until Jesus shows up and lets themse-

David: And opens their minds

Seth: ... and opens their minds.

David: Yep.

Seth: So why does God seize so that he can later reveal?

David: That's exactly right. Yeah.

Seth: Um.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And why is that important?

David: Well, I mean, so it, it's important because these people, and we can m- progress a little in the narrative to answer that question.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: The- these two men, I think this is so interesting, these two men-

Seth: Men and women

David: ... knew, men, man and woman, sorry.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: Thank you. These two people knew the gospel in a sense. They knew the facts of the gospel.

Seth: They had seen Jesus face to face.

David: And what's funny is, but not only that, they preach the gospel to Jesus in a sense, because they say, Jesus comes up and he says, "What are you guys talking about?" And he says, "Oh, you know, everything that's been going on." And he's like, "Oh, what things have been going on?" And he's like, "Are you the only person in all of Jerusalem who does not know what has happened these past days?" And then he preaches him the historical events of the gospel narrative. He s- you know, he says like, "Well, there was this man named Jesus, and we believe that he was a, a prophet from God, mighty in deed and in power, and he did all these mir- th- these miracles, but he was sentenced to death. And we, we, some have said, some of our own party have said that he rose from the dead, and we even hoped that he was the Messiah." And it's like, so they've preached his incarnation, [laughs] his, his good works, his miracles, his death-

Seth: Mm

David: ... his presumed resurrection, and their Messianic hopes placed in him, and yet they don't know-

Seth: Well-

David: ... that it's good news.

Seth: And even more, even really ironically, and it is now the third day-

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... since these things happened, Jesus references-

David: The third day [laughs]

Seth: ... his third day over and over and over again, Matthew 9:22-

David: [laughs]

Seth: ... Matthew 18:33, Matthew 13.

David: Yep.

Seth: Like, Jesus has talked about a third day-

David: Yep

Seth: ... a lot.

David: A lot.

Seth: So for them to, like, know that Jesus was a great prophet who did miracles, who suffered like they, he prophesied that he was going to do-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and that it's the third day, and for them to feel that the redemption of Israel is not at hand, is a type of kind of a staggering blindness considering how often Jesus emphasiz- emphasized that.

David: Right. And you wanna know something crazy?

Seth: Okay.

David: That blindness was also from God. We're told in Luke that they were kept from believing or h- a- about the third day.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And so it's like this was the missing piece, is that they w- th- like, humanity, even Jesus' own disciples who spent time with him, were kept from believing in the fact of what Jesus said, that he would rise again on the third day.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: That was a spiritual barrier that they could not get through on their own.

Seth: Mm.

David: I mean, and, like, it's also just, like, hard to believe regardless.

Seth: Right.

David: But they were actually kept from believing it, and it, they needed this moment with Jesus to-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... spiritually push past that barrier.

Seth: It ma- uh, the one thing that I thought about was, like, an empty tomb is not enough to bring faith.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And I was like, I think, like, apologetics has such a strong role-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... in the Christian life.

David: Absolutely.

Seth: But, like, I feel like this text is forcing me to think about the limits of the, the argumentation for the historical facts. Even if I could prove that Jesus did all the miracles that he said he did-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... even though I could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the tomb was empty, there was no body there, there's no explanation for it, there's something more that's needed.

David: Yep.

Seth: And that's not to knock apologetics.

David: Definitely not.

Seth: That's to say that's what this text is demanding, I think, of what are the limits of the facts?

David: Yep.

Seth: Like, the facts of the resurrection, the fact of his death, the fact of his fulfillment of prophecy wasn't enough to convince the people who saw it happen.

David: Right.

Seth: The actual eyewitnesses.

David: Right. There's always something that must take place for a person to become a believer, and that is their eyes must be opened by Jesus.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And I think the same thing applies, we, we often apply this story, since we're talking about it, we often apply this story to Bible reading, and I think really appropriately-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... because in response to these people's unbelief, uh, you know, uh, Jesus opens the Bible to them. We'll talk about that in a second.

Seth: Yeah.

David: I'm just trying to stay on the revelation thing.

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David: Um, it's like w- we cannot, we can come to the Bible and we can read it really well.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: We can know about chiasms [laughs] and we can-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... know about inclusios. We can read Greek and Hebrew. We can know about all the context of the first century or the ancient Near East, but if we don't pray, you know [laughs] like, "Holy Spirit, open my eyes to see wonderful things in your Word," we will not get past ink and paper, to move to face to face, to use the language-

Seth: Language

David: ... from the last couple weeks in-

Seth: Yeah, yeah

David: ... 2 and 3 John.

Seth: It's like, really f- it's, like, offensive in one way.

David: Mm.

Seth: It's like I can't read the facts well enough to be saved.

David: Right.

Seth: I can't, to see Jesus, I can't read the facts well enough. And, like, I think that's something that's a knock to my pride. Like, you know, I-

David: Mm

Seth: ... I, I wanna say, like, well, I saw the evidence, I weighed the options, and that was a determining factor. But to always know that there's something of God's divine hand in that moment is a knock to my pride.

David: Right. And it's, it's kinda meant to be-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... that humility is such a huge part of God that he values, and so is grace [laughs]And those two things go so hand-in-hand with this idea that-

Seth: Mm

David: ... Jesus opens our eyes, enabling us to believe-

Seth: Mm

David: ... so that even our belief is an act of grace.

Seth: Because what's the other option? Only the intelligent-

David: Yes

Seth: ... can see Jesus?

David: Exactly right. Only the ones-

Seth: Which is, which is not the message of Luke.

David: Right.

Seth: Only the ones that can read the Bible well enough.

David: Right.

Seth: The, only the ones that understand the facts well enough. It would preclude children.

David: Yes.

Seth: It would preclude the mentally disabled.

David: Yes.

Seth: It would preclude-

David: The uneducated crowds

Seth: ... the uneducated.

David: Yep.

Seth: Like, there, to have it any other way, apart from God doing it, would mean that by necessity, so many m- more would be unable to-

David: Mm

Seth: ... experience the grace of Jesus.

David: Yeah, and that's good news.

Seth: That is good news.

David: Yeah. Um, I mean, I often talk to this, uh, to, like, our community group.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: When they're, you know, like, 'cause I'll nerd out on the Bible with them, you know, and, you know, they'll ask a question about a text, and they're, they'll be asking the wrong question about a text, you know?

Seth: [laughs]

David: And I'm like, "Oh, well, actually, if you think about da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da."

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: And I get all nerdy, and they're like, "Oh, that's so helpful. Oh, my gosh."

Seth: For sure, right.

David: "How would I have ever known that?"

Seth: Right.

David: "Is there..." And I was like, "Well, you read commentaries."

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David: You know, and everything like that. And a lot of times, they've, there's been these moments where they're just like, "I just don't feel like I have enough time," you know? I- I- it's our full-time job to study the Bible.

Seth: Right.

David: Uh, they, it's not theirs, and it's like, they're like, "I don't feel like I have enough time to know my Bible well enough to, like, see Jesus clearly."

Seth: Mm.

David: And I'll pull out this story [laughs] and tell them, "It's not up to you. Look at these men."

Seth: Mm.

David: "Look at, look at, look at these two people."

Seth: Yeah.

David: They had all the facts. They knew the Bible extremely well, the Old Testament. They knew it extremely well, but it wasn't until Jesus opened their eyes to see how it was all about him-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... that they, like, could actually-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... behold him. And it's like y- the best teacher is the Holy Spirit that you have inside you.

Seth: Yeah. The best teacher is reading the Bible.

David: Right.

Seth: And the Holy Spirit t- walking along-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... so I've heard somebody refer to this, like, as an intuition. Seeing Jesus in all of scripture is, like, almost an intuition, which-

David: Right

Seth: ... is an interesting way to talk about what the Holy Spirit does in us.

David: Yep.

Seth: Like, he gives us new intuitions, new, like, predilections, new directive, like a new direction our heart tends towards-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... in reading scripture. You, it's not about education, although there is an interesting fact that, like, Christianity is w- is the only major religion that demands some degree of proficiency in its text in order to be a part of its community.

David: Mm.

Seth: Like, that's a part that's unique. Islam does not demand that type of understanding of the Quran-

David: Mm

Seth: ... or the Bhagavad Gita in Hinduism.

David: Mm.

Seth: Like, Christianity is unique in that being tied to the text-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... is part of what it means to follow Jesus.

David: Right.

Seth: Uh, to see Jesus.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Anyway.

David: That's really interesting. Uh, and so after they preach Jesus, his own gospel story, not knowing it's Jesus or the gospel, Jesus says that they're slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken.

Seth: "Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into glory?"

David: Right. So l- let's stop there before the next-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... phrase.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: Um, Je- Jesus calls them slow of heart to believe-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... all that the prophets have spoken. I mean, that is a loaded Old Testament turn of phrase right there.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, what was Israel's constant sin?

Seth: Hardheartedness.

David: Hardheartedness, stiffneckedness.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: You know? [laughs] Like, that was always their problem, was that they didn't believe God.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Um, he told them he would provide in the wilderness, and they didn't need to go out and gather quail on the Sabbath.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But they did anyway, right? They, he told them they don't need a physical representation of God in an idol, but at Mount Sinai, while God was on the mountain in a theophany, they built an idol, and God calls them-

Seth: [laughs]

David: ... stiff-necked. It's like this was-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... constantly happening, and he's, so he's saying, he's like, "You are no different-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... from all those who did not choose to follow me up until my resurrection.

Seth: Mm.

David: All of you have been hard-hearted. It was the hardheartedness of the Pharisees and the chief priests that led to my crucifixion in the first place. It's the spiritual lineage of attack from the blindingness of the enemy that's leading you to-

Seth: Mm

David: ... not see me for who I am." I mean, it's a pretty firm indictment.

Seth: Yeah, I mean, yeah. And I keep thinking about all the times Jesus quoted the prophets about himself.

David: Mm-hmm, yes.

Seth: "The Son of Man must suffer and die. The, the Chosen One must suffer and die."

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Um, well, I was reading one commentator that what Jesus does in this moment that Jesus didn't do throughout his ministry was call himself the Christ-

David: Oh, yeah

Seth: ... as he refers to his sufferings. He, he called himself the Son of Man.

David: Mm.

Seth: He calls himself a rejected prophet.

David: Right.

Seth: Like, "Just like the prophets, you killed me. Just like the Son of Man must be lifted up," you know? He'll say all that during his ministry, but here, he says, "The Christ must."

David: Ah, yeah, that's interesting.

Seth: And so they've, they're, they know the prophets.

David: Uh-huh.

Seth: They heard the prophets spoken by Jesus, but they could not see that that was true, must be true of the Christ, of the Messiah.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: That's-

David: Yeah.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So that's the big thing here, is, um, what is the, what's the core issue that Cleopas and his companion have with what has occurred in Jerusalem at Jesus' crucifixion, you know?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: It, it's the fact that the promised One of God, the Messiah, died.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: That's the issue that they have, is that they, even though they knew the Old Testament, [laughs] they did not expect their Messiah to suffer and die.

Seth: Yeah.

David: You know, they, uh, they did not, they did not k- know the, they did not think of the suffering servant in Isaiah 55-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... or 53 as-

Seth: Yeah, right

David: ... Jesus.

Seth: Or even, like, I mean, this is kind of intense, but what did we just talk about in 2 John?

David: Mm.

Seth: Like, who is the Messiah except him who comes by water and by blood?

David: Right.

Seth: And there was a d- it was dif- it's difficult to accept the fact that God can die.

David: That's exactly right.

Seth: And-

David: The gospel's super offensive. We're, we're told that it's a stumbling block.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah.

Seth: For Jews, it's foolishness.

David: And yeah, it's stupid.

Seth: Yeah.

David: How could God die?

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for, for-

Seth: Sorry

David: ... modern people, I think it's-

Seth: Right

David: ... pretty dumbfounding.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And it's like, but that's the whole point, and that's in, in, in my opinion, that is why-The Messiah tarried for 2,000 years, or, or-

Seth: Right. You-

David: ... however long throughout the Old Testament.

Seth: Or why Jesus didn't come before-

David: Right. Why didn't he just-

Seth: But-

David: ... come at the beginning? It's to, to, to show us throughout so much history, not only our need for a, a Messiah, you know, and to show us about the character-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... of God and the depravity of our sin. You know, like, w- we are, you know, we needed that that time, but beyond that, it's like he wanted to embed history [laughs] and his-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... inspired word, the Old Testament-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... with point after point, proof after proof, promise after promise that God was going to come and God was going to die for the sins of his people.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And it's like if he didn't have all that, like we would not have believed when it happened.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And it... That's why I like to call the Old Testament our first and longest gospel.

Seth: Right.

David: 'Cause it's just telling that story-

Seth: Yeah, yeah

David: ... that God is going to come and God is going to die for the sins of the people over and over and over again.

Seth: Yes.

David: And it's like that's... and that's what... so that's what Jesus does next.

Seth: And if you've listened to our podcast, through any of Alton's books, it's like-

David: That's what we do

Seth: ... we try to do that-

David: Yeah. [laughs]

Seth: ... every single time. Yeah, you're right. And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

David: Yeah. So, um, Moses and all the prophets? Is that-

Seth: Uh, that's what my translation says.

David: Yeah. Great.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So, uh, that is shorthand for the whole Old Testament.

Seth: Yep.

David: Uh, just-

Seth: Moses, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy.

David: Deuteronomy, the Torah.

Seth: And then the prophets being-

David: Everything else

Seth: ... everything else.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Um, so much, uh, just because those are the two main headings of the Hebrew Bible.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Now, we'll get the full breakdown, uh, in the next story, which are, which are Moses, the prophets, and the Psalms.

Seth: Yep. Yep. I was, was gonna say that.

David: That's the, that's the whole Bi- That's like... But like Jesus did that, too. He didn't skip, he didn't skip-

Seth: He didn't skip, he didn't-

David: He didn't skip wisdom literature. [laughs]

Seth: No, he did not.

David: It's, uh, it's just shorthand. I mean, so much so that you could, uh... And he, Jesus, does this in John. He uses just Moses-

Seth: Yes

David: ... the writings of Moses-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... uh, to refer to the whole Testament.

Seth: Yep.

David: It was, it was common parlance.

Seth: So I mean, this is a big deal for us personally-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and we think for Christians everywhere because Jesus, in this moment, is telling us how to read the longest, the longest section of your Bibles.

David: That's right.

Seth: And-

David: How to, and how to interpret them

Seth: ... and how to interpret them, and I think that's like a missing piece in a lot of churches-

David: Yes

Seth: ... a lot of pastors, a lot of Bible studies.

David: Yes.

Seth: We read the Bi-

David: It was for mine for so long. [laughs]

Seth: I mean, yeah. We read the Bible because it's primar- it's about me-

David: Yep

Seth: ... or a way to help me feel better about myself or a way to help me live a better life-

David: Right

Seth: ... or to live a more godly life-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... or a more righteous life.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Ultimately, the Bible is about me being more like God.

David: Right.

Seth: Which-

David: Which it's not-

Seth: Not about-

David: ... less than that.

Seth: It's not less than that.

David: Right.

Seth: That is definitely part of it.

David: But it's way more than that.

Seth: But what Jesus is saying, primarily, firstly, the Bible is about me and what I'm accomplishing for you-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... not what you must do-

David: Right

Seth: ... or should do or could do. That's a big difference.

David: Big difference.

Seth: We talk about, like, we win when, like, our mission, our, our-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... organization wins when the conversation around your Bible study doesn't say, "Well, what does that mean f- for you?"

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Or, "What should, what should we do about this text?"

David: Right.

Seth: But like, "How does this text tell me more about the good news of Jesus?"

David: Yes. That's the needle we're trying to move in society, in the, in Christian society, is to change the conversations that happen at coffee shops when two friends get together and study their Bibles.

Seth: Yeah.

David: "So what does this text say to you?"

Seth: Yeah.

David: That's the question that's often asked.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And we wanna change that question to-

Seth: To

David: ... first and foremost, I don't mind that question-

Seth: It's a good question

David: ... if it comes next.

Seth: Yes.

David: Uh, and, uh, we want the first and most central and most grounding question to be, how do you see Jesus in this text?

Seth: We want your first Bible study question to be the first thing Jesus did when he had a Bible study.

David: Yes. That's very-

Seth: Yeah. [laughs]

David: Yes. Absolutely right. Um, sh- so there, I, I was gonna ask you should we talk about it, but in me asking the question, um, we're gonna talk about it. Uh, there's a debate-

Seth: Uh-huh

David: ... around what all scriptures mean.

Seth: Oh, well, that's right.

David: Yep.

Seth: Which-

David: So some people think that it's, uh, and I would fall in this camp, that all the scriptures meant that he went through the totality of the Bible. Not that he read every single passage in the Old Testament-

Seth: Ah

David: ... but that it, it was referring to all of scripture.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And he showed them probably key moments throughout-

Seth: Yep

David: ... all of scripture that-

Seth: It's only seven miles

David: ... he fulfilled. Right. It's only seven miles. [laughs]

Seth: Yeah.

David: Uh, other people wanna say that it's, um, he showed them all the times the Old Testament prophesied about him.

Seth: Oh, like, there's 10 times in that seven miles-

David: Those are the ones

Seth: ... he got, he got the 10 out

David: ... and there's no more than that. Uh, I just-

Seth: I think-

David: I can't, I can't see that, especially with how the New Testament authors in the epistles and things-

Seth: Right

David: ... used so many things that seem to have nothing to do with Jesus- [laughs]

Seth: Right

David: ... to talk about that, that this is a fulfillment. Jesus fulfilled this, like when Hosea says, "Out of Egypt I've called my son."

Seth: Yes. Yes.

David: This has nothing to do with a clear promise of the Messiah.

Seth: Yeah. I'm even thinking, "And beginning with Moses and all the prophets."

David: This is the start.

Seth: This is the start of the conversation.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And then the fact that when Jesus shows up to his disciples in the next story-

David: Yes

Seth: ... the fact that he expands with Moses and the prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Like, I think they're... I think Jesus in- means to be more expansive than a few representative stories.

David: Yes.

Seth: Um-

David: Yeah. And-

Seth: Because it must

David: ... yep

Seth: ... because to your point, you have things in scripture that don't seem like they get tied to Jesus, like the one-

David: Right

Seth: ... in Matthew. But also, the fact that the Book of Revelation, which is, you know, the last book of the Bible-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... that's talking about Jesus, God's plans for all of human history, has some 400-and-something Old Testament allusions.

David: Mm.

Seth: John couldn't, shouldn't have put 400 allusions to different text if only f- 10 representative stories-

David: Right

Seth: ... were about Jesus. Like-The Bible leans that direction in solutions, in stories, and the rep- the stories we do have that point to Jesus.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: I think, I think the... I think every story points us to Jesus.

David: Yes. Yep. And it's like, and even in that second, in that third story I mean, the one you were just talking-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... about with the Moses, the prophets, and Psalms, that's our, that's our foundational verse here, Luke 24:44, and it says, uh, the, the Greek, you know, together-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... which is funny. I just literally-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... finished hanging up these Greek words on my wall-

Seth: Mm

David: ... in my office. Uh, they literally translate, "Everything written must be fulfilled."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And it's just, like, simple as that.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Everything in our Bibles that was written, is referring to the Old Testament-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... must be fulfilled in Jesus.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Now, that could have already been fulfilled in his earthly ministry. It could have been fulfilled in his death and resurrection. It could be fulfilled in his reign. It could be being fulfilled through his indwelling of his people now. It could be fulfilled when he returns in the Second Coming, or in our eternity with him.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But Jesus must, there's an imperative to the, to the Greek there.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Everything written must be fulfilled in Christ.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: There's a, there's a bent to the universe. I mean, the, the, the, you know, the, like Paul said, "From him, through him, and to him are all things."

Seth: Yep.

David: S- that includes God's Word. [laughs]

Seth: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David: So anyway.

Seth: No-

David: That's my, that's my hard sell on-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... all being all. [laughs]

Seth: The only limitation-

David: Mm

Seth: ... that I would give to the all-

David: Yes

Seth: ... is that not every single deta-

David: Yes

Seth: ... like, what we, what we, what we don't mean by that is that the scarlet thread-

David: In-

Seth: ... that hung out of-

David: Yes

Seth: ... Rahab's, uh, window-

David: In Judges, yeah

Seth: ... in, in, in Joshua

David: Joshua, sorry

Seth: ... in Joshua, that doesn't mean that detail is about the bloody cross.

David: Right.

Seth: That's not what we mean.

David: No.

Seth: What we mean is that that story about a Gentile's faithfulness-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... being shown, like, being shown f- faithfulness to God's people and being rewarded for it, that story-

David: Yes

Seth: ... has something to tell us about Jesus and those types of people.

David: Yes, because Jesus rewards the faith of a Gentile.

Seth: Yes. The point of every story points to Christ, not every single detail within the text-

David: Right

Seth: ... points to Christ.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And that, and I just offer that as a warning-

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... for those of us who get lost in the details. And also to, again, some weird ways, our ch- w- th- this idea that Je-

David: A well-intentioned idea

Seth: ... the Jesus in all of Scripture is not new.

David: No.

Seth: It's ancient. You go read people right aft- 100 years after Jesus died, they're doing this work.

David: Oh, yeah.

Seth: And they have fun with it.

David: They do.

Seth: A lot of fun with it. [laughs]

David: They have a little too much fun with it sometimes. [laughs]

Seth: So just say, like, that happens, and we're like, anyway.

David: Yes, totally.

Seth: That's all I was trying to say.

David: Yeah. Uh, but yes, okay. So Jesus is opening all of Scripture, showing them how it all points to him, and primarily, I, I just wanna point this out too, at least for this text, i- he is proving to them through all of Scripture why the Messiah must die. It's very, it's very pointed.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Um, you know, like I said, I think there's things about Jesus' ascension in the Old Testament.

Seth: Uh-huh.

David: I think there's things about his earthly ministry. I think there's things about the ongoing work of new creation-

Seth: Right

David: ... in the church.

Seth: Which is why when Jesus escalates-

David: Yes

Seth: ... to the next story, he says, "Everything written must be fulfilled."

David: Uh-huh.

Seth: Like, there's an-

David: It broadens it

Seth: ... th- there's a broadening there.

David: But here, and just, I'm just noting this. There's not really anything other than, like, the, the problem the pe- that these two people had-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... was that the Messiah died.

Seth: Yeah.

David: That wasn't supposed to happen in their brains. [laughs]

Seth: Right.

David: And Jesus is proving to them through the Scriptures why he must-

Seth: Mm

David: ... which was the common track that Paul took on his missionary journeys to synagogues.

Seth: That's right. That's right.

David: He would go in, he would go to a synagogue, and he would prove to them in all the Scriptures-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... why Jesus must be the Messiah.

Seth: Right.

David: And so it's just, it's interesting. It's an evangelistic strategy to prove the gospel out of the Old Testament.

Seth: That's right.

David: It's just like, we don't really do that ver- [laughs] very much anymore.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Anyway, but like it happened with the Ethiopian eunuch.

Seth: Right.

David: He was reading Isaiah, and he's like, "Oh, that's about Jesus," and then he was converted. [laughs]

Seth: Yep. [laughs]

David: It's like, it's just cool. So anyway, so he, he does that. They're walking, and-

Seth: And they-

David: ... all of the sudden

Seth: ... right, they draw near to the village to which they were going, Emmaus, and Jesus acted as if he was gonna keep going, but they urged him strongly, saying, "Stay with us, for it's towards evening, and the day is now far spent." And so he went and stayed with him. So-

David: Is there anything here... I, I've not thought this before, but it's, uh, that happens in Genesis a couple times, I think, where it's like this-

Seth: Travel details?

David: ... this prodding to stay, "Oh, stay with me."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, "Stay a little longer." I think it happens with, like, the angels-

Seth: Oh, yeah

David: ... in Sodom and Gomorrah or something.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: It's probably nothing, but-

Seth: But, I mean, it's definitely, there's, as you said, like, there's moments where hospitality is refused or, like, denied-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... and then eventually accepted. Like, that happens.

David: Yeah. I think, yeah.

Seth: I also think this might be to help us, like, situate them in a time of day.

David: Oh, okay.

Seth: So he said, I mean, I mean, that's a big... Why, why is the, "towards evening and the day is now far spent"? We've already said at the b- top of this podcast everything right now happens in the space of one day.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: So normally when I read this, I think it's nighttime. So it's almost nighttime.

David: Uh-huh.

Seth: More than likely, that's not the case.

David: Right.

Seth: It's probably closer to the middle of the day-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and this is more lunch, not dinner, and why that's important maybe-

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... is that there's actually, you've already mentioned one of them, there's, like, a pattern throughout the Gospels of God revealing himself in the daytime on roads. So, like, Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch, he is walking along.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Uh, he's in his chariot reading the Bible, and then somebody comes up to him in the middle of the day and explains that it's all about Jesus. He is converted on the spot, and then there's a sudden disappearance.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And we'll get to that in a second.

David: Right.

Seth: Same thing's gonna happen here. Jesus suddenly appea- uh, disappears.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Uh, we have Paul on the road in the middle of the day to Damascus. A bright light appears that blinds him-

David: Mm

Seth: ... which is a play on what's happening right here-

David: Right

Seth: ... until Jesus reveals who he is, and the blinders are taken off of him.

David: Right.

Seth: You have Jesus and the Samaritan woman in, during his ministry in the middle of the day. It's hot. Nobody wants to be out at that time, and Jesus opens her eyes to see him as the Messiah, and she becomes the first missionary, as these people will become the missionaries to the disciples-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... to tell them about Jesus. So, like, there is a themeOf like daytime revelations-

David: Mm

Seth: ... of the Son of God and midday sacrifices within the Jewish system.

David: Mm.

Seth: Jewish sacrifi- I, this one might be a little more spec-

David: Okay

Seth: ... speculative, but I was thinking about it.

David: Okay, yeah. Talk, talk about it.

Seth: Well, how does Luke open? With Zechariah-

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... in the daytime going to the temple-

David: Right

Seth: ... to make a sacrifices, and an angel appears to him to reveal to him that a son will be born.

David: Right, John.

Seth: Right. John.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And this is, he's gonna be the precursor to the Messiah.

David: Right.

Seth: So you have like, you have like another revelation-

David: Mm

Seth: ... of the way the story's gonna be unfold. Je- and now-

David: Oh, I see where you're going.

Seth: Right. [laughs]

David: [laughs]

Seth: And now you have another midday time when the priest normally would be making their sacrifices, and Jesus is about to break bread.

David: Right, symbolizing his own body.

Seth: Symbolize his-

David: The ultimate sacrifice to reveal to him who he is.

Seth: So-

David: So Luke begins and ends with a midday sacrifice and revelation about the Messiah.

Seth: Yeah.

David: That's pretty cool. [laughs]

Seth: Yeah, so it [laughs] so like I think that's kinda fun-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... to string those things together, and maybe that's what he's referencing right here.

David: That's pretty cool.

Seth: Um-

David: I've not seen that before. I don't think there's any passage of scripture I'd studied more than this [laughs] and I've never, ever seen that before.

Seth: [laughs]

David: That's really cool.

Seth: Um, so yeah. So let's get to that point. So then he sat down at table. Oh, so think about this then.

David: Uh-huh.

Seth: Jesus had been walking with them seven miles-

David: Right

Seth: ... explaining how all of scripture points to him, and they still haven't recognized who Jesus is yet.

David: Right, yes.

Seth: So I was even thinking, like we talked about the insufficiency of the facts of the resurrection-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... the empty tomb.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Now we're being exposed to the insufficiency of the explanation of scripture-

David: Right

Seth: ... to reveal who Jesus is.

David: That's right.

Seth: Which is, goes back to like we have to have our eyes opened-

David: Yep

Seth: ... first. So you could be an expert in scripture-

David: Yep

Seth: ... you can know all the facts, you can know how scripture points to Jesus-

David: Yes

Seth: ... and still not see Jesus.

David: Mm. Yeah. There's that dependence, and need, and-

Seth: Yep

David: ... humility. Uh, and they sit down at the table with him, and then it's, it's interesting 'cause if you're reading this from a, you know, from a first century perspective, you would expect it's their presumably hometown.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: The, it was their journey. You know, like they're the ones who urge Jesus to sit at the table. They are the hosts.

Seth: Yes.

David: They should be breaking the bread, paying for the meal, leading the conversation.

Seth: [laughs]

David: You know?

Seth: Blessing it with-

David: Blessing.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah, they should be the ones blessing it.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And instead, we see Jesus doing that-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... taking the role of servant, host, humble. Like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... it's just a cool little-

Seth: It's super interesting

David: ... Jesus subverting the cultural expectation moment.

Seth: Yeah, and then I, what it also does, so like, let me just read the verse.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: "When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed it, and broke it and gave it to them. And their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he vanished from their sight."

David: [laughs]

Seth: It's like, what has just happened, right?

David: Yeah.

Seth: There's so much happening right-

David: So much happened right there.

Seth: Um, he's the host. I also, I mean, I immediately think of communion-

David: Of course

Seth: ... because he broke bread there. There's no wine here. So I think that there d- I don't think this is a communion meal-

David: No, it's definitely not

Seth: ... that he's doing right here. But like in a way, it's the finishing of the communion meal. Like communion with Jesus, fellowship with Jesus was broken-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... by the betrayal of Judas and then his death. And now Jesus reveals himself for the first time as himself over another meal.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: It's as if he's completing the meal that he began with his disciples, with these new disciples.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like, there's a, there's a finishing of the broken communion that happened at his death, which I think is interesting.

David: Yeah, that is very interesting. Uh, yeah, it's also interesting that like there's this food, this mediator of food, you know-

Seth: Right

David: ... that brings revelation.

Seth: When, when Jesus broke the bread, that's when he saw them.

David: So s- it's, it seems very strange to me.

Seth: Yeah, and it, and the, the, the Greek is, "When he took the b... Uh, um, and their eyes were opened in the breaking of bread." Like in that moment-

David: Uh-huh. Right, right

Seth: ... is when they saw him.

David: Those are tied together.

Seth: Those are tied together.

David: It's not just a, a, a, a happenstance that Jesus said, "I'm gonna open your eyes. Oh, and I'm breaking bread."

Seth: No.

David: In the breaking of the bread, their eyes-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... were opened. It's a cause and effect.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah. Why? Like-

Seth: Man

David: ... like, why are those two things tied together?

Seth: Well, I think, I mean, you've mentioned one.

David: Mm.

Seth: Jesus is the host.

David: Yes.

Seth: Jesus i- is this-

David: The g-

Seth: ... generous revealer.

David: Yeah. He's the only one who can invite us to his table.

Seth: He, yes.

David: Yeah.

Seth: He's the only one who could open their eyes to see hope for the first time.

David: Yes.

Seth: Like, what, like, what... I mean, if I went over to somebody's house and expected food-

David: Mm

Seth: ... but got hope. [laughs]

David: [laughs]

Seth: You know, you know? [laughs]

David: What's on the menu tonight?

Seth: Hope.

David: Hope. [laughs]

Seth: I was like, I have all these crushed dreams, unmet expectations, just like, oh, my whole life is falling apart and the Messiah's dead. Hope.

David: Hope is for dinner.

Seth: Hope is for dinner. What a like, what an amazing moment right there.

David: [laughs] Yeah.

Seth: Um-

David: Yeah. I'm, why, why else? Why the breaking of the bread being tied to the opening of their eyes? Uh, I mean, part of me thinks if it is, um, if we are meant to think about the breaking of Jesus' body here-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... you know, that it's, I, I've made this sacrifice for you.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Let your eyes be opened. The gospel became personal.

Seth: Right. Like, the, it was like an incarnational moment.

David: Right.

Seth: The bread is broken.

David: Yep.

Seth: And in that moment of breaking the bread, Jesus chose to open their eyes symbolically connecting-

David: Symbolically

Seth: ... and he even, and if it is happening at the time of the sacrifices back at the temple-

David: Exactly

Seth: ... it's like, it's like this really powerful moment.

David: Right, because he, i- if he's going through the Books of Moses, telling them how he fulfills all of scripture, he's going to talk about the temple, their most important part of their-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... of their society and religion.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: He's gonna talk about the sacrifices. He's gonna say, "Of course, the Messiah had to die. He's the lamb of God."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "He's the final sacrifice. He is the day of atonement." He would've had this conversation with them. Like, if there's gonna be five things they talk about in a seven-mile journey, that's one of the five.

Seth: Yeah.

David: You know what I mean? And so for him, for them to look down, uh, or to look up at the s- at the sun and know what time of day it is, to know what's happening in the Jerusalem they just left at the temple-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... to know that this is the time of midday-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... like sacrifice, and for Jesus to break the bread, it's like everything he saidThey're, God, Jesus is allowing it to just come crashing in on them and be like, "Ah, the one breaking the bread is the one who was broken for us to feed us. Like, He is the sacrifice. He is the temple." Like, it all just came crashing down in this moment.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Uh, it's pretty cool. Yeah.

Seth: Yeah.

David: I also love, I love the idea too that He chose the breaking of bread to be the way their eyes were opened just because of how... And I don't know-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... if this is personal or if it's-

Seth: Right

David: ... or if I should project this onto a dictum for all of Christians.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But it's like, I feel like there, He centralizes the cross. Like-

Seth: Mm

David: ... it, the central part of the story is the thing that they were hung up on, which is-

Seth: Mm

David: ... that the Messiah died, and He's like, "No, that's the good news."

Seth: Oh.

David: "Come and eat of it."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "Let me open your eyes." And it was just like He made His own death-

Seth: Which-

David: ... the center

Seth: ... is interesting you say that 'cause where does Jesus say that, "Eat my body"-

David: Mm

Seth: ... after the feeding of the 5,000?

David: Right.

Seth: And this story actually has a ton of verbal and linguistic links back to that story more so than the communion story.

David: Interesting.

Seth: So, so there's all... I mean, I don't wanna get into the Greek-

David: Yeah, yeah

Seth: ... but basically it hyperlinks you back to the feeding of the 5,000-

David: Mm

Seth: ... right after which Jesus says, "Come and eat of my body."

David: Yeah, which is interesting too to think about the order the books were written. It's probably John-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... in ri- or w- are you saying it was the, it was Luke who, it was in, in, in Luke's feeding of the 5,000, or was it-

Seth: It's, it's in John's feeding of the 5,000.

David: Okay. Yeah, I figured.

Seth: But I wonder if it's in Luke's too, actually. I don't-

David: But yeah

Seth: ... I don't know.

David: The John, the John 5 and 6 thing, I think, is what you're talking about.

Seth: Yes. I, that's what I had in mind, but-

David: But it's just, like, really interesting to think about John seeing the story of Emmaus-

Seth: Uh-huh

David: ... and then reflecting that moment in his story of the feeding of the 5,000.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Either way it goes-

Seth: Either way it goes

David: ... which is really interesting.

Seth: Yeah. And the feeding of the 5,000 is one of the few miracles that's in every single gospel.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Which is-

David: I- it's als- so I mean, I mean, that's another really important thing that, that bring, the, the, the feeding of the 5,000 and Jesus in His own incarnational ministry saying, "Eat my flesh," you know-

Seth: Mm

David: ... is, like, a reason why the breaking of the bread moment was the central moment of revelation, you know?

Seth: Yep.

David: 'Cause it's just like, for Jesus, there is this hunger, sustenance, provision that He means to communicate by dying for us.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And what is required of those, you know, like, to, to come to Him? Is it to know all the facts?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Is it to be really excellent Bible students, you know?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, those things are great, but the number one and only core requirement for you to come to Jesus is to take the bread.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Is just to trust, eat, re- rely on-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... the bread of His crucifixion.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And it's just like that's the simple gospel.

Seth: It is.

David: It's like we've had all these facts. We've been on this long journey. We've opened the Bible, but here, take and eat.

Seth: And I keep thinking about how, yes, we've elevated this moment, symbolic wait achieved.

David: Yeah. [laughs]

Seth: This is also normal.

David: Right.

Seth: Any host would break bread.

David: Right.

Seth: It's such an ordinary act of hospitality-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... that reveals Jesus the Christ.

David: Yep.

Seth: And it brings me back to what we've talked about recently in some of our John podcasts but also all the times that Jesus talks about hospitality in His own ministry.

David: Mm.

Seth: Like, "How you treat the least of these is how you treat me."

David: Yep.

Seth: Uh-

David: There is the gospel story embedded in hospitality.

Seth: Right, and, like, the f- the, the way the first missionaries are built is over a table.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: There's something, like, efficacious.

David: Yeah.

Seth: There's something powerful when you fellowship with community and open up the scriptures and break bread together. Jesus is revealed.

David: Yeah.

Seth: That's the first way it happened, and it will continue to happen that way.

David: Mm. Yeah. That's really, that's really powerful. Um, okay. So after this moment, their eyes are open. Jesus vanishes.

Seth: [laughs]

David: Why?

Seth:Uh-

David: That's the one, when I preach this sermon-

Seth: Mm

David: ... and I preach this text, and I do a Q&A afterwards, that's, like, the number one question I get is, why did Jesus disappear [laughs] after, after the, after their eyes were opened? Any thoughts on that?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, it's not the core question of the text in my-

Seth: No

David: ... you know, but it's an interesting question.

Seth: Because-

David: Oh, yes

Seth: ... when we open the scriptures with new eyes, Jesus is there.

David: Yes.

Seth: You don't need Him there anymore-

David: Right

Seth: ... because you see Him in scripture.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like-

David: And He is with you in the Holy Spirit.

Seth: He's with you.

David: Which He'll, He's about to, like, breathe on-

Seth: Yes

David: ... His disciples to give them that, that, that ability.

Seth: Yes.

David: Uh, it's kinda like what he said in John, what Jesus said in John-

Seth: Mm

David: ... where He's like, "I'm going away, but I'm sending the advocate."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And, uh, I can't rem- was it Peter Greer or-

Seth: I don't know

David: ... uh, I can't rem- who said the, the-

Seth: Oh

David: ... the Holy Spirit inside you is better than Jesus beside you?

Seth: J.D. Greer, yeah, yeah.

David: J- J.D. Greer.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: That's it, yeah. And so anyway.

Seth: Yeah, it's like-

David: I think you're right.

Seth: Yeah, that's e- I think that's what's happening. He, Jesus disappears once they understand all of scripture is about Him-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... and that they've shared a meal with Him.

David: Yep.

Seth: And think about that again. It's like when we open scripture and we invite people into our home, we are being hospitable to Jesus Himself, He says in Matthew 25.

David: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Seth: And we are doing what Jesus did. Do you feel alone or without Jesus? Eat a meal with a friend and open the scriptures.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And Jesus is there.

David: Yeah. Yeah. I think the, y- you're absolutely right. I think there, the other thing I wanna point out there based on what you said is another kinda foundational worldview we have about the Bible here, which is based in 2 Corinthians 3 and 4, and it's that the, the Bible contains and it has a window-

Seth: Mm

David: ... a cleft into, um, a vision of the face of Jesus, that, uh, he talks about how all of Moses, [laughs] again using that term, has a veil over it, just like Moses, the physical, earthly Moses, put a veil over his face, and that when the Holy Spirit enables us, the veil is removed, and like Moses looked through the cleft of the rock to see the glory of God on Mount Sinai-

Seth: Mm

David: ... we too can look through the cleft of our Bibles and see-

Seth: Mm

David: ... the glory of Jesus' face in His gospel.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And it's like that is what is happening here is- And it, and it, it's, it feels crass to say it this way, but it's like we don't need Jesus beside us, you know, because we have Jesus right in front of us in our Bibles, and we have Him in a thousand different ways.

Seth: Right.

David: You know?

Seth: Well, it's why, it's also like, so we said God is the one who blinds the eyes.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: God is the one who opens the eyes, too.

David: Yes.

Seth: So how does He do that? You assumed it was the Holy Spirit. I think that's the right answer, but also because of what it says next.

David: Mm.

Seth: "Did not our hertz, hearts burn inside of us when He explained scripture to us?" Like, they had this sense of growing in understanding, this burning in them that will be fulfilled when the Holy Spirit comes on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2 in a blame of fire.

David: Right.

Seth: They're experiencing what it means to have the Holy Spirit in them.

David: Yeah.

Seth: It reveals Jesus. It preaches good news. It feels like a burning inside of you that changes you.

David: Yeah. That's really good, and I think that's the goal of seeing Jesus in all of scripture, is that your heart would burn inside you, that the Holy Spirit would come alive-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... that there would, that... And, and ultimately, too, the goal is, is, is in 2 Corinthians 3 again, is that as we behold Him, we become like Him-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... from one degree of glory to another, that the Holy Spirit is doing something in you to make you more like the Jesus that you're beholding.

Seth: And what did Jesus do in this moment?

David: Mm.

Seth: He told people about Him.

David: Yeah.

Seth: He shared a meal and told people about Him, and what's the next thing they do after their hearts burn?

David: They go and tell people about Him. [laughs]

Seth: And they rose and went up and went back to Jerusalem, the seven miles back to Jerusalem, and found the 11, and they told them-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... "The Lord has risen."

David: Yeah. Man, that's so good. That's the story of Emmaus.

Seth: That's what really happened on the road to Emmaus. [laughs]

David: That's what really happened. [laughs]

Seth: I don't know if, like, what really happened is, like, the right title for this, but-

David: That's how we put it in the poll.

Seth: Yes, but I was like, I mean, this, it's kinda clear what ha- what really happened. [laughs]

David: [laughs]

Seth: But, like, pulling back the veil of what happened.

David: Yeah, so it's been fun. Well, uh, yeah, so that's, uh, that's our foundational verse here at Spoken Gospel. Uh, and again, I just wanna say another thank you to our monthly donors.

Seth: Thank you.

David: Uh, this is a gift to you and our whole podcast community. Um, but we, we hope this blesses you guys, our monthly donors who are listening to this-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... who chose this, this topic, and, uh, as a gift from our monthly donors to everyone else listening who's-

Seth: Yes

David: ... not a monthly donor, this is our gift to you.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Uh, and that's, that's our monthly donors' gift to you, is that they are the ones who are paying to make this possible, for us to sit down, um, sometimes over a meal, s- mostly over coffee and water.

Seth: Water.

David: But, uh, [laughs] to-

Seth: Chocolate

David: ... talk about Jesus. So thank you all so much-

Seth: Thank you

David: ... for making this possible, um, and for, for being with us. Do you know what book we're in next, Seth?

Seth: Uh, 1 and 2 Peter.

David: Ooh, 1 and 2 Peter.

Seth: Yeah.

David: All right.

Seth: So-

David: That'll be exciting

Seth: Super excited. We'll start that, uh, next week.

David: All right. Well, we'll see you guys there. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you in 1 and 2 Peter. [upbeat music]

Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel creates short films, devotionals, and podcasts like this one. Everything we make is free because of generous supporters like you. To see our resources, visit spokengospel.com or subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. See you next week. [upbeat music]

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What Really Happened on the Road to Emmaus: Unpacking Luke 24:13–35

Show Notes

The Triptych of Luke 24

Crushed Hopes on the Road

The Limits of Facts and the Need for Revelation

Jesus Opens All of Scripture

The Breaking of Bread and the Opening of Eyes

Burning Hearts and the First Missionaries

Related Resources

Introduction to Luke

View our devotional on Luke 1-2

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