Intro: [upbeat music] Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a ministry that's dedicated to speaking the gospel out of every corner of scripture. In Luke 24, Jesus told his disciples that every part of the Bible was about him. So each week, hosts David and Seth work through a passage of scripture to see how it's all about Jesus and his good news. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]
David: Well, welcome everyone to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. Seth, how are you?
Seth: You remembered this time.
David: I did. If you listened last week-
Seth: [laughs]
David: ... Seth really called me out for not jumping right into-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... asking-
Seth: I need-
David: ... his inner-
Seth: ... affirmation-
David: ... thoughts
Seth: ... really quickly or I just tank. [laughs] Um, I'm doing well. I'm excited to talk about the end of the Book of Amos, perhaps the most intense part of the Book of Amos.
David: Yeah, dead bodies everywhere.
Seth: It's the quote everybody loves-
David: It's the, it's a great pull quote from Amos
Seth: ... after, "Let justice roll like a river," it's, "Dead bodies everywhere." Where is that again? Amos-
David: That's in chapter eight.
Seth: Chapter eight. Yeah.
David: Yeah.
Seth: It's, uh, it's one of the-
David: Yeah. Chapter eight, verse three.
Seth: Yep.
David: "So many dead bodies, they are thrown everywhere. Silence."
Seth: So that's where we're going today, guys. [laughs]
David: Get excited. Everyone's like, "And I'm skipping to the next book."
Seth: [laughs]
David: Don't.
Seth: Don't. This has-
David: This-
Seth: ... some of Amos' most famous prophecies.
David: Yes.
Seth: If you've heard of the plumb line-
David: Whoo
Seth: ... we're about to talk about that. Um, but-
David: And this, we have, like, an actual messianic, Davidic line prophecy.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Good Garden of Eden restoration stuff coming.
Seth: Yes, and it's, and that's even picked up again in the Book of Acts.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So if you wanna understand what's happening at the Jerusalem Council with circumcision, you need to know what's happening in the-
David: Stick around
Seth: ... Book of Amos. It's gonna be great.
David: We're gonna get there.
Seth: So here's what's happening.
David: All right.
Seth: Uh, in a series of visions-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... Amos sees Israel's destruction play out five different times.
David: Oh, that's... [laughs] Okay.
Seth: That's what happens in this last section, before the promises of David and the Messianic hope.
David: Okay.
Seth: So the first vision is a plague of locusts.
David: Okay.
Seth: Kinda like what, one we saw in Joel, and uniquely, it happens after the king's cutting. The king-
David: After the king's what?
Seth: Cutting. The king's mowings.
David: Oh.
Seth: And so the idea is that Israel would grow its crops-
David: Oh
Seth: ... and the first fruits would go to the king. That would be the taxes.
David: Those are supposed to be God's.
Seth: Um, yeah. [laughs]
David: [laughs]
Seth: Let's push that aside for a second.
David: Uh-oh.
Seth: It would go, the tax, the k- the king would take his taxes.
David: Okay.
Seth: But then the locusts are gonna come, meaning the people of Israel, the, the average person of Israel-
David: Ah
Seth: ... will, not just the royalty, but the entire nation will experience God's judgment on their immorality and idolatry. Um, and Amos prays for God to relent, and he says, "God, please forgive us. How can Jacob stand? He is so small." And then the Lord relented concerning the locusts-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and he said, "It shall not be," said the Lord. Um, so a couple things here. One, we went, talked about last time about how the good news of prophetic, fatherly warnings.
David: Mm.
Seth: And this is an example of how these warnings are calls for return and repentance, and that when Israel returns and repents, or at least there's a representative like Amos-
David: Right
Seth: ... who repents, that God will relent.
David: Yes.
Seth: That he will stop the, his justice coming down too quickly.
David: Yeah. God says, "This is going to happen. This punishment is coming." Amos stands in the gap and says, "Lord, please forgive," and then the Lord relents and says-
Seth: Mm
David: ... "It shall not be."
Seth: Yep. And the way that he does this is actually really interesting. He says, "How can Jacob stand? He is so small."
David: Mm.
Seth: That's really significant because this goes all the way back to the Book of Deuteronomy-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... when God first chose Israel.
David: Right. He said, "Out of all the nations, I chose you, but not because you were the biggest or the strongest of all nations, but because you were so small."
Seth: Right.
David: [laughs]
Seth: So he's saying, "God, remember how small we are? We can't stand up under your power. Please relent."
David: Yeah. Our smallness was the reason you chose us.
Seth: Right.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Don't take advantage of our smallness and destroy us.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Continue to choose us. And just like before, how we talked about the great consequences that come from failing their great calling as God's chosen special covenant people, Amos again is calling back on God's promises to give them mercy when they deserve justice.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um, so that's happening-
David: Okay
Seth: ... in the first one, and then the second, um, vision is of a judgment by fire.
David: Fire of judgment that eats up the land.
Seth: And the sea, apparently.
David: Oh, yeah.
Seth: It just, like, licks up the waters of the sea.
David: It's like really hot fire. [laughs]
Seth: It's real hot fire. [laughs] Just evaporates everything. And again, this is a vision.
David: Yep.
Seth: And again, Isra- and Amos s- doesn't repent this time. He just says, "Oh, God, please cease."
David: Oh.
Seth: "Please stop."
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um, "How can Jacob stand? He is so small." And then it shall not be.
David: Right.
Seth: God relents yet again within his visions. The third vision comes up, and this is the famous one of the plumb line, and God shows Amos a building, and there was a plumb line. And the building is presumably crooked-
David: Right
Seth: ... because of what-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... a plumb line is supposed to do.
David: Yeah. A plumb line is l- is a string with a weight tied to the bottom of the string, and gravity- [laughs]
Seth: [laughs]
David: ... makes the string hang straight. And so this was a, a rudimentary level.
Seth: Mm.
David: This is how you would use a le- like, a vertical level. So whenever people-
Seth: Yep
David: ... in ancient days were building walls-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... they would use a plumb line with the s- the string holding a weight to make sure that the walls were-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... perfectly up and down.
Seth: As long as the corner of your ro- your building stone hit that line-
David: That's right
Seth: ... it would be a straight line.
David: You're good. But God is saying, "I've brought my divine plumb line over to the house of Israel, and it's straight up and down, but Israel's walls are crooked."
Seth: Right. And Amos can't argue with God.
David: Right. [laughs]
Seth: He doesn't ask God to stop.
David: Yeah.
Seth: He doesn't ask God to repent. The evidence is so clear when God's standard of justice and righteousness is set up. Israel is going to fall over.
David: Yeah. I'm just thinking, like, of, like-
Seth: How he, he doesn't... It's just funny. It's like you, you think he's gonna get into a rhythm here and be like, "Forgive."
David: Yes.
Seth: "Cease."
David: Yes.
Seth: And it's like, "Okay, let me show you something." And it's like I, I just picture, like, I- this has happened to me, where it's like I've hung something up on the wall.
David: Yeah.
Seth: You know? And I'm like, "Oh, that's so good. It's level." And Megan, my wife, will be like, "That is not level." I'm like, "It's definitely level."
David: "So level."
Seth: And then we go get a level-
David: And it's not level
Seth: ... and the bubble's way off.
David: [laughs] Oh, yeah, yeah.
Seth: And it's like, okay, it's not le-
David: It's not level
Seth: ... like, I can't argue.
David: You can't argue with the level. [laughs]
Seth: I can't say, "Forgive me. Stop telling me that it's not level."
David: The evidence-
Seth: Right
David: ... is too clear. [laughs]
Seth: Yeah. And it's probably important we actually read the next verse because it plays into what we're about to read here. The, and, um, "Behold, I'm setting up a plumb line in the middle of my people, and I will never again pass by them."
David: Mm.
Seth: So there's two ways I- you could think about that. One is the way that God passed by in front of Moses and revealed himself to Moses.
David: As a gracious appearing
Seth: Or, or you could also think about it as the way that God passed over-
David: Ah
Seth: ... Egypt and Israel.
David: In a way of sparing them.
Seth: In a way of sparing them.
David: Okay.
Seth: Um, so to never again pass by them-
David: Mm
Seth: ... would be to either never come into contact with them again-
David: Mm
Seth: ... to either save or to be gracious to them, or to never consider their affliction. And it's, there's... You know what I mean?
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, it's like, "I won't pass by you. I won't look on you anymore." But the reason I flagged both those stories in the Exodus narrative is Exodus is gonna be brought up here in a second.
David: I see.
Seth: But I think the pass by language is just important to flag.
David: Okay.
Seth: But then he says this: "The high places of Isaac shall be made desolate."
David: And those are the places where the idols were worshiped.
Seth: Yep.
David: Okay.
Seth: "The sanctuaries of Israel shall be laid to waste, and I will rise against the house of Jeroboam with the sword."
David: Oh, well, Jeroboam, that's the guy who built the idols. There you go.
Seth: That's the guy who built the idols. So and then Amos' visions are interrupted by the, by the high priest Amaziah.
David: Okay. Well, I guess before we go there-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... um, let's talk about this representative-
Seth: Ah, yes
David: ... intercessor that we have in Amos.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Right? We have Amos, like, God promising punishments.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Amos standing in the gap saying, "Lord, please forgive. Remember your promises to small Israel." And then the Lord says, "It shall not be."
Seth: Yeah.
David: And it's like, I mean, I guess I could jump through a bunch of hoops to make a longer-
Seth: Jesus kinda- [laughs]
David: ... story, but it's like, I mean, Jesus is the one who stands in the gap, and God looks at us and says, "The wages of sin is death." And then Jesus stands in the gap and says, "Lord, please forgive." Instead of, "Remember-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... Israel" or "Remember this or that"-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... he says, "Remember me."
Seth: Mm.
David: Right?
Seth: Right.
David: Like, "I have paid the debt. I-
Seth: Yeah.
David: "The wages of sin is death, and I paid the death." And then the, like... And then what, what we hear about our future condemnation are just these words that God spoke to Amos.
Seth: Mm.
David: "It shall not be."
Seth: Mm.
David: The Lord relents.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Our future condemnation, it shall not be.
Seth: Yeah. And in the same way that Is- that Amos pointed back to the moment when God chose Israel-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... to silence the condemnation, like, we can do the same thing. We can point back to the cross-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... the moment that we have been chosen by God, when we placed our faith in the cross, and the, the condemnation, uh, that we might be afraid of coming from God is canceled.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And the condemnation that comes from our enemies all the time is also canceled.
David: Yeah.
Seth: "There now therefore is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."
David: Yeah. And it's like I think it also, like, reverses the point of the plumb line, too, for us because the plumb line of God held up to our lives-
Seth: Mm
David: ... we would always be seen as crooked.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And what's amazing is through the Holy Spirit, the inner working of the Holy Spirit making us more and more like Jesus every day, no longer is the plumb line the standard by which we're judged. It is the standard to which we're being conformed.
Seth: That's really cool.
David: Like, Jesus is making us-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... upright buildings. [laughs]
Seth: Yeah.
David: You know?
Seth: There's a plumb line of righteousness and judgment, and brick by brick, every day, God is making us-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... sta- stack up-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... to that line.
David: And then 1 John 3:2, I feel like I quote that on the podcast so much, but when Jesus returns, we will become like him when we see him as-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... he is. That plumb line of, of justice and the character of God that runs straight up and down, when we behold Jesus finally at his second coming, we will be a straight building. Like, I love that.
Seth: I love that.
David: We'll no longer be crooked in the-
Seth: And then even Paul talks about how we're being built up as temples unto the Lord-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... like a holy, the church is a holy building. Man.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That building metaphor is more, uh-
David: Pervasive
Seth: ... rich-
David: Yeah. Oh, yeah
Seth: ... than I thought, I thought it was.
David: Really rich.
Seth: Um, that's really cool.
David: Awesome.
Seth: So yeah.
David: Okay. So Amaziah, the high priest.
Seth: So-
David: Amaz- Which is funny that we jump from Amos as an intercessor of the people of God's sin-
Seth: Mm
David: ... to, uh, the high priest, who is supposed-
Seth: Ah
David: ... to be the intercessor-
Seth: Yes
David: ... for the people's sin.
Seth: That is fascinating.
David: So it's just an interesting little, like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... bridge here.
Seth: And I think what it's supposed to do, like, narratively, is to show the royal reaction to Amos' prophecies.
David: Right.
Seth: So Amos is doing, all of prophesying against the house of, uh, all of Israel, and particularly in verse nine, the house of Jeroboam-
David: Right
Seth: ... with his sword.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So it's the royal response, the high priestly response to this other intercessor, like you just named, and then it's also God's response to the royal response to Amos. [laughs]
David: Is that okay?
Seth: Yeah.
David: Okay. Okay, yeah.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So, so unpack the story. What happens?
Seth: So Amaziah, the priest of Bethel, where the false temple was, sent by Jeroboam, king of Israel, said, he s- he sends someone to Jeroboam and says, "Amos is conspiring against you in the house of Israel. The land is not able to bear all his words. And thus Amos has said Jeroboam shall die by the sword and Israel must go into exile away from this land." He functionally accuses Amos of treason.
David: Right.
Seth: But-
David: Amos is out there in, in the, in the cities saying that Israel's gonna go into exile-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and God's gonna kill the king by the sword-
Seth: Mm
David: ... because of all their injustice. And so the, they send a liaison to the king and say, "Amos is a treasonous monster-
Seth: Right
David: ... who is forming an insurrection."
Seth: Yeah.
David: Okay.
Seth: Yep, and he's saying, "We gotta, we gotta deal with him." And then Amaziah speaks to Amos directly and says, "Get outta here because this-No one can question the king, functionally and then Amos just responds and says, "You know, you're disqualifying me because I'm not the prophet you expect-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... but God chose me when I was a fig farmer and I know that I am God's prophet by his election, his choice of me and you keep telling me not to prophesy but I'm going to prophesy."
David: Mm.
Seth: And he prophesies directly against the false high priest, Amaziah, and says, "Your wife is gonna be a prostitute in the city-
David: Damn
Seth: ... and your sons and your daughters are gonna die and your land is gonna be divided up with a measuring line, a plumb line."
David: Right.
Seth: The same plumb line of justice that is proving Israel's crookedness will be the plumb line that determines, uh, how his la- his land will be allotted-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... because presumably, he stole some of it.
David: Right.
Seth: Like, it was gained by unjust means.
David: Yep.
Seth: So that justice and righteousness will reallocate the land to who it is meant to go to.
David: Yeah. So Amos is proving-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... here that, a, once again, that he is God's chosen prophet-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... regardless of where he came from.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Um-
Seth: Or because of where he came from-
David: Right
Seth: ... almost.
David: Right.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And, um, and, like, his words against the king aren't necessarily, like, aimed at treason. They're aimed at just being the mouthpiece of God.
Seth: Yeah. He's calling out Israel's idolatry and the way that's le- necessarily to injustice, and he's saying, "These are the covenant consequences," backed up all the way back in Deuteronomy.
David: Right.
Seth: This isn't an issue of national fidelity or patriotism. It's an issue of fidelity to God.
David: It's not necessarily political, it's theological.
Seth: Right.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And he's misunderstanding his theological take-
David: Right
Seth: ... as a political take, which is pretty common.
David: It is common.
Seth: Yeah.
David: It's, you know, it's like, it, you know, I think, I think people can easily be seen as, uh, hostile to their own countries whenever they point out things that are wrong in them.
Seth: Yep.
David: And it's like, no, I can enjoy being a citizen of whatever country I find myself in-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and also see whenever it's unjust.
Seth: Yeah, whenever it's failing-
David: In fact-
Seth: Yes. [laughs]
David: Wouldn't that be a good way to love where I live, is to-
Seth: Exactly
David: ... like, let justice roll in that place?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And it's like, so, like, you can be on the side of justice and calling out systemic problems of evil in your country, and it would be wrong to just automatically accuse you of, like, "Oh, so you... So why don't you just move? Why don't you go-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... go, go to some other country then?"
Seth: Right.
David: And it's like-
Seth: And it's like, well, I belong to the Kingdom of God. I've already moved there.
David: Right. I've al- [laughs]
Seth: I've already moved.
David: My citizenship is of another kingdom.
Seth: But I also live here right now.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So yeah, it's interesting that that plays out kind of in the same way today-
David: Right
Seth: ... and where if you criticize your country, it's consi- considered treason, but no, it's a part of the reality when God's kingdom is built on God's laws and you have other laws that are on top of those laws-
David: Mm
Seth: ... that are... Anyway.
David: Yeah. And so, like, Jesus, like, a similar thing happened to Jesus then, like-
Seth: Yes.
David: Right?
Seth: Exactly right.
David: He's, He's, He's prophesying about, uh, the temple's going to be destroyed, you know? [laughs] Uh, he's talking about the religious hypocrisy of the day. You know, uh, He's, He's taking, uh, leaders like Herod to task, political leaders like Herod to task.
Seth: Mm.
David: And so people accuse Him of treason, but not only political treason. They accuse Him of religious treason.
Seth: Yeah, blasphemy.
David: Of blasphemy-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... um, against God, and it is for that crime that He is crucified.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Um, and so, like, He is walking in the prophetic footsteps of Amos-
Seth: That's right
David: ... uh, and, and fulfilling, like, what it looks like to be the mouthpiece of God, regardless of religious and political unrest that comes against you.
Seth: I think Jesus as a prophet is something that I've not meditated on as much.
David: Mm.
Seth: You know, it's like, Jesus is a prophet.
David: He's the king. Yeah.
Seth: He's the king.
David: Yeah.
Seth: He's the Son of God. He's the, the sac-
David: Yeah, even the high, the new high priest, but like-
Seth: Yes, the suffering servant.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, all those seem pretty-
David: Yeah, and it's probably, like, part of that might be, like, a way that we've just... Like, the church has almost insulated us from that, just because of, like, that's how other religions talk about Jesus.
Seth: Ah.
David: Right? Like, Islam says-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... "Jesus, oh yeah, we believe in Jesus. Jesus was a prophet."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And it's like, so we're afraid to call Him a prophet.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: You know? 'Cause it's like, well, if He's a prophet, then He's not God. It's like, no, He, He's both.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so, yeah, it's true.
Seth: Yeah, I th- And just the idea that Jesus is repeating the prophetic ministries-
David: Mm
Seth: ... of Amos or Joel or Obadiah. He's calling out the same things. His life script is the same.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Confronted by, by the leaders of His, of the, the religious and the governmental leaders of His day, accused of treason. Like, that is so crazy to me that I d- I don't know why I haven't meditated on it more-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... especially when I have a parable about it with the farmers-
David: The, yeah
Seth: ... right?
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Where Jesus says, like, "I sent you-"
David: Right, the tenants of the vineyard.
Seth: "... the tenants of the vineyard."
David: Yeah.
Seth: "I sent the tenants of the vineyard, servant after servant after servant, to collect the rent-
David: And then-
Seth: ... to call to a, make accounts."
David: "Finally, I sent my son."
Seth: I was like, oh yeah-
David: That's-
Seth: ... that's interesting.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That's kind of a one-off. But no, it's like, Jesus could primarily be defined as a prophet.
David: A prophet of God, the final-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... yeah, prophet of God.
Seth: Which is what Hebrews says. Anyway, f-
David: Yeah, anyway.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yeah. It's good. Uh, and it's like, just as Amos was like, "I'm a fig farmer from nowhere, you know? I'm not here because of my pedigree."
Seth: "Can anything good come from Nazareth?" [laughs]
David: It's like, yeah, "Can anything good come from Nazareth?" You know, it's like, yeah, Jesus, He was a carpenter's son-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... you know, or a mason worker's son if, depending on the translation.
Seth: So, and maybe just to land this plane on why is it good news that Jesus is a prophet.
David: Mm.
Seth: I think it makes sense that Jesus is a perfect sacrifice. He's a high priest that lives forever.
David: Yeah.
Seth: He is, like, those, I get those and how those turn into good news. Hebrews 1 says, like, we have, but God has spoken to us in these last days through His Son.
David: Yep.
Seth: So there's a sense that the, the words of the prophet Jesus are more final and more lasting or more concrete than the words-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... of Amos and the ones beforehand.
David: Yeah, it's also really good news that Jesus is a prophet because we need to know what God is doing.
Seth: Mm.
David: Like, we need to know what God is doing.
Seth: Right.
David: Like, like, as he's, like, like Amos says in chapter 3, "God doesn't do anything without revealing it through his prophets."
Seth: Yep.
David: And so as Jesus as the final prophet, we finally know exactly what God is up to.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And what, what is God up to? Judgment is still coming against sin.But God is bringing the whole world to himself through the sacrifice of his Son. How would we know any of that was happening-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... unless Jesus was the final prophet calling out sin and hypocrisy, calling out injustice, but at the same time, bringing good news to the poor and announcing forgiveness of sins through his death? Like, and we know that he can be counted on, not because of where he came from-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... or, you know, anything like that-
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... but because he was a prophet, because-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... he spoke the words of God.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And, like, what God says comes true. It goes back to those hyperbolic, or not hyperbolic, hypothetical questions-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that w- that were asked back in chapter three, where it's like, you know, is the pope's hat white? Yes.
Seth: Yes. [laughs]
David: You know? [laughs] It's like, when Jesus... Is Jesus a prophet who speaks the very words of God? Yes. It's like you can, you can trust that what Jesus says and does are true because he is the prophet of God who has these, this long lineage of prophets behind him, who what they've said have happened.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: So I think, like, that's one reason why it's good news, is 'cause we need-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... to know what God's up to.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And he's shown us in these last days through his Son, as Hebrews 1 says.
Seth: And the day of the Lord is, like, not a theoretical day in the future.
David: Right.
Seth: It is him... Like, Jesus, the final prophet, brings the day of the Lord, is himself the day of the Lord.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So the day of the Lord that the prophets look to as a day of justice against oppressors, but mercy towards the poor, actually happens in Jesus, and that's significant as well.
David: Yeah. And I think we can also see ourselves here in, uh, Amaziah, where it's like, I feel like it's very easy for, um, us, our churches, like, religious institutions to want to marginalize voices like Amos, you know?
Seth: Yeah.
David: Where it's just like, "Hey, man, you're really causing a ruckus."
Seth: [laughs]
David: "Why don't you go out into the wilderness and, and spit that jazz?"
Seth: You can sp- you can spit... You can talk like that over there, but not here, I guess.
David: Yeah, like, "Why don't you, why don't you go to that radical church downtown, but, you know, here in the suburbs, why don't you bottle that noise up?"
Seth: Yeah.
David: You know? [laughs] And it's like, we, like, let, be careful who you silence.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: You know? Like, maybe, like, that, you know, crazy friend of yours-
Seth: M- might know something that we don't
David: ... might know something. [laughs]
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yeah, anyway.
Seth: Yeah. Um, so yeah. So that's... And it's a, it's a strange little insertion in the middle of his woes, but I think it's significant for all the reasons we just laid out.
David: Okay.
Seth: So in chapter 8, he picks back up on the visions that God is giving him, and this time it's a basket of summer fruit.
David: Mm, delicious, right? It's all... This, this is gonna be a good one.
Seth: Right. Fripe summer fruit.
David: [laughs]
Seth: It's great tasting. Uh, but the idea is that Israel's oppression has grown to the point that it is ripe for eating.
David: Oh, no.
Seth: So, [laughs] like, oh, it's your basket of summer fruit. That means it's time to be devoured.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That's-
David: It's like all this time... And again, this goes back to God's patience.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Right? How we talked about in the last podcast that, like, he sends warnings as-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... grace. Uh, even now we've talked about how, uh, he said, "Oh, I'm gonna send locusts. No, I'll relent. I'm gonna send fire. No, I'll relent." He's like, "Guys, the fruit has been on the tree-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and it's been ripening."
Seth: Yeah.
David: You know, I sent, like we talked about last podcast, like, "I sent rain on one city, but not the, the other, and you did not return to me. The fruit is ripening on the tree."
Seth: Mm.
David: And he's like, "Again and again-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... I've been patiently waiting like a t- like a, like an apple tree farmer."
Seth: Yeah.
David: "And I've been watching the fruit bud, and it's been growing, and now the apples are ready to pick."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And what does that mean? It means your judgment has come.
Seth: Yeah. "The end has come upon my people, Israel. I will never again pass by them." That same language.
David: Yeah.
Seth: "I won't pass by you in gracious mercy to reveal myself to you. I won't pass by you to save you from death."
David: Mm.
Seth: "The songs of the temple shall become wailings in that day," declares the Lord. And here's the songs they'll sing in the temple on that day. So many dead bodies, they're thrown everywhere. Silence.
David: Mm.
Seth: That's-
David: That's the song.
Seth: That's the song.
David: Oof. Is, is it... I can't remember where it is, but he... Uh, oh, yeah, here. I think it's down here. He talks about, like, "You'll have to get those who are very skilled at lamenting-
Seth: [laughs]
David: ... and have them come and write their laments." I'm like, "Well, so the Book of Lamentations was prophesied, apparently." [laughs]
Seth: Oh, yeah. That's right.
David: It's like, it's gonna be so bad you're gonna have to get your best lamenters to be able to capture how terrible everything is.
Seth: Yeah.
David: You know? Like-
Seth: It's-
David: ... Ken Burns is gonna have to come do the documentary on how terrible this is.
Seth: Yeah. I think this is really the, the low point.
David: Yes.
Seth: There's gonna be another prophes- there's gonna be another vision that's not, like, a metaphor in a second, and it's gonna be the, the literal destruction of Israel's, um, idols.
David: Mm.
Seth: Uh, but for now, this is some of the darkest things that are said in the Book of Amos.
David: So you mentioned that the pass by you thing is a callback to the Exodus story.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And then I'm also seeing words like Nile and Egypt-
Seth: Mm
David: ... in verse eight.
Seth: Yep.
David: Is there, like, Exodus stuff-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... happening in chapter 8? What's going on?
Seth: Yeah, there is. There's a- another short, like, condemnation against Israel in verses four through seven, and then he says this in verse eight: "Shall not the land tremble on this account of your injustice towards the poor and everyone mourn who dwell in it, and all of it rise like the Nile and be tossed about and sink again like the Nile of Egypt?" I think the idea here is, uh, the Nile would flood, and then it would recede, and that's why that whole area was so fertile.
David: Right.
Seth: Um, don't you know that I, like the Nile, am going to flood over you-
David: Mm
Seth: ... because of your injustice? Um, and again, like, we're just making little threads back to the Exodus story, but, "On that day," declares the Lord, "I will make the sun go down at noon." What's... This is the plague of darkness.
David: Right.
Seth: "And darken the earth in broad daylight. I'm gonna turn your feasts into mourning, your songs into lamentation, and I will make it like the mourning for an only son and the end of the day like a bitter day."
David: Oh, that's the death of your only son.
Seth: The death of the only son.
David: Or the firstborn.
Seth: The, the firstborn son.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, it's a callback to Egypt, and this passing over language is like, "I'm not gonna pass by you anymore. I'm not gonna pass over you anymore."
David: Yeah.
Seth: "I'm not gonna reveal myself to you anymore, e- either protection or in revelation." Like, our relationship is done.
David: Right, because doesn't he talk about there's a famine coming?
Seth: And there's a famine coming, and the most significant aspect, it's not gonna be of food or water, it's gonna be a desert of divine silence.
David: God's not gonna talk anymore.
Seth: I'm not gonna talk to you anymore.
David: You, you... I mean, we talked about, like, why is having a prophet such good news?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: It's 'cause we know what God's up to.
Seth: Yeah.
David: We know what God is saying.
Seth: Yeah.
David: This is why the Bible's such good news-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... 'cause we know what God says, and we know what God's been up to.
Seth: Yeah.
David: But without prophets-Divine silence is the worst kind of famine you could ever go through.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And it says that in that time, Israel is essentially gonna enter into a new wilderness period.
David: Mm.
Seth: They shall wander from sea to sea and from north to east, and they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, but they will not find it. Um, the, the coming judgment is going to be bad as their fish hooks get put through their jaws but almost more ominously, God will refuse to speak to them. There will be a famine of God's voice.
David: Mm.
Seth: And that's kind of the death knell for God's people who are supposed to be God's people-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... who listen, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." People defined by listening to the voice of God will no longer hear it anymore. It's a severing of their identity as God's people.
David: Wow. Yeah. Oh, and all of this is happening because, like, verse four through eight.
Seth: Mm-hmm. Yep.
David: It's because butchers are putting their finger on the scale. You know, it's like, uh-
Seth: Deal deceitfully with false balances.
David: Right. It's like whenever you are going to the market to sell your wheat, you actually put a little bit of the chaff, the unedible part-
Seth: Mm
David: ... into it to, like, throw off the, you know, the, the, the balance and make more money for yourself.
Seth: Or it's the unequal weights that Jesus was throwing over in the temple.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Um, they were... They said it was two kilos, but it's actually, you know, 2.2 kilos on their official mea- measurement, you know. Yeah, he hates this type of injustice, and he's coming, and he'll end his relationship with Israel over it.
David: Mm. Yeah.
Seth: The, th- he will undo Egypt. He will... It'll be as if he never rescued them from Egypt.
David: Oh, okay. That's interesting.
Seth: Right.
David: So he's like the whole basis of their covenant, which we talked about in the last podcast-
Seth: Mm
David: ... um, was God chose them-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and rescued them out of Egypt, and he's saying like, "Not only am I going to abandon you and stop talking to you, I'm actually gonna reverse everything so much so, so that it's like you had never escaped from Egypt in the first place."
Seth: Yep.
David: Wow.
Seth: Yep, and then, uh, this goes into the next vision that Amos has.
David: Okay.
Seth: "I saw the Lord standing beside the altar," presumably the altar at Gi- Gilgal-
David: Mm
Seth: ... or Bethel, "and I will strike the capitals until the thresholds shake and shatter them on the heads of all the people. On those who are left of them, I will kill with the sword. Not one of them shall flee away. Not one of them shall escape." I think this was referring to is the Assyrian army coming in-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... destroying their temples, and taking away the people. The, he's seeing a vision of what will happen when Assyria comes.
David: Yeah, and he talks about how there, there'll be nowhere for them to hide. Even if they, like, like, took their own life or-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... dug, like, went down to Sheol, you know-
Seth: Yep
David: ... dug their own grave, I would pull them up out of that grave to judge them. Even if they went to the top of, uh, of a mountain, even some mountain, like religious mountain that's protected by their gods like Mount Carmel, I will come and take them down from there.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So there's nowhere that they can hide.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Uh, I mean, this is extremely intense language.
Seth: And then the, probably the most intense is at verse four.
David: Mm.
Seth: Um, "And I will fix my eyes upon them for evil and not for good."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Um, it's... I mean, it's like can God even do that? Can God fix his eyes on evil at someone? Like, that's the first question I had when I read this. But I think what you're... That word evil is actually the word ra.
David: Mm.
Seth: And that word good is actually the word tov.
David: Oh, so this is, like, the same words of the knowledge of g- the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Seth: Yeah. So when Adam and Eve ate from the tree of tov and ra-
David: Mm
Seth: ... ra and tov, the world uncreated itself from God's-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... good design. And so now that Israel has again eaten from the tree of tov and ra-
David: Which we talked about last podcast
Seth: ... which we talked about last podcast, because they've rejected God's commands, just like Eve rejected God's commands, he's going to fix upon them tov and ra.
David: Mm.
Seth: He's gonna give them the ra they have chose, the evil they have chosen.
David: Right.
Seth: He's gonna uncreate Israel just like he kicked... He's gonna exile Israel-
David: Right
Seth: ... from their land just like he exiled Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden.
David: Yes.
Seth: He's gonna give them the choice that they've made. Um, and I think that's a little more helpful than the word evil.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Um, just th- that, those categories because, like, God can't do evil-
David: No
Seth: ... in that sense, but he can give us ra.
David: Right.
Seth: The, the, the just punishment-
David: Right. He can-
Seth: ... for rejecting his commands.
David: Yeah. He can let us experience the evil we've wrought on the world.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Right?
Seth: Yes.
David: Like, the nuclear weapons we build, he can let us experience the radioactive fallout.
Seth: Yes. He can give us... He can kick us out of the land because the land is meant to be with him, and when we choose not to listen to him-
David: Mm
Seth: ... when we choose ra, when we choose the voice of ra, we reject the God of tov.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um, uh, we reject the God of good, and we choose to do the w- words of evil.
David: Right.
Seth: So that's what's happening. God is uncreating his covenant with Israel.
David: Mm.
Seth: And he's uncreating the very world that he made for Israel.
David: Mm.
Seth: That's kinda what's happening.
David: Wow. Okay. So then how does Jesus [laughs] then bring us back out of Egypt-
Seth: Um-
David: ... and into, like, the land again, into, like, communion-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... with him again? Where, like, where he will pass by us again.
Seth: Well, verse 11 of chapter 9.
David: Okay.
Seth: "In that day," in the day when the world has been uncreated, and you're, have been in Assyria for so long.
David: Mm.
Seth: "In that day, I will raise up the booth of David that has fallen. I will repair its breaches and raise it up, raise up its ruins and rebuild it as in the days of old."
David: Mm.
Seth: So I'm gonna do all this.
David: Right.
Seth: This is gonna happen. You're gonna get carried away into Syria. I'm gonna uncreate the people of God. I'm gonna uncreate-... guard of Eden. I'm gonna undo the covenant but when I undo the covenant, I'm gonna rebuild it again.
David: Right.
Seth: I'm gonna raise up the booth of David, the house of David.
David: Right.
Seth: That-
David: So that's a callback to 2 Samuel 7.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Right? And the promise God made to King David that one of his descendants would sit on his throne forever-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and would rule his kingdom with peace and equity-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and would bring a time of peace on every side.
Seth: Yep.
David: And that has not happened yet in Israel.
Seth: Nope.
David: And so that promise is still left dangling-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and God says, "How am I going to rebuild my kingdom on Earth after it's been so desolated by the hooks of the Assyrian army? I'm going to remember this covenant I made with David-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and I'm going to put one of David's descendants back on the throne, and he will bring you out of Egypt."
Seth: Yep.
David: "He will bring you back into a place where I can pass by you again."
Seth: And he's gonna amplify what Israel had previously, verse 12-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... so that they m- possess the remnant of Edom and all the nations who are called by my name, declares the Lord.
David: Wow.
Seth: Who does this.
David: So, so not only is he picking up on the promise made to David, now he's picking up on the promise made to Abraham-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... in Genesis 12 that all nations will be blessed by-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... this chosen people of God, um, which they've abandoned this calling in, in their lack of covenant keeping.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So God is going to raise up a king from the line of David who will, uh, bring Israel out of Egypt, but not only Israel, he's gonna bring all nations who are called-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and chosen by God, um, out of their different corners of the earth-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and form some new multi-ethnic kingdom ruled by the final Davidic king.
Seth: Yes.
David: I don't know who we're talking about here.
Seth: I don't, yeah, either.
David: [laughs]
Seth: He goes on to say, "Behold, the days are coming when the plowman shall overtake the reaper-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and the treader of grapes him who sows the seed."
David: I love that.
Seth: The harvest will outpace the sowing every season.
David: Yes.
Seth: The mountains will drip sweet wine-
David: Yeah, yeah
Seth: ... the hills shall flow with it.
David: Th- that metaphor, it's like there will be so much harvest that you are s- like you're still gathering up the, the harvest-
Seth: The previous year's harvest [laughs]
David: ... the previous year's harvest when it's time to plant the next year's harvest.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, it's just like-
Seth: It's-
David: ... there's, there's gonna be more than you need.
Seth: Yes.
David: Yeah. I was, like, trying to think of a modern metaphor for that when I was listening to this, and I was like, it's like, uh, be- like, when you've taken the first bite of your steak dinner.
Seth: Mm.
David: Behold, another steak has come.
Seth: [laughs]
David: [laughs] It's like...
Seth: It... I feel like agricultural imagery just is better-
David: It's so good
Seth: ... than most modern imagery. It's like I, I don't wa- like, the next updated iPhone, getting it-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... when I've just had my old iPhone for a week-
David: It doesn't do it
Seth: ... doesn't do it for me.
David: Yes.
Seth: But the idea of the mountains dripping wine-
David: That works
Seth: ... that works.
David: [laughs]
Seth: Like, I'm excited for this day.
David: That metaphor hits differently.
Seth: Um, and then he also reverses the curse in verse 14. "I will re- restore-
David: Mm
Seth: ... the fortunes of my people, Israel. I'll rebuild the ruined cities, and they'll inhabit them after they did not build them themselves. They shall plant vineyards and drink their wines."
David: That's right.
Seth: "They shall make gardens and eat their fruit, and I will plant them on their land. And they shall never again be uprooted out of the land which I will give them-"
David: Okay
Seth: ... says, the Lord your God."
David: Okay. So to recap-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... this promise, God is going to remember his covenant that he made with David, and he's going to put David's descendant back on Israel's throne-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... so that he'll bring them out of Egypt again, but he'll, it'll be all nations called by his name that he brings to himself so that the promise to Abraham will be completed-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and all nations will be blessed by this Davidic king. But not only will they be with him, they'll live in this new recreated Eden where they will have more than enough. They'll live with God forever-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and there will be mountain wine. [laughs]
Seth: And just like the Bible begins with God said, "Let there be light," out of the land, I will give you, says, the Lord your God.
David: Ah.
Seth: The last words of Amos are, and God said-
David: Oh my gosh
Seth: ... "I will restore everything that you've lost."
David: Wow.
Seth: So that's the good news of-
David: Yes
Seth: ... the Book of Amos. And as we've hinted at [laughs]-
David: It's, uh-
Seth: ... it's about Jesus
David: ... it's about Jesus.
Seth: [laughs]
David: Yeah, Jesus is the son of David-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... um, who restores the house of David-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... who sits as true king-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... not through political power, right, or military might-
Seth: Yep
David: ... or, like, building idols that attract a wide swath of voters, [laughs] right?
Seth: Yep.
David: Like, he's the true king who serves humbly and lowly. He comes as, um, the, like, as a, as, like, the physical incarnation of the character of God who cares for the poor that we've seen in Amos. He-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... cares for the needy. Like, he loves the marginalized, and he heals the afflicted. He pronounces good news to the poor, um, and he calls all nations to himself.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Right?
Seth: And then he, when he comes again, he will bring this new Eden-
David: Yes
Seth: ... where the world brings forth its fruit.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And we won't be able to start, stop harvesting to plant more seeds.
David: Yeah.
Seth: The mountains will drip with wine. The world will rebe, be recreated, and we will live in a land with God forever.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um, and that's the story of the whole Bible.
David: Yeah. And I'm like, that is such good news for, I think, for me, and I'm sure for a lot of you listening, where it's like y- you read Amos honestly, and you notice several things about the world around you. You notice, one, that you are probably complicit in [clears throat] a lot of injustice. Like, you drive past panhandlers, you know-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... more often than not.
Seth: And we have good reasons to, right?
David: I don't know.
Seth: Right.
David: [laughs]
Seth: Well, that's, that's why I say in my head-
David: Right, exactly. Yeah
Seth: ... when I do it, I'm like, "Oh, I've got good reasons."
David: I've got an excuse.
Seth: "I'll probably waste it."
David: Right.
Seth: Whatever.
David: And it's like, it's like, yeah, you could talk to them. You could do something. You know, it's like, okay, you buy sweatshop, you buy clothing made from sweatshops. Your tax money goes to buy nuclear weaponry, weapons of mass destruction. [laughs] And it's like, ugh, [laughs] there's so much injustice. And, like, I w- and, like, uh, you know, being raised as a white man in America, like, I was trained, you know, like-Sub- unconsciously from my parents who went to-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... segregated schools in the South.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like like without even knowing it-
Seth: Right
David: ... to distrust Black people.
Seth: Yeah.
David: You know, and it's like I'm having to unlearn all that. You know? I'm having to like notice my white privilege.
Seth: Yeah.
David: You know? And like thi- things that like, man, I have white privilege a- and I have male privilege, and I have American privilege. And like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... oh, all these things that I was blind to different ways I was being unjust through-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... all those blinders. And it's like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... okay, I need to seek out ra- racial reconciliation. I need to take the blinders of my white privilege off. Like-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... I need to, uh, make myself not complicit in the systems of oppression that my country perpetrates. [laughs]
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, I just look around at my life and my world, and I'm just like, there's so much injustice. So much is wrong. And then there's so much injustice that I don't touch in this world, right? That I'm not complicit in. Boko Haram.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: Like, there's just so much evil. North Korea.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: You know? Like, the oppression of the underground church in China. Like, there's just so much evil in the world, so much injustice in the world, and I'm just like, I want it to stop.
Seth: Yeah.
David: I don't wanna be part of it anymore, you know? [laughs]
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And I don't want it to exist anymore.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And the good news of the final king, uh, i- in David's line who comes is that he will put an end to it.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And, like, he will be the king who rules with equity, who-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... who, who silences injustice and who finally brings peace on all sides.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And, like, where there will be not one hint of injustice. The plumb line will fall over the Kingdom of God, and it will be found to be perfectly straight on every corner of the earth.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And I want that day.
Seth: Yeah. It would be... It'll be a great day.
David: It will be a great day. Uh-
Seth: Uh, and I think there's two ways to see this. I, I think, one, it should cause people in power, people in leadership, people with positions of authority like the one people that Amos is speaking to to reconsider themselves-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... which is what you've been talking about.
David: Right.
Seth: But it's also just good news for... It's like good news, period, for people that are poor.
David: Yes.
Seth: It's good news, period, for people that are oppressed.
David: Right.
Seth: It's like there's a day coming when... It's not, it's not that I'll finally be free from my complicity.
David: Right.
Seth: That's great news.
David: Yes.
Seth: Good. I'm, I will be happy to be free from my involvement in, in injustice.
David: Right.
Seth: But maybe even more importantly, justice will come.
David: Yes.
Seth: Like, there will be no more poverty.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: There will be no more-
David: Food stamps.
Seth: Food [laughs] yes.
David: Yes.
Seth: Like, there will be no more oppression. There will be no more slavery. There'll be no more human trafficking.
David: Right. Like, like you... Like, if you're-
Seth: There will be no more war.
David: Right. If you're Black in America and every time you walk out of your house you have to face the reality of how people are seeing you and try to modify your behavior so you're not offensive or so you don't get pulled over or, like, you know, like, my s-
Seth: But-
David: I have... My sister is, is Black.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And she talks about that all the time living here in Oklahoma. She's like, "Every time I leave the house, I have to remember I'm a Black woman."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: "And that sucks."
Seth: Yeah.
David: And she's like... And like, like, that will be gone. Racism will be gone.
Seth: Yeah.
David: You know? And it's like that's good news, like, that for, for you i- if you're oppressed, marginalized, looked down on, crushed underfoot, deeply in debt-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... uh, like, because of your station in life, never given an opportunity to have a good job.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, whatever-
Seth: Or if you're a convict.
David: Yeah. Yes, if you're a convict.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yes.
Seth: Like, you're free.
David: Yeah, Jesus came to set the prisoners free.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Which I always thought was ama- like, really funny-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... where it's like that really violates our sense of justice, where it's like-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... no, prisoners are there for-
Seth: They deserve it
David: ... they deserve it.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: It's like Jesus is like, "I'm gonna go to the penitentiary and unlock the jail cells" and you're like-
Seth: Wait, what?
David: "Wait, what? You're doing what?" Yes.
Seth: Yeah.
David: That is what Jesus is doing.
Seth: And I think... I was reading something about the way that even people who have served their time basically have a really difficult time entering back into society-
David: Yes
Seth: ... and are imprisoned through other, other means. I think 27% of ex-convicts can get a job.
David: Insanely.
Seth: It's like, it's like they've already paid their time, but-
David: It's a lifelong sentence
Seth: ... oh, but it's a li- lifelong sentence in some ways, but there's freedom for you in the new kingdom.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That won't be the case anymore.
David: Yeah.
Seth: You will have a job that will be more abundant than the effort you put into it.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And that will be true forever.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That's the kingdom that's coming.
David: Which is very good news.
Seth: Um.
David: Oh, and we know that because Jesus, the final prophet, told us that's what God's up to.
Seth: Yeah.
David: [laughs] You know. Anyway.
Seth: There's-
David: Okay
Seth: ... one more-
David: Yeah. There's no longer a famine of God's Word is what I'm getting at there.
Seth: Yes, that's right.
David: Is that like-
Seth: Yes. There's no... God spe-
David: God has spoken-
Seth: God-
David: ... in these last days through His Son-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and He has said that His kingdom is here.
Seth: There's one more vein of this that I wanna mention-
David: Okay
Seth: ... before we go, jump off air. Um, it's, uh, Acts 15 quotes this prophecy.
David: Okay, so the Jerusalem Council, uh, the, the, uh, early church has been quarreling-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... over how to include Gentiles into this very Jewish faith-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... especially around the idea of circumcision-
Seth: Right
David: ... because they're wondering should male Gentiles who join the Israelite community, of which it was always necessary to be circumcised to be included in-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... should they now get circumcised post-hoc-
Seth: Yes
David: ... when they become Christians because they're becoming Israelites, too.
Seth: Right.
David: So they are now Abraham's descendants.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: So should they be circumcised? So how is, how does this fit into Amos exactly? [laughs]
Seth: Well, [laughs] because they may possess the remnant of Edom.
David: Mm.
Seth: So Edom was Israel's brother, Jacob's brother.
David: Esau.
Seth: He's Jacob's brother, who was later named Israel-
David: Oh
Seth: ... is the brother of Esau, who was later named Edom.
David: Right. We talked about this in our Obadiah podcast.
Seth: Yes. And he's saying, "You'll, you and your brother will be reconciled one day."
David: Mm.
Seth: And when Acts quotes this verse, it replaces the word Edom with-Gentiles.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: It reads it as all other people besides the chosen people of Israel, which is a legitimate way to read this text.
David: Yeah, because the word Edom is very close to the word Adam-
Seth: Yes
David: ... which means mankind.
Seth: Mankind.
David: Humans, people.
Seth: So both theologically and covenantally, and even linguistically-
David: Right
Seth: ... they're super close like, closely linked. And what they actually changed the way that the law was interpreted-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... for this new people of God to enter into the kingdom. And I mean, they come closer... Anyway, the point is-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... it even changes the way that churches were structured in, uh, in ear- the early church, and probably should do the same today. Like-
David: That's right
Seth: ... there's, um, this is an important passage in the, the history of redemption.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And it gets picked up back, back up again in the book of Acts. So I just wanna throw that in there.
David: Yeah. No, I mean, Gentile inclusion is part of the good news-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... of the book of Amos. I mean, and you can think about it. Go back to our last podcast if you missed it, where, um, Amos paints this picture, um, about Israel, who was supposed to be a light to the Gentiles-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... the light to the nations, and as the nations gathered around them and looked into Israel, they were supposed to see that Israel was so different and so good that they would be changed. And bit by bit-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... Israel would expand, the light would get brighter, and the nations would come to the light-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and the world would look like the peaceable kingdom of God. But instead, Amos says the nations have gathered around, and these are wicked nations.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And they're looking at Israel and being like, "Israel's worse than we are. Israel's really, really bad." And so God is saying that when the, the King of David comes, when the Abrahamic line is finally fulfilled, and Jesus comes and dies on the cross and gives us His Spirit like living water in us to help us change the world around us, what happens? The Gentiles once again come around.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: The nations come around, see Jesus in us, experience the Holy Spirit in us, and they are changed, and they are included, and there is reconciliation across, uh, national and ethic, a- a- and ethnic lines-
Seth: Ethnic
David: ... like, as the kingdom of God breaks out around the world.
Seth: And the sign of that inclusion isn't circumcision.
David: No.
Seth: It's not changing something outwardly.
David: It's the, the, the justice-bringing flow of the water of the Holy Spirit moving out from person to person as we love God and love neighbor around the world.
Seth: That's it.
David: That's Amos.
Seth: That's the Book of Amos.
David: Well, that's a good book.
Seth: Yeah.
David: That's awesome. Well, guys, that was really fun. Thank you for, uh, watching the bodies hit the floor with us [laughs] here.
Seth: [laughs]
David: And, uh-
Seth: Yeah, made it through the dark part of Amos. It will be in f- the letters of John next.
David: [gasps] Letters of John.
Seth: So-
David: Is this our first epistles?
Seth: It'll be our first epistle and our first time to go, like, chapter by chapter through a New Testament book.
David: Oh.
Seth: We've done some introductions on New Testament books so far.
David: That's right.
Seth: But this will be our first time to slowly go through something in the New Testament.
David: Man.
Seth: Which is-
David: Get excited, everybody.
Seth: I know.
David: Okay.
Seth: And John, first, second, third John. It's awesome.
David: Awesome.
Seth: It's about the Antichrist.
David: Oh. [laughs]
Seth: It's... [laughs]
David: Oh, no.
Seth: It's gonna be great. [laughs]
David: [laughs] God is love.
Seth: God is love. That one's in there.
David: That's a famous one. [laughs]
Seth: [laughs]
David: Anyway, guys, thank you so much for joining us, and we will see you next week.
Outro: [upbeat music] Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel creates short films, devotionals, and podcasts like this one. Everything we make is free because of generous supporters like you. To see our resources, visit spokengospel.com or subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. See you next week. [upbeat music]