David: [upbeat music] God wants to center his people around his forgiving heart.
Seth: That's right. That's exactly right.
David: Right? And the way he accomplishes forgiveness is through self-substitution.
Seth: That's right.
David: And it's like, that's what he does through Jesus [chuckles] is-
Seth: That's right.
David: He's like, "Can I show you, my people, how much I wanna forgive you, how much I love you?"
Seth: Yeah.
David: "I'm going to come and sacrifice myself."
Intro: [upbeat music] Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a ministry that's dedicated to speaking the gospel out of every corner of scripture. In Luke 24, Jesus told his disciples that every part of the Bible is about him. In each episode, hosts David and Seth work through a passage of scripture to see how it's all about Jesus and his good news. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]
David: Well, welcome everyone, to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. We are continuing our look at the Book of Chronicles today. We did kind of an overview on the last episode, and now we're gonna jump into, I think, David's rise up to-
Seth: Uh, Solomon's reign
David: ... Solomon's reign.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay, Seth-
Seth: That's right
David: ... like, how are you feeling about this part of the Book of Chronicles?
Seth: Uh, great! [laughing]
David: [laughing] Great.
Seth: Great! It's the best part of the story. Uh... [chuckles]
David: Oh, I mean, yes.
Seth: Yeah.
David: It is definitely, categorically, it's the best-
Seth: It's the best part of the story
David: ... from a, from a f- from a feels standpoint.
Seth: From a feels, yeah.
David: It's a happy-
Seth: It's like all up and to the right-
David: A happy part. Yeah
Seth: ... uh, all the way till Solomon. Uh-
David: This is the, this is the part of Chronicles that you want your stock portfolio to look like.
Seth: Yeah, up until... [chuckles]
David: That's right.
Seth: That's right.
David: That's right.
Seth: I have so many stocks. [chuckles]
David: I know so much about that. [laughing]
Seth: I have so many stocks.
David: I don't know anything about that.
Seth: [inhales]
David: But, um-
Seth: Uh-
David: ... okay, last episode we talked about how the Book of Chronicles is about the need for God's king, from the line of David-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... to center Israel around God's priests-
Seth: That's right
David: ... uh, in order there, that there might be peace on every side.
Seth: That's right.
David: And the thing that was helpful about the priests was that it wasn't just priests operating in a temple, it was... We were looking past that to their two core functions-
Seth: Yes
David: ... which was communicating the words of God through prophetic singing, which pops up-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... a bunch in the book-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and offering forgiveness of sins through sacrifice.
Seth: That's right.
David: And, uh, we looked at all of this because this is speaking directly to the recipients of Chronicles.
Seth: They were rebuilding Israel-
David: Yes
Seth: ... after the exile.
David: Right.
Seth: And they're looking to their past for lessons about how to build their country in the future.
David: Right, because they might have been doubting the legitimacy of the line of David and the need for the temple.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so this book is reinforcing those things.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay, and we saw how Jesus was the new king from the line of David, who makes us a kingdom of priests, bringing peace on every side throughout all the world.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Okay.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Is that a good summation of where we've been?
Seth: I think you, I think you nailed it.
David: Besides the awesome-
Seth: I think you nailed it
David: ... chiasm genealogy thing you did?
Seth: Oh, yeah.
David: If you missed that, you gotta go back.
Seth: Yeah, you should just go back anyway.
David: That was cool.
Seth: But-
David: Um, okay, but today we're moving out of chapter nine.
Seth: Into chapter 10, and this s- whole story of David rising to power.
David: Okay, what do we need to know to step into the story?
Seth: Um-
David: I mean, we, we talked a little bit about the next part of the story, right? With Saul committing suicide, isn't that right?
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: Yeah, so Saul... The... After the genealogies, and you're breathing heavy from just reading a lot of names one after the other, you're thrown into the middle of a battle in which Saul is losing to the Philistines.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: An arrow pierces him, basically fatally-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and then he starts bleeding out, and before he bleeds out, he commits suicide. And then we're told in verse 13 of chapter 10, "Saul died for his breach of faith," or his lack of faithfulness.
David: Mm.
Seth: "He broke faith with the Lord in that he did not keep the commands of the Lord, and also consulted a medium in seeking guidance." He did not seek guidance from the Lord.
David: Yep.
Seth: Therefore, he put him to death.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And so this shows us the anti-example of what Israel is not to do-
David: Right
Seth: ... as it rebuilds its kingdom. If they don't listen to God, their kingdom will self-destruct-
David: Right
Seth: ... just like Saul did.
David: Yeah, Saul did not listen to the voice of God, and so-
Seth: Right
David: ... it led to ruin.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: So, and now David's gonna rise to power, and we're gonna see throughout David's life how he responds to the voice of God, and how this builds a successful kingdom-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... for Solomon to inherit.
David: Let me ask you one question before we jump into that, because I think, like, listening to the voice of God-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... or seeking God for guidance-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... we'll probably have, like, a bunch of different versions of what that looks like in our heads.
Seth: Okay.
David: Is there any controlling image or idea we should have in our minds when we think about, what does it mean to listen to the voice of God in Chronicles? What does it mean to seek his guidance? Uh, obviously, it can mean a whole bunch of things, but what does Chronicles specifically direct our attention toward understanding that idea?
Seth: Okay, I think there's the most general way to think about it. It is obeying God's commands as recorded in the Torah.
David: Okay.
Seth: So to fail to listen to God-
David: Yep
Seth: ... is to fail to obey the commands as described in the first five books of the Bible and on.
David: Yeah, that makes sense.
Seth: So that's one way to fail to listen to God, because he spoke. He wrote those words down-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... with his finger on the Ten Commandments. The other way to fail to listen to God is to not ask what to do when it relates to actions in the kingdom.
David: Mm.
Seth: And so when you're talking about kings and kingship, you're primarily talking about how to engage in conflicts with other nations.
David: Mm.
Seth: And so most often that's warfare. And so to fail to ask God how to conduct war brings about a, a military loss.
David: Mm.
Seth: That's one way to s- to see it. So yeah, that... in that example... I, I bring up that example 'cause that's one of the most common ways kings fail to consult God.
David: Okay.
Seth: Kings are concerned with statecraft-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and so they-... frequently fail to consult God in their statecraft.
David: Mm.
Seth: They fail to consult God in military victories, and when they fail to s- consult God in military victories, what happens? They lose those military campaigns.
David: Okay, and we see that on the backside of Chronicles 2?
Seth: We see it, yeah, in chapter 14 we see it. Uh, the, the Philistines, like, make a raid in chapter 14, and then David asks, inquires-
David: Mm
Seth: ... of God.
David: Right.
Seth: Same word, "Shall I go up against the Philistines, and will you give them into my hand?"
David: Right.
Seth: And God says, "Yes, I will.
David: Okay.
Seth: "Here's how you do it."
David: Yep.
Seth: Um, and over and over again, that pattern kind of plays out.
David: Okay, and then do we see anything on the other side of the chiasm in Chronicles of kings going out for war and not asking-
Seth: That's exact- yes
David: ... and they fail?
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: Yeah, and we're gonna see a example of that in David's life in just a second as well.
David: Okay, one question then about that is, obviously, guidance, seeking God's will for how to lead the kingdom, can't just be about sh- statecraft and war. Because, you know, the idealized picture at the top of the mountain is Solomon and peace-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... where they're- you're, you're hopefully not fighting wars during peacetime.
Seth: That's right.
David: So is there an ideal that listening to God's voice is leading towards? And then once you've reached that ideal, does the guidance stop being necessary? How does Solomon fit the paradigm, is my question.
Seth: Ah, uh, how does he listen to God's voice?
David: 'Cause he doesn't go out for war, you said last episode.
Seth: That's right, yeah. He, uh, listens to God's voice differently.
David: Okay.
Seth: And it's in the very first chapter that we're introduced to him, in second Chronicles, chapter one. He asks God for wisdom.
David: Right.
Seth: That is God's guidance, right?
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, the first thing he does in his reign, he is- he asks God, he inquires of God-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... how to lead a nation. That's what he asks for.
David: Yeah.
Seth: He's like, "I don't- I'm too young, I'm too inexperienced-
David: Right
Seth: ... to know how to lead a country that my father prepared for me, so give me guidance to lead these people well."
David: Mm.
Seth: He's a- he's inquiring of God, and then God gives him the information and the wisdom and the discernment needed to be a good judge, to be a good philosopher, to be a good teacher-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... for a nation in peacetime.
David: And then he doesn't go out to war.
Seth: And he doesn't go out to war. So-
David: Yeah, it's interesting-
Seth: Right
David: ... 'cause it's like God clearly doesn't say to him, "Go, well, keep, keep conquering."
Seth: Right, so you're, you're-
David: "Keep up your military imperialism."
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: Right.
Seth: So, like, guidance doesn't have to be directly tied to military-
David: Right
Seth: ... but I think maybe the, the stronger thing to say is, in the place where kings fail-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... to ask God for guidance is the place in which they will experience defeat.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And so that's-
David: Regardless of what battlefield-
Seth: What battle-
David: ... hypothetical
Seth: ... battlefield that-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... yeah, that is. But primarily, in um, in- and Solomon's kind of in a privileged position.
David: Right.
Seth: His father's the one who conquered them-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and these were sanctioned by God, these victories were sanctioned. G- God gave him the spirit to do so-
David: Right
Seth: ... and he lives in a time of peace.
David: Yep.
Seth: Well, that peace is not necessarily guaranteed through all Solomon's reign.
David: Mm.
Seth: But the fact that there is peace is significant, because it points towards the type of kingdom God expects for his kings.
David: Okay.
Seth: Kingdo- the world bows-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... not in warfare, but-
David: Okay
Seth: ... in deference to the wisdom of God.
David: So the reason that s- that Saul failed in the opening story-
Seth: Mm
David: ... of the book is because he failed to seek God's guidance?
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: That's right.
David: And now the opposite, we're gonna see, is David and how he carries out his rise to power.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: So-
David: Well, I, I'm on, I'm on, I'm on
Seth: ... so the first king of Israel fails to listen to God's guidance. He's dealt with in, like, 12 verses, 13 verses.
David: Okay.
Seth: He's out of the picture.
David: Got it. [chuckles]
Seth: And David comes on the scene, and the first thing that happened with David is that he's anointed, and then he takes the capital city of Jerusalem. So up until this time, Israel had been a divided nation. It had been a scattered group of tribes-
David: Mm
Seth: ... in a general area. They had never had real centralized leadership before.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: They had started to ask for a king. They started to ask for centralized leadership in Saul, but Saul was unable to provide it. He was unable to unite all Israel.
David: And this is because you had the land allotments, and Joshua, and people-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... every tribe had their own area, and they were kind of governed by judges for a period.
Seth: Yep.
David: And those were localized judges, not national judges, and they're like-
Seth: That's right
David: ... "We wanna be like the other nations. Give us a king."
Seth: Centralize all that, yes.
David: Okay, great.
Seth: And so Saul failed to centralize. He failed to-
David: Mm
Seth: ... unite all Israel, but David, as soon as he's anointed, all of Israel comes to him and basically throws their flags under his leadership and says-
David: Wow
Seth: ... "We will follow you, whatever you w- in whatever exploits you do."
David: Mm.
Seth: And the first thing he does is he establishes a capital for a new nation.
David: Mm.
Seth: This is like an innovation-
David: Right
Seth: ... for Israel. Like, they've never had a capital city before-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... not like this. They now have a military center, a governmental center, and a nation for the first time.
David: Mm.
Seth: In a sense, they've never had this before. So-
David: It's Hamilton all over again.
Seth: It's Hamilton all over again. [chuckles]
David: If you ma-
Seth: Uh-
David: If you don't know what we're talking about, go back to the last episode. [chuckles]
Seth: And then the first thing we're told that after we, David establishes a capital, is he builds an army full of, like, mighty men.
David: Mm. And I don't need to have any, like, bad radar on for this happening?
Seth: Uh, no.
David: Okay.
Seth: No, it-
David: 'Cause I know other times... There, there are times that the Bible sets you up for the amassing of an army, the gathering of chariots-
Seth: That's right
David: ... as a bad thing.
Seth: Yes.
David: As like, "Oh, they're be- becoming Egypt, or they're becoming Babylon."
Seth: In I Chronicles, the mighty men-
David: Mm
Seth: ... that keep coming around David, the army that keeps coming around him, are actually from all the tribes of Israel. So all the scattered tribes are sending their best warriors-
David: Mm
Seth: ... to David, and it's a symbol that he is able to unite Israel for the first time in a way that Saul never could.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Saul failed to be the type of king who could unite Israel-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... under one national identity, following God's guidance.
David: Right.
Seth: And so as David follows God's guidance, all of Israel begins to follow him.
David: Mm.
Seth: And so this is just like a key principle of leadership. If you're a new leader in a new, uh, a new Israel rebuilding itself, it's like, how are you gonna unite all these scattered people who have a whole bunch of different opinions about how our kingdom should be run? Well, new leader, in this reconstructing Israel-
David: Mm
Seth: ... follow God's guidance. And what happened to David? The tribes came into alignment with David as he followed God's guidance.
David: I see. So the point isn't, look at the tribes, they're unifying. Unit- unity of Israel is the point. It's a fruit-... of listening to God's voice and guidance.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: That's right.
David: Under- i- it's a stamp of approval that this guy's listening to God's voice. Look, the impossible has been made possible.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Okay, cool.
Seth: That's right.
David: So he establishes a capital, garners and, and unifies all of Israel around himself-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and establishes a military of mighty men.
Seth: Yep.
David: And then what?
Seth: And then he, with his new capital in Jerusalem, surrounded by an army, wants to do the right thing-
David: Mm
Seth: ... by bringing the Ark of the Covenant into the city of David.
David: 'Cause it's been out.
Seth: In Kiriath-Jearim. It's been out in the wilderness for a while now.
David: Okay. Was it in the tabernacle at this point?
Seth: Uh, no, it's in Kiriath-Jearim-
David: Okay
Seth: ... which is separate from Gibeon, which is where the-
David: Where the tabernacle is
Seth: ... the tabernacle was.
David: Okay.
Seth: So the... Which is interesting-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... the Ark and the tabernacle were not always-
David: Interesting
Seth: ... in the same place, right?
David: Yeah.
Seth: And so when-
David: They were supposed to be, or no?
Seth: It's-
David: No?
Seth: It's... I'm not quite sure. [chuckles]
David: Okay, there was a place for it in the tabernacle.
Seth: There was a place for the tabernacle.
David: But it, but the, uh, God even commanded sometimes that it be taken out and go ahead of the, of an army here or there, so-
Seth: If you remember-
David: Okay
Seth: ... from 1 Samuel, uh, it was at, the Ark was actually stolen by the Philistines.
David: Oh, is this the-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... the rats and tumors?
Seth: The rats and tumors thing.
David: [chuckles]
Seth: It gets stolen-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... ends up getting placed there until it can be, I think, reunited with the tabernacle.
David: Okay.
Seth: So we're kind of in that space.
David: Gotcha. What does it mean for the Ark of the Covenant to not be where David's about to take it, for it not to be in the capital city?
Seth: Right.
David: Like, why is that s- why is that significant, and why go on this tumultuous sojourn to bring it back?
Seth: So, because the Ark is a symbol not only of God's presence-
David: Mm
Seth: ... but it's also the place where worship is supposed to happen.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: This is the place where priests are supposed to gather, and the priests are supposed to be singing to God and offering pr- prophecies through their songs-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... to the king and to the ruler. The Ark represents the center of God's guidance.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Uh, that's-
David: It's the footstool of his throne.
Seth: That's right. That's where the-
David: It's where he rules from.
Seth: Yeah, that's exactly right.
David: Okay.
Seth: So to have... And David understands that he's the king of the people of God, and God is the true king of this nation.
David: So it's gotta be where he is.
Seth: So the throne has to come to the capital.
David: Mm.
Seth: If God's the true king of Israel, then the throne's gotta come to the capital city.
David: Right.
Seth: Right?
David: Yes.
Seth: His throne has to come to the capital city.
David: You have to move the president to the seat of power.
Seth: That's right.
David: Like, the president lives in the White House.
Seth: Yes.
David: And since David's not gonna go out and live in a field with, uh, with the Ark, he's gonna bring the Ark to him.
Seth: That's right.
David: It's a mobile White House.
Seth: That's right.
David: [chuckles]
Seth: Uh, so he brings... That's why he's bringing it to him, and that's also where he's gonna receive direction from God.
David: Okay.
Seth: "Listen to my guidance. I'm the king of this nation. You're my prince, David."
David: Yeah.
Seth: Another way that- Another way to say it, "Now, execute my commands faithfully."
David: Yeah. I have so many questions about this.
Seth: Okay, go for it.
David: I don't know if they're helpful or-
Seth: Well, then let, let me keep continue the story.
David: Okay, okay.
Seth: So David wants to do this. He wants to bring the Ark.
David: Yep.
Seth: But there's a problem.
David: Okay, ooh, rising tension.
Seth: Rising tension. He treats the Ark like he treats his military campaigns.
David: Oh, oh, what do you mean by that?
Seth: He has been on, like, a victory march for a long time now.
David: Yeah?
Seth: He's been gathering m- men of military, um, prowess to himself.
David: Been amassing an army.
Seth: He's been gaining capital cities. He's been a- enacting victories.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And he's like, "Okay, let's get the king's throne into the temple."
David: Right.
Seth: He sends his soldiers to pick up the Ark.
David: Okay.
Seth: And if he would've read his Torah a little bit closer, he would've known that only Levites-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... are actually allowed to function around and use and carry and touch-
David: Right
Seth: ... the Ark of the Covenant.
David: Yeah, there's some prohibitory tables.
Seth: Right, and so as they're bringing this Ark to Jerusalem-
David: Mm
Seth: ... one of his men touches the Ark, and he immediately dies-
David: Right
Seth: ... because he's inappropriately approaching-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... God's throne. David has made a f- his, his first failure in his reign-
David: Mm
Seth: ... is he's inappropriately reacting and treating Go- the center of God's-
David: Right
Seth: ... power.
David: He didn't listen to God's guidance-
Seth: That's right
David: ... in the Torah.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: That's right. So that's what... He, he doesn't do it right.
David: Yeah, so he doesn't listen to God's voice-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and there's death and failure.
Seth: That's right.
David: I got it.
Seth: He so, he puts the Ark aside for a moment-
David: Yep
Seth: ... and he does what he was supposed to do the first time.
David: Talk to God?
Seth: He talks to God.
David: Okay.
Seth: He listens to the Torah, and he builds a bureaucracy of Levites-
David: Okay
Seth: ... in order for them to properly ca- take care of the Ark.
David: How does he do that?
Seth: So he goes, and he consults the records of Levites.
David: Oh.
Seth: He calls all the l- the, the Levites who are supposed to be in charge of the temple.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: He commissions them to take care of the Ark-
David: Yep
Seth: ... and he calls them to bring the Ark from its resting place into Jerusalem the right way.
David: Okay.
Seth: So he learns from his mistake.
David: Yep.
Seth: God corrects him. He asks for forgiveness.
David: Yes.
Seth: He listens to the law of the Lord.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: He sends the Levites out to bring the Ark of the Covenant into Israel, and by the end of chapter, uh, 16, the Ark is in the temple, surrounded by priestly singers, and David, he commissions, he anoints, he makes official the chief songwriter, the chief prophet-
David: Oh
Seth: ... the chief musician, Asaph.
David: Yeah. Oh, from the Psalms!
Seth: From the Psalms. [chuckles] Uh, to preside over the prophetic singers and to guide-
David: Okay
Seth: ... uh, all the musicians in Israel-
David: Yes
Seth: ... to sing, uh-
David: So that way, his failure to listen to God's voice may never happen again, hopefully.
Seth: That's exactly right.
David: He'll be surrounded by the prophetic songs of God's guidance.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay, that makes sense.
Seth: And there, we have even two psalms that were written for that occasion.
David: Oh, cool.
Seth: Uh, Psalm 95 and Psalm... Oh, 96 and 105-
David: 96 and 105
Seth: ... uh, were written for this occasion when the Ark first comes into Jerusalem.
David: Oh, that's cool.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Okay. One observation.
Seth: Okay.
David: Tell me if it's important. It's strange... Now, it's not strange in the flow of events. If I'm j- if I just have my, "Think about it chronologically. Don't worry about it" hat on-
Seth: Okay
David: ... then it's not gonna be a problem, uh, or I wouldn't notice it. But having my, like, "This history's communicating something"-
Seth: Yes
David: ... uh, it's communicating theology, I, I'm like, "Okay, this is interesting." It's interesting that the ideal-... Davidic king, David himself-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: -that people are supposed to emulate and follow, and if he gets on the throne, everything is, is good.
Seth: Yep.
David: And yet, i- his rise to power doesn't end when he solidifies the kingdoms under himself, and establishes a capital, and builds an army, and has successful military campaigns.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Something's still missing.
Seth: Yep.
David: God's throne-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... is missing.
Seth: He hasn't centralized the God's throne, his priesthood yet.
David: Right.
Seth: Right.
David: And it's like there's this, um, this longing, it just seems, that the Davidic king has for the real king-
Seth: Mm
David: ... to sit on the throne in Jerusalem.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And I'm just like, I'm w- I'm, I'm wondering there if there's, like, that messianic bridge.
Seth: Oh, even in the hope of, uh-
David: Right
Seth: ... having the Ark in, in Jerusalem-
David: Yes
Seth: ... that in and of itself-
David: Drawing out that story
Seth: ... for Jesus.
David: And it's like-
Seth: Mm
David: ... look, we are like David, searching for a king-
Seth: Mm
David: ... needing, needing to put him on the throne, but that's not the end of the story. We're gonna need-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... you know, God himself to come and take the throne.
Seth: Yeah.
David: 'Cause... And you have this, like, God-man-king hybrid thing.
Seth: Mm.
David: I'm just like, "Oh, that's interesting how that kind of plays out."
Seth: That is interesting. I haven't thought about that.
David: Anyway.
Seth: Um, let's put a pin in that and come back to that in a, in a little bit.
David: Pin.
Seth: So David brings the Ark into... He sets up a priestly pr- bureaucracy like he should have the first time. So-
David: Why do you say bureaucracy?
Seth: Um, because I don't know another way to talk about hundreds and hundreds [chuckles] of people being given specific jobs-
David: Ah
Seth: ... and hierarchical systems of who reports to, to, to who-
David: Okay
Seth: ... within a system.
David: So that's happening?
Seth: That's happening. So what David's doing is he's not just saying, "Okay, we need some priests"-
David: Right
Seth: ... "Let me grab the first 10."
David: Uh-huh.
Seth: He's saying, "No, here's 500 men who have been qualified."
David: Mm.
Seth: "Let me give them a hierarchy of who reports to who."
David: Mm.
Seth: "You guys are in charge of the music. You guys are in charge of the offerings. You guys are in charge of the singing. You guys are the ones who are gonna guard all these in case anybody tries to attack us on the road."
David: Okay.
Seth: "And let's go."
David: Okay.
Seth: So he's not just doing a couple of random actions, he's building-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... an organization.
David: Right.
Seth: Uh, a Levitical organization that can handle the institutionalization of God's presence in Jerusalem.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: He's not just doing good things-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... he's building a government.
David: Okay.
Seth: And he's building a priestly organizational bureaucracy in order to handle what will soon become thousands upon thousands of sacrifices for-
David: Right
Seth: ... millions of people to come and worship and ask for God's guidance in Jerusalem.
David: I see.
Seth: He can't just have eight guys to go and bring-
David: That's right
Seth: ... the Ark. He needs to build a system of governance-
David: Right
Seth: ... and a system of priesthood so that it can handle the sins of an entire nation.
David: Right.
Seth: Right?
David: 'Cause, yeah, 'cause... And the point there isn't, like, leadership parable.
Seth: No.
David: Make sure your systems are organized, and it's the- the point is that David is taking seriously-
Seth: Yes
David: ... the need of what the priesthood accomplishes-
Seth: That's right
David: ... which is we need, we need a group of singers doing prophecy, and they need a head singer in order to organize it all, so that it all happens.
Seth: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
David: Oh, we need to take the forgiveness of sin seriously, and so in order to do that, we have to be able to-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... facilitate forgiveness through sacrifices for a whole nation.
Seth: For a king of David to center Israel around the priesthood-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... isn't just symbolic gestures or even teaching moments.
David: Yeah.
Seth: It's actually building-
David: A real, boots on the ground-
Seth: ... an infrastructure-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... that can a- that can handle that.
David: Totally.
Seth: So that's what he's doing. That's why I say bureaucracy.
David: Yeah, no, it's really helpful. I just didn't know why that-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... why that word. That's really cool. Okay, so he has his-
Seth: Yes
David: ... priestly bureau- bureaucracy.
Seth: Bureaucracy.
David: I, I tried in that moment to think of a different word.
Seth: Uh, [chuckles]
David: Yeah, uh, doesn't-
Seth: They're, they're singing.
David: Yep.
Seth: The Ark is coming.
David: As all bureaucracies do. [laughing]
Seth: As all bu- all good bureaucrats sing. [laughing]
David: Uh, um... [chuckles]
Seth: And then David leaves them all, and you know where he goes?
David: I do not know.
Seth: He goes to Gibeon, where the tabernacle is.
David: Oh, okay. Yeah, that makes sense.
Seth: And he starts offering sacrifices, thanking God for what he's done-
David: Okay
Seth: ... in Jerusalem.
David: That is strange.
Seth: Yeah, isn't that interesting?
David: That's great. So this is one of the questions I had, that when you were like-
Seth: Okay
David: ... "Do you have any questions?" I was like, "I don't know if they're helpful."
Seth: Yes.
David: This is the question I had, is what is the tabernacle without the Ark?
Seth: Ah.
David: What is a sacrifice without the place to sprinkle it?
Seth: Right.
David: I, I, that was, that was just like-
Seth: Right
David: ... this is weird.
Seth: Yeah, well-
David: And like, are they even obeying Torah in this moment?
Seth: I think... So what happens next-
David: Okay
Seth: ... after j- he goes and offers sacrifices, is the very next thing he does, he comes back to Jerusalem, and he, um, goes to his prophet, head prophet, Nathan.
David: Okay.
Seth: He says, "I wanna build a house for God"-
David: Oh, okay
Seth: ... "in Jerusalem"-
David: So okay.
Seth: "with the Ark."
David: Yeah.
Seth: So his first instinct after bringing the Ark is, "Let's get the tabernacle here, too."
David: Man, I mean, can't you just picture that inner monologue- [chuckles]
Seth: ... of, like, w- walking to the tabernacle after having this crazy experience with the Ark? Yeah.
David: Making sacrifices there, and then walking back and being like, "These two things are supposed to be together"-
Seth: That's right
David: ... "and they need to be right next to the center of Jerusalem's power, Israel's power"-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... 'cause it, it's God's throne.
Seth: That's right.
David: Man, that is cool. Okay.
Seth: And again, it's, it's proving the main point.
David: Mm.
Seth: He is centralizing the functions of the priesthood-
David: Yes
Seth: ... in Jerusalem, or, like, for Israel.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: The sacrificial system, the presence of God, the authority of God's all coming together in one spot.
David: Mm.
Seth: He's building the right type of kingdom.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um, and what's really interesting, though, is when he tells Nathan this, that he wants to build God a house, he kind of says it, like, as if he feels guilty.
David: Oh, right, 'cause isn't he like, "I'm living in, like, a, a walled palace?"
Seth: He says, "I dwell in a house of cedar"-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... "but the Ark of the Covenant of the Lord is under a tent." Um, and then-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... Nathan says, "Well, do everything that's in your heart. I'm sure your, your motives are right."
David: Right.
Seth: But God responds-... and he tells David, like, "You know, I never asked to have a temple of cedar. Uh, like, if I would've wanted that from you, I would've told you."
David: Right.
Seth: "Uh, you don't need to feel guilty for having a better palace than me, because I've never asked you to build a better palace."
David: The whole world is my palace.
Seth: The whole world is my palace.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That's exactly right. But he does honor David's impulse-
David: Mm
Seth: ... for wanting to centralize the function of the priesthood in Jerusalem, right?
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: He's like, "It's good that you wanted to do this thing."
David: Yeah.
Seth: "In fact, I'm gonna let your son build it for you."
David: Mm.
Seth: "Uh, you can't because you're a man of war." We talked about this already.
David: Yep.
Seth: Um, but more than that, the big thing that happens in this moment is that God honors David's desire to centralize-
David: Mm
Seth: ... the priesthood in Israel by saying, "You don't have to build me a house. I'm gonna build up your house."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And he promises David that his dynasty will rule forever-
David: Mm
Seth: ... that his house, his lineage, will be the one that rules Israel, God's people, for all time, and his son will be the way in which the world is saved-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... functionally.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And that's- And it's that- in that context that He's finally says, "And your son will be the one to build the house you wanna build."
David: Right.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so it's, um, a house that wants to center everything on God's house-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... is the house that God will let last forever.
Seth: That's right. [laughing]
David: Yeah.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth: That's right. That's right.
David: All right.
Seth: Uh, that's right. [gentle music]
David: Okay, so it seems like David has been consolidating, right?
Seth: Okay.
David: That's, that's, that's the theme I'm picking up here.
Seth: That's right. That's right.
David: Is he's like, "Let me consolidate power."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Or let me... Or first, no, "Let me consolidate, um, the s- the center of authority in Jerusalem. Let me consolidate the scattered tribes. Let me consolidate, um-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... some peace through our enemies. We're gonna have some military victory."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: "Let me consolidate the artifacts of our faith with the Ark of the Covenant and the Tabernacle-
Seth: Yep
David: ... and get all that." And then, there's gonna be this permanent consolidation-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... in the house of God next to the King of God that will reign forever. Uh-
Seth: That's right
David: ... and that's, like, what he's doing. Okay.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Is, is that, like, the... what we should be thinking is, it just feels like this-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... sucking in-
Seth: That's right
David: ... of everything into this Davidic-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... temple s- epicenter of-
Seth: Right
David: ... Israel.
Seth: The main point the chronicler wants to make is that when a King-
David: Mm
Seth: ... of David centralizes hi- Israel around the priesthood-
David: Yep
Seth: ... it experiences rest, victory, and prosperity.
David: Okay, so then if that's true-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... after this happens-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and, and David's, you know, G- God being like, "Hey, your heart's good. I'm glad you wanna build me a house-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... You're consolidating everything. You've centralized it around the priests," the next thing I should expect is some peace or something?
Seth: He, he experiences victory after victory after-
David: Okay
Seth: ... victory over enemies that are threatening Israel's sovereignty.
David: Okay.
Seth: See, all these other nations who are threatening to attack Israel, David is victorious over all of them.
David: Yes, so once the nation is centralized around the priesthood-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... through, uh, King of David-
Seth: Yep
David: ... peace starts to go out-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... around the, the land. Okay.
Seth: And significantly, during some of these battles, it's like God's up to something that shouldn't... Like, impossible things start happening-
David: Mm
Seth: ... when David goes to war. God is acting on His own, and soon enough, nations start bowing to David-
David: Mm
Seth: ... without ever going to war to him.
David: Wow.
Seth: They're like, "Oh, I don't wanna fight you anymore, so w- we're just- we're at peace now." [chuckles]
David: We'll kiss the ring.
Seth: We'll kiss the ring, and they-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... So that idea of, like, peace coming-
David: Yes
Seth: ... is happening-
David: Right
Seth: ... through the military victories provided for by God.
David: Yes, and not just peace in Israel, peace outside of Israel.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: That's right.
David: Very good.
Seth: Uh, so we kinda have a whole bunch of victories-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... end up happening.
David: Yep.
Seth: Big deal. Um, and at the end of this series of victories, David does something that breaks the chronicler's mold.
David: Oh, the ideal paradigm.
Seth: The ideal paradigm of-
David: Listen to God, and you'll win.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: He does something against God's voice. He takes a census of all of his warriors.
David: Mm. A- and, uh, is the idea that he does that, it's an uncommissioned census, God didn't tell him to do this?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Is the idea... I can't remember. Is it, like, that he did it out of pride? Like-
Seth: Yeah, yeah
David: ... that he wanted to know how big his kingdom was, that he might have wanted to do it for, like, like, bad taxation reasons?
Seth: Um, [exhales] the- maybe.
David: Yeah.
Seth: All those things. I think the thing that Chronicles would want us to think more closely about is, what would knowing the exact number of your military men allow you to do on your own?
David: Build, uh, uh, the biggest army that you can?
Seth: May- well, you, you already have the army, so you're-
David: Oh, okay
Seth: ... counting the army. My, my thought here is that if I know exactly how many military forces I have-
David: Right
Seth: ... I can start making plans-
David: Right
Seth: ... without asking God's advice.
David: That's right, 'cause I have all the information.
Seth: I have all the information I need. I don't need to ask God what's feasible-
David: Oh
Seth: ... or how many men need to go to war. I can start making calculations on my own.
David: I see, so the census was a way for David to potentially start weaning himself off of depending on God's guidance.
Seth: I think that's probably the way the chronicler would have you think about it.
David: That makes sense.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yep, and God takes it very seriously.
Seth: Yeah. This is a gross injustice-
David: Mm
Seth: ... on David's part.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And God, um, in, we're told, in His wrath, comes to punish David. He gives David the option of experiencing either three years of famine, three months of devastation from their political enemies, or three days of the sword of the Lord, which he describes as pestilence or plagues.
David: Whoa!
Seth: David responds by saying, "I would rather throw myself on your sword, God, than the sword of my enemies."
David: Mm.
Seth: "So attack us for three days."
David: I see.
Seth: Right? Uh-
David: Because ev- yeah, everything else was more external.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: That's right. He's like, "I would rather, like-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... trust you for three days than my enemies for three months."
David: If someone's going to have a sword against me, I'd want it to be the Lord.
Seth: Uh, that's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: That's r- that's right. [chuckles]
David: Golly, that's a-... I could stay there forever.
Seth: Yeah. [laughing]
David: [laughing] We need to camp out there. Oh, goodness.
Seth: Um.
David: Okay, we might have to come back to that.
Seth: So through that, 70,000 people in Israel die-
David: Oh, my goodness
Seth: ... because of David's failure.
David: And, and that would've looked like a plague.
Seth: Yeah, a se- a pestilence.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um, and then after 70,000 people die, um, God sends that angel of the Lord with his sword drawn.
David: Mm, that we talked about in the last episode.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yes.
Seth: To Jerusalem.
David: So here, here he comes with his sword.
Seth: Mm-hmm, and as he's on the way to Jerusalem, the Lord saw, we're told, and he relented.
David: And are we supposed to be getting, like, Passover vibes here? 'Cause you have a series of plagues finished by the visit of an angel of death.
Seth: Um-
David: And then there's forgiveness and passing over.
Seth: I actually haven't thought about that.
David: I'm like, "That is like a new Exodus narrative."
Seth: Um, I have not thought about that. That's really interesting.
David: One of the echoes of Exodus.
Seth: Um, uh, what is interesting-
David: Mm
Seth: ... is on that idea, if we are seeing Passover parallels here-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... um, and the first enemy that Israel kinda comes up against after Solomon's rise-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... uh, comes from Egypt.
David: Ah.
Seth: So we have kind of a, a reversal of what happened in the Passover, where Egypt is now attack- or I guess it's the same thing, but Egypt is involved in the next story.
David: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth: Um, so-
David: I mean, that, uh, I mean, if there- if, if Solomon's the top of the, the chiasm-
Seth: Yes
David: ... and you have this, like, Exodus event, and then this Egyptian-
Seth: Yes
David: ... slavery event, kind of-
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... those do talk to each other. That's cool.
Seth: So God tells this angel of the Lord-
David: Or it's really sad, it's not cool.
Seth: [laughing] Yes.
David: Sorry. It's cool literarily-
Seth: [laughing]
David: ... it's devastating historically.
Seth: So God ha- sends this s- angel of the Lord-
David: Yes
Seth: ... over Israel, giant sword in his hand, but tells him to stop.
David: Yeah.
Seth: David sees this giant angel of the Lord over Jerusalem-
David: [exhales] Gosh
Seth: ... and rides out to him.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Okay?
David: Okay.
Seth: And he meets him on this threshing floor-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... this farmer's land. Which, oh, I forgot to tell you this-
David: What?
Seth: ... point. The last time David failed-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... uh, around the Ark, the Ark of the Covenant-
David: Oh, yes. Right
Seth: ... that man that died-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... he died at another threshing floor.
David: Oh.
Seth: So he died in, in another farmer's land.
David: Okay.
Seth: Um, and so another failure is be- is happening at another farmer's land.
David: Uh-huh.
Seth: Or actually, in this case, uh, the failure is being resolved on another farmer's land.
David: Right, but David thinks he's probably going there to die. The blood was on his hands from that guy that he sent to the Ark of the Covenant, and he's going now to another farmer's land-
Seth: Mm
David: ... to lay down his own life-
Seth: That's right
David: ... to pay for and substitute-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... sacrifice himself for H- Israel, and maybe even this other soldier who died because of his order.
David (voiceover): David here, jumping in. David the king steps between his people and the disaster his own sin set loose, and he offers himself. And God's answer is mercy.
Seth: And then what's crazy is, is the angel commands David to build an altar right there.
David: That is a little crazy.
Seth: Right?
David: Since you're not supposed to... Wait, uh, an al- altar for sacrifice?
Seth: An altar for sacrifice.
David: I mean, yeah, you're not supposed to sacrifice-
Seth: Well-
David: ... outside the temple, right?
Seth: You're not supposed to sacrifice outside the place God names.
David: Oh, loophole!
Seth: A loophole.
David: [laughing]
Seth: Uh, so God tells him to build an altar right there in this farmer's field.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Uh, David goes and buys the field, builds the altar, uh, sacrifices, and then the angel of the Lord sheathes his sword.
David: [exhales]
Seth: He responds to the act of self-sacrifice of Israel's leader, gives mercy to the entire nation because of one man's sacrifice.
David: Mm.
Seth: And we're told that this failure establishes the grounds for the new temple.
David: [exhales]
Seth: On the place of David's self-sacrifice is where the new- God's temple will be built.
David: Oh.
Seth: And God tells him explicitly, "You said you wanna build a temple, this is where you're gonna do it." Um... [laughing]
David: It's too, it's too much.
Seth: [laughing]
David: It's just too much. [gentle music] Okay, can we just unpack this-
Seth: Yes, please
David: ... for a moment?
Seth: Please.
David: The- and we've talked about a lot-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... but let's just stay in this story, 'cause I'm like, there's like 90,000 threads that are being pulled on. But you, you do- okay, so you have this idea that the angel of the Lord, the instrument of the Lord's wrath, is coming towards his people, and God's king, from the line of David, David himself-
Seth: Founding father of Israel
David: ... right.
Seth: Yes.
David: Goes and substitutes himself-
Seth: Mm
David: ... at the place that will become the temple.
Seth: That's right.
David: And the Lord, a- and offers a sacrifice-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and the Lord's wrath is averted.
Seth: That's right.
David: I mean, it's like, there's so many little things in there I wanna pick up, but that's-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that is the story-
Seth: That is
David: ... of the Gospel.
Seth: That is. And let's, let... Can I pull another thread?
David: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth: Add a thread, add a layer, add an onion skin?
David: Yes.
Seth: Um-
David: Don't make me cry.
Seth: Uh, [laughing] oh, the, uh, we're told in- when Solomon finally builds the temple-
David: Yes
Seth: ... on this place.
David: On that place, yep.
Seth: We're told that it's actually, he's building it on top of Mount Moriah-
David: Right
Seth: ... which is the same place that another founding father of Israel, Abraham-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... uh, was going to make a sacrifice, but God stopped him from making a sacrifice by providing another one instead.
David: Right.
Seth: And so now, twice on Mount Moriah-
David: Mm, mm
Seth: ... God has provided a means for Israel to be saved other than the death of one of Israel's sons.
David: And that will be the place where people come with their sin-
Seth: That's right
David: ... to offer sacrifices at the temple, and-
Seth: And be forgiven
David: ... and be forgiven.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay, I'm having a chicken or the egg moment here. [laughing]
Seth: Okay, okay. [laughing]
David: Which one came first? [laughing]
Seth: Okay.
David: The sacrificial system-
Seth: Mm, mm
David: ... and, uh, like, and, like, do we define what's happening there-
Seth: Uh-huh
David: ... by the laws in Leviticus-
Seth: Okay
David: ... and let atonement-
Seth: Yes
David: ... just exist inside of how-
Seth: Okay
David: ... it's described in Leviticus? Or is now the story reinterpreting-... what God commanded the sacrificial system to accomplish, or is it giving us its base definition? Like, the founding story of-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... the temple sacrifices-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... is substitution.
Seth: I understand.
David: And, and yet, the l- for Leviticus, yeah, the tabernacle, it was a lot about the purity of the land.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And I know, like, atonement theory and arguments-
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... fly, but it's like those two aren't afraid to just talk to each other-
Seth: No
David: ... and sync up.
Seth: No.
David: So I'm just like, this story is just like w- atonement theories colliding-
Seth: Yeah, it-
David: ... and I kinda just love it.
Seth: I love it, too.
David: It's just a super nerdy-
Seth: I love it, too
David: ... route here.
Seth: I, I mean, at the very least, God intends for His people to build their lives, their nations, around forgiveness-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and sacrifice.
David: J- drill in there.
Seth: Okay. [chuckles]
David: Because that's, that's the thing that I think gets m- can get missed-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... in atonement, especially when it comes to the mechanics of it-
Seth: Okay
David: ... and the t-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... the temple, the tabernacle-
Seth: Yeah, yeah
David: ... the sacrifices, the lambs, like-
Seth: What's happening, yeah.
David: Oh, my gosh, like, what's going on here? And it's like, this, at base, is what's going on here, is God wants to center His people around His forgiving heart.
Seth: That's right. That's exactly right.
David: Right, and the way He accomplishes forgiveness is through self-substitution.
Seth: That's right.
David: And it's like, that's what He does through Jesus, [chuckles] is-
Seth: That's right
David: ... He's like, "Can I show you, my people, how much I wanna forgive you, how much I love you?"
Seth: Yeah.
David: "I'm going to come and sacrifice myself-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... except I'm not gonna let the angel put the sword back in its sheath."
Seth: Yeah, I, I keep thinking about the way that God refuses-
David: Mm
Seth: ... for fathers or sons-
David: Right
Seth: ... to take the blame for something that he was going to do in the future.
David: That's right.
Seth: He makes Abraham sheath his sword.
David: Yep.
Seth: He makes the angel of the Lord sheath his sword against David.
David: Yeah.
Seth: But-
David: But Jesus, yeah
Seth: ... because he was waiting-
David: Right
Seth: ... to be a sacrifice f- on his own-
David: Right
Seth: ... to save his people.
David: Yeah, no- none of them ever had to say, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit."
Seth: Right.
David: Only Jesus had to say that.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Which is interesting to think about the way that... that's what David does at the beginning of this curse.
David: Mm.
Seth: He says, "I commit myself to your hand, Lord."
David: Right.
Seth: "I would rather suffer at your hand."
David: He doesn't say that, does he?
Seth: He, uh-
David: Does he use those words?
Seth: Uh, not-
David: 'Cause that would be ridiculous. [chuckles]
Seth: Not those exact words-
David: Okay. [chuckles]
Seth: ... but he does say-
David: It's like, did I just-
Seth: Yeah, he says this, he says, "I am in great distress. Let me fall into the hand of the Lord, for his mercy is very great."
David: I mean...
Seth: I mean, it's pretty close. [chuckles]
David: Is Jesus picking up on that on the cross?
Seth: I, I mean, he's-
David: "God, I'm falling into your hands-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... trusting you for mercy on the other-
Seth: Into your hand and my spirit
David: ... on the other side of this death." I mean, that's ridiculous.
Seth: Pretty-
David: That's pretty amazing.
Seth: Jesus is proving that he's a true son of David-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... ruling-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... his people.
David: Well, and he's proving the heart of God-
Seth: Yes
David: ... that whether in life or through death, God's heart is to forgive.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And He'll do that through, even if he has to substitute himself-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... for you.
Seth: Yeah. Um...
David: Ah.
Seth: Yeah, and I-
David: Okay
Seth: ... and I keep thinking, like, on, there's, like, a whole bunch of personal good news here.
David: Mm.
Seth: But I'm also just thinking about what does it really mean to build a kingdom, a nation, a country-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... around forgiveness?
David: Right.
Seth: That's its central tenet is forgiveness and self-sacrifice.
David: Right.
Seth: What does, like-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... a country built around those things look like?
David: I know what it doesn't look like. [chuckles]
Seth: I know what it doesn't look like-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... but I know where I get the best picture of that-
David: Mm
Seth: ... in the Church.
David: Okay, yeah.
Seth: Right?
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um, like, that is an institution. It's not an individual thing.
David: That's right.
Seth: But this is- that is a nation, a kingdom-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... an ultimate kingdom, not of this world, where the, our founding document talks about the forgiveness of sins-
David: Yes
Seth: ... and the necessity of sacrificing for others.
David: Right, and when-
Seth: The-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... the primary example being Jesus.
David: Right.
Seth: And we gather together every week in a building.
David: Right.
Seth: Not a temple, but a building. We are temples, but, you know-
David: Or a tent or a, a field.
Seth: Or a tent, and we, or field-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and we reorient, we recenter our lives around those two things, and then we go out into the world-
David: Mm-hmm, as priests
Seth: ... as priests to do that same thing all over again.
David: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, it's fascinating. When you think about, um, the way Jesus taught about how his church should operate, and it's really... Now, now that you've used the w- the word bureaucracy-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... it's one of the most bureaucratic texts in Jesus' teaching, which, w- is where he's talking, I think it's to Peter, about how many times he should forgive his brother.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: And there's rules about excommunication-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and there's rules about how many witnesses do you need, and-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... there's all this stuff about how the church should operate when people sin within it.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And he says, "How many times should I forgive my brother?" And he, he's basically says, "Infinitely."
Seth: Yeah.
David: Uh, d-
Seth: This is-
David: you know, "Forgive him perfection times perfection, 70 times 7."
Seth: Yeah.
David: And it's like, the Church is supposed to be built on-
Seth: Mm
David: ... endless forgiveness-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... for those who would throw themselves upon the mercy of the Lord-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and commit their spirit into His hands.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And I think w- I, I wanna keep using the words institution-
Seth: Mm
David: ... bureaucracy, because what happens after this moment, uh, David knows where the temple should be built.
Seth: Yeah.
David: He knows his son will build it. He knows the kingdom should be centered around the priesthood, the place of self-sacrifice, and the place of forgiveness, and the place of listening to God's voice. But he's not allowed to build that place.
Seth: Mm.
David: So what he does instead is he builds a nation.
Seth: Mm.
David: He charters an institution. In the next several chapters are lists of thousands and thousands of court officials, musicians, treasurers, diplomats. He builds a government-
Seth: Right
David: ... in the next several chapters for his son to inherit.
Seth: Mm.
David: And the idea here is that David is doing what a good king should do. He should build a government that focuses in on, centers around, builds an institution around the forgiveness of God-
Seth: ... and, uh, the, the voice of God.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And he's doing the best he can, knowing the information that he has-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and knowing what God has limited him to, to do.
David: I'm struggling-
Seth: Okay
David: ... seeing the, like, the thread of building a kingdom focused around the priesthood-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... in what you just said.
Seth: Okay.
David: In the, in the building of court officials and everything.
Seth: Yes.
David: It made a ton of sense with the Levite bure- bureaucracy-
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: The, the priest-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... bureaucracy. What's happening in this-
Seth: Um
David: ... next, another probably-
Seth: Well
David: ... trippy up section that people will find boring?
Seth: I, I should, I should reiterate, every bureaucratic moment in the next several chapters-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... is all about the Levites.
David: Oh, okay.
Seth: Everything he does after this point-
David: Yes
Seth: ... is to prepare for the successful operation of a completed temple.
David: Okay. So, yeah-
Seth: Yes
David: ... he wasn't building the parks and recreation department?
Seth: No.
David: Okay.
Seth: No, he's, he's not. He's organizing Levites by the tens of thousands. He's dividing, uh-
David: Oh, priests.
Seth: According to 24 different divisions and subdivisions. He's, uh, dividing the musicians according to 24 different divisions. He's marking and, uh, what it... appointing-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... uh, cabinet members, treasury, accountants. He's building his son an entire bureaucracy and an institution-
David: That's focused around the priests.
Seth: That's focused around the t- the priests.
David: I see.
Seth: Uh, the last thing he does do, so he does all this-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... as he should.
David: And that was, like, what? Like, 24 through 27?
Seth: To 20, uh, 26, basically.
David: Okay, 26.
Seth: 27 is another, um... It's more bureaucracy, but it's military bureaucracy.
David: Okay.
Seth: He builds a military complex-
David: Got it
Seth: ... in order to protect the temple.
David: Right.
Seth: That's what the, the kingdom is supposed to do. And at some point, some nation's gonna attack, and we should stand ready-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... to listen to God's voice and how we should, uh, we should do that. We're not gonna be unwise and have no military, in case we need it. [chuckles]
David: Sure.
Seth: We're, we're living in a fallen world. I don't know, I'm maybe over-interpreting.
David: [laughs]
Seth: But he's doing something good in this moment.
David: Okay.
Seth: He is-
David: This is somehow different than the last census?
Seth: Yes.
David: Okay.
Seth: Um, and it's really... Yeah, yeah, somehow different than the last census.
David: Okay.
Seth: And remember, going back all the way to the, the genealogy, you had the, on the outside, you had the kings-
David: Yes
Seth: ... the tribe of Judah-
David: Right
Seth: ... and the tribe of Benjamin, the kingly tribes. And on the inside of them is the rest of the tribes of Israel.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And then the inside of that, you have the priests.
David: Right.
Seth: Right?
David: And it was the whole nation and political complex-
Seth: Right
David: ... surrounding the priests as they surround the temple.
Seth: Right. So the king's job is to protect the temple.
David: Yep.
Seth: But the king's job is also to protect the people.
David: Yep.
Seth: And the people's job is also to protect the temple. And so what's interesting, and in this military list, is an accounting for all the tribes of Israel. It's an accounting of everybody's combined responsibility-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... to protect the institution of the temple.
David: Okay.
Seth: Does that make sense?
David: It does make sense. This is where I start to be like, why does this matter to the fir- w- how would this matter to the first recipient?
Seth: I understand.
David: Is like, "What? Okay, cool. That-
Seth: Right
David: ... that, that happened."
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: I got the point of a lot of the other censuses-
Seth: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
David: ... and stuff like that, but for this, like, when a, when a, when a Jew returning from exile and rebuilding the temple-
Seth: Right
David: ... questioning the line of David, questioning the legitimacy of the temple, what is this doing for them?
Seth: David does all this.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Tens and tens of thousands of people. He also collects all the building materials for the temple.
David: Okay.
Seth: So, uh, millions of pounds of precious metals.
David: Right.
Seth: Uh, like, w- we're told multiple times... We can't measure how much there is.
David: Okay.
Seth: Uh, there's just... He builds all the stones, gathers the gold, gathers the jewels. He's, like, preparing for his son to do better than him.
David: So Solomon didn't have to do any of this gathering?
Seth: None of it.
David: Oh, my goodness.
Seth: Uh, his father did it all for him.
David: Okay.
Seth: And if you're on the beginning stages-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... of rebuilding your country, you're gonna be preparing for a generation after you.
David: Oh, yeah.
Seth: You are gonna be handing off your nation to people less experienced, um, and perhaps less equipped than you-
David: Right
Seth: ... to do the will of God.
David: Right.
Seth: So for this first generation, what do they need to be like? They need to be like David, who's preparing in advance-
David: Mm
Seth: ... for the future success of God's priesthood and the future success of God's Davidic king.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And so what does that look like? Boots on the ground-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... bureaucracy. It looks-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... boots on the ground, like, make sure you have, uh, generals and ambassadors-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and diplomats and heads of state and cabinet members. Make sure you have, uh, the names of those who are s- allocated by the Torah to be musicians, make sure they're the same people.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Make sure that line of descent is correct.
David: Yeah. I think I'm following, and it's like, I... Let me take a stab.
Seth: Yeah.
David: 'Cause I'm remembering Ezra and Nehemiah, you know?
Seth: Okay.
David: And the king allows them to come back from exile, and even equips them to rebuild the temple.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And but the, the showing of returning exiles is meek.
Seth: Mm.
David: Not many people go back.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And they get there, they try to scrounge together some Levites, and they get-
Seth: Mm
David: ... enough to accomplish something.
Seth: Yeah.
David: But the temple's weak. There's no king on the throne. There's no throne for a king to be on.
Seth: Yeah.
David: They get a governor, and a lot of people aren't even returning from exile. And it's like, you have this galvanization-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... under David's reign of resources, people, organization. It's this sucking in again-
Seth: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... that's happening, and I could see this story being a clarion call to those still in exile, or those timidly returning, or those lackadaisically waiting in Israel-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... about the need to rebuild Israel.
Seth: Right.
David: To rebuild the nation.
Seth: Right.
David: And not ju- Israel matters.
Seth: Yes.
David: Right? Like-
Seth: Yes
David: ... it matters-
Seth: Yes
David: ... as a, as a nation state in the world-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... because it's where God's king is going to reign.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Uh, you know, he's gonna come from there. He's going to, um, execute justice from there.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And they need to be about its rebuilding.
Seth: That's right.
David: I could see that as, like, a kick in the pants.
Seth: That's exactly what it's supposed to be-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... because after all this stuff happens-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... Solomon is given the kingdom. He's crowned king.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And we get nine chapters of description of what his reign looked like.
David: Okay.
Seth: And this is supposed to be the high point of the whole book.
David: Mm.
Seth: If you nation builders, or like your first founding father who built a nation, look what's possible-... when you have a Davidic king who's focused on the priesthood, making sure that God's nation is built around forgiveness and listening to His voice, here's what it could look like.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And then he offers up Solomon as an example.
David: Wow, okay. Um, we're gonna have to land the plane here.
Seth: Okay.
David: And then I guess we'll have to talk about Solomon-
Seth: Great
David: ... next. But one last thing-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... although there were, there's a ton, I think, that we could pull on from the life of David. I mean, I'm thinking, like, obviously, Jesus says that he never did anything without listening to the, the, the voice of his Father.
Seth: That's right.
David: And he perfectly led a kingdom.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: You know, he is the, the king of David, who says, "The Kingdom of God is at hand. It's here. Why? 'Cause I'm here."
Seth: Yeah.
David: You know, and so it's... Man, there's so much to pull on there. Um, he galvanizes 12 disciples-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... gathers them around himself-
Seth: That's right
David: ... uh, and takes them-
Seth: And he goes-
David: ... to Jerusalem. [chuckles]
Seth: Yeah, and he goes on a healing conquest.
David: Yes. Oh, yes, yes!
Seth: Instead of defeating armies, he defeats sickness-
David: That's right
Seth: ... and leprosy, and demons-
David: Right
Seth: ... and they flee from, from the 12 disciples. Yeah.
David: It's amazing how Jesus's life maps on to David's ascension in Chronicles.
Seth: That's right.
David: Yeah, he's anointed, right, by John the Baptist.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Right? And then he, uh, he- then he goes out on his campaign to start healing people.
Seth: That's right.
David: He gathers 12 disciples-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... takes them to Jerusalem. He even goes and stands in the temple itself and shows that he's the new place where-
Seth: Mm
David: ... forgiveness of sins will come from.
Seth: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
David: Uh, and then he commits himself to God's hands on the cross.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And then-
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Read the whole story [chuckles]
David: ... raises, raises a whole kingdom of priests to rule.
Seth: Mm.
David: And then this is the thing that we get to now is we are Solomon, and Jesus is David. Jesus earned an entire kingdom for us.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Built it, paid for it-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... brought it to us, organized it-
Seth: Yep
David: ... and then said, "Here you go, my son."
Seth: Right.
David: "Rule and reign-
Seth: Yes
David: ... on my behalf."
Seth: Yes, and I think, and this is me being maybe weirder than I should be-
David: [chuckles]
Seth: ... the good news of bureaucracy-
David: [laughs] Okay, yeah. Right
Seth: ... um, is the good news of a church.
David: Mm.
Seth: 'Cause the church doesn't exist without leadership-
David: Right
Seth: ... elders, teachers-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... prophets, apostles. Like-
David: Right
Seth: ... a church is built up of a whole bunch of moving parts that need organization.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And we're also told that the global church also has a structure. It's called the Body of Christ.
David: Right.
Seth: So limbs, fingers-
David: All under the head of Christ
Seth: ... legs, all under the head of Christ. Like, God has saved us in Jesus-
David: Mm
Seth: ... to build a new organism-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... a new kingdom, a new bureaucracy that does what? That centers itself around the forgiveness of God, his own self-sacrifice for the good and peace of the nations.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And that's what we do in church-
David: Mm
Seth: ... not just as individuals, which is su- true enough, but, like, we are saved to do this as an entity-
David: Mm
Seth: ... like a moving force in the world-
David: Right
Seth: ... a kingdom-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... that's not of this world, an alternate kingdom.
David: Yes. No, I think it's so good to say it another way, uh, 'cause I think you're absolutely right. I think to say it another way is w- people should look at the organization of the church, right?
Seth: Mm-hmm. Yes.
David: And it doesn't matter what we're talking about here.
Seth: Right.
David: Talk about global, talk about it local-
Seth: Yes
David: ... talk about it Eastern Orthodox, uh, Protestant, Evangelical, Roman Catholic.
Seth: Well-
David: Like, you should... Whoever it is, any, any Jesus followers that are collected together-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... right?
Seth: Yes.
David: The, the world should look at that and go, "That's a different kingdom."
Seth: That's right.
David: "It's organized different. It's operating different. It's built around something different."
Seth: That's right.
David: What is it? They're listening to the voice of God.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: So they're acting differently in the world, and that looks diff-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... that looks strange, just bringing peace to our neighborhood.
Seth: That's right.
David: Uh, and their just, their modus operandi is forgiveness.
Seth: Yeah.
David: We hold on to loans, and debts, and-
Seth: Mm
David: ... you have a criminal record, and-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... we operate on unforgiveness.
Seth: Yeah, yeah.
David: Government operates on unforgiveness.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, taxes and, like-
Seth: [chuckles] Right
David: ... everything is debt and owe-
Seth: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... and, yeah. And what is going on? They're not- they don't owe the church money, but they give freely?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Right? Like-
Seth: Right
David: ... they're not being paid by the church, but they work there.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Like, these volunteer... What are they doing? What is this place?
Seth: There are all priests sacrificing themselves the same-
David: Right
Seth: ... each other?
David: They're making sacrifices, and it's this weird counter-kingdom-
Seth: Mm
David: ... that we inherited from the final king of David.
Seth: Yeah, and in the same hope that, like, Solomon's kingdom might last forever-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... David's son would last forever, like, that kingdom would last forever.
David: Yep.
Seth: And that was the hope that Da- God promised David. The church will last forever.
David: Yes, the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
Seth: There's the only one unstoppable institution in the world-
David: Yep
Seth: ... and it's the church.
David: That's right. Okay, well, that was David.
Seth: That was David.
David: Yeah, and that took us through the end of, of 1 Chronicles.
Seth: That's right.
David: Yeah, so-
Seth: So next time, we'll start with the idealized reign of King Solomon, and then maybe some examples from the rest of the book of Chronicles.
David: Amazing. Can't wait. Thank you, guys, for joining us in this walkthrough of Chronicles. It's been awesome. We can't wait to see you next time, so we'll see you then. [upbeat music]
Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel creates short films, devotionals, and podcasts like this one. Everything we make is free because of generous supporters like you. To see our resources, visit spokengospel.com or subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. See you next time. [upbeat music]