David: [upbeat music] What do you build a nation around? Listening to God's voice and sacrificing yourself for others.
Seth: Yeah.
David: I mean, like, that is the New Testament.
Seth: That is right!
David: Like-
Seth: That is right
David: ... that's just, like, so beautiful. [upbeat music]
Intro: Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a ministry that's dedicated to speaking the gospel out of every corner of scripture. In Luke 24, Jesus told his disciples that every part of the Bible is about him. In each episode, hosts David and Seth work through a passage of scripture to see how it's all about Jesus and his good news. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]
David: Well, welcome, everyone, to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Thank you for joining us. We are starting the Book of Chronicles today, or for some of you, the Books of Chronicles, 1 and 2 Chronicles.
Seth: First and 2 Chronicles.
David: Seth, how you feeling about this massive-
Seth: Man
David: ... was it 65 chapter book?
Seth: 60... It's the 65-chapter black hole of my Bible-
David: Yeah [laughing]
Seth: ... generally. It's like, oh, I come across the nine chapters of genealogy at the beginning, I'm like, "I'm gonna skip that."
David: I'm gonna move on. [laughs]
Seth: And then I get to the next part, and it's just stories I've already read in 1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings.
David: That's right.
Seth: And so I have not done a ton of study, uh, about this book, which I think-
David: What is... Yeah, what is this long, genealogy-heavy, repeated story book doing in my Bible?
Seth: That's exactly-
David: Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: That's exactly right. And so I'm, uh, not willing to ask that question of myself in my previous ver- re-
David: Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: ... my previous readings through the Chronicles, um, I got to this time, and I'm actually very excited.
David: Yeah.
Seth: My best analogy for what the Book of Chronicles is doing-
David: Okay
Seth: ... in our Bibles is that it's the Hamilton, the musical. Uh-
David: Oh, like the Lin-Manuel Miranda musical?
Seth: Yeah, it's the Hamilton of our Bibles. [laughing]
David: [laughing] I have every question.
Seth: [laughing] Um-
David: Explain yourself.
Seth: So first of all, both Chronicles and Hamilton starts off with a genealogy.
David: Uh, oh, yeah, Hamilton's is a little more interesting.
Seth: His is short, uh, it's like-
David: Musical.
Seth: Yeah, it's like... And he uses the technical term here, so I'm not swearing, but how does a bastard, orphan, son of a whore and a Scotsman, dropped off at a forgotten spot in the Caribbean, grow up to be a hero and a scholar?
David: Yes.
Seth: And what's interesting about that genealogy in Hamilton is it gives you who he is, where he's from. He's a nobody from nowhere.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And what he'll become. He'll become a hero and a scholar.
David: Yep.
Seth: And it tells you the entire point of the musical, which is that anybody from anywhere-
David: Can become anything
Seth: ... in America.
David: In America.
Seth: In America, right?
David: Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Seth: It's a, an orphan can become-
David: Yep
Seth: ... can create a nation.
David: Right.
Seth: And that's the story of Hamilton.
David: And you get that from this genealogy at the beginning.
Seth: That's right. And we'll go into deep detail on how the, the genealogy in Chronicles does the same thing, but it gives us a picture of how Israel came to be, but how Israel should act in the future.
David: Okay. So is the only way that Hamilton and Chronicles are the same because they both start with a genealogy and share themes?
Seth: No, they're also both... Uh, well, Hamilton's obviously a musical, but Chronicles is the book of the Bible that has probably the most references to music, musical instruments, and singing than any other book.
David: I would've never guessed that.
Seth: Yeah, it is... In fact, it's the very center of the genealogy. You have nine chapters of genealogy-
David: Oh, okay, yeah
Seth: ... and the very, very center, the center of its chiasm-
David: Yeah, which for a Hebrew reader is the-
Seth: Is the most important
David: ... most important thing. Yep.
Seth: Are priestly singers.
David: What?
Seth: Singers are the most important characters in the book-
David: Why-
Seth: ... or some of the most important characters.
David: Why, why music and instruments and singing?
Seth: Uh, well, there's a whole bunch of answers-
David: Oh, no
Seth: ... for that, but I mean-
David: Is it too, too early for that question?
Seth: Basically, the reason why... It's a little early, but we'll answer it.
David: Okay.
Seth: The reason why is, according to the Book of Chronicles, singing is how you get guidance from God. Singers are called prophets-
David: Whoa
Seth: ... and singing is called prophecy.
David: Okay.
Seth: And kings rise or fall in Israel based on their response to God's word in the mouth of the prophets, whether or not they ask God for advice-
David: Yep
Seth: ... and they listen to it. So the very center of the genealogy are all these singing prophets directing the kings of Israel-
David: Hmm
Seth: ... on how they should behave and how they should lead their nation.
David: That's cool.
Seth: And if they fail to do that, their nation falls apart. If they do do that, their nation-
David: Huh
Seth: ... succeeds.
David: Okay.
Seth: So the genealogy tells us how a nation should act.
David: Ah, with the- with prophets singing the direction and word of the Lord at its center.
Seth: Yes, and kings listening to it.
David: And kings listening to it.
Seth: Yes, it will, uh, the... Yeah.
David: Okay.
Seth: So-
David: We'll get... We'll go more.
Seth: We'll go, we'll go more in there-
David: Okay
Seth: ... but, uh, it proves the point of the whole book. That's like, as kings listen to the voice of the Lord-
David: Mm
Seth: ... they have success.
David: Okay, any other similarities?
Seth: Uh, yeah.
David: [laughs] Oh, boy.
Seth: Uh, they're both about a founding father of a nation.
David: Okay.
Seth: So H- Hamilton's obvious about Alexander Hamilton.
David: Alexander Hamilton.
Seth: Hamilton. That's right.
David: Yep.
Seth: 1 Chronicles opens with a genealogy, but after the genealogy, m- all of cha- 1 Chronicles, the rest of 1 Chronicles-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... is about David's rise to power.
David: Ah.
Seth: And so it chronicles the entire rise of power to David, how he becomes king-
David: Mm
Seth: ... how he gets a capital city, how he gets a covenant from God, and how he is the ideal king who listens to the voice of God.
David: Mm, okay.
Seth: Um-
David: Founding Father David.
Seth: Founding Father David.
David: Great.
Seth: Um, and then you get the pinnacle of his reign in his son, Solomon. At the very top of the, the book is Solomon's reign.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And interestingly, he's the only king who's never critiqued for something he does wrong.
David: Solomon? Or-
Seth: Solomon is.
David: Oh.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Strange, he did a lot of things wrong.
Seth: Very interesting-
David: Yeah, okay
Seth: ... which gets to our next point of similarity between Hamilton-
David: There's more? [laughs]
Seth: ... and Chronicles, yeah, is that they present an idealized vision-
David: Ah
Seth: ... of Israel's history.
David: Yeah, 1 and 2 Kings are not idealized at all.
Seth: No, they're... All the warts and all the bad things-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... the kings of Israel do are present there.
David: Yeah, and highlighted even.
Seth: Yeah, and-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and particularly in David and Solomon.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Um, and David and Solomon are-... portrayed as the highest points and the highest ideals to which Israel should aspire to be like.
David: Okay.
Seth: And-
David: And how's that similar to Hamilton?
Seth: Because similar to Hamilton in that Hamilton presents an idealized picture, a selection of facts-
David: Mm
Seth: ... about Alexander Hamilton.
David: Oh, sure. Yeah.
Seth: And even the way that, like, all of the characters are people of color or African American, which is, everyone knows that that's, George Washington was not a black man.
David: Oh, sure. And espe- yeah, it's like you have, and they were slave owners.
Seth: And they were slave owners.
David: Yeah.
Seth: But they paper over those facts.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Why? Because they're making a different point right now.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That anybody from anywhere could be anyone-
David: I see
Seth: ... in America.
David: It's an idealized thing.
Seth: It's an idealized picture of America-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... to prove a point.
David: Which is, which is, like, beautiful and really cool.
Seth: Which, right, if-
David: Okay.
Seth: So you're supposed to look past the things you already know wrong-
David: Mm
Seth: ... about Solomon and David.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And some of S- David's failures are included. Sol- none of Solomon's are.
David: Interesting.
Seth: Isn't it fascinating?
David: Yeah.
Seth: But they want you to focus on the main point.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Solomon is this high picture of a king who listens to God-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and experiences God's blessing as a result.
David: Okay.
Seth: Who has peace on every side-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... he has no enemies, he's wealthy.
David: Yeah.
Seth: This is a picture of what a king looks like when they listen to God well.
David: Okay. Any other similarities?
Seth: Um-
David: I'm sure there are, but any, any of the big ones?
Seth: That, uh, yeah, I, I think the, the main point is, it, it has a moral point it's making.
David: Oh, okay.
Seth: Right? So, like, the moral point of Hamilton is, like, if you put in the hard work-
David: Ah, yes
Seth: ... you can be-
David: Anything
Seth: ... anything, you can build a nation.
David: Right. Work hard-
Seth: And you can build a nation.
David: Yeah.
Seth: In the Book of Chronicles, the message is, if you listen to God-
David: Ah
Seth: ... God will build your nation for you.
David: Okay.
Seth: Yeah.
David: That's cool.
Seth: And that is important because of when Chronicles was written.
David: Mm.
Seth: So I and II Kings and I and II Samuel were written more than likely while Israel's in exile.
David: Okay, so after the Assyrians drove out the Northern Kingdom, the Babylonians drove out the-
Seth: That's right
David: ... Southern Kingdom of Judah. They're in exile, scattered among the nations-
Seth: That's right
David: ... and this was written.
Seth: And this is a product of their sin, right?
David: Yep.
Seth: They failed God.
David: And they're asking the question, "Why are we here? Why would God do this to us?" And so-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... highlighting the sins of Israel is important-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... because it's like, "Oh, I understand-
Seth: Why I'm here
David: ... why I'm here."
Seth: And then what happens, the Book of Kings, over and over again, God shows mercy-
David: Mercy
Seth: ... to people-
David: That you would never expect [chuckles]
Seth: ... that you would never expect to have mercy to.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And what do you need if you're in exile?
David: Mercy.
Seth: You need mercy.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Why is it when Israel's in exile in the book of I Kings,
David: Mm
Seth: ... and they're reading this story, that you have the first stories of resurrection?
David: Oh, you-
Seth: Because Israel as a nation has died-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and they need the message of resurrection.
David: Well, that's cool.
Seth: Chronicles was written to people in exile.
David: Mm.
Seth: Israel has come back from exile. More than likely, they've rebuilt the temple.
David: Okay.
Seth: They've been in Israel for a little while, and now they're asking the question, "Well, how do we rebuild our nation?"
David: Mm.
Seth: So they're not in exile, they're rebuilding.
David: I see.
Seth: And so the chronicler is writing to a people who are rebuilding and asking really fundamental questions about how to rebuild their nation. "Well, how should we do it? We don't wanna repeat the sins of the past, so what do we do now?" And depending on who I've... A couple of people I've read, it's like there's might have been a sense that as they're rebuilding Israel, that they should abandon a couple of things that were really important to Israel in the past.
David: Mm.
Seth: Namely, the Davidic line and the temple itself.
David: Oh, okay. Yeah.
Seth: Because think about it, why did Judah end up going to exile? Because of a son of David on a throne introducing idolatry into the land.
David: Right.
Seth: So over and over again throughout Israel's history, and what did David do wrong? He, he slept with Bathsheba-
David: Yep
Seth: ... and his failures as a leader then poisoned-
David: Right
Seth: ... the rest of Israel's history.
David: Isn't this whole son of David thing shot now?
Seth: Right.
David: Shouldn't we give up on it?
Seth: That's right. It's like God did promise something special to David-
David: Right
Seth: ... but all of David's sons have proved to be less than worthy people to follow.
David: Mm.
Seth: Right?
David: Yeah.
Seth: So-
David: It seems, it could seem like that, yeah.
Seth: It could seem like that. And the, even the temple itself was supposed to provide a level of protection-
David: Mm
Seth: ... right? Like, if they've prioritized the temple, wasn't supposed to be something magical about that-
David: Right, yeah
Seth: ... that protected them?
David: It-
Seth: But they had a temple, and-
David: And it failed them
Seth: ... and it failed them.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And even in Ezra and Nehemiah, when they rebuilt the temple, what do all the old men do when they see it?
David: They cry, 'cause it wasn't as grand as the one that came before it.
Seth: Right. So Israel's rebuilding their nation after be- spending a long time in exile.
David: Mm.
Seth: They're asking themself, "By what standards should we rebuild our nation? What stories from our founding fathers should we listen to, which ones should we ignore?"
David: Mm.
Seth: "Because the first version of our history did not go so well."
David: Right.
Seth: And so the chronicler's writing to these people, particularly to leaders of people, and he's saying, "Okay, let me teach you what was good about our founding fathers-
David: Mm
Seth: ... so that we can copy their successes while avoiding their mistakes."
David: Oh, that's helpful.
Seth: Yeah.
David: That's- and that's the reason for the idealized picture.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: It's like, we all know the problems. They're de- they're, like, tempted to throw off these things, perhaps.
David: Yes.
Seth: We know the problems, but what do we know... What good things do we know happened-
David: Right
Seth: ... during that time?
David: Yeah. God has answered the mercy that I and II Kings cried out for and exemplified-
Seth: That's right. That's right
David: ... by bringing us out of exile, back into the land, rebuilding the temple, uh, even giving us someone like Zerubbabel possibly, and others who are-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... from David's line. Maybe something cool is happening.
Seth: Yep.
David: That's answered, but now can we trust the line of David? Can we trust the temple?
Seth: Yep.
David: These seem to be a mixed bag in our history. Let's have the chronicler tell a, the different story, the other side of the coin, and highlight the good things about Israel's history-
Seth: Yes
David: ... so we're like, "Oh, this isn't worth giving up."
Seth: That's right.
David: "It is, there is good, there's gold in it, and I can trust it, and I can follow the example of it."
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay, I'm tracking.
Seth: Yeah. And so and the message the chronicler is gonna give us over and over and over again, is that when a son of David-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... centers Israel around the priesthood-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... God's people are given rest.
David: Okay.
Seth: So that's the-
David: Okay
Seth: ... big, main point.
David: All right.
Seth: Where the son of David-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... centers Israel around the priesthood, God's people get rest.
David: Okay. I... Can we drill into those?
Seth: Yes, please.
David: Okay, because uh, we've talked a lot about the line of David already.
Seth: Yes.
David: And I'm like, okay, some people might be lost just right there.
Seth: Okay.
David: So let's back up.... why is David so important? What is this promise that God made to him?
Seth: Okay, okay.
David: Maybe we rewind and go back to 2 Samuel 7-
Seth: Yes
David: ... kind of talk about that a little.
Seth: Uh, yeah, it's interesting, like, we get that story in Chronicles again.
David: Okay.
Seth: We're given that promise. But essentially, the story goes this way: David proves he's a faithful warrior, willing to fight-
David: Mm
Seth: ... on God's behalf and for Israel. He proved himself better than Saul-
David: Mm
Seth: ... who was I- Israel's first king.
David: Right.
Seth: And when he finally comes to power, he does a whole bunch of really, really great things following God-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... as he's, as he's leading. Lots of military victories, a lot of great things. At one point, David wants to build and make permanent God's temple.
David: Because at that point, it was just a tent. It was the tabernacle-
Seth: That's right
David: ... the wilderness tabernacle that was mobile and-
Seth: Yep
David: ... flimsy.
Seth: And it was a long- it was a long way away from the new capital, Jerusalem.
David: Oh, yes, it was in, I can't remember where it was.
Seth: In Gibeon.
David: In Gibeon, okay.
Seth: And so it's like anytime that David wanted to ask God for advice-
David: [chuckles]
Seth: ... it's like a several-mile trip, like an all-day, multiple-day trip-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... just to ask God for advice.
David: Okay.
Seth: He wants to be a good king. He wants to listen to God more consistently.
David: Mm.
Seth: So he wants to bring God's presence closer to him-
David: Yep. Wants to put-
Seth: ... uh, to the new center of Israel.
David: Wants to put the temple by the palace.
Seth: Yes, that's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: Uh, we'll get into some more of those details in a minute.
David: Okay.
Seth: And God basically hears that and says, like, "I haven't asked for that-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... but your heart's right."
David: Okay.
Seth: "You want to ask me more frequently, but here's what I'm gonna do in response to your good heart.
David: Mm.
Seth: I'm gonna make you, David, the forefather of an eternal king."
David: Yeah.
Seth: "You will never not have a king on the throne, and he is the person who will build my house for me in Jerusalem-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and who will rule forever-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... the Earth forever, Jerusalem forever-
David: Right
Seth: ... God's people forever." And so David's given this amazing promise that his line, his dynasty, will save the world one day.
David: Yeah, that someday, one of his sons, presumably even maybe the next son-
Seth: Solomon, right
David: ... Solomon, would be an eternal king over the whole world-
Seth: That's right
David: ... to bring, what you said, peace on every side.
Seth: That's right. That's right.
David: Okay, so that's the- that's what's important about the line of David, is that attached to David-
Seth: Yes
David: ... there is this huge promise from God-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that from him, there would be an eternal king-
Seth: Right
David: ... that would rule forever and everywhere.
Seth: Yes.
David: And Israel's crying out for that to be true-
Seth: Right
David: ... because they want peace on every side. They want security, so that's what's attached to the line of David.
Seth: That's right.
David: But then you also said, "So someone from the line of David..."
Seth: Right, and s- and remember, these, the people Chronicles is written to might be tempted to say, "Those promises no longer apply-
David: Okay, right
Seth: ... because David's line's been so catastrophically sinful."
David: Yes.
Seth: "And they're the ones who sent us into exile," right?
David: Mm.
Seth: " Wasn't Manasseh on the throne? Wasn't a son of David on the throne-
David: Right
Seth: ... that got us sent out of Israel in the first place?
David: Mm.
Seth: Why should he be on the throne?"
David: Yeah.
Seth: And the answer is kind of in the Book of Kings. Well, God's promised mercy-
David: Right
Seth: ... to somebody from David.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Uh, so-
David: But then Chronicles is gonna come along and add fuel to that-
Seth: Yes
David: ... and say, "Also, David wasn't all bad."
Seth: He wasn't all bad.
David: Like, let's rewind the clock back and-
Seth: And, like, remember our actual history-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... when David was faithful, we had peace.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And we had wealth.
David: Right.
Seth: And we-
David: And God was with us.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yeah, okay. So a son of David centered around the priests.
Seth: Centers Israel around the priesthood.
David: Okay, talk me, talk to me about that.
Seth: It might be helpful to just start talking about the genealogy-
David: Okay
Seth: ... at this point. I mean, just-
David: I mean, that's... I've never heard some- I've never asked for clarity for something-
Seth: [laughs]
David: ... and then the answer was, "Great, I can answer that question. Let's talk about a genealogy." [laughs]
Seth: Ah, maybe this won't be helpful.
David: But I bet you're right. [chuckles]
Seth: Um, so the genealogy is, like all genealogies, have a, has a ton of effort and care put into how it's structured.
David: Yes.
Seth: And so this genealogy in the book of Chronicles is a chiasm-
David: Mm
Seth: ... or a mountain.
David: Yeah.
Seth: It has parallel moments on either side of the genealogy, and at the very, very top is a priesthood.
David: Okay.
Seth: So the way- here's the way the genealogy works. On the outer edges, in chapters one and then in chapter nine-
David: Oh, my goodness-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that's a long genealogy. [chuckles]
Seth: It's a giant... Yeah. In chapter one, you have Israel's history before its kingdom. Before there is ever a king, before there's ever a kingdom, you get Israel's history-
David: Okay
Seth: ... chapter one. At the very end, in chapter nine-
David: Oh, and it starts with Adam.
Seth: It starts with Adam-
David: Oh
Seth: ... all the way back in the beginning.
David: You weren't kidding.
Seth: No.
David: Are, are you just bringing this up 'cause you're the second name?
Seth: I am the second name-
David: Seth
Seth: ... Adam, Seth. [laughs]
David: [laughs]
Seth: And then chapter nine is a genealogy of all the people who come back to Israel after exile, so after the kingdom period.
David: Okay.
Seth: So on either end of the genealogy, you've got pre- and post-kingdom people. The next person in the list is the tribe of Judah, which is the kingly tribe that David is from, okay?
David: Okay.
Seth: And then paralleling that on the other side of the genealogy is the tribe of Benjamin, which is King Saul's line, the first king of Judah. Okay?
David: Okay.
Seth: You with me so far?
David: And when you say the next in the list, you're saying, like, the next parallel moment?
Seth: Yeah, so you have the- on either side, for the our, for our video-
David: [laughs]
Seth: ... video people, you've got pre- and post-kingdom.
David: Right.
Seth: Then you've got the line of David and the line of Saul, Israel's first king and the second king.
David: Okay, okay, okay.
Seth: Then you have all the other tribes'-
David: Yep
Seth: ... genealogies, names of all the other tribes, and at the very, very top, you have the priesthood.
David: The... Is that the tribe of Levi?
Seth: The Levites.
David: Okay.
Seth: The tribe of Levi.
David: Yep, that makes sense.
Seth: Yep.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And in the middle of Levi, you have the s- the singers.
David: Okay.
Seth: The singers.
David: That makes a ton of sense.
Seth: Right?
David: Yep.
Seth: And so I guess the question is why focus on the priesthood?
David: Right, right.
Seth: The point of the genealogy is to show you that all of Israel's history is bent towards the priesthood.
David: Mm.
Seth: And it's actually presenting an ideal of how Israel should structure itself.
David: Mm.
Seth: It should lean towards the center, which should be the priesthood.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Think all the way back to book of Exodus and Numbers and Deuteronomy.
David: Right.
Seth: The tabernacle, the place of God's presence, was in the middle of the camp-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and all of the tribes were organized around it in circles around it.
David: Yes, I remember that.
Seth: Right?
David: Yep.
Seth: So this is the way God's people have always meant to organize themselves.
David: Right, and the Levites were the closest.
Seth: And the Levites were the closest.
David: Right.
Seth: They were the tribe responsible for caring for the temple.
David: That's right.
Seth: So-... I don't, I don't know if this is answering your question, but the Book of Chronicles-
David: Mm
Seth: -believes that at the center of Israel should be the priesthood.
David: I think, I think that- I mean, that makes total sense of like, "Oh, it's definitely setting up that category."
Seth: Yep.
David: What does it mean-
Seth: Ah!
David: -to center Israel around a priesthood?
Seth: Okay, so two very specific things.
David: Mm.
Seth: One, as I've already said, at the very center of the priesthood are s- singers, priestly singers, musical instruments, and singers.
David: Yep, and, and the singers, just for a refresh for me, Chronicles teaches us that the singers are proclaiming God's Word and way to the people.
Seth: Uh, yeah, in 1 Chronicles 25, if you wanna jump there, David organizes 4,000 musicians. Um, [laughing]
David: Whoa! [laughing] It's like Woodstock.
Seth: Yeah.
David: [laughing]
Seth: At, at the very center of Israel are four... Like, lists of thousands and thousands of-
David: Oh, my goodness
Seth: ... prophetic musicians. "David and the chiefs of the service also set apart for the service the sons of Asaph and of Heman and of Jeduthun, who prophesied with lyres, with harps, and with cymbals. The list of those who did the work of their duties, uh, was Asaph, Zakkur, Joseph, Nethaniah," continue, can continue, "who prophesied under the direction of the kings."
David: Mm.
Seth: Then it says the same thing a verse later. The purpose of the priest- of these singers in the middle is not simply to offer thanks, thanks to God-
David: Mm
Seth: ... which is what I normally think of singing.
David: Right, yeah.
Seth: When I think of singing, it's like I'm responding to God's love to me.
David: Yeah.
Seth: I'm telling him that he's worthy of praise-
David: Mm
Seth: ... which I think that was happening.
David: Yeah.
Seth: But for Israel, the priestly singers represent the voice of God.
David: Oh, yeah.
Seth: They represent direction. Over and over again, David prays, or kings pray, asking what they should do about battle plans.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: "Should we attack them? Should we not attack them?" Who do they go to when they have that question? Is it a quiet moment with God in their study? No, they go to the temple, and the 4,000 musicians say, "Here's the problem. What does God say?"
David: Mm.
Seth: And as they're playing their music, God speaks to the prophets, the priestly musicians. [chuckles]
David: Yeah.
Seth: If you remember the story where, like, God sends a lying spirit-
David: Oh
Seth: ... to Ahab's 400 prophets?
David: Oh, yes, I do.
Seth: He- Ahab lives in northern Israel. This is all about southern Israel right now.
David: Okay, yeah.
Seth: And he's created another temple system.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And in the middle of that temple system is what? The same thing Israel has, 400 singing prophets-
David: Mm
Seth: ... who give him direction on what he should do. This is the way kings made decisions-
David: Yes
Seth: ... presumably, or at least Israel's kings should have made-
David: Yeah, absolutely. Yep
Seth: ... decisions. They appeal to the prophets.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So the point, one of the reasons why the priesthood is the center of Israel-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and must be at the center of Israel, is because good kings listen to God's voice and obey it.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And-
David: It reminds me of when I... When we were, when we were first talking about the story of David and the temple, y- you surprised me a couple times-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... with how you described it.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Because you described it, uh, as his impetus for wanting to build it-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... was he wanted to be closer to getting answers from God.
Seth: Yes.
David: Like, going to him-
Seth: That's right
David: ... and asking questions.
Seth: That's right.
David: And I was like, that's an interesting way to talk about the temple. Like, so the first thing I think about when I think about the tabernacle-
Seth: That's right
David: ... although in the story of Moses, that's the first use of it-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... was the tent of meeting.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And it was a place to meet God, to be with him face to face, to hear his voice, to receive instruction.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: I mean, you know, all that kind of stuff.
Seth: And think about the pillar of fire that rests on the temple.
David: Yes.
Seth: Before it was a pillar of fire that rested, or a pillar of cloud, what did it do?
David: It was a guide.
Seth: It was a guide.
David: Yeah.
Seth: It guided people through the wilderness.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So this is one of the first reasons for a temple to exist-
David: Fascinating
Seth: ... is to give guidance to God's people-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and in particular, its kings.
David: Okay. Does the inverse of that answer the question, like, why is everything messed up, is because we're not listening to God's voice?
Seth: That's, that's exactly right.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So we get... The very first story after the genealogy we're told is actually about King Saul.
David: Oh, okay.
Seth: And King Saul, we open- after the genealogy, we're really bored. Uh, [chuckles] chapter 10 opens-
David: You're bored?
Seth: Yeah, uh, [laughing]
David: I'm loving this. [laughing]
Seth: And King Saul's in the middle of a battle-
David: Okay
Seth: ... and he's losing. He-
David: You just jump in. You just jump in?
Seth: You just jump in, and all of a sudden, an arrow is shot, and he gets pierced-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and he commits suicide.
David: Right.
Seth: And then we're told why he dies this way, because he did not listen to the voice of the Lord and did not inquire of God. He didn't ask God for advice.
David: Poor Saul doesn't get an idealized version, does he? [laughing]
Seth: No, he does not. And instead of listening to God, what did he do? He, uh, consulted a necromancer.
David: He did, yes, he did.
Seth: So the very first-
David: The Witch of Endor. [laughing]
Seth: ... the Witch of Endor. The very first thing we're told, the first story we're told is, like, of a king who doesn't do it, and he dies. He s-
David: Whoa
Seth: ... he implodes. He self-destructs.
David: Right.
Seth: He commits suicide.
David: Whoa.
Seth: So think about, you're building a nation.
David: Yeah.
Seth: The chronicler wants to tell you, "What's the fastest way to kill your nation?"
David: Don't listen to God.
Seth: Yes.
David: Wow.
Seth: To not listen to God is suicide.
David: [mouth farts] That's too good.
Seth: Uh, that's, that's the-
David: Okay
Seth: ... that's the first story.
David: Man, I'm like-
Seth: [laughing]
David: ... uh, you're blowing my mind-
Seth: [laughing]
David: ... on so many levels, but one is just, like, the drama of it all.
Seth: Right?
David: You know, it's like, okay, Chronicles, genealogy, gene- battle, suicide, huge point.
Seth: [chuckles]
David: And I'm like, "Oh, my gosh, what?" [laughing]
Seth: [laughing]
David: Okay, all right, you have a, a son of David who centers Israel around the priesthood and its singers so that he can listen to the voice of God.
Seth: That's right. Can we keep it on the priesthood?
David: Okay, yep, yep.
Seth: So there's one other thing that the priesthood does.
David: Okay.
Seth: It offers sacrifices.
David: Yeah, that's what I w- that's the... where I-
Seth: That's the one you were-
David: I was expecting that.
Seth: That's what everyone's expecting.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That is also a very big part-
David: Okay
Seth: ... of what it means to center Israel's life around the priesthood.
David: Okay.
Seth: It's supposed to center its life around sacrifices, and I think more, maybe more specifically than focusing around sacrifices-
David: Mm
Seth: ... it's supposed to center its, uh, nation around the forgiveness of sins.
David: Oh, okay.
Seth: That's what sacrifice does.
David: Yeah, totally.
Seth: In a way, it, it, it offers thanks to God-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... but in particular, it's a place where forgiveness of sins is offered.
David: Mm.
Seth: And the reason I say that more in particular is when Solomon finally builds the temple, and he dedicates it, he prays over the dedication of the temple.
David: Right, yep.
Seth: And he gives us a seven-part prayer.... seven different parts, and every part of the prayer is about asking for forgiveness.
David: Oh.
Seth: If we fail and do this, if there's a famine in the land, if this happens-
David: Right
Seth: ... what, what can Israel do? They can pray towards the temple.
David: Mm.
Seth: They can ask for forgiveness, and God will hear them-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and he will respond in mercy.
David: Right.
Seth: And again, what's- why is Israel in exile? Because they, they stopped-
David: Right
Seth: ... asking God for forgiveness.
David: Yeah.
Seth: They assumed they were right in the way that they were ruling-
David: Right
Seth: ... and they were not.
David: That was what's w- so radical about Daniel, because Daniel actually repented.
Seth: Yes.
David: He was like, "Oh, we have sinned," and he repents-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and it was, like, a big deal.
Seth: That's right.
David: But Israel hasn't typically done that in certain seasons.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so forgiveness of sins. Um, I, I'm wondering what... Like, the coming back from exile-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... being in the land-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... questioning the Davidic line, questioning the temple, and then having a book that says, "You're not listening to the voice of God. That's suicide. Listen to God's voice. Remember the line of David. Remember the importance of the temple-
Seth: Mm
David: ... or the nation's gonna die."
Seth: Yeah.
David: That makes sense to me. Um, what else is on the line? 'Cause it's like, uh... And maybe I'm just skipping over the-
Seth: Yeah, yeah
David: ... exile thing too quickly.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Uh, but it's like w- is there anything else that would provide that ache in people's heart for that forgiveness that Chronicles focuses on?
Seth: I think it might be more of, like, the people have forgotten they need forgiveness.
David: Oh, okay. Yeah.
Seth: So, so they forgot they needed a son of David.
David: Oh, right!
Seth: Right? It's like they're skeptical of the son of David being, uh, being alive. What, what good does forgiveness do me when Egypt has 30,000 chariots-
David: Right
Seth: ... outside?
David: Yeah.
Seth: What good, what good is forgiveness?
David: Yeah.
Seth: What good's a- what good's a temple when what I really need is guns?
David: Okay, yeah, this is making more sense, 'cause you were saying that there were two big things that people in this time were questioning. They were questioning the line of David-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and they were questioning the need for the temple.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And focusing and centering on the priests solves both of those-
Seth: That's right
David: ... because they are the singers who prophesy the word of God, and you need a king from the line of David who will listen to them-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and do the will of God like David did-
Seth: That's right
David: ... and restore the fortunes of Israel.
Seth: That's right.
David: But they also, the priests not only sing, they also function as the mediators of sacrifice and forgiveness of sins.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And it's showing them that if they don't, uh, repent, pursue the forgiveness of sins, they're gonna go right back into exile.
Seth: That's right.
David: You can't build a nation upon sin. We saw how that worked last time.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So the priests affirm the line of David through speaking the words of God through prophecy, and they affirm the need for the temple through the sacrificial system and the need for-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... the forgiveness of sins.
Seth: Yes.
David: It reinforces both the things that they're questioning.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay, that's helpful for me.
Seth: Um, I, I feel like I'm gonna steal from a future episode.
David: Ooh.
Seth: But what's really interesting about the place the temple is built on, we get a new story in Chronicles about David's sin.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: It's, it's actually- it's- the story is the same. He has that sinful census that he takes-
David: Oh, yes
Seth: ... at the end of Samuel.
David: Right.
Seth: We get some new color for that story in Chronicles. He commits the sin. He takes a census.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: God gives him a choice of three different punishments.
David: Right.
Seth: And he chooses to throw himself on God's mercy.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And after several days of experiencing this plague that God is sending, David sees in the clouds the angel of the Lord with a sword drawn coming towards Jerusalem to kill it.
David: Whoa.
Seth: David runs out to meet this angel of the Lord-
David: Okay
Seth: ... at this, uh, threshing floor, at this l- this, this farmer's house.
David: Okay.
Seth: And God tells him to build an altar there. [laughs]
David: Okay.
Seth: He makes a sacrifice-
David: Yes
Seth: ... and he says that, "This is my fault. The reason why this is all happening-
David: Mm
Seth: ... is because-
David: I did that census thing.
Seth: I did that census thing. So, God, if you're gonna punish somebody, punish me, not Israel-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... not Jerusalem."
David: Right.
Seth: And then the angel of the Lord, uh, puts the sword back in his sheath, and he walks away.
David: Whoa.
Seth: And then that place, that threshing floor, that farmer's land, is the place where the temple's built.
David: Oh!
Seth: It's... And do you know where it is?
David: No.
Seth: Mount Moriah.
David: Oh.
Seth: The same place Abraham-
David: Yes
Seth: ... was supposed to sacrifice his son, and God stopped him.
David: Yeah.
Seth: David was gonna offer himself. God stops him, too. Uh, and it's in this place of, like, substitution-
David: Yes
Seth: ... that the nation is supposed to center itself around.
David: Because it's the place of sub- substitutionary sacrifice.
Seth: That's right. It's like when you have a king-
David: Mm
Seth: ... willing to sacrifice himself-
David: Mm
Seth: ... for the good of his people-
David: Wow
Seth: ... that's where you should build your life around.
David: I know who that sounds like. [laughs]
Seth: Uh, yeah, right, right.
David: [laughs]
Seth: And, like, think about that even as, like, symbolic of a nation. It's like-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... what do we build our nation around?
David: Mm.
Seth: Listening to God's voice and sacrificing for the sake of others.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So that's what you build your nation around, Israel.
David: Oh, man.
Seth: That's why the temple's there. [chuckles] Anyway-
David: It's l- okay, hold on.
Seth: [laughs]
David: So I gotta say that... I have to say that again. What do you build a nation around? Listening to God's voice and sacrificing yourself for others.
Seth: Yeah.
David: I mean, like, that is the New Testament.
Seth: That is right!
David: Like, that is-
Seth: That's right
David: ... just, like, so beautiful. Okay, but before I go full, full on there-
Seth: Yes
David: ... can I move on to the third part of your-
Seth: Yes
David: ... summary statement?
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay, so I think I understand. We need a king from the line of David who will center Israel on the priests, and now I understand why that's important, so that there might be, you said, peace on every side.
Seth: Yeah, rest or peace.
David: Rest or peace.
Seth: Or... Yeah.
David: Okay. What's going on there? Why that?
Seth: Well, I mean, when you are a fledgling nation-
David: Mm
Seth: ... surrounded by enemies [chuckles]
David: Yeah
Seth: ... who want to take over your land, to plunder your resources, and steal your farmland-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... what do you want as a nation?
David: To n- not have that happen? [chuckles]
Seth: Right. Uh, and what do you want for your people? You want them to experience a level of prosperity, that they don't-
David: Security.
Seth: Security.
David: Yeah.
Seth: You don't want to have them worrying if their crops are gonna get stolen by the Philistines next week.
David: Right.
Seth: You want peace on every side.
David: Right.
Seth: You want rest.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Uh, the message of Chronicles is that when kings focus their efforts around centralizing that priesthood-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... God's people are given rest. Enemies-... are defeated, frequently without ever raising a sword.
David: Right.
Seth: Prosperity grows.
David: Mm.
Seth: Like, there's more wealth in the land. Other nations just start giving money and animals and things to Israel as tribute-
David: Mm
Seth: ... uh, because they recognize the superiority of Israel.
David: Right.
Seth: They're bowing to Israel without ever, Israel ever, ever having to raise their sword.
David: Mm.
Seth: This is what it looks like when a nation listens to God-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and builds themselves around self-sacrifice and forgiveness.
David: Yeah, that makes sense.
Seth: The world responds.
David: Mm.
Seth: The world is drawn towards it. They respect you for it-
David: I see
Seth: ... and you have peace on every side.
David: And it doesn't just- it's not only talking about, um, enemies aren't crossing into our borders. What you've described is that the peace that is established at our borders actually creates peace outside of our borders.
Seth: That's right.
David: That the surrounding nations, they actually start-
Seth: That's right
David: ... to experience peace, too. That Israel's main export should be peace.
Seth: That's right, which is why David is not allowed to build the temple.
David: Oh, 'cause he was a man of war.
Seth: Because he was a man of war.
David: I remember that.
Seth: And it's inappropriate for a man whose first stories we hear about is him killing bears in the wilderness, then he's able to behead a giant-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and then he's this great general who kills his tens of thousands.
David: Yeah.
Seth: It's inappropriate for a man gifted in-
David: War
Seth: ... the necessary battle-
David: Mm
Seth: ... that had to happen to make-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... Israel established a nation, to build the place that's supposed to broker peace with the nations.
David: Right.
Seth: It's inappropriate.
David: Because the peace of God isn't earned by war.
Seth: Right.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And what's really interesting about Solomon, when he finally gets his moment in the sun, he never completes any battles.
David: Mm.
Seth: He never goes to war.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And if he grew up under his father, it's likely he never- even growing up, he never had to go to war. He never had to prove himself as a general, as a fighter-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... 'cause his father won all the battles before he was needed to.
David: Right. Yeah.
Seth: So he's a man of peace.
David: Wow! I mean, that's fascinating. I mean, it reminds me of two things. Obviously, I- probably, one is, I think peace on every side goes back to Joshua.
Seth: Yes, that's right.
David: Right?
Seth: That's right.
David: Yeah, and like, they're coming in, Israel's coming in after Moses dies. They come into the Promised Land, and they have to go to war, and they have to drive out the Canaanites, but even sometimes they don't ever have to lift a sword, like at Jericho and other places.
Seth: Yeah, that's right.
David: Like, they don't have to do anything. They just trust God. They listen to his voice. "Should we go here? What should we do?"
Seth: Mm.
David: And God brings peace and victory, um, so that he could establish a nation, and it could grow and export peace.
Seth: That's right.
David: Then it also reminds me of, obviously, the Garden of Eden, where it's this place of peace, this place of rest, and it's marked by this Sabbath rhythm of the seventh day, where there is rest. You know, on the seventh day, God rested.
Seth: Mm, yeah.
David: And there's, like, this perpetual rest that was supposed to permeate the Garden of Eden, and Chronicles starts with the name Adam.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And I'm like, am I supposed to have those things in my head?
Seth: You, you totally are.
David: Okay.
Seth: You totally are.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Well, one, multiple times, David seems to be a new type of Moses figure.
David: Okay.
Seth: He even talks to Solomon as if he's Joshua. One of the most famous things-
David: Mm
Seth: ... that Moses says to Joshua is, "Be strong and courageous." David says the exact same words to Solomon.
David: Oh, that's cool.
Seth: Uh-
David: And yet Solomon doesn't go and be strong and courageous by doing what Joshua did-
Seth: That's right
David: ... and going to war. He does something else.
Seth: Yeah. [chuckles] I was reading one commentator. He said, "What Solomon does is sapiential imperialism." [laughing]
David: What on earth does that mean?
Seth: He said, instead of raising a sword, he conquers with wisdom.
David: Oh, is that what sapiential means?
Seth: Sapiential means like-
David: Okay
Seth: ... related to wisdom.
David: And then so-
Seth: Uh
David: ... imperialism, taking over
Seth: Imperialism of wisdom.
David: The imperialism of wisdom.
Seth: Um, and I was like, interesting. Uh... [chuckles]
David: That's the headiest way to say it. [laughing]
Seth: I just appreciated it. [laughing]
David: You would. That's good. Okay, and so is the main point of there being peace on every side... I think I, I think I can get confused-
Seth: Yes
David: ... with peace on every side. Uh, is the main point of having peace on every side the protection of Israel, or the founding and expansion of, like, a new world order? What's, what's Chronicles' take?
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: 'Cause I know both are true.
Seth: I think whenever we get to Solomon-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... as I said, he's never explicitly critiqued.
David: Mm.
Seth: He's supposed to represent Israel at its best-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... at its highest ideal. You have a son of David listening to the voice-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... of God. He's built, uh, the place for listening to God right in the middle of the entire country. The nations flock to him.
David: Because of his sapiential-
Seth: Right
David: ... imperialism. [chuckles]
Seth: Multiple Gentiles are mentioned.
David: Yep.
Seth: They're converting-
David: Okay
Seth: ... to faith in the God of Israel.
David: I see.
Seth: They're giving him m- this is a picture-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... of the world as it's meant to be.
David: So the answer is-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... at the, the high point of the book of Chronicles, its ideal for what peace on every side looks like-
Seth: That's right
David: ... is not just about Israel, it's about the nations.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: Yeah.
David: That's helpful. Okay, so we have-
Seth: Which, by the way-
David: Okay, yeah, almost there
Seth: ... uh, is the original hope for Israel. When God-
David: Yes
Seth: ... came to Abraham-
David: Yes
Seth: ... he said, like, "I'm going to bless you so that all the world-
David: All the nations
Seth: ... can be blessed through you."
David: Mm-hmm. Right.
Seth: And so Solomon is doing that. The whole world is being blessed by the reign of a son of David who listens to God's voice.
David: Yeah. Man, that's so good. [gentle music] So this is the, this is your summation of Chronicles. [laughing]
Seth: [laughing]
David: It's very helpful. Uh, there's w- uh, the chronicler is writing to a people who have returned from exile and are questioning, uh, the need for the line of David and the need for the temple, and the chronicler is like, "Sit down, kid. I'm gonna tell you the story of our people-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... in an idealized way, to show you one main point, that w- you need a king from the line of David that will center Israel around the priesthood-
Seth: Mm
David: ... so that there can be peace on every side."
Seth: Yeah.
David: ... I mean, that is helpful.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Okay.
Seth: And what happens is, so you get the genealogy-
David: Yep
Seth: ... proves that same point-
David: Yes
Seth: ... by pointing everything towards the middle. You get the, David rising to power, the Alexander Hamilton-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... moment, where he's-
David: Here's, here's the King of David.
Seth: And he basically prepares Solomon-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... to inherit the ideal kingdom.
David: Right, and he, and he gets there by listening to the voice of God.
Seth: That's right.
David: Yeah, yeah.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: Um, and then when he doesn't-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... listen to the voice of God, he's immediately punished for that.
David: Mm.
Seth: He repents. He changes-
David: Yep
Seth: ... and the kingdom continues to expand and grow.
David: Forgiveness of sin-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... is important, the priesthood-
Seth: That's right
David: ... is important. Okay.
Seth: Solomon, he is here as the ideal of what Israel could be.
David: Is that the end of 1 Chronicles?
Seth: That's the, uh-
David: The-
Seth: 2 Chronicles 1 to 9-
David: Okay, got it
Seth: ... is the, the ideal reign of Solomon.
David: Okay.
Seth: And then Solomon dies, right?
David: Okay, yep.
Seth: 'Cause everyone knows Solomon dies.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um, and then the rest of Chronicles, 2 Chronicles, chapters 10 to 36, are case studies-
David: Mm
Seth: ... in Israel, as other kings, proving that central point.
David: Mm.
Seth: As kings either reject the Davidic line or fail to center the priesthood-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... Israel dissolves.
David: Okay.
Seth: It self-implodes. It commits suicide-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and starts to eat itself.
David: I see.
Seth: And as kings either obey or disobey, they're rewarded or punished within the space of their lifetime.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And that's the whole rest of the book. The majority of 2 Chronicles is proving to us the main point the author's saying-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... that if you don't focus yourself around the temple or a son of David, Israel implodes.
David: Okay. And so when you, when we talk about Chronicles being an idealized retelling-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... um, we kind of mean two things, it sounds like, and I mean, it means one thing.
Seth: Yeah.
David: But so one would be, like, this ideal David and this ideal Solomon-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... where we're gonna gloss over most of the bad details-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and focus on the good-
Seth: Yep
David: ... in order to, to show you what God intended Israel to be.
Seth: Yep.
David: And then on the back end, ideal seems to mean that in a perfect universe, it's a zero-and-one game, that when you obey, good things happen-
Seth: Mm
David: ... when you disobey, bad things happen.
Seth: That's right.
David: When you listen, good things happen. When you don't listen, bad things happen.
Seth: Yeah.
David: When you honor the temple, good things happen, and when you don't, bad things happen.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And it's ideal in, in the sense that it's analog like that.
Seth: That's right.
David: It's, like, proverbial.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And if you go back to the book of Kings, you'll have kind of the opposite because the focus is on mercy.
David: Yes. It's so much more gray.
Seth: So Ahab-
David: Ahab makes me so confused sometimes.
Seth: Right. Ahab will commit a sin-
David: Right
Seth: ... he'll be told that God will destroy his whole family.
David: Yeah.
Seth: But 10 chapters goes by before any of that happens.
David: Right, and in fact, good things happen to him.
Seth: Good things happen to him.
David: And you're like, "What in the world?"
Seth: 'Cause the point is to show mercy-
David: Long suffering
Seth: ... in the middle of judgment.
David: Yeah.
Seth: But Chronicles teaches us that when you listen to the voice of God-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... battles are won.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Farms don't get burned by Philistines. Like, w- tribute starts coming in from the nations.
David: Yeah.
Seth: People start believing in the god of Yahweh for the first time.
David: Mm.
Seth: Like, that's what happens when kings listen.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And then wants to- and the chronicler wants to prove that over and over and over again to this new generation rebuilding Israel.
David: Yeah. This is totally getting behind in the text.
Seth: Yes.
David: But kind of my last big question, and then I wanna get to how is all this about Jesus-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... is, um, what do you think that the chronicler's aim was, his hope for this book was for that audience? What did he- what would he hope that they would do next?
Seth: Yeah.
David: What would obedience to Chronicles look like in their context?
Seth: I think, I think Chronicles, um... It's interesting, you can't write the book of Chronicles without having some pretty significant access to the royal records.
David: Okay.
Seth: So you have genealogy stretching back hundreds of years.
David: Yeah.
Seth: You have books. There's only one place you keep books in ancient Israel.
David: Mm.
Seth: It's in the temple.
David: Mm.
Seth: It's in the, the, the palatial structure. The only people who had access to documents like this were royal historians.
David: Okay.
Seth: So the chronicler is a royal historian-
David: Mm
Seth: ... speaking to the leadership of Israel.
David: Okay.
Seth: Right?
David: That's cool.
Seth: Yeah. Uh, so like, that's, that's-
David: What would a royal historian be like today? Like, what would be-
Seth: Um
David: ... our analog? Like, would it be like a, a, a, a political biography writer or-
Seth: It might be, but I think it would be popular- uh, so since everybody reads and since-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... books are so common, everybody can, anybody can write history-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... provided you have the credentials-
David: Yeah, and the information
Seth: ... and the expert and the information to do so.
David: Yeah.
Seth: But, like, he's a pretty privileged person to have access to all this information.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: But any history is making a point-
David: Right
Seth: ... about what to do or what not to do.
David: Right, and since he's a royal historian, his is very much focused on the activity and his hope for the kings, the, the-
Seth: Yeah, the next, the next generation of leadership in Israel.
David: Yeah. Okay.
Seth: Obviously, this has import for, like, regular, regular-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... guys and girls in Israel.
David: Right.
Seth: They should listen to the voice of God.
David: Right.
Seth: They should go to the temple. They should build their lives around, uh, forgiveness and self-sub- substitution.
David: Mm.
Seth: Uh-
David: But it's also a tale for kings.
Seth: It's a tale for kings.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, do you wanna build a nation like David did?
David: Mm.
Seth: Do you wanna experience something of like what Solomon did? Well, then we need to go back to the vision of our founding fathers-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and build a nation. [chuckles]
David: It re- it reminds me of the, of the book of Acts, where it's like-
Seth: Okay
David: ... Luke writes it for Theophilus-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... this wealthy guy who wants to know about Jesus and the Church-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and what's going on, what's the story.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And he tells him the history of the Church, but for a, a, a purpose-
Seth: Right
David: ... to communicate to this probably Gentile, probably wealthy person, um, the story of Jesus.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And it's, it's a helpful way for me to think about Chronicles, is you have this royal historian writing, you know, who's been maybe, maybe commissioned by a king-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... to be like, "Hey, what's our people's story?" And he's like, [snaps fingers] "I can use this as an opportunity to-
Seth: Mm
David: ... tell you the, the, what you need to hear right now." [chuckles]
Seth: Yes.
David: And so the hope of the book of Chronicles in its day would've been to turn the hearts of Israel's leaders to, well, look for and install the King of David-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... protect the temple, uh, center themselves around the priests.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And as they do that, trust God to do the rest.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: That's the... Yeah, that's the message of the book of Chronicles.
David: Okay, that's helpful. All right, so when we look at-... and we haven't said this yet, actually.
Seth: Okay.
David: Chronicles is the end of the Hebrew ordering of the Bible.
Seth: Yes, this is the very, very last book of the Hebrew ordering of the Bible.
David: Yes.
Seth: Uh-
David: So, like, if, if you had a, if you had a Hebrew Bible in your Old Testament, you would go s- Chronicles, Matthew. [chuckles]
Seth: That's right.
David: And so it's a fascinating question then to ask, what... w- like, when we, when we look at Chronicles, w- what does it make us expect, you know-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... for the Messiah-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... for-
Seth: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
David: ... for Jesus to come and fill? How is Jesus... I mean, obviously, I'm gonna answer the question as I say it-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... but, well, we can unpack it. How is Jesus the King of David- [laughing]
Seth: [laughing]
David: ... who centers Israel around a priesthood-
Seth: Right
David: ... so that there's peace on every side?
Seth: Yeah. I mean, biologically-
David: Right
Seth: ... uh, Jesus is descended from David. [chuckles]
David: Yeah.
Seth: He's a son of David, so-
David: It is, it is fascinating. You, like, open up your, your Hebrew Old Testament, your Hebrew Bible-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and at the end, you, you'd be like, "Okay, here's Chronicles,"
Seth: And-
David: "And I'm gonna... " And it starts with a genealogy. Okay, let me turn to w- my New Testament. Genealogy again!
Seth: Yeah.
David: And this one points to Jesus.
Seth: We talked in our Matthew episodes about how the life of Jesus maps onto the history of Israel.
David: Yes.
Seth: Right?
David: Right.
Seth: And I think Matthew takes a lot of his q- cues from the Book of Chronicles.
David: Mm.
Seth: And I think the reason why Chronicles, and we can talk about that in a second, but-
David: Okay
Seth: ... the reason why Chronicles is at the end of the Hebrew ordering of the Bible-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... because it's a summary of Israel's entire history-
David: Mm
Seth: ... functionally.
David: Right.
Seth: It begins in Adam.
David: Right.
Seth: And the Book of Chronicles, the last words of the Book of Chronicles are when King Cyrus sends Israel out of exile, back into Israel-
David: Right
Seth: ... to do what? Rebuild their temple, to refocus their efforts-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... around the priesthood.
David: And they're like-
Seth: Um
David: ... "Okay, that's where we are now."
Seth: That's where we are now.
David: Yeah. [chuckles]
Seth: So, like, the end of the book tells you also the main point of the book, which is you have a, a king, a foreign king-
David: Mm
Seth: ... acting like a son of David.
David: 'Cause he's listening to God's voice.
Seth: He's listening to God's voice-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and he's sending Israel back to do what? To rebuild their temple.
David: Yep.
Seth: To reinstitute and center their nation around the priesthood.
David: Right.
Seth: He's acting like a good King of David, even though he's a Gentile-
David: Mm
Seth: ... which is very fascinating.
David: Yeah, 'cause when you read Ezra-Nehemiah, they're very focused on finding and identifying the real priestly line-
Seth: That's right
David: ... and reinstating it.
Seth: That's right.
David: And so, yeah, that's fascinating.
Seth: Uh, but yeah, and then so we turn over to Matthew, though-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and Matthew structures his book-
David: Oh
Seth: ... the same way Chronicles does. It begins with a genealogy.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Um, and then it ends with Jesus saying, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
David: Right.
Seth: Therefore go, making disciples of all nations, uh, teaching them to obey my commandments."
David: Jesus is acting like Cyrus.
Seth: That's right.
David: [chuckles]
Seth: And Matthew is very intentional with how he words it-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... to make sure you know that Jesus is quoting Cyrus.
David: Mm.
Seth: In the same way that Israel's supposed to go back and build the temple-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... we, as God's new generation of believers, are called to go out and build temples in others-
David: Mm
Seth: ... by teaching them to do what? Obey God's commands, listen to His voice-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and experience the rest that comes from building, not a kingdom, but a kingdom not of this world.
David: Right.
Seth: Temples that reside in us.
David: Okay, hold on. [laughing]
Seth: [laughing]
David: 'Cause there's so- I'm gonna say something-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and it feels heretical.
Seth: Okay. [laughing]
David: Which would probably mean it's just good news.
Seth: [laughing] Get the comments ready. [laughing]
David: Get, get the YouTube comments ready. Um, no, but... Okay, so obviously, Jesus is the, the king from the line of David-
Seth: Yes
David: ... that Israel's been waiting for-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... that Chronicles sets us up to long for and know that we need. And Jesus is like, "I'm here. The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. I am the Son of David." Okay, that is so clear-
Seth: Yes
David: ... easy-peasy. But then how does he center it around priests, when most of his, um, en- engagement with the temple system is rather negative?
Seth: Right.
David: But it, it- what you've just said, like, blows my mind, 'cause he's gonna form a kingdom that's centered around priests, but like Peter and others tell us, it's the priesthood of all believers-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that everyone-
Seth: For all priests
David: ... who submits themselves to King Jesus, the Son of David, becomes a priest-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and is then able to listen to God's voice, sing it out into the world, and build little temples, outposts of God's kingdom-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... all over the world, until there's peace on every side.
Seth: Yeah.
David: I'm just like, that is just too cool. [laughing]
Seth: [laughing]
David: I love that.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Oh.
Seth: Um-
David: I mean, what else are you seeing there?
Seth: Um, are you- do you have a question about Jesus's, His interactions with the temple?
David: Uh, not... N- now I do. [chuckles]
Seth: Well, you, you said-
David: [laughing]
Seth: ... it was like, "Well, Jesus is super critical of the temple-
David: Yeah
David: ... " And like, I was just like, it didn't seem like He was, like, super, um, excited about the tribe of Levi when He shows up.
Seth: Right. So which is what- I chose the word carefully.
David: Mm.
Seth: It's, like, not centered around the temple-
David: Yep
Seth: ... centered around the priesthood-
David: The priesthood
Seth: ... and in particular, the voice of God in-
David: Yes
Seth: ... the temple singers, and the forgiveness offered in sacrifices.
David: Right, the, those are the two primary functions-
Seth: Right
David: ... of the priesthood that Chronicles focuses on.
Seth: Right, because those are the things that Israel, more important than the temple, those are the things that Israel must focus on.
David: Listening to God's voice and forgiving sins.
Seth: Right, which is why when God... When David says, "I wanna build a house for you," God's like, "I've never asked for that.
David: Mm.
Seth: "I don't live in houses."
David: "Building a house? I, I can do these things."
Seth: "I, I exist in the highest heavens. I, I don't need this thing."
David: Yeah.
Seth: Building and rebuilding the temple was an incidental feature of listening to God's voice-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and centering a kingdom around forgiveness.
David: Right.
Seth: And in a very, like, common sense way, if you're building a nation, you want a symbol of what your nation is all about.
David: Yeah, totally.
Seth: You want a center- You want a grand symbol-
David: Right
Seth: ... proving that you have built yourself around the forgiveness of sins-
David: Right
Seth: ... the substitution of a king for his people, and listening to the voice of God.
David: Right, and America-
Seth: And the temple provides that.
David: Yeah. America wants, uh, the Statue of Liberty.
Seth: Right.
David: Bring me your huddled masses.
Seth: That's ex-
David: We're a melting pot.
Seth: That's right.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That- so you want a symbol like that.
David: Right.
Seth: So in, in one sense, the temple is good. It's a symbol-
David: Yes
Seth: ... but it's a symbol of what God truly desires.
David: And if it, and if the symbol becomes the focus-
Seth: Right
David: ... you, it obfuscates-
Seth: That's right
David: ... the real thing that you need to be seeing, which is listening to the voice of God-
Seth: Right
David: ... and offering forgiveness of sins through sacrifice.
Seth: Which is exactly Jesus's critique of the temple system of the Pharisees.
David: Yes.
Seth: "You focus so much on the temple, you've forgotten justice.
David: Mm.
Seth: You've forgotten mercy. You for-
David: "You're not hearing God's voice."
Seth: You're not hearing God's voice.
David: Right.
Seth: And then what does He do as the ultimate act of-
Seth: ... that builds a new temple. He sacrifices himself.
David: Goes to the threshing floor like David.
Seth: Yeah, he does. And like, God- yeah, and crazily enough, like twice, God prevents Abraham the father from killing his son-
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: -and David, the father of a nation-
David: Right
Seth: ... from killing himself for the others, until God himself comes-
David: Right
Seth: ... to sacrifice himself for his people to build the final temple in all of us.
David: Right, and whenever people call out, "Oh, save yourself. Come off the tree. Do another Abraham moment"-
Seth: Yeah.
David: -he doesn't.
Seth: He doesn't.
David: Yeah, he dies.
Seth: Yeah.
David: He sa- he, uh, he offers the sacrifice for his nation, like David said he would, he would do.
Seth: Yes.
David: Jesus actually does it and makes us priests-
Seth: [chuckles]
David: -to bring peace on every side.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Oh, it's too good.
Seth: The, uh... You can also see the genealogy-
David: Okay
Seth: ... as communicating the same fact, that we're all supposed to be a kingdom of priests.
David: Oh, how?
Seth: Um, so whenever God spoke to Moses, and they first built the Tabernacle-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... he's- th- there was this hope that the entire nation would be a holy nation-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and a kingdom of priests unto our God.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That was a hope-
David: Right
Seth: ... of what Israel would be.
David: Right. Peter's quoting-
Seth: Yes
David: ... God talking to Moses-
Seth: That's right
David: ... when he calls us a nation of priests.
Seth: And so you have this genealogy where you have past Israel, present Israel-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... the kings of Israel, the tribes of Israel, all huddled around and, in a sense, protecting the priesthood.
David: Mm.
Seth: And the protection of the temple is actually a priestly task. Only certain types of Levites were actually called to protect and guard the temple.
David: That's right. Yes.
Seth: But the genealogy's structured in such a way that it seems like past, present, kings, peasants are all protecting-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and preserving the institution of God's forgiveness-
David: Yes
Seth: ... and listening to God's voice.
David: Like a fortified mountain.
Seth: Like a fortified mountain.
David: Like a, like a mountain's feet protect its peak.
Seth: Yes.
David: All of Israel were pr- was protecting the priesthood.
Seth: The holy nation.
David: Mm.
Seth: The kingdom of priests.
David: So yeah, yeah, we've been set up for this.
Seth: Yes.
David: Yeah. Okay. Man, that is cool.
Seth: That's the book of Chronicles.
David: Okay, that's the book of Chronicles. It's, yeah, a king of- [laughs]
Seth: [laughs]
David: ... a, a son of David.
Seth: The son of David centers Israel around the priesthood. God's people get rest.
David: That's really helpful. I love that.
Seth: Next episode, I'd like to, like, chart David's rise to power-
David: Okay
Seth: ... and, like, the uncritiqued reign of Solomon and talk about that a little bit more.
David: Okay.
Seth: And then there might be another episode where we walk through some of the case studies-
David: Oh, yes
Seth: ... of kings failing and succeeding to center the kingdom around the priesthood.
David: Well, great.
Seth: And then I also wanna talk about, a little bit more about Cyrus and-
David: Oh, yeah
Seth: ... uh, why Matthew ends his gospel the same way Chronicles does.
David: Yeah, that, uh, that's very fascinating.
Seth: Why Jesus quotes Cyrus.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Uh, yeah.
David: That's fascinating. Okay, well, I'm excited to keep going through Chronicles with you, and hope you guys can continue to join us as we go through Chronicles.
Seth: Yes, please.
David: Thank you for, uh, jumping in to this, as Seth said, the, uh, 65-chapter black hole in his Bible. [laughs]
Seth: [laughs] Yeah.
David: Um, hopefully, it won't be that for you any longer. So continue to walk through this book with us. Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you next time. [upbeat music]
Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel creates short films, devotionals, and podcasts like this one. Everything we make is free because of generous supporters like you. To see our resources, visit spokengospel.com or subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. See you next time. [upbeat music]