Seth: [electronic music] [pages flip] And what Jesus says is, "That temple is me."
David: Right.
Seth: "I am the representative of God's covenant."
David: Right.
Seth: "You come to me, my crucified body and resurrected body. That's who you come to. That's the symbol of the repaired relationship with God. I am the symbol of God's covenant blessing for all the world. I am its new king."
Intro: [electronic music] Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a ministry that's dedicated to speaking the gospel out of every corner of scripture. In Luke 24, Jesus told his disciples that every part of the Bible was about him. So each week, hosts David and Seth work through a passage of scripture to see how it's all about Jesus and his good news. Let's jump in. [electronic music]
David: Well, welcome everyone to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. We are continuing in the Book of Haggai today, and we'll wrap it up.
Seth: That's right.
David: We looked at three of the five oracles in Haggai last week, looking at God's presence, providing for his people, and this week we're looking at the other two oracles, talking about leadership and the shaking of the nations.
Seth: That's, that's right.
David: So how you feeling today, Seth?
Seth: I mean, I'm feeling pre-
David: You gonna be like a world shaker?
Seth: I'm gonna get... I'm gonna be a world shaker today.
David: [laughs]
Seth: Shake up the, shake up the nations-
David: Shake up the nations
Seth: ... with my, with my leadership. [laughs]
David: That's right. This podcast took a turn.
Seth: Yeah.
David: We're a leadership podcast now. [laughs]
Seth: Tom Collins. What's the, what is his name?
David: Who?
Seth: John Collins? No.
David: From the Bible Project?
Seth: No. The, the, Tony Robbins.
David: Tony Robbins. [laughs]
Seth: [laughs]
David: And John Collins.
Seth: I know.
David: That is hilarious. Tony Robbins.
Seth: That's where we're headed.
David: Yeah. Do you know I, I once performed-
Seth: I think I did know that
David: ... on a stage with Tony Robbins?
Seth: I think that's the only reason I know the name-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... Tony Robbins, is because you were on stage with Tony Robbins.
David: That was an experience.
Seth: I'm sure it was.
David: Never again [laughs]. I mean-
Seth: That's exactly what we're talking about today.
David: World shaken. Okay.
Seth: Um-
David: So get, get us back up, you know, 'cause it's been a week. Get me, get me back up to speed with Haggai, the temple-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... everything like that. Where are we in time? What's on the line?
Seth: So last week we kinda retold the whole history of God's people around the temple-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and what the temple represented.
David: Right.
Seth: So I'm kind of interested in actually retelling the whole history of God's people, but from the perspective of the leaders of God's people.
David: Okay.
Seth: Because I think that would help, be helpful as we go into what Haggai wants to say in the second point.
David: Love it.
Seth: So let's start in the Garden this time.
David: Okay.
Seth: Like, all the way back.
David: Yes.
Seth: Um-
David: We started in Exodus and then went to the Garden last time.
Seth: Right.
David: Yep.
Seth: God has a plan for a people-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... his people, his humanity, humanity as a category.
David: Right.
Seth: And that begins by deputizing two leaders, Adam and Eve.
David: Yes.
Seth: A king-
David: A king and a queen
Seth: ... king and a queen who are meant to obey God's laws-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... and th- through their leadership, their entire generation, their entire genealogy will experience the life and abundance of God.
David: Yep.
Seth: Right?
David: They're gonna be fruitful and multiply, and their little princes and princesses will have dominion over the world-
Seth: Right
David: ... and bring abundance to all of creation.
Seth: But when the leaders of God fail, they are removed from the experience of that life and blessing.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: However, God still promises that a future leader will come and undo the destruction caused by the serpent, the other-
David: Oh, I see
Seth: ... counter leader, right?
David: So what you're saying is, I've never thought of it this way, what you're saying, i- if you view Adam and Eve as two leaders-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and they're about to have all these children-
Seth: Yes
David: ... you know, then their corporate failure as leaders, um, ended up cursing their children that weren't yet born, but they would've been-
Seth: Mm
David: ... in the Garden. But the leader failure of Adam and Eve led to a kingdom-wide, family-wide, I don't know, deportation or exile-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... for all their kids, for humanity
Seth: ... like, humanity as a category-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... has now been no longer allowed to experience the life-giving presence of God-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... because of the failure of its leadership.
David: Okay. Yeah.
Seth: But there will be a leader who comes.
David: Okay, but you mentioned something else too-
Seth: Yeah, yeah
David: ... about, um, Satan as a other leader, the snake as the-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... as the other leader.
Seth: So we are introduced to this character of the serpent in the Garden-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... who offers another form of wisdom-
David: Mm
Seth: ... another way to rule themselves and to rule in the world.
David: Different way of leadership.
Seth: A different way of leadership.
David: One, I guess, not under the-
Seth: Af-
David: ... ultimate leadership of God.
Seth: Right. That's right. And-
David: Be your own leader
Seth: ... be your own leader.
David: Okay.
Seth: And so he tempts them with that, and they choose that, and he-
David: Ends up becoming their slave master.
Seth: That's right.
David: Yeah.
Seth: He becomes the leader of those who refuse to be led by God.
David: Ooh, that's good.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Stitch that on a pillow.
Seth: That, that's a, that's a... [laughs]
David: That's, you sh-
Seth: Satan-
David: Satan's the leader of-
Seth: [laughs]
David: ... those refusing to be led by God. What an interesting pillow Grandma has on her couch. [laughs]
Seth: [laughs]
David: Okay. But, but you said there's another leader coming.
Seth: Eve is promised-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... that one of her sons would crush the one who has been cursed by God. And-
David: Yes
Seth: ... that leader will bring back God's people into his presence-
David: Right
Seth: ... one day.
David: We need a new leader.
Seth: We need a new leader.
David: Okay.
Seth: And so the history of Israel goes on, and we're introduced to a-
David: To a lot of new leaders. [laughs]
Seth: ... to a whole bunch of new leaders. Abraham, and Moses is a pretty interesting one here.
David: Mm.
Seth: He starts not just, you know, there's a leader of a people or a leader of a category, he becomes the first king of a, of a people, a nation.
David: Mm.
Seth: He's the king of Israel, the governor of Israel, the leader of a nation constituted by God in a covenant relationship with God.
David: Right.
Seth: A national treaty with God. God promises to be their provider, to give them safety, protection from enemies, to not just protect them in battle, but to provide for their land, provided that Moses a- as a leader-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... continues to lead his people to follow God and his commands-
David: Right
Seth: ... and the commands of his covenant.
David: Okay.
Seth: Right?
David: Yeah.
Seth: But-The leaders of God's people, Aaron and Moses, both fail those commands-
David: Right
Seth: ... in one way or another.
David: Yeah.
Seth: God's people are lost in the wilderness as a result of their failure of leadership-
David: Mm
Seth: ... until a new generations of leader pop up. Joshua, and he's really important for this one-
David: Okay
Seth: ... because we have another man named Joshua-
David: Right, the priest
Seth: ... in the book. A high priest named Joshua.
David: Uh-huh.
Seth: Joshua's told to be strong, to be courageous, to not fear. God will provide peace for them, for all of God's people, through his leadership.
David: Yeah.
Seth: If he's strong, if he's courageous, if he goes to battle, lest God fights on his behalf, God will give him the nation-
David: I see
Seth: ... again, right?
David: Yes. However- [laughs] They get the land, then there's some kings, and, or judges first.
Seth: Judges first. Their failure of leadership leads to increasing chaos. The kings come, increasing chaos.
David: Ah.
Seth: But also interesting fact, David and Solomon are both kind of the idea or the category of the leaders of God's people-
David: Mm
Seth: ... being pictures of what will happen to the rest of God's people is set up really clearly. When David fails with Bathsheba, the whole kingdom falls apart.
David: Right.
Seth: And then Solomon, when he takes the throne, is told very, very explicitly that, "If you follow my commands, Solomon-
David: Right
Seth: ... the kingdom will be blessed."
David: Yes.
Seth: So there's this reinforcement of the fact that the leadership of God's people determines the fate of the nation.
David: Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth: Right? And so that project with the kings doesn't go quite, quite so well.
David: No, it doesn't. It went, it went wrong about 70 different ways.
Seth: 70 different ways. [laughs]
David: [laughs] So-
Seth: 70. I see, I see what you did there. Until Jeconiah, the last King of Israel-
David: Okay
Seth: ... the grandfather of Zerubbabel.
David: Okay.
Seth: And one of the last things we're told about Jeconiah, or not the last thing, but what an interesting-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... thing we are told about Jeconiah is found in the Book of Isaiah.
David: Mm.
Seth: And God removes Jeconiah like a signet ring or a sealing ring.
David: Okay.
Seth: And a, a signet ring is a symbol of authority.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And so what like kings would stamp decrees with.
David: De- yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth: That was their, that was their, um-
David: You would go and kiss their ring as a symbol-
Seth: Yes
David: ... of fealty.
Seth: Right, it's a symbol of their royal authority.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So the history of God's people before the Babylonian exile is one of increasingly failed leadership until God says, "Fine. I will take responsibility of following the covenant away from my people."
David: Mm.
Seth: "I remove the signet ring. No longer is royal authority invested in these people. No longer will the leader be able to bring my covenant blessing. No longer will my leader be able to bring back the blessing that was once in the garden."
David: Whoa.
Seth: That's what happens when God's removing royal authority from the Davidic line in the exile.
David: Okay. So the question then becomes, like, who then-
Seth: Right
David: ... is able to lead the people of God back into a covenant relationship with Him?
Seth: That's exactly right.
David: Last episode, we talked where.
Seth: Right.
David: It was the temple. But now who becomes-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... the issue.
Seth: In the temple episode, we talked about how the temple's where the relationship with God could be repaired.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: That's where the covenant was repaired. You offered a sacrifice, covenant was repaired. Similarly, a king was how the covenant was enacted. Without a king, you can't have a covenant.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Covenants were made between two kings.
David: I see.
Seth: Right.
David: Yahweh, the king, and Israel's king.
Seth: And, yes, Moses or Joshua-
David: David, yeah
Seth: ... or David-
David: Okay
Seth: ... or whoever it is. Covenants are made between kings.
David: Yes.
Seth: That would've probably been helpful to say up front.
David: [laughs]
Seth: But, like, that's the-
David: That's helpful, yeah, yeah. [laughs]
Seth: That is the idea. Covenants are made between kings. So if you don't have a king-
David: Mm
Seth: ... royal authority is divested-
David: Okay
Seth: ... from anybody in Israel's family line.
David: That's super helpful, because I was gonna ask the question, like, what's the pr- like, the fixation on leadership?
Seth: Yeah.
David: I think especially for a Western individualist.
Seth: Right.
David: I'm like, how dare you-
Seth: Say it
David: ... seal my fate with some loser-
Seth: Right
David: ... president or something.
Seth: Yeah, but citizens don't make treaties with-
David: Kings
Seth: ... kings.
David: Foreign kings.
Seth: That's right. Only kings-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... make treaties with kings.
David: That's right.
Seth: So God the King entered a treaty with-
David: I see
Seth: ... the King of Israel-
David: Yes
Seth: ... Moses.
David: Right.
Seth: And from that time on, or the tre- Adam and Eve.
David: Adam and Eve.
Seth: And, and-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... that's, that's the way it's always been.
David: Yeah, that's the way it's always been.
Seth: So if royal ath- authority's been divested of any human-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... how can God make a treaty with his people? How can God make a covenant with his people-
David: Right
Seth: ... again?
David: So Israel has no king, therefore it can have no covenant.
Seth: Right, has no temple, therefore it can have no place to repair the covenant or for God's place to dwell, so.
David: Yeah, okay. I get what's on the line.
Seth: You get what's on the line.
David: Yes. I, in Haggai's day, there's no king to facilitate a new covenant between God and his people-
Seth: That's right
David: ... to renegotiate the terms of the covenant.
Seth: Right.
David: And so who is going to lead that-
Seth: Right
David: ... new treaty ceremony between-
Seth: Right
David: ... Israel and her God?
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: So which is why it's really fascinating that Haggai opens up with a man named Joshua, one of g- Israel's old kings, the one that was really instrumental in establishing Israel in its own land for the first time.
David: The successor of Moses.
Seth: A successor of Moses.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And Zerubbabel, the grandson of the last king of Israel.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And importantly, a descendant of King David.
David: Right.
Seth: God promised that he would never forsake David's covenant.
David: Right.
Seth: He would always have a son on the throne of Israel. So perhaps if God's people return to the land, if the temple's rebuilt, this new Joshua and this new David, maybe-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... God would reinstate his covenant once again.
David: Mm.
Seth: We have all the pieces-
David: Right
Seth: ... to make it happen.
David: That's right. But what does God think about that?
Seth: You know, yeah, yeah. [laughs]
David: Yeah, so I'd be curious to hear what's Haggai gonna say that God's thinking about all these pieces being in place.
Seth: And I guess that's where we jump into the Book of Haggai. [gentle music] Okay, so all the pieces are in place. You've got two potential new leaders to facilitate the establishment of the covenant with God once again. You've got Joshua, the high priest. You've got Zerubbabel, the son of David. But-
David: You know, that's at least their delegation is showing up. Of course, they're not necessarily leading the people the best way when Haggai hits the scene. We talked about their failure to rebuild the temple last time.
Seth: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
David: But what I think the other side is now we need God's delegation to say God has a side of the treaty, too, right? Is he, is he about to divest this authority to Joshua and Zerubbabel?
Seth: Is he gonna give it back to-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... yeah, so he-
David: Is he gonna allow them to be the, the king?
Seth: Right.
David: Okay.
Seth: So then he-
David: I'm also... Sorry. I'm, I'm also-
Seth: Yeah, yeah
David: ... just still thinking like he threw the ring away, right? Like-
Seth: Right
David: ... he broke up with him.
Seth: Yeah
David: Like, where... Did he-
Seth: [laughs] He broke up with him [laughs]
David: Yeah. Did he keep the ring? Like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... so he, yeah, he threw his granddad's ring away. Is he gonna give it back to Zerubbabel? I'm just, uh, these are questions I'm asking.
Seth: Well, and I think that tension is the tension you're supposed to feel-
David: Okay
Seth: ... when you read the Bible-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... right? It's like God said he would never forsake his people entirely.
David: But then he-
Seth: He would ne-
David: Right
Seth: ... but then he did it.
David: But then he chucked the ring.
Seth: Then he-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... yeah, so, like, what does that, what does that mean? How long is that supposed to last?
David: Right.
Seth: So 70 years after exile, here we are.
David: Okay.
Seth: As we said last time, Ha- Haggai has two buckets of prophecy. Bucket number one is this critique of the failure to rebuild the temple-
David: Right
Seth: ... and the promise of God's spirit and God's presence.
David: Yeah, and oracles one, two, and four were in that bucket.
Seth: Yes, but oracles three and five go in bucket number two, which is this hope of a returning leader, and so we'll talk about those.
David: Okay. Let's do it. So do we start in oracle three?
Seth: We start in oracle three in chapter t- two.
David: Okay.
Seth: "In the seventh month on the 21st day of the month," so a little over a month later after he first arrives on the scene.
David: Okay. So what... Like, how long has the temple project been going on at this point?
Seth: I mean, they've been... They h- uh, they-
David: It's like a week, two-
Seth: ... started on the 24th day-
David: ... weeks or something
Seth: ... yeah, the 24th day of the month in the sixth month, and this is the 21st day of the seventh month.
David: So it's like a month.
Seth: So a little under a month later, here's what Haggai says to Zerubbabel and to Joshua. "Who is left among you who saw this house in its former glory? How do you see it now? Is it not as nothing in your eyes?" So that's... Remember how he asked these rhetorical questions-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... to everybody else. He's kind of asking another set of rhetorical questions to the leaders of God's people, and he said, "I want you leaders to ask these questions to the elders of your current" – um, elders of our nation-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... the ones who might have remembered the first one. And what are they gonna say? This temple is as nothing.
David: Right.
Seth: You've started laying the groundwork, clearing the road to lay that first foundation stone, but you know that it's not gonna be impressive as it was before.
David: Yeah.
Seth: We don't have the resources. The, the ground is in famine condition.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So we don't even have the wood to, to get here to make it as impressive. Like, we know it's not gonna be as big of a deal.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So should we keep going?
David: Oh, yeah.
Seth: Right?
David: Yeah, 'cause everybody else watching, I m- I even remember, like in, in Ezra, they see during this time after, like, Zerubbabel makes the first push-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... on the temple.
Seth: Yep.
David: They look at it, and the old people who y- who lived there and saw the, saw the old temple, they just cry.
Seth: That's right.
David: They just... They're like, "This temple sucks-
Seth: This is-
David: ... compared to the old one." [laughs]
Seth: This isn't what it used to be. And I think, and Zachariah talks about this being a day of small things.
David: Right. I remember us talking about that.
Seth: It's like, oh, it's significant, but it's nothing like it was before.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So the question then is, like, so how important is the opulence of the temple to the preservation of God's covenant?
David: Oh-
Seth: Right?
David: ... that's a really good question. Right.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Does it, does it matter? Legitimate question.
Seth: Right.
David: Does it matter that we build a house fit for the God of the universe?
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, is it, is, is the quality of the structure-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... going to affect the quality of the presence of God?
Seth: Right. And I think even more narrowly, is the quality of the structure we are able to build dictate how present God will be with us to the temple?
David: That's right. I just don't have the resources.
Seth: It's like-
David: I can't really put together this great of a house.
Seth: Right.
David: Okay.
Seth: As a leader, it's really discouraging. I can't do any better than this.
David: It's the, it's the best thing I can do.
Seth: I... This is the best that I can do.
David: And I know it stinks.
Seth: And so here's what God says to Joshua, "Be strong, O Joshua." R- remember how God talks-
David: Oh, told Joshua, the first Joshua, "Be strong and courageous."
Seth: That's right.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So-
David: "For the Lord is with you."
Seth: "Be strong, O Joshua. Be strong, all you people of the land. Work, because I am with you," declares the Lord of Hosts. He repeats the promise he made before. It's like, "Don't... Like, I know it's not as impressive, but the impressiveness doesn't matter."
David: It... The imp- the impressive thing is the God of the universe is with you.
Seth: "I am with you according to the covenant I made with you when you came out of Egypt."
David: Ah.
Seth: "I'm just as present now in this ramshackle temple-"
David: Right
Seth: "... as I was all the way back then."
David: In that ramshackle tent. [laughs]
Seth: That, that's right.
David: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Seth: It's like, uh, uh, "Nothing has changed. My Spirit remains in your midst. Fear not."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: "Be strong and courageous."
David: Yeah.
Seth: "Fear not, for thus says the Lord of Hosts, 'Yet once more in a little while I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land.' So yet once more I will shake the heavens and the earth." Mount Sinai was described as a shaking of the heavens and the earth.
David: Oh, okay.
Seth: Like, the, the, the mountain shook, remember?
David: Uh-huh.
Seth: Like, yeah, yeah. So it's like, "Yet once more I will come and make a covenant with my people."
David: Oh, so he's saying, "Once more I'm gonna shake the heavens and the earth," and usually if you take something, you shake it, something's gonna fall out.
Seth: That's right.
David: So I'ma shake the heavens and the earth, and I'm gonna fall out.
Seth: Um-
David: Is that what he's saying?
Seth: L- let's keep reading.
David: Okay. Okay.
Seth: So, like, just, like, but just flog in your mind-
David: In Sinai, when sh-
Seth: That's, that's called a shaking
David: ... when God came-
Seth: It's called a-
David: ... there was a shaking
Seth: ... that's called a shaking.
David: Okay. Okay. Okay.
Seth: And in that time, he provided treasure from Egypt. Like, you know-
David: Right. Yep
Seth: ... remember?
David: Yep. I remember that.
Seth: Okay, so, so just keep that in mind. "And I will shake all nations so that the treasures of all nations-
David: Mm
Seth: ... will come in, and I will fill this house with glory," says the Lord of Hosts.
David: Ah.
Seth: "Silver is mine. Gold is mine. And the latter glory of this house, the, the former glory of this house, will be, um-"
David: No, the latter glory. The, the-
Seth: Oh, yeah. The-
David: ... what it's going to be in the future
Seth: ... what it's going to be in the future will be greater-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... than what was in the past.
David: Yep.
Seth: "And in this place, I will give peace," which is also-The promise of Joshua.
David: Oh, right
Seth: Peace.
David: A land of peace. Peace on every side.
Seth: "Peace on every side," declares the Lord of Hosts.
David: Okay, so don't worry about how, your day of small things-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... how ramshackled this place is going to be.
Seth: Joshua and Zerubbabel-
David: Mm
Seth: ... don't worry about the insufficiency of your leadership to live up to what was before.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: On my own power, I will give everything that will make this place of my presence even more impressive than the last one.
David: I see, and he's gonna do it by a shaking.
Seth: By a shaking. I will shake the nations.
David: And two things happen when he shakes the nation.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: One is that the nations bring their wealth-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... to the temple-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and the other thing is that His glory fills it.
Seth: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
David: Okay, so shaking happens, the temple's beautified, and God fills that temple.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: Okay.
David: Okay, why a shaking? What's going on here?
Seth: There's just, I mean, that's the way, as I said, like, that's the way God appears on Mount Sinai.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So when God appears somewhere, the earth shakes.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, that's kind of, like, common language throughout scripture to de- describe what the earth does when God comes near it.
David: I see.
Seth: Especially when He's coming near it to either judge evil-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... or to do something significant on behalf of His people. The earth shook when He made a covenant with His people and made them His nation for the first time. The earth also shakes when He comes and destroys nations who oppose God's people as well.
David: So the shaking is the presence of God.
Seth: Yes. Yeah, it's the, it's the physical reaction of the world-
David: Right
Seth: ... to the presence of God.
David: Okay. That's helpful 'cause it's tying in what we talked about last week, that God's presence is provision-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... for Israel-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... but it's also a shaking of the nations.
Seth: Yes. I, like, I read, I listened to one commentator just said, like, he's rattling the nations until all their change. [laughs]
David: I was picturing, I was picturing a bully holding-
Seth: Yeah, yeah. [laughs]
David: ... a kid's legs upside down and shaking him. I was like, that's probably not a great way to view God. I don't think that's what he's saying here, but-
Seth: But what's interesting, too-
David: Mm
Seth: ... I will shake the nations so that the treasures of all the nations shall come in.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: The treasures could also be translated, like, precious things-
David: Mm
Seth: ... which is exactly what the nations stole from Israel when they robbed the temple and burned it down.
David: Ah.
Seth: They took all of the precious things-
David: Oh
Seth: ... out of God's temple.
David: That's another interesting thing is, like, who cares how beautiful the house is, right?
Seth: We, we don't have all of our treasure back, right.
David: All the treasure that we had in it that made it special is gone. He's like, "Don't worry about it, I'm gonna shake it out."
Seth: Right.
David: Okay, cool, cool.
Seth: So, so this one's primarily addressed to Joshua, but everybody's included in this one. So just keep in mind, Joshua, this new Joshua, will be part of this new conquest like his old predecessor will-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... where the nations will be shaken, all the treasure that was stolen will be returned, God's presence will fall once again, and the land will be at peace. Okay.
David: Okay.
Seth: That's a big promise.
David: That's a big promise.
Seth: So let's jump forward to the final oracle, oracle number five.
David: The final oracle.
Seth: And this one's directed specifically to Zerubbabel, the grandson of Jehoiachin, the descendant of David, Jehoiachin being the last king of Israel.
David: Okay.
Seth: Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, "I'm about to shake the heavens and the earth," same thing.
David: Okay.
Seth: "And to overthrow the throne of kingdoms."
David: The throne, singular, of kingdoms, plural.
Seth: That is a-
David: That's a weird one. [laughs]
Seth: I did not get, I did not pick that up when I read it actually. That is odd.
David: I mean, just a stab in the dark, you did mention that there was a-
Seth: Oh
David: ... ruler over all the other people-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... named the snake earlier.
Seth: Yes.
David: And I'm just like, I mean-
Seth: Well, maybe
David: ... there's the prince of the power of the air.
Seth: There's a, there's a, a more metaphysical power-
David: Yeah, anyway
Seth: ... being applied here. Anyway.
David: There's probably something going on there.
Seth: "And I'm about to destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the nations, and overthrow the chariots and their riders, and the horses and the riders shall all go down, everyone by the sword of his brother." Which is interesting-
David: Mm
Seth: ... because on this day, when God shakes the earth and the heavens, the battle will happen by friendly fire on the other side.
David: Oh, yeah.
Seth: Which is a way that God gives Israel victory-
David: Right
Seth: ... throughout its history.
David: Yep.
Seth: Enemies just start fighting each other, and Israel walks out of their tents and-
David: Oh, we won
Seth: ... I guess the land is ours now. [laughs]
David: Oh, yeah. [laughs]
Seth: "And on that day," declares the Lord of Hosts, "I will take you, oh Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, and make you like a signet ring. I will give you that royal authority back. I have chosen you," declares the Lord of Hosts.
David: His granddad's ring is coming back.
Seth: Yes. Uh-
David: Ah
Seth: ... and I think this is, [laughs] what I kept thinking of was, uh, why does Zerubbabel need this encouragement?
David: Mm.
Seth: [laughs] I just kept thinking of that scene in Lord of the Rings where Aragorn goes to the Blades of Narsil.
David: Oh, right, the sh- the blade that, that cut the ring off Sauron's hand-
Seth: Yes
David: ... and then was shattered into pieces.
Seth: Right, and then his grandfather, or his dece-
David: Right
Seth: ... his forefather-
David: His whatever, yeah
Seth: ... picks up the ring and has the opportunity to throw it into the fire of Mount Doom.
David: And destroy it forever.
Seth: But he doesn't.
David: Right.
Seth: And then as he's looking at this, this, he's also trying to remember his call to be a king.
David: Right.
Seth: He's remembering the fact that he's the leader of a kingdom-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... but he hasn't taken up that mantle yet.
David: It's Númenor.
Seth: Yeah, and then he says, "The blood of Isildur still runs in my veins."
David: Ah, right, the blood of Jehoiachin still runs in the veins of Zerubbabel.
Seth: Like, I-
David: Am I going to m- commit the sins of my grandfather-
Seth: Right, yeah
David: ... and be cast out, too?
Seth: I s- I was just won- like, I don't have that information here.
David: Right.
Seth: But I was like, I could totally see why this would be an encouraging prophecy. I'm gonna give to you... Or why it'd be a terrifying prophecy. I'm gonna give to you-
David: Mm
Seth: ... what was taken from your grandfather. But his blood still runs in my veins.
David: Right.
Seth: Anyway, I was just-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... a little bit of Lord of the Rings in my mind. [laughs]
David: Hey, anything for an LTRF.
Seth: Yeah. [laughs]
David: You know, anything.
Seth: So-
David: Yeah. But the covenant is going to be restored when God shakes the nations-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and puts the ring of authority back on Israel's finger.
Seth: And what's fascinating here is that you have the shaking of the nations, that promise given to a priest, and that promise given to a king as well.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Normally, the shaking of the nations i-And the destruction of enemies is the purview of a king.
David: Yep.
Seth: But we have the shaking of the nations and plunder of those nations going to the temple to rebuilding it, right?
David: Yes.
Seth: What I think this means is that Haggai wanted us to see that when God's kingdom comes-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... fully and finally, Joshua's hopes for a restored temple and Zerubbabel's hopes for a restored kingdom would be combined in a single shaking of the earth.
David: Okay, yeah.
Seth: Does that make sense?
David: Yeah, totally.
Seth: If you read the Book of Zechariah-
David: Yep
Seth: ... the figures of Joshua and Zerubbabel are mentioned again, and they're combined into one again.
David: Yep, that's right.
Seth: So as the prophetic literature unfolds, it almost seems like the prophets are looking forward into the future and seeing Joshua and Zerubbabel as two people, two figures that become one-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... in the future.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Uh, interesting.
David: I mean, it's interesting. It's like you- you've always had this dichotomy, and you've always had failure.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: So you had Moses, and you had Aaron.
Seth: Yeah.
David: You had a king and a priest.
Seth: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
David: And they failed, right?
Seth: Yes.
David: You had David, and he had priests.
Seth: Yep.
David: And it failed, right?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: You always had-
Seth: Yep
David: ... the king on the throne and-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... the priest in the temple.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And for some reason, those two things just-
Seth: Never
David: ... really got off the ground.
Seth: And some people even said the reason we even have prophetic literature at all is because the failure of God's priests to faithfully teach the covenant in the first place.
David: Right.
Seth: So you have Joshua here being given all the authority and hopes and expectations of somebody like Aaron would've been-
David: Yes
Seth: ... all the way back in the day, almost as if Haggai's prophesying the end of his own ministry because we have a new Joshua.
David: Right.
Seth: We have a new high priest who can do what he's supposed to do.
David: Mm, yeah. There's this, where the, a role that was separate-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... a king on the throne and a priest in the temple, and that's always failed-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... historically.
Seth: Yeah.
David: It's going, there's going to be a conflagration of those two things.
Seth: Yeah, on a single shaking, on a single day of shaking.
David: And that's going to be surrounded by or consummated by-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... a single day of shaking and a, a new ring of the covenant.
Seth: Yeah. Uh, there's a-
David: And an adornment of the temple and the presence of God.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: And the destruction of enemies. [laughs]
Seth: Yeah. Maybe another way to say it, there's a, a day of shaking in the future coming-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... where a new Joshua will re- reside over a temple more glorious than any that has come before.
David: Yes.
Seth: And a new royal authority will be given to a son of David-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... to rule a kingdom of peace. Like, like-
David: Okay
Seth: ... that's what happens in the ne- that's what-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... Haggai said will happen when all these dominoes lined up.
David: Okay.
Seth: Zerubbabel and Joshua represent a final temple-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and a final Davidic king and a final peace for God's people.
David: And that's how the Book of Haggai ends.
Seth: That's how the Book of Haggai ends.
David: Right there.
Seth: "I'll, I'll give you this ring." [gentle music]
David: All right, so how does all of this [laughs] get us to Jesus? Because we talked about, I think it's interesting, we talked about, you know, this delegation from Persia coming down, and there's the priest, and there's the king, and they have the materials for the tabernacle. And there's been this commission from an old king that they've been freed from, like the Exodus story, and everything is there for, you know, the rule and covenant of God to come back again. I just feel like that is how we're poised at the end of Haggai, leaning into the New Testament. [laughs] It's like-
Seth: That's right
David: ... man, all the pieces are here. [laughs]
Seth: Right.
David: This is like a priest who's a king, who's the temple, who brings God's presence. I mean...
Seth: Yeah, and I think the reason we need to lean forward in the New Testament is because of this unanswered question in my head. It's like, so did Zerubbabel and Joshua do it? Were they the people? 'Cause Haggai doesn't, like, qualify it the way that we've been qualifying it. Haggai just says, "Joshua will experience this. Zerubbabel will experience this."
David: Yep.
Seth: But history tells us that, that they, they didn't.
David: Right.
Seth: Right?
David: Yes.
Seth: The, the temple was rebuilt.
David: Yep.
Seth: But sooner or later, Persia got overtaken by Greece, and Greece got taken over by Rome.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And that's when Jesus shows up.
David: Right.
Seth: So, like, the hopes invested, the royal authority given to Zerubbabel, the hope of a, a, a glorious temple given to Joshua don't pan out within their lifetimes.
David: Right.
Seth: Right?
David: And you have, what's interesting, you have an interesting ironic reversal of the promise where you had a gorgeous temple-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... in the Herodian temple.
Seth: When Jesus would've been alive.
David: When Jesus was alive, but i- and it came maybe from some of the pockets of Rome-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... but also from the heavy taxation on the people of God themselves.
Seth: That's right.
David: And so whose, whose pockets are getting overturned and shaken out? Is it-
Seth: Mm.
David: Is it the conquest of the nations? Not really.
Seth: Right.
David: It's God's own people are getting shaken down by their own corrupt rulers.
Seth: By their own corrupt rulers.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So it's like, man, this is not what we thought this would look like.
David: Yes.
Seth: And so Jesus hits the scene.
David: Right. And-
Seth: And-
David: Where do we need to go here?
Seth: I mean, I think a really basic thing which the Bible's already primed us to see is to understand that Jesus is a new Joshua.
David: Right.
Seth: So we had a Joshua who was strong and courageous-
David: Yep
Seth: ... who conquered a land. We have a Joshua who is pro-
David: In Haggai
Seth: ... in Haggai, who is promised the restoration of a more glorious temple.
David: And we have a Joshua in-
Seth: In Jesus
David: ... Jesus.
Seth: Yeah.
David: It's the same name.
Seth: It's the same name.
David: Yep.
Seth: Just different pronunciations for some reason.
David: Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: Um, I, I don't know why. Do you know why people stopped-
David: Saying Joshua?
Seth: ... Joshua?
David: I, I, like 'cause Yeshua-
Seth: Right
David: ... is the, is the name.
Seth: Right.
David: And no, I, I don't know why. I don't know why.
Seth: It's like, why do we start saying Jesus rather than Joshua?
David: I mean...
Seth: Anyway.
David: It's a weird one.
Seth: It's a weird one. So we have just another man named Joshua-
David: Right
Seth: Who comes on the scene [laughs]
David: Yeah.
Seth: Right?
David: Yeah.
Seth: And we also know that he is a son of David.
David: Right.
Seth: An heir of David.
David: A news Zerubbabel-
Seth: Right
David: ... who's named Joshua.
Seth: Who, right. So-
David: That's weird. [laughs] Yeah.
Seth: Right. He's... Are the promises of Haggai being fulfilled in one person?
David: Right.
Seth: Is Jesus gonna be the one to shake the nations?
David: Mm.
Seth: Is he gonna be the one to restore the temple to its former glory?
David: Yeah.
Seth: Right?
David: Yeah.
Seth: So what happens then when Jesus comes to the temple?
David: Mm-hmm. He does a shaking.
Seth: He does a shaking.
David: Okay. Yeah.
Seth: Uh, because the temple has not the place of worship of God anymore.
David: Mm.
Seth: It's become something other than that. It's been the place of fleecing the people. It's become a symbol of corrupt leadership, right?
David: Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth: It's-
David: And so you have this, like, Mount Sinai moment-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... where God comes down again-
Seth: Right
David: ... and it's a shaking.
Seth: And so he's shaking the kings of the leaders of Israel.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: The King Herod and the kings of the Pharisees and the Saddu- the leaders of Israel.
David: Yep.
Seth: He comes and shakes this nation, and he does that first by whipping people and-
David: [laughs]
Seth: ... kicking people out of the temple and turning over tables. He literally shakes tables and disrupts worship-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... in that place. And then he prophesies and says, "Not one stone will be left on top of this thing."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And then he makes an odd prophecy about, "In three days I will raise a new temple-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... back up again."
David: Right.
Seth: That's what happens when Jesus comes to the temple of Israel.
David: Yeah. So all this time, Israel has been looking for a new leader-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... a new king-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... to facilitate a new covenant-
Seth: Yep
David: ... with God again.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And that would take place inside a new temple that outshone the glory of the former one.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And Jesus is doing that somehow-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... by [laughs] tearing down the very temple that Zerubbabel and Haggai were tasked to build.
Seth: Yeah. Maybe it's helpful to go back to our previous podcast in, um, Haggai, and remember that when the priest and God's people first came back to the nation, they built just an altar.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And it was this altar that kinda symbolized just religious performance.
David: Right
Seth: Doing, in their own effort, what they presumed is what Go- God wanted.
David: Yeah.
Seth: But failed to have the right relationship with God.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Right?
David: Religion without relationship. Yeah.
Seth: Yeah. Haggai critiqued that-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and taught God's people and God's priest how to have a right relationship with the covenant and with his presence and with the temple.
David: Yeah.
Seth: The other hope is that leaders of God's people, Joshua, Zerubbabel, would enshrine those values for future generations, right?
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: But that doesn't happen.
David: Right.
Seth: Instead, God's people falls into the same pattern they did before, but this time they have more money.
David: [laughs]
Seth: Uh, so the temple becomes just religious ritual again.
David: Yeah. It's... I mean, there's more than an altar there, but that's really the only function.
Seth: But it's, it serves to line the pockets of the corrupt leaders of Israel.
David: Right.
Seth: There's a new failure of leadership.
David: Yes.
Seth: Israel is, in some ways, better off than they were right after the exile-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... but in some ways worse. They're being preyed upon by the leaders-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... they would hope to trust in a situation that looks most like what they hoped for.
David: Right.
Seth: Right?
David: And so once again, God sends a leader to Israel to destroy the temple.
Seth: To destroy the temple.
David: Uh, and that's, but that's Jesus this time.
Seth: But that's Jesus this time.
David: Yes.
Seth: And what he's gonna do, he's gonna say, "Okay. If you're gonna continue to have the wrong relationship with this temple and continue to confuse the presence and existence of the temple-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... with a real relationship with me, the God of the covenant-
David: Yep
Seth: ... I'm gonna tear it down."
David: Right.
Seth: "No temple will exist anymore."
David: Right. Which would mean no hope.
Seth: Which would mean no hope.
David: Right.
Seth: Unless-
David: [laughs] Right
Seth: ... the temple was gonna look different than it did before.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And what Jesus says is, "That temple is me."
David: Right.
Seth: "I am the representative of God's covenant."
David: Right.
Seth: "You come to me, my crucified body and resurrected body. That's who you come to. That's the symbol of the repaired relationship with God. I am the symbol of God's covenant blessing for all the world. I am its new king."
David: Right.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And that's the, that's the other thing. So he's not only the temple where the covenant can be restored, right? He's also the king that we've been given that can actually be the delegation between us and God-
Seth: I... That's right. That's right
David: ... to restore the covenant.
Seth: That's right. That's right.
David: But what's amazing is it's, he's not an earthly king going to a heavenly king, you know, making some kinda deal.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: He is God himself making a deal with God himself.
Seth: Mm.
David: How unbreakable is that covenant? [laughs]
Seth: Right.
David: Like-
Seth: Right, right, right. Yes
David: ... and if Jesus is given that ring-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... it can never be taken off because that ring is now on God's own finger.
Seth: Yes.
David: That's amazing. It's... I mean, that is the, that is the kind of unbreakable covenant because it's between God and God. [laughs]
Seth: Right. I haven't thought about the way that the reason Jesus's covenant that he makes is better-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... is because it's between a divine king and a divine king.
David: Right.
Seth: And then that has to be unbreakable-
David: Yes
Seth: ... or more, far more binding than-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... any of the other ones, and based on better promises. [laughs]
David: Yep.
Seth: Right. That's what Hebrews is.
David: I mean, I'm, I mean, there's other leaning into Hebrews there, is he calls Jesus the priest.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Right? He's, he's our new-
Seth: That's right
David: ... high priest like Joshua.
Seth: That's right.
David: But he's from the order of Melchizedek, which is-
Seth: Oh
David: ... an order without a beginning.
Seth: That's right.
David: It's an eternal, so he's an eternal king in the line of David, and he's eternal priest in the line of Melchizedek, so he can-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... eternally facilitate the covenant and-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... intercede for the sins of God's people at the right hand of God-
Seth: Yes
David: ... from divinity to divinity forever and ever amen.
Seth: [laughs] So cool.
David: That's pretty cool.
Seth: Um, so let's go back to the shaking-
David: Oh, yes
Seth: ... of the nations.
David: Shaking.
Seth: So what's interesting is I was scouring my New Testament for references of Jesus's resurrection or his death to be described as a shaking.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And I couldn't find any.
David: Okay.
Seth: But what I did find was in Matthew 24-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... when Jesus is predicting the destruction of the temple-
David: Yep
Seth: ... he describes it like a shaking.
David: That's right.
Seth: The sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, stars will fall, the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
David: Yep.
Seth: And then the Son of Man, the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven. Um-
David: That's so interesting then. So the shaking that Haggai is prophesying is actually the destruction of the temple that they're about to build.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so he bu- he- he's like... And so that means then that the wealth of the, of kings-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... is Jesus himself in a sense, because he says, "I will do a shaking."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: "The temple's destroyed, and then I will come. God will come-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and manifest himself." Well, who is there, you know-
Seth: And God's glory will fall.
David: Right.
Seth: And if that temple's built, who's left-
David: Right
Seth: ... to replace that temple? Only Jesus.
David: Only Jesus.
Seth: Hmm.
David: Yeah, and the people of God who build brick by brick with him in the new kingdom of God.
Seth: Interesting. So that's the first time the shaking is described, when this, this-
David: Oh
Seth: ... the-
David: Yes
Seth: ... the temple's actually destroyed, and the second time is, and the probably the most helpful time-
David: Mm
Seth: ... is in the Book of Hebrews-
David: Okay
Seth: ... where it quotes directly from Haggai.
David: Oh, sweet.
Seth: So we've got a divine author-
David: Yep
Seth: ... explaining what this text means to us. And so here's what Hebrews says. Hebrews 12:25-29, "See that you do not refuse the God who speaks to you. Uh, for if the people in the old covenant, the people on, from Mount Sinai, did not escape when they refused to listen to God, how shall we escape if he speaks from heaven in all royal authority right now?"
David: Mm.
Seth: I'm kind of paraphrasing.
David: Yeah, yeah.
Seth: "The one whose voice has shaken the earth. But now God has promised us, saying this, 'Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also heaven.'"
David: Right.
Seth: That's Haggai 2:6, the one he made to Joshua. "'Yet once more,'" the author of Hebrews says, "'indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken.'"
David: Mm.
Seth: "Which means everything that has been made, leaving only the things which cannot be shaken."
David: Mm.
Seth: "Therefore, we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken."
David: Ah.
Seth: "Let us have grace by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear."
David: Whoa.
Seth: So really interesting take on what Haggai's saying.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Haggai imagined a day where all the nations would be shaken and God's glory comes into the temp- all the wealth of the nation rebuilds God's temple into this, this glorious, amazing-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... amazing thing, or all the chariots are destroyed-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... because they're all fighting with each other. And what the author of Hebrews is saying is, like, what that really is referring to is what God will do on the last day.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Over the course of human history, he will shake and shake and shake and shake until there's a final shaking-
David: Mm
Seth: ... where only the things that are immovable will remain.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And what will be immovable? Only the things that are from God.
David: Right.
Seth: All God's gold.
David: Yeah.
Seth: All God's silver.
David: Yeah.
Seth: God's true temple, Jesus.
David: Right.
Seth: His true covenant people.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That's all that will be left on that day. No enemy nations.
David: Mm.
Seth: Only peace.
David: Right, 'cause everything else will be shaken off.
Seth: 'Cause everything else will be shaken off.
David: That's cool. So Jesus is inviting us into a kingdom where he is the king-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and he's going to make us unshakable.
Seth: Yes.
David: So we're not the ones who shake the nations. [laughs]
Seth: No. Uh, no, we, we, we are not. We are not.
David: Spoiler alert.
David: Sorry, every-
Seth: Sorry
David: ... sorry, youth conference, that we teased at the end of last episode, it is Jesus is the shaker of the nations.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And to not be shaken out of it, all you have to do is join his kingdom.
Seth: Yeah.
David: That's cool.
Seth: And I think there's something interesting, too, about the final world that God creates.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: The final thing that the final king creates can't be lost.
David: Mm.
Seth: Adam and Eve probably had the per- a pretty perfect world, you would think.
David: Right.
Seth: But it was lost.
David: Mm.
Seth: Which means it couldn't have been perfect.
David: Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah.
Seth: I mean, the garden's never... We're never told the garden's perfect.
David: Right.
Seth: We're just told it's great.
David: Yeah.
Seth: It's good.
David: Yeah, but it was shake... There was something in it that was shakable.
Seth: Yes, in it.
David: Yeah.
Seth: But one day, there will be something better than the Garden of Eden-
David: Wow
Seth: ... that will never be taken.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Will never be shaken.
David: Mm.
Seth: And that's when Jesus returns.
David: Bring that on.
Seth: Yeah, [laughs] I want that.
David: Sounds awesome. So that's what Haggai was looking forward to.
Seth: That's what Haggai was looking forward to.
David: And that's what Jesus accomplished as the priest king-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... who shakes the nations.
Seth: Yeah, and that's weirdly what the destruction of the temple accomplished, like prefigures.
David: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth: Like, the shaking of the heavens is, like, it's explicitly tied to that moment of history.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So when the physical temple in Jerusalem was destroyed, it prophesies the rebuilding of an unshakable kingdom.
David: Right. Yeah. That's good news. Well, that's Haggai.
Seth: That's Haggai.
David: Two long episodes on one short book.
David: [laughs]
Seth:You're welcome world.
David: You're welcome world. [laughs]
David: Well, thank you guys so much for joining us. This has been awesome, and we will see you next time. [outro music]
Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel creates short films, devotionals, and podcasts like this one. Everything we make is free because of generous supporters like you. To see our resources, visit spokengospel.com or subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. See you next week. [outro music]
