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Hosea Introduction

About This Episode

Hosea is about God's love towards his unfaithful people. Hosea even marries a whore to prove the point. It's one of the most shocking books in the Bible and the way Hosea uses the metaphor of adultery to describe idolatry is scandalous. Seth and David talk about the unique way Hosea highlights God's, husbandly love and the way Jesus demonstrates it in his life and death.

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Introducing the Book of Hosea: A Shocking Love Story Between God and His People

Show Notes

David Bowden and Seth Stewart open this introduction to the Book of Hosea with a content advisory. The language in Hosea is intense, often sexually charged, and deliberately shocking. But the shock serves a purpose. Hosea reveals the extent to which God is willing to go to save an unfaithful people. The book frames disobedience as sexual infidelity — as whoredom — and God's response as that of a jealous, pursuing husband. The central message can be summarized this way: while we were still unfaithful, Jesus chose to marry us. That message requires some setup, though. Hosea draws on a specific historical moment, a particular kind of worship practice, and deep biblical themes stretching from Genesis to Revelation. Understanding those elements transforms the book from confusing ancient poetry into one of the most visceral portraits of the Gospel in all of Scripture.

What Is a Prophet, and Why Does It Matter?

Hosea is the first prophetic book covered on the podcast, and it's worth pausing on what prophetic literature actually is. A prophet in the Old Testament was not primarily a fortune teller. A prophet was someone who interpreted God's law for a new generation — an enforcer of the covenant. Hosea holds Israel accountable to the commands given in Deuteronomy and Leviticus, listing specific ways they have broken God's law and pointing to the curses God promised would follow. Twenty of the 27 covenant curses from Deuteronomy 28 are repeated in Hosea. Without that background, it is difficult to read Hosea well.

Prophets also had one eye on God's law and the other on the geopolitical situation around them. Hosea could see that Israel was making treaties with Egypt and Assyria, trusting foreign powers instead of God. Based on the covenant curses, the conclusion was clear: Assyria would come and destroy them. Prophets were part of the political cabinet of Israel's kings — advisors who interpreted world events through the lens of God's word. Hosea 1:1 opens with a list of kings precisely because Hosea served in their courts.

But prophets were also mouthpieces of God, receiving direct revelation. Hosea predicts things that go beyond what the law alone would suggest — like the loss of sacrifices, kings, and priestly ephods in exile. Both functions operated simultaneously in the mouth of a prophet: careful study of God's word and direct communication from God's Spirit. The word "return" appears 23 times in Hosea. His primary aim is not predicting the future but calling people to repentance.

Jesus fulfills the prophetic office in a way no other prophet could. He knows the Torah intimately, applies it to his generation, and calls people to repent because the Kingdom of God is at hand. But unlike every other prophet, Jesus is not a third party reporting divine revelation — he is the divine revelation. What prophets intimated, Jesus incarnated. And where every prophet before him ultimately failed to bring Israel back to God, Jesus succeeded. Through his death and resurrection, he accomplished the reconciliation the prophets could only announce.

The Historical World of Hosea

Hosea prophesies to the Northern Kingdom of Israel, the ten tribes that split from Judah after Solomon's reign. This kingdom is infamous in the Book of Kings for having no good kings — not a single one. It was founded on idolatry, established through the golden calves set up by Jeroboam. By Hosea's time, Israel is under the growing threat of the Assyrian superpower, hedging its bets with treaties with Egypt and tribute payments to Assyria.

Ironically, this period is also one of Israel's wealthiest eras. The kings listed in Hosea 1:1 correspond to a golden age of material prosperity, and that prosperity fueled deeper idolatry. The people believed their wealth came from their idol worship, not from God. Jesus would later echo this dynamic when he warned that the wealthy will have a hard time entering the Kingdom of God. Hosea directs his message not primarily to the king, as some other prophets do, but to the people and the priests — the religious leaders who abandoned their duties and the ordinary Israelites who followed them into the worship of false gods.

Baal Worship and the Fertility Cult

Baal, a word meaning "master" or "lord," refers in Hosea to the Canaanite fertility god associated with storms and rain. Baal worship functioned as ancient technology. In a subsistence agricultural society, the question of how to make crops grow was answered through idol worship. Statues were placed in fields. Sacrifices were offered for rain. But the fertility cult went further. The agricultural imagery of sowing seed in the ground was acted out through ritual prostitution in Baal's temples. A man would pay a temple fee, be given a cult prostitute, and through that sexual act attempt to excite Baal into sending rain — his "semen" — upon the earth, which was described in the mythology as his mother or womb.

This is why Hosea's language is so explicitly sexual. God is not hiding behind euphemisms. He is calling what he sees for what it is. And the application is not limited to ancient agrarian societies. Modern culture still uses sexuality as a kind of technology — to purchase significance, meaning, freedom from boredom, or relief from existential emptiness. The mechanism has changed, but the human impulse to find life and meaning through sexual experience outside of God's design remains the same. When Hosea uses words like "sow," "reap," "adultery," and "whoring," this is the world he is describing.

The Bible's Marriage Theme: From Eden to Hosea

The central theme of Hosea — God as husband, Israel as unfaithful wife — is not invented in this book. It stretches all the way back to Genesis. The creation story reaches its climax not on the day God rests but on the day Adam and Eve come together. That first marriage is the template for God's relationship with his creation: intimate union that produces fruitfulness. "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two will become one flesh" (Genesis 2:24). That is not only the paradigm for human marriage — it is the storyline of the entire Bible.

Throughout the Torah, God describes himself as jealous for his people (Exodus 34:14). Jealousy in a marriage is not petty; it is the proper response of a husband whose wife has given her affection to another. God warned Israel not to make covenants or intermarry with Canaanite nations — not merely as a practical safeguard against influence but as a reflection of the spiritual reality that Israel was already married to God. Sacrificing to goat demons, offering children to Molech, even trusting in a legitimate religious object like Gideon's ephod — all of it was categorized as spiritual adultery. The issue was never simply breaking a rule. It was dividing affection. God does not want to be loved more than other gods. He does not want his people loving other gods at all, just as a husband does not tolerate even a fraction of his wife's heart belonging to another man.

This reframes how we think about disobedience. It is not primarily a legal infraction. It is a betrayal of intimacy. And God's response is not that of a dispassionate judge handing down a sentence but of a husband who is heartbroken and jealous for the love of his bride.

Grounded Judgment, Groundless Grace

The Book of Hosea reveals a striking pattern. Every act of judgment God pronounces comes with a reason. He names the specific law that was broken, the specific curse that applies. If a divorce lawyer were present, God would win the case. Israel's punishment is never arbitrary. But every expression of God's love and mercy comes without a reason. God never says, "Because you returned to me, I will love you again." He never conditions his compassion on Israel's repentance. In the middle of devastating oracles of judgment, God simply declares that he will betroth his people to himself again — not remarry them as though picking up where they left off, but betroth them, as though proposing to a brand-new, spotless bride. It is a picture of new creation.

This is the Gospel according to Hosea. God's judgment needs a reason, but his compassion never does. Jesus took the grounded, legally justified punishment that Israel deserved — the exile, the destruction, the divorce — and bore it on the cross. And then he offered groundless grace to a world of spiritual adulterers. "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son" (John 3:16). But why? Because God loved the world. There is no deeper reason given. "While we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). This is why Jesus spent his ministry among the sexually immoral and the politically treasonous — not because they earned his attention, but because his heart was for those who had broken his. The Book of Hosea invites its readers to stop settling for ritualistic obedience and to receive the fierce, jealous, unreasonable love of a God who pursues his unfaithful bride and makes her new.

Transcript

David: Hey, everyone. Welcome to our series covering the Book of Hosea. Before we jump in, we wanted to offer a quick word about the sensitive nature of this book.

Seth: Hosea's full of really intense imagery, um, and often pretty sexual imagery, so if you're listening with your family or with kids, you might wanna be a little careful.

David: Yeah. We're not gonna get crazy explicit, but you just might want to use discretion when, uh, diving into this book with us, but we're excited to preach Christ out of it and go through the Book of Hosea with you. Here we go.

Intro: [Instrumental music] Welcome to the Spoken Gospel Podcast. Spoken Gospel is a nonprofit dedicated to the idea that every part of the Bible, Old Testament and New, is about Jesus, and this podcast is our experiment to publicly test that belief. Every episode, hosts David Bowden and Seth Stewart work through a biblical text to see how it helps us see and savor Jesus. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]

David: Well, welcome, everyone, to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Seth, we are in the Book of Hosea today, right?

Seth: That's right.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Right.

David: So why should we care about the Book of Hosea right now?

Seth: Well... Oh, man.

David: [laughs]

Seth: Hosea is a crazy book, and I think it's because it kinda proves in the most, I think, visceral way that we've studied, at least together, the extent to which God is willing to go to save a sinful people.

David: Mm.

Seth: And that's because he frames our sinfulness as, like, sexual infidelity, as whoredom. He just, he just... Hosea will call us whores.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And God, the, the... What's on the line is, um, God shows his love for us in this, that while we were still whores-

David: [laughs]

Seth: ... Jesus marries us.

David: Yeah. That might sound a little intense to a lot of people-

Seth: It will [laughs]

David: ... I think. Like, I don't think wh- whore is a word that Christians normally throw around.

Seth: No, it's not.

David: Uh, at least not since the Puritan day. [laughs]

Seth: Yeah. [laughs] I mean, I mean, even in this book, there's a, a... At one point, [laughs] I don't even know if I should say it on the air. One of the sons that Hose- One of... Hosea names one of his sons, "You are not mine."

David: Right.

Seth: J- s- like, "You're a bastard."

David: Oh, right.

Seth: That's the name of his son.

David: Yes.

Seth: And it's a really intense book.

David: Yeah.

Seth: It's meant to shock Israel.

David: It's a very intense book.

Seth: I think... And that's one of the things I think that you take away from this book as you just first read it. It's a shocking book, not just in the graphic details of it, but in the language it uses-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... and the mercy that God shows to people-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... that he sees as just wantonly sleeping with whoever-

David: Right

Seth: ... comes along.

David: Yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of shocking things in the book. Like you said, the language, the vocabulary is shocking.

Seth: Yes.

David: Harlotry and whoredom, a lot of sexual language, all this kinda stuff. And then, like, God, we, we see, like, the two extremes of God. Uh, we, we see that he tells people he won't have mercy. Like, "I just won't have mercy."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "Wait, wait, wait, what? You promised me."

Seth: "God can just turn that off? Like, you said, you said that it would be forever."

David: [laughs] And then he, and then he comes back and says, "I'll have mercy with you forever, and you'll never be able to get away from my mercy and my love." And it's like-

Seth: Right

David: ... what? It's a shocking book.

Seth: It is a shocking book.

David: Um, and so, um... But we have a lot, I think, in this introduction episode to set up to help people come into this book because it is using so much language that people might not be familiar with. It's referring to a lot of religious practices that people m- might not be familiar with.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: It's in a certain h- like, period of Israel's history that-

Seth: Yeah, right before they're about to go into exile.

David: Right. And then, like, uh, it's pulling on, uh, like, themes that have been developing from Genesis 1-

Seth: Yep

David: ... and that, that, that don't stop until Revelation-

Seth: Yep

David: ... at the end of Revelation.

Seth: Yep.

David: And so it's like-

Seth: It's really cool

David: ... it's a big book.

Seth: It's pretty cool.

David: And I think it's unique among the minor prophets in that way. Uh-

Seth: Why do you think it's unique?

David: Uh, it's really... I mean, it, it, noth- no book in the Bible highlights harlotry, spiritual harlotry like Hosea does. So it's unique in-

Seth: Jeremiah gets close.

David: He does, and that's-

Seth: And that's because Jeremiah-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... and, uh, Hosea probably knew each other, right?

David: Yeah, and Ezekiel also gets close.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: But in terms of regularity-

Seth: Yeah, Hosea

David: ... and n- n- nobody m- else married a harlot-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... in that way, you know? So Hosea just kinda stands alone.

Seth: You showed your hands there.

David: I did, but, you know.

Seth: It's just not everybody thinks that... We'll get to that in the podcast, but, like-

David: We will

Seth: ... it's-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... interesting.

David: And I chose my word carefully.

Seth: Harlot.

David: Uh, yes. I didn't say prostitute.

Seth: Prostitute.

David: So.

Seth: We'll get there.

David: We'll get there.

Seth: Get there.

David: But, uh, anyway, so a lot to, to dive into, and we're gonna try to help you guys digest all this. So with all that on the line, to set up-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... these categories, Seth, where should we start?

Seth: I think we need to start with, like, what is prophetic literature?

David: Oh, okay, 'cause I said, "Minor prophets"-

Seth: Right, yeah

David: ... and some people are like, "The what?"

Seth: Yeah.

David: [laughs]

Seth: This is actually our first proph-

David: Prophetic book

Seth: ... prophetic book to talk about on the podcast.

David: Yeah, unless you count traditional Jewish categories.

Seth: Which would include the book Kings.

David: Yep.

Seth: Right.

David: And yep, so anyway.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Uh, but yes, in the Protestant canon.

Seth: Yeah, and even-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... just the idea of a singular person-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... s- saying oracles, saying things-

David: Yes

Seth: ... that are meant to bring about judgment or-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... God's mercy. Like, that-

David: 99% of the book is just a, the prophet talking.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And so it's just... We're not used to reading that kind of-

Seth: It's not a narrative.

David: Yeah, we're not used to reading that kind of literature.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So-

Seth: It's a, it's a collection of speeches.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So prophetic literature, then, what, what, what is it, and maybe m- and what is it not-

Seth: Yeah, so-

David: ... I think is helpful

Seth: ... a pro- Well, maybe start with, like, what is a prophet?

David: Yeah.

Seth: So a prophet, we kinda think of a prophet as some, like, a fortune teller.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like, somebody who tells the future and can see into the future and knows what's about to happen.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Uh, that's not generally the way the Old Testament saw what a prophet was.

David: No.

Seth: Uh, primarily, a prophet was somebody who interpreted the law for a new generation.

David: Yeah. Or, um, that, uh, or like, like-

Seth: [laughs]

David: ... they, like, they told, they told it like it is with God's stamp-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... of approval.

Seth: You could also even call them, like, a c- like, a, an enforcer-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... of God's law.

David: Yes.

Seth: So Hosea is essentially holding Israel to account to the ways it's wronged God's law back in Deuteronomy and Leviticus.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And, like, what you'll see throughout the book is Ho- Hosea bringing upUm, incident after incident of Israel's sins, breaking the commands back from, uh, Deuteronomy and Le- Leviticus.

David: Right. He's like, "Remember that command? You broke it."

Seth: You broke-

David: "Remember that command? You broke it"

Seth: ... and he's saying, "Now you should expect what God said you should expect." And he goes on and lists several of the curses listed back in Deuteronomy 28-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and Leviticus 26? 14. I forget.

David: [laughs]

Seth: It's in my notes somewhere. I'll-

David: But yes

Seth: ... find it in a second.

David: So, so a-

Seth: Um

David: ... prophet is enforcing God's law-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... trying to tell people like, "Don't you know you're breaking it?"

Seth: Yes.

David: "Here's what's going to happen if you continue this wa-"

Seth: Right

David: ... "in this direction."

Seth: And what made the prophets unique was, like, they're meditating on God's law. They're realizing God's people are breaking it, and then they also have one, like, eye to the law.

David: Uh-huh.

Seth: But they also have, uh, the other eye to the geopolitical situation happening around Israel. So Hosea is looking at the law, seeing all the ways that Israel's broken it, and then noticing that the curses are other nations will come and overthrow you. Your vines won't give fruit. This will happen, and this-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... will happen. And then he's looking at the world around himself and says, "Okay, Israel's currently making treaties with Egypt and with Assyria, and they're trusting this nation. Israel, I can tell you what's gonna happen."

David: Yeah.

Seth: "Because you're breaking God's law, Assyria is gonna come and attack you and decimate you. That treaty you made with Egypt, they're gonna stab you in the back."

David: Right.

Seth: "How do I know this? God's law said it-

David: Right

Seth: ... and I'm just saying it for this new generation 'cause you need to know."

David: Yes. So y- I mean, and I think that's a- a- an interesting point. Uh, the... I, I think it took me a long time to realize how political the prophets are. And, you know, the... I mean, that, and that's how they started. Like, like, the office of prophet in the Bible has always been deeply political.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Uh, so much so that it was the... it was a prophet of God who first i- un- inaugurated and a- anointed the first king of Israel.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like-

Seth: Samuel

David: ... yeah, they've always been deeply linked.

Seth: And even I think the first, like, prophet-type character we meet is actually Balaam in the Book of Numbers.

David: Oh, yeah, if you exclude Moses.

Seth: Ex- if you exclude Moses, but Balaam was a pagan prophet-

David: Yep

Seth: ... and the kings of the world would hire him for his wisdom.

David: Right.

Seth: He was familiar with sacred text. He was familiar with the world around him, and he was trying to interpret world events through the spiritual lens-

David: Yes

Seth: ... and give them advice. That's like prophets-

David: Am I, am I going to win this battle?

Seth: Yes.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Prophets were always part of like the political elite's cabinet-

David: Yes

Seth: ... like in this day.

David: Definitely.

Seth: And so Hosea would've been close to the kings of Israel.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And if you notice, verse one, "The word of the Lord came to Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, Hezekiah, uh, the kings of Judah, and Jeroboam, the son of Joash, king of Israel."

David: So political lineages right at the beginning.

Seth: Right. He's like-

David: Yep

Seth: ... what was Hosea doing? He was advising all these kings-

David: Right

Seth: ... at some point.

David: So that's a helpful way-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... to think about the office of a prophet here is, is, um, a k- in the king's cabinet.

Seth: Yep, that's exactly right.

David: Oh, that's helpful.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So something else you said, though, about what a prophet is that I wanna pick up, 'cause I wonder if some people out there are thinking this, is you were like, "So a prophet is someone who interprets the text, sees what's happening. They look at the world around them, they interpret it, and they say like, 'Oh, I can put A and B together. I'm not an idiot.'"

Seth: Yes.

David: "This is clearly what's gonna happen." I thought a prophet knew that because God told them.

Seth: Yes.

David: [laughs]

Seth: That is true. Uh, and it, both are true at the same time. Well, God is speaking through his word.

David: Yeah.

Seth: They were experts in God's word, so God was speaking through his word. But also, throughout the prophetic literature, you have visions.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like Isaiah has a vision of God's throne room. Hosea actually does predict things that the law probably wouldn't have led him to say unless he was directed by some extra measure of the Holy Spirit-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... guiding him things to say.

David: Yes.

Seth: So like one example is, like it's pretty clear that an invading army will come and destroy Israel if they break God's commands. That's what Leviticus and Deuteronomy say.

David: Yes.

Seth: He... That's wha- A plus B equals C, guys.

David: Yep.

Seth: Like that's, that's the way-

David: Everybody else was just too blind to see it.

Seth: Right.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And the... or they had forgotten God's law, forgot this was the natural consequence.

David: Yeah. Or thought they could get out of it.

Seth: They thought-

David: We'll talk about that

Seth: ... they could get out of it.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Uh, but he says one thing, uh, in verse, uh, in chapter three where he, he doesn't just say that Assyria will come and take you away, but he al- he also says that you're n- gonna go without sacrifices. You're gonna go without kings. You're gonna go without ephods. Like-

David: Which is like what the priests wore

Seth: ... what the priests wore. He's like, "You're gonna go into a place where there will be no more way for you to access God's presence."

David: Right. Which if you remember, like Ezekiel-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... Ezekiel, like the people around him thought that removal of like access to God's presence in the temple was impossible 'cause it's God's house.

Seth: Yes.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So like he's predicting things that he couldn't know-

David: Right

Seth: ... necessarily, and we'll get into his, his actual prophetic oracles-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... later on in the pro- the, the podcast. But your point stands. Yes, he's reading the law and interpreting and putting A plus B guided by the Holy Spirit, but the Lord's also downloading him information he should not know-

David: Right

Seth: ... on his own.

David: Which is why, uh, one of the key, um, indicators of prophetic literature we see in Hosea, which is, "And God came and said to him," "And then God said to him."

Seth: Yes.

David: "And then God said to him," "And then the Lord spoke through him."

Seth: Yeah.

David: And it's... they are... Profits are also the mouthpiece of God. They hear what God says and then report what he has said.

Seth: Yes. You're exactly right.

David: And they're not necessarily trying to interpret what God says, but saying what God has said.

Seth: Yes.

David: It's, uh, how to, uh, it's a, a human report of a divine revelation.

Seth: Yep. Yep, yep, yep.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Uh, so yeah, the, both of those functions are happening in the mouth of a prophet.

David: I like that blending.

Seth: Yeah.

David: I, I don't think I've thought of it that concretely before, that like... Yeah, I like... Uh, one reason I like that is I feel like the, like spiritual lineage of the prophetic is something then I can like step into by meditating in God's word-

Seth: Yes

David: ... and looking at the world around me and prayerfully asking God what's going on.

Seth: And, and it's-

David: And it's not... 'Cause I, I feel like a lot of people-

Seth: Yes

David: ... when they try to like get in line with the prophetic, it's-

Seth: How can I hear the voice of God? Yeah.

David: Well, yeah, that. Definitely that. W- and I think that's like more like maybe, yeah, like where we would come from.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: But I think a lot of other people are like, "How do I get in line with the prophets? I need to predict what's gonna happen next-

Seth: Mm

David: ... or when's the end of the world," or-

Seth: Yes, yes, yes

David: ... and it's like, no. Like the prophets are less concerned about predicting, you know, Armageddon, and they're way more concerned with calling people to repentance.

Seth: Yeah, that's right.

David: Prophets, every prophet [laughs] is-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... "Repent."

Seth: Yeah, if you-

David: Return

Seth: ... the word return is used 23 times-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... in the Book of Hosea. Like, it's Hosea's calling his people to repentance-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... not proving he can tell the future.

David: Yes.

Seth: And I also think what you were saying, like, even just our own desire to hear God's voice, but think how intimately linked an expert knowledge of God's word is with recognizing when God is speaking to you.

David: Totally.

Seth: So Hosea-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... is told by God to go and marry a, a, like, a woman of whoredom.

David: Yes. [laughs]

Seth: A woman of whoredom, and he's like, "That's, breaks a lot of my categories of what I should do as a man. How do I know-

David: Right

Seth: ... that's from God?" My guess is he intimately knows God's voice because he's intimately studied God's word-

David: Right

Seth: ... for decades and decades. That's the way you'd know when you hear-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... God's voice, is because you're intimately familiar with the words of God.

David: Yep.

Seth: Anyway.

David: Yeah.

Seth: That's a side note.

David: Yeah, I- I've always thought about, like, my sheep hear me because they know my voice, John 10 stuff, you know?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: As like, okay, I need to train myself to understand when God is talking in my subconscious or it's my inner thoughts. I mean, which one's God's voice?

Seth: Yeah.

David: And it's like, no, the better way to train yourself is have you been listening to God's word?

Seth: Yes.

David: In the Bible.

Seth: Yes.

David: Anyway, I'm just not ev-

Seth: But-

David: That's just really helpful for me

Seth: ... I can't tell you how many teenagers have come to me-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... and like, "Well, how do I hear God's voice about college?"

David: Mm.

Seth: I'm like, "Well, I don't care about that."

David: [laughs] Yeah.

Seth: "Have you read your Bible today?"

David: Right.

Seth: "Do, do you know what God's voice sounds like at all?"

David: Yeah.

Seth: "And then we can worry about whether or not you should go to Philadelphia for college." Like, anyway.

David: Nice. That's helpful. Anyway, a little sidetracked.

Seth: Little sidetracked.

David: But good.

Seth: But that's it. And even on the, going back to the interpreter of the law thing-

David: Oh, yes

Seth: ... as a prophet, uh, you really should go back and read the covenant curses that God pronounces-

David: That's-

Seth: ... over Israel-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... in, uh, Deuteronomy-

David: It's a good background for this book

Seth: ... uh, 28. Uh, and Leviticus, um, 20... Not 21. Uh, Levit- uh, why keep, I keep forgetting where in Leviticus. It's in my notes, but I can't find it. We'll find it for you guys, and we'll tell you in a second. But 20 of the 27 curses that are listed in Deuteronomy 28 are repeated here in Hosea.

David: Mm.

Seth: Like, if you, if you don't have that in the back of your mind, it's gonna be difficult for you to engage in Hosea as prophetic literature, uh, or as Hosea as an, a interpreter of the law.

David: Okay. So then that's a bit of prophetic literature.

Seth: Yep.

David: Uh, people who are familiar with the law who hear God's voice calling God's people to repentance.

Seth: Leviticus 26.

David: Leviticus 26, there you go.

Seth: Leviticus 26, Deuteronomy 28. I was right the first time.

David: Okay.

Seth: I did say that.

David: There you go.

Seth: I just...

David: So, uh, what else is gonna be really helpful for us as we step into Hosea? We've got, like, okay, what is the genre of a prophet? How do... And, like, reading prophetic literature-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... I think, like, I think a lot of people come to reading prophetic literature, and they're like, "Okay, so w- like, what does this mean about the future?"

Seth: Right.

David: And I think that's the wrong question to ask of the text.

Seth: Yeah, I think Hosea's speaking to a particular people at a particular time.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And he's saying to these people, "You should expect..." D- I mean, Hosea's message is, you should expect divorce.

David: Right.

Seth: You should expect destruction for the way in which you have committed adultery in your marriage to the Lord. And he really doesn't offer a ton of hope. He lists all of the ways in which they've failed, and then when he does offer hope, he an- actually, it never offers it to that generation. It's always some future hope-

David: Right

Seth: ... way in the future-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... that's unnamed. So the way, the first way that you should think about prophetic literature, especially the Book of Hosea, is these are the messages to a people who have committed such terrible adultery that they don't have a hope of coming back into God's king-

David: Right

Seth: ... God's presence.

David: Yeah. I think, like, w- I think a, a helpful thing, I'm trying to think, like, broad strokes w- when you're, when you're reading prophetic literature is, like, not when will this tell me Armageddon's coming.

Seth: Yes.

David: You know? But what does this tell me about the character of God?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, that's... Every book in the Bible is a theology book, which means, like, how does this teach me more about God? And here we see God so deeply loves his people that whenever, like, they break covenant with him, it's like a divorce.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And the, a- and we're gonna see how he responds, both with judgment, but then with severe mercy. [laughs] So anyway, okay.

Seth: Yeah, I think if you-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... like, to, just to put the finest-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... point on that, like, don't co- if you spend, wanna spend time studying the ways in which Hosea predicts the future, great. Spend more time focusing on the idea that God is a husband who loves his wife.

David: Yes.

Seth: That's the point that Hosea wants to get across.

David: That's the point.

Seth: Not about whether or not we know the future or not.

David: Yes.

Seth: So just, like, camp out there-

David: Yes

Seth: ... and you'll benefit from Hosea so much more. And I think we should p- say with that then, the reason we wanna talk about what is a prophet, what is prophetic literature, is because Jesus himself, like, fulfills prophetic literature as a genre and as, like, the, the role-

David: The role

Seth: ... of prophet

David: ... the office of prophet.

Seth: Um, Jesus refers to himself as a prophet, um, often enough, and he'll repeat a lot of the same themes, and even quotes from the Book of Hosea-

David: Yes

Seth: ... during his ministry.

David: Yes.

Seth: One of the most famous things that Jesus says is, "I desire mercy, not sacrifice"-

David: Mm. Mm

Seth: ... is from the Book of Hosea.

David: That's right.

Seth: Um, but if someone's gonna say to y- if I, I was gonna ask you the question, like, okay, how does Jesus identify himself as a prophet-

David: Mm

Seth: ... or why is that significant? Like, what would you say to that?

David: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think Jesus obviously continues the role of a prophet, right? He intimately knows the Torah.

Seth: Yep.

David: Like-

Seth: He is the Word made flesh. [laughs]

David: Yeah, listen to him, listen to him teach the law on the Sermon on the Mount. Like, he knows God's law.

Seth: And that would be a function of a prophet, too. He's-

David: Exactly. That's what you're saying. Yep

Seth: ... taking the law and applying it to an, to his-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... people.

David: He obviously hears the words of God, right?

Seth: Yes.

David: He is God himself. He is the Word of God. Not, he, so he doesn't, it's not a third party to whom God is speaking that's then reporting divine revelation. He is God's ultimate divine revelation in the flesh.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So, like, what prophets intimated, Jesus incarnated.

Seth: Mm.

David: And I think that's just-

Seth: That's a good, like-

David: Really cool

Seth: ... some analysis there, too

David: ... I don't know how I just made up with that.

Seth: Yeah. [laughs]

David: I just, I just...

Seth: That's really g-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... no, that's, I don't, I don't even think about, I didn't think I've even thought about the way in which they receive the revelation-

David: Yes

Seth: ... is superseded in Jesus. Like, the prophet was pretty sure they were c- communicating with the divine. Jesus is the-

David: Is the divine

Seth: ... divine.

David: I mean, it's, Hebrew says it clearly. Like, uh, in the past, God spoke to, through us many times in many ways through his prophets, but now in these last days, he has spoken to us by his son. He used to speak to us through prophets, through intermediaries, but now he speaks to us directly through himself, through his son. Like-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... it's, it's different in kind completely, but it's the same thing happening, God speaking to his people, but now he's come to his people. So but then the way J- what Jesus says as prophet is right in line with-The, like, the prophets from the Old Testament. He s- he pronounces woes over his, over, over Israel and over unrepentant generations. He calls people to repent. What's the first thing he says after his ministry's inaugurated?

Seth: Repent.

David: Repent, which is-

Seth: The king-

David: ... Hosea's favorite word

Seth: [laughs] The Kingdom of God is at hand.

David: Return.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Repent. And, like, that's what a prophet does.

Seth: Yeah.

David: He tells people to return because God is going to do something in the geopolitical sphere. The Kingdom of God is near. Not, "Repent for Assyria is near," [laughs] right, like Hosea would be saying. It's, "Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand." Um, and so, like, Jesus is doing th- all these things as the role of the prophet. Um, uh, he's a- and he, he's talking about doom coming. Like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... Jesus was a doom bringer in a lot of ways. But then the, the way that Jesus, um-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... kind of subverts that tradition is that, like, no prophet was ever, ever able to quell or even affect what was inevitably going to transpire in Israel.

Seth: That's true. Like, I think a big part, the, the, the prophets failed.

David: Y- oh, yeah, absolutely.

Seth: The prophets as a title to bring people back to repentance didn't ever really work for Israel.

David: And I think the only way they worked was probably in the way God intended for them to work, which was so that they could stand accused.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, they were told what to do-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... again and again and again. And so, like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... so that God, yeah, that God could be seen as just.

Seth: Yeah. Think about the parable that Jesus tells.

David: The tenants.

Seth: Of, of the tenants-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... where the master sends a messenger-

David: Yep

Seth: ... with, "I'm coming soon. Prepare the harvest," and they kill the messenger.

David: Right.

Seth: So he sends another messenger, they kill him. They send another messenger, they kill him. They're like, "Well, maybe they'll listen to my son." So-

David: And they kill the son

Seth: ... and they kill the son.

David: Yes.

Seth: Like, Jesus sees himself as in this long line of people who were delivering a message about the coming of the king-

David: Right

Seth: ... that people refuse to listen to.

David: Yep.

Seth: And then Jesus will be killed himself. And I love what you said, like, the prophets meant... They couldn't bring the reconciliation they hoped for.

David: That's right.

Seth: But in the moment that Jesus was killed, mirroring the legacy of the prophets-

David: Yep

Seth: ... He does what they could never do.

David: Exactly.

Seth: He actually brings the kingdom near.

David: Yes. Yeah. He is the, the prophet who both speaks of God's judgment and salvation and is the ultimate fulfillment of that very prophecy in h-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... in the cross, where just, where judgment and salvation culminate.

Seth: Yeah, and I think even Hosea, m- I mean, all the prophets, but Hosea really intimately focuses on the need for, like, an intimate relationship with the Lord.

David: Yeah, big time.

Seth: And what does Jesus bring in His new kingdom? New hearts.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like, Jeremiah picks up on this, Ezekiel picks up on this.

David: And sonship.

Seth: Sonship. Like, we are intimately connected with God because of Jesus's death.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: None of the prophets could bring us near God through their life or their death.

David: Right.

Seth: Through Jesus's death, He brings and does what the prophets had not yet done. [gentle music] If you've read the Book of Kings, you know there's just this long cycle of kings that are not that great.

David: Yeah.

Seth: They continually set up idols. They continually forget God's ways.

David: And ignore God's prophets.

Seth: And ignore God's prophets.

David: [laughs]

Seth: So Israel is in the middle of this cycle and nearing the time when the Ins- the Assyrian army will come and destroy them.

David: Right.

Seth: Uh, Israel's already b- had a civil war and s- broken into two divided parts. Hosea is speaking to the Northern Kingdom, which kind of infamously had no good kings in it.

David: Right.

Seth: Wherever, if you read the Book of Kings and they'll say, "This king was good. This king was bad. This king was good. This king was bad," none of the good kings are ever from the north.

David: Mm.

Seth: So the, the idolatry and the adultery of Israel was concentrated in the north.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And that's where Hosea is a prophet. Um, they are, um, under threat of Assyrian invasion, not really because they're on the doorstep with an army, but just Assyria is a growing superpower.

David: Right.

Seth: They're making treaties with Egypt, um, about simultaneously with Hosea-

David: Yep

Seth: ... just as a way to protect themselves. They could even be sending tribute money to Assyria-

David: Yes

Seth: ... to prevent them from attacking.

David: Right.

Seth: Also pretty significant during this time, if you read that list of kings at the very beginning of Hosea, this is actually a time of pretty significant wealth-

David: Yes

Seth: ... in Israel's history.

David: Yep.

Seth: So I think it's really significant that the time of one of the, their wealthiest times-

David: It's their golden age

Seth: ... is also one of the most idolatrous ages.

David: Yep.

Seth: And, like, what does Jesus say, as one of the prophets? That people who are wealthy will have a hard time entering into the Kingdom of God.

David: That's right. Yep.

Seth: So, like, there's, like, [laughs] there's so many parallels to draw there. Um, they also, the Northern Kingdom is also the one that set up the golden calves.

David: Yes.

Seth: So they, one of the ways that, in which their Northern Kingdom was instituted was on adultery.

David: Yep. Yeah.

Seth: I don't know-

David: They're founded on idolatry.

Seth: Yes.

David: Yeah.

Seth: I don't know what more to say about the history exce- without getting into some of the stuff that we'll get into in our first podcast episode.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Uh-

David: No, it's helpful. It's helpful to just name all that. They're in the cycle of disobedient kings. They're in the n- the Northern Kingdom, built on the backs of idols. They're in a time of great wealth, and so they think it's probably due to all the idols they've been building. And, uh, and yet Hosea comes and says, "You think that you've gotten here because of your idols, but your idols-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... will actually be the thing that causes your destruction because Assyria is coming." And so I think that's helpful to name.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Um, I-

Seth: And I think sp- uniquely here in Hosea, you'll, some of the other prophets like Amos will direct most of their, like, oracles towards the king or the-

David: Right

Seth: ... leaders of Israel. Uh, Hosea really addresses it to the people of Israel-

David: And to the priests

Seth: ... and to the priests of Israel. So the, the audience of this book is the religious leaders, which again, what, Jesus talked to the religious leaders-

David: Yes

Seth: ... and the people of Israel more so than he ever did to Pilate or Caesar or anybody.

David: Or the Sadducees.

Seth: Or the Sadducees.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like, he was talking to the people and the priests. So does Hosea. Um, and really a part of that is because they've abandoned their duties, and the people have joined them in worshiping these false gods.

David: Yes.

Seth: So Baal is gonna get brought up over and over again-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... in the Book of Hosea.You wanna talk about Baal worship just as a-

David: Oh, yeah, sure. I always wanna talk about Baal worship. [laughs]

Seth: It's, it's so great. [laughs]

David: Uh, n- Baal is, first and foremost, Baal is more of a general term for-

Seth: Does it mean... It can just mean master-

David: Yeah, master or lord

Seth: ... or lord.

David: Yeah. And so, like, there could be Baal of Peor or Baal of this or Baal of that. And so Baal, in a sense, like, it doesn't always refer to one specific false god but, ah, i- i- in, in history.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But in the Bible, it really did become focused on, um, like, the specific cult practices of-

Seth: Of the Canaanites

David: ... of the Canaanites-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and their lord, who's just here called Baal.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And yeah, and he has some very unique, [laughs] but also not unique, pretty ubiquitous around the ancient Near East types of practices. Uh, and, and it's what, like, what was really prominent is what's called a fertility cult, which you're all really familiar with, so I won't explain it.

Seth: Right.

David: Um, [laughs] no.

Seth: Perfect. Moving on.

David: Moving on. No, um, a- as I'm sure some people probably, like, assumed or you've heard before is, like, older forms of worship, um, in this time would often, like, plead to the gods or make sacrifices to the gods to get rain to fall on their land and to, like, let their harvests grow well because they were so dependent on the land.

Seth: Yeah, they-

David: You know?

Seth: Yeah. I, I've heard one person say, like, idol worship was their technology.

David: Yes.

Seth: Like-

David: Totally

Seth: ... how do you get the crops to grow? Well, you worship the idol.

David: Yes. That's really helpful.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah.

Seth: That's-

David: Exactly right, and so- so much so that, like, they would go, and they would put an idol in the middle of a field and hope that that idol's presence in their field would make it grow.

Seth: Yep.

David: And, um, so that's, that's part of the fertility cult. But then it got... it gets worse. [laughs]

Seth: Yeah, and the f- and fertility there meaning, like, the ground.

David: The ground taking seed in-

Seth: Yes

David: ... and producing fruit.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Now, that idea then gets translated, ah, into human sexuality-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... in wha- in, like, these fertility cults. And they would act out this same type of sowing and reaping through human sexuality. And you would go into Baal's temple. A man would go into Baal's temple. He would pay a temple fee and be given a cult prostitute, a religious prostitute, like a female priest almost.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And they would have sexual relations with that woman, planting in her-

Seth: Seed

David: ... seed-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... in, in order that they would commune with Baal in a spiritual sense-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... so that he would then sow seed on their earth. [laughs]

Seth: Yeah. And it gets even the, kinda, like... Even the mythology gets pretty gross-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... because Baal is this fertility god of storms-

David: Storms

Seth: ... and rain.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So the rain is the semen.

David: Right.

Seth: Like, this is a PG-13 episode. [laughs]

David: Yeah, I think we should-

Seth: You guys should've guessed by now. [laughs]

David: ... flag this one on our description.

Seth: Um, and so, like, the idea is... And then the earth, though, is described as his mother.

David: Right, his womb.

Seth: His womb, and so he is inseminating-

David: Yes

Seth: ... the ground.

David: Right.

Seth: So that's what you're calling the gods to do, and you're hoping that your sex in the temple will excite the lusty god, Baal-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... into doing the same thing for your land.

David: Right, so he watches you have sex in the temple, and that makes his lust enflame, and so then he has sex with the world, basically.

Seth: Right. So the reason we kind of put it so starkly, too, is because the... [laughs]

David: Hosea doesn't pull any punches himself. [laughs]

Seth: Hosea is really not pulling any punches. And, like, God is not bend... like, gonna hide behind euphemisms.

David: No.

Seth: He's calling what he's seeing for what it is-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... a perversion of sexuality on anybody's radar except for them, I guess. [laughs]

David: Yeah.

Seth: I mean, well, I mean, think about it this way. I mean, we said, said, like, they used the idol- idols as, like, technology-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... to, like, get the thing they wanted. Like, we don't really have, like, a subsistence lifestyle.

David: Right.

Seth: But we still, like, digitize or technolo- technologize, like, sex.

David: Yes.

Seth: Like, sex is, purchases something. It purchases significance. It purchases meaning.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: It purchases us freedom from boredom.

David: Right.

Seth: Like, we still use sex the same way that Baal did.

David: Oh, yes.

Seth: But we just, we just call-

David: It's a different thing we're subsiding.

Seth: Yeah, we're di-

David: It's not our hunger for our bellies. It's something else.

Seth: It's, uh, an ex- existential-

David: Dread

Seth: ... emptiness.

David: Yes, emptiness.

Seth: Like, we're-

David: Yeah.

Seth: So, so we do the same thing.

David: Right. We find our meaning through sex a lot of times.

Seth: Yes.

David: Like, at least, like, modern culture.

Seth: Yes.

David: I don't mean you and I.

Seth: [laughs] I mean... [laughs]

David: [laughs] Yes, okay, so that's, that's helpful. Uh-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... I think that is clear-ish.

Seth: And I think that's clear-ish. So, like, that's the temp- That's the background.

David: The religious background.

Seth: The religious background. So when you hear words like sow, reap-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... Baal, adultery, whoring, now you kinda know why.

David: Yes.

Seth: Like, this is what was happening.

David: Yep.

Seth: And really significantly, it was some of Israel's kings that instituted this worship-

David: That's right

Seth: ... in Israel. Ahah- Ahab

David: Yep

Seth: ... Ahaz.

David: Ahaz.

Seth: Ahaz and Jezebel-

David: Yes

Seth: ... were some of the first.

David: Right.

Seth: And we'll talk about them next week, too.

David: Yeah. [gentle music] What's this book about?

Seth: Uh, and I'm, I'm, I'm gonna guess where you're going.

David: Yes.

Seth: I'm gonna guess you'll go to the Garden of Eden.

David: How, how dare you assume that?

Seth: Oh, I mean... [laughs]

David: I mean, I... When have I ever, when developing a theme, gone back to the beginning of the Bible?

Seth: And I mean, I think this is a point that's kind of missed in the creation story, but the, the creation of the world begins and hits its climax in a marriage.

David: Yes.

Seth: Like, the high point of creation is not really the day that God rests. It's the day that Adam and Eve come together.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Like, that's the high point of all creation.

David: Yes.

Seth: And Hosea gives us a really unique moment to look back at that. I'm like, what does that really mean, especially when God thinks Israel's committing adultery?

David: Yes.

Seth: So anyway-

David: So yeah

Seth: ... talk to me about that.

David: Yeah, so main theme being God as the husband, Israel as his wife, and what s- what is spiritual adultery.

Seth: Yeah.

David: What, what word do we wanna use? Spiritual adultery, harlotry, whoredom? [laughs]

Seth: Well, I, I think... I like spiritual adultery.

David: Okay, I, yeah.

Seth: I like idolatry-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... because that's what it is-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... technically. Like, they're worshiping and bowing down to other idols.

David: Right, but it becomes more in the Biblical story than idolatry.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And so spiritual adultery, I think-... is the New Testament way to think about it. Jesus calls them i- adulterers.

Seth: Well, then-

David: And so-

Seth: Let's go with that

David: ... let's go with that. Okay

Seth: Let's go with the words of Jesus.

David: Uh, he's always a, a pretty decent choice. Uh, one thing, too, to note, um, is since the climax of the creation story is a man and a wife-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... you know, coming together, uh, it is also interesting, we talked about this back in our Genesis podcast when we did Genesis 1, that the story of Genesis 1 was written as a rebuke against the Baal of Canaan and against-

Seth: Oh

David: ... the false gods of Egypt.

Seth: That's right.

David: Because it wasn't, like, God impregnating the world or, you know-

Seth: Yes

David: ... anything like that. It was just love and creation, and-

Seth: That's... Oh, I hadn't thought about that.

David: Anyway, so it's just like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... when you refer back to marriage-

Seth: Right

David: ... you're referring also to the creation story, which should shake off-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... the false gods anyway.

Seth: Right. That is interesting. Like, who brings fertility, Baal or God? God does.

David: God. Look at... Yeah, anyway.

Seth: Yeah. Look at creation.

David: And, and so and, and so when you think about fertility, too, that also takes us to marriage. So, you know, God m- God made Adam, made the world, and then, um, God gave Adam this, like, task to find a suitable helper for him, right? And he, like, goes and names all the animals, doesn't find a helper, so from his own body, God makes Eve. And then Adam takes his last naming project and he names-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... his wife Eve, for she-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... is the mother of many.

Seth: All.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Of li- all living.

David: All the living.

Seth: 'Cause her name means life.

David: Right.

Seth: Right.

David: That's right.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah. And so, um, and so then God says, um, um, "For this reason, a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast or cleave to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." And, like, I've really just always viewed that as, like, just the paradigm of marriage, and it is. It's not less than that.

Seth: Leaving your parents, cleaving to your wife.

David: Yeah, and becoming one flesh.

Seth: Yes.

David: But that is also the s-

Seth: Teenage Seth was very excited about leaving and cleaving. [laughs]

David: Leaving and cleaving. Leave it and cleave it.

Seth: [laughs] That was... The evangelical subculture was really into leave it and cleave it. Not that... [laughs]

David: Not the words necessarily. [laughs]

Seth: Well, those words.

David: Oh.

Seth: I heard those words all the time growing up.

David: Well, I never did.

Seth: And I was like... It got... Like, anyway.

David: Leave and cleave.

Seth: Just leave and cleave.

David: That's really funny.

Seth: Anyway.

David: Anyway, but so it's, it's not less than that, teenage Seth, but it is more than that. It's actually the storyline of the whole Bible. Uh, and it is meant to set up the paradigm of God's relationship with his new creation, that-

Seth: Okay

David: ... he is the husband and his new creation is the bride, and his desire is for them to come to him and he, he to them-

Seth: Beautiful

David: ... and for them to become one. And, like-

Seth: Okay

David: ... that's the storyline of the Bible, and we see it happen in the Bible.

Seth: That's so cra- I don't think I've ever thought about, like, that fir- l- as, like, that moment in the tabernacle or in the temple is as sex or, like, union or intimacy. Like-

David: Right, or even reflect the other... That's really crazy. I haven't thought about that. Or, like, a, a pattern that began in creation.

Seth: Yes.

David: Crazy.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So God wanted intimacy with his people.

Seth: Wanted them to come, be u- united to him, and then go out from that intimacy into the world.

David: That's right.

Seth: Bearing fruit.

David: Bearing fruit. Right. So the... Like, they would come together and they would be fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it. And so, like, fruitfulness, which is what Baal offered-

Seth: Mm

David: ... began back with the simple man-woman marriage or God-man marriage that started in Genesis 1. And so God's like, "Just remember that first covenant-"

Seth: Mm

David: "... that was between me and you and you and wife." And, you know, and so that-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... we're all the way back there, and it's, like, the, the bedrock of this, like, romance drama that plays out throughout the whole Bible that Hosea really centers in on.

Seth: That's amazing.

David: Anyway.

Seth: Okay.

David: So then as, as the Torah develops, the first five books of the Bible develop, um, we see more hints at this. We're not, we're not really told that God is a husband until later in the biblical story, but all the themes are there. He's told- we're told that he loves his people and that-

Seth: Mm

David: ... he's jealous for them. Like he says, "My name is jealous."

Seth: Yeah.

David: And it's like, who gets j- y-

Seth: Who gets jealous? Yeah

David: ... who gets jealous and it's good?

Seth: A husband.

David: A husband.

Seth: When his wife cheats on him.

David: When his wife-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... cheats on him.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Not jealous for no reason.

Seth: Right.

David: But, like, if you're not jealous for your wife, you know, whenever-

Seth: Right

David: ... she would, like, love another man, you don't love her. [laughs]

Seth: Yeah.

David: You know? And so, um, God's jealous for his-

Seth: Mm

David: ... for his wife, like a husband should be. Um, and then all throughout the law, there is this special emphasis on marital fidelity and against adul- uh, adultery, you know?

Seth: Yeah. It's kinda like... That's always like the don't have sex before marriage passages.

David: Right. [laughs]

Seth: What you're saying is like, no, no, no, that's actually like a, a... And we- I think we talked about it-

David: We did

Seth: ... in the law.

David: Yes. Wh- when you, when you read a law, you should, you should ask... Yes, you should ask, "What does this require of me as a moral virtue?"

Seth: Right.

David: But you should also ask, "What characteristic of God is this trying to communicate?" Because what God demands and who God is are not divorced from one another.

Seth: Right. God is a God of, like, loving, marital covenant-

David: Right

Seth: ... unity.

David: Yes.

Seth: Like, yeah.

David: God i- God is truth. Therefore, he commands do not lie.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: God wants marital unity with his people. Therefore, do not get a divorce.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And do not commit adultery. Why? Because God is not an adulterer.

Seth: Right.

David: [laughs]

Seth: God is, like, like, a, like, I mean, like... And, like, uh, Hosea blu- blurs these lines between physicality and spirituality-

David: He does

Seth: ... in a way that, like, makes me uncomfortable, but, like, that-

David: God did it first. [laughs]

Seth: God did it first, but that physical, spiritual intimacy that God has with his people is supposed to be reflected in the way that we use our body with other people.

David: Exactly right.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yep. I mean, and that's the same with every law.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Every moral command should have its grounding in our relationship with God.

Seth: Yeah.

David: You know? Like, anyway. So, uh, then it's very interesting, too, that in the law as well, um, when he talks about, uh, okay, you're gonna go into the land, Israel, you're gonna go into the land of Canaan, you're gonna take it over, and then over and over and over again, he a- he tell, he tell, he warns them not to go astray. And the way he does that is through... He warns them of going through a new marriage ceremonySo he, he says the, 'cause the very first step that he says would be the, the, the first mistake you would make to going down the spiral into-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... being a Canaanite and worshiping Baal-

Seth: Right

David: ... is making a treaty or a covenant.

Seth: Oh.

David: And what's a marriage? It's a covenant.

Seth: Mm.

David: So he says, "Don't marry them." And then-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and then, and then he even goes as... So that's like the, the meta version, but then he even sinks down-

Seth: On like a national level

David: ... on a national level, but then he says, "And don't intermarry with them."

Seth: Mm.

David: Right?

Seth: Right, right, right.

David: "And then have their children and worship their gods." And, and so he's like, "You're married to me."

Seth: Right.

David: "Don't go marry them."

Seth: Yes.

David: And so even like from the beginning in the Torah, the idea of worshiping other gods and, um, i- intermarrying to your own spiritual demise was categorized as spiritual adultery.

Seth: Hmm.

David: Harlotry, whoredom, from the beginning.

Seth: Right.

David: Yeah.

Seth: That's super interesting. I had... I don't think I thought about... Like, the intermarriage commands are always like, what does process mean? And like-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... what, what's going on there? It's like, oh, the threat is idolatry, so don't intermarry 'cause, you know-

David: Right

Seth: ... your wife will make you do that. Like, okay, that makes sense.

David: Right.

Seth: But it's, it's more symbolic than... 'Cause I think that's always like the threat is that if you marry somebody, you'll eventually worship their wife.

David: That's right.

Seth: I've always thought-

David: Don't get unequally yoked.

Seth: Yes.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And I've always thought about like, like really like, um, mechanically.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like, if you're spending the rest of your life with somebody and they do all this other stuff that they believe in all these other things, eventually you're gonna like go that direction.

David: Strew that way. Yep.

Seth: But this is... That's like, okay, sure, maybe.

David: Sure, yeah.

Seth: The real issue at hand is like, no, God is a p- is, is a God who has made himself one with his people, and so his people are be, to be one with one another.

David: Yes.

Seth: Not with others.

David: Not with others, right. As a-

Seth: Mm

David: ... physical representation of-

Seth: Right

David: ... a spiritual reality, which is what Hosea does.

Seth: Yeah.

David: He does a physical representation of a spiritual reality. Um, and then, you know, then throughout y- the, the rest of the Torah, you get, um, a, there's several more instances where harlotry or, or adultery is used. It's, it's talked about in Leviticus when sacrificing to goat demons is mentioned [laughs]

Seth: [laughs]

David: That's called adultery.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Sa- a child sacrifice to the god Molech is adultery, on and on.

Seth: Mm.

David: You just kinda get these things. Uh, but, um, and the thing that's told them to keep them from adultery, um, in, in one passage is the tassels that hang from their, their garments-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... that are supposed to remind them of God.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And that would keep them from adultery.

Seth: Hmm.

David: Why? Because it would keep their hearts loving God and trusting him.

Seth: Yep.

David: And so it's this, this intimate re- reminder. And then the last thing I wanna bring up on this thread before we get to Hosea is one of the most interesting cases of adultery, um, spiritual adultery in the Old Testament is not about idolatry or it's not even about foreign gods.

Seth: Okay.

David: Which is really important because a lot of us don't worship other national, you know-

Seth: Right

David: ... religious idols, you know?

Seth: Yeah.

David: But that's not all spiritual adultery can be. So if you go to the story of Gideon-

Seth: In the Book of Judges

David: ... in the Book of Judges, and you remember the, the priestly ephod that he had, it became-

Seth: Didn't he make that for himself?

David: Uh-huh. Yeah.

Seth: Yeah. So yeah.

David: Yeah. And it beca- and it... But it's a religious symbol, and it's a, it was a Jewish religious symbol.

Seth: And if you don't know what an ephod is, it's just a piece of clothing with jewels on it that marks somebody as ready to enter into God's presence.

David: That's right. And so it's like a, that is a Jewish Torah-

Seth: Thing

David: ... thing. It's not syncretistic. It's not outside of their religion. It would-

Seth: Mm

David: ... feel like walking into a church and seeing a cross.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Right?

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: But it became an idol to them, and it's, and Judges says that the people whored after it.

Seth: Mm.

David: They were spiritual adulterers toward this ephod because they began to trust it and had pride in it-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and loved it and God.

Seth: Yeah, I think the, like, the storyline which you're painting is, like, God has always wanted wholehearted affection.

David: Undivided affection.

Seth: Undivided, unalloyed allegiance-

David: Yep

Seth: ... and love.

David: Right.

Seth: And-

David: Like a husband would want from his wife.

Seth: Yes.

David: It's not, he's not asking for too much. [laughs]

Seth: Right. It's like you, like, I think you said it before we went on the air, it's like, I, it's not that I don't want my wife loving me more than other men. I don't want her to love-

David: Other men at all

Seth: ... at all. [laughs]

David: I don't care if she loves another guy a little bit.

Seth: Right. It's like-

David: [laughs] I don't want it at all

Seth: ... if she's like 20% attracted to him, I'm not okay with that.

David: [laughs] I'm jealous about that. And that's a good jealousy.

Seth: Uh-uh.

David: Uh, a- and like, anyway, and so that's what... And, and I think what, what-

Seth: If I was to divide my time between a girl at Starbucks and-

David: Right

Seth: ... my family, that's a pr- my wife would be legitimately jealous for my time.

David: Even if you spent eight hours with her and one hour... Yes, exactly.

Seth: It doesn't matter.

David: It doesn't matter. Um, and so I think, I think-

Seth: And even half if I play video games.

David: Right. [laughs]

Seth: It's like, "No, that's my time, Seth."

David: Right. [laughs]

Seth: My wife is amazing.

David: Yes, she is.

Seth: And it's my fault for playing video games.

David: Yes, it is.

Seth: But [laughs] anyway.

David: Okay, so-

Seth: The point has been made. [laughs]

David: The point... So I think what to stop and, and think about here is, um, just something that we were reflecting on before we came on air. As we were praying, I was just like, "I don't think about God's l- love for me that way," that when I do something wrong-

Seth: Mm

David: ... I think he's upset, disappointed-

Seth: Right

David: ... grieved, sad, you know, wants something better for me. You know, you can, you can do it-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... in, in varying degrees of legalistic, you know, frameworks. But I don't see him as jealous. Like, whenever I do something wrong that makes, gives my heart to something else-

Seth: Mm

David: ... like, oh, maybe this sexual encounter or-

Seth: Right

David: ... or this meal or this trip will give me the satisfaction I want, even just a little bit.

Seth: Right.

David: That God is just jealous for me.

Seth: It, yeah, like-

David: He wants me.

Seth: It takes it away from the action itself-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... and the, i- the, the intimacy-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... the closeness that's sup- that's supposed to, like, that's supposed to be there. It's not about sleeping with that person, going to that person-

David: Right

Seth: ... although that's on the table. The real issue is, like, you divided your affection.

David: Yeah.

Seth: You've divided your loyalty. You've spent s- time with someone else when you could have spent time with your spouse.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And you made that choice deliberately, and God is jealous for affections.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like, that's a really powerfulReally powerful and emotive way to talk about sin-

David: Right

Seth: ... that I don't, I don't talk about that.

David: Sin is giving your heart to something other than God-

Seth: S-

David: ... even a little bit of it.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yep.

Seth: I think of sin as infraction.

David: Yes. Right, doing the wrong thing.

Seth: A legal mistake.

David: Not loving something other than God.

Seth: Right.

David: Right. So anyway-

Seth: And then God's response then is not a judge, but as a husband.

David: A husband. Yeah.

Seth: Which is, I think, and I think I, and maybe just the traditions I grew up in that God as judge was one of the primary metaphors-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... through which I viewed my relationship with God and my relationship with sin. You do something wrong, you broke a rule, guilty.

David: Right.

Seth: Legitimate category to think about God.

David: Yes.

Seth: But I, I, I think to potentially the harm of not seeing God as a husband-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... at least that wasn't built out for me the way that I would want it to now that I'm thinking about it-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... you know.

David: Yeah. And it's like I just, not only is it do we just have a different way of viewing how God thinks about us when we sin, right-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... as being jealous-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... but it just also in makes God's love for us so fierce, that it's just like He loves me-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... so much that He gets jealous when I love something other than Him. And like not jealous like, "Oh, I'm so mad at you." He's like, "Love me." Like, "Would you please love, I want you to love me."

Seth: Yeah. I love you.

David: I love you-

Seth: Right

David: ... so much. Would you love me? And I just don't, I don't think about God that way enough.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And I'm just like, man. So anyway, I'm really hoping Hosea-

Seth: Yes

David: ... wakes me up to that more. I want my, my affections, you know, stirred for that. So anyway, that's kinda gets us to Hosea, right? So Hosea-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... we get to Hosea, and what we have is we have a bunch of people in the Northern Kingdom of Israel who have loved things other than God or alongside God, right?

Seth: Mm-hmm. Right.

David: And it doesn't matter if they loved Him them more or trusted them more-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... it's that they trusted and loved them at all.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Uh, and I think a very easy argument could be made that they loved and trusted them more than God. [laughs]

Seth: Yeah.

David: Um, and, and so I think that gets into a second theme a little bit, right? Uh, w-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... we blend here, which is just like what was going on in Israel was this like, uh-

Seth: W- what are you asking?

David: Oh, there was, we, we had three themes. There was one that was like-

Seth: Oh, we, we talked about idolatry and adultery.

David: Yes.

Seth: So we talked about that-

David: Right

Seth: ... extensively. We talked about God's judgment needs a reason.

David: Oh, yeah. And then it was, and then-

Seth: And then the thought was intimacy over-

David: In- intimacy over ritual.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah. And so-

Seth: So if you- we have three ma- major theme which we wanna communicate to you.

David: Yeah.

Seth: The first is idolatry and spiritual adultery.

David: Right.

Seth: And the second is in Hosea, really uniquely, you have this desire to communicate intimacy with God over ritual obedience-

David: Right

Seth: ... to God.

David: So Israel, um... And when you... I should say this, I meant to say it earlier when we were talking about the divided kingdom. When we say, whenever you read Israel in Hosea, it's talking about the Northern Kingdom.

Seth: The disobedient Northern Kingdom.

David: And then whenever you hear Judah, those are the two tribes in the Southern Kingdom where the temple is.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Okay. Um-

Seth: That were pretty bad still, but had just gone under like a revival with King Hezekiah.

David: That's right.

Seth: They're, they're doing okay.

David: They're doing okay.

Seth: They're doing okay.

David: Yeah. Not in the long term, but anyway.

Seth: For now.

David: Uh, and so, um, in the north, the people were still performing all of the Jewish Torah rituals they were supposed to. Whenever Hosea comes to them and tells them that they're, that like they've ig- been ignoring God and they don't love Him anymore, they're like, "Uh, we love offering sacrifices to God. We, we, we know God, and He knows us. What do you mean we've betrayed God?" You know, to put it in modern terms like-

Seth: Right

David: ... "Are you kidding me? I go to church every Sunday."

Seth: Yeah. What do you mean?

David: "What are you talking about?" Like, "I've ignored God." And he's like... And, and so they, they do the rituals right, and they d- and they love the rituals, you know? Uh-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... but they, they don't have intimacy with God. And so there's that famous statement in chapter six of Hosea where Hosea says, or God says, "I desire steadfast love, not sacrifice."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "I want intimacy. I want covenant love." Covenant love the, is the word that's there, and that's the love between a husband and a wife.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like-

Seth: It's that, it's that intimate union thing that started in Genesis-

David: Yes

Seth: ... and comes with like expectations, don't hang out with other men. [laughs]

David: Right.

Seth: Like, there's like, that type of love-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... the wholehearted, unalloyed, single-minded devotion to one is the thing that God wants.

David: Right. Yeah. I don't... Y- do I like it when my wife surprises me with a present? Yes. But what if she only did that and she didn't love me? [laughs] Like-

Seth: Right

David: ... I don't want like a new video game or whatever she would get me.

Seth: Right.

David: I want, I want you to love me. Now, then do I want you to do things that show me you love me, like sacrifice-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... you know, for God? Yes. He commanded it. But like don't put the cart before the horse here.

Seth: Yeah, if you do all the ritual observances but don't love God, it's not worth anything.

David: Right. First, 1 Corinthians 13.

Seth: I w- I was, I was thinking about the same thing.

David: Yeah. [laughs]

Seth: It's like, uh, if I have love that, and faith that can move mountains, I'm just a cl- but not love.

David: But not love, yeah.

Seth: I'm a clinging gong. I'm-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... noise-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... a noisy cymbal.

David: I, I think he says like, "If I prophesied about the future and knew all these things high and low, but I didn't-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... love God, I didn't have love, I'd have nothing."

Seth: Yeah.

David: It's the same thing. Like God wants our hearts. It doesn't mean He doesn't want obedience.

Seth: Right.

David: Right? He doesn't say, "I desire love and not sacrifice." [laughs] Right? Like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... just throw that out.

Seth: Right.

David: You know? Uh, it's-

Seth: And the way that worked out in Israel's history too, w- just to tie it back to adultery-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... is that things that God had given them through his relationship of intimacy, like crops-

David: Yes

Seth: ... and land. Like the fertility in the land, where did that come from? It still comes from God.

David: Right.

Seth: But they're worshiping Baal for it.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So there's this really... All these passages that you thought the gifts I gave you came from Baal-

David: Right

Seth: ... and so you started giving him your affection and love-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and adding sacrifices to him on top of sacrifices to me. It's like, what is going on? Of course, I gave you everything. Do you remember the creation story? Do you remember the manna in the wilderness?

David: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Seth: Do you remember our whole narrative? I've given you everything, and now you're worshiping him for it?

David: Right.

Seth: That's-

David: Yeah. And so it's no wonder Israel loved ritual. You know, i- uh, the, the rituals of Baal worship seemed to work in her favor. As she worshiped Baal and incorporated more with Baaline practices, like they got richerYou know-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... God blessed them in spite of their Baal worship.

Seth: This is, this is Israel's golden age. We said it right in the podcast.

David: Right.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And so they started saying like, "Oh, well, more ritual, more blessing."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: You know, and so they doubled down on ritual.

Seth: And then just the really physic- like, the physicality of it. You have the men in power, they could have sex with women whenever they want.

David: Right.

Seth: And it's holy.

David: Right.

Seth: Air quotes.

David: Yes, air quotes that you're doing.

Seth: That I have, but, yeah, like, so it's like, man, like, we are looking for ways to justify our sexual experience all the time and call it fine.

David: Yes.

Seth: Like, s- particularly men. Like we [chuckles] like-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... it's like it's not outside the new still. It's like we're always trying to justify ways in which we can take advantage of people so that we can be sexually energized. Like, this is the human heart for all of history.

David: Yep.

Seth: And God says it's adul- spiritual adultery, but more so, importantly than that, it's a forgetting of the intimacy he desires with us.

David: Right. So let's tie those together then that, um... And I think this will hit close to home. I mean, like, I think a lot of us can feel, like, ritualistic in our observance of God. Like, we go to church, we do the thing, we read our Bible, you know, and it's like, those are good God-given things. Like the temple, the law, the sacrifices, those were good things that Israel was doing, but they were doing them without the love of God. And so I, it's just like Hosea offers us a challenge-

Seth: Mm

David: ... to, like, ask us if we're adulterers.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And that's just like, are you doing, like, are you doing the marriage things, but you're not loving the groom?

Seth: Yeah.

David: You know.

Seth: Yeah. I'm trying to think. Like, I'm try- like, I'm tr- I'm gonna try to make it as earthy as Hosea makes it, but it's-

David: Oh, it's hard. Yeah

Seth: ... but it's like, in chapter three, Hosea will have to end up remarrying Gomer.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And says, "You can't sleep with other men, and I'm actually not gonna sleep with you for a while until we rebuild trust." That's kinda like the-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... application. Um, there's a really real... Like, we're leaving God's love and intimacy on the line-

David: Mm

Seth: ... when we sin and when we trust other things.

David: Yep.

Seth: Like, there's actually real... Like, there is an, an analogy to sexual pleasure in experiencing God that we're missing out on when we choose to have something else.

David: Yes.

Seth: We choose to trust something else-

David: Yep

Seth: ... believe in something else, in the same way that, like, we miss out on intimacy with a spouse because we're chasing after it with intimacy with somebody else.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: The same thing happens in our relationship with God, and Hosea is inviting us to want that really tactile, physical, sensual, sen- like sensational-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... experience of God's love by saying no to the things that we wanna run to.

David: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And then I think the third theme kind of, like, g- comes after this-

Seth: Yes

David: ... is this idea that, um, every time God judges his people through Hosea or promises judgment to his people through Hosea, he does two things. We've talked about it already.

Seth: Mm.

David: He first grounds it in a specific law that they've broken in the Old Testament.

Seth: Yeah.

David: He says, "I'm gonna judge you because of this." And there is legal grounding, guilty in court. Like-

Seth: This goes back to the f-

David: If, if there was a divorce lawyer present-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... he, he would've had the... You know, he would've gotten keep the kids, you know? [laughs]

Seth: Yes. Yeah. Like, it goes back to the fact that Hosea is repeating 20 of the 27 curses.

David: Yes.

Seth: Like, he's repeating covenant-breaking Israel does and said, "The consequence of this is exile."

David: Right.

Seth: "The consequence of this is you're no longer my people. The consequence of this is you're gonna go to that nation because you did this, because you did this, because you did this."

David: That's right.

Seth: And if you go throughout it, the whole book, there is never a curse that doesn't have a reason.

David: That's right. But then, so, so that's, that's really clear.

Seth: Yeah.

David: The weird thing, and it shocked me, you even told me this before I read through it, and the weird thing about Hosea is, um, for... And, and, like, the, the way God talks about his judgment is scary. Like, "You're not my people. I'll have no mercy." Like, it's intense. And I'm like, "Oh, okay." And like, yeah, I see why. There's the grounding for it. But then out of nowhere, he'll just be like, "But I will have compassion on my people, and I will woo them back to me, and I will love them with an everlasting love," and all this stuff, and we're never given a reason. We're never told because they love me or because they returned or because... And we get that in some other prophets.

Seth: Never in Hosea.

David: Not in Hosea.

Seth: Every punishment has a reason. Every expression of God's love never does.

David: Yeah.

Seth: It's profound.

David: It is profound.

Seth: It's, uh, like, God's judgment needs a reason, but his compassion never does.

David: Right. And the point of that is to highlight God as the best husband ever.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, God as the husband who comes to his bride when she doesn't deserve it, when she's left him-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and, like, just loves her-

Seth: [coughs]

David: ... with f- like, ferocity all over again. And I think one of the, one of the interesting things that comes up whenever God does that is he doesn't come to her and say, "And then I will return my harlot bride to myself, and we'll try to move past it." You know, I, you know, you think about an earthly marriage-

Seth: Mm

David: ... where it's like, a, a husband and a wife, they get married. The wife cheats. The husband, um, decides to continue to pursue her. They get back together, and they w- you know, go to a counselor, and they work past the marital infidelity, and they end up having a healthy marriage. It's a little different here. It's very different here because God remakes his bride-

Seth: Mm

David: ... into, like, a new spotless bride, and, uh, he doesn't m- like, he doesn't marry her again. The word they use is betroth her again.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: They get engaged again. He proposes, and the reason why he brings it up that way is to, like, show that w- it's a fresh start.

Seth: Mm.

David: You're a new bride.

Seth: Yeah.

David: I'm not picking up where we left off. I'm doing a new cr- I'm ma- I'm starting a new creation in you.

Seth: Mm.

David: Like, we're going back to the Garden of Eden, you know?

Seth: Yeah.

David: A- anyway, it's just like... And, and, and I don't need a reason to love you like that.

Seth: Yeah.

David: I love you because I love you, and that's something to me that I just like... I think that's probably one of the hardest things in my Christian walk to believe is that-

Seth: God doesn't need a reason to love me

David: ... God doesn't need a reason to love me.

Seth: God so loved the world.That he gave his only son.

David: Okay, but why?

Seth: [laughs] Because God loved the world.

David: Because God loved the world.

Seth: The sinful, broken-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... whorish world.

David: He loved.

Seth: God loved.

David: And loves. And I, that's just, ugh.

Seth: I was listening to, like he, he wa- he's not a Christian thinker, but he, he, he calls himself a born-again pagan. I can't remember [laughs] his name.

David: Oh.

Seth: Anyway, he was talking about the character of true love, and he talked about it in these terms. He said, like, "Whenever you're young, you love people for reasons. You love them because they're beaut-," like your attraction is based on something about them.

David: Mm.

Seth: You think they're beautiful. You think they're funny. You think they're smart. You think they're sexy, whatever it is.

David: Yeah.

Seth: That's why you love them. That's why you like them. That's why you get married. But as you age and all those things kinda pass away-

David: Mm

Seth: ... like nobody, nobody in their 80s is convinced the other person's sexy anymore.

David: [laughs]

Seth: Like, [laughs] you know, like there's no like you fought for decades together. Like you, there's like they, they're not funny anymore. You've heard all their jokes. They're tired. Like you're dying, but you still love one another. Why? Just because you do.

David: Right.

Seth: And he's like that type of 80-year-old love is... He's like that's the purest form of love.

David: Yeah, and God's is eternal and timeless-

Seth: And-

David: ... and like He can love in a way no one else can.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Because like if we, if, if the older we get, our love is trending toward some semblance of true love, like he's-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... talking about here, where we can love just for loving that person's sake. But like, as we get older, we're like nearing toward this eternal bent or something.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Then God is superseding that and forever-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and like loves because He loves because He can.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Forever.

Seth: And it's... Like I don't e- like even, I have been, I've been married 10 years.

David: Yeah.

Seth: I've had kids for a few, a few less years than that, and it's like I think the b- better analogy for me is almost I love my kids for no reason-

David: Yes

Seth: ... other than the fact that they're my kids.

David: Right. They give you a lot of reasons not to love them.

Seth: They give me so many reasons-

David: [laughs]

Seth: ... not to love them. But like why do I love them? Because you're my, my daughter.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Period.

David: Right.

Seth: Um-

David: Yes

Seth: ... and that theme is one of the main themes of the Book of Hosea.

David: It is.

Seth: And it's seen in Jesus.

David: Yes.

Seth: Yeah, have we, we talked about this yet?

David: N- no.

Seth: Oh, we did. I just-

David: We kinda-

Seth: ... quoted John 3:16.

David: Well, yeah, but, but, like why did Jesus die on the cross for us? Because we deserved it?

Seth: While we were still whores, Christ died for us.

David: Yes.

Seth: While we were still sinners, while we were still enemies, Christ died for us.

David: That's right. Yeah, it's-

Seth: We are never given a reason in the Gospels, are we-

David: That's right. No

Seth: ... for Jesus's death on the cross?

David: No. No.

Seth: Out of his great love for us.

David: Out of his great love for us.

Seth: But God, rich in mercy-

David: Yes

Seth: ... because of the steadfast lo- his great love for us.

David: It, it is by grace you have been saved, not by works, so that no man can boast, for it is a gift from God.

Seth: Mm.

David: Ephesians 2, like we are saved by grace alone because of the great love with which he loved us. Like if you wanna meditate on that, go, yeah, go read Ephesians 1 and 2. Those, that's a great place to go.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Uh, anyway, uh, Jesus died on the cross for us, taking the judgment that was grounded in the-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... Old Testament law.

Seth: Yeah.

David: You know, and in the fabric of reality. We were whores that had broken our covenant with God, and Jesus took the punishment that the Assyrians brought on Northern Israel. He took that punishment for them-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and then gave groundless grace to a bunch of prostitutes, which is why Jesus goes to prostitutes. [laughs]

Seth: Oh, well, yeah. [laughs]

David: [laughs] The New Testament.

Seth: Was that just an epiphany that, at that moment?

David: I just don't think I've made the explicit connection.

Seth: Yeah, I was like, why is it that Jesus, during his ministry, is going to the sexually immoral-

David: Right

Seth: ... and the, the, the, the politically treasonous?

David: Yes.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Mary Magdalene.

Seth: Yes.

David: Yeah. Oh.

Seth: That's his heart.

David: To show us that-

Seth: His heart is for those-

David: Who have, like broken his.

Seth: Yeah. Yeah.

David: Man.

Seth: The Book of Hosea, guys.

David: Okay, well, I'm excited to keep going on this. So yeah, that's the Book of Hosea. We'll dive into more-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... specifics later.

Seth: We'll do cha- next week, we'll be in chapters one to three.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And that kinda gets to the center, like the center metaphor-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... central metaphor-

David: Yes

Seth: ... for the whole book. It's whoredom and merri- marriage.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And we'll talk about all the complicate, co- complexities there. Uh, so yeah, we'll see you next week in Hosea 1 to 3. [upbeat music]

Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel Podcast. Spoken Gospel is a nonprofit that gives all its resources, like this podcast, away for free because of supporters like you. To help Spoken Gospel in our mission to speak the gospel out of every corner of Scripture and view all our free resources, visit spokengospel.com. [upbeat music]

Related Resources

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Introducing the Book of Hosea: A Shocking Love Story Between God and His People

Show Notes

What Is a Prophet, and Why Does It Matter?

The Historical World of Hosea

Baal Worship and the Fertility Cult

The Bible's Marriage Theme: From Eden to Hosea

Grounded Judgment, Groundless Grace

Related Resources

Introduction to Hosea

View our devotional on Hosea 1

Ready to study a different book?

Listen to the Hosea Introduction podcast

Listen to the Hosea 1-3: A Whore Bride podcast

Listen to the Hosea 4:1-5:7: Oracles of Doom podcast

Listen to the Hosea 5:8-11:11: Politics and Religion podcast

Listen to the Hosea 11:12-14:9: Relentless Judgement and Free Love podcast