Seth: [electronic music] Because that means I can count it joy, David-
David: Mm
Seth: ... when I meet trials of various kinds because I can know that the testing of my faith will produce endurance, which will produce a perfect and complete life.
David: Ah.
Seth: I can know every trial has been designed to give me life.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Every piece of suffering, every humiliation I experience is meant to give me more life. [electronic music]
Intro: Welcome to the Spoken Gospel Podcast. Spoken Gospel is a ministry that's dedicated to speaking the gospel out of every corner of scripture. In Luke 24, Jesus told his disciples that every part of the Bible was about him. So each week, hosts David and Seth work through a passage of scripture to see how it's all about Jesus and his good news. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]
David: Well, welcome everyone to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. Seth, are you as excited about an adventuresome etymology as I am? [laughs]
Seth: Oh, I, through sighs and tears, I will listen to the adventuresome etymology that you're about to give us. We're in the Book of James.
David: Are we? [laughs]
Seth: Uh, the overview of the Book of James in our English Bibles. However, the Hebrew name, the Gre-
David: The Greek name
Seth: ... the Greek name-
David: The Latin name
Seth: ... the Latin name-
David: [laughs] Is not James
Seth: ... it is the Book of Jacob.
David: It's Jacob. His name is Jacob.
Seth: And then somehow we call him James.
David: Yeah. I don't really wanna go through the-
Seth: Oh, you don't?
David: ... adventuresome etymology.
Seth: You don't? I thought you really did. [laughs]
David: I just wanted to let everyone know that his name is not James, it's Jacob.
Seth: It's Jacob.
David: It got translated from Greek to Latin, and then there was a spelling change in Latin that then got picked up in French and German that finally introduced an M into the mix.
Seth: And then we, and we got to James.
David: And we, we got to James. His name is not James.
Seth: Its na- It's-
David: It's Jacob
Seth: ... it's Jacob
David: ... the father of Israel.
Seth: The father of Israel. That's-
David: Okay.
Seth: It's the Book of James, the Book of Jacob.
David: Yeah.
Seth: It is probably the most egregious spelling-
David: That is-
Seth: ... like pronunciation change-
David: ... intense
Seth: ... that I'm aware of in like the, the Bible names.
David: Yeah.
Seth: You know?
David: Anyway, so the Book of James-
Seth: The Book of James / Jacob-
David: ... Jacob. Okay
Seth: ... is what we're talking about today.
David: Right. Which I think is really exciting. I love this book. Lots of people love this book. Martin Luther didn't like this book.
Seth: He did not like this book. [laughs]
David: This, this is one of the few books that people throughout church history have tried to de-canonize.
Seth: That's crazy.
David: Yeah, because of its-
Seth: And often-
David: ... focus on good works
Seth: ... and the book that I most frequently hear as people's favorite book.
David: Right. People do love the Book of James. It's immensely practical.
Seth: Yeah, that's what everyone says.
David: Yeah.
Seth: "It's so practical. I finally know what the Bible's talking about."
David: Right. It's been called-
Seth: "Stop showing favoritism."
David: Right. Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: "Oh, thank-"
David: Oh, thank you.
Seth: Thank you-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... for speaking clearly for once."
David: The same reason why people love Proverbs.
Seth: Yes.
David: It's been called the Proverbs of the New Testament.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And probably for good reason.
Seth: Yes.
David: And we'll get into that.
Seth: Yeah.
David: But first things first, what is the Book of Jacob about?
Seth: Uh, the Book of Jacob-
David: It's gonna throw you off now, isn't it? [laughs] I'm gonna do it the whole podcast though.
Seth: Uh, I believe that James understands-
David: Who?
Seth: Jacob.
David: [laughs]
Seth: James understa- [laughs] I wi-
David: [laughs]
Seth: For the sake of clarity-
David: Okay. Okay
Seth: ... we must decide. [laughs]
David: I just had to get the joke out. It can be James.
Seth: It is James.
David: Okay.
Seth: It is Jacob, but we will say James-
David: All right
Seth: ... for the sake of clarity.
David: Okay.
Seth: Uh, James understands that Jesus is the smartest king that has ever lived.
David: [laughs] Okay. That's, I don't think that was anybody w- w- was anybody-
Seth: Um
David: ... anybody was expecting that.
Seth: No, uh, but like, so bear with me for a second. I think James believes that Jesus is the smartest king that's ever lived, and the Book of James is inviting us to consider what it means to be a model citizen in King Jesus' kingdom.
David: Okay.
Seth: Uh-
David: I like, I like that.
Seth: I think that's one way to frame what's happening in the Book of James. Let me prove it to you-
David: Okay
Seth: ... for a second.
David: Do it.
Seth: So one, James is also Jesus' brother.
David: Yes.
Seth: Which is just a fun fact. Jesus had brothers. James was one of them.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And more fun fact, James called Jesus crazy at one point in his life. [laughs]
David: [laughs]
Seth: In Mark chapter 3, like, he's, his family, as Jesus is preaching his wisdom, they call him crazy.
David: Right.
Seth: And they try to cart him away. So I think it's really fascinating that he's now venerating his brother-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... as one of the wisest men in world history-
David: Right
Seth: ... which is really fascinating. But the reason why I say that James understands Jesus to be the smartest king that's ever lived is because what James does really masterfully throughout his whole book is blend the Book of Proverbs-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and the Sermon on the Mount-
David: Mm
Seth: ... on top of each other in really interesting and unique ways. He takes the Hebrew Bible in the style of the Book of Proverbs-
David: Yep
Seth: ... this kingly wisdom, and mixes it with J- what Jesus said throughout his life, particularly on the Sermon on the Mount.
David: Whoa.
Seth: So that, that's like, well, how does that get us to king?
David: Okay.
Seth: How does that get us to smartest king?
David: Yeah.
Seth: So what is the Book of Proverbs?
David: It's the instruction of literally the wisest earthly king-
Seth: Right
David: ... to his son.
Seth: Yeah. The Book of Proverbs w- written by Solomon, the wisest king on Earth, to his son.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Contains the wisdom of the wisest king.
David: And I think it was also him trying to apply Torah-
Seth: Yep
David: ... the law's instruction-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... to his son in a boots on the ground way.
Seth: Yeah.
David: This is what the law looks like lived out.
Seth: Yes.
David: Okay?
Seth: Particularly as he takes the throne.
David: Rule the throne. Yeah.
Seth: Yeah, yeah. And then what does Jesus do on the Sermon on the Mount? It is his manifesto to his new kingdom.
David: Right.
Seth: He's acting like a king of a new kingdom-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... giving his manifesto of what it looks like for the meek to inherit the earth.
David: Right.
Seth: Like-
David: He's applying Torah-
Seth: He's applying Torah
David: ... as the new king-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... to a new people.
Seth: Yes.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And so the fact that James is just mixing these two spaces in scripture-
David: Mm
Seth: ... should just populate your mind with like, okay, wisdom's on the line, kingship's on the line-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... kingdoms are on the line, a list of laws is on the line, rules to rule a nation are on the line. I think that's why I wanted to start there-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... because if we don't get that James is pulling on wisdom tradition-
David: Right
Seth: ... and, like, Jewish legal tradition, we're not really gonna understand some of the i- internal motivations James is bringing-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... throughout his book.
David: Okay. That's pretty cool.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Okay, then help me position myself, and everyone listening-... i-into like how should we approach this book because I think when we talked about Proverbs-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... I remember us talking about can we kinda pretend to be sons of the king for a second?
Seth: Yeah.
David: And the, "Okay, let me receive the royal wisdom of my dad," and-
Seth: Yeah, yeah
David: ... that was like a really fun exercise.
Seth: Yes.
David: And here there's a lot of commandments.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: There's a l- a lot of stuff that, you know, we hear, and I've heard people either leave James feeling like they really wanna go gung ho and they know what they're doing. I've also felt people, like, read James feeling like, "I'll never be able to live up to this book."
Seth: Yeah.
David: So, like, how do I enter into this book-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... with all that Proverbs, Sermon on the Mount, king, Jewish law stuff going on?
Seth: I think one way to, to enter into the Book of James is as a citizen of a kingdom rather than as an individual trying to please somebody.
David: Mm.
Seth: 'Cause I think if I'm gonna become a citizen of a new country, I'm like, I know I'm entering into a culture that's different from my own. It has a set of values that I'm not familiar with, but I'm willing to learn. It has laws that I probably can intuit most of, but there's probably some ones I don't quite get yet that I'll need to be made aware of before I start driving on the road.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And so, like, I come into a country I'm unfamiliar with with a certain degree of humility, like, okay, what's the values of the land-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and what are the laws I need to know to live well within it? And so I think that may be a good place to start because if we come in on a more individual level and say like, "Well, what is it commanding me to do," I'll either have one of those two responses. Let's get to work.
David: Yep.
Seth: Or, man, that's a lot to do.
David: Right. [laughs]
Seth: Uh, but if we're like, no, we're being invited into the royal messianic wisdom of a wise ruler-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... the smartest king that's ever lived, and he's like, "This is how we should operate-
David: Okay
Seth: ... in the kingdom of God."
David: Great. I love that. That's very helpful.
Seth: [laughs]
David: Uh, second, uh, James is trying to get me to understand who I am, a citizen of the kingdom.
Seth: Mm.
David: But then who is he trying to get me to see his brother as-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... uh, Jesus. Y-You said the smartest king who ever lived.
Seth: Yes.
David: So, like, who should I have in mind as I'm thinking about Jesus when I read the Book of Jacob, I mean James?
Seth: [laughs] It's gonna keep... It's just gonna keep rolling.
David: Just once in a while. Just once in a while.
Seth: Um, well, I think we've already named wisdom. He's, like, pulling on the tradition of Proverbs.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And then multiple times throughout the letter he's gonna just talk about the wisdom of God, the wisdom that's necessary to live our lives. So, like, he wants us to see Jesus as a wise person.
David: Okay.
Seth: So-
David: Yep
Seth: ... step one, but he also wants us to see Jesus as a king who gives laws.
David: Mm.
Seth: He's gonna call the greatest commandment that Jesus ever gave, love God and love neighbor.
David: Uh-huh.
Seth: So, like, we like, "Oh, that's a law."
David: Right.
Seth: And he's summarizing all of the Old Testament law in those two laws, the greatest commandment, love God and love neighbor.
David: Yeah.
Seth: What James says is happening in that moment is that Jesus is giving a royal law.
David: Hmm.
Seth: Like, in that moment, Jesus, as a king of a new country, is saying, "This is the founding principle of my... This is the new constitution-
David: Mm
Seth: ... of my new country."
David: Ooh, yeah.
Seth: Love God, love neighbor. And so he's inviting us to see Jesus as a king who institutes laws for the benefit of his kingdom.
David: Okay. That's super cool.
Seth: Yeah.
David: I can't help but ask a leading question then.
Seth: Then great.
David: What does all that have to do with the opening verse of James?
Seth: [laughs] Great question.
David: Leading the witness, Your Honor.
Seth: Verse one?
David: Yeah, verse one.
Seth: So James, a servant of God, and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the 12 tribes in the dispersion, greeting.
David: Yeah. It's a very unique addressee-
Seth: Yes
David: ... for the New Testament letters. The greet to the 12 tribes in the dispersion.
Seth: Yes.
David: What's going on there?
Seth: Well, first thing, notice that he doesn't call himself Jesus's brother.
David: Right.
Seth: He calls him- himself Jesus's slave.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Which, what a humble position for a brother to take.
David: [laughs]
Seth: But secondly, to the 12 tribes in the dispersion. So in the dispersion is a reference backwards in Israel's history when the 12 tribes of Israel were scattered among the lands that Babylon had conquered. Babylon-
David: Oh, so it's like exile.
Seth: Exile. Babylon came in, burned down the temple, exiled a whole bunch of people back to their city or spread them throughout their conquered lands. So, which is weird because like, well, that was a long time ago, James, that's not still happening, is it?
David: Hmm.
Seth: But in one sense it is. Jews have been scattered around the world since that point in time.
David: Right.
Seth: And so in a sense, the 12 tribes of Israel that are scattered throughout the world, the Messiah is still speaking to you. I haven't used that word yet, Messiah.
David: Hmm.
Seth: But, like, the royal king, the king who will save the world, like throughout Jewish literature-
David: Was-
Seth: ... is called the Messiah
David: ... Messiah, the Anointed One, which every king was a messiah.
Seth: Yeah, Solomon was called-
David: It just means-
Seth: ... Messiah
David: ... to be anointed.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Which was the way you became king was-
Seth: Through anointing
David: ... a, God's prophet would anoint you.
Seth: Christ just means Messiah. So he, he's saying to the 12 tribes, "You still have a Messiah even though-
David: Hmm
Seth: ... you're spread out among all the nations."
David: Oh, that's-
Seth: Uh-
David: ... yeah, that's interesting 'cause it's not like the Queen of England has dominion in America even if there's a, an English citizen living here.
Seth: Yep.
David: It's not like that, that queen has, can lay claim over this land.
Seth: No, but that queen probably has-
David: Mm
Seth: ... a special place in that Englishman's heart.
David: Yes.
Seth: Right? And so if the, the queen says something to you, the English people scattered throughout the world, that means something.
David: Right.
Seth: Like, if the Messiah is speaking, if the queen is speaking-
David: Yep
Seth: ... all good citizens of that kingdom wanna listen.
David: Hmm.
Seth: And so I think it's interesting James is speaking to the people of God historically, like-
David: Hmm
Seth: ... who have been scattered throughout the world, who expected a Messiah to bring them back in.
David: Right.
Seth: And he's saying, "The Messiah is still speaking."
David: Yeah.
Seth: "I'm writing to you."
David: I mean, that's pretty countercultural for a Jew to say because-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... they would, like you said, would've expected the Messiah, especially the smartest Messiah who ever lived-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... would have brought them home.
Seth: Yep.
David: But he's saying, "I've got wisdom for you."... in exile.
Seth: Yeah.
David: All right.
Seth: And the other thing that's interesting about this too is that James is writing this not just to a Jewish audience that happens to be dispersed among the nations of the world-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... by accident of history. That's one layer of meaning.
David: Oh, okay. Yeah.
Seth: But the other is like this is a reference to the 12 apostles who have been sent out into the world-
David: Mm
Seth: ... to preach the gospel. Why? Because the people of God is no longer just ethnic Jews that have been dispersed in the exile, but all people that have f- trusted the Messiah Jesus.
David: Mm.
Seth: All people are part of the Kingdom of God now if they trust in Jesus, if they submit-
David: Okay
Seth: ... to King Jesus, if they follow the Messiah.
David: Okay. So I think I understand now-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... who I am when I'm reading James, who James says Jesus is whenever he wrote James, and who he sent this letter to.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Okay. So now tell me about the book. What, what do you think [laughs]
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... what are you excited about in this book?
Seth: Well, if we're talking about Solomonic, kingly, proverbial wisdom-
David: As we often are
Seth: ... as we often do.
David: [laughs]
Seth: I th- I mean, h- most people know how the Book of Proverbs begins.
David: Mm.
Seth: What is the wisdom of God?
David: Oh, fear God.
Seth: Yeah. What is the beginning of wisdom? Fear God-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and keep His commands.
David: Right.
Seth: That's the beginning of wisdom.
David: Okay. So is he, uh, James is, like, gonna play with that?
Seth: Well, I would've expected him to play with that.
David: Right. [laughs]
Seth: But he doesn't. He says, "Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various [laughs] kinds-
David: [laughs]
Seth: ... because know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness or endurance. And let endurance have its full effect, that you may be perfect or complete, lacking in nothing." James is communicating the wisdom of the new Messiah begins with the inevitability of suffering-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and the hope that it produces completeness or wholeness in the people that follow it.
David: Right. And then, and then he finally talks about wisdom.
Seth: And then he says, "And if anybody lacks wisdom, let him ask God." So, and I think what he's doing-
David: Mm
Seth: ... there, he's saying, like, "If you are lacking that wisdom that I just said-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... ask God and He'll make it clear to you what I mean."
David: Oh, like that you have to go through sufferings and trials of many kinds-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... so that you will-
Seth: To be whole and to com- be complete.
David: Wow. Okay. And so, I mean, is... what he's doing there is he's pulling on the wisdom of the Messiah Jesus.
Seth: I think that's what he's doing.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So what's the wisdom of the Messiah Jesus? It's that He died-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and then resurrected again.
David: Right.
Seth: He went through a trial of various kinds, and then He was resurrected from the dead, and He's more whole and complete and perfect-
David: Mm
Seth: ... than He was when He walked the earth.
David: Right.
Seth: The wisdom of the Messiah is that death come first, and then wholeness and completeness comes afterwards.
David: So if we lack wisdom, we ask God for it, as James says, and He generously gives it to us.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: How? By showing us how to follow in the pathway of Jesus-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... to suffer, die, and-
Seth: Right
David: ... endure and be-
Seth: Right
David: ... raised.
Seth: And so he says, "Ask wisdom wholeheartedly." What's all over the Book of Proverbs? Seek out wisdom with your whole heart.
David: Right.
Seth: Count it as a costly jewel. Count it as something precious to behold.
David: Oh, yeah.
Seth: Spend everything you have to get wisdom.
David: Oh. And then he's, James is saying here, like, "We know what the pearl is now."
Seth: We know what the treasure.
David: "We know what the treasure is. It's that Christ c- was crucified." [laughs]
Seth: The wisdom of the world is that death comes before life and wholeness.
David: Whoa. That's crazy. So what, what's interesting here is that a lot of people not only give James a hard [laughs] time-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... because it's very, like, work-centered-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... but also because Jesus doesn't get a ton of screen time. [laughs]
Seth: He does not.
David: But what you're saying is actually James opens his letter by saying, "I'm a slave of Jesus."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And Jesus is, is speaking to the 12 tribes as their king all around the world.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And here's the wisdom that the world's been waiting on. It, it's the gospel.
Seth: "Count it all joy, my brothers, when you suffer trials of various kinds, because it will produce endurance, which leads-
David: Mm
Seth: ... to wholeness and perfection."
David: That's pretty cool.
Seth: Which is the story of Jesus. He-
David: Right
Seth: ... suffered trials of various kinds, endured through them, and he now lives whole and complete, ruling over the world-
David: Okay
Seth: ... from Heaven.
David: So why is that good news for us?
Seth: Keep reading.
David: Oh, okay.
Seth: Verse nine.
David: [laughs]
Seth: Uh.
David: I asked too soon. [laughs]
Seth: Uh, you asked too soon, David. How foolish.
David: [laughs]
Seth: This is a book of wisdom. [laughs] Let the... "So knowing this," verse nine, "let the lowly brother boast in his exultation." So those who are poor, those who are humble, when they're risen up, rejoice. "And likewise, the rich should rejoice in their humiliation, because like a flower in the field, they'll pass away. But blessed is the man who re- remains steadfast under trial," verse 12. "When he's stood the test, he will receive a crown of life, which God has promised to those who love Him."
David: Mm. So he's, like, proving the same point again.
Seth: He's proving the same point again. He's saying, "Okay, what's good news here?" Well, the wisdom of Jesus is that death comes before life-
David: Right
Seth: ... and that when we submit to that, we'll experience the same. So humble people, when you're r- lifted up, praise.
David: Mm.
Seth: 'Cause you're repeating the resurrection story in your own life.
David: Ah, you've proved out the gospel story.
Seth: And even the rich who are humiliated for a time, rejoice.
David: Mm.
Seth: You're living out the first part of the gospel story.
David: Right.
Seth: You're going down to the grave right now.
David: Mm.
Seth: But what does Jesus tell us? That on the other side of the grave is resurrection. If you endure through this humiliation, you will be raised up on the other side.
David: Mm.
Seth: You'll be given a crown of life if you endure the humiliation.
David: Right. That makes sense. Okay. And he, like, and he proves it through nature metaphors too.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Where he's like, "Oh, the, the sun comes up and it scorches-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... the, the grass."
Seth: Yeah.
David: There's death first-
Seth: Yes
David: ... in order for life to come later.
Seth: And then a- and from the decay comes-
David: Mm, mm
Seth: ... new life.
David: Okay.
Seth: And I don't know if we talked about this a ton in the Book of Proverbs, but one way to think about wisdom is, like, working with the grain of the world-
David: Yes
Seth: ... or working with the way that God has designed the world to work.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And we, like, wondered for a while, like, if resurrection is hidden in nature.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And if, like, the grain of the world is actually death and resurrection.
David: Yes.
Seth: I think that is part of the point, maybe not here directly, but like tangentially, 'cause Paul will say that resurrection is proof that when a seed dies in the ground and s- a tree is born from it.
David: Right.
Seth: The seasons prove resurrection is true. After when-
David: Yeah, the death of winter comes
Seth: ... comes springtime, when a star goes supernova it implodes, and stars die in two different ways, and both ways creates more life.
David: [chuckles]
Seth: When a star explodes and goes supernova, their matter is distributed throughout the universe-
David: [laughs]
Seth: ... and then they coalesce around more gravitational bodies and create new stars. Or they implode and create black holes which Stephen Hawking says are doorways to new universes, whole other planes of existence where there is life. The whole world exists along the lines of death and resurrection.
David: Right. And Jesus on the cross was showing us how the world actually works.
Seth: Yes.
David: And his resurrection proves-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... that he was the wisest person because he knew how the world actually works, counter to everyone else.
Seth: Yes. If he- if you die-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... in humility, in humiliation, God will raise you up.
David: That's cool.
Seth: So rejoice.
David: Right. 'Cause you're living with the grain of the universe.
Seth: Yes.
David: Or as we, we said another time, God made the world like an operating system.
Seth: Yes. [laughs]
David: And i- whenever you're coding right and everything's going good, there's no viruses, it's whenever you're following death then resurrection.
Seth: [laughs]
David: But whenever we try to get life before dying, when we try to be greedy or grab or be covetous or jealous, and we try to flip the equation, we become a virus-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... or like a bug in the system.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: We go against God's OS. [laughs]
Seth: Yeah, which is... Oh, so-
David: [laughs]
Seth: ... I, I like it and don't like it at the same time.
David: [laughs]
Seth: But it's like wisdom is the OS of the universe does sound... [laughs]
David: Sounds like a, a, a youth pastor sermon.
Seth: It sounds like a youth pastor sermon-
David: [laughs] That's why you don't like it
Seth: ... a little bit. Um, so why is that good news?
David: Right. This, back to my, "Hey, Seth, why is that good news?" [laughs]
Seth: Because that means-
David: I have that question now
Seth: ... I can count it joy, David-
David: Mm
Seth: ... when I meet trials of various kinds. Because I can know-
David: Oh
Seth: ... that the testing of my faith will produce endurance, which will produce a perfect and complete life.
David: Ah.
Seth: I can know every trial has been designed to give me life.
David: Mm.
Seth: Every piece of suffering, every humiliation I experience is meant to give me more life.
David: Mm. I... It's doing something different there to me, 'cause normally I would, I would say, oh, okay, there's no wasted suffering. Like-
Seth: Mm
David: ... suffering is always going to accomplish something. It's gonna teach me something, it's gonna mature me, it's going to-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... do something, bear fruit in my life.
Seth: Yep.
David: But you're saying something more there with the wisdom of death and resurrection being the OS of the universe. You're saying that actually all suffering is Jesus' body going into the grave before bursting forth into life.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: That it's not only just character or maturation-
Seth: Mm
David: ... although those are definitely part of the equation.
Seth: Yeah.
David: But there, the, that every time you suffer, you're actually just getting closer to resurrection life.
Seth: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I think that like, so that word perfection-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... or completed, it can mean maturity, it can mean integration, wholeness-
David: Mm
Seth: ... like no longer divided.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like-
David: Which is really good news
Seth: ... which is all really good news. And so like, oh yeah, there is no wasted suffering.
David: Mm.
Seth: Really good news.
David: Right.
Seth: But what you're saying a little more, something more specific, which is that suffering brings us closer-
David: Yes
Seth: ... to resurrection?
David: Yeah, I think because the, the only other way I've thought about it is when we suffer, when we face trials, it usually like kills something in us.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: It takes something away that was keeping us unintegrated or-
Seth: Mm
David: ... you know, incomplete.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Um, I, I had greed in me or something, and that-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that bit of suffering took my greed away, and now I'm a more integrated person.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: It was a death-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... that now took away something that left something good.
Seth: I see. Right.
David: But what we're saying here is, yeah, but all those little deaths-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... are filling up a grave-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... that's going to inevitably burst forth into new life.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so it's-
Seth: A new and more complete whole life
David: ... it's not just that suffering is the stripping away-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... but it's also the promise and the assurance that very soon life is coming.
Seth: It's the weird logic of a seed.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: A seed is like tiny. It's tiny, but it-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... suffers in the ground.
David: Yeah.
Seth: But out of it grows-
David: A giant plant
Seth: ... a giant tree. Like, that's not just suffering's not wasted.
David: Right.
Seth: That's like suffering produces fruit, like-
David: Right
Seth: ... produces-
David: A tree is coming
Seth: ... a tree is coming.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Yeah. And so I think that's what's on the line here.
David: And that I don't have to just do mental gymnastics to try to believe that-
Seth: Mm
David: ... 'cause I can just look to the death and resurrection of Jesus. [laughs]
Seth: Right.
David: It actually happened-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and it's going to happen for us.
Seth: But there's a problem.
David: Oh, no.
Seth: That wisdom is hard to accept, and verse 13 kinda lets us in on like a common objection to-
David: Mm
Seth: ... this view of the wisdom of God.
David: Okay.
Seth: And really, God's control of suffering in this way, or God's ordaining of death to lead to life.
David: Mm.
Seth: He says, "Let no one say when he's tempted, 'I am being tempted by God,' because God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one."
David: Mm.
Seth: I think the easiest way to say this is when we start to suffer, it's probably the time that we're most likely to sin.
David: [laughs]
Seth: Like when we're humiliated-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... uh, when we're demoted, when we are corrected.
David: Yep.
Seth: When-
David: Or tragedy comes
Seth: ... or tragedy comes, that's the moment we're most likely to start blaming God for our suffering.
David: Right.
Seth: "You did this to me-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and now my life is a living hell."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: "And you've, you've done this to me to make me die."
David: Mm.
Seth: "You've done this to me to punish me. You've done this to me to show me that like"-
David: Yeah, "I don't care if you're trying to bring good out of itThis is just wrong.
Seth: Right.
David: Right.
Seth: And I think part of that is tempted isn't just the fact of suffering it's, like, what happens af- like we're tempted to do something.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So we, we experience suffering and we're tempted to do something else.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So we start drinking.
David: Right.
Seth: Our suffering causes us to drink. God tempted me to start drinking. Suffering happens, humiliation happens. I-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... I numb out on Netflix.
David: Right, yeah.
Seth: God, God tempted me-
David: Right
Seth: ... to do this.
David: Right.
Seth: God's the one causing me all these unhealthy habits in my life.
David: Because he's put me through this trial.
Seth: Because he's put me through this trial.
David: Right.
Seth: And then James's response to that is, "No, no, no, no, no. God is too good of a God to tempt you with evil. He's giving you a trial to give you life."
David: Right.
Seth: That's the purpose of trials is to give life. If you find yourself sinning in a particular moment, numbing out on N- Netflix, self-medicating with whatever, that's on you, he says, he says it in here. Each person is tempted when they're lured by their own desires. You're only doing what you've always wanted to do.
David: Right. All the, all the trial did, all the suffering did was expose what you really wanted.
Seth: Right. And then that gives birth to sin, and then when sin is fully formed it brings forth death. Which, by the way, is the opposite of resurrection.
David: Ah.
Seth: You're going on a path to death, but, like, the, the purpose of trial is to bring you to life.
David: Right.
Seth: So what do you do? Don't be deceived. Every good gift comes from God, including our trials.
David: Mm.
Seth: Why? Because that's the way that you're supposed to push through those things to resurrection and new life.
David: Interesting.
Seth: That's the wisdom of Jesus. [gentle music]
David: Okay, so we've talked about Jesus as the wise king who before time began built the whole world with wisdom that mirrored who he is.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: He is a God who would die first and then bring life.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: So he built a whole universe that would tell the gospel story.
Seth: Yep.
David: He made it so that seeds had to die before they would grow into big plants because he knew that he would die-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and then grow into his glorified body. Like-
Seth: Yes
David: ... he built the whole world on his wisdom of death-
Seth: Yes
David: ... and resurrection to mirror his personality.
Seth: Yep.
David: And so that's where James has us so far, right?
Seth: That's where James has us so far.
David: Okay, so what's next?
Seth: And so what we need to do is we need to accept our own little deaths. We need to accept our humiliations, our poverties, and our sufferings-
David: Mm
Seth: ... as a way to grow the way, you know, be resurrected, made complete the way that God intends us to be. But then he says what happens when we fail to do this.
David: Hm.
Seth: So if we fail to go with the grain of the universe, if we fail to go alongside the story of death and resurrection, what happens? And he said, well, you'll be proven fools.
David: [laughs]
Seth: Which is, like, appropriate. We're talking about wisdom.
David: You'll get a splinter.
Seth: You'll get a splinter.
David: If you go against the grain. [laughs]
Seth: Um, and the way that he sets this up is by being a doer of the word-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and not a hearer only.
David: Okay.
Seth: In context, don't just hear about the death and resurrection of Jesus and celebrate it as good news, live out the story of death and resurrection in your own life.
David: Right. You're like, "Yeah, I believe in Jesus, he died and rose, but every time I suffer I run the other way and medicate."
Seth: Yes.
David: Okay.
Seth: That's, that's-
David: That's how you get a splinter.
Seth: That's how you get a splinter. And he says what that's like is people who see their face in the mirror and then immediately forget what they look like. You see your savior who died and rose, but immediately forget that's what you're called to do as well.
David: Mm.
Seth: That's foolishness.
David: That is foolishness.
Seth: That's dumb.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Nobody forgets what they look like after they walk away, but somehow we do.
David: Yeah.
Seth: We look at our savior who died and rose and said somehow we're, we don't have to do that too?
David: You're right.
Seth: That's not-
David: Okay
Seth: ... wise.
David: Yep. So there's a, a law that is coming.
Seth: Yeah.
David: We can't just see Jesus and know-
Seth: Mm
David: ... what he's like. That then changes the way we live-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and things we do.
Seth: But one who looks into the perfect law-
David: Mm
Seth: ... the law of liberty, and perseveres, not being a hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing. He's introduced the idea of the law for the first time here.
David: Yeah.
Seth: But he's blending it with this wisdom metaphor as well. So okay, you don't wanna be a foolish person who looks into the mirror of Jesus's death and resurrection-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and then assume that doesn't apply to you. No, what you need to do is you need to look into the law of liberty, which is a mixing of metaphor. He's not just saying the law of liberty equals Jesus's death and resurrection.
David: Okay.
Seth: I think that is part of what he's saying.
David: Mm.
Seth: But, like, the law of liberty is also a code for the Hebrew Old Testament-
David: Right
Seth: ... and the laws given in the, the rest-
David: Right
Seth: ... of the Bible.
David: It's also... I mean, not even a code, it's just like the-
Seth: The, the law
David: ... the law, what it means.
Seth: Yes.
David: He's actually talking about the law-
Seth: The law
David: ... of the Old Testament.
Seth: But he calls it a law of liberty-
David: Right
Seth: ... which is interesting, and he's marrying that with the idea of dying and resurrecting.
David: Right.
Seth: And so you're like, well, hold on, James.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: That's super confusing. It feels like we're mixing terms-
David: Mm
Seth: ... without, like, a solid basis for that.
David: Right.
Seth: And you're saying if I persevere in the law I will be perfected and blessed? I thought you said that was happened when I die-
David: Right
Seth: ... and I'm hu- humiliated and I s- and then I'm risen.
David: Right.
Seth: What's going on?
David: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good question. [laughs]
Seth: Okay. [laughs]
David: What is going on?
Seth: So what I think is going on is James is assuming a whole bunch about his audience-
David: Mm
Seth: ... about the way the Hebrew law works.
David: Okay.
Seth: Um-
David: Probably a safe bet.
Seth: It, probably a safe bet.
David: The, the, for the Jews in the dispersion.
Seth: [laughs] Yeah, yeah. So remember, the law of God was given to God's people after they were freed from slavery in Egypt.
David: Right.
Seth: They were liberated from slaves in Egypt.
David: Mm.
Seth: God brought them to Mount Sinai, and then only after they were saved, only after they were freed did they ever get a law.
David: Ah. So, like, from its genesis, not to be confused with the book-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... from its beginning-
Seth: Yep
David: ... it has always been a law-Given to those who have been liberated.
Seth: Yep.
David: It's always been a law of liberation.
Seth: Yep. And so what the law did in Israel's history was it marked an end to an era of bondage-
David: Yep, slavery
Seth: ... and marked the beginning of an era of freedom.
David: Liberty.
Seth: Liberty. So what does the law do? It teaches God's people how to be free, in one sense.
David: Oh, yeah.
Seth: You're no longer slaves.
David: Yeah, so now what do you do?
Seth: Now, like how-
David: How do you live? You only know how to be a slave.
Seth: Right.
David: Mm.
Seth: And what's interesting is that we all intuit without thinking about the idea that laws equal freedom.
David: Right.
Seth: America's the land of the free.
David: [laughs]
Seth: Does that mean that it's a land without laws?
David: No.
Seth: No, we- the laws of America enable us to have freedom.
David: Right.
Seth: We know that that's part of the way laws function. It can preserve freedom if used well.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And so what he's saying here, I think, is historically, on one level, there was a salvation moment. You were freed from slavery, and then were given laws to commemorate that moment of freedom and persevere in that freedom.
David: Oh, right, because they could easily go back to a life of slavery.
Seth: Yep.
David: Even if they weren't put in handcuffs again and whipped by Egyptians-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... they could still go back to living like slaves.
Seth: Yep.
David: And so the law was given to them, what you're saying is the law was given to them to help them stay free now that-
Seth: Yes
David: ... they've been freed.
Seth: Yes.
David: Okay.
Seth: And then we have a similar thing happening in the Book of James. We have been given a new salvation event.
David: Uh-huh.
Seth: Jesus's death and resurrection.
David: Right.
Seth: And after Jesus's death and resurrection, he has given us a law. "Don't just hear my law. Do what I've commanded, and that will be how you remain free-
David: Right
Seth: ... maximally free in my wise kingdom."
David: Right. "I've shown you that when you die, like I have, you'll be raised to life, free from the bondage of death."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: "But how do you, even now as you're walking into the grave, remain free-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and stay free?"
Seth: Yep.
David: It's, "Obey my commands."
Seth: It's, "Obey my commands."
David: "Otherwise, you're turning away from the mirror of my cross and forgetting what I look like." [laughs]
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Okay, I think I follow that. Yep.
Seth: Yep. And then think about what's the analog for slavery here. We had actual Egyptian slave masters-
David: Right
Seth: ... who were controlling them, controlling their workday, controlling every moment about them, but they were freed from that, given a new set of laws. "Here's your workday. Here's, your workweek now has a day of rest built into it."
David: Right.
Seth: They were now free to rest.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Total innovation for the people of Israel at that time.
David: Totally.
Seth: Similarly l- though, what have we already been told traps us and enslaves us in the Book of James?
David: Our passions.
Seth: Our desires.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Our wrong desires, and they lead us to sin, and then sin leads us to death.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Our wrong desires enslave us, according to James-
David: Yep
Seth: ... in the same way that Pharaoh enslaved Israel.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And if we want to live as free citizens of a new kingdom, we need to be liberated from those desires, and the way that you're liberated from those desires is by following the laws of a new kingdom.
David: Okay. There we go.
Seth: There [laughs]
David: That's helpful. That's really good. Okay, so that's a huge, like, entryway into a law, 'cause now I'm just like, "Okay, so what is the law that I follow that helps me be liberated from my wicked desires to then endure in suffering and have life on the other end?"
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Tell me what to do, Jesus.
Seth: Yeah, he tells us. Verse eight, "If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, you shall love your neighbor as yourself."
David: Mm.
Seth: And w- we, I think we said this up at the start of the episode, but this is the second half of Jesus' summary of the entire Hebrew Old Testament.
David: Mm.
Seth: Love God and love your neighbor, which was, that summation of the law was given on Mount Sinai right after Israel was freed. So, and he's saying Jesus the Messiah has the same rule, the same royal law that gives freedom that Israel's, God's people have always had. Love God, love your neighbor.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: That's how you are free from your desires.
David: Yeah. Wow. That [laughs] I mean, that... But it's so true. I'm, like, trying to be like, "That's too simple," but it's so true that if you love God and love your neighbor, there's no room for wicked desires anymore.
Seth: Nope.
David: Because there [laughs] it's just not. It's so e- I mean, that's when you know something's really smart-
Seth: [laughs]
David: ... and really wise.
Seth: Right.
David: No wonder Jesus was the smartest king who ever lived-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... 'cause that's, the, that logic is just impossible to get away from.
Seth: Yeah. [gentle music] Okay, we have talked a lot about wisdom and-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... the nature of the law, and none of those are the reasons people most like the Book of James. [laughs]
David: [laughs] Or... Yeah. Wait, wait, what's the reason most people come to James?
Seth: The immense practicality of the Book of James.
David: Oh, I understand.
Seth: So we've not talked about any of the dozens and dozens of things that James tells-
David: Mm
Seth: ... followers of the Messianic wisdom of Jesus to do.
David: Things like?
Seth: Things like do not show partiality.
David: Mm.
Seth: Control your tongue, um, to name just-
David: Right, take care of orphans and widows.
Seth: The, the most famous passage maybe in James. Like, take care, this is true religion.
David: Right.
Seth: Take care of orphans and widows in their distress. So we've not talked about any of that.
David: Okay. What should we say about that?
Seth: What we should say about that is that all of the commands-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... derive from these twin, like, points.
David: Mm.
Seth: The wisdom of God and the laws of the Messianic kingdom inform everything that James commands his people to do.
David: Right.
Seth: Right?
David: Yeah, okay, let me, let me try it.
Seth: Yep.
David: Can I try it real quick?
Seth: Yep.
David: Okay. So if I'm gonna not show partiality, so-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... someone comes into our churchAnd let's say I'm a, I'm a pastor.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And-
Seth: And one's really rich and one's clearly poor
David: ... right.
Seth: Yeah.
David: One's really rich and one's really poor, and James would tell me not to show partiality to the rich person-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... but to give the poor person a seat of honor, right? Uh-
Seth: Or no-
David: Or is it to treat them equally?
Seth: To treat them equally.
David: Right.
Seth: Yes.
David: Treat them equally, okay, because what I'm doing there if I- I'm gonna try to work-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... through our paradigms here.
Seth: Yeah.
David: 'Cause in doing that, I have a sinful desire, right? I have a sinful desire to use that person's wealth that enters into my church for my own gain, to grow my church, to buy-
Seth: Mm
David: ... a new projector or what- [laughs] whatever the, you know.
Seth: Yep.
David: Uh, I've got evil desires and plans for that person, or, and conversely, I might have evil desires to shun the poor person-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... because, oh, they're gonna make me look bad. What is this, a poor person's church?
Seth: Yep
David: Like, all the, I, all these-
Seth: Or to elevate the poor person to prove what a great person you are.
David: Oh, right, or to do what I mistakenly-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... thought James was saying by [laughs]
Seth: Right. Yeah.
David: El- elevating a poor person. "'Cause look how good I am." So I've got all these wicked desires-
Seth: Mm
David: ... that need to be conquered or else I'm gonna have a bunch of sin that's gonna lead to death-
Seth: Death
David: ... instead of life.
Seth: Yep.
David: Okay. So if I follow the Messianic wisdom of-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... King Jesus and say, "I'm gonna love my neighbor and love God in this moment, then I'm gonna treat them equally.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: I'm gonna show no partiality 'cause that's what God has taught me in His Torah, that God-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... shows no partiality.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And I'm just gonna treat them as people.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And I'm not gonna be able to fill either of my wicked desires.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And that's gonna be like a little death to me-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... 'cause I'm gonna have to have died to something.
Seth: Yep.
David: But through doing that, I'm gonna endure and be changed, and Jesus is gonna bear new life in me-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... through that little death-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... that I was gonna try to shortcut by buying something new for the church or showing off how pious I was with elevating the poor person.
Seth: Yes.
David: I get to do it Jesus's way and go with the grain of the universe.
Seth: Yes.
David: Okay.
Seth: I think we can say it a little bit more simply. Chapter 2 verse 5, when you do that, when you show partiality, "Has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He has promised to those who love Him?" It's like, what, what's the gospel?
David: Mm.
Seth: That it's the poor who are elevated.
David: Right.
Seth: And so by seating the poor in a position of putting them on the floor, you place them beneath the dignity that Jesus Christ has.
David: You're not giving... You're not enacting the gospel in that moment.
Seth: You're not enacting the gospel. The wisdom of the universe is-
David: Mm
Seth: ... that the poor are elevated-
David: Oh
Seth: ... and the proud get brought down.
David: I understand.
Seth: And yet by elevating the rich person and putting the poor person on the floor, you've reversed the wisdom of the universe.
David: Right.
Seth: The wis-
David: Same, same reason why we take care of orphans and widows-
Seth: Yes
David: ... is because we enact the gospel-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that God takes the dead in the world-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and brings them to life.
Seth: Yes.
David: Okay.
Seth: That's exactly right. So then you're against the grain of the universe.
David: Ah.
Seth: You're against the death and resurrection of Jesus. You're against the logic of resurrection. And then the rest of the chapter, chapter 8 through 13-
David: Verses 8 through 13
Seth: ... uh, verses 8 through 13, he goes all in on how showing favoritism-
David: Mm
Seth: ... is breaking the law, and he'll mention murder, like an actual crime.
David: Right.
Seth: And he's saying, "You're breaking the kingdom of God's laws when you show favoritism."
David: Mm.
Seth: Well, how's that as bad as murder? He's not saying they're, they're just as bad, but-
David: Right
Seth: ... either one is a rejection of the royal law to love your neighbor.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: It doesn't matter how serious the crime is, you still got a criminal record.
David: Right.
Seth: You're still not gonna get hired at McDonald's because you've got a criminal record. I mean-
David: You got a felony
Seth: ... you have a felony on your ticket.
David: It causes all kinds of problems.
Seth: It causes all sorts of problems.
David: Whether it was public urination or murder.
Seth: It doesn't really matter.
David: [laughs] Right.
Seth: You're a lawbreaker.
David: Right.
Seth: And you've rejected the call to love your neighbor as yourself.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And so you've broken the laws of God's kingdom. Don't do that. Um-
David: Mm, because in trying to grab life for yourself-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... all you've gotten is death-
Seth: You've gotten death
David: ... a death sentence.
Seth: Yes.
David: Okay. Is, is he kinda intuiting that logic again and again with these different commands?
Seth: I think so. Im-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... im- mostly implicitly, but also explicitly. The way that he talks about it through the rest of the book is not so much as trying to parse out the ways in which taming the tongue is like a mini death that leads to resurrection.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: That's not really what he does. Rather, what he's saying is, "Don't just hear the word of God, act on it."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: "Live consistently with the laws of love your neighbor. Live consistently with the logic of death and resurrection."
David: Mm.
Seth: "Don't just have faith in those things, have a faith that's not alone." And then most of the book is saying, "Live consistently with what you believe about Jesus-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and the laws that He's commanded."
David: Yeah.
Seth: And that goes back, that idea of living consistently or with integrity or integrated life between what you believe and how you act, goes back to the very first thing that James said, which was, "If you endure trials, you will be made perfect and complete, whole, integrated."
David: Yeah.
Seth: The idea here is endure the trial, taming your tongue. Endure the trial of-
David: Mm
Seth: ... not engaging in the anti-wisdom of the world. Endure the trial of having a faith that's not alone. Endure the trial of caring for the destitute.
David: Mm.
Seth: And in so doing, you will do what you believe, and you'll be a whole person-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... completed in the logic of the death and resurrection of Jesus.
David: Can you indulge me for-
Seth: Please
David: ... maybe a two-minute tangent?
Seth: A two-minute tangent.
David: Everyone's starting their timers right now to see if I make this-
Seth: Go. [laughs]
David: Okay.
Seth: Starting now. [laughs]
David: Okay. No, but as you were talking about consistent lifestyle, let, don't just be a hearer of the word, but be a doer of the word being a consistent theme throughout James.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: I was thinking about all the other categories we have for this and why that would be such a hot topic for him. And I was like, oh, it kind of makes sense if his worldview is that there is a Proverbs-like king that made the world with wisdom, and he put a grain in the universe that showed who he was.And Jesus lived perfectly with that grain. Jesus was an integrated human, a complete human, right-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... also completely God. Don't, no one, don't at me.
Seth: [laughs]
David: Uh, who lived also completely integrated with the world.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: There was no duplicitousness or, or discontinuity-
Seth: Yep
David: ... between the person of Jesus and the-
Seth: Mm
David: ... wisdom of God-
Seth: Yep
David: ... in the world. For us, we have duplicitousness and discontinuity in both. A lot of times we have divided-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... natures.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Right? Where we, like, feel like we want and know one thing is true, but end up doing something that-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... is counter to that.
Seth: That's right.
David: And we know that, like, oh, you know what, I bet if I cheat here, I'll get caught, but I'm gonna try anyway, and we go against the grain of the universe.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And we live these double lives all the time.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And James is like, "There's wisdom for this, guys. Stop being duplicitous."
Seth: Mm.
David: "Stop being discontinuous-
Seth: Yep
David: ... and just live with the grain of the universe, both internally and externally."
Seth: Li- yeah.
David: That's what Jesus did, and look, He's sitting at the right hand of God. [laughs]
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, He went with the grain of the universe and it paid off-
Seth: Right
David: ... in spades for Him.
Seth: Yeah.
David: It just makes sense now why he's going all in on that.
Seth: And another way to say it is to go back to the, the smartest king who's-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... ever lived. Like, these are the values of the kingdom.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Do you wanna be a model citizen in this kingdom?
David: Right.
Seth: A successful citizen in this kingdom? You, you can't do what you're doing.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Nobody else in the kingdom acts that way.
David: Mm.
Seth: Nobody else is gonna shop at your store living that way. Like-
David: Right
Seth: ... you're l- gonna live c- a countercultural lifestyle if you believe one thing and do something else.
David: Ah, right.
Seth: If you're gonna talk out of both sides of your mouth, nobody else in God's kingdom talks like that-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and you're gonna feel s- severely out of place. Don't do that.
David: Right.
Seth: That's at odds with the wisdom of God's kingdom. And besides, more than just being unwise, you're just being a lawbreaker, too.
David: That's good. Okay, before I tee up the next episode with the big question of James-
Seth: Yes
David: ... let me ask one final question, which is with everything in our, in your head right now, why is James, in the topics we've talked about, why is it good news for us today?
Seth: We already have one answer.
David: Okay.
Seth: That when we enter into humiliation and suffering, God has intended it for our life-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and growth-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and our completion.
David: Right.
Seth: Like, for a person who trusts the wisdom of the Messiah Jesus, suffering humiliation or just the hard work of bearing somebody else's burdens will always produce life.
David: Mm.
Seth: Good news.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Good news.
David: Right.
Seth: And when that's difficult, we have the good news that we have a king who answers our prayers.
David: Hm.
Seth: James 1:5, "If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask."
David: Mm.
Seth: And how does James end chapter five? "Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray."
David: Mm.
Seth: "Is anyone cheerful? Let him rejoice. If you're sick, pray." [laughs] Like, it's like-
David: What's really funny about that is he's saying, "Don't forget that the gospel still applies from God to you."
Seth: Yeah.
David: Is that you can be the orphan and the widow-
Seth: [laughs]
David: ... and God loves to come die for you again.
Seth: Yes.
David: He loves to come to you and help you-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... because He's still the same God who w- who built the universe with the grain of compassion.
Seth: He's not a disinterested king. He's not just setting up laws.
David: Mm.
Seth: He's not just a philosopher offering his wisdom on how the li- w- the world should work. He's say, "Are you struggling with those things? I'll meet you there."
David: Yeah.
Seth: "I'll go down into the grave with you if that's what it takes."
David: Yeah.
Seth: In fact, it did.
David: It did. [laughs]
Seth: Like, but like, "I'll do whatever you need me to do in order for you to live in this kingdom with me."
David: Mm.
Seth: The good news of James is like, for those people who read the Book of James and overwhelmed by its commands-
David: Right
Seth: ... Jesus will be with you.
David: Right. Pray. [laughs]
Seth: Pray.
David: Yeah.
Seth: He'll be next to you. He's not gonna condemn you for failing to live up to the values of His wisdom.
David: Yeah, it's so good. It's like if you feel like a poor widow or orphan after reading James, good. Because-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... the whole point is that God is a God who cares for people like you. [laughs]
Seth: Yes. And He has set up an entire nation to care for you as well.
David: Right.
Seth: So if you-
David: That's what the church is there for
Seth: ... that's what the church is. We are this kingdom.
David: Mm. That's a little too good.
Seth: [laughs]
David: I love that. That's really good. Okay, so then teaser for next week.
Seth: We decided to do a two-part introduction to-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... the Book of James because there's a whole other topic connected to the idea of not just hearing something-
David: Mm
Seth: ... but doing it. But faith alone does not save.
David: Right. James goes all in on this idea that faith alone can't save you, but also your works save you.
Seth: Yes.
David: And this has created a firestorm of controversy for two centuries.
Seth: For, yeah. [laughs] Two?
David: Two.
Seth: Just two?
David: Two millennia.
Seth: Two. [laughs]
David: [laughs] I got the wrong thing. Two millennia. I mean, like I said earlier in this episode, this book has been... People have tried to de-canonize it. They, they-
Seth: Because what James says, that idea of living consistently with what you believe about Jesus the Messiah and then acting on it, that itself, those two things together-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... are what save you.
David: Right.
Seth: And he goes all in and says, "Faith does, alone does not save."
David: Right.
Seth: Like-
David: And, and then we're like, "Wait, hold on."
Seth: Wait.
David: "Faith alone does save."
Seth: And, like, people have wanted to take James out of the Bible for this reason.
David: Yes.
Seth: So we're gonna-
David: But we're gonna talk next week about why this is true.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Why it's, doesn't contradict faith alone saves-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and why it's really good news that-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... like, faith and works save.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So it'll be interesting.
Seth: It's why, and more specifically, why it's good news that you are not saved by faith alone.
David: Yeah, which sounds crazy-
Seth: I'm so excited
David: ... on its own. [laughs]
Seth: [laughs]
David: We'll just let them dangle there, but I'm not gonna bite yet.
Seth: Wow.
David: So, all right. Thank you guys for joining us, and we'll see you next week. [outro music]
Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel creates short films, devotionals, and podcasts like this one. Everything we make is free because of generous supporters like you. To see our resources, visit spokengospel.com or subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. See you next week. [outro music]