Intro: [upbeat music] Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a ministry that's dedicated to speaking the gospel out of every corner of scripture. In Luke 24, Jesus told his disciples that every part of the Bible was about him. So each week, hosts David and Seth work through a passage of scripture to see how it's all about Jesus and his good news. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]
David: Well, welcome everyone to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. We are finishing up the book of Joel today.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: A two-part episode series.
Seth: Yeah, it's like a two-part introduction really-
David: Yeah [laughs]
Seth: ... because it's just, there's not a, there's only three chapters.
David: There's only three chapters.
Seth: There's only three chapters.
David: Yeah, so, uh, last week we talked about the first one and a half chapters.
Seth: Yes.
David: You know, we talked about chapter one and most of chapter two, and we talked about how Israel has experienced, um, a day of the Lord. And it was a, a past event that i- in re- in Israel's recent past where a plague of locusts completely devastated their land, and they are asking questions, why this is happening, and Joel comes to them and says, "This is the day of the Lord." Like, God has brought judgment on you, but don't just, like, look backwards. This should cause you actually to look forward because another day of the Lord is coming, and it's gonna be worse.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And it's gonna be more judgment. And so he calls them to repent, to rend their hearts and not their garments, and return to the Lord with their whole heart. And who knows, maybe the Lord will relent from the disaster that he has planned.
Seth: Yes.
David: Is that a decent synopsis?
Seth: It's a great synopsis.
David: Okay.
Seth: And the last ha- half of the Book of Joel is God responding in mercy.
David: Right. We do, and they will know.
Seth: And they will know.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And they do know in this j- this passage that God will be merciful. Um, we said at the, the top of the last episode, like, why is Joel important for us?
David: Mm.
Seth: It's because you're not gonna understa- the Book of Joel adds to our understanding why Jesus comes twice.
David: Right.
Seth: Why does he come once on the cross and again at the end of time?
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And that's kinda confusing.
David: It is confusing.
Seth: But Joel gives us really helpful categories here.
David: Mm.
Seth: He has f- given us two different sets of two different days of the Lord.
David: Right.
Seth: You have a past day of the Lord's judgment with the locust plagues.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And a future day of the Lord's judgment with something that looks like locusts, but it's far worse than locusts.
David: Right.
Seth: And we're about to read a coming near day of the Lord's mercy, where he's gonna undo all the chaos and devastation caused by the locusts, but a future day of the Lord's mercy that's gonna go far beyond that and recreate the world into the Garden of Eden.
David: Okay, let me repeat that.
Seth: Yes. [laughs]
David: Okay. So there are two days of the Lord's judgment, and those are in, like, the first half of the book.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And then there are two days of the Lord's mercy, and they are in the second half of the book. The two days of the Lord's judgment, one looks back to the locust, and the other looks forward to a bigger day of the Lord's judgment.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: But the people repent and lament, and so that future day that was going to be judgment for Israel turns into the day of the Lord's mercy, and it's-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... near.
Seth: Yes.
David: And we're gonna talk about what that is, but then you're saying that after that day of mercy, uh, all the things that are in there get ratcheted up to a bigger day of the Lord's mercy farther out in the future.
Seth: Yes.
David: Okay.
Seth: That's what it is.
David: I probably didn't say it any more clear, but maybe if we both say it once-
Seth: [laughs]
David: ... it'll get caught. [laughs]
Seth: That's my logic on everything.
David: [laughs]
Seth: I don't know if I did it right the first time, but I'm gonna try it again. [laughs]
David: [laughs]
Seth: Uh, yeah, so the first day of the Lord's mercy is this, chapter two, verse 18. After the people repent, then the Lord became jealous for his land, or, uh, for, uh, the guys at the Bible Project translate passionate-
David: Mm
Seth: ... for his land, like lovingly passionate for his land.
David: Yeah.
Seth: "And had pity on his people. And the Lord answered and said to his people, 'Behold, I am sending to you grain, wine, and oil, and you will be satisfied.'"
David: Mm. Everything that was taken away by the locusts.
Seth: Will be returned to them.
David: Yeah.
Seth: All that, the sacrifices can start up for the temple again, the drunks can get drunk again. [laughs]
David: Hey.
Seth: Yeah. [laughs]
David: That's what God's doing.
Seth: That's what God's doing. [laughs]
David: He's reopening the breweries. [laughs]
Seth: He's re- [laughs] I mean, why not?
David: That's really funny. Wine not?
Seth: Wine not?
David: I see what you did there.
Seth: And then even in chapter 22, "Fear not, you beasts of the field."
David: Mm.
Seth: Remember how all the beasts were panting because there was no w- more water?
David: So he's even feeding the animals.
Seth: He's even feeding the animals.
David: Mm.
Seth: The fig tree and the vine give their full yield. The Garden of Eden is returning to Israel.
David: Right.
Seth: He's giving, "Early rain for your vindication. He's poured out for you abundant rain, early and latter rain," just like before.
David: Oh, man.
Seth: The early rainy season and the latter rainy seasons. It's coming again. Um, the, the locusts will be cast out. The land will be replenished. And then 26 and 27, "You shall eat in plenty and be satisfied and praise the name of your Lord your God, because he's dealt wondrously with you. And you, my people, shall never again be put to shame." Remember the, what they prayed in the end? Part of the repentance was, why should the nations say that we're no longer loved by God?
David: Right.
Seth: And he's saying, "That shame has ended."
David: Mm.
Seth: And we w-
David: Yeah, we w- yeah, we were going to be a byword among the nations.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: We were going to be put to shame publicly.
Seth: Mm.
David: But now we will never be put to shame.
Seth: Yes.
David: Okay?
Seth: "And you shall know that I am in the middle of you, in the midst of Israel-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and that I am the Lord your God, and there's none else, and my people shall never again be put to shame."
David: Wow.
Seth: So he says, "Okay, guys, you're gonna know."All the things that to- were taken away from you with the locusts are gonna come back
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... the grain, the wine, the oil, the pasture lands. The locusts are gonna be brought away and I- you'll know that I'm in your middle-
David: Right
Seth: ... i- in your middle. [laughs]
David: In your middle.
Seth: I'm in your middle. [laughs]
David: I love it.
Seth: Um-
David: Yeah, so not only is everything restored like the Garden of Eden, uh, God says he will be there too, like the Garden of Eden.
Seth: That's right.
David: So like really, like this is, this is getting good.
Seth: This is getting really, really good.
David: Okay.
Seth: The shame is then... And even the word shame-
David: Mm
Seth: ... ties back to the Garden of Eden. They were naked-
David: Oh
Seth: ... and not ashamed.
David: Right, but then they were. They knew they were naked, and they felt shame.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Oh, interesting.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Okay, so yeah. The, the, i- if Israel was starting to look like the Garden of Eden, the locusts and the judgment of the day of the Lord, uh, was like another fall-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... right? Another Genesis 3, and everything was terrible.
Seth: Another curse.
David: Thor- yeah-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... another course, curse.
Seth: Course.
David: Course. Thorns and thistles and everything. But now God is saying like, "I'm coming to you in your thorns and thistles-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and in your curse, and I'm reversing those things and bringing you back into, um, an Edenic state, in a Garden of Eden."
Seth: Yeah.
David: Okay?
Seth: So the, so in this... And so up to chapter 2 verse 27, functionally everything that happened the first da- day of the Lord is now restored.
David: Okay.
Seth: That's what he's promising to do.
David: Okay.
Seth: And then in chapter ch- chapter 2:28-
David: Yeah, it says, "And it shall come to pass afterward."
Seth: Yeah.
David: So this is not the same day of the Lord.
Seth: No, it's-
David: This is something that happens after that.
Seth: Yeah, so just like he did in 2:1-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... or in chapter 2 where he said, um, "Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble, for the day of the Lord is coming-
David: Is coming
Seth: ... is coming."
David: Yes.
Seth: "It is near." We see it again, "And it shall come to pass afterwards that day of the Lord's mercy." A new day of the Lord's mercy.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And then he does what he did in the first half. He ratchets up all the promises. He promised that the enemies would be go, go away, the northerners, the northern locusts would be pushed away.
David: Right.
Seth: That the land would be restored and that his presence would be with them. Well, he starts with his presence.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: He promises the Holy Spirit, and we'll talk about that.
David: Okay.
Seth: He promises the enemies will be pushed away in, uh, the chapter 3 for a long time in this place called the Valley of Decision.
David: Mm.
Seth: And then he ends with a renewed Garden of Eden.
David: Right.
Seth: He, he parallels all the promises of mercy in the first day with a future day where all those things are restored exponentially-
David: Mm
Seth: ... beyond their wildest imaginings.
David: Okay.
Seth: So that's what's happening.
David: Okay. All the, uh, escalated, nasty future plagues-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... get transformed into giant, beautiful blessings.
Seth: That's right.
David: The locusts, the, the locusts that look like horse- horses become pretty unicorns that you can ride over rainbows.
Seth: That's exactly right.
David: Okay. [laughs]
Seth: That's exactly the vi-
David: [laughs]
Seth: ... vision to have. And the good things the Lord's gonna do to reverse the locust plague-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... are all gonna be amplified. It's not just that now the curse, the, the worst escalated possible vision of the locust is reversed.
David: Mm.
Seth: It's also that the first wave of promises-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... uh, is like, is washed over with a second wave of even more escalated promises.
David: Mm.
Seth: Right? Does that make sense?
David: Yeah, he's not only fixing the, what happened with the locusts.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Like, that, that's step one.
Seth: And he's not even just doing battle with the hyper locusts.
David: Right. Yeah, he is, he is doing more than we could ask or imagine-
Seth: Yes
David: ... to use New Testament language.
Seth: Okay.
David: That's right. I get that.
Seth: Cool. So yeah, so let's talk about the promises of that coming day of the Lord.
David: Yeah. So y- okay, so there's, uh, just to list them so I can get my head around where we're going here, there's the Holy Spirit, which is a gigantic topic.
Seth: Yes.
David: Um, there is the judgment in the valley of Jehoshaphat.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Okay? And the promise of the new Eden.
Seth: The promise of the new Eden.
David: Are those the three that we need to talk about?
Seth: Yeah, that's, those are the three-
David: Did I do it?
Seth: You did it.
David: I did it.
Seth: The, the shortest one is actually the promise of the new Eden.
David: Okay.
Seth: It's almost like two verses.
David: You wanna go backwards?
Seth: Let's go backwards.
David: Chiasms.
Seth: It's so, it's so good-
David: [laughs]
Seth: ... to be able to go backwards. He says in verse 17 and 18, "And this is how you'll know that I'm the Lord your God, who dwells in Zion, my holy mountain. In that day, the mountains shall drip sweet wine-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the stream beds of Judah shall flow with water."
David: You know what I was just reminded of?
Seth: What?
David: Like the, like a Coors Light can.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Where it's like beer mountain.
Seth: [laughs] Yeah, yeah.
David: But it's like a wine mountain.
Seth: Yeah. [laughs]
David: Don't know why I thought of that.
Seth: Uh-
David: This is just commercials, man.
Seth: Commercials, they're just seeping into your-
David: They're messing with me
Seth: ... they're your new Torah.
David: Oh, gosh. [laughs]
Seth: Um... [laughs]
David: James K.A. Smith was right.
Seth: [laughs]
David: Everything's a liturgy. That's a deep cut for the-
Seth: That's, yeah
David: ... the nerds out there.
Seth: If you, if you haven't read James K.A. Smith's book, you totally should.
David: Quick, quick plug.
Seth: Um, but that's also just a repetition of the promised land.
David: Yes.
Seth: The land will-
David: Flow with milk and honey
Seth: ... flow with milk and honey, but now they're just flowing with milk and honey. The mountains are dripping with wine.
David: Yeah.
Seth: The hills are f- the hills are-
David: Yeah. It's like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... like, does that mean like the snow caps of the mountains in the new Eden are like frozen grapes or-
Seth: Mm
David: ... frozen fermented grapes, and they're [laughs] like thawing and making like mountain stream water of Merlots? [laughs]
Seth: Whatever you need it to be, David. Whatever Eden looks like to you, that's probably Eden.
David: That's my truth.
Seth: That's your truth.
David: It's my journey. [laughs]
Seth: Um, I think it's probably like the Garden of Eden-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... is called a mountain sometimes throughout the Old Testament.
David: Oh, right, yes. It's a high place where, where heaven and earth come together.
Seth: And so you have at the top of the mountain the divine orchard.
David: Mm.
Seth: The, the heavenly orchard.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And then from the divine orchard, the-
David: All this blessing and presence
Seth: ... it's not just water. It's also milk and wine.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Anything that you want-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and anything you could desire-
David: Is there
Seth: ... flows from the mountain of the Lord.
David: Yeah, like a, like a mountain stream.
Seth: Yes.
David: Freely.
Seth: So what God is promising is, "Man, I'm gonna restore the oil and the wine and the grain-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... that got destroyed, and then one day I'm gonna remake the world-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... so you're not even gonna have to grow it anymore.
David: Yeah.
Seth: It's just gonna flow from the heavens."
David: That's amazing. And like, what's, what I love about this is this is not a, like some kind of like prophetic waxing where it's just like, "You know, like, when Israel gets restored, you know. Let me just amplify it and make it-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... sound cooler than it's actually gonna be." You know?
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, "Oh, your birthday's party's gonna blow your mind. You know, it's gonna be like..."Y- y- you know, anyway
Seth: Yes
David: I don't have any good i- illustrations. But, like this is really going to happen. Like, Jes- like in Revelation, this all gets-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... picked back up.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And when Jesus returns on the final day of the Lord's mercy and judgment, um, the new heaven and Earth come together-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and the new Eden is restored, and all these images get picked back up, and we will literally live in a remade, perfect world with God where it's like there are mountains flowing with wine and honey.
Seth: Yes. Read Revelation 21 and 22-
David: Yes
Seth: ... and you'll see all this garden imagery picked back up again and amplified and exploded, and it's, it is gorgeous.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Joel is describing what it's gonna be like when the second day of the Lord's mercy finally comes.
David: Yeah. And, and let's... And, like, I think something to, to stop and think about there is this is also really good news for the people who originally heard it. Like, imagine being surrounded by desolation, having nothing. Like, it still sounds like good news to us-
Seth: Mm
David: ... you know, to like, have this new renewed city with y- you know, flowing streams and milk and honey, even whenever we can go to a grocery store and get whatever we want.
Seth: Yes.
David: But imagine, like, having nothing and dying of starvation-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and knowing that this was in your future. It would sound so much better.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: You know, and I'm just reminded of like, um, how Paul talks about future hope. Like, when we hope in Jesus' second coming, he actually goes so far as to say that by this hope, hoping in Jesus' second coming, we are saved. That like, our salvation is tied up in our enjoyment and expectation of this day. And, um, he, he talks about how like, uh, in Romans 8, he talks about how he doesn't even consider it's worth, like it, it worth comparing his present suffering, you know, the locust plague that he's going through-
Seth: Mm
David: ... in his day, whatever that might be, to, like, the joy and garden blessings that's coming.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, it's not even worth making a, a comparison.
Seth: Hmm.
David: Like, it's not like, well, this is bad, but this'll be so much better. No, that does damage to how good it's gonna be to even compare it n- you know, like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... to how bad things are now. So anyway, it just like, the, the f- like, some of the fuel, so much of the fuel of the Christian life-
Seth: Hmm
David: ... comes from meditating on this future city, this future garden-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and just longing for it.
Seth: I think even just discovering the idea of a garden-
David: Mm
Seth: ... as heaven-
David: Right
Seth: ... rather than heaven as heaven.
David: Oh, like some clouds and harps.
Seth: Man, like, it's been so good for me to even think about, like, I've tried to grow tomatoes for like, four years.
David: Yes. [laughs]
Seth: And it's just so hard. And I'm in my backyard, I've got a sprinkler system-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and it's like, so [laughs] hard-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... to grow tomatoes.
David: Sage is my downfall.
Seth: Sage. Um, my-
David: It's so finicky
Seth: ... all my rosemary died.
David: Oh, yeah.
Seth: With, with the, like, the minus 10 degrees that we got.
David: Oh, yeah. Definitely.
Seth: So anyway, but I'm like, that earthiness of like-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... how can I get rosemary to survive?
David: Right.
Seth: The hills will one day drip with rosemary.
David: Rosemary oil.
Seth: Rosemary oil.
David: Oh. [laughs]
Seth: It's gonna fall from the sky.
David: Oh.
Seth: And it's gonna be in the heavenly orchard. Like, that has done so much for my imagination of heaven.
David: Yes.
Seth: Not like a disembodied, like, soulless state forever.
David: Right.
Seth: But like, a ground that produces its fruit.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Tree- the tomatoes that I can actually taste-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and don't just wither and then get eaten by bugs.
David: And if, and if my mom is listening to this, there's other things than tomatoes. My mom loves-
Seth: She hates tomatoes [laughs]
David: ... she hates tomatoes. [laughs]
Seth: She hates tomatoes. Grapes.
David: [laughs]
Seth: Figs.
David: Whatever.
Seth: Pomegranates.
David: Cheeseburgers.
Seth: Whatever. Cheese, [laughs] cheeseburger plants.
David: [laughs]
Seth: That's just done a lot for me, 'cause it, it makes heaven physical.
David: Yes, because it is.
Seth: It will be. A new heavens and a new Earth.
David: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Revelation 21:22 talks about how the... Like, God will destroy the old heaven and the old Earth. I think we're comfortable with the idea of God, like, consuming Earth, you know, like-
Seth: Mm
David: ... swallowing up Earth or destroying Earth.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... yeah, it's Armageddon and everything.
Seth: Yeah.
David: But it's like, it actually says in the same sentence that He'll destroy his own house. Heaven will be destroyed.
Seth: Mm.
David: Which is like the invisible-
Seth: Where he is right now
David: ... where he is.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And he will make the two one. That's what the Garden of Eden is, is where heaven and Earth come together.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And so the future i- and that was always the plan, that God would live in an embodied world with his people. And like, that's what heaven is-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... is living here on a remade Earth with God. Like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that, I mean, I, I don't know how old I was when that shifted.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Probably, like, late high school, college or something.
Seth: Yeah.
David: That changed my life.
Seth: It's a big de- I, I've been trying to talk about this with my kids.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And I felt like a good dad-
David: [laughs]
Seth: ... the day that my son Shiloh talked about his brother Reuben, who-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... passed away, and he's like, "Man, I'm just really excited to have a guys' night with Reuben."
David: Aw.
Seth: And he was like, "I wanna go to the creek with Reuben."
David: Mm.
Seth: "I wanna go play in the pool with Reuben, then maybe we can go get ice cream, and then go eat burgers." I'm like-
David: Yes
Seth: ... we could do all that. [laughs]
David: Yes.
Seth: It was, like, such a sweet moment of like-
David: Oh
Seth: ... that is more of what heaven will be like-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... than anything else, like, [laughs] that I understood at five years old.
David: Right. Yes. Oh my goodness, yes. Yeah.
Seth: I think I remember, like, wanting, like, comic books and just having a stack of them. Like, yeah. It's, it's not about that.
David: Right.
Seth: Anyway, I was just-
David: Oh, that's so good
Seth: ... I was happy with my, my son's perception of heaven.
David: Oh, that's so beautiful. Yeah.
Seth: So that's the, the first promise-
David: That's a good one
Seth: ... of, of the-
David: I like that
Seth: ... that, uh, Joel... The third promise that Joel mentions-
David: Right
Seth: ... but the first one we talked about.
David: So the second one, let's, if we're, if we're walking backwards-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... is that God's going to come, He's gonna gather all nations into this place called Jehoshaphat-
Seth: Which-
David: ... which is the valley of decision. Is that right?
Seth: Well, it means Je- Je-ho, Jehu-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... it means God.
David: Okay. Yeah.
Seth: And so it means y- Yahweh has judged.
David: Go- okay, Yahweh has judged.
Seth: God has judged. So-
David: So it's a valley, it's a plain, it's an area-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... called God has judged. It's God's courthouse?
Seth: Um, kind of, yeah. [laughs]
David: [laughs]
Seth: And then later on, he calls it the valley of decision.
David: Oh, okay. Gotcha.
Seth: Uh, in 14, "For the day of the Lord is near, in the valley of decision."
David: Oh, I see it. And there's multitudes and multitudes of people-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... all gathered together, and God talks about how He will judge the nations.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So this day of the Lord that's coming, this future giant merciful day of the Lord that's coming, is still a day of judgment.
Seth: It is still a day of judgment.
David: But not for-God's people.
Seth: Not for God's people. Verse four is really interesting "What are you to me, O Tyre and Sidon, and all the regions of Philistia? Are you paying me back for something? If you're paying me back, I'll return your payment on your own head, swiftly and speedily." So God's being sarcastic-
David: Mm
Seth: ... with the nations of the world that have, uh, been hostile to him.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So think about the, the ancient mind that believed that their nation was tied to their god.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And if you could destroy another nation, you could destroy another god.
David: Right.
Seth: So part of the boasts that you can read of ancient kings is like, our god be your god.
David: Yep.
Seth: And that's ac- we have, uh, some stories of that in scripture.
David: Yes.
Seth: Where it's like, our gods are more powerful than, than your gods. You should submit to us.
David: Right.
Seth: And so God is using that language to say, "Okay, you're hostile to me."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: "Do you really think you're gonna win that battle?"
David: Right.
Seth: "I let you win the first time."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: "A day... If you really want to prove you're better than me, get ready for that battle, because you'll have a chance to prove it."
David: Mm.
Seth: So it's like, it's like these enemy nations have set themselves up against God.
David: Yes.
Seth: They have proclaimed their hostility towards God. They've proclaimed their superiority over God, and they believe that if they and g- God got in a tussle, they would actually win because they think they have some victories on their side.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And then God's saying, "Uh, okay, we're gonna have it out in a place called the valley of decision."
David: Mm.
Seth: "And we'll see who walks out alive." [laughs]
David: [laughs] Let's, let's solve this out back.
Seth: [laughs] A, verse nine, "Proclaim this among the nations, Israel: Consecrate for war."
David: Mm.
Seth: He's saying, "Okay, nations, get ready for war."
David: Right.
Seth: "God's ready to battle you. You said you wanted to fight."
David: You wanna flex.
Seth: He, [laughs] he's ready for it. "Stir up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near. Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears." This is actually a reverse-
David: A reverse
Seth: ... of Micah-
David: Right
Seth: ... when he says that Israel will beat their swords into plowshares.
David: Right.
Seth: So while Israel's experiencing rest from-
David: Right, 'cause they don't need weapons anymore, so all they need is farming equipment
Seth: ... but all the enemies of the world-
David: Have to turn their farming equipment into weapons. [laughs]
Seth: And the, and the Bible says-
David: It's clever
Seth: ... "Let the weak say, 'I am a warrior.'" He's like, bring on-
David: You need everybody
Seth: ... you need everybody.
David: Even the weaklings are gonna have to come fight.
Seth: Yes.
David: Okay.
Seth: And he, and then essentially they come to fight in this, this massive battle-
David: Mm
Seth: ... those that are hostile to the Lord, and they lose.
David: And they lose.
Seth: And they lose. The Lord roars from Zion and utters his voice from Jerusalem. This is the same language, utters his voice-
David: Mm
Seth: ... from when Jesus-
David: When Jesus, when God was leading the plague of locusts.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Okay.
Seth: And the heavens and Earth quake, but the Lord is a refuge to his people, a stronghold to his people.
David: Right. And that-
Seth: And it-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and it even uses the same language here. "The sun and moon are darkened and the stars withdraw their shining."
David: Yes.
Seth: The same language used to describe when, um, the day of the Lord's judgment was coming.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: But now it's being used to describe a day of the Lord's mercy towards Israel's people.
David: Right.
Seth: This goes-
David: But still a day of judgment towards the enemies.
Seth: This goes all the way back to our first podcast-
David: Right
Seth: ... where we talk about Egypt, when the plague of locusts against Egypt-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... was actually the w- the way in which Israel was saved.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: You had to have both happening.
David: Right.
Seth: Um, and it's happening right here.
David: Yeah. And yeah, and, and, and yet he's... 'Cause he says in the middle of it, to, to, like, double down on that, he says, like you just read in 16, "But the Lord is a refuge to his people, a stronghold to the people of Israel." This goes to one of the most famous passages in Joel, uh, where he says, um, in, let's see, 32, in chapter 2:32, "And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And so, um, God's saying like, "Yes, I'm gonna come, and we're, I'm gonna bring all nations into this valley of decision, and we're gonna have it out."
Seth: Yep.
David: "But if you call on my name-"
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: "If you've done this thing we've talked about, lamenting and repenting-"
Seth: Yeah
David: "... you'll be saved. And I, I, when I come to, like, actually do it, do this battle for real, you call my name, I won't be-"
Seth: Yeah
David: "... a terror to you. I'll be a stronghold and a refuge, a safe place."
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um, and so all this language, so this, Joel's describing this coming day of judgment-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... the valley of decision. All this language is picked up in Revelation.
David: Yes.
Seth: Uh, it's the valley of Armageddon.
David: Right.
Seth: Um, even the images of a blast of the trumpet that's used here-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... is used in 1 Corinthians, 1 Thessalonians, and Revelation to describe the coming day of the Lord's judgment. The u- the use of the, um, uh, the, the darkening sun-
David: Yep
Seth: ... is used in Luke 21, Revelation 8. Jesus also uses it in Matthew, the shaking of the earth and heavens, to describe the coming of the day of the Lord, which is here in Joel is also used in the Book of Hebrews.
David: Mm.
Seth: Uh, [laughs] like, uh, the locust army again is used there. All this judgment gets picked up again in Revelation.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Joel is describing what the New Testament describes when it talks about the final day of the Lord's mercy towards Israel-
David: Mm
Seth: ... that is simultaneous with the Lord's judgment of Israel's enemies.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And that's gonna happen on that final day.
David: Yeah. Okay.
Seth: So that's, that's what ha-
David: That's what's happening
Seth: ... that's what's happening there.
David: I mean, and, like, even in Jesus' earthly ministry, he seems to pick up on some of this stuff. Like, I'm reminded of, like, some of his parables about the kingdom, right?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Where it's like the parable of the 10 virgins.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Right? The, the bridegroom comes back, and half of them are ready and half of them aren't. And so those who aren't ready are left out, those who are ready are brought in. You know, it's like, uh, or the parable of the sheep and the goats, you know?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: The sheep who have cared for the poor and the needy around them are brought in.
Seth: Yeah.
David: The goats who have not, who are the nations, quote-unquote, are left out.
Seth: Mm.
David: You know, it's like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... this is all going to happen-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... again, and J- Jesus talked about it.
Seth: He did. And I think the important thing, I think, okay, we're, like, glossing over a lot of just judgment language.
David: Yeah.
Seth: We're taking for granted the fact that God's gonna come like a plague of locusts-
David: [laughs]
Seth: ... and just wipe out his enemies in a place called the valley of decision.
David: Right.
Seth: I think the r- reason why I doubled down on the sarcastic nature-
David: Mm
Seth: ... of the nations' response-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... is because-Nobody is in that battle that doesn't want to be.
David: Right. Totally.
Seth: This day of the Lord's judgment that's coming against Israel and God's enemies, they've chosen which side of the battle they wanna be on-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and they're boasting about it. They're, they're, they're confident that they're on the winning side, and that God either doesn't exist or He's not powerful enough to stop the march of their culture and their, their way of life.
David: Right.
Seth: So like I wanna just say that out loud because like, oh, man, like, that's not what's happening. Like, we're not, we're not... Like, the, those that are against the Lord isn't a passive posture of people. It's an active-
David: Right
Seth: ... hostility against God.
David: Yeah, as soon as they heard that God was coming to battle, they were like, "Great, let me get my, uh, rake out of the garage and turn it into a cat o' nine tails," or, you know? [laughs]
Seth: Yes.
David: They're like, "Let me, let me fix this problem."
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So I just wanna name that-
David: Totally
Seth: ... here and set, help you guys read Revelation too.
David: Mm.
Seth: Like, it's like, not, not God's, God's not just, like, looking for an opportunity to get even with people. He's like, He's coming against people who have actively chosen to do battle against Him.
David: Yeah, yeah.
Seth: But here's something else-
David: Okay
Seth: ... that I wanna think about.
David: All right.
Seth: As we transition to the first promise-
David: Mm
Seth: ... the promise of the Spirit.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That's an interesting one, because Peter in Acts 2 says that happened when Jesus died, or, like, right after Jesus died.
David: Yeah, right after Jesus died.
Seth: So J- uh, spirit comes not at the end of time-
David: Right
Seth: ... but like-
David: 50 days after Jesus' death.
Seth: Right.
David: Right.
Seth: And so even this idea of the day of the Lord's mercy and judgment happening against Israel's enemies-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... there's also a sense that that happens in Jesus' death, too.
David: Totally.
Seth: And we talked about at the beginning or the end of the last episode-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... how the day of the Lord's Edenic recreation-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... also happens now, too.
David: Right.
Seth: Right? When Jesus is caring for the poor and feeding people and healing people, like, that Edenic reality comes in a first day of the Lord, right?
David: Right. He says, like, when John asks, John the Baptist asks to-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... he sends his disciples to ask Jesus if he is the Messiah, right? If, if the Kingdom of God that everyone was looking forward to has come. Is this the day of the Lord?
Seth: Yep.
David: And he says, "Here's your answer. The poor are being taken care of," right? "The hungry are being fed." You know, like, that is proof that the Kingdom of God is coming-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... because Eden is starting to come back in-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... already, here and now. Okay, I get that.
Seth: Yeah, so the reason I, I bring that up is because I think it's interesting that Jesus imagines Tuesday the, two days of the Lord.
David: Right.
Seth: Imagine his own ministry and prophetic work as two days of the Lord in the same way that Joel has imagined it.
David: Right.
Seth: Yeah.
David: There is a day of the Lord's mercy that's happening now-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and then a future day of the Lord that is coming at the end of time.
Seth: Yes, and then Jesus also the day of the Lord's judgment that's happening now-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and a future day of the Lord judgment that's coming then.
David: Right.
Seth: And so I think it's appropriate for us, and I think the fact that the promise of the Spirit happens 50 days after-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... Jesus dies, it invites us to realize that there's two days of the Lord.
David: Yeah.
Seth: The reason why, this goes back to, like, so why two days?
David: Yeah, why did Jesus come twice?
Seth: Why did Jesus come twice? And I was... I think the answer is because there's only one way, like, this way, two days of the Lord, is how God's punishment of injustice and his mercy towards his own-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... is best seen.
David: Yeah.
Seth: I don't think if there was one day of the Lord's justice and mercy in Jesus, that we would know mercy to the same extent, and we would know justice to the same extent.
David: Mm.
Seth: And we need both.
David: Yeah.
Seth: There's a lot of wickedness and evil that's been stacked up against the world.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And if Jesus would've come once, I, I don't know this-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... but my guess is that we would not experience that as just as if there are two d- unless there's two days.
David: Right.
Seth: And God's mercy wouldn't be as merciful towards us-
David: Mm
Seth: ... unless there's two days.
David: Right. There would be less sin for God to judge, so he would seem less just. Not that he would seem um, seem unjust-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... but he'll get more glory coming when he, when he comes a second time than if he had only come once.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And there will be more sin for him to forgive, and so he'll seem more gracious, be seen as more gracious than if he came once. Is that what you're saying?
Seth: I think so. Uh, uh, that's at least part of what I'm saying.
David: Okay.
Seth: Um, 'cause I don't know another answer.
David: Mm.
Seth: Because, like, wh- like, uh, 'cause, like, so I, I said, like, we have a definitive answer to this. That's why you should listen to the podcast.
David: [laughs]
Seth: And I, and I don't know if scripture ever does.
David: No, no. I mean, I don't, I don't think so. I mean, obviously, it's that he wa- I, I mean, I think one main answer of why Jesus came twice is to save the nations.
Seth: Mm.
David: Because Jesus didn't just come to Jerusalem. He came to Jerusalem, and then he sent his people out to be Edenic-
Seth: Oh
David: ... salvation gardeners in Judea, Samaria, and the ends of the earth. Because the Valley of Decision is not just, "Okay, sorry, all nations besides Israel, you're judged."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Now in Armageddon, in the final Valley of Decision, nations, the nations actually have a chance to be saved. They can now call on the name of the Lord. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, and so the gospel must be preached to the ends of the earth, and then the end will come-
Seth: Mm
David: ... the New Testament says. And so if Jesus just came and the day of the Lord was done, only a s- very small f- amount of people would be saved. But the scriptures also say that God desires all people to be saved.
Seth: Interesting, because-
David: And so this gap allows that to happen
Seth: ... so Joel is only written to Israel.
David: Right.
Seth: We kind of for- forget that.
David: Yes.
Seth: We just put ourselves in place of Joel too quickly.
David: Right, but I'm a Gentile.
Seth: I'm a Gentile.
David: Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: Uh...
David: You're worse. You're Italian.
Seth: I'm not. [laughs]
David: [laughs]
Seth: I mean, I'm closer to the Mediterranean than you, buddy.
David: That's true. I'm Irish.
Seth: Yeah. So, um-No, that's true.
David: Yeah.
Seth: I hadn't thought about that.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: There's a day, the day of the Lord's justice and mercy has come for Israel in Jesus.
David: Yes.
Seth: The one that's prophesied here really finally reality right there in Jesus.
David: Right, and he even says, like, "I've only come to the lost sheep of Israel."
Seth: Yeah.
David: "I've not come for the Gentiles."
Seth: Mm.
David: The Syrophoenician woman-
Seth: Mm
David: ... in Mark comes to Jesus and tries to get healed, and he says, "I've not come for you."
Seth: Mm.
David: You know, it's like it- he was for Is- he was here for Israel. And so it's not until the day of Pentecost when, uh, the disciples are anointed with the Holy Spirit to take the message of Jesus out to the rest of the world-
Seth: Mm
David: ... that salvation could go to the nations.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so it's like if there was only one coming of Jesus, the world would not be saved.
Seth: Well, that's a good answer.
David: Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: Did you know that answer before I asked it?
David: I did. [laughs]
Seth: I did not.
David: Uh, Acts 1:8.
Seth: [laughs]
David: It's, it's, it's my ace in the hole.
Seth: [laughs]
David: I use it for a lot of different things. [laughs]
Seth: [laughs] Well, we've already been teeing up then the first promise that-
David: Yes
Seth: ... that, um-
David: Exactly. The, the, the big kahuna we've been-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... holding back on.
Seth: "And it shall come to pass afterwards," or as Peter says, "Today." [laughs]
David: Today, yeah. [laughs]
Seth: "That I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh. Your sons and your daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men shall see visions. On your f- male and female servants. In those days, I will pour out my Spirit-"
David: Mm
Seth: "... and I will show wonders in the heavens and the earth, blood, fire, and columns of smoke," and he goes on.
David: Yeah.
Seth: "And all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved."
David: Yeah. I mean, this is an unprecedented promise for this time. I mean, to think that, like, he's talking to people who have no access to God, right? Because they, they can't even bring-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... they don't even have, like, grain to bring an offering to God, you know? So, like, their access to God has been severely maimed.
Seth: Mm.
David: And, um, e- even, like, in, like, a third-party remote location like the temple, you know-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... it just, they feel far from God. They feel abandoned by God. Uh, but now he's saying, like, "Okay, that spirit of mine that's in the temple-"
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: "... my presence-"
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... is going to be poured out like wine from a mountain-
Seth: [laughs]
David: ... on all flesh. And I'm not just talking about, you know, people like Joel or Moses-
Seth: Right
David: ... or Abraham. I'm talking about your, your slaves.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Your servants. They're going to have Yahweh's presence in them.
Seth: Mm.
David: Like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that's a mind-blowing promise.
Seth: Right, and even g- God in the middle of Israel-
David: Yes
Seth: ... just meant God in the Tabernacle.
David: Back in the temple. Yeah, exactly.
Seth: He w- Jerusalem's the center of the country.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: God's physically in the center of the country.
David: Yep.
Seth: No, he's gonna be in the center of us.
David: Right.
Seth: He's gonna be in our middle, center [laughs] of us.
David: He's gonna be in our middle.
Seth: He's gonna be-
David: Exactly right.
Seth: In us.
David: Yeah. So, I mean, again, this is wh- what Seth's been saying. Like, this is like a ratcheting up-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... of like, okay, yes, it was good news on the first day of the Lord's mercy that God would come to the temple. Let's ratchet that up. What if God dwelt in every human who trusted in him? What if there were millions of temples walking around that God lived inside of?
Seth: Mm.
David: Like, oh, well, you could have Eden everywhere.
Seth: Yeah.
David: You could, you could be building the Garden of Eden everywhere. The kingdom could come everywhere. Like, God could go to the nations.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Oh, that's a good idea, God. Like, and that's-
Seth: We should do that.
David: We should do that.
Seth: [laughs]
David: And that's the promise that Joel lays out here.
Seth: Mm.
David: Um, and that as these people go with the Spirit in them, everyone who calls on the name of the Lord is gonna be saved. And, like, that's-
Seth: Mm
David: ... what Peter says happens on the day of Pentecost. The Holy Spirit comes on the disciples of Jesus in the upper room, they start sharing the gospel, people are cut to the heart.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: They're rending their hearts-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and not their garments. And he says, "What should we do to be saved?" You know? And h- and he says exactly what Joel says, "Repent and be baptized."
Seth: Repent.
David: Yeah.
Seth: "And be baptized, every one of you-"
David: Yeah
Seth: ... "and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
David: Yeah.
Seth: And, uh, and then what happens? 3,000 people are saved, and then the gospels, the gospel goes to the nations.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Man, that's good news.
David: Yeah.
Seth: For-
David: And now, like, there's temples in Sub-Saharan Africa and Oklahoma, right?
Seth: Yes.
David: Like, there's temples in Hong Kong and Brazil. [laughs]
Seth: Yeah.
David: It's amazing.
Seth: It's amazing.
David: Temple of God is everywhere.
Seth: Um, uh, my mind's kinda blown by that. I had not thought about the physical reality of the day of the Lord's mercy and judgment happening in Jesus for Israel-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... as a kickstarter for the day of the mer- the Lord's mercy and judgment for the nations.
David: Yeah.
Seth: I kind of forget... I just read myself into Israel-
David: Totally
Seth: ... so fast.
David: Yeah, it's... I mean, yes, that's... I do it, too. Yeah.
Seth: That I hadn't really realized how powerful it is to separate myself from Israel for a moment-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and realize, oh, because God was faithful to Israel-
David: Mm
Seth: ... now he can be faithful to me.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Uh-
David: Yeah, we're Cornelius in Acts 10. You know, we're not, [laughs] we're not Is- not, we're not even Israel in Acts 2. [laughs]
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yeah. It's amazing.
Seth: Um.
David: [sighs] Hmm.
Seth: Well, I don't have anything else to say. That's good-
David: I wish you guys had a front row seat to what I have right now.
Seth: [laughs]
David: Just sitting here looking at Seth's mind be blown and heart be blessed by scripture. It's a very nice sight.
Seth: Um, yeah, calling on the name of the Lord and you'll be saved. Yeah, that's, uh-
David: That's good news
Seth: ... it's good news, and it goes all the way back to the Book of Genesis. Whenever God calls Abraham and says-
David: Mm
Seth: ... "I will use you-"
David: You're right
Seth: ... "to bless nations," do you know what Abraham does? He goes to the altar-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and he calls on the name of the Lord.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And that's how the whole Israel project started-
David: Wow
Seth: ... was by somebody calling on the name of the Lord. And throughout the whole New Testament, Paul, Peter-Most of the epistle writers will use, or many of the epistle writers will use calling on the name of the Lord as the way that Gentiles are included in the Abrahamic faith-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and that all people will be saved, experience the judgment of their sin on the cross, and the mercy of the new Eden coming when Jesus comes again.
David: Yeah. The good news for us is this, in Ro- Romans 10, if you ever got walked through the, the famous Roman road-
Seth: This is where it ends. [laughs]
David: This is where it ends.
Seth: [laughs]
David: The v- the, the valley of decision is right here.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Make... But you're the one who makes the decision. Uh, Romans 10:9, uh, "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart," which is what-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... Joel, you know, told people to do, "that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Uh, and then b- and then down in verse, uh, 14, I think, let me see here. It's... It's here. It's... It quotes Joel. Sorry, I'm, I'm losing it.
Seth: Yeah. No, that's okay.
David: But it does quote Joel, and it says, "For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And it's like this is really good news for us that like, how can I be saved, right? How can I escape the, like, the day of judgment-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that's going to come? Like, okay-
Seth: How can I be part of the day of mercy?
David: Right. How can I be part of the d- Like, like, okay, Seth and David, I get it. I need to look around in the world, see the brokenness of everything from political fracturing to hurricanes to the flu, and know that, like, man, the world's broken, and that's supposed to point me forward to God's judgment's coming. I get it, but how do I escape that?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Like, how do I be a part of Israel? [laughs] Like, how do I, you know, uh, get-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... get on God's side of this battle-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that's coming.
Seth: How do I know?
David: Yeah. And, and yeah, and how can we know?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Call on the name of the Lord. Just, yeah. [laughs]
Seth: It's, it's, it's repent, lament, and call.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That's all it is.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And it's crazy how, um, that is the go- good news-
David: Mm
Seth: ... of the Old Testament.
David: Yep, it is.
Seth: A lot of us think the Old Testament's good news was obey the law-
David: Oh, right
Seth: ... and then you'll be saved.
David: Mm-hmm. No.
Seth: No.
David: No.
Seth: Repent for your sins-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... through sacrifice.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Obey the Lord, and call on him.
David: Call on him. Have faith.
Seth: Have faith.
David: "Seek the Lord with all your heart," Joel says.
Seth: Rend your heart, not your garment.
David: Yeah, God just wants your heart.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Like, that's, that's what he wants. He wants your heart. He wants you. He wants your love. He wants your trust. God just wants you to trust him-
Seth: Mm
David: ... above everything else.
Seth: And then we haven't even talked about prophesying, and then you'll get to prophesy.
David: Yeah, we haven't talked about that.
Seth: Ed broadcast episode. [laughs]
David: [laughs] That is amazing, though, that, like, along with the Holy Spirit comes this promise that we're gonna see visions and dream dreams and prophesy, which means, like, uh, saying the words that God says.
Seth: Which is interesting because Peter, when people are speaking in the languages of other people-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... he calls that prophecy.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Which is interesting 'cause, like, that's not, in my mind, like, that's the speaking in tongues stuff Paul's talking about in 1 Corinthians 13-
David: Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah
Seth: ... or 1 Corinthians 12, not this. But I think what he's doing is he's pulling all the way back to the Tower of Babel.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Which is, bear with me for a second, but why was the day of the Lord coming? Why... Who's coming into the valley of decision on that last day? People who think they know better than God, think- people who think their... who are pridefully setting themselves up against God's kingdom-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and saying they are superior to the one who created the world.
David: Oh, I understand, and that, that was the sin back in Babel.
Seth: And all the way back at Babel, what was the sin?
David: Yeah.
Seth: They believed they could build their way to heaven and become gods themselves.
David: Right.
Seth: And so what does God do on that day of the Lord's judgment?
David: Mm.
Seth: He scatters the, their languages. So when the day of the Lord's mercy falls in Acts 2-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... that day is reversed.
David: Yes.
Seth: The locust devastation of languages is undone-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... by the power of prophetic tongues-
David: Mm
Seth: ... to speak the gospel in all languages.
David: Yeah.
Seth: The good news that all can be saved who call.
David: That's amazing. Yeah, and I think also, like, um, in a, in a book like this where people are questioning, like, "What's up with these locusts? Why did all of this happen? How can we know if God will relent?" And they're listening to a prophet to tell them, "What's going on? Why is this happening? What will happen next?"
Seth: Yeah.
David: And he's like, "Dude, a day's gonna come when you'll have direct access to God, and you can ask him yourself. You won't need a prophet, you know, like, 'cause you'll have-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... God within you to tell you, to, to, like, help you navigate, to walk by the Spirit." You know, it goes back to some of, some of the other major prophets that said, like, um, that n- uh, in that day, when people receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, they will no longer go to their neighbor and say, "Know the Lord," because my law will be written on their hearts.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: It's this whole idea that, like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... the access to God that Israel experienced was always through a third party or a fourth party or a fifth party. [laughs] But, like, the good news of the Holy Spirit inside of us is we have direct access to God, and He can show us things and speak to us and give us visions. And, like, I mean, it's just good news that God-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... talks to us. I feel like that's, like, something... Like, prayer-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... us talking to God and God talking back, right, is, like, so normal. Like, I know non-Christians who pray.
Seth: Yes.
David: You know what I mean?
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: Like, it's, like, a thing. Like, there are neuroscientists who say, "Pray."
Seth: Praying and meditation does something.
David: It just, it's just good for you whether you believe in it or not, you know?
Seth: So crazy.
David: So it's like prayer is just... We, we're not blown away by it anymore.
Seth: Mm.
David: But, like, whenever it's talked about in Moses's day, right?
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, when he goes to the tents of meeting and he talks to God as one man talks to another in the presence of God, it says no one did that. In fact, the people would come outside of their tents to watch Moses do it, and they would be blown away by it.
Seth: Mm.
David: And it's like that happens now billions of times over as Christians around the world just commune with God through the Holy Spirit. There's billions of tents of meeting now that the Holy Spirit dwells in, and we have access to God because of what Jesus did on the cross. This is good news.
Seth: Some good news.
David: Anyway, I love that.
Seth: Well, that's pretty cool.
David: Yeah.
Seth: I think that's the Book of Joel.
David: All right. That's Joel.
Seth: [laughs]
David: Yeah, I love it. Well, thank you guys so much for listening. Where are we going after this?
Seth: Um, Obadiah.
David: Obadiah.
Seth: It's a one-chapter book.
David: So we'll be there for seven weeks-
Seth: Seven weeks [laughs]
David: ... and one chapter. No, it, we'll do one episode.
Seth: We'll do one episode on Obadiah.
David: Yeah. That'd be great.
Seth: Uh, but yeah, so thanks for listening, guys, and we'll see you next week. [upbeat music]
Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel creates short films, devotionals, and podcasts like this one. Everything we make is free because of generous supporters like you. To see our resources, visit spokengospel.com or subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. See you next week. [upbeat music]
