Intro: [upbeat music] Welcome to the Spoken Gospel Podcast. Spoken Gospel is a nonprofit dedicated to the idea that every part of the Bible, Old Testament and New, is about Jesus, and this podcast is our experiment to publicly test that belief. Every episode, hosts David Bowden and Seth Stewart work through a Biblical text to see how it helps us see and savor Jesus. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]
David: Well, welcome everyone to the Spoken Gospel Podcast.
Seth: Yes.
David: Seth, how you feeling today?
Seth: It's the early morning edition.
David: Yeah, we... This is the early morning edition for us. It's, uh, it's, it's like 6:15 we logged on AM.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Which is-
Seth: It's great. [laughs]
David: It's great. We're, we're doing it before our children wake up because we're under quarantine.
Seth: Yes. [laughs]
David: [laughs] And we've, we... So I brought my podcast stuff home. You, you're used to having your podcast stuff home, uh, so this way-
Seth: Yeah, I just, we just figured that me trying to do a podcast while three kids run around the basement above me is just not gonna work. [laughs] So 6:15 AM it is.
David: Yep, and so, uh, that's fun. And, uh, and this is a, this is a strange time. We just finished the Torah, uh, uh, on the podcast here. We just finished Deuteronomy, um, and we were about to jump into some new series and, um, and Seth called me yesterday and was like, "David, I think we need to get on the podcast and publicly reflect on Psalm 91." And, uh, and I just want to, like Seth, just like, you s- you can take some time and tell us why. Like, what, why is that Psalm on your heart, and what are you hoping to achieve by reflecting on it today in the midst of the coronavirus outbreak and quarantine and this strange season of slowing down and fear and all this stuff?
Seth: Yeah, I, um... It's actually funny. Psalm 91 is one of the few psalms that, like, I remember from my childhood. Like, my parents made me memorize it when I was, like, 13 or 14. Uh, so, like, in my head, like, my mind will go there fairly frequently and remember, like, just little bits of this Psalm. And so I was headed to, um, elders meeting, uh, yesterday at our church, and we were just gonna be praying. We were gonna pray for l- little over an hour, and, like, this Psalm kept coming to mind, particularly the phrase, "1,000 may fall at your side," in verse seven, "10,000 at your right hand, but it will not come near you. You will only look with your eyes and see the reward of the wicked. Because you have made the Lord your dwelling place, no evil shall befall you and no plague come near your tent." So and there's not v- that plague is such a serious word. Like, it's not used a ton in Scripture.
David: Hmm.
Seth: I'm not used to thinking in terms of plagues and viruses and outbreaks-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and pandemics, and so obviously, like, my mind goes here.
David: Mm.
Seth: And I'm like, "Wow, uh, what does it mean for us to be protected from plagues in a time where everybody seems either anxious about a plague or actually sick from one?"
David: Hmm.
Seth: Uh, what does Psalm 91 actually have to say to, uh, say to me, to us, to our listeners in a time when plagues are everywhere? Like, seems to be-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... like, omnipresent. Like, what does the Lord say when our enemies, like, seem this large and this big or this threatening or this like... Even if they're... Even like some people say it's, it's, um, overblown and, like, it's not even as big of a deal as it really is. Like, so what do you do when you don't know who your enemy is, you don't know how prevalent he is, but it's just, he's just, like, lurking-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... in the shadows? So what do we do with that anxiety? How do we come to the Lord?
David: Yeah.
Seth: And so I thought Psalm 91 would be a great place to just process for myself-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... um, and for our listeners. Like, what do you do when the enemy seems larger than you can control or just invisible-
David: Hmm
Seth: ... and you don't know how scared you should be?
David: Right.
Seth: How is Jesus good news in that s- such a s- scenario?
David: Yeah, I think it's also interesting that, that we're gonna use Psalm 91 to talk about, about that because I've seen it pop up in the last, uh, week and a half, um, over and over again as news of COVID-19 kind of started spreading around. Um, and the, the gist that I'm getting from people who quote this Psalm is, like, a sense of, like, blind indifferent protection almost-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... from this plague.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And I've heard people, like, almost name it and claim it, this Psalm-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... where it's like-
Seth: I definitely grew up-
David: ... it, it-
Seth: ... like that, yeah.
David: Yeah, yeah. If you've made the Most High your dwelling place, no plague will come near your tent. So believe in God and there will be this shelter around you, and you will not get the disease. And so it's like, is that what this Psalm is saying? Like, that's something I want us... like, that we need to process, um-
Seth: Yeah. That's definitely, like, as a kid how I thought of it. Like, "Hey, if I pray enough, like, I'll never get sick again. I'm bulletproof." Like [laughs]-
David: Right, yeah
Seth: ... like, but I don't really think that's what's going on here. But, um-
David: Not anymore
Seth: ... we should probably-
David: Spoiler alert to everyone
Seth: ... we should, we should-
David: All the tension is gone. [laughs]
Seth: We should t- definitely talk about that. [laughs]
David: Uh, awesome. Okay. Well then let's, um... We're, we're gonna do... We're g- we are still gonna do this like we normally do it.
Seth: Yeah.
David: We're gonna, we're gonna do our normal exegesis. We're gonna try to position this, um, text in its, um, near context, in its canonical context, and we'll look at the details of it and then see how it points to Jesus. We're-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... we're not doing a to- this isn't a topical sermon.
Seth: Right.
David: This, this is-
Seth: What does the Lord-
David: ... what still-
Seth: ... say to us in times of trouble? Yeah.
David: Yes. Yeah. So this is Psalm 91. Okay, an interesting thing, if we're gonna start with Psalm 91, about this is, uh, positioning it inside the Psalter itself-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... is, is something helpful.
Seth: Psalter is just fancy word for the Psalms.
David: Uh, yes. [laughs]
Seth: Is that, is that all it means? Does that... It means just Psalm, songbook, Psalter.
David: Yeah, the songbook.
Seth: Songbook.
David: Yeah. And so, um, inside the Psalms there are five books- Um, and, uh, we've actually talked about this on our introduction to the Psalms-
Seth: Oh, a long time
David: ... a long time ago.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so here-
Seth: I think that was with Jeff Vanderstelt, right?
David: Uh-huh. I think so. I think so.
Seth: Okay.
David: And, um, and so anyway, and so this is at the very opening of book four, which, um, if you're reading the end of book three, it kind of seems like this is the, the moment that the Psalms are mapping onto David's life. And at the end of Psalm 3, you kind of see, uh, um, the apparent demise of David's kingdom. And so Psalm 4 opens, and you're like, "What hope is there?"
Seth: Yeah.
David: And Psalm 4 opens, and it's a Psalm of Moses. And it, it, you know-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... it's, it's a very interesting-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... thing. Psalm 90, which is the Psalm right before this one, opens, and it's a Psalm of Moses. And, uh, s- many scholars believe that 90, 91, and 92 form a, a literary unit, and they were, they were used in liturgy, in practice, um, together, um, by ancient Israel. And, and so, uh, there's, like, this interesting story that's being told with these three Psalms. Uh, and, and the story's basically, um, Moses is, um, i- is, is kind of like, it sounds like he wrote Psalm 90 in, in the Book of Numbers, like during the Book of Numbers, 'cause it's just, like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... plagues everywhere.
Seth: And we just did the song of Moses in Deuteronomy 32. Is there, like, are there overlaps with that one as well?
David: Yeah, exactly. Uh, yeah. There-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... it, it, it does sound very similar, that, like, God's anger and judgment are going to come against the wicked. Um, like, what hope is there? Everyone's gonna die. Uh, their, their days are like, uh, are like a blink of an eye. You know, the grass withers and dies, and-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... man will return to dust, for from dust he came. And, and yet God is from everlasting to everlasting. Like, what are our days to compare to him? And it's just like, it kind of just ends with this question of, like, can we live with God? Like, can-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... can we live in this world?
Seth: If David, the best of us-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... the best king can't bring God's kingdom, can we live here? Is that kinda the question you come into book four asking?
David: Yeah, definitely. You're like, yeah, if, if, if David's kingdom's not gonna realize the, the, the perfect version of God dwelling with us, then what hope is there at all? And so, like, Psalm 90-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... opens up that question, and then 91 comes and answers it. And 91 comes and says it's all about where you're putting your faith.
Seth: Yeah. Which even goes back to Deuteronomy 32, where j- where he talks about, like, trusting the rock when he didn't trust the rock at Meribah. It's like, it c- it g- comes back to that moment where, like, do you trust, do you believe in God?
David: Right.
Seth: Yeah. That's interesting.
David: Yeah. And then right after that, in Psalm 92, and then we'll look at 91, right after that is a Psalm for the Sabbath, which is really interesting. So it's, it's, like, can we live with God? Can we find safety in this world? Psalm 91 says, yes, if you trust the Lord, you'll seek his salvation.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And then Psalm 92 is a Psalm of rest. Like-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and it's, and it's a Psalm of rejoicing. Like, it talks about how it's good to come near to God with tambourines and singing and rejoicing and thanksgiving. And, like, that is the place that God's salvation gets us, that in the midst of thousands falling at our side, in the midst of plague, there is rest and Sabbath-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and thanksgiving and joy to be had. And so I think that is liturgically-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and in kind of the near chapter context-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... of Psalms, it's happening.
Seth: But even, like, even, like, in Moses, like, the narrative of Moses, like, will God give us the promised land? Like, is this adulterous and-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... stiff-necked people gonna enter into the promised land? There's the song of Moses saying, "No, trust in the Lord." Psalm 91, "Trust in the Lord. He will deliver us." And then there's rest as they enter into the promised land in the Book of Joshua.
David: Oh, it's true. It is. It's a-
Seth: Right? Like there's that-
David: ... yeah, it's mapped onto the story of, like, Deuteronomy and Joshua.
Seth: Yeah.
David: That's very interesting.
Seth: And which I, I think there might be a lot of references to the Exodus story in Psalm 91.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So, uh, we should talk about that in a second.
David: Yes.
Seth: But that's super helpful. I didn't know a lot of that. So diving into verse one of Psalm 91.
David: Yes.
Seth: Then, "He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say to the Lord, uh, 'My refuge and my fortress, my God in whom I trust.'" So first thing you should know is, like, this is a d- like, the perspective changes multiple times in the Psalm.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And so this first two verses, you have the author's, like, declaration of faith. "He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say to the Lord, 'He is my refuge and my fortress.'" So whether this is David or Moses or whoever, it's a personal declaration of faith and trust in God.
David: Yep.
Seth: And then in verse three, he switches, and he begins to, like, proclaim the promises of God over the people of Israel. "For he will deliver you," verse three, "from the snare of the fowler." Does that make sense, like, this-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... perspective from personal trust-
David: Yeah. Yeah, you have these different-
Seth: Uh-
David: ... pronouns, what you're saying. You have he-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and then I and then you. And so the idea here, it's a very, it's, it's very different form for, um, a Psalm, especially this is a wisdom Psalm, um, and also a Psalm of assurance. And i- it's very different for a Psalm to, to, to just kind of make these declarations over people. "He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High."
Seth: Yeah.
David: Uh, and, and, and so he's, he's, he's ma- he's extending this to people as a promise. Like, uh, "This is for you." Uh, and, and that-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... language is, is also very reminiscent of, um, wisdom literature as a whole. And it's like, you know, uh, "Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked." It's, it's this like, here is a, here's a path of wisdom for you if you wanna choose to live by it. And, um, and then, and then he says, uh, that it's also a very personal decision that you have to make.
Seth: Yeah.
David: It's, "I will say to the Lord, 'My refuge, my fortress.'" And so-
Seth: Yes
David: ... yeah, anyway, it's kind of a, it is a distinctive of this p- specific Psalm.
Seth: And then I thought it was fascinating th- that in, in just those two verses- There are four names of God mentioned.
David: Yes.
Seth: There's f- like, and like every level of God's name.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So there's the Most High. That's like, which is, um, I think the first time it's used is when, um, after Abraham defeats all of his en- enemies and he meets Melchizedek.
David: Mm.
Seth: I think that's like-
David: Oh
Seth: ... so there's like a kind of-
David: I didn't look into that
Seth: ... a kind of like battle. Like the Most High, the God who routes the enemies-
David: Mm
Seth: ... like, and there's this tithe given.
David: Yeah, I know that, I-
Seth: And-
David: ... I know that Most High is also tied really closely to the temple itself.
Seth: Okay.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Which I was wondering, like, in the shelter of the Most High.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, is that like a-
David: That, that's-
Seth: ... code for temple?
David: It is, but it, but it also isn't. So like people-
Seth: Okay
David: ... like, so it's like it can mean the temple, and, and o- and this is actually this formula of he who dwells in the shelter of the Most High, that language formula w- was apparently used as people walked through the portico of the temple, the arch, the, the gate-
Seth: Okay
David: ... the entryway.
Seth: Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: That you could kind of picture a person saying, th- this is on their lips as they walk into the gate of the temple, "He who dwells-
Seth: Mm
David: ... in the shelter of the Most High." And like, and you can see them walking into the temple as they do this.
Seth: It's like as the shadow-
David: But then it-
Seth: ... of the archway, like, falls on you.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, "He who dwells-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... in the shelter of the Most High shall abide in the shadow" like sort of-
David: Abide in the shadow
Seth: ... the shadow of the temple.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Of the temple itself, like, covers you as you walk through it. Oh, that's-
David: Yeah. Yeah
Seth: ... that's super interesting.
David: But then in exile when this Psalm was used, you know, people were able to think about this and God's presence in a different way after the temple was destroyed.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And so that's when it's like, well, it also doesn't just mean the temple, because the Most High is everywhere, you know?
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so anyway, yep. Super cool.
Seth: Super interesting.
David: Yeah, so the Most High-
Seth: And then there's-
David: ... this is one name, yep.
Seth: And then the Almighty.
David: Yeah.
Seth: The Almighty. He will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. Um, so like again, a great name of like power and might.
David: Yes.
Seth: And then I will say to the Lord-
David: Yahweh. [laughs]
Seth: Yahweh, God's personal name. And I, uh, so the... I don't know if you remember Deuteronomy 6:3 where it says, "Hear therefore, O Israel, and be careful to do the law. That it may go well with you and that you may multiply greatly. As the Lord your..." Oh, wait. That's the wrong one. Oh, shoot. [laughs] I was quoting the wrong verse.
David: Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: Where is it? Oh, Exodus. It's Exodus 6:3, not Deuteronomy 6:3. Uh-
David: Oh
Seth: ... Exodus 6:3. Exodus 6:3 says this, "I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as God Almighty. But my-
David: Mm
Seth: ... by my name, the Lord, I did not make myself known to them."
David: Wow.
Seth: "So I will abide in the shadow of the Almighty." And then, "I will say to Yahweh" So, like, within the space of, like, one verse, you have, like, this, the whole canon, like, the whole Pentateuch like summed up in one verse. "I will abide in the shadow of the Almighty, the name that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob knew, but I will say to the Lord" Moses himself-
David: Mm
Seth: ... "Yahweh, my refuge and my fortress." I thought that was super cool.
David: It is. It's, it's a big deal whenever you're switching from these high, lofty names for God and then you switch to the personal covenantal name of God that was revealed to God's people-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and is linked to God's covenant, and you say, "That is the God who is my refuge and my fortress." Like, and, and-
Seth: Yes
David: ... refuge and fortress, those are military terms. Like, that's like a, an outpost-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... or like a strong wall that keeps you-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... from the enemy. Um, yeah, the personal name of God. And then just-
Seth: And then-
David: ... Elohim
Seth: ... and but my Elohim.
David: My Elohim, yeah.
Seth: My El- so like Elohim's like the general name for God, probably like the least personal-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... or like the most general.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: But, like, the personal name of God, Yahweh, is met by, like, my God.
David: Yeah.
Seth: My personal... Not my personal god, but yes, my personal-
David: Yeah, my personal God
Seth: ... God.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um, I don't know. I was just like, I don't even know what meaning to make from that except that it's beautiful. Like, there's four different ways to refer to God and four different implications for, like, God's protection and care of us.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Like...
David: Well, I mean, I think that i- i- if you're taking this turn from Psalm 90, opening up Psalm 1, you're looki- and you're looking for shelter, and you're looking for protection.
Seth: Mm.
David: You're looking for refuge and a fortress, and you're trying to build your trust and, like, say to your heart, "Heart, trust in this refuge" It's helpful to say that he is the m- the most high and lofty one, that he has all power, he's the Almighty, that he's the personal covenantal God of your forefathers, and that he is your God. He's not the nation's god. You know, he's not the god of someone else. He's not a stranger's god. He's the God who comes near. He's your God. So I think it, like, all those stacking terms for God, like, builds-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... trust-
Seth: Mm
David: ... in this God.
Seth: Or even, like, so like, let's, we're, we're in a time of coronavirus. Like, God both is the God who is powerful to save, he's the mighty God, he's the one who can wipe out viruses. He can wipe out armies, and he's also our God who's in our homes with us. Like, God is both mighty to save in front of us. Like, even the, the phrase like, "We'll abide in the shadow of the Almighty"
David: Mm-hmm. He's in front of us.
Seth: Like, that's-
David: Yeah.
Seth: He's in front of us, like, actively, like, absorbing the blows.
David: Wow.
Seth: And he is in our living rooms with us.
David: Mm.
Seth: He abides with us. He lives with us. He's my God. So I was like, even those, like... Like, that he's both personal and-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... like, military.
David: Oh, that's so good.
Seth: Like military, yeah.
David: I mean, and we get that kind of stuff from the next two verses that talk about God having giant wings, and we come-
Seth: Oh, yeah
David: ... and we come and sit under them, and it's this picture, straightforward, of like a mother bird with her hens, and you come and you nestle in, and you're safe under God's wing. But then he's also, like you said, this warrior who goes before you. Uh-
Seth: Yes
David: ... and, and yeah, it is like this. I think you're absolutely right to say that this is the picture that the psalmist is trying to give us here, that God is a warrior who goes before us, but he's also a personal, tender God who comes near. And, like, what good news-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... especially in a time like this- Where you are home more than you're used to being, and you're-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... you know, you're locked away, and there's-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... a God who comes near and nestles, nestles up next to you on the couch, and it comforts you and your family. But he's also out there in the world fighting and-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... defending, and, like, that's just, that's- that's good news.
Seth: Those are good picture, like, good categories for God. He's not just the intimate, like, boyfriend Jesus.
David: [laughs]
Seth: You know? Like, he's like, he's also, he's like, he's both. Like-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... he's doing those things for us.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um...
David: Well, should we talk about, um, should we talk about, like, what the, what is this- this terror that seems to be preoccupying the psalmist-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... here? He's- he's clearly talking about there is a deadly pestilence. There-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... there, uh, we need refuge.
Seth: A terror of the night.
David: There's a terror of the night.
Seth: A thousand-
David: Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: A thousand are falling at our right hand, 10,000 at our- our, or at our left, 10,000 at our right. All the cards on the table, I think he's talking about the Exodus. I think all of these, like, terms are g- uh, like a retelling of the Exodus narrative in poetic form, and I get that from verse 10, "No evil shall befall you, uh, be allowed to befall you, no plague come near your tent." So I did a little bit of work on that word plague, and I realized, like, it's used all throughout the Old Testament to refer to, like, God's judgment on evil, oppressive people. And most of the time, it's used to refer to the plagues of Egypt. Like, most times it refers to either the m- it, it happens most often in Exodus when, like, the plagues are being poured out. But the prophets will all make use of those same languages and refer back to the Exodus. And even when it's not used about the Exodus story, it's always about God's judgment and his punishment of evil, wickedness, oppression, sin. Like, it's always used of God's judgment. So when I s- as soon as I thought that, "Well, if it's Exodus, then, like, pestilence means flies and frogs and locusts. The terror of the night is the angel of death. A thousand may fall at our side and 10,000 at our right hand, but we'll only look with our eyes at the re- ward of the wicked." That's actually literally what happened in the land of Goshen when Israel was huddled in their slave tenements, and they were looking over the border into the city of Pharaoh, and it was falling apart. Like, even that phrase, "He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you'll find refuge," like, that's the picture of what was happening in Israel. Like, Go- like there's this, God's punishment of evil is falling on the land of Egypt, but there's this, like, covering over the people, like these feathers.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: These, like, wings gathering, and like-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... I g- I got this picture of, like, hailstones bouncing off the feathers and, like-
David: Oh
Seth: ... locusts be- like a force field, like almost.
David: Yep. Yep.
Seth: There's, like, this protection from the punishment of God by God himself.
David: Wow.
Seth: Like, he's, like, raining on Egypt where- where Israel lives. Um, but protecting them, covering them, absorbing, like, all that, all that, um, punishment-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... all that hail and locusts-
David: Ooh, wow
Seth: ... and death-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... so that they're protected.
David: That's true.
Seth: So when I re-
David: Yeah.
Seth: Right? And so when I reread this, I was like, "He c- like, he covers..." I, I couldn't help but read it in a lot of the Exodus story-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... after that.
David: No, I think you're supposed to. Um, and man, that's really beautiful. I was just like, I like closed my eyes and worshiped as you talked about [laughs] like this- this image of- of... 'Cause God said, "I'll make it"... In Exodus, God says, "I'll make a distinction between Israel and Egypt" and, um, the hailstones or, uh, the plague or whatever will- will hap- you know, will happen to Egypt, but not you, and it was like, you know, these force fields were around-
Seth: Yeah. [laughs]
David: ... Israel.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And I, this image of God's wings wrapping around his people as these giant stones from heaven fall and crush the enemies of Israel, and yet-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... they don't crush Israel, not because God had bad aim or really good aim. The picture here is that-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... God is sheltering them to take the blow of his own judgment.
Seth: Right.
David: Which is-
Seth: The, the only way that you can-
David: Beautiful
Seth: ... like, if he, if he says that his faithfulness is a shield and buckler, like a shield was like, everyone knows what a shield is.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like this full-body thing, and a buckler was, like, this kinda, like, smaller shield-
David: Yeah, a little circle
Seth: ... you held in your non-dominant hand.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Little circle thing. But, like, you don't need to wear those things unless you're actually fighting.
David: That's right.
Seth: So, like, there's not, it's not like they were, it's not as if God just, like, ha- there was, like, some kind of l- it's not as if there was a force field around Israel.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: I keep using that word, but that's, like, impersonal and, like... So, like, it's not as if there's a force field around Israel. It's that Israel would've been crushed by the hailstones.
David: Right.
Seth: Their, their crops would've been eaten. All their water would've been turned to blood. But there was somebody covering them with their feathers.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: There was somebody standing above Israel with a shield protecting them, fighting off the, the little other blows with the buckler. Like, there was somebody actively involved in making sure the judgment on Egypt did not befall God's people.
David: Right, and I think that, that is the hermeneutical key, or just, like-
Seth: Mm
David: ... say a different way, um, the thing that will make this whole passage make sense-
Seth: Yeah, I think so too
David: ... um, is unders- is understanding that this pestilence, this plague, this battle that's being fought is the wrath of God against sin, that this is-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... God's judgment. And that is, we, we not only get that from the allusions to the Exodus story here. We also get that from the context of the Psalms itself, that-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... if, if go read Psalm 90, the whole tension is God's judgment against sin. And so, i- Psalm 90 is asking the question: how will we escape the righteous and good judgment of God against our own sin? And like, that's why I said I think, you know, uh, Moses wrote that during the Book of Numbers.
Seth: Yeah.
David: When, uh, when Numbers, uh, when, when we see the, the old generation dying again and again and again and again in Numbers-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and their number- and they're- literally, we're seeing 1,000 fall at their side. We're seeing 10,000 fall at, at the younger generation's right hand. We're seeing literal plagues sweep through-
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... the camp and kill people, and the younger generation had to be thinking, "Is this gonna come for us?"
Seth: Wonderful. Yeah.
David: Like, it's come- it's literally like next door. Is it gonna come for me?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: I know God promised that the younger generation that I'm a part of will enter the Promised Land and find rest. You know, Psalm 92 rest. But is it gonna come for us? I don't know. And, uh, and this just seems to be answering that question. And so I think it's-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... just something to remember. I think it's, yes, absolutely Ps- uh, uh, the story of the Exodus, and I think it also continues into the Book of Numbers. Uh, and I think it's just, this is, this is what happens, um-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... over and over and over again in the Biblical story, that, um, God's-
Seth: God protects his people-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... from his own anger at evil.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, his own anger at sin.
David: Yep.
Seth: Okay, so we have these external evils-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... that are oppressing God's people, and then God himself coming in and dealing with them-
David: Yes
Seth: ... destroying them.
David: Right.
Seth: And so like even the phrase, "You will not fear the terror of the night," well, for those who call on, make God their refuge-
David: Mm
Seth: ... it's not terror.
David: Right.
Seth: Right? Like, like, "Oh, I don't need to f- it's not a terror to me. It's not intended for me. The arrow that flies by day isn't aimed at me."
David: Yeah.
Seth: "Or if it is aimed at me, I have a God who's absorbing the arrow."
David: Right.
Seth: Like, getting the arrow stuck in his feathers so I won't experience it.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: The pestilence, the stalks in darkness cannot come near me. I will only look with my eyes on the reward of the wicked, not because I'm inherently better than the wicked people, but I have a God who's fighting for me because I have trusted in him. I was gonna keep going, but I forgot what I was gonna say. [laughs]
David: No, it's really good. I, I think it, it's just, what you're doing is you're walking through the text, I think reflecting on it in the way that it wants us to, which is like, um, there, there are th- this, there's this outside judgment coming for sin, and that sin, uh, that, that judgment for sin is something I deserved. And it-
Seth: Mm
David: ... would have come near my tent just like the Passover, you know, the angel of death would've come near my tent.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: But I have made the Most High my dwelling. I've trusted in the Lord. I've painted the blood over my doorframe, and so I can-
Seth: Mm
David: ... whenever the whole rest of Egypt is afraid, when the whole rest of the world is afraid, I don't have to be because I am trusting in the Lord. Like, I have made him my dwelling place. I've put my stock in him. And so the question I kinda wanna ask now is, um, like, people want to equate this plague and this pestilence with COVID-19.
Seth: Right. [laughs] Yeah.
David: Right?
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: So is that responsible or-
Seth: Mm
David: ... horrible, or is there a healthy way to do it? Or-
Seth: Because if you said that COVID-19 is the plague mentioned right here-
David: Mm
Seth: ... what you're real- like if, and if they agreed with us up to this point, what they would really be saying is that COVID-19 is part of God's judgment against evil.
David: Right. You would have to say that.
Seth: Uh, you would have to say that.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And that's particularly hard because the people that are most likely to die from this are elderly people.
David: Yeah.
Seth: It's people that are, like, immunosuppressed.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: It's people who we normally equate with being already vulnerable in society. And-
David: And we know God cares for those people
Seth: ... and we know that God cares for those people.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So to say that feels really overwhelming.
David: Yep.
Seth: Um, and I've had to wrestle through that myself as I've been like... 'Cause I came into the text, "Oh, plague, that's gotta be COVID-19." And then realizing, oh, if plague is-
David: [laughs]
Seth: ... a ca- like, if plague is God's judgment against evil-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... does that mean that COVID-19 is, that the elderly among us [laughs] are evil-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and God is punishing them?
David: Right.
Seth: Like, that's like-
David: No
Seth: ... the question I keep asking-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... that I, like, that's the way that I keep [laughs] like, I don't wanna answer that question because that's... I don't wanna say that. Does that make s-
David: Yeah.
Seth: You know what I mean?
David: Yeah, and I think that, like, I think it, what's helpful here is, is to remember a few things. Um, like one, um, he's talking about the Exodus story, uh, which was a very unique, um, event in the world. God was-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... redeeming a people for himself, uh, a- and doing this grand, cosmic, historical, um, gesture to, um, show us w- how salvation is going to look and how he, he's going to redeem us ultimately in Jesus. And so, like, that is a very one-time kind of event that's happening there.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Um, and so where he's using plagues, uh, to bring about and enact his punishment. That's one thing to remember, that it's, it's a very unique event, uh, that, that they're reflecting on. The second thing to remember-
Seth: Sorry.
David: Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
Seth: No, I was just gonna say, but, but y- no, go, go, you, you go, and then I'll go.
David: Okay. [laughs]
Seth: [laughs]
David: The second, the second thing to remember, um, is the, uh, the second situation in which, um, people would've been using this Psalm, um, in Israel to reflect, which was the exile. And in the exile, God's judgment came not through plagues, um, and disease and frogs and hailstones. It came through the armies of Assyria and Babylon and, uh, you know, and, and, and yet there were these remnants, um, you know, strewn around the k- the different kingdoms of the world. That the, that the prophet said God would bring back into the land, and that the plagues of, uh, you know, Babylon is called a plague a few times in the, in, in the prophets-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... if I'm not mistaken.
Seth: That's, that's ex-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... that's exactly right.
David: And-
Seth: It's part of the reason why I feel okay interpreting plague as, like, God's judgment-
David: Yes
Seth: ... because it's used in the prophets-
David: Exactly right
Seth: ... to describe Babylon and Assyria and-
David: Yeah. And so, like, if this is the plague that pe- that, that, that's happening, it's... Okay, so it's not just diseases. It's also-
Seth: Right, right, right. Okay
David: ... it's also armies and governments-
Seth: Mm
David: ... you know, God uses to, to bring about judgment. So, like, there's two very unique sit- situations-
Seth: Mm
David: ... that we can think about God's judgment and this idea of plagues punishing people.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And in Egypt it was, uh, or in the Exodus it was Egypt, and yet in the exile, it's Israel that's punished.
Seth: But, like, that's God using both, like, microbiology-
David: Oh, yeah
Seth: ... and the most powerful nations on the earth.
David: Dang.
Seth: Do you know what?
David: Yep.
Seth: It's like there's, like-
David: Like the, the most high and my God. It's like the-
Seth: Mm
David: ... highs and the lows. It's-
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... yeah, that's crazy. That's nuts. The, the highest seat of power and the lowest-
Seth: B-
David: ... field of biology. [laughs]
Seth: Yeah, it's like the, like... Yeah. Okay. Continue.
David: That's nuts.
Seth: The third thing.
David: Yeah, the third thing is just, is just more of a statement, um, about, like, just how to view the world, um, and God's sovereignty over it, and that is that God does use, uh, world events and biology and things like that to enact His will, to restrain evil, to punish-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... evil, but also to correct us and discipline us. So when it comes from a father, um, to- towards a Christian, when it comes from God towards a Christian and towards a believer, it's meant to be corrective, not punitive, you know? And, like, that, that's something to remember.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So, like, God does use those things, but we also know that, that the world is just fallen. The created order is-
Seth: Mm
David: ... just fallen and broken, and there's death introduced in the world now, and weeds and thorns and entropy. Like, these things just exist-
Seth: Yeah. That's it
David: ... now in the world as part of-
Seth: This
David: ... it being fallen.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so-
Seth: It's part of the natural consequences-
David: Yes
Seth: ... of being out of the-
David: That's right
Seth: ... garden of Eden.
David: So we do not need, and neither should we feel the burden to, equate every natural, biological, political disaster to the active wrath of God. That's just not healthy-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... or appropriate biblical thinking. Um, when God used plagues to punish Egypt, He sent a prophet, Moses, to tell them that this was the wrath of God.
Seth: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
David: When God sent Babylon to punish Israel, He sent prophets to tell them that this was the wrath of God. Like, and so-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... I'm just... Uh, those are very unique events, which is why I brought that up. And so, like, this is-
Seth: Interesting.
David: And so I just think-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... I think it's helpful to, to separate those two things and say we don't necessarily need to find in COVID-19 the active wrath of God. It's just-
Seth: Right
David: ... it, it could very much be just that we're in a broken world and there's viruses and illness and death in it.
Seth: It, but even if... I think even if it is just a product of being a broken world, it's also, um, not outside of God's power to protect us from it.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Right?
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, I think... I mean, at the very least I can take away that from this. [laughs] Like, that God is my God. He's fighting for me. Uh, by the stripes of Jesus, Isaiah, I am healed. I don't have to fear COVID-19. I don't have to, like, fear a pestilence that stalks in darkness. And I think that's the way a lot of people experience this coronavirus. It's a, it's stalking.
David: It's like-
Seth: Nobody knows where it is
David: ... it's an invisible enemy. Yeah.
Seth: It's an invisible enemy. It, it could be at any countertop, in anybody's hand within six, within eight, seven feet of you. It could be there.
David: Yep.
Seth: Just keep to your six-foot bubble. Like, there... So even if it is just a nat- Like, we don't have to attribute it as the active wrath of God against sin, I, am I still allowed then to say to... No, the Lord protects me even when the enemy is just the world itself, right?
David: Yeah. I, I think, I think there's two sides of that. I think we, in saying that we don't need to equate COVID-19 to the active wrath of God, in the same way, um, God is over and is sovereign, is, has, and this is gonna offend people, but has sovereignly ordained COVID-19. Like, He's not outside of it. Like, it wasn't, like, an accident, and He's like, "Oh, crap. That wasn't supposed to happen," you know? Like-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and now He's trying-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... to, like, protect us. That's not how it works. Um, God, a- a, like... And, and also we need to remember that a- all the brokenness in the world is in a sense part of the curse from God. And so all pain-
Seth: Mm
David: ... illness, things like that, is just part of the judgment that stands against us generally against sin. That, that-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... um, uh, like, that's just part of being i- under the curse, and that curse is from God. And so in the same-
Seth: The wages of sin-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... is death.
David: Is death. Right. And so I say all that-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... to kind of pad the other side of this, of this conversation, is to say that, like, just, just... I'm not saying, like, we, we don't need to say that everyone who dies from COVID-19 is under the wrath of God. That's just not the way I, I want to paint this picture, you know?
Seth: Right.
David: But nevertheless, just being in a fallen world is part of being in the wr- under the wrath of God.
Seth: All death-
David: Yes
Seth: ... is a part of being, is part of the punishment-
David: Right
Seth: ... for evil and sin.
David: Right.
Seth: So COVID-19, car crashes-
David: Yes
Seth: ... um, heart disease-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... um, cancer.
David: Right.
Seth: They're... Like, this... Is God actively, like, manipulating cells to kill people faster? No.
David: Right. That's not what we're saying.
Seth: But sin-
David: Sin
Seth: ... always brings with it death.
David: That's right. It's just part of-
Seth: Right
David: ... the consequence of being sinful people in a w- world that's cursed.
Seth: And what that's doing for m-
David: Yeah
Seth: Oh, sorry. What that's doing for me then is, like, it's like I don't... Th- this text isn't really talking about how much or how little is God in control of the plague of death. What it's really about is God's protection of us-
David: Yes
Seth: ... from that thing.
David: That's right. Yeah.
Seth: It's the fact that He is our shield in that time.
David: Mm.
Seth: That He's our buckler, that He's like, um, a mother bird protecting its children. The emphasis is, here isn't on to what extent is or is not the plagues that we experience the will of God, the ordained sovereign plan.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: It's the fact that when there are plagues, when there are terrors of the night, when there is a pestilence that stalks and you don't know where it is, there is a God who is a refuge, a fortress, a protector, an absorber of those things.
David: Mm-hmm. Yep.
Seth: Like, that's where this text lands us. [laughs]
David: That's right. That's absolutely right. And, and so I think, to go back to your point that you were trying to make earlier, now that we've balanced the other side, is can we trust in God to physically protect us? You know, that's the question you were, you were asking. Ca- like, okay, so maybe it's not the active wrath of God, but can't He protect us from COVID-19? You know, like isn't-
Seth: Right
David: ... a- and, and, and I think it's helpful to remember what, what genre of Psalm we're reading. That this is wisdom literature here in this Psalm.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And part of wisdom literature is this if-then relationship with the world, um, that, you know, if you live wisely, your, your... it will go well with you in life. That you are-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... because you are syncing yourself up with the sovereignly created order that Yahweh has, you know, put in place over how He made everything. And so when you live in accordance with the creator in his creation, see- things tend to just go with the grain. They, they tend to just go well.
Seth: Yeah. Mm.
David: And, um, and so what's happening here is, is the psalmist is taking that idea and applying it to, like, hard life situations.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Where it's like, if you trust in God, it generally goes well with, for you in those hard life situations. But we need to remember that there are holes and exceptions in the wisdom literature, right? Like, uh, just because you live wisely doesn't mean nothing bad ever happens to you.
Seth: Against the people who wanna use this verse and say, "See? God will always protect us, no matter the disease-
David: Yeah, go-
Seth: "... no matter the hardship"
David: ... so go lick a counter. Go, go lick subway poles.
Seth: Right.
David: It doesn't matter.
Seth: Yeah. That, that's not what it's saying.
David: Right.
Seth: What it's saying is that we have a God who protects us.
David: Yeah.
Seth: We have a God who loves us. We have a God who's like a mother hen, protecting its children, absorbing, um, punishment.
David: Yeah.
Seth: We have a man fighting for us with both shield and buckler, but that does not mean sometimes the blows won't land.
David: That's right.
Seth: Like, that doesn't, that, that's not what it means.
David: No, it's not. And I think that's what's so important about this text, is it, and why I love talking about it in the midst of COVID-19, is because, like, this elevates our view. Like, our view needs to be elevated above this disease, and above quarantine, and above sickness and hospitals. Like, we need to put our hope in something bigger and more lasting, you know? What, what, what-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... what realization did you have?
Seth: I was gonna say, that a- that a- actual interpretation that no nothing bad will happen to us-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... uh, if we trust in this Psalm perfectly-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... is actually what Satan tempts Jesus with in the wilderness.
David: Exactly right. Yep. That's where we need-
Seth: So, so-
David: ... to go next, is how all this-
Seth: So the-
David: ... ties into Jesus. Yep.
Seth: Right. It's like, uh, throw yourself off this mountain.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Isn't... And then Satan quotes-
David: Yep
Seth: ... Psalm 91.
David: He does.
Seth: "For He will command His angels concerning you, to guard you in all your ways. On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone." Satan's temptation to Jesus is, "Hey, didn't God promise always, every single time, to protect you from every single thing if you just trust in Him?"
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And Jesus' response is, "You shall not put your Lord, your God, to the test." It's not about form- formulaic, like, A plus B equals outcome C.
David: Right.
Seth: It's trusting God with your life.
David: Yep.
Seth: And when he does that, what happens? Satan is defeated.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Like, his temptation is overruled. And what is verse 13? "You will tread on the lion and the serpent. The young lion and the serpent, you will trample underfoot." Like, when Jesus refuses the Devil's temptation-
David: Yep
Seth: ... admitting that there are times when he will be hurt by God's punishment for sin, refusing not only to be protected, he crushes the head of the serpent, just like Genesis 3:16 promised he would. And by Jesus refusing to believe that Psalm 91 guarantees protection for all time, He covers us with His feathers.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: He absorbs the hailstones, right?
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, if we believe that this Psalm is always guaranteeing us safety and security, Jesus himself disproves that.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Because God's own Son was not perfectly safe and perfectly secure.
David: That's right. Yeah, God, this is... I- it's, it's ironic, too, that, that we would, like, use a wisdom Psalm as an excuse to act unwisely. That [laughs] like-
Seth: Yeah [laughs].
David: Like-
Seth: To lick the subway pole. [laughs]
David: To lick the subway poles. It's like, that's not what this is about, that you're just like... Uh, this isn't saying, like, "Hey, Babylon's coming. Uh, everything's cool. You're gonna be safe. Trust in the Lord." And so someone's like, "Oh, awesome. I'm just gonna run out naked onto the battlefield and see what happens, 'cause I have a force field." It's like, that's not what we're talking about here. You know, it, it, it wasn't that in... I mean, look at the Exodus story. Those who trust in the Lord will dwell in the shelter of the Most High. Put the blood over the doorposts and stay inside. You know? Like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... this trusting in the Lord does not look like running after the angel of death with a come and get me, you know, sign tied around your neck. Like, that's not-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that's not acting wisely, you know? So there is wisdom in, in trusting God and putting your ultimate hope and faith in Him while staying inside and practicing social distancing. You know? Like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... there's, there's wisdom there, uh, that I think is really important for us to see. Um, anyway, and so I, I... Th- there's just so many ways to see Jesus in this Psalm that I want us-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... to go through and just reflect on.
Seth: Yes.
David: Because ultimately, this is the... If I, I, I don't know about you, maybe your- yours is different and which is totally fine, but for me, like, what I wanna walk out of, from this Psalm thinking about is that I have a greater hope. That I have, that there, there is a, th- one day this, all sickness will be gone. That one day-
Seth: Mm
David: ... all death will be defeated, and that no matter what happens on this earth or in my home or in my body, like, there is salvation for me, and there is a bigger, badder judgment coming that I will only look at with my eyes no matter what happens to me in COVID-19-
Seth: Only see with-
David: ... or World War III or whatever, you know? [laughs] Like-
Seth: Right
David: ... so let's look at Jesus, 'cause that's the, that's the beauty of this text ultimately-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... i- is Jesus. And so we've said it multiple times, and there's just... It, it bears recapping here and then showing Christ in it, is this figure, uh, uh, who stands before us in, uh, in battle, and we hide behind him in his shadow. These wings that cover us, that take the pelting heil- hailstones. This tent in which we hide that, um, you know, shelters us from the storm. Like-
Seth: This temple that we dwell in.
David: Yes.
Seth: Yeah, yeah.
David: Like, this is a picture. All these gorgeous, beautiful, multi-prismatic ways to see what happens in the body of Jesus on the cross. Like, He stands on the cross taking the blow for our sin, taking the punishment that is coming for us as wicked people. Um-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... like, we, uh, like, we sh- we should see that, that He is taking, uh, God's judgment on Himself so that the terror does not come near us.
Seth: Yeah.
David: We get to hide behind Him-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... behind the cleft of the rock and, like, take shelter in Jesus'-
Seth: His head
David: ... his body from the, from the active wrath of God that we absolutely do deserve.
Seth: Yeah, I don't think of the cross as like this active, active protection against-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... um, the punishment of God against evil. Like, I don't th- like, it's like, it's always in my mind, it's like, it feels like this giving up or like, not passive because it took a lot of effort to go to the cross, but like, there's like... But, like, to think of as Jesus is stretching out his hands on the cross, is that also Him covering his people with his wings-
David: Yes
Seth: ... is like this, it's really profound. It's a really profound picture of what the Lord did in Israel-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... but also what Jesus continues to do for us.
David: Right. And so I just think that's a beautiful thing that we need to name. Another is this idea of thousands falling at our side and 10,000 at our right hand, that, um, ultimately this, this kind of day will happen when Jesus returns. Like, there will be a day of judgment when the whole world will be put under the pestilence of God's judgment. And, you know, people will, will, like, say, you know, the wicked will say to the mountain, "Hide me," and they'll go try to bury themselves under, under a mountain. They'll be looking for protection and shelter in absolutely anything, but nothing will be able to protect them. But on that terrifying day, we won't need to fear, because-
Seth: It will not come near you
David: ... that plague won't come near our tent. Like, we, because... Yeah, it won't come near us.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so that's just, like, really good news too. That, like, there is ultimate punishment and judgment coming, but we as Christians don't need to fear it. Why? 'Cause we will only look at it with our eyes.
Seth: Yeah.
David: The closest we will come to God's judgment is seeing it. It won't come near us because Jesus has taken our punishment already.
Seth: Yeah. There's a lot of church fathers that over-spiritualize this Psalm, uh, and make it all about demons, [laughs] you know?
David: Oh my goodness.
Seth: Like-
David: Yeah.
Seth: Uh, did you know that? [laughs]
David: No.
Seth: Like, all about, it's all about demons. Um, but I don't think... I think it is fair to say that there are also satanic attacks-
David: Yes
Seth: ... against God's people. I mean, the flaming arrows, like, that's the way Ephesians talks about, like-
David: That's right
Seth: ... the flaming darts of the evil one.
David: That's good.
Seth: And we have the arrow that flies by day right here. And we also have Satan himself quoting this passage of scripture against Jesus in the wilderness. So it's not just-
David: Yep
Seth: ... personal sin. It's not just eschat- eschatological judgment. It's also, like, the daily pressure of Satan and his forces to get you, uh, to give into your, uh, desires.
David: I think, I think there, there is something there because of verse 12 that, um... And this is the one that Satan quotes, you know? Like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... right after the verse qu- Satan quotes, it continues. It's funny that he stops there because-
Seth: Yeah. [laughs]
David: ... this verse 13 talks about him being defeated.
Seth: Right. [laughs]
David: "You will tread on the lion and the adder, the young lion and the serpent, you will trample underfoot." Like, this is talking about the day, this is Genesis 3:15 that-
Seth: Yes
David: ... that, the, the promise that the serpent's head will be crushed. Like, that's the same language here being used, that the serpent will be stepped on by a foot.
Seth: So funny that he would-
David: And, yeah
Seth: ... choose that verse right next to [laughs] like-
David: Uh-huh. Sore about it
Seth: ... right next to the Lord's destruction.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Well, it makes sense. Like, he's probably studied and, like, been mad at all these texts of scripture that talk about-
David: [laughs]
Seth: ... his downfall and said, "What else does this thing say? Oh, there he is."
David: Oh, I could use that one.
Seth: I, I, I could use that one. [laughs]
David: Yeah, totally. And so, um, I, I think that, that, that's another place that I wanted us to see Jesus, is that there i- that ultimately the one who guarded us from the wrath of God is also the one that finally puts an end to sin and death. That he conquers. All of these, all of these, um, these, uh, animals, the lion, the adder, the young lion, the serpent, are, are all symbols throughout the Old Testament of kings and kingdoms and demonic powers and, um, like, even, like, the sea serpent, Leviathan, and all these-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... these, these ancient, mythical creatures. Like, God is saying that He will crush all of the dominion of darkness and chaos-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and evil in the world. He will trample all of it. And in fact, we will trample all of this too.
Seth: Yes. That's what I was gonna say.
David: Yes.
Seth: We will, like, we will say no to temptation.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, God will deliver us from temptation. That's the Lord's Prayer, "Deliver us from evil, Lord." Like, He will do that in us.
David: Yep.
Seth: We will become progressively more holy. We will look more like the Jesus who stepped on the sa- snake's head in the first place. Like, this is not just what Jesus did, but it's also what Jesus does in us-
David: Right
Seth: ... through the power of the Holy Spirit. We will trample, we will step on the Devil's devices. He has no power or authority over us anymore.
David: Yeah. And so, a- and it also does point us to the new heavens and the new Earth, when death and the powers of evil will be defeated forever, and there will be no plagues, there will be no sickness, there will be no COVID-19 and quarantine and social distancing and, uh, canceled church services and economic downturn and single moms trying to find a way to, you know, keep their job while caring for their kids. Like, it's just-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... like, a horrible time. And like, this will all be over. Like, this will all be better. All of this will be solved and put right. And it's like, I know that sounds like a fairy tale-
Seth: Mm-hmm. Yeah
David: ... but it's just the Gospel. Like, it's just, and like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that's good new- I think in times like this, when I'm, like, thinking about, "Wait, I'm in, like, day two of quarantine in Oklahoma."
Seth: Yeah.
David: "And they're saying it might last months." And I'm like, "I really need this good news that this will end, not just in Oklahoma, but forever." Like, I really-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... need that good news that this will last forever. Like-
Seth: You do
David: ... that this won't last forever.
Seth: You do need that good news. [laughs]
David: Yeah. And so, and then let's just end here with, so Psalm 91 ends-
Seth: There's-
David: ... in a very unique way.
Seth: Yeah.
David: It's not, it's no longer the psalmist talking to the, the people that he's calling upon to trust in the Lord. It's-
Seth: It's God Himself
David: ... God Himself talking. And it says this: "Because he", whoever this is who puts their trust in me, "Because he holds fast to me in love," I love that, "I will deliver him. I will protect him, because he knows my name. When he calls me, I will answer him. I will be with him in trouble. I will rescue him and honor him with long life. I will satisfy him." And I love the last verse, "And I will show him my salvation."
Seth: Yes. Eight different promises.
David: Mm.
Seth: When we know the Lord's name, when we love the Lord's name, Yahweh, when we love not just the Almighty, but my God, Yahweh, His personal name, which is revealed to us also as Yeshua-
David: Yeah, that's right
Seth: ... Jesus. When we know and trust, when He, Jesus, is our shelter, God will deliver us, protect us, answer us, be with us, rescue us, satisfy us, and save us. And I was, like, just struck too by that, those are eight different words that when I read them the first, like, three times, like, those are just synonyms for one another.
David: Mm.
Seth: But they're not.
David: No. It's good.
Seth: Like, He delivers us. He, like, He snatches us out of the enemy's hands. Like, He protects us. He fights and keeps fighting as long as there is an enemy. Like, He answers us. He speaks to us. He responds to us. He is also with us when we can't hear Him speak to us. He just sits there and is present, like Job's helpers were. Jesus rescues us, not just, when we're helpless, He rescues us. He over-provides for us. He satisfies us with long life. He demonstrates, He shows us His salvation. He proves that He's powerful to save over the enemies that are arrayed, because He rises from the dead.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: He demonstrates that He can save from the enemy, the ultimate plague, the thing that COVID makes us really afraid of-
David: That's right
Seth: ... death itself.
David: Yep. That's so right. And I just think that that is, that's the place to land this plane, and that's the, that's the place to end on, is that your ultimate hope is not surviving COVID-19.
Seth: Mm.
David: Like, your ultimate hope is not, you know, you know, staying in your house until this all weathers the storm, which you should definitely do. Like, there's wisdom here.
Seth: Right.
David: But that's not your ultimate hope. Your ultimate hope is the fact that there is something far more pervasive that will cover the face of this Earth far more than COVID-19 or any other pandemic or, or-
Seth: Mm
David: ... global, political, or weather disaster ever could, and that is that, like, God is going to bring ultimate judgment, like He did against Egypt, against the whole world. And are we going to be-
Seth: Oh, I thought you were gonna say the glory of God. [laughs]
David: Oh, I will get there.
Seth: The second one.
David: I will get there. No, I will get there.
Seth: [laughs]
David: But when you, when He's talking about showing them His salvation-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... He does it by, like, showing us the punishment of the wicked too.
Seth: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: And we see that, when we see the wicked punished, and us not, because we've hoped in God, that's how we see His salvation.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Like, and, and so, like, that's just, like, that's our ultimate hope, is that there will come a time when all sin and wickedness, but also all sickness and death and disease and decay and entropy are stripped out of the world.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And it-
Seth: The whole world will be covered by His feathers.
David: Yes. And then the whole world, yes, then the whole world will be covered with the glory of God. It will be wrapped up in God. The whole world will be nuzzled under the wing of Mama Hen God, you know? [laughs]
Seth: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
David: Like, it's, like, this, it's ama- and it's like, it'll, it'll be a fortress for us, but it'll be a fortress whose gates can just stay open.
Seth: Where there's no enemies.
David: Because there's no enemies.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So anyway, I mean, it's a beautiful text. I mean, i- is there anything else that you're thinking- More like low-level, even just like applying today-
Seth: Man, like-
David: ... as people are sitting in their homes
Seth: I mean, I can imagine there's people listening to this who ha- are actively, like, who are, are infected. Like, you know?
David: Yeah. Right.
Seth: Or have come into contact with somebody who has been infected. And I would just say, like, um, you can use this text to pray for healing.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: You know, it's like if the God who delivers us from the plague of death in His Son, Jesus, how will He not also with Him give us all things?
David: That's right.
Seth: Like, we can ask, like, our good Father for healing.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So, like, I, I, I would say, one, for, like, people who are sick right now, this is not illegitimate to ask the Lord for healing-
David: That's right
Seth: ... from this text.
David: Yep.
Seth: Um, and so I kinda just wanna end, like, praying for healing for people. [laughs]
David: Yeah.
Seth: But also, I would say, like, um, I wanna, like, also make this, like, outward focused in a way too, but, like, there sh- this should be a cause us to be compassionate towards those who are suffering under the circumstances.
David: Mm.
Seth: God, like, fought on people's behalf. He covered them-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... with His feathers. There are people that shouldn't leave their homes right now, that we can go buy groceries for.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: There are people who, uh, s- moms who are homeschooling their kids for the first time and totally overwhelmed.
David: Yeah.
Seth: It's, you can invite two kids over to your house and help them.
David: Yep.
Seth: Like, there are ways to be present, to be that mothering hen figure, to be that fighting shield figure in this text yourself. You can trample on the temptation to socially isolate yourself.
David: Mm.
Seth: Yes, we're under quarantine, but that doesn't mean we're not connected. You can engage with your neighbors-
David: Right
Seth: ... FaceTime your, your, your grandma. [laughs]
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, you could do the, you could do those things. Um, you can enact the role of Jesus as-
David: That's really good
Seth: ... our protector and our, um, deliverer.
David: Yeah. I love that.
Seth: Be with-
David: Yeah.
Seth: Or be wither. [laughs]
David: Or be wither.
Seth: Like, be wither.
David: Yeah.
Seth: He answers him. Answer your text messages from your lonely friends.
David: Yes.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yes. Absolutely. Man, that's-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that's just a, that's a good place to land. I really like that. I think that's good. How do we be like God to people? That's what we're told to do.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Be little Jesuses walking around this world. Like, how do we do that in quarantine? That's a fun, that's a fun challenge.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Um, and we do it out of the abundance of the peace and security that we receive in Christ. You know?
Seth: Yeah.
David: We don't do it 'cause we, we're gonna try harder than everyone else. We do it because we've reached a place of peace after reflecting on this text and reflecting on the gospel, and that place of peace allows us to go to people who are still in chaos-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and extend that peace to them through the gospel and through groceries.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, you know?
Seth: That's exactly right.
David: Yeah. So that's really good. Well, Seth, I'm glad God moved on your heart to have us reflect on Psalm 91 today. Um, I'm gonna surprise you with something right now, live on the air.
Seth: Oh, no. Go for it.
David: I don't, I don't know how you're gonna react.
Seth: Oh, gosh.
David: But we, um, we are going to do a special series next-
Seth: Ooh
David: ... that you're not prepared for.
Seth: I'm not prepared for it. [laughs]
David: So, um, a few months ago, I spent six weeks with Sam Storms, Doctor, Doctor-
Seth: Ooh, Doctor
David: ... Doctor-
Seth: Reverend Doctor Sam Storms.
David: Reverend Doctor Sam Storms, [laughs] uh, talking about how to read the Bible. And, um-
Seth: Awesome
David: ... we covered a bunch of different genres. We talked about narrative and law and prophecy and, uh, wisdom and the Gospels and epistles. We talked about all of those in six different episodes. And so I think it's time to release them to the world.
Seth: Oh, man.
David: These, these conversations we had.
Seth: That's amazing.
David: Yeah. They're really fun. And so, um, Seth and I are gonna keep working on, um, some other books for you guys. Um, we need some time to study and get our heads in some books. And so, uh, to make this, this transition out of the Torah and into some other genres, it just, the learning curve changes when we leave, leave the Torah.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so we're going to play these interviews I had with Dr. Sam Storms for you guys, um, over the next six weeks. They are going to be so good for you to listen to.
Seth: I'm so excited.
David: We spent so much time drilling down into the minutia of different texts. These just fly over everything. And how do you read law? How do you read narrative? How do you read epistles? And, uh, you know, Sam is just, like, a, you know, a renowned evangelical scholar, and getting to sit down with him for six weeks and talk about these things was an amazing experience, and I can't wait to share it with you guys. So that's what's up next-
Seth: So fun
David: ... Spoken Gospel audience.
Seth: I was wondering when we have another guest on here.
David: Yep.
Seth: So it's right now. [laughs]
David: It's right now.
Seth: See you next week.
David: So anyway, guys, thank you. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next week with, uh, Sam Storms. See you later.
Seth: See you later. [upbeat music]
Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a nonprofit that gives all its resources, like this podcast, away for free because of supporters like you. To help Spoken Gospel in our mission to speak the gospel out of every corner of Scripture and view all our free resources, visit spokengospel.com. [upbeat music]
