Seth: [gentle music] It would be illegal for a husband who had a hard heart to do this.
David: Right.
Seth: But God doesn't have a hard heart.
David: No.
Seth: The intention of the law was for people to be together forever.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So isn't there a sense in which God is fulfilling the original intent-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... of the marriage commands-
David: Absolutely
Seth: ... by coming towards his adulterous bride?
David: It's beautiful.
Intro: Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a ministry that's dedicated to speaking the gospel out of every corner of scripture. In Luke 24, Jesus told his disciples that every part of the Bible is about him. In each episode, hosts David and Seth work through a passage of scripture to see how it's all about Jesus and his good news. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]
David: Well, welcome, everyone, to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. We are continuing our journey through the Book of Jeremiah. We began our study looking at what is prophetic literature, what was Jeremiah's prophecy in general, and then last episode, we looked at Jeremiah, chapter 1, which serves as a prologue to look at his calling, what would the shape and, um, structure of his ministry would be. And today we are gonna look at more of a theme throughout the Book of Jeremiah, the theme of covenant, particularly as it pertains to the covenant between God and his people as a marriage ceremony, which they have broken, and Jeremiah's gonna talk about the consequences of that. So Seth, what is a covenant?
Seth: Wow. [laughing]
David: [laughing]
Seth: Wow. Not even a, "How are you? How are you doing?"
David: Nope.
Seth: Just like, "What is a covenant?" [laughing]
David: What's a covenant, man?
Seth: Oh, man.
David: How are you, Seth?
Seth: I'm doing good.
David: How are you feeling about covenant?
Seth: I'm doing- I'm doing great.
David: Yeah.
Seth: I'm so excited to talk about marriage covenants-
David: Oh, great
Seth: ... and covenants in general. It'll be a great-
David: It'll be great. All right. So but seriously, what's a covenant? [laughing]
Seth: Well, what is a covenant? So one of the things that Jeremiah does in his book that isn't unique to Jeremiah, but Jeremiah develops it in a way that we haven't seen in a lot of other biblical authors.
David: Mm.
Seth: But he really is intent on describing God's relation to his, his people as, like, a groom and his bride-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and that Israel, because of her failure to obey the marriage covenant, to remain faithful to her husband, she is like an adulterous bride, a whore, um, a lusty donkey-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... who's sniffing the air for more mates. And he spends a lot of metaphorical time building out this picture of Israel as this faithless bride to her husband, God.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Um, and that starts all the way back, uh, in the Book of Exodus on Mount Sinai.
David: Okay.
Seth: [laughing] Yeah.
David: All right.
Seth: [laughing]
David: So, uh, I mean, one helpful thing that we've done already, I think the term covenant can feel really religious-y, biblio language.
Seth: Yes.
David: Uh, but we understand what a marriage is, right?
Seth: Yep.
David: You covenant with another person, and there are rules implicit to that relationship because you're in covenant with each other. Like, maybe don't cheat on me.
Seth: Yes.
David: Maybe love and respect me. Don't harm me. Like, there's-
Seth: Yes
David: ... there are implicit things that go along with a marriage contract-
Seth: That's right
David: ... and that's how you're wanting us to think about the covenant that Jeremiah talks about throughout his prophecy.
Seth: Yes, and it's how Jeremiah wants us to think about it. So Jeremiah, chapter 2, his first prophecy after the prologue, uh, "The word of the Lord came to me, saying, 'Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem, thus says the Lord: I remember the devotion of your youth, your love as a bride-
David: Mm
Seth: ... how you followed me in the wilderness, in a land not sown. Israel was holy to the Lord, the firstfruits of his harvest, and all who ate of it incurred guilt, and disaster came upon them,' declares the Lord." So he's describing this time that Israel was in the wilderness before they came into the Promised Land.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And how as they entered the Promised Land, because of their faithfulness to God and the covenant, all their enemies were scattered and defeated before them.
David: Yeah.
Seth: He's saying, "Back in the day, right after Mount Sinai and during that time, you were like a bride with me."
David: Mm.
Seth: "You were like a bride. I was like your groom. That's what you used to be like."
David: Mm.
Seth: So Jeremiah wants us to think of Mount Sinai as a wedding day.
David: As a wedding day.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Okay. Man, it's a... That's a rough marriage ceremony, uh, and like a, a rough courtship.
Seth: Okay. Okay.
David: I'm just thinking, like, I'm not trying to throw Jeremiah's prophecy under the bus here. When I read the days leading up to and surrounding and following-
Seth: Yes
David: ... Sinai, it didn't look like-
Seth: It didn't
David: ... like, love, a, a-
Seth: Yeah, yeah
David: ... a bride-loving God.
Seth: Yeah, there's a... They have a pretty... A quickly... The love is lost fairly quickly. [chuckles]
David: Yeah, 'cause, like, they're complaining about no, not having food, not having water.
Seth: Mm.
David: They build a golden calf. They don't wanna even talk to God up on the mountain. Uh, you know, so it's just, it's interesting that he's remembering it in this way.
Seth: Well, so I think maybe let's just rewind a little bit.
David: Mm.
Seth: What happened on the mountain-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... is the marriage.
David: I see.
Seth: So God rescues his people out of Egypt. There's this height of emotion. God's presence comes onto the mountain, flame and fire-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and smoke. Moses goes up on the mountain. God proclaims over his people, "I will be your God. You will be my people." Everybody says, "Amen. Yes, you will be our God-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and we will be your people." And there's this intensity-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... of love, of affection, and a willingness to follow God's commands.
David: "Everything the Lord says, we will do."
Seth: That's right.
David: Which is what Jeremiah's gonna ask them to do the whole time. [laughing]
Seth: Yes.
David: So-
Seth: And what is the first command?
David: Love the Lord your God-
Seth: It's-
David: ... who brought you up out of Egypt.
Seth: That's right. It's, it's a command to be faithful to your husband.
David: Mm.
Seth: Like, even the-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... Ten Commandments understands-
David: Mm
Seth: ... itself in this love-like-
David: Right
Seth: ... relational categories.
David: "You shall have no other gods besides me. Don't take on any other lovers. Don't cheat on me."
Seth: Right. So there's a real sense in which on Mount Sinai, that big climactic moment, it was God's marriage to his people.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And then when Jesus summarizes those Ten Commandments, what does he... How does he summarize them? They're all commandments about love.
David: Mm.
Seth: Love your God.... and love one another.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Love me, the one who created this marriage, and love each other-
David: It-
Seth: ... all fellow brides.
David: It's a, it's a relational contract in the context of love and exclusivity.
Seth: Yeah, that's right.
David: It has all the elements of a marriage.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: That's exactly right.
David: Yeah, I follow.
Seth: Yeah, and I think it's really probably good to, like, name up front that, like, breaking the covenant isn't so much behavioral or-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... legal as it is relational. So-
David: That's really helpful, actually
Seth: ... So which is why Jeremiah wants to use all these really emotive, evocative images to describe Israel's apostasy from God. It's not they're just breaking laws, they're not just committing misdemeanors-
David: Mm
Seth: ... they're not just doing sins, they're abandoning their husband-
David: Right
Seth: ... who rescued them and wants to be with them.
David: Yes.
Seth: It's a relational breaking before it is a legal one.
David: Right, they've separated from their spouse.
Seth: That's right.
David: They've left, they've cheated, they- they've stopped being married, right? They've, they've committed a legal separation-
Seth: Yes
David: ... from their God.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And he's calling a spade a spade.
Seth: That's right.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So let me just give you a couple of the [chuckles] images he uses in chapter two. So he calls, uh, them a whore.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Israel is a whore for other gods and other international powers. They're like a camel running to and fro to everybody else besides God.
David: Mm.
Seth: They're like a, like a donkey in heat, lusting after other lovers, and whenever any of the male camels wanna find a mate, they know where to look, it's Judah. [laughing] Is... This is just in chapter two.
David: Oh, man.
Seth: Um, at one point, God calls Judah a bride without a gown.
David: Mm.
Seth: So, like, imagine a bride showing up to a wedding with no gown, 'cause she doesn't wanna be there.
David: Yeah.
Seth: She's, uh, like, this isn't her for-
David: Ooh.
Seth: Yeah.
David: What an evocative image.
Seth: Right.
David: It's like if you're the groom, and you're standing at the front of the church, and your bride... The doors open, the organ starts playing, bom, bom, ba-bom, bom, bom, ba-bom, doors open-
Seth: Yes
David: ... and your soon-to-be wife walks in wearing street clothes. You're like, "Oh, the wedding must be off."
Seth: That's right. [laughing] That's right.
David: God. [laughing]
Seth: That's right. So Jeremiah parades all these images, proving Israel's faithfulness-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... in their idolatry, their breaking of God's commands, their relational corruption, and in the beginning of chapter three, he quotes the Book of Deuteronomy.
David: Okay.
Seth: So he quotes the covenant, and he says this: "If a man divorces his wife, and she goes from him and becomes another man's wife, will he return to her? Would not the land be greatly polluted? You have played the whore with many lovers, and you would return to me?" So Jeremiah is quoting God's law in Deuteronomy.
David: Mm.
Seth: And it's, it's the divorce laws, uh, in Deuteronomy-
David: Mm
Seth: ... in Deuteronomy 24. And it says, if a woman commits adultery, and she goes and is married to another man, and that man divorces her for some other reason, and that woman tries to become married to her first husband, the first husband cannot remarry her-
David: Right
Seth: ... according to the law. Um, cannot remarry her, and it says that would be a pollution upon the land.
David: Ah, and so is he saying that God and Israel were married?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And so Israel then went and cheated on him with other gods.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: For God to remarry Israel would actually pollute the land?
Seth: That's right.
David: Ooh.
Seth: So he's saying, "And how's God gonna break his own law, Israel?"
David: Yeah, right.
Seth: He gave you this covenant, and you broke it. How can he now be justified-
David: [exhaling]
Seth: ... in taking you back? Don't you deserve the exile that's coming to you? So-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... I wanted to set up that problem really starkly-
David: It's helpful
Seth: ... because Jeremiah doesn't just see this exile as a sin problem or a relational problem, he also sees it as a covenantal and legal problem. Deuteronomy says, "It is impossible, or it should not happen, that an adulterous wife be remarried to her first husband."
David: Mm.
Seth: And if God said that, how could God be above his laws?
David: Right.
Seth: To, uh, heighten the tension-
David: Mm
Seth: ... of that statement, in chapter three, verse six and on, Jeremiah kind of doubles down on this. By this time, Israel has been divided by civil war. Judah, in the south-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... is still around, but Israel, in the north, has been exiled for some time by Assyria. And so he says this: "The Lord said to me in the days of King Josiah, 'Have you seen what she did, that faithless one, Israel in the north? How she went up on every high hill and under every green tree, and there played the whore?' And I thought," God said, "And I thought, after she has done all this, she will return to me. But she did not return-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and her treacherous sister, Judah, saw it. She saw that for all the adulteries, that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce. I divorced Israel by sending them away to Assyria. Yet, her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but she, too, went and played the whore. Because she took her whoredom lightly, she polluted the land, committing adultery with stones and trees. Yet, for all her treacherous sister Judah did not return to me with her whole heart, but in pretense, declares the Lord."
David: Man.
Seth: So what's happening? The impending divorce of Judah.
David: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Seth: What hope of reconciliation can there be?
David: Although this metaphor breaks down, or this analogy breaks down, it's, it's like you have two sisters-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... you know, and they each get married to faithful husbands.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And the older sister starts cheating, and walking out on her husband, and doing all these, you know, horrible things, and the husband's, like, patient, waits, but then eventually has to divorce her.
Seth: Okay. Yeah.
David: Uh, and the younger sister's watching all of this-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and she should have learned not to do those same things.
Seth: That's right. That's right.
David: Uh, but a- and that, you know, that older sister is Israel in the north, and the younger sister, being Judah in the south, didn't learn her lesson-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... from how God treated-... northern Israel, and he's like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... "I did it to northern Israel. I divorced them because of their philandering."
Seth: Yes.
David: "I'm going to do it to you, too."
Seth: Yeah.
David: It's impending. Yeah, wow.
Seth: So what's interesting about this is that I think as you read Jeremiah, you're gonna get this sense that Judah's sins are at a point of no return.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And there's actually no hope of a restored relationship with God. Of a divorce with God-
David: Right
Seth: ... what hope of a covenant can you have when God divorces you, when his own law says you can't reenter back into a covenant once you've broken it?
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So there just seems to be this finality of the exile, that there is no hope of restoration, right?
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: But at the same time, Jeremiah will say things like this in Jeremiah 12:7, "I have forsaken my house. I have abandoned my heritage. I have given the beloved of my soul into the hands of her enemies." So even though God is presumably divorcing Israel-
David: Mm
Seth: ... he's still calling her-
David: His beloved
Seth: ... his beloved.
David: And it's, like, breaking his heart.
Seth: And it's breaking his heart.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Uh, which is, uh, like, that's an interesting development. Wouldn't we expect God to be angry-
David: Yeah, right
Seth: ... at this treacherous, lusty camel of a wife? Like, like-
David: Right, he's like, "Good riddance. I deserve better than this."
Seth: Right!
David: "Yeah, you've mistreated me." Like, imagine, like, a, a, a right- or like a righteously angry husband at a cheating wife. It's like, "We're done."
Seth: That's right.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That's right.
David: He's like, "You're not my beloved anymore," but God does call her his beloved still.
Seth: Yes. So it's like he's still this beloved.
David: Mm.
Seth: There's this impending, irrevocable, un- u- un- undoable divorce.
David: Mm.
Seth: But then in chapter 3, right after he says that the, the divorce is final, he says this: "Return, O faithless children, and I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you back to Zion."
David: Mm.
Seth: "And I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding." The implication he says here next is that, "You'll be so familiar with my commandments that you'll no longer want to go to see the Ark of the Covenant," which is in the middle of the temple, "because it won't be made again."
David: Mm.
Seth: "There won't be an Ark of the Covenant after this exile. Jerusalem will nevertheless be called the Throne of God, and all nations will gather it to the presence of the Lord in Jerusalem. There shall be no more people who stubbornly follow their own evil hearts."
David: Mm.
Seth: So there's also this picture, at the same time, about this inevitable divorce that would be illegal for God to accept back his bride.
David: Right.
Seth: There's a sense that he- that God's people are still his beloved, and he will bring them back in this new reimagined Jerusalem, where there won't be an Ark of the Covenant, but where all God's people are listening to God's voice again.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Isn't that-
David: It's really... So yeah-
Seth: Oh, yeah
David: ... I see the contradiction-
Seth: Yes
David: ... you're setting up.
Seth: Okay.
David: So there's, God cannot accept back his whoring bride, because to do so would break his own law and pollute the land.
Seth: That's right.
David: Yet, God says, "I will break that law-
Seth: Right
David: ... and bring you back and accept you."
Seth: Yeah.
David: But there's another contradiction, is, is this even the same bride? 'Cause it's like you have-
Seth: Right
David: ... this whoring, donkey, camel, non-dress-wearing [chuckles] -
Seth: Yeah, right
David: ... bride who gets sent into exile so that God doesn't break his own law and pollute it. But then the bride that comes back-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... seems like to have the Ark of the Covenant within her and just obeys God, has no more stubborn heart.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: It's like, who is this lady?
Seth: Yes.
David: So it's like, those are the-
Seth: Those are-
David: ... contradictory categories
Seth: ... those are the contradictory categories, and you'll see them throughout r- the Book of Jeremiah.
David: That's helpful. Okay.
Seth: The inevitable divorce-
David: Yep
Seth: ... of God's people.
David: Yep.
Seth: And also the inevitable return of them.
David: So does Jeremiah ever solve that tension of God's unbreakable law and unbreakable covenant that's bringing about the inevitable exile-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... with the God who says, like you quoted in Jeremiah 3:12, "Return, faithless Israel. I will not look on you in anger, for I am merciful"?! This merciful, forgiving God who's happy to break his law-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... because he wants his bride so badly.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Does, does he ever reconcile it, or does he just hold both?
Seth: So he reconciles it in the innovation that we've talked about a couple different times.
David: Mm.
Seth: So throughout the Book of Jeremiah, he's gonna start saying things about a circumcision of the heart.
David: Mm.
Seth: He's gonna talk about a heart washed of its sinfulness. It'll... He'll talk about, in one of my favorite ways he talks about Israel's sin, is that he says that the, um, sins of God's people are written on their hearts with a pen of diamond.
David: Mm.
Seth: So, like, sin is so engraved into their stony heart that it's like a diamond cutting into stone. That's how embedded sinfulness is.
David: Wow!
Seth: But God will give them a new heart and write his laws on their hearts instead.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So there's all this talk of, like, a renovation and a renewal of the heart-
David: Mm
Seth: ... of God's people, that seems to indicate, like, the solution to this problem.
David: Mm.
Seth: Somehow, the legal problem of God remarrying his adulterous spouse is solved in this recreation of the heart-
David: Ah
Seth: ... and this renewing of the heart, which gets to the point that Jeremiah calls that renewal of the heart a new covenant.
David: Yes.
Seth: A new marriage.
David: Right.
Seth: Not a remarriage-
David: Mm
Seth: ... but a new marriage.
David: Mm.
Seth: That's part of the answer.
David: Yeah. Uh, what it makes me think of is something you said earlier that I found really helpful, that Israel's covenant-breaking isn't necessarily legal, it's relational.
Seth: Yes.
David: Um, they're not breaking rules, they're breaking relationship. And so when, when God says, "I'm gonna give you a new heart-
Seth: Mm
David: ... I'm gonna take out your diamond-sin-written-upon stone heart, and that can only sin, only betray, only whore, only lust, only cheat, only leave. I'm gonna take that heart out of you, and I'm gonna give you a heart, a heart that can, uh, listen to my law, obey my law, isn't stubborn"-
Seth: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
David: ... is what he's saying is, "I'm gonna give you a heart that can actually love me"?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Right?
Seth: Yes.
David: And it's like, what is the crux of the, the law in Deuteronomy and Exodus? It's, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart."
Seth: "With all your soul, all..."
David: And it's like-
Seth: That's right
David: ... we don't have hearts that can do that.... yeah, and so he, there's a relational problem, not a legal problem.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: It's that God loves me with an everlasting love, and I don't love Him back.
Seth: Yes.
David: I keep running away from Him-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and I need a heart that can actually love God.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So he's gonna give me that new heart-
Seth: Yes
David: ... that actually can fix the relationship problem.
Seth: Yes, and so what's interesting about the way that Jeremiah's gonna start solving this problem for us, is he's gonna take us all the way back to the creation story.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Uh, he is the only Old Testament author to quote this line from the Book of Genesis-
David: Ooh
Seth: ... which is the phrase, "Formless and void."
David: Ah.
Seth: Uh-
David: Uh, "In the beginning-
Seth: "God created the heavens and the Earth," and-
David: "And the Earth was formless and void."
Seth: And the Earth was formless and void.
David: "And the Spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters."
Seth: That's right, so he quotes that line, "Formless and void-
David: Okay
Seth: ... as a description of what God will do to Judah through the exile."
David: He'll make them formless and void?
Seth: He'll un-create them.
David: I'm gonna turn you back into before there was time.
Seth: That's right. And then when he starts talking about a new covenant, and when our hearts are gonna be remade, he brings back in all this creation language again.
David: Oh.
Seth: So, uh, Jeremiah 31, "Thus says the Lord, who gives the sun for light by day, and fixed the order of the moon and the stars for light by the sea, who stirs up the sea, so that his waves roar, the Lord of Hosts is his name. 'This fixed order departs from before me,' declares the Lord, 'Then shall the offspring of Israel cease from being a nation before me forever.'"
David: Mm.
Seth: So he goes back to creation, and he says, "Remember how I created the world? My love for you will not end, unless the world itself ends."
David: Right, which is saying that, like, it will never end.
Seth: It will never end. But what's I think is fascinating here, he's saying, "I'm going to un-create you."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: But-
David: I'm gonna turn you back into the-
Seth: Right
David: ... uh, the formless and void-
Seth: The formless and voidness
David: ... uncreated world.
Seth: Making a new covenant with you, I'm going to recall and renew all these creational promises-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and I'm gonna create you into something different.
David: Right.
Seth: The new heart is a new creation, which is exactly what the Apostle Paul will call-
David: Mm. That's right
Seth: ... our relationship in Christ.
David: Anyone who's in Christ-
Seth: Is a-
David: ... new creation.
Seth: Is a new creation.
David: Mm.
Seth: So I think we're onto something when we start talking about, like... It's almost as if we're not the same people anymore.
David: Right.
Seth: And we-
David: And there's this new bride coming out of exile.
Seth: That's right.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So all these ideas that we're talking about-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... divorce, creation, un-creation, the legal requirements of what divorce should and shouldn't be.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Jesus actually talks about all this-
David: Mm
Seth: ... when he's talking to the Pharisees. The Pharisees wanna trap him in this intramural, pharisaical debate about the, the limits of divorce, and they ask him his opinion on the matter.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And then he responds by saying, "Well, what does the law say?" And the Pharisees respond by saying, "Well, it says, 'Let the man write a certificate of divorce, and, you know, send the wife away.'" And then Jesus said, "Well, the only reason Moses wrote that was because-
David: Was for your hard hearts
Seth: ... of your hardness of heart. But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: "For this reason, man shall leave his father and mother, and the two shall be united. Uh, so they're no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, let no one separate." So Jesus seems to be, like, debating with God's own law-
David: Mm
Seth: ... in a sense, right? Here he's saying, "The purpose of the divorce laws was to give allowances for your hardness of heart."
David: It was an, uh, it was a kind accommodation-
Seth: To your sinfulness.
David: To your sinfulness.
Seth: But God has this intention that once he has joined himself to somebody-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... that will never be abolished.
David: Mm.
Seth: That's the purpose of marriage.
David: Right, yes, that is, that's its meaning and purpose.
Seth: That is its meaning.
David: Yes.
Seth: And if God has married himself-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... to a bride, but he commits no sin, and cannot break laws-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and has no hardness of heart in himself, isn't he allowed to remarry the bride who's been faithful to him?
David: Mm.
Seth: It would be illegal for a husband who had a hard heart to do this-
David: Right
Seth: ... but God doesn't have a hard heart.
David: No.
Seth: The intention of the law was for people to be together forever.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So isn't there a sense in which God is fulfilling the original intent-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... of the marriage commands by-
David: Absolutely
Seth: ... coming towards his adulterous bride?
David: That's beautiful. Yes, and...
Seth: And?
David: Yes, and. Um, you know, Jesus also says, in a similar context, uh, "I do not permit anyone to get a divorce, except for marital unfaithfulness."
Seth: He does say that.
David: And so it's like there is this loophole-
Seth: Right
David: ... that Israel has fulfilled.
Seth: Oh, yes, that's right!
David: They've been marily- maritally unfaithful-
Seth: That's right
David: ... and God has every right to divorce them.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Like, even by his own law, even the law of Christ-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... has allowed for the divorce, but he still doesn't divorce them.
Seth: That's right. [gentle music]
David: And so, like, what I'm- what I found really fascinating when we were reading Jeremiah 2 and 3, and we were looking at this-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... idea of, "God's law says, a man shall not be rejoined to an adulterous wife, or else-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... it would be a pollution," and we set up this legal problem.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: I was like, "Oh, my goodness, Paul quotes this in Romans 7."
Seth: He does?
David: He quotes this exact thing-
Seth: Did I totally miss this?
David: ... in Romans 7, and he brings up, it's a matter of the law. And he- and so you have this situation where there's this potential adultery, and if a, you know, a, a wife can't leave her husband until-
Seth: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
David: ... he dies, and it's like, so how do you deal with this whole, like, adultery, new husband issue?
Seth: Oh, yeah.
David: A death has to occur. [chuckles]
Seth: A death has to occur.
David: [chuckles] And so, like, what do you-
Seth: That's right.
David: Yeah, so, so let me just read it. So, um, uh, this is Romans 7:2, "For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress, a whore, if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man, she is not an adulteress." And so you have this situation-
Seth: Mm, mm
David: ... in which Jesus has died, and, uh, that's what it goes on to say, is that-
Seth: Mm
David: ... the legal requirements of the law, is what it says next-
Seth: Yes
David: ... has been fulfilled for us in Christ. The righteousness of the laws-
Seth: Yes
David: ... has been fulfilled for us in Christ, therefore, uh-... we who would have maybe stumbled into an adulterous relationship-
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Having rejoined ourselves [chuckles] to-
Seth: Yes
David: ... Jesus, that has been dealt with because the husband has died.
Seth: Yes, the husband has died.
David: [chuckles]
Seth: Interesting.
David: And so the, like, so [laughs] it's just fascinating to me.
Seth: No, it is fascinating, and it's like, and in Jeremiah's case, the wife must die.
David: Right, they both died, so it's a new covenant. [chuckles]
Seth: It's a new covenant. It has to be a new covenant.
David: [laughs]
Seth: It has to- it's like the old rules don't apply anymore-
David: The old rules don't apply
Seth: ... because everyone has died. [laughs]
David: Husband and wife have both died on the cross-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and meet in a new resurrection for a new marriage that will last forever.
Seth: Yes. [laughs] That's too good. There-
David: Therefore, there is no condemnation-
Seth: Uh, I-
David: ... for those who are in Christ Jesus. [chuckles]
Seth: There is a lawyer out there that I really want to, like, lay this out as like a court precedent.
David: Yes.
Seth: And like, [chuckles] there's... It just it's funny to me.
David: I w- I wanna see it as a scripted legal drama.
Seth: Yeah. [laughs]
David: [chuckles] That would be a great show.
Seth: Objection!
David: I would watch that.
Seth: But what if both of them die? [laughs]
David: Uh, I don't know. [laughs] That'd be fascinating. Anyway-
Seth: Anyway
David: ... that's how Jeremiah begins to solve the problem.
Seth: Yes, that's exactly right.
David: And how Jesus ultimately solves it, and then Paul brings it home.
Seth: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's exactly right.
David: That is amazing.
Seth: That... Yes.
David: Wow.
Seth: So let's talk about some other ideas.
David: Okay.
Seth: So that there, that's the, the, the cheating bride, the new covenant. Let's just talk about... Okay, so there was an old covenant on Mount Sinai that they broke.
David: Mm.
Seth: But through the death of both Israel in exile and Jesus on... God Himself on the cross, a new covenant can be made-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and God's people can be remarried to God.
David: Right.
Seth: Awesome. What exactly does that mean then?
David: Oh, yeah.
Seth: So what is Jeremiah talking about when he says, like, "There will be no more sin in the land of Judah?"
David: Yeah.
Seth: "God's people will return to their land, and we will have hearts that are-
David: No longer stubborn
Seth: ... no longer stubborn, but the law of God is written on them."
David: Yeah.
Seth: So like, we now live in the new covenant era. We live on this side of J- what Jeremiah hoped for. So what does the new covenant mean for us-
David: Oof
Seth: ... is the question.
David: Yeah.
Seth: What does that new law written on our hearts?
David: Yeah, 'cause... Okay, so because we are, as the New Testament tells us, we are the bride of Christ.
Seth: That's right.
David: He is our bridegroom.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: We are His bride. He has washed us and renewed us, and there's a marriage, and we're looking forward to our wedding day when we'll show up in a, a dress and-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... not show up in our street clothes. [chuckles]
Seth: Yeah.
David: And we'll actually be joined with Jesus forever to be one flesh, and never shall those two part. But right now-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... we still do kinda have some stubborn hearts, and we do still sin-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and our land is not perfect. Neither are our churches.
Seth: Yep.
David: So it doesn't seem like it's fully come true yet.
Seth: Yeah, so we talked about this, I think it was in the last episode, is that when Jeremiah starts talking about the new covenant, he starts talking about Judah's return to their land-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... the rebuilding of the temple, the re- like, the real geopolitical restructuring of God's-
David: Yep
Seth: ... of that nation.
David: And Daniel definitely thought that that's what it was gonna look like.
Seth: That's right, yeah.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And it did happen.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Ezra and Nehemiah-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... started rebuilding this thing. But we're like, "That can't be the full extent of the new covenant promises-
David: Mm
Seth: ... because the hearts of God's people were still hard."
David: Yep.
Seth: And we know that because when Jesus comes on the scene, the Pharisees and religious leaders, along with a lot of people of Israel, wanted to kill Him-
David: Yep
Seth: ... uh, for the message that He was bringing and the covenant that He wanted to establish.
David: Yep.
Seth: Right? So, like, but-
David: It hadn't, hadn't happened yet. Jeremiah's promises and this new covenant thing hasn't fully happened-
Seth: Right
David: ... yet at the time of Jesus.
Seth: But when Jesus comes on the scene-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... the day be- one of the... I thought the day before He dies. Yeah, the Holy Thursday.
David: Holy Thursday?
Seth: Holy Thursday. He, uh-
David: Mau- Maundy Thursday.
Seth: Maundy Thursday.
David: Yep.
Seth: He-
David: New covenant.
Seth: He gathers His disciples-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... in the upper room, and He quotes the Book of Jeremiah and holds up the Passover cup of-
David: Mm
Seth: ... wine and the bread and said, "This is a new covenant in my blood. On the day that I die-
David: Mm. A- and just to pause there.
Seth: Yep.
David: Uh, the, the Passover was the story of the Exodus.
Seth: That's right.
David: Right? The leaving, to go where? To the place of the covenant ceremony at Sinai-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... where the first covenant was given.
Seth: That's right.
David: The first marriage.
Seth: That's right.
David: And Jesus is, like, there... So, so when He's holding the blood and the bread, He's talking about a new Passover, a new Exodus.
Seth: A new Mount Sinai moment.
David: So, "Hey, let's come to Mount Sinai again. Let's get married again."
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Continue.
Seth: And so on the cross, Jesus dies, and that becomes the moment of marriage for all believers since Jesus's death to now.
David: Mm.
Seth: We unite at the cross. We are now married to Christ-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... when we trust in what the cross did for us-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and brings about the new covenant.
David: Yes.
Seth: But all of Jeremiah's prophecies haven't come true yet.
David: Right.
Seth: We're still sinning. We're still doing all these things.
David: Yes.
Seth: So what's the innovation? What's the new covenant feel like-
David: Ah
Seth: ... to be in it until it's perfected when Christ returns?
David: That's a helpful, that's a helpful question. Let, let me try to state it even stronger-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... just to get to the existential issue I think most Christians face-
Seth: Yep
David: ... which is, if Christ is in me, if I have the Holy Spirit, if I'm really a new creation, why do I keep on sinning? Why do I still look like the old bride-
Seth: Right
David: ... if I'm supposed to be the new one?
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, what's going on there? Is that, is that what we're talking about?
Seth: Yeah.
David: Am I any different than people under the old covenant?
Seth: Yeah.
David: What's the innovation?
Seth: Right.
David: Okay.
Seth: And the innovation is the Holy Spirit.
David: Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: [laughs] The innovation is the Holy Spirit. He, um... I don't even know how to start talking about the Holy Spirit. [laughs]
David: Oh, boy. [laughs]
Seth: It's, like, a whole, a whole thing.
David: It's a whole thing.
Seth: Um, but just before Jesus dies-
David: Mm
Seth: ... He's talking to His disciples in the upper room, in the same meeting where He tells them about the new covenant, and He says that, "It's better that I go away-
David: Right
Seth: ... because when I go away, a helper is gonna be sent to you, an advocate."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: "And He's gonna teach you everything I said, and He's gonna call to mind everything I said, and He's gonna live inside you to help you and to comfort you."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And He's talking about His Holy Spirit.
David: Right.
Seth: And He's saying that this Holy Spirit would be better than His physical presence on the Earth, and that Holy Spirit would imbibe and live in His disciples to teach them how to live-... in this new covenant.
David: Yep.
Seth: And in that moment, when the Holy Spirit enters their hearts, the law of God is written on their hearts.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So, and so we probably need to talk about what that means, but, like, that's what the innovation is.
David: Right.
Seth: The Old Testament believers did not have the Holy Spirit in the same way that Jesus tells us that we have the Holy Spirit.
David: That's right. Yeah, and Jeremiah foreshadows how that innovation will occur because he talks about how God took his hand and put his word in his mouth.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And it was like- and it's like a fire-
Seth: Yeah, yeah
David: ... in his mouth, right?
Seth: Yeah.
David: And then when the Holy Spirit comes to these disciples that Jesus was talking to-
Seth: Oh, yes, that's right
David: ... it's flaming mouthpieces.
Seth: Yes, tongues of fire!
David: Flaming tongues-
Seth: Yes
David: ... come and change them from, you know, people argue about this, but cowering disciples in the upper room to passionate evangelists out on the street, you know?
Seth: Yeah.
David: And it's... It happened. What God says, they say.
Seth: Yeah.
David: They become these Jeremiah-like proclaimers-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... of the other side of his prophecies, so it's really fascinating.
Seth: Yes, and-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... how does God create anything to begin with?
David: Like, back in the beginning?
Seth: Over the face of the waters, his spirit-
David: Ah
Seth: ... hovered over the face of the waters to bring forth land, and animals, and people. And so-
David: Yes
Seth: ... again, in Acts 2-
David: Right
Seth: ... the Holy Spirit falls. They're-
David: Mm
Seth: ... recreating hearts, recreating people.
David: It, it, it might be hard for us to explain-
Seth: Okay
David: ... like, like, what we're trying to do right now.
Seth: Yeah.
David: But it is the biblical pattern-
Seth: That's right
David: ... that the Holy Spirit's job is new creation. [chuckles]
Seth: Yeah, that's right.
David: It's like-
Seth: Yes
David: ... in the beginning, there wa- it was formless and void, and God's Spirit hovered over the face of the water, and he spoke. So you have the Spirit and the Word-
Seth: Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm
David: ... [chuckles] and those two things worked out new creation, sun, moon, stars-
Seth: Yes
David: ... plants, animals, humans. And when it happens again, this new creation, it's the Holy Spirit's work. So what's the innovation?
Seth: It's that- [chuckles]
David: New creation and the Holy Spirit. [chuckles]
Seth: Yes, living inside us perpetually.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And so, and let's talk about what it means to have the law written on our hearts.
David: Yes.
Seth: So the reality was that for Israel, God's presence, his Holy Spirit-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... dwelt outside of them. He lived in a tent-
David: Yes, in the Ark of the Covenant
Seth: ... at the Ark of the Covenant, around the laws.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So God's Spirit and law-
David: Yep
Seth: ... were in the tabernacle, right? Right.
David: Yes.
Seth: And so if you wanted to obey the law-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... if you wanted to follow the covenant, if you wanted to be in right relationship with God, you had to look somewhere. You had to look to the temple.
David: Yes.
Seth: You had to be reminded of the things that it said. You had to be constantly updated on whatever new thing was being communicated from God-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... through the mouth of the prophets and through the mouth-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... mouth of the priests.
David: And to get into that presence, even symbolically, you were carried into the presence of God through sacrifice, blood, and atonement.
Seth: That's right.
David: And that's how you spiritually, and even imaginatively, got close to the mercy seat. The, the Ark of the Covenant of God was when a animal's blood was sprinkled on it.
Seth: Right, like-
David: You're like, "Okay, that's me. I'm there. Me and God are close," but in this-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... imaginative sense.
Seth: How do you get close to the Word and the Spirit, or the Covenant and the Spirit? Is you go through all this blood and sacrifice-
David: That's right
Seth: ... and travel to it.
David: That's right.
Seth: Right.
David: Yep, but when Jesus instituted the new marriage-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... he died on the cross, and just like at Sinai, there was blackness and, like, a storm event-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and that tabernacle-
Seth: That blood
David: ... that, that, that, you know, you needed-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... blood to pass through, and that the marriage, the original marriage covenant set up-
Seth: Mm
David: ... the laws for that tabernacle. The, the main curtain was ripped in two-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... so that we could see that the-
Seth: Our-
David: ... our husband- [chuckles]
Seth: The Spirit and the Word, the Spirit and the Covenant would come out of the temple-
David: Through the sacrifice of our, of our husband
Seth: ... into us.
David: Yes.
Seth: Yes, so that's, like, the biblical story of-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... how that happens. And when it resides into our heart, I think the question then is like, so why is that... It's hard for me to imagine what it would've been like to not have the law written on my... 'Cause as a Christian-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... the Bible describes my, my lived reality-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... as having the law written on my heart, and it's hard for me to imagine what that would've felt like-
David: Yes
Seth: ... otherwise. But here's the best way that I've-
David: Okay
Seth: ... kind of learned to describe it, is that God's laws were given to a nomadic people in the desert-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... several thousand years ago, [chuckles] right?
David: Yep. Yes.
Seth: And as God's people traveled through the lands, new laws were added to that thing.
David: Right.
Seth: And we talked about this way, way, way, way back in the day-
David: Way back
Seth: ... day, but, like, not even all the laws in the Old Testament-
David: Agree with each other [chuckles]
Seth: ... uh, or are enough to govern a nation.
David: Oh, yes!
Seth: They're not enough to govern a nation.
David: Yeah.
Seth: You need more laws to-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... Well, what do you do?
David: Because new circumsta- I, I don't mean they contradict each other.
Seth: Yeah.
David: I mean, they had to be... They had to grow-
Seth: They had to grow
David: ... because new circumstances showed up. It's like, okay, I know what that law said-
Seth: Right
David: ... but how do we handle it when this happens?
Seth: A great example of that is the law says that, uh, men pass on property to other men.
David: To their sons.
Seth: To their sons.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Um, however, there was once a man named Zelophehad, who had five daughters.
David: Ah, no sons.
Seth: No sons. So is he allowed to pass on the property to his daughters?
David: Right.
Seth: Well, there's no law about that.
David: And the law says, like, it has to continue being passed along. The land can't go defunct.
Seth: Right.
David: So there seems to be a, a, a contradiction. We have to have a development.
Seth: So Moses asked God, and M-M- God says, "Yeah, pass the do- land on to your daughters. Let's write-"
David: "Let's write a new law."
Seth: "Let's write a new law."
David: Yeah.
Seth: So there was this constant development of what it meant to be God's people in new places and at new times.
David: Right.
Seth: And the only way to have access to that wisdom and that developing legal code was through prophets, priests, a sacrificial system, and access to God's presence in a temple.
David: Right.
Seth: But now, that developing law code that gives us guidance to live in situations that we've never imagined before-
David: Yes
Seth: ... is now our constant intuition living inside of us.
David: Yes, the counselor-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... the helper, the advocate, helping us understand how to be the people of God in infinitely complex situations, that the 613 laws of the Old Testament could've never-
Seth: That's right
David: ... adapted enough to, to help us-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... navigate.
Seth: I think I've used this example before, but it's like-... my, my daughter is only 10, right?
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So I- she has a lot of rules. You can't watch TV past a certain time, you go to bed at 8:00, you, uh, clean up your dishes when you're done, and those are rules. They're laws in our house.
David: Right.
Seth: But my hope for her as an adult isn't that she goes to bed at 8:00.
David: Right.
Seth: It's not that she cleans up her dishes at a certain time.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: It's that she would become the type of person who knows how to take care of herself-
David: And her home
Seth: ... and her home.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And so the laws of God are a, a tutor-
David: Which is what Paul calls them
Seth: ... and now the Holy Spirit is turning us into the type of people that intuit what it means to be the people of God all around the world in all the situations that we're in.
David: Yes.
Seth: I think that's kind of, like, what it means to have the law of God written on our hearts.
David: Yes.
Seth: That we have this constantly- constant spirit that helps us be God's people-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... in the world, no matter the circumstances, and even if the Bible doesn't address that situation directly-
David: Right
Seth: ... which is so many of our situations in life.
David: So helpful. I love that picture. Can I add one more very nerdy way to describe the, the-
Seth: Yes
David: ... the heart of flesh? [chuckles]
Seth: From the parental to the nerdy, I love it.
David: Yeah, let's go really practical to the really, really intense. But, um, so you have this, you know, I, I'll... It's the posse peccare, posse non peccare-
Seth: Okay
David: ... idea, and so in, in creation, Adam and Eve were, uh, able not to sin.
Seth: They had the choice to obey God's commands if they wanted to.
David: That's right, but after the fall, we, we, we, we, we, we had hard hearts, and so we-
Seth: That diamond pen wrote into our stony hearts sin.
David: That's right. We had a stony heart, and the only thing that you could write on it was sin, and so we were not able not to sin. [chuckles]
Seth: Okay.
David: And so all we... Which is another way of saying we-
Seth: That's right
David: ... all we could do was sin.
Seth: Yep.
David: And, uh, you know, there was always something mixed into the action that made it broken, that made it-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... fallen or twisted. It's why you don't really have perfect people.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: You know, um, and not, not... Anyway, uh, and so after Jesus, and He comes and He gives us a new heart, we enter back into that edenic state-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... where we are able to sin still, just like Adam and Eve were able to sin, but we are finally able not to sin again.
Seth: Yeah.
David: We're actually able to do something that's righteous again.
Seth: Yep.
David: It removes this impossibility.
Seth: Yeah.
David: As Paul would kind of talk about it, the law stands outside of us and says-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... "Do this," right? Like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and you look at the law, and you try to do it, and all it does is make you feel guilty and condemned of how you-
Seth: Right
David: ... didn't live up to it.
Seth: Yeah.
David: But then when the law is written on our hearts, God says to us, "Not, not do this, but-
Seth: Yes
David: ... I am making you this."
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: "You will become this."
Seth: Yes.
David: It turns an impossibility into an inevitability-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that the law that we cannot follow becomes a law that we cannot help but eventually follow.
Seth: Yes.
David: It's like-
Seth: That's right. That's right.
David: It's not that you'll be perfect, that you'll perfectly obey the law-
Seth: Right
David: ... it's that you will inevitably, eventually, through the sanctification of the Holy Spirit and the revelation of the glory of Jesus at the end of time-
Seth: Right
David: ... you will be conformed to the-
Seth: Right
David: ... law that's been written on your heart. It will work itself out.
Seth: That's right, which is why Jeremiah can say that part of the new covenant is the sinlessness of Judah.
David: Ex- exactly.
Seth: Because the new covenant guarantees that-
David: Yep
Seth: ... eventually.
David: Eventually.
Seth: Yes.
David: Yes. 1 John 3:2.
Seth: Wow.
David: "When we see him, we will become like him-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... because we will see him as he is." One day, we will [chuckles] actually bear out the sinlessness that Jesus has written on our hearts in blood.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, that will happen.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Covenant?
Seth: That's co- that's, that's... I mean, we talked meta, meta, meta about the idea of covenant and new covenant in Jer-
David: Brides and death.
Seth: What is a new covenant? What did Jeremiah maybe mean by that? But, like, you're gonna get... As you read Jeremiah-
David: Yep
Seth: ... you're gonna get inundated with these ideas, this tension between the inevitability of exile and divorce, but the inevitability of God's love-
David: And a new marriage
Seth: ... and restoration, and new marriage, so.
David: Two resurrected people getting married.
Seth: Yeah, [chuckles] two resurrected people getting married.
David: That's so fun.
Seth: Uh, so yeah, so that's it.
David: Okay.
Seth: That's the, that's the thing.
David: I love it, and then what's the next and last episode?
Seth: Last episode, we'll talk about is Jesus as the new Jeremiah.
David: Ooh.
Seth: So all throughout the New Testament, Jesus is depicted as a reincarnation-
David: Mm
Seth: ... of Jeremiah, a, a, a new Jeremiah on the scene, predicting new covenant, obviously-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... as we've talked about multiple times, but yes, we'll talk about that.
David: Well, that'll be awesome. Well, thank you, guys, for joining us as we've walked through the theme of covenant in Jeremiah. As Seth said, next time, we'll talk about Jesus as the new Jeremiah, and we hope you'll join us for that as well. So thank you for being with us today, and we'll see you next time. [upbeat music]
Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel creates short films, devotionals, and podcasts like this one. Everything we make is free because of generous supporters like you. To see our resources, visit spokengospel.com or subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. See you next time. [upbeat music]
