Intro: [gentle music] Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. This is our attempt to speak the gospel out of every corner of scripture. We believe every part of the Bible, Old Testament and New, is about Jesus, and this podcast is our experiment to publicly test that belief. Let's jump in. [gentle music]
David: Well, hey, everyone, welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast.
Seth: Welcome-
David: We are-
Seth: ... to the Book of Leviticus.
David: Yes, we are in the Book of Leviticus. We did an introduction episode last time.
Seth: We did.
David: And, uh, which we weren't actually expecting to do.
Seth: No, we were just... We came into the podcast studio and we're like, "Let's talk about Leviticus." And we were like, "We can't talk about Leviticus [laughs] because we don't know enough-"
David: There's-
Seth: "... about these things." [laughs]
David: There's so many different concepts that Leviticus is wrestling with, like God's presence, and holiness, and, uh, atonement, and animal sacrifice. And so if you're, like, jumping in at this one because you were like-
Seth: You should come-
David: ... "Oh, oh, I don't read book introductions. Why should I read this introdu- listen to this introduction?" Go back.
Seth: I was personally helped-
David: Yeah. [laughs] So was I
Seth: ... by, like, processing out loud because I think still the idea of animal sacrifices is counterintuitive-
David: Yep
Seth: ... to everything that I know in my entire life.
David: It's not a super 21st century idea.
Seth: No, it's not.
David: [laughs]
Seth: And even, like, some of the things we talked about, I think particularly the idea that we're not buying our way into God's presence-
David: Right
Seth: ... with the blood of an animal.
David: Yep.
Seth: That's still, like, even though we talked about it for, like, 20 minutes-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... last time, I was still, as I was rereading Leviticus this morning and last night, kept thinking like, "Wow, man, God requires so much from me to be in His presence."
David: Yeah.
Seth: But that's not what's happening. The story of the entire Bible up to this point is that God's presence, God wants to be with His people.
David: Right.
Seth: And God is already with His people, and we need to make ourselves like God in order to remain with God.
David: Right.
Seth: That's what's happening.
David: Yep.
Seth: That's what's happening, and I think one of the things we didn't talk about last time, which is helpful here, we're about to go through all these five different types of sacrifices, or four sacri-
David: Five.
Seth: Five.
David: I think, yeah.
Seth: Five. And you have God's presence-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... in the Holy of Holies, where the Ark of the Covenant is, and those angel things, and-
David: The cherubim.
Seth: The cherubims.
David: Not angels.
Seth: Not angels.
David: Definitely not angels.
Seth: With, y- the face-melting power-
David: [laughs]
Seth: ... is right there in the middle. [laughs]
David: The face-melting power is at-
Seth: That's, God's presence is in the middle
David: ... that's your translation of Shekhinah.
Seth: That's, that's exactly right.
David: Okay.
Seth: And then the idea is, like, there's concentric circles of holiness-
David: Right
Seth: ... around that place, and then you have the outer courts of the temple, which is still holy, but somehow less holy at the same time.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And even the entire nation of Israel-
David: Yep
Seth: ... is still-
David: Still holy, but less holy
Seth: ... and when we say holy, it's part, it, God's presence resides there.
David: Yes.
Seth: God's presence is there. So when you commit a sin, when you do something wrong, when you disobey in God's presence, it makes you, uh, at odds with God.
David: That's right.
Seth: You become darkness in a world of light.
David: That's right.
Seth: And eventually, darkness is always overcome by light.
David: Yep.
Seth: If you've ever turned on a light switch, that's what happens.
David: All the darkness goes away.
Seth: All the darkness goes away.
David: That's right.
Seth: So as you commit sin, do wrong in a world of light, you will be devoured by it.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And we talked about that at length in the last episode.
David: Right. Yes, we did.
Seth: So-
David: So go back, listen to those things.
Seth: Right.
David: Uh, they provide a really helpful context, and I think you've done a good job summarizing them here. Um, and so we're gonna jump in, um, and, and the Book of Leviticus starts off with this phrase, like, "God called to Moses," which, like, is-
Seth: Yeah, it's repeated over and over and over again.
David: Over and over and over again.
Seth: Every time a new sacrifice is introduced, every time there's, like, a break in the text, then, "The Lord called to Moses."
David: Right.
Seth: "The Lord called to Moses."
David: Yep.
Seth: "The Lord called to Moses."
David: And apparently, this word call is actually, um, a little more intense than said or spoke. It, it's, it's a much more selective term, used far less often.
Seth: Than-
David: Like, and so the point of that is because, like we talked about in the introduction, um, Leviticus stands at the pinnacle of the Torah. It's the, it's the high point of the Torah, uh, because in, in-
Seth: It's how we live in God's presence.
David: That's how we live in God's presence. It's like, it's, it's the crescendo of the Torah. How do we get into God's presence? And so God spoke to Moses, God said to Moses, but here God calls to Moses, and it's almost this also beckoning, that God is saying-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... "Come in."
Seth: Come back to the garden with me.
David: Exactly.
Seth: Okay.
David: Come back in with me. And so, um, so-
Seth: So one thing we should say here-
David: Yep
Seth: ... then, so God is calling us, Moses, back into the garden. But literarily, like-
David: Oh, yes
Seth: ... as a story, these first several sacrifices aren't an exhaustive list of all the sacrifices that could be made.
David: Right.
Seth: I think Sailhamer just says you should think about it like a genealogy in Genesis or the beginning of 1 Chronicles. It's a list of the major characters that you need to be familiar with-
David: That's right
Seth: ... when you get into the Book of Leviticus.
David: Yes.
Seth: Burn offerings, guilt offerings, sin offerings are all gonna play a role, particularly when the temple is dedicated and God's presence falls for the first time.
David: Uh-huh.
Seth: So when you get to chapter 8, it's gonna talk about God's presence falling, and it will use shorthand for all these things. The bull of the sin offering.
David: Yep.
Seth: Like, oh, I read about that.
David: I know what that is.
Seth: I read that in the first chapter-
David: Right
Seth: ... of Leviticus.
David: Exactly.
Seth: So-
David: Yeah, and Wenham, Gordon Wenham, in his commentary, talks about how, um, these are structured in such a way that, uh, it, it might, it might just be built in such a way that, like, for memorization. Like the, like-
Seth: Right
David: ... the new priest is being indoctrinated and brought in, uh-
Seth: Indoctrinated. [laughs]
David: Indoctrinated. It has such negative connotations.
Seth: It does.
David: But it's just being taught-
Seth: It's being taught
David: ... the doctrines.
Seth: Catechized?
David: Yeah, catechized.
Seth: Um, I-
David: Is that the, is that the nice version of indoctrinate? [laughs]
Seth: It's the Christian version. [laughs]
David: Taught. Taught. [laughs] As a new priest is being taught everything, it's like, uh, you have, okay, here, so the first three are grouped together. The, they are, they're, like, food based that bring a pleasing aroma to the Lord.
Seth: Right.
David: Right? And then there's, then there's ones that deal with silt and s- sin. Silt?
Seth: Silt?
David: Sin and guilt is what I was trying-
Seth: Son of guilt, yeah
David: ... to put together there.
Seth: And pe- there's peace offerings.
David: That's right.
Seth: And the sin offerings, particularly in the first half, are all unintentional sins.
David: Uh-huh. Yeah, we'll get to all that.
Seth: Yeah, yeah.
David: Yeah. And so anyway, and so basically, I like the idea of, like, a cast of characters.
Seth: Right.
David: So you gotta get familiar with these, these first sacrifices, these first five. And so, um, what I wanna say before we go into-
Seth: So that's what we're doing today. We're like, we wanna give you a sketch-
David: Yep
Seth: ... of the characters-
David: Exactly
Seth: ... so that when you read the bet- rest of the Book of Leviticus-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... you're not totally lost.
David: That's right. But we need to remember is I think a lot of people, when they think of Leviticus, they think of it as a list of laws, like a list of rules-
Seth: Right
David: ... a list of ordinances. And while it has those things in it, it is still a narrative.Um, it's a narrative text. "God came to Moses and said, and then Moses said, and then these things happened." So it's a narrative, and it's fitting into the wider narrative, and we always need to keep that in mind, that God has brought his people out. He's bringing them into a new Garden of Eden, which is exampled in this tabernacle, and now he's saying, "I wanna live with you. Here's how."
Seth: Right.
David: And so I just want us to always remember, we're in the middle of a story.
Seth: Yes.
David: And it's a beautiful story of how to live with God. And so-
Seth: And one of those-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... patterns of the story that we've seen, and we talked about this in the Ex- in Exodus podcast somewhere, and-
David: Somewhere in that
Seth: ... just go listen to all of those.
David: Yeah.
Seth: You just gotta rate us on iTunes. [laughs]
David: [laughs] At Liberty Park.
Seth: Uh, um, normally what ends up happening is that there will be a narrative, and then there will be some type of sin or conflict, and the response to the people's sin is a list of laws-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... to correct the sin that just happened.
David: Right.
Seth: So we saw this when Israel worshiped the golden calf. As soon as that happened, there was a list of laws-
David: Right
Seth: ... to help them not make that same sin again. So the Book of Exodus ends, Moses in- unable to go into the temple, and now there's a list of laws to help him not make the same mistakes as he did before.
David: Exactly right.
Seth: So that pattern repeats itself throughout the Pentateuch, and we're in the-
David: Oh, yeah
Seth: ... middle of a long section of it.
David: Yep.
Seth: Like, how do we get to be in God's presence? If we can't be in it now, how do we get in it?
David: Yep. And so, uh, we, we jump in, and there's, just right out of the gate, the first four verses of Leviticus are just, like, packed full of stuff. And so we, we meet, the first offering we meet is the burnt offering, which is... I, I like whole offering better.
Seth: Okay.
David: And that's W-H-O-L-E, the whole thing.
Seth: Just not- [laughs]
David: Not a, not a little like-
Seth: Have you heard that, like, philosophical question, like what is a whole?
David: Oh, yes.
Seth: [laughs] It's like, what is a-
David: That's the worst.
Seth: [laughs] Is it-
David: Philosophers
Seth: ... nothing? But if it's nothing, that's-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... boundless. It has no-
David: Yeah, but a whole has properties and constraints.
Seth: Right, like-
David: And it is something.
Seth: It is something.
David: But it's also the absence of something.
Seth: But it's nothing.
David: It's nothing. [laughs] So stupid.
Seth: [laughs]
David: Uh, anyway, not that kind of whole, but a-
Seth: How would you even offer a whole?
David: [laughs] In ter- in ter-
Seth: [laughs]
David: Stop it. In terms of the entirety, so what we're talking about here, the burnt offering is an offering in which, um, the entire animal, a young bull, a lamb, a goat, um, would be brought from a person's herd, um, a- and would be put on... It would be killed by the altar. Its blood would be drained out, and then the whole animal, just in, i- it'd be, like, kind of like severed up, chopped up a little bit, placed in pieces on the altar outside the tabernacle where there was this fire burning, and the whole thing would burn up. And the smoke would rise, and actually the word burnt in Hebrew is, um, is closer to the word of, or word ascending. So even the very-
Seth: Right
David: ... word in it is this whole idea of, like, this smoke going up to God offering.
Seth: So what is an offering versus a sacrifice?
David: Yes.
Seth: So we've, we talked a lot about sacrifice the last episode. We didn't talk anything about offerings, and this is described as an offering.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And it doesn't even mention why you'd be offering it.
David: It does not. We get no, we get no prescriptions for when, why. H- like, we only get the how.
Seth: Right.
David: Uh, Wenham, Wenham-
Seth: It just is a food offering. [laughs]
David: ... Wenham explains it like it's a prayer book where all the prayers got taken out, and all you have left are the rubrics. [laughs]
Seth: Like, what does he mean by that? Like-
David: Like, like the, so sit down, and then say, and then there's nothing. [laughs]
Seth: [laughs]
David: Like, it's like all the prayers are taken out. And so it, this is literally just the, the rule book of how to do it, not why, 'cause the whys come later in Leviticus, and then we see them-
Seth: Okay
David: ... all throughout the Old Testament. You know, so we get our-
Seth: So if-
David: ... situations for these, these-
Seth: Right
David: ... w- as we read the Bible.
Seth: More than likely, a person reading this for the first time would've been familiar with the burnt offering.
David: Oh, definitely.
Seth: So they know what they're reading.
David: Exactly right.
Seth: So what, is this for sin? Is this thank you to God? Like, why would I... If I was a Hebrew reading these rules, like, "Oh, this is so clarifying for me because other- otherwise, I would've offered an offering this way." So, like, what do they think they're accomplishing by offering a whole offering?
David: Yeah, so there's a l- there's, and, and, and with all of these we should say, there's a lot of debate around all of them because there isn't a straightforward answer.
Seth: Right.
David: So we have to just give our opinions.
Seth: A lot of these will talk about atonement, but this one doesn't.
David: No, it does.
Seth: It does? Oh.
David: Right at the top. Yeah, the whole thing-
Seth: Oh, yeah
David: ... is about atonement.
Seth: Oh, I kept looking for it, 'cause I was like, "I'm pretty sure."
David: It's right at, it's the heading.
Seth: I'm sure I read it.
David: It's the, the first reason we're given for these offerings is atonement.
Seth: That's right.
David: And so, like, the, the-
Seth: Oh, yeah, there it is, verse four
David: ... which, which should shape the whole book of Leviticus for us. Like, right at the top, it's-
Seth: And we-
David: ... it's why are we here? Atonement. What do we do? Burn offering. And then we just keep going, and then we meet back with atonement once we get to the sin offerings again.
Seth: And atonement, I mean, we talked about at-one-ment.
David: Right. [laughs]
Seth: But what we really mean is, like, we're being made like God.
David: Yes.
Seth: If we're darkness, we're being made like light.
David: Yep.
Seth: If we have death in us, we're being made like life.
David: Yes.
Seth: Like, we are being made into the image of God through these sacrifices in some way.
David: Yeah, but this word kipper, you know, [laughs] which is the-
Seth: Kipper?
David: ... the, yeah, atonement in Hebrew, the, the horrible-
Seth: Kipper
David: ... redneck. Kipper.
Seth: [laughs]
David: But, uh, the, uh, it also has this idea of propitiation. You know, it also is propitiatory, where it's, it's God's, God has wrath against sin, and he has graciously given us a way for that wrath to be dealt with.
Seth: Right.
David: And so atonement has, uh, like, has two meanings, two re- really clear meanings in Hebrew. One is to wipe clean, and the other is to make a ransom payment.
Seth: Mm.
David: And both of those here make a lot of sense. And so, um, uh, uh, uh, I know that a lot of commentators say it's just, it would be wrong to choose which one we're talking about, 'cause we get both.
Seth: Right.
David: Both-
Seth: 'Cause we talked about it last time. It's like we talked about how, like, if you come near the Son, by virtue of it being the Son and you-
David: Right
Seth: ... not being the Son, you just get dissolved.
David: Yes.
Seth: And that's not the Son actively punishing you, but in a sense it is.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, you can't-
David: It's, it's being consistent with who it always is.
Seth: Right. And so in the same way, when we talk about God's wrath or anger at sin, he's being consistent with all his life and powerful force.
David: Right.
Seth: He can't have nothing to do with death-
David: Right
Seth: ... and darkness.
David: Right. It's not this passive accident, though, that happens.
Seth: Right.
David: It's like God does actively punish sin, so we don't need to be afraid of God's active wrath.
Seth: Right.
David: But it's not something that we meet here necessarily in Leviticus. Actually, uh, you know, I guess we do later on when we get to Aaron's sons.
Seth: Right.
David: We meet God's active wrath-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... uh, whenever people die. Um, and we've met it in Genesis, and we've met it in Exodus, and we'll meet it a lot in Numbers.
Seth: Yeah.
David: A lot when it's what does it look like to live with God in the wilderness. It's, it gets messy.
Seth: So the point, then, of the sacrifice-
David: Yes, right... is it makes propitiation. And so, like, um, if you look at s- it makes-
Seth: It-
David: It makes atonement. It, it appe- it, like, it, it makes a way for sinful people to live at peace with God.
Seth: Okay.
David: And so, like, if we looked at the, at the rest of the Old Testament, whenever burnt offerings are made, um, David, um, he brings a burnt offering whenever there's a plague, uh, against Israel, and when David offers it in 2 Samuel 24:25, the, the, the plague stops after David offers the, the burnt offering. Uh, we're told in Job 1:5 that Job offered burnt offerings every week for each of his seven sons, and here's the reason he gave. He said that, "It may be that one of my sons may have sinned." [laughs] And so he gave these-
Seth: Hmm
David: ... just burnt offerings every week for every one of his seven sons, just in case they sinned. So he's making atonement for them every week. Uh, and then after Job's whole ordeal was over with his friends, uh, you know, they were saying a bunch of terrible things, Job [laughs] says that they should all go offer burnt offerings for themselves so that God wouldn't deal with them according to their folly, which is in Job 42:8, which I think is really funny.
Seth: So-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... the purpose of the sacrifices is to make, to make a way for people to live in God's presence.
David: Yes. That-
Seth: Most broadly
David: ... that, that, for this offering, I think.
Seth: The, okay.
David: Yeah, for the burnt offering. And there's, and there's some other reasons we're, we'll be given later that people would give them. There's, so there's kind of two things happening with the burnt offering. One, atonement, that, that the, the wages of sin is death, as Romans would say, right? And we see that when, like, our sin requires death. It might not be for a specific sin. It's more for general sin.
Seth: Right.
David: General sin. Uh, uh, you say that and you, you salute.
Seth: You salute somebody. Okay.
David: Yeah, general sin. And you, you, you offer that up on the burnt offering, and you're saying, "This should have happened to me under God's wrath, but instead it's happened to this animal." And it's this visceral, emotional experience that you have whenever you say, like, "This should have been my life, but instead it's this animal's life." That's one thing that's happening.
Seth: Okay.
David: The other thing that's happening in the whole offering, in a burnt offering, is that you're saying, like, "I'm, I'm d- I'm at great cost to myself pledging my allegiance to God."
Seth: Right.
David: It's an act of faith because you are taking, in this economy, imagine this m- this, um, migrating-
Seth: This precious, precious animal
David: ... yeah, this migrating-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... um, poor, formerly slave nation that are in the middle of the wilderness, moving from one country to another. Like, they're tending these animals every day to keep them alive and get them fat enough to be able to eat or provide milk or whatever.
Seth: Right.
David: And then to take that whole thing, put it on the altar, and not even get, uh, you know, uh, one steak out of it-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... you know? [laughs] Like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... is so costly. It's the most expensive thing they could have done. A- and they're saying, like, "I love Yahweh, and I'm, I'm, I'm putting all my faith in him. Here it is."
Seth: The, uh, the only other category I have for offering is tithe and offering.
David: Oh, gosh.
Seth: That's the only other t- I've e-
David: Gotcha
Seth: ... ever heard that word-
David: Right
Seth: ... is tithe and offering.
David: Right.
Seth: And so I think of tithe, what's required.
David: Oh, okay.
Seth: The 10%.
David: Right.
Seth: You know?
David: Yep.
Seth: And then the offering is, like, what I feel like giving on top of that because I'm especially in love-
David: Right
Seth: ... with the Lord or wanna show my dedication.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So in, sometimes in my mind, I think of sacrifice as what's required-
David: I see
Seth: ... and an offering as l- special sauce-
David: Right
Seth: ... that I add. [laughs]
David: Special sauce. [laughs]
Seth: That I want. [laughs]
David: No, we'll meet the special sauce later in the free will offering.
Seth: Okay.
David: But f- uh, we don't need to conflate, uh, or we should more likely conflate sacrifice and offering in the way you're talking about them. We don't need to separate them. We can bring them together. There's not really a huge difference between offering and sacrifice-
Seth: Okay
David: ... here. And so that might be more of an imposed categorical difference.
Seth: Right. Well, that's the first thing I thought. I was like, so an offering, is this just something that we wanna do just in case or just because we love God? But-
David: So sometimes.
Seth: But you're saying primarily what's happening is that we recognize that we are in God's presence, and we have violated one of his rules in some way, and y- we want to be made right with God, and we recognize that happens through a whole sacrifice, a whole offering.
David: Yes, sometimes.
Seth: Sometimes.
David: Other times, it happens because you're, you had a child, and you want to dedicate them. Other times, it could be for ritual cleansing. Other times, it could be because you wanna offer an offering of thanksgiving. So like-
Seth: So what's happening here-
David: The, the category of burnt offering is, like, one way to prepare an offering that communicates one certain type of thing. It's not like, "Okay, this one thing happened, therefore I go make a burnt offering." It, it-
Seth: What's helping me here-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... is I, 'cause I keep getting confused, like, well, what is a burnt offering then? I keep forgetting. This is a category.
David: Category. It's a ca- yeah, it's a category.
Seth: It's a category.
David: Yeah.
Seth: It's a, a type of character-
David: Yes
Seth: ... that you'll meet later on in Leviticus.
David: That's right.
Seth: And it has a bunch of different functions.
David: Right.
Seth: It does a bunch of different things.
David: These, these aren't things that you go, like, "Okay, so I did X, therefore I have to do a burnt offering instead of a grain offering."
Seth: Right.
David: No, no, no, no. These are, there's five different types of offerings that are prepared in different ways and communicate different things. W- how you use them and when you use them, the circumstances in which you use them vary widely, and you might do two or three offerings for one action, or you could choose between one of the two.
Seth: Interesting. Okay.
David: And so it, yeah, it's a little less prescriptive.
Seth: We should do a Venn diagram. [laughs]
David: A Venn di- [laughs] It would be a very messy Venn diagram.
Seth: [laughs]
David: Um, yes, I'm sure many people would benefit from that. Um, okay.
Seth: So the burnt offering then-
David: The burnt offering
Seth: ... is an entirely burned up animal.
David: En- yep, entirely burnt up. Y- the-
Seth: And not even the priests will eat from it.
David: No one eats from it.
Seth: Nobody eats from it.
David: That's right, not even the priests. That's right.
Seth: It's entirely consumed.
David: And no one gets anything from it, like, not the skin, n- like, nothing. Like-
Seth: We're told it's a pleasing aro- aroma to the Lord.
David: Yes. That one, that's hard for me f- for some reason, uh, because just, I think because of when, when you, when I go and read, like, pagan literature, you know, from that same time period-
Seth: Right
David: ... and you hear of these gods-
Seth: How often do you read pagan literature from 3,000-
David: I mean, more than I should
Seth: ... 6,000- [laughs]
David: How long ago was that? [laughs]
Seth: More than I sh- [laughs]
David: How long... Don't, I don't wanna answer that question. [laughs] I plead the Fifth on that one. Um, no, but, uh, you, you see these gods, uh, the, the, the aroma of sacrifices filling their nostrils, and it's very visceral, and it's very, um, uh, barbaric. And we've talked about this already on the podcast before, but the gods smelled the foodUm, with this insatiable hunger, and they were like, "Oh, dinner's ready."
Seth: Right.
David: And they feasted. That's-
Seth: Sacrifices-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... were a way for, uh, the gods to be fed by the people-
David: That's right
Seth: ... because they were-
David: But-
Seth: ... dependent on humans
David: ... the soothing aroma here is so categorically different from how the pagan gods smelled the sacrifices of pagan people. Instead of it being a, a, a wafting aroma, if you would, like if you, you know, you think of a cartoon character being carried-
Seth: Right, right, right
David: ... along by the smoke.
Seth: Yeah.
David: You know, and they, they, they go to a pie on a windowsill, and they're floating in the air.
Seth: Tom and Jerry.
David: Yeah, exactly.
Seth: [laughs]
David: That's kind of what you could see, like a, a, a pagan god, how you could see a pagan god smelling a pagan sacrifice. Here, it's a soothing aroma, and the first time we come upon this is after the flood, and so God is so angry with the world that he floods the world, right? He's, this is active wrath, you know?
Seth: Yeah.
David: But then, um, Moses makes a whole offering, a burnt offering. We get this offering.
Seth: This offering.
David: This offering.
Seth: Okay.
David: After the flood, he makes a burnt offering, and it goes up as what you just read, a soothing aroma to the Lord, and what happens when that hap- when, when, when that, when that aroma goes up is God says, "Never again will I flood the earth." And, and so what a soothing aroma does to God, and it doesn't do it to God. God, i- it's God allowing something to be done, is what this is. This is all this gracious gift that God is giving us to create an economy in which we can be made right. But what happens is, um, God uses these sacrifices to, not, not necessarily to change us, but to show us that he has changed, that he is going to treat sin not as it deserves, that he is going to be merciful instead of just, and, and we get to see that action take place in the animal dying, in it being burned up, in the smoke going up. We get to see the economy that, that is being transacted here with, uh, this animal dying and God deciding to be merciful instead of just.
Seth: So.
David: Soothing aroma.
Seth: Soothing aroma, and we have a New Testament counterpart to this.
David: Yes.
Seth: In 2 Corinthians, uh, 2:15.
David: Right.
Seth: It took me like five minutes to find it. [laughs]
David: Five minutes. [laughs]
Seth: But it was 2 Corinthians 2:15. Uh, "But thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumphal procession, and through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere. For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life." So this idea of being, there, uh, being a whole offering-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... that is burned up and is a pleasing aroma to L- the Lord, in the New Testament, we're told it's Jesus.
David: Right.
Seth: Jesus is, he offers up him-
David: His whole self
Seth: ... his whole self. He leaves nothing behind.
David: That's right.
Seth: He doesn't, like, preserve a part of him-
David: No
Seth: ... part of himself to, like, hold onto his humanity or his divinity.
David: Right.
Seth: He descends into hell, as the Apostles' Creed says it.
David: That's right.
Seth: He, like-
David: He die, died.
Seth: He di- like, he really died.
David: He really, really died.
Seth: And then we too-
David: Yes
Seth: ... become sacri- whole sacrifices as well.
David: That's right.
Seth: This is why, what Jesus will say over and over again, like, "If you want to find your life, you must-
David: You must lose it
Seth: ... lose it."
David: That's right.
Seth: "If you wanna save your life, you must die."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Which I thi- so, like, I don't think of myself as a whole offering.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: But that's the way the Bible will see human beings.
David: Yes.
Seth: Like, we don't do child sacrifices, but we don't do human sacrifices, but there is a whole offering. Our entire lives are given up to the Lord, because Jesus gave his entire life for us.
David: Yes. Yeah, and then we carry, as you said, the, the aroma of Christ's death with, with us everywhere we go, and when certain people smell it, they smell death, and they hate it.
Seth: Right.
David: Right? As 2 Corinthians says. And then other times they smell it, and it's sweet, and they love it.
Seth: Right.
David: And, and it's like you can, you can almost see that aroma of death in the, in the, in the camp. Imagine if a foreigner came in or something like that, and you just smell all this burning flesh and hair.
Seth: Right.
David: Ugh. You're like, "Oh, it's gross." But to someone who knows what that's doing for them in the presence of God-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... it doesn't matter how bad it smells, it's a sweet aroma to them, because they know what it accomplished. And so that's what we send out to the world-
Seth: Right
David: ... is we're like, some people are like, like, "Oh, yeah, Jesus died on a tree, uh, like, on, on a cross, and you think he rose from the dead. Like, one-"
Seth: I remember.
David: "... that sounds like a fairy tale. Two, how could that ever accomplish anything? Three, why is God angry?"
Seth: I remember.
David: And they have all these reason- reasons why it sounds terrible to them, but whenever you realize that it's salvation for you, the whole offering of Christ is a sweet aroma.
Seth: Yeah. I remember one of the first conversations, uh, uh, The Passion of the Christ. I don't know, it came out when I was in high school.
David: Oh, yeah.
Seth: And I remember, uh, talking about it with some, my non-Christian friends. Like, all my c- friends were non-Christian. I lived in Scotland. [laughs]
David: [laughs]
Seth: I didn't know anybody that was Christian. Um, and I was like, "What did you think of, think of it?" And he's like, "It just seemed pointless to me."
David: Mm.
Seth: He's like, like, "Why? It's like, it j- I just watched a, a Jew get brutalized."
David: Right.
Seth: And it was like he had no-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... it meant nothing to him.
David: Exactly. It was the aroma of, of death to him.
Seth: It was, it, it, it-
David: All he could smell was death
Seth: ... it, it meant nothing. And so this is helping me, I think, understand that, like, if Jesus Christ gave up his entire life to provide me life, to make-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... me one with God, to provide atonement for me, if his, God's love, and so we talked about the Book of Leviticus, his grace.
David: Yes.
Seth: Like, if this whole offering is an act of grace towards God, Jesus far more so is an act of grace towards us. God's love and his grace was incarnated in a sacrifice.
David: Mm.
Seth: And we too respond by incarnating the same love in sacrifice for one another.
David: Yes. Right. It's so beautiful that we get to do that.
Seth: Right.
David: You know? Um-
Seth: And it's pleasing to the Lord.
David: It's pleasing. It's a pleasing aroma to the Lord. Now, now when we go and love others and lay our lives down for someone else, we get to be that pleasing aroma to God. How amazing is that?
Seth: And I think most of the time I always consider my motives mixed in something.
David: Mm. Yeah.
Seth: And, like, I'm never really confident that what I'm doing is actually worth, like, God actually approves of.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, I, uh, Seth tried his best, but there's all this wrong motives, and, like, he kinda messed up here and here. The end result was f- fine.
David: Yeah.
Seth: But I'm always, like, measuring myself against perfection.
David: Oh, yeah.
Seth: And I'm thinking like, "Man, I'm not reallyMy whole heart is not in this. You know, like, I'm not doing this-
David: Definitely
Seth: ... perfectly.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And I think what's encouraging about this is that Jesus is our whole sacrifice, and we are declared, we are called pure and holy by God. Even if our motives are mixed, even if our actions are not totally good, God sees them as a pleasing smelling aroma.
David: Mm.
Seth: He sees them as good-
David: Right
Seth: ... in His sight. He enjoys the smell of them, even if you know they're-
David: [laughs]
Seth: ... kinda shot through with sin.
David: Right. And yeah, and that's because it's Christ working through us, and s- He's seeing His Son operate, who's already offered the perfect pleasing sacrifice, which is, yeah, why it's, uh, acceptable. Which is another thing that, like, is- is constantly talked about here, it's, i- in- in Leviticus, is that your offering might be acceptable. Like, the acceptability of the sacrifice is something that's returned to over and over and over again, and then you have to go through these certain rules and, and, and methods so that the sacrifice might be acceptable. Um, and a lot hung on that for people, because if your sacrifice wasn't accepted, um, you and God were still at odds.
Seth: Right.
David: And so the acceptability of a sacrifice is a big deal. So just be looking for that as you read Leviticus, I would say, you know. Um, okay, before we move on from burnt offering, um, I just wanna kind of paint a quick picture of what might be happening. Um, and you can kinda pull from the rest of the Old Testament, um, because I feel like we can read this, it can feel really wooden.
Seth: Right.
David: But we know that this is a very emotional experience, and I've talked about that a little bit with how costly it is to bring this one-year-old male perfect lamb from your herd. The male's the most-
Seth: Right
David: ... expensive, valuable, right? If it ha- if it's without blemish, it's going to create the best progeny, the best offspring-
Seth: Right
David: ... after it. Uh, and then in an economy of scarcity, especially when it comes to meat and milk and f- and wool-
Seth: Right
David: ... and things like that, like, killing an animal is the worst business decision you can make.
Seth: Right.
David: And so, like, for us, where you can go to McDonald's and get a burger for a buck, it's like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... we don't understand how rare and precious meat is, but to them, this is the most intimate sacrifice they could possibly make. So you, you imagine taking this lamb from your herd that you have raised, you know, you know the cost, you know that-
Seth: Right
David: ... this is expensive, bring it up, and then, then they're told to lay their hands on the animal.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And, and that word lay, i- i- it, like, also means, like, lean, like, to press into. Like, a- and so it's this idea, a couple things are being communicated there. One is ownership. "This is my lamb from my flock."
Seth: Right, right, right. Right, right, right.
David: The other is tran-
Seth: David's hitting his hand.
David: I am, I am. [laughs]
Seth: He's like, "It's mine. It's mine."
David: "It's mine."
Seth: "Mine." [laughs]
David: The other is transference, which we'll learn over and over again in Leviticus, uh, and in Numbers it happens again, that people lay their hands on, and the guilt of sin is passed through-
Seth: Right
David: ... to other people. We'll see it-
Seth: We talked about this l-
David: ... really clearly at the beginning of Numbers
Seth: ... last week too, how, like, life for life, blood for blood.
David: That's right. Yep.
Seth: And there's a sense that our death is being passed-
David: Yep
Seth: ... to this animal.
David: Yes.
Seth: And the, the life blood-
David: Right
Seth: ... the b- blood that signifies life is being passed to us.
David: Right.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so you just imagine-
Seth: Right
David: ... like, putting your hands in the wool of a lamb-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and being like, "Okay, buddy."
Seth: [laughs]
David: "M- I'm sorry."
Seth: Right.
David: "This, my sin's yours now. Here's the penalty for it."
Seth: And I'll be a big feet. Uh, like, I, I automatically tell, like, well, this, it's not a mystical experience. Like, it's not like when you put your hands-
David: Oh, no
Seth: ... it's like-
David: It's very raw
Seth: ... it's like, it's not, "Ooh, this feels, like, I feel something. I feel something." [laughs]
David: "The, the sin's draining out of me. I can feel it."
Seth: It w- it was, it was symbolic. It would've felt like-
David: It was symbolic
Seth: ... it would, like, you're placing your hands on the table. It's like, this doesn't feel like it's doing anything.
David: Yep.
Seth: That's not the point.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Because what you're do- like, you putting your hands on it-
David: Yep
Seth: ... isn't magical.
David: Right.
Seth: It's the g-
David: But some, some things would happen-
Seth: Right
David: ... that would help that.
Seth: Right.
David: So, like, one, you would, you would probably end up talking to the priest about why you're offering this. "I'm here with this lamb because dot, dot, dot."
Seth: Right.
David: Right? So you would be talking, you'd confess a sin. You'd, you'd tell him that, uh, you had a new son that was born, whatever. And then often what would happen is you probably would sing a hymn, because all over the Psalms, the burnt offering is mentioned constantly. So especially Psalms 40, 51, and 66, they talk about the burnt offering, and most people think, and we see them sung in other history books in the Old Testament, people think you would come, you would lay your hands on, you would confess your sin or whatever, and then you would sing a hymn. You would-
Seth: Hmm
David: ... and you would imagine holding a lamb-
Seth: So would you j- would it s-
David: ... and singing a hymn
Seth: ... would it just be you and the priest hanging out?
David: Yep, yep.
Seth: Or would it be, like, your whole family?
David: Your whole family could be there, depending on how close you were to the tent, right? Because-
Seth: Oh, right, right, because-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... only w- men could be in there, of course.
David: That's right. So it was probably just the man, his lamb, and the priest in front of this altar, and he would sing over it, and then the man, after s- leaning on the lamb-
Seth: I can imagine bringing my son to that.
David: I know.
Seth: Like, you know, if, like, I'm, like-
David: Yeah, once they were of age.
Seth: Like, once they were of age, like, "Okay, sons, we're gonna go offer the sacrifice."
David: Yeah.
Seth: "And me, like, being as a dad, like, this is how we worship the Lord together."
David: Oh, could you imagine? Yeah.
Seth: Right, okay.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Interesting. I've, I've, I've-
David: The picture that-
Seth: Right
David: ... that would paint, though, for your kids.
Seth: Yeah, yeah.
David: Yeah. Anyway, and so you lean on the lamb, you confess your sin, you sing a hymn of thanksgiving, uh, um, to God, and then you pick up a knife, and you yourself as the worshiper actually kill the animal and drain its blood, and then you chop it up, lay it on the fire, and then your work's finally done. [laughs] Like, but as the worshiper, you're doing all this work. And so I just wanted to, like, paint this picture. Every time you're read- as you're reading through all these sacrifices when you read Leviticus, like, this was an emotional thing that happened. And so, um, I just think it's important to kind of get out of the wooden-ness-
Seth: Right
David: ... of how Leviticus sounds.
Seth: And if you're from a more traditional church background-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... like a lot of Lutheran services-
David: Yep
Seth: ... like, they'll have a similar order of service.
David: Right.
Seth: Like, you come into the presence, there's a call of, to worship.
David: Yes.
Seth: There's a confession of sin.
David: Yep.
Seth: There's-
David: You'll sing a hymn of lament or something
Seth: ... you'll sing a hymn, and then you'll have an assurance of pardon.
David: That's right.
Seth: So, like, they're repeating, like, those, those exist in more liturgical services because they're following the Book of Leviticus.
David: Right.
Seth: They're like, "These are biblical patterns for how-
David: Yes
Seth: ... to worship the Lord, and we wanna put those into action in our-
David: Right
Seth: ... church services." Yeah.
David: Right. So that, that's kind of, there's a lot, there's a lot more we could talk about with burnt offerings, but we'll move on to grain offerings. [upbeat music]Okay, so-
Seth: My favorite offering
David: ... your favorite, oh, 'cause you're a baker.
Seth: Because I'm a baker.
David: Yes.
Seth: So all the people are coming with their baked goods.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Anyway.
David: I figured you would like this one.
Seth: [laughs] I'm ex- I'm excited.
David: So th- uh, this is a grain offering, no animals involved. Uh, you bring some fine flour, and you can prepare it in three different ways, right?
Seth: Yeah.
David: You can-
Seth: Yep, yep, yep
David: ... bake it.
Seth: You can bring it raw with some frankincense inside of it.
David: Oh, right.
Seth: You can sprinkle, sprinkle some on there.
David: Just some dough.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yeah, just, or, or just some flour. "Here's flour."
Seth: Yeah.
David: But you can prepare it in three ways is what I mean.
Seth: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: You can cook it, so you can bake it, right?
Seth: Yeah.
David: So like the baker, but then you can kind of like sear it in a pan, or you can pan fry it.
Seth: Or you can roast it. Verse 14: "If you offer a grain offering of first fruits to the Lord, you shall offer it for the grain offering for your first fruits of the year, ears roasted with fire, crushed new grain." So roasted, like roasted-
David: Roasted corn
Seth: ... roasted barley, roasted, uh, oats. Like, like, like-
David: Like the fair.
Seth: Like the fa- what?
David: Roasted corn at the fair.
Seth: Oh, yes.
David: [laughs]
Seth: I thought about that. I was like, I was like, "Man, this would have been like a barbecue. This would-"
David: Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: "... have been great." Like, I, yeah, anyway. I got, I'm getting excited because like-
David: 'Cause it's bread
Seth: ... roasting brings out all these great flavor nuances. [laughs]
David: [laughs]
Seth: Flower and corn, anyway.
David: And so this one, again, we, we're not told when you bring this, why you bring this. We'll meet all that later. We're meeting a cast of characters here, so here we're meeting... This is a grain offering, and you-
Seth: Right
David: ... bring your grain. Um, you know, one, one big thing is gonna be first fruits. So like this, these are often offered in harvest season whenever-
Seth: And first fruits literally mean like, "I have a large crop, and I'm gonna-"
David: Or I have any crop
Seth: ... I have any crop, and before I eat of it for my family-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... I'm gonna take the first part, I'm gonna give it to the Lord.
David: Right.
Seth: It's like-
David: But there's also, um, it's also how grain grows is, um, certain parts of your field w- will produce first.
Seth: Oh, okay.
David: And you'll see it, and you'll go, "[gasps] My grain's gonna be productive this year," right?
Seth: Right.
David: And so you'll go over to it, and you'll be like, "This is a symbol that the rest of the field is also going to grow and produce fruit."
Seth: Oh.
David: But you grab that, and you take that to the Lord, and you say, "Thank you, Lord. You made my crops grow this year. Here-"
Seth: Right
David: ... "is my offering."
Seth: Right.
David: And you take the first thing that popped up, the first-
Seth: Right
David: ... fruits that popped up, you take that to God, and you say, "Thank you." And so, um-
Seth: And it's an act of faith, too. It's like-
David: It's definitely an act of faith
Seth: ... it's like, it's like I trusted that you brought the first fruits-
David: Yep
Seth: ... so I will trust that you'll bring the rest as well.
David: It's the... Oh, I just thought of this.
Seth: What?
David: It's the opposite of the manna from Exodus. So when the manna-
Seth: Okay
David: ... came down from heaven, everyone was taking as much as they could and hiding it and like-
Seth: Right
David: ... trying to keep it left over-
Seth: Right
David: ... and God would send worms to make it fester-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and, and die out. They weren't trusting. Now, the first fruits is taking the grain and saying, "Okay, God, you take it. I trust you," instead of, "Me hoard it. I don't trust you."
Seth: Yeah.
David: It's like the opposite of the manna thing. That's cool.
Seth: That's fascinating.
David: Anyway.
Seth: And over and over again in the New Testament, Jesus is described as the first fruits.
David: The first fruits from the grave, the first-
Seth: Fruits
David: ... fruits, the firstborn of-
Seth: Of all-
David: ... the Son of God, of all creation
Seth: ... all creation.
David: Yep.
Seth: And the w- the reason that's significant is because in the same way that this offering was a symbol that God was faithful with the first part, he'll be faithful with the rest.
David: That's exactly right.
Seth: Jesus is the same thing. Jesus, God is faithful to us in Jesus, and he's faithful to us in Jesus to raise him from the dead.
David: That's right.
Seth: How much more so will he raise everybody else from the dead-
David: That's right
Seth: ... if you trust in him.
David: If the first little crop of Jesus rose from the dead, the rest will surely come.
Seth: Yes.
David: He's the first fruits from the grave. Okay, um, so this, this, um, this grain offering is, i- it's often used, this term, the, the, the Hebrew term i- is often used to mean a tribute, uh, paid to like a vassal or a king, like an overlord.
Seth: "I volunteer as tribute." [laughs]
David: "I volunteer as tribute." Katniss Everdeen pops onto the scene with a bowl of-
Seth: With a bowl of, a bowl of roasted grain
David: ... with a bowl of roasted grain. It's like, "No, no, no, you actually have to go and die." "Oh, never mind. I, I take it back." Um, and so i- i- it's like this tribute you would bring to a king, basically saying like, "We are your humble servants. You have been kind to us, King. Let us continue to live in your land. Here is a piece of bread I made for you."
Seth: Okay, okay, okay.
David: And it's like, "Give, continue to give us your goodness and your faithfulness and let us live in your land. We've been conquered by you. We give it to you. Uh, thank you." And that's, that's what it's...
Seth: Right.
David: And we see it, we see it in Judges, in 2 Samuel, 1 Kings, in 2 Kings. This is always shown in a political, geopolitical context-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... of like, "Thank you for being so, such a kind king to us. Here is your bread."
Seth: Right.
David: Uh, but it's really easy to see this as a, in the religious spiritual sphere here, that God has saved Israel, he's conquered them in a sense-
Seth: Right
David: ... bought them for himself, given them a law saying, "I'm gonna be your vassal king-
Seth: Right
David: ... and rule over you. Bring me my tribute." Right?
Seth: Right, right, right, right.
David: That's what you do. And as you do that, i- it's, it's an act of thanksgiving, allegiance, everything like that, and as you do that, I'll continue to be a good king and live in the land and, you know, everything like that.
Seth: Verse 13 says, "You shall season all your grain offerings with salt."
David: Salt.
Seth: "And you shall not let the salt of the covenant-"
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... "be missing."
David: Exactly.
Seth: So what's the salt of the covenant?
David: So the, again, this is the whole idea of, uh, the vassal, like the vassal and what's the-
Seth: A vassal just means a, a superior power-
David: That's right
Seth: ... and a lesser power, right?
David: Right, yeah.
Seth: Like, so if you're a vassal king, you're a superior king-
David: Right
Seth: ... or you're a lesser king.
David: No, yeah. I don't know.
Seth: I think the vassal's the weaker king-
David: Yeah, I think so
Seth: ... coming to the stronger king.
David: Oh, right. Yes.
Seth: Right, right, right, right.
David: Right, right. So anyway-
Seth: Suzerain.
David: Suzerain.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Vassal suzerain.
Seth: Yeah. Right, right.
David: That's the, that's... Oh, 'cause I know-
Seth: No one cares about this, but anyway. [laughs]
David: [laughs] Yeah, all of our b- biblical study things are popping back up in our minds.
Seth: [laughs]
David: But just say king and servant or king and, and civilian.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So you have a, uh, you have a king and a civilian, and they made a covenant with one another. "Here's my laws. This is what it takes to live in the land. You can live here, pay taxes, but I will build roads and take care of you."
Seth: Right.
David: "And my armies will fight to protect your borders. Great? Deal? Got it." So the covenant we've just read in Exodus, right? And so now we get to read, uh, we get to see here now what, what's, what do you bring to this king for making this. It's, it's you, you bring s- you put salt in all the food, and that salt is this moment in preparing the dish that you would make where you said, "Okay, God said that this salt represents the covenant," because salt preserves, you know?
Seth: Do we have, does that happen some- I don't remember that in Genesis or Exodus.
David: What?
Seth: Salt being a symbol of the covenant.
David: Oh, no, just now, just now.
Seth: This is the, so like-
David: This is the first time
Seth: ... so God's just saying to Moses, "Okay, salt-"
David: "The salt of the covenant."
Seth: "... salt."
David: "I've just given you a new symbol."
Seth: Okay.
David: But it's like, it's already, but it's, salt has that symbol already, the symbolic quality of preservation, right? And, and-
Seth: Right
David: ... and so it's like, I will-
Seth: Flavor, taste
David: ... I, and it's, well, and like faithfulness, like it's going to keep-Like, the, the covenant between us we'll keep, so put salt in the tribute you bring to me as a si- it's a very covenantal thing.
Seth: Right, and if you're talking about too, like, grain and, like, first, the grain of first fruits-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... like, the idea that this first part guarantees the next part.
David: Right.
Seth: There's this idea of keeping over the promises continuing on, uh, preserving to the next generation.
David: Right.
Seth: So salt is a symbol of those things as well.
David: Yes.
Seth: Okay.
David: Yeah. And so, um, a- and, you know, it's just, it's cool to see that in Christ that, uh, he, he's, he salts our covenant, if you will [laughs] in a sense, where we don't, and we don't have to put the salt in ourself. Instead, we get to see now that he is the right hand of God, continually making his appeal to, to, to Him. The, the, the first fruits from the grave is now at the right hand of God, continually making sure the covenant continues to us. Um, he is like our eternal salt, if you will.
Seth: Right, and, uh, in, in the Book of Mark too, uh, Mark says that we are salted with fire.
David: S- yeah.
Seth: Which is a really strange phrase.
David: I don't understand that.
Seth: But I think a lot of peop- a lot of scholars point to this as-
David: Mm
Seth: ... the interpretation of that. The idea is in the same way that the salt, like, Jesus w- salted with fire is a symbol, like, you are preserved through suffering-
David: Okay
Seth: ... essentially, and the guarantee that we will rise again-
David: Mm
Seth: ... is through Jesus being salted with fire. The symbol of the covenant is the salt and fire, and we have fire is also intrinsic to sacrifice.
David: Mm.
Seth: It gets burned up. And so this, uh, Mark is, like, conflating all these ideas of sacrifice-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... into this phrase, "salted with fire." So how are you and I saved, too? We are saved by Jesus being salted with fire, but us too being willing to be salted with fire.
David: To go through tribula- tribulation.
Seth: To go through fire, to be preserved-
David: Right
Seth: ... through suffering.
David: So you're saying, like, what he means when he says salted with fire is since God was faithful to Jesus through his persecution and death to resurrect him from the grave-
Seth: To preserve him, to keep him
David: ... to preserve him, to keep him-
Seth: Right
David: ... to be faithful to him in his covenant to him, so too you can go through any trial, any persecution, even death, and you, my salt, my promise to you will-
Seth: Right
David: ... persevere, and you will be raised from the grave.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Is that what you're saying?
Seth: Yes.
David: Okay.
Seth: Yes.
David: That's cool.
Seth: Yeah.
David: I think that's, that's, that's, that's pretty helpful here. And so anyway, I think when we think about the grain offering, we should see a king and a civilian, and the civilian bringing a thanksgiving offering to the king saying, um, "Thank you for letting me live in the land. Thank you for giving me this crop. Here is my bread for you to thank you for the covenant continuing." It's a covenantal thing.
Seth: Okay.
David: Okay. Peace offerings, right? Let's go to peace offerings.
Seth: And again, it doesn't really describe what it means.
David: Nope.
Seth: It just gives us a title and-
David: Over and over again
Seth: ... and the type of thing that you can do for a peace offering.
David: Right, yes. And so again, fellow, th- th- and, and peace offerings here, uh, also have a kind of a different name. Th- these kind of names, the way they developed, like, they just kind of became the normal way we talked about them. You know, burnt offerings-
Seth: Right. [clears throat]
David: ... grain offerings, peace offerings. But, um, you know, the peace offering, uh, there's a lot of debate, especially right now, going on about how this should be translated, and there's not a lot of consensus. But the one that I found most helpful, um, is fellowship offering.
Seth: Okay.
David: Uh, because, uh, there's something extremely distinct about this one. It breaks the, it breaks the pattern of the burnt offering because the burnt offering-
Seth: Everything's gone
David: ... everything goes up.
Seth: Right.
David: A peace offering prepares a meal for you and your family. So the peace offering here, the fellowship offering, is you, you, you go through all the same stuff. You bring the animal. You, you lay your hands on it. You kill it. Uh, you chop it up. But here instead-
Seth: Aaron throws the blood. Yeah
David: ... Aaron throws the blood. But, but, but here instead, um, only the kidneys and the fat, all the fat, uh-
Seth: Right
David: ... and, uh, the, the, the, the, like, uh, the long lobe of the liver and the intestines.
Seth: Right.
David: All that stuff is burned up.
Seth: Yep.
David: Right? But everything else, you get to have a feast, and it says, "Grab your family, get your kids, get your wife. Put a table near the tent."
Seth: Where does it say that?
David: Uh, yeah. Well, it doesn't say it right here in chapter 3, but, um, we learn, um, in, like, 7, in chapter 7:15 and 16, it says that all the meat should be eaten up the same day from this offering.
Seth: Oh, okay.
David: And then again in Deuteronomy, we see a lot of these things play out, and in Deuteronomy 12:7 it says this about the, the fellowship-
Seth: Where?
David: ... peace offering. It says, "You shall eat before the Lord your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your households, in all that you undertake in which the Lord God has blessed you."
Seth: Okay.
David: So it's like, make this offering, eat everything, right? And do it with your whole household in joy before the Lord.
Seth: But I thought we said only the men could come into the temple.
David: So i- it's not in the temple, right? Uh, it's not in the tabernacle, uh, or even in the outer courts where the, where the-
Seth: Right
David: ... um, the altar is. That would get-
Seth: At the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. It says it.
David: It says entrance of the Tent of Meeting. So it's like-
Seth: Fascinating.
David: Yeah, it's just all outside there, 'cause that would get really crowded if everyone-
Seth: Right
David: ... was coming and then trying to eat right there. It, you would just see families eating all around the tabernacle.
Seth: So why would you wanna bring your family?
David: Yeah.
Seth: Why, why would you wanna bring a grain offering and say, "Okay"-
David: No, oh, yeah.
Seth: Or sorry, a peace offering-
David: Peace offering, yep
Seth: ... with your family and say, "Okay, here's our sacrifice"-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and then have a picnic?
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, why would you wanna do that?
David: Because God comes to the table. So the whole idea here is that the reason why you eat at the tabernacle with your family is to show the fellowship you have with God. That's why it's called a fellowship or a peace offering, because, um, it's not, like-
Seth: I always assume peace or fellowship meant, like, peace and fellowship with one another. Like, "I've offended you," or, "I've hurt you," or accidentally killed one of your cows, and, like, this is a peace offering to make amends between us. But it's actually between you and God.
David: Oh, yeah. We're gonna get to how to make horizontal relationships correct when we get to the guilt offerings and the sin offerings.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, there's more reparations that are made there.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Even the guilt offering we'll get to, it's, it's better translated a reparation offering.
Seth: Okay.
David: And so anyway... Or a s- yeah, yeah, that's right. Uh, but here it's a, it's a vertical relationship, and so what we're saying is we have peace with God. But there's a difference between, like, your sins de- dealt with-
Seth: Right
David: ... and experiencing peace.
Seth: Right.
David: Right? A peace offering, whenever you actually have peace with God and you have fellowship with God, that's sitting down to a meal with God. And it's supposed to be this picture of what the whole book of Leviticus is about. It's that God has come near us.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And what a better way to do that than to, like, sit down with the sacrifice you've given to God, all the good meat from it, sit near the ta- the tent. You can see the smoke coming up.
Seth: Right.
David: You can see other families funneling in. You could even maybe even see the shining presence of God in the tabernacle.
Seth: Right.
David: And you're like, "Guys, you see this little s- spot right here on the grass that's empty? We're not gonna let anybody sit there."
Seth: Yeah.
David: That's where God sits.
Seth: Mm.
David: And it's like you just sit down with a meal with God.
Seth: So is this what would happen on, like, feast days?
David: Oh, yeah, feast days, but also just any time you could do this.
Seth: So, like-
David: Any time
Seth: ... so you could, so, and, so, like, whenever you had a good crop, you're like-
Seth: Praise God.
David: Yeah
Seth: We were productive this year.
David: Let's make a, let's make a peace offering.
Seth: Let's, let's go, let's go have a picnic.
David: Yep.
Seth: Let's go have a pic-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... like, let's-
David: But you might also do it after a particularly heinous sin or, like, a, a time of extreme impurification or uncleanliness because you would have been ostracized from the people, cut off.
Seth: Right.
David: You would feel unclean. You would feel unworthy, but then you go make your burnt offering to take care of it, to make atonement, and then it actually says, um, later on that you can actually set your fellowship offering on top of your burnt offering and cook them at the same time.
Seth: Oh. [laughs]
David: And then take your, your fellowship offering off and go have a meal, and that's when you can sit down with God-
Seth: Mm
David: ... knowing your sins are forgiven and say, "We have peace with Yahweh."
Seth: So now I'm just picturing the tabernacle, and then around it is thousands of picnic tables.
David: That's exactly how you should picture it. [laughs]
Seth: [laughs] And then, like-
David: Yes
Seth: ... people coming, and every now and again there'll be, you know, several f- any day of the week-
David: Yes
Seth: ... there's some family out there. But then on these special days, like Passover-
David: Oh, it's covered
Seth: ... or whatever else, everybody's there-
David: Everyone's there
Seth: ... doing the same thing.
David: Yes.
Seth: And every, the whole nation of Israel circled around the tabernacle on their little picnic tables, on blankets, celebrating the goodness of the Lord, eating with, with God.
David: Right, and that is the hope of the whole Bible, that we might share a meal with God.
Seth: Mm.
David: Because in Revelation, what happens? Whenever Jesus comes back-
Seth: Right
David: ... and he makes everything right, he turns the whole world into his tabernacle, what's the first thing we do when we get to heaven?
Seth: We feast.
David: We feast. The marriage supper of the lamb is here, and-
Seth: That's what Jesus says-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... at the Last Supper.
David: Right.
Seth: So it's, it's most closely tied to Passover.
David: That's correct.
Seth: But it's also, God actually sits down and has a meal with them. It's a fellowship offering in that sense.
David: That's right. Big time.
Seth: He says, "This is a new covenant in my blood," and he says, "I will not drink or eat this meal again-
David: Until
Seth: ... until the kingdom."
David: Right? And so, like, that's the whole hope of the Bible. And, like, I'm glad you mentioned the Lord's Supper because this, it is the closest parallel we have to the fellowship offering, the peace offering, is the Lord's Supper, um, because there, we actually get to eat, right?
Seth: Right.
David: That's the big difference is the, in the peace offering, you actually get to eat some of the food, and Jesus said, "I'm gonna go sacrifice my body, but here, take and eat of it."
Seth: This makes me feel like this is a better reason to pray over my dinner.
David: [laughs] Oh, okay. Yeah.
Seth: You know, like I'm, I c- I pray over dinner and breakfast and, you know-
David: Right
Seth: ... most of the time.
David: You bless it.
Seth: I ble-
David: [laughs]
Seth: And I say, "God, thank you for everything that you've given us."
David: Right.
Seth: "We recognize that everything that, on this table's from you."
David: Yes. Right.
Seth: And so I d- I do that-
David: Yep
Seth: ... pretty much every day. Uh, every day.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And I've always thought, it's like this is what I do, and I've kinda assumed, like, this is just a tradition that kind of Christians have. It's a good tradition.
David: It's a good one.
Seth: Yep. Let's, it's kinda like the Lord's Table, but it's just different. It's like we wanna, every meal, we wanna just make sure repeating to our kids and to ourselves that God gave this to us. But really, a better way to think about it is, like, every meal, every dinner, every lunch is a fellowship offering, a peace offering with the Lord.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And we're saying, "Lord, you have given us fellowship through your Son, Jesus."
David: Right.
Seth: "And so I'm sitting down with you to eat this meal."
David: Yeah, because if he actually lives in us with his Holy Spirit, we are his new tabernacles.
Seth: Right.
David: Yeah, every one meal-
Seth: And it's-
David: ... is like the fellowship offering
Seth: ... and the meals that I'm least likely to pray f- over are the ones I eat by myself.
David: Oh, yeah.
Seth: Right? Like-
David: That's right
Seth: ... 'cause whenever I'm with my family, it's like every- somebody's gotta pray.
David: Right.
Seth: 'Cause it's like, it's a thing, but when I'm by myself or just eating at somewhere, like-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... I, I, it's, I forget.
David: Right.
Seth: Because I don't think I'm fellowship-ing with anybody.
David: Right, but, but God is intimately near-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... in that moment. Yeah, that's really cool. That's really cool. So yeah, that, that should be the picture. When you hear the word fellowship offering, you should see picnic tables outside the tabernacle, and we should be hoping for this time when we get to sit down with God and have a meal. [upbeat music] Okay, so now we finally get to talk about sin. [laughs] The Bible finally-
Seth: [laughs]
David: Leviticus finally talks about sin. We've talked about it a lot-
Seth: Right
David: ... uh, because we know that there's a context for it. Uh-
Seth: Right, and atonement assumes-
David: Assumes sin
Seth: ... assumes some sort of, like-
David: Yes
Seth: ... dissonance with-
David: Right
Seth: ... the light and life of God.
David: But now we get it, and it's the sin offering. Um, but again, I'm gonna always do this, there's a better translation. [laughs]
Seth: Right.
David: Uh, and it's the purification offering.
Seth: Okay.
David: This, be- and you, and you see why when you see what is done with this offering that's different from the other three we've seen.
Seth: And we should mention now, too, that these particular sin offerings and these particular guilt offerings right now are all unintentional sins.
David: Yeah, which is a really weird thing. Uh, like, it's very strange. Like, I, I have trouble, a- and so do scholars, have trouble figuring out what is meant by an unintentional sin because it talks about, like, when someone sins unintentionally, uh, and then their gui- and then they're reminded of their guilt, or they do it-
Seth: Right
David: ... without knowing, or, like, they suddenly remember, or they, it comes to their awareness.
Seth: 'Cause then it's not just individual, it's also the whole nation.
David: The whole nation can sin unintentionally.
Seth: How? Like, it's like... [laughs]
David: The only idea that I had for, like, the whole nation sinning unintentionally-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... was, like, I don't know if this is, is, [laughs] this might be more political than it needs to be, but, like, like, the sin of racism.
Seth: Oh, yeah.
David: Like, there have been systems, structures, attitudes that nations or generations have had that have intentionally and unintentionally harmed a particular group of people.
Seth: Mm.
David: Right? Like, so a lot of that was very intentional.
Seth: Yes.
David: And for a long time it's been very intentional.
Seth: Yes.
David: There's also ways that we can perpetuate racism unintentionally by pr- right? Does that make sense?
Seth: Yes, yes. I understand.
David: And so, like-
Seth: There, there's certain things like white normativity, right, that I do as a white man in America that I'm completely unaware of that is, is built upon systems of racism.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And then whenever, uh, a, like, a, a, like, a kind Black sister comes to me and says, "Hey, when you do this-"
David: It makes me feel-
Seth: "... it makes me feel this way or perpetuates this thing," and I'm like, "I had no idea."
David: Right.
Seth: I'm aware of my guilt all of the sudden.
David: Right.
Seth: And then what do I do? I try to make reparations. I go, "Oh, I'm so sorry." [laughs] Like, "I didn't know."
David: And, and then in a personal situation-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... I, me and my wife have conversations all the time, and I'll say something-
Seth: Right
David: ... that just triggers something in her past, and, or, you know, or just-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... or I say-
Seth: It unintentionally offends her.
David: Unintentionally offends her-
Seth: Yes
David: ... or maybe it's something that I said just not thinking of how it would af- affect her.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And in that moment-
Seth: Yes
David: ... I recognize, "Oh, I shouldn't have said-"
Seth: "Oh, I shouldn't have said that."
David: Not that that even triggers anything. It's like, oh-
Seth: Right
David: ... saying, "Well, you sh-" like being blunt, overly blunt-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... can be a form of, [laughs] like, unintentionally being-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... like, sinful. So anyway.
Seth: Yes.
David: I, I was thinking of those things.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, and I think, like, the whole congregation thing might be like, um, imagine, like, you're marching. The whole congregation is marching, moving towards the promised land, and they unknowingly are walking over
David: Like, like kind of barely buried animal carcasses-
Seth: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... which make them unclean. And all of a sudden someone goes, "Guys, there's animal-
Seth: Right
David: ... carcasses we've been walking on. Though everyone's unclean."
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: You know, and they're like, "Oh, no," and they would have to do one of these things because they all unintentionally became unclean. This is put a g- a kind of contrasted by what nu- what Numbers calls a high-handed sin, right, which is whenever you know you shouldn't do something and you do it. And, uh, the example it gives in Numbers, I believe, is gathering sticks on the Sabbath. You know it's wrong.
Seth: Right, right, right, right.
David: You have to intentionally go gather sticks and do work.
Seth: Right.
David: Like, doing work on the Sabbath is a very intentional sin 'cause you have to do it very... You know it's the Sabbath.
Seth: Right.
David: No one else is doing anything. You know the rules, and you go and do it anyway.
Seth: And so I think the good news here is that I think a lot of times, if we sin unintentionally, we can be, "Oh my gosh, what have I done?"
David: Right.
Seth: Like, there can be a lot of anxiety-
David: Yep
Seth: ... like attended with that. 'Cause you know that when you do something high-handedly, like when you sleep with your secretary-
David: Right
Seth: ... you know you're doing something wrong.
David: Yes.
Seth: And you know that you should probably expect some blowback. Like-
David: Oh, definitely
Seth: ... and s- but I think a lot of times, a lot of sins are unintentional in that way.
David: Definitely. Yep.
Seth: Like, I didn't realize I should've, should've d- I, I think a l- like a lot of new Christians who are-
David: Yep
Seth: ... coming to the Bible for the first time, and they have never read the Bible before.
David: Mm.
Seth: They're living their life as they always would, and they come across and they read the Book of Matthew, and they're like, "Oh my gosh, I don't live like this at all."
David: Right. They read it-
Seth: Un-
David: Yeah, they read-
Seth: The-
David: ... the Sermon on the Mount, and they're like, "Oh my gosh." [laughs]
Seth: They're like, "I have-"
David: "I can't do any of this."
Seth: "... I have unintentionally not followed any of these laws 'cause I didn't know them."
David: Right.
Seth: Or, like, when in the-
David: Yes
Seth: ... in, uh, when Josiah finds the scroll of the Torah-
David: Oh, yes, and reads it
Seth: ... and he reads it for the first time, and he weeps because he realizes our nation has been-
David: No one's following these laws
Seth: ... and that's not, and that's not because they high-handedly did it.
David: They had no... They didn't know.
Seth: They had forgotten it.
David: That's right. Yeah.
Seth: So, and even, like, with my kids or even with myself, like, oh, I forgot that there's a, there's a, there's a text of scripture that says taking care of orphans and widows.
David: Right.
Seth: Right? And, like, our church hasn't done anything for that, or I haven't done anything about that.
David: Right.
Seth: Like, and, like, I need to fix that.
David: Yes.
Seth: So those are kind of-
David: But you're not, you're not l- you're not going, like, un- you know, it's not like, "I will not take care of orphans-
Seth: Right. [laughs]
David: ... no matter what the Bible says."
Seth: Yeah. [laughs]
David: That's a high-handed sin.
Seth: Yes. Yeah.
David: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, that's helpful. And so-
Seth: And so what happens in that moment when I do that is often, like, what's gonna happen to me? I've s- done this unintentionally.
David: Oh, right.
Seth: Oh, crap.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Oh, what should I do? Am I, am I in trouble? Have I lost, like, sight with God? Like, oh, I forgot to say sorry.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, you're like-
David: Yeah, yeah, yeah
Seth: ... will God hate me anymore? And the idea here is like, no, there's a sacrifice.
David: Yes.
Seth: You don't have to worry. Come to the t- come to the front, come to the entrance of the, come to the tabernacle.
David: Yep.
Seth: And there's a sacrifice for you.
David: Right.
Seth: There's forgiveness for you.
David: Yes.
Seth: There's a way to be atoned for. There's maybe a way to be right again. You don't need to fret and worry.
David: That is good news.
Seth: That's good news.
David: And so the first thing we see here in the sin offering or, or the purification offering is something that might feel a little odd for us. So in the purification offering, or what you'll read in your Bible most likely as a sin offering, is sin has effects on the land and the tent itself. There are lingering effects of sin that have to be cleansed, and this is gonna be talked about all throughout Leviticus. Um, and so what has to happen is the sacrifice is brought, and then with this one, what makes the purification or the sin offering different from the others is the blood isn't just splashed against the side of the altar. Instead, it's taken to very specific places and done with, like-
Seth: Right
David: ... specific things are done with it. And it depends where it's taken, and what is done with it depends on the rank of that, of the person who sinned in that society. And so if the priests sin, right, the blood has to be taken all the way into the tabernacle, all the way to the veil in front of the Holy of Holies-
Seth: Right
David: ... and sprinkled on the Holy of Holies because the offense has gone deep, right? If the whole congregation sins, something very similar has to happen.
Seth: Right.
David: But if it's just one in- one individual doing one unintentional sin, uh, uh-
Seth: Right
David: ... the priest would just dip his fingers in the bowl of blood-
Seth: And then what?
David: ... and then just, and then he would just, uh, rub it on the horns of the altar-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... which is, uh, different than the sides of the altar.
Seth: And remember-
David: It, it's higher up. It's more significant, everything like that.
Seth: It goes b- back to what you said at the top of the show when we say that, so you have the Holiest of Holies, like the, the central presence of God, and then you have these concentric-
David: Concentric. Mm-hmm
Seth: ... circles of holiness and God's presence extending out. And when somebody sins, it doesn't just stay in that one person. It actually affects the presence of God-
David: Yes
Seth: ... around them in some sense, right?
David: Right. And that might feel weird to some people, but, uh, g- Wenham, in his commentary, gave two really interesting, like-
Seth: Right
David: ... modern-day examples.
Seth: Okay.
David: So one, he said, w- you know, we, we kind of, we, we kind of think of the lingering effects of famous people. So you might go visit Elvis' house-
Seth: Right
David: ... or something, and you might j- you might be able to pick up some kind of essence of the atmosphere-
Seth: Right
David: ... the spirit that these great men or women-
Seth: Right, right, right
David: ... left behind.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: And like we understand the lingering effects of something. You know, like there's like-
Seth: I think about-
David: ... holy places in our world
Seth: ... I think about, like, um, like natural grocery stores, and that they're free from toxins.
David: Oh.
Seth: Like, this is really ba-
David: Right, right
Seth: ... like what are toxins?
David: Yeah.
Seth: And, like, there's not a ton of science necessarily behind it.
David: Right.
Seth: Sometimes there is.
David: Yep.
Seth: But there's this idea that there's something out there that can get inside of us-
David: Yep
Seth: ... or can touch the world and pollute it.
David: Yep.
Seth: Industrial farming-
David: Oh, yeah
Seth: ... pollutes the world around us.
David: Right.
Seth: Like, there's these way- we do, we have categories for pollution.
David: Yes. We do.
Seth: Industrial farms don't just affect the square footage-
David: No
Seth: ... of that particular farm-
David: Right
Seth: ... somewhere in Iowa. It actually spreads out and has tendrils in all the major cities and in-
David: Right
Seth: ... our bodies. Like, it affects everything around us.
David: Yes.
Seth: So when the priest comes and sprinkles blood all around the tabernacle, what is he doing? He's cleaning up those lingering tendrils of sin that have gone throughout-
David: That's right
Seth: ... the entire nation.
David: That's right, and that's so God has a place to live.
Seth: Right.
David: It cleans up God's house, so he can stay there, right?
Seth: This is-
David: A- and it's like, uh, uh-
Seth: And this is why the temp- the, the curtain-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... right, when the high priest, the highest sinner-
David: Oh, yeah
Seth: ... [laughs] goes and sprinkles it on the, the, uh, the, the veil, the curtain between-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... the Holiest, Holiest of Holies. That's why I was thinking about this. This is why the temple's torn in two, the-
David: Yes
Seth: ... and when Jesus dies.
David: Right.
Seth: Why? Because the Garden of Eden-
David: Yep
Seth: ... which was in the Holiest of Holies, now spreads out to the entire world.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Jesus's blood is spilt. It's thrown on-
David: Yes
Seth: The c- the curtain right in front of the Holy of Holies?
David: Yeah, and it gets to, and it gets to go to the deepest place in the tabernacle because of who he is.
Seth: Right.
David: Because he's the great high priest.
Seth: Right.
David: So he gets to go deeper than anyone's ever gone, not just to the physical symbol of the tabernacle in the actual-
Seth: Right
David: ... curtains and everything. He gets to go into the heavenly reality-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... of the Holy of Holies, into God's very temple, and sprinkle blood there-
Seth: And when-
David: ... and give us entrance there
Seth: ... and when he does that, it's so much more powerful than the blood of bulls and goats, and priests splitting it on their-
David: Right
Seth: ... to provide temporary purification.
David: That's right.
Seth: It actually splits it open, and the world becomes pure-
David: Yes
Seth: ... for all those who believe in Jesus.
David: That's right, yeah. And so, um, yeah, oh, oh, I have to mention this one thing.
Seth: Yes.
David: I just thought it was too funny. So again, when, um, the other th- the other one he, he gives is Shakespeare. Shakespeare.
Seth: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: He was like, "Shakespeare understands the lingering effects of sin." And he talked about how in Macbeth, Lady Macbeth, when, after she participates in the murder, uh-
Seth: Right
David: ... there, she is haunted by, um-
Seth: Yes, yes
David: ... a sleepwalking ghost or something. Like, right? Like, anyway, like this.
Seth: Yeah, and she says like, uh, oh, it's like, "W-" Just, oh, oh, I th- he swears. Maybe I shouldn't say. [laughs]
David: [laughs]
Seth: She, I think she's like, she's like, "I can't scrub the damn spot."
David: [laughs]
Seth: I think that's what she says.
David: Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth: Like, 'cause she's trying to scrub the bloo-
David: She can't
Seth: ... this imaginary blood out of her hands.
David: Yeah, she can't.
Seth: And she can't.
David: There's lingering effects.
Seth: Right.
David: Yeah, absolutely. And so that's, that's w- it needs to be pure. And we, and we, I think we understand that, like, the feeling of sin. It's like, y- you know you're forgiven, don't you? Well, yeah, but I still feel guilty.
Seth: Right.
David: And it's like ma- like, and you think of, like, really intimate sins.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, really hard sins.
Seth: Yeah, yeah.
David: You know? And it's like, how do I scrub the damn spot out, you know?
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, like Lady Macbeth would say. And it's like, we can't.
Seth: Not as David Boada would say.
David: Not, I would not say that.
Seth: [laughs]
David: I'm quoting.
Seth: Oh, quoting. [laughs]
David: [laughs] But how would we do that, you know? And, um, and it's really important, I think, to, to understand that when the blood of Jesus is sprinkled on our conscience, right, which is what the New Testament says, it's sprinkled on our... Our consciences are cleaned by the sprinkled blood of Christ. We can actually go, "I'm actually pure. I'm actually holy. I'm actually blameless."
Seth: And even that, like, jump from the curtain to our conscience is really helpful for me because the place of deepest intimacy or deepest pain or deepest, like, joy that I feel is inside me.
David: That's exactly right.
Seth: And in the temple structure in the ancient Israel, the Holiest of Holies, that curtain was where the hotspot-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... of divine innocence, guilt, all that happened there. So that helps me. Like, I have an inner curtain in my mind-
David: Right
Seth: ... that is preventing me from experiencing the joy or the freedom-
David: Yes
Seth: ... or the innocence or the purity-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... that I really need, and Jesus comes, and he spreads the blood-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and he cleans me.
David: He's like, "I clean that."
Seth: He cleans it.
David: Yeah. And, and, like, and that, that deep inner part of you, you know, that you, you are identifying as your mind, the Jewish mind had a different locale for that.
Seth: The heart.
David: Yes.
Seth: Right?
David: Yes, but, um, what they meant by that were different bodily organs than the ba-bum,-
Seth: Oh, yeah, yeah
David: ... ba-bum, ba-bum thing that we think of-
Seth: Right
David: ... when we think of heart. They thought of the kidneys, the-
Seth: The splachna
David: ... the splachna-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... which is the Hebrew wor- or the Greek word-
Seth: Greek word for guts
David: ... for the guts.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So your intestines and your liver. So what is it that is always taken out and burned, um, in the-
Seth: Mm
David: ... in the fellowship offering and in the sin offering and in the guilt offering?
Seth: The lobe of the liver.
David: It's the, it's your kidneys, the liver, and the splachna, [laughs] your guts.
Seth: Fascinating.
David: And the reason is for that is to say, like, this is an emotional experience. Those feelings that I feel-
Seth: Right
David: ... and the guilt that I feel and the, the, the punishment and the uncleanliness that I feel in my, in my guts-
Seth: Guts
David: ... I'm gonna, I'm pulling that out of the animal and sacrificing it and said, "Even those feelings are clean now."
Seth: Mm.
David: And, like, that's a really important symbol. So every time you come upon, "And the kidneys and the long lobe of the liver and the intest-" It's like, there's a reason.
Seth: Right.
David: He's saying your heart, your mind, your will, your emotions, like, those things are touched by the purifying blood of Jesus every time you read that, so just remember that-
Seth: That's good
David: ... whenever it feels weird. [laughs] Okay, last one, guilt offerings. Um, another, another with, a- again, another translation for this would be a reparation offering, and these are, these are done when, uh, whenever you sin, uh, and it hurts someone else, and you, you, you've done something s-
Seth: And you're supposed to bring compensation-
David: That's right
Seth: ... for what you've lost.
David: There's not only a, a sacrifice to deal with the sin, there's also compensation to pay back the person for what you've done to them.
Seth: Plus 20%.
David: Plus 20%, that's right.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So this is a really, I think a really cool thing [laughs] that the Bible does here, is that it understands that when you sin, most often you're not just offending God, and, a- a- and it's not only your own conscience that's marred. We've taken care of both of those, right? We've got burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to take care of the vertical relationship. We've got purification offerings to ca- take care of how my guts feel, right?
Seth: Right, right.
David: The inner.
Seth: Right, right, right.
David: But what about the outer? What about the people next to me? What about when my sin hurts my neighbors, my family, my kids, right? Uh, what happens whenever sin actually goes and breaks the world as it always does? Um, the Bible says that we're responsible for that. Leviticus here tells us that the guilt offering, um, requires reparations to be made to those offended by sin-
Seth: Mm
David: ... other than God and your conscience. And so if you go and you kill someone's donkey out of-
Seth: Right
David: ... out of spite, you gotta give them a donkey, and then, and then 20% more of a donkey. [laughs] No, no, you gotta-
Seth: [laughs]
David: You, you, you take the, you take the cost of the-
Seth: Just plus a leg
David: ... the leg. [laughs]
Seth: [laughs]
David: No, you take the cost of the donkey, and you pay 20% based-
Seth: Right
David: ... on a shekel of the sh- sanctuary. The shekel of the sanctuary, it's how much you pay. Um-
Seth: That's actually David's real voice
David: ... it's hard to say. I, I pretend every other time.
Seth: He's [laughs] totally-
David: That's actually how I talk, though.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yeah.
Seth: It's weird.
David: And so, um, and I think that's really interesting, and I think it's a very, I don't like the word progressive. What's a better word for that? But it's-
Seth: What do you mean?
David: It's a just, it feels like a very progressive thing for the, for Leviticus to be doing, to be like, "This isn't just about your relationship with God. It's also about your relationship with one another."
Seth: Oh.
David: "And you need to make things right with people, plus 20%." Like, that's just, like, grace upon grace to people.
Seth: 'Cause I think the only category a lot of us as at least Americans have for reparations are, like, this far, like-
David: Right
Seth: ... an idea of the far left liberal agenda that wants to [laughs]Have reparations for slavery.
David: Right.
Seth: Like that's literally the only context I hear the word reparations is now.
David: Oh, yeah.
Seth: Is like reparations for slavery, and that has been like essentially most people say, "Oh, that's a liberal thing, and if you're conservative you don't do that." Like that's, uh, like right? Like that's much-
David: Right [laughs]
Seth: ... like it's just-
David: It's so stupid. Okay. Anyway
Seth: ... so stupid, but anyway, uh, that, I think the reason why you're struggling to find a word for that-
David: Right
Seth: ... is 'cause, like, in our modern context-
David: I guess that's why I'm saying progressive.
Seth: Right.
David: 'Cause it feels liberal [laughs].
Seth: Right.
David: It feels like a liberal thing.
Seth: But it's not.
David: It's not.
Seth: The i- the idea here-
David: It's a biblical thing
Seth: ... is that when you harm somebody, when you destroy something, it, we, we have the same system in the court system. Like we, like-
David: Yes
Seth: ... you have caused me bodily harm.
David: A settlement.
Seth: There's a settlement, and it's-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... not just the medical bills.
David: No.
Seth: It's the hurt and the pain.
David: That's right.
Seth: Or what, what is it called? There's like a ph- a phrase for it.
David: Oh, I can't remember.
Seth: It's like, like there's a phrase that we use-
David: Yes
Seth: ... even in our legal system that says-
David: That's right
Seth: ... there's a sp- there's a dollar amount-
David: Yep
Seth: ... that we can put on the medical bills or the cost of my car, but there's also, like, harm and-
David: That's right
Seth: ... time and things that I can never be compensated for again.
David: Right. Well, I was just in San Diego, and I was watching the local news, and, uh, a bicyclist got hit, um, on a street because there were no bike paths for him, and he just settled with the city for $250 million because he's a quadriplegic now, and it's like-
Seth: Oh my gosh
David: ... and he has, he needs daily around the clock care, and $250 will, the $250 million will more than cover that. But why did, why was the settlement so big? Well, it's 'cause his whole life is ruined-
Seth: Right
David: ... and no amount of money will ever make that right.
Seth: Right.
David: But maybe that'll help. Like, that's kinda the idea is, like, maybe $250 million-
Seth: So-
David: ... will make you feel better for being a quadriplegic. It won't, but it-
Seth: It-
David: ... might get close.
Seth: Well, like we're making reparations. We're making-
David: We're making, yeah, exactly
Seth: ... we're trying to, like, smooth over-
David: Trying to fix this
Seth: ... the relationship, and I'm sure that that man has a much better relationship with the city than he would have if there was no reparation made.
David: Definitely right. Yes.
Seth: It's like, I, I don't, I don't know what that relationship's gonna look like, but maybe he becomes an advocate for the city to make bike paths [laughs]-
David: Definitely
Seth: ... safer roads, sa- safety.
David: Yes. Right
Seth: ... like all that kind of stuff.
David: Right.
Seth: So what we're seeing here is, like, this is a cast of characters. These are the types of sacrifices-
David: Yep
Seth: ... that are offered. There's a whole sacrifice that is purely given to God, nothing's left for you.
David: Yep.
Seth: There's a fellowship sacrifice that's supposed to celebrate your relationship with God.
David: Yep.
Seth: There are sacrifices for when you sin unintentionally.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: There are sacrifices for when you have sinned against another, an individual-
David: Yep
Seth: ... and you want to repair that relationship.
David: That's right.
Seth: And what you're seeing here is, like, there is not an area of your life in which a sacrifice or an offering is not applicable.
David: That's right.
Seth: Like, there is something for you there.
David: Yeah. Yeah, you're, you're never left high and dry with your sin.
Seth: Right.
David: Like, God has always provided a way to, to heal that, and the New Testament finds ways to connect what Jesus did to every single one of these major categories of offerings, and we've talked about them-
Seth: Right
David: ... uh, in different ways. The guilt offering here, the reparation offering, I think is, is one of the most beautiful because, again, let's look at the court situation, and let's, let's say, let's say, like, you have a, a, a mother and her son was killed by a murderer.
Seth: Right.
David: And the murderer is, is found guilty, he's death penalty, and she gets $100 million.
Seth: Right.
David: Right? Does that bring her son back from the dead?
Seth: No.
David: No. When Jesus comes and brings ultimate justice and, and, like, through his sacrifice and through his resurrection, everything he did as the new high priest, as the new guilt offering, right, what he does is when he shows back up on the scene to bring justice, to bring mercy-
Seth: Right
David: ... on the whole world, he says, "Behold, I make all things new."
Seth: Yeah.
David: And Jesus is able to take the broken, dead things of this world that no legal system could actually put right and finally put them right. He can bring sons back to life.
Seth: Yeah.
David: He can heal broken hearts. He can repair damaged emotions and, and, like, trauma he can heal. Like, he'll do all of that perfectly when he makes all things new.
Seth: If you're having trouble connecting the idea of sacrifices to Jesus, a really g- great place to go is Isaiah 53.
David: Definitely.
Seth: So it's the picture of the suffering servant.
David: And it's, a- and, and, and to say, like, I think it's a very valid thing for you to do. It's the, it's the one place that the New Testament always goes-
Seth: It always goes back to
David: ... to help us understand.
Seth: But, like, listen to the language. "He was pierced for our transgressions-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... crushed for our iniquities, and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: "When his soul makes an offering for guilt, make ma- uh, and then, uh, my servant will make many to be accounted righteous."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: "He shall bear their iniquities, and he was numbered with the transgressors."
David: Yeah.
Seth: And so, like, so what is, so this is all language we've just read in Leviticus. Like, Isaiah is borrowing language-
David: Yes
Seth: ... from Leviticus 1 to 5-
David: That's right
Seth: ... to build out this picture of this suffering servant who will die as a sacrifice, but the servant language is also important because all this Levitica- Levitical laws and types of sacrifices are leading up to a description of a priest who is described over and over again as a servant of the people. So when Jesus becomes the suffering servant, it's, he's the sacrifice and the servant. He's the sacrifice and the priest. This is why in Matthew when Jesus is talking to his disciples about who he is, he says, "Even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many," and that's exactly the words of, uh, Isaiah when, that's translated a little bit differently, but when Isaiah says he makes an offering for guilt.
David: Mm.
Seth: It's the same word, ransom for many.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Tra- numbered with the transgression, it's the same words in Leviticus. Jesus Christ is the sacrifice. He's the ransom for all people. [upbeat music]
Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a nonprofit dedicated to creating free gospel-centered media that speaks the gospel out of every corner of scripture. So to join us in our mission and view our resources, we invite you to visit spokengospel.com. [upbeat music]
