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Song of Songs Overview: The Honeymoon Night

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The Honeymoon Night: Understanding the Structure and Meaning of Song of Songs

Show Notes

In this episode, hosts David and Seth dive deep into the literary architecture of Song of Songs, exploring how this ancient love poetry is structured as a chiasm—a literary mountain that builds toward a climactic center. They examine how the book traces a woman's psychological journey through the loss of virginity, the fears and vulnerabilities that accompany such intimate moments, and how this wisdom literature ultimately points toward redemption from shame. Note: This episode contains mature content discussing biblical themes of sexuality and marriage.

The Chiastic Structure: A Literary Mountain

Song of Songs is arranged as a chiasm, a literary structure that mirrors itself at the beginning and end, with matching tiers ascending toward a central peak. While scholars have proposed various outlines—some with as many as twenty steps up and down—the book can be understood through five essential tiers. At the base of the mountain on both sides sit extended declarations of love, where the bride and groom pour out lavish praise for one another. Moving up one tier, you encounter the woman's contemplation of the marriage bed, with chapter three anticipating the consummation and chapter five reflecting upon it. At the very summit stands the moment of consummation itself—remarkably brief at just two verses, signaling that the act of intercourse is not the central focus of the song.

This structure reveals something profound about the book's priorities. The brevity of the consummation scene at the mountain's peak indicates that Song of Songs cares far more about the relationship between the lovers than about the physical act itself. The man and woman are always reflecting on each other—on their love, beauty, and commitment—rather than fixating on the moment of sexual union. Understanding this chiastic architecture helps readers see how the poems before the summit anticipate what is coming, while those after reflect on what has transpired, particularly the transformation from virgin to bride.

Declarations of Love: The Mountain's Foundation

The first and final chapters of Song of Songs overflow with gushing, flowery language as the lovers adorn each other with praise. The bride opens the poem longing for kisses, declaring that her beloved's love is better than wine and his name is like oil poured out. The groom responds by comparing his bride to a mare among Pharaoh's chariots—not a strange comparison when understood properly. Pharaoh's horses were spectacularly adorned with armor and jewels, a sight to behold. He is saying that even without ornaments, even in her nakedness, she appears covered in the finest jewelry because of her inherent beauty.

These metaphors throughout the book are not meant to provide literal physical descriptions but rather to convey how the beloved makes the lover feel. When the groom says her hair is like a flock of goats leaping down the slopes of Gilead, he is not describing what her hair looks like but the awe he experiences watching it move—the same wonder one feels watching mountain goats navigate impossible cliffs with breathtaking grace. The declarations of love at the end of the book grow even longer and more elaborate than those at the beginning. This expansion carries theological weight: after the bride loses her virginity, the poetry describing her beauty intensifies rather than diminishes. The structure itself communicates that in losing something precious, she has gained everything. Her husband finds her even more beautiful after the consummation, demonstrating that the divine transfer from virgin to wife has been accomplished wisely and without shame.

Contemplating the Marriage Bed: Fear and Vulnerability

The second tier of the chiasm, found in chapters three and five, presents the most debated passages in Song of Songs. In both, the woman finds herself in bed at night, searching for her husband but unable to find him—even though the surrounding verses make clear he is right there with her. The traditional interpretation suggests these are anxiety dreams, but a more compelling reading sees these as windows into the woman's psychological experience during the act of consummation itself. The man, though present physically, cannot accompany her through the unique experience of losing her virginity. She enters a place he cannot go, experiencing something he cannot share.

In chapter three, anticipating the wedding night, the woman seeks the watchmen—symbolic of all those who have protected her virginity: her family, her community of fellow virgins, and the wall around her garden that has kept her pure. She asks if they have seen her beloved, and after barely passing them, she finds him and brings him to her mother's chambers. This reference to her mother is not about a literal location but about the birth canal and womb—the same passage her mother traversed to give her life. She draws strength from knowing her mother underwent this same rite of passage, this same death to bring forth life. The chapter ends with a warning to the daughters of Jerusalem not to awaken love before its time, emphasizing the costliness of what she is about to give.

After Consummation: Bruised but Beautiful

Chapter five, positioned after the chiastic summit, presents a far more violent and vulnerable reflection. Here the woman again searches for her beloved who seems absent, but this time the watchmen beat her, bruise her, and tear away her veil. This graphic imagery represents the psychological reality of virginity being destroyed. The protection she has known her entire life—her virginity, her community of fellow virgins, the walls around her garden—has been forcibly removed. She is left exposed and vulnerable, wondering if she will still be found beautiful and acceptable now that her purity is gone.

What happens next is remarkable. The daughters of Jerusalem ask two questions that serve as antidotes to her fear. First, they ask who her beloved is, and even in her beaten and bruised state, she gushes over him: he is radiant and ruddy, distinguished among ten thousand, with a head of finest gold. She reaffirms the identity and worthiness of the man to whom she has entrusted her priceless gift. Second, they ask where he has gone, and she realizes with sudden clarity that he never left. He is right there in his garden, grazing among the lilies, united with her in the act of love. Immediately following this realization, the husband sings his longest and most elaborate song over his bride, declaring her more beautiful than ever. The very moment she feared shame and rejection, she receives the opposite—an outpouring of adoration that exceeds anything spoken before her virginity was lost.

Reversing the Fall: Eden in the Bedroom

Song of Songs functions as a reversal of the Genesis fall narrative. When Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil prematurely, their eyes were opened to their nakedness and they experienced shame. But in Song of Songs, when the bride opens her garden and stands fully exposed before her husband, his eyes are opened to her beauty rather than her shame. The warning repeated three times to the daughters of Jerusalem—not to awaken love before its time—echoes the wisdom about not eating the forbidden fruit too early. Jewish tradition holds that Adam and Eve would eventually have been permitted to eat from both the tree of life and the tree of knowledge, becoming wise and eternal like God, but they ate too soon and brought death and shame into the world.

This connection illuminates why Lady Folly in Proverbs is depicted as a promiscuous woman beckoning men to awaken love before its time. Promiscuity perpetuates the curse of the fall, while faithful marital union reverses it. The wisdom of Song of Songs teaches that sex within marriage, conducted wisely with mutual honor and consent, actually brings Eden into the bedroom. The bride is described as an unassailable fortress with shields of David covering her, and the groom recognizes he cannot take her—she must let him in. When she does open her garden, inviting the winds to blow and release her spices, she does so freely and without coercion. This wisdom-guided consummation results not in shame and hiding but in celebration and blessing.

The Summit and the Song's Wider Message

At the mountaintop of the chiasm, the consummation unfolds in just a few verses. The bride invites her beloved to come to his garden and eat its choicest fruit—her virginity, the most precious thing she has to offer. The groom responds with language of abundance and luxury: he gathers myrrh with his spice, eats honeycomb with honey, drinks wine with milk. He uses the imagery of milk and honey, the same description given to the promised land of Canaan, elevating this moment to cosmic significance. He does not trivialize her gift but heightens it to its uttermost value. Then the chorus endorses what has happened without any hint of scandal: "Eat, friends! Drink and be drunk with love." The whole community celebrates because this union has been conducted wisely, in its proper time, with full consent and mutual honor.

This message extends beyond the wedding night to address those who carry sexual brokenness of any kind—whether from pornography, divorce, extramarital sex, or sexual trauma. The song offers hope that even after being beaten and bruised by life's circumstances, a loving husband or a loving God can come and find you beautiful still. For those experiencing a dark night of the soul, when God feels absent at the very moment of vulnerability and obedience, the same questions apply: Who is your beloved? He is faithful, kind, patient, loving—He died for you. Where has He gone? He is right here, indwelling you through His Spirit, never having left. Jesus is the ultimate bridegroom who can take anyone out of sexual or spiritual death and bring them into life, finding them beautiful regardless of their past.

Transcript

David: Hey, everyone. Just wanted to let you know that if you have little ones around that do not know about the birds and the bees yet, maybe listen to this episode with some headphones on, because we're talking [chuckles] about Song of Songs. Wanted to give you that heads-up. Let's dive in. [gentle music] It's interesting that actually when we enter into a shameless [chuckles] you know, in a way-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... like, a, a, a re- a relationship without shame, that we actually can kind of bring Eden into-

Seth: Mm

David: ... our bedrooms as-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... married couples. Also, I also wanna say, or by protecting your virginity as these daughters of Jerusalem.

Seth: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

David: Like, being in the garden and not taking the fruit, or taking the fruit of it at its proper time, are both ways to be wise in the garden.

Intro: Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a ministry that's dedicated to speaking the gospel out of every corner of scripture. In Luke 24, Jesus told his disciples that every part of the Bible is about him. In each episode, hosts David and Seth work through a passage of scripture to see how it's all about Jesus and his good news. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]

Seth: Hey, everyone, and welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. My name is Seth, and we are talking about the Song of Solomon. David-

David: Yes

Seth: ... how are you feeling about the second episode?

David: Well, I'm feeling very good about it, 'cause we got through some of the bigger themes that-

Seth: Yes

David: ... the book addresses in the last episode.

Seth: I think I was surprised. I kind of expected love poetry.

David: Yep.

Seth: But I- what I was surprised by was the way that you talked about poems about a woman losing her virginity in a wise way.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And we talked for a long time about how, uh, the marriage night should be a night attended to by wisdom, because the fate of the world [laughs] is- uh-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... at stake. And so if you wanna listen to that conversation, you should go listen to our previous-

David: Yes

Seth: ... conversation. But building off of that-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... I actually still don't know anything about the book itself.

David: Yes, we have not gotten into the book yet.

Seth: I know it's a collection of poems about a woman losing her virginity in the tradition of the wisdom literature.

David: Yeah.

Seth: But what- how does the Song of Solomon actually work?

David: Yeah, and so I think, uh, the one thing to keep at the front of our mind from our last conversation is that you have this woman who has kept her garden-

Seth: Okay

David: ... uh, her virginity. Uh, she's walled it up.

Seth: Is the garden her, like normal-

David: A garden is her body.

Seth: Is that, like, the normal metaphor-

David: Um

Seth: ... Song of Solomon uses?

David: Uh, one of them-

Seth: Or one of them

David: ... one of them for her-

Seth: Okay

David: ... for her body, especially for her female reproductive organ.

Seth: Cool.

David: Uh, it's like... And it's walled off, and it's protected, and she's kept it that way.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Um, and so- and she, along with the daughters of Jerusalem, other virgins in Jerusalem, other-

Seth: Mm

David: ... Jewish virgin women, uh, have kind of... They're friends, and they-

Seth: Mm

David: ... are, uh, are thinking about going through this rite of passage at some point, and she is the one leaving that fold of women to go join with her husband. And now the husband comes, and he has to open her garden-

Seth: Mm

David: ... and take away her virginity-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... this priceless, beautiful thing.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And do that in such a wise way, that what he gives her on the other side has to be just as good as or better than-

Seth: It's not just shame-

David: ... her virginity

Seth: ... and destruction, but just honor and life.

David: It's honor and beauty, and actually, it- so there's this divine transfer-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... this beautiful transfer that happens from virginity to wife-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... or virgin to wife.

Seth: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

David: And so the structure of the song-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... tells that story.

Seth: Okay.

David: And so there's kind of, um, a helpful way to look at it. Uh, and let me just say this upfront as we get into some of the meat of this book. Th- there are... There's just no consensus around how to handle this book, how to lay it out.

Seth: This is one of the few facts I know about-

David: Yes

Seth: ... Song of Solomon, that there are... And I, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but there are more commentaries made about Song of Songs than any other book of the Bible.

David: I think maybe the fairer way to put it is there are more commentaries that don't agree with each other- [laughs]

Seth: [laughs]

David: ... written about Song of Songs. Or another way to say it is, for every opinion, there's a commentary, and for every commentary, there's an opinion. Like, basically, no one really agrees. There's some consensus around certain things, like, "Oh, Solomon probably didn't write it," but there are several commentaries that claim he did.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Um, there, there are things around, uh, how to interpret it, um, some claiming allegory or a historical drama.

Seth: Mm.

David: But most, especially in the last 100 years, are it's a love poem.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: So there is some consensus.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Um, but there are- there's just a lot of opinions out there about how to interpret this thing.

Seth: So this is our-

David: This is-

Seth: Oh-

David: We have read a bunch of commentaries [chuckles]-

Seth: Uh-huh

David: ... and there is one interpretation from a very reputable scholar, who's written many commentaries, people love. There's two of his books right down there.

Seth: Yeah.

David: You've got the, those top two. They are both from him.

Seth: The New American Commentary and The Word Biblical Commentary.

David: That's right. And so it's Dwayne Garrett, um, and, and, it, it, he- his commentaries have risen to the top, and he's been endorsed by some of our favorite scholars, like, uh, Sailhamer.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And, uh, and, and he's just, like, really clear-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and it makes sense of all the data-

Seth: Okay

David: ... in a sense. It's, it's just like, this one actually fits everything, and I can go through the whole book-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and it doesn't break. [chuckles]

Seth: Well, great. [chuckles]

David: And every other interpretation breaks on multiple, that, like, places, and it, and it, it makes it really hard to maintain a consistent thought through the book, except for Garrett's.

Seth: Okay.

David: And so we're gonna look at that structure.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But I just wanna say, like, this is one structure-

Seth: Of many

David: ... of many.

Seth: Of many.

David: So the way we're gonna approach it is, uh... And, and most people agree, this is a chiasm. So again-... there is a lot of agreement that the poem is laid out as a chiasm.

Seth: A literary structure.

David: A literary structure that mirrors, um, itself at beginning and end. It starts with bookends.

Seth: Okay.

David: So the beginning and the end match, and then as you move up kind of the mountain-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... if you look at the beginning and end as each foot of the mountain on each side-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and you go up a tier-

Seth: Yes

David: ... those tiers match, and you go up a tier, and those tiers match. You go up a tier, those tiers match, and then at the center of the chiasm, in the middle of the book, is the main point-

Seth: Okay

David: ... or the high- or the highest point.

Seth: Okay.

David: And so that's how the book is laid out, and the cl- the simplest way, there's like, there's one chiasm structure that is, I think, 20 steps up and 20 steps down.

Seth: A 20-story mountain? [laughs]

David: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Uh, not the seven one.

Seth: No.

David: Not Seven Story Mountain. [laughs]

Seth: I've never read that.

David: I've never- I actually haven't read it either. [laughs] Um, but, um, 20 stories up, that you can kind of simplify that into about 9 or 10, but th- I think the clearest way to do it is in five.

Seth: Give, give me, give me less.

David: Here's five.

Seth: Give me less.

David: Two steps up, and the mi- and the middle.

Seth: Okay.

David: You ready?

Seth: What's at the base of the mountain?

David: So the base of the mountain, at the, at the first couple of chapters and then the last couple of chapters, are just declarations of love. So confessions of love, and this is where you get some of the most beautiful, gushing, flowery, adorning language.

Seth: Can you give me a couple examples?

David: Ooh, yes, let's do that. So let's see here. Let's, let's look at the very first line of the poem.

Seth: Okay, okay, yeah.

David: Verse two. This is the, the, the bride speaking: "Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth, for your love is better than wine. Your anointing oils are fragrant, your name is oil poured out, therefore, virgins love you. Draw me after you. Let us run. The king has brought me into his chambers."

Seth: Okay.

David: So the... And then let's hear from, from him. "I compare..." This is verse nine of the first chapter. This is the, the, the husband speaking: "I compare you, my love, to a mare among Pharaoh's chariots." Now, he just called her a horse.

Seth: Right.

David: But, you know. [laughs]

Seth: A good, a good horse. [laughs]

David: A good horse. No, horses, Pharaoh's horses were adorned.

Seth: Yeah, they were-

David: They were clad in, in armor and jewelry and beautiful things, and they were a spectacle to behold. And then the next line is, "Your cheeks are lovely with ornaments, your neck with strings of jewels." So again, he's just talking about-

Seth: Mm

David: ... how adorned she is-

Seth: Okay

David: ... with beauty. It's, it's as if even without wearing any jewelry, or maybe not wearing anything at all, if this is describing-

Seth: Mm, mm

David: ... the moment of right be- uh, right before consummation, even in her nakedness-

Seth: Mm

David: ... it's as if she's covered in the finest jewelry-

Seth: Okay

David: ... because of how beautiful she is.

Seth: Can you give me some from the end of the book?

David: Yes.

Seth: The, the other base of the mountain?

David: Oh, man. So they, they, they honestly get better as you go.

Seth: Okay. [laughs] Great.

David: Uh, they, they, they grow. And again, that is going to, to show us that that transfer from virgin to bride-

Seth: 'Cause this is on the other-

David: The other side of the loss of virginity-

Seth: Okay

David: ... that the, the poems get even longer and more beautiful.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And so it's showing that even when the bride loses something-

Seth: Mm

David: ... everything is still to gain.

Seth: Okay.

David: And so here at the end-

Seth: This is the final declaration of love.

David: So some of the final declarations of love. I mean, there's so many. I should've picked my favorites ahead of time, but, um, let's see here. "O that you were a brother to me," 8:1. "O that you were a brother to me, who nursed at my mother's breasts! If I found you outside, I would kiss you, and none would despise me." You know what she's asking for here?

Seth: Uh...

David: PDA. [laughs]

Seth: Uh, yeah, but-

David: She, she can't... It's just, it's uncouth in this culture-

Seth: Uh-huh

David: ... to just-

Seth: Oh

David: ... to just kiss her husband like crazy in public. And she's like, "But if you were my brother, I could hold your hand, I could, I could hang on you."

Seth: I was like, "The brother thing's throwing me, man." [laughs]

David: But it's not appropriate for a husband and wife to act that way in this time in public.

Seth: Got it.

David: She's like, "Oh, but if we... Like, I wish it was culturally acceptable-

Seth: Mm

David: ... for me to just kiss all over you-

Seth: Cool. Man

David: ... even whenever we're hanging out in the market-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... 'cause I just can't keep my hands off you."

Seth: Okay.

David: And she's just gushing over him.

Seth: Great.

David: Um, or let's see here. Let's look at, uh, chapter seven, uh, verse one, when he starts coming, uh, back to her with his song after she loses her virginity.

Seth: Uh-huh.

David: This is... These are some of the most beautiful... It actually- his actually starts in ver- in chapter six. Um, he says, uh, "Turn away from me," 6:5, "Turn, uh, away your eyes from me, for they overwhelm me. Your hair is like a flock of goats leaping down the slopes of Gilead." So he's like, "You're looking at me, and it's so intense, I need you to turn away from me-

Seth: Mm

David: ... 'cause your, your eyes are just so beautiful, and the way you're looking at me-

Seth: Mm

David: ... with love is so captivating-

Seth: Mm

David: ... that it's, like, ruining me. [chuckles] Like, stop looking at me-

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah

David: ... with those beautiful dove eyes of yours. Um, your hair, uh, is like flocks of goats leaping down the slopes of Gilead." When we read this poetry, we need to not think about, "Okay, so what would it look like to see a bunch of goats jumping down a mountain?" [laughs]

Seth: Yeah.

David: That's not what he's describing. It's- he's not necessarily describing what she looks like with a physic-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... like, like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... when you s- when you say, like, "Oh, this room is as dark as night"

Seth: Uh-huh.

David: I'm actually describing what the room looks like.

Seth: Yeah.

David: When I, when I would say, like, "The room felt like a sw- like a swamp."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: I, I'm not saying that there's like... like, my room is wet, and there's-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... creatures in it. It's, it's like, I feel like-

Seth: Humid

David: ... like, it's-

Seth: Dark.

David: Or, yeah, and I'm-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... I'm feeling like it's unsafe, and-

Seth: If I was to guess, then-

David: ... there's something lurking

Seth: ... if I- if this is supposed to be a vibe more than a description-

David: Yes

Seth: ... I'm thinking, like, just bouncing, beautiful hair in a Pantene-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... like a, a hair commercial, where it's just, like, bouncing. [laughs]

David: A Pantene commercial? [laughs]

Seth: It's just like... Well, how do you get your hair to do that? I've never seen anybody's hair look like that.

David: Yeah, well, so Duane, Duane Garrett, what, what he says is these metaphors aren't describing how, uh, the woman looks to the man-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... but how the woman makes him feel.

Seth: Mm.

David: He's like, "I, I've seen goats hopping down mountains-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and I'm like, 'That's stunning.'"

Seth: Yes.

David: "And I'm like, 'Wow!'" Like, how, how they do that, how... Like, their surefootedness and-

Seth: 'Cause these goats... Now, I'm, yeah, now that you say that, like, oh, those, these aren't just like-... goats.

David: These are mountain goats.

Seth: These are those goats that have, like, those rock-climbing goats-

David: Yeah, the rock-climbing goats

Seth: -that are just, like, running up and down.

David: It's crazy.

Seth: It's- yeah, I've seen videos of that.

David: And it's like, how can your hair flow like that?

Seth: Yeah.

David: It's so beautiful. And so he's just like, "It's very, very gushy."

Seth: Cool.

David: So that's the bottom of the mountain on each side.

Seth: Can I ask a-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... clear- clear-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... 'cause we keep talking about these as perspectives on the loss of virginity. Is the first one a declaration of love before, uh, the consummation, and is the last one a declaration of love after?

David: Okay, so yes and no.

Seth: Okay.

David: And here's, again, where we have to think about the genre and the structure.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So we don't wanna think about this as a linear form of events-

Seth: Okay

David: ... uh, but instead, as possibly, um, the same-ish time of events happening-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... at, in, like, it, from different vantage points.

Seth: So each poem, we have a preparation for consummation, and then something else?

David: Oh, good question.

Seth: And then it happens five times?

David: Kind of.

Seth: Okay.

David: Uh, that, that's actually really helpful as we think about structure. So although this breaks a few times-

Seth: Yes

David: ... the, the general structure in the poems is you have this rising action leading to what feels like consummation.

Seth: Mm.

David: So they'll be describing how they look to each other-

Seth: Yes

David: ... and it's like, "Well, it's getting hot and heavy in here."

Seth: Yeah.

David: And then all of a sudden, now his hand is under her head, and his left hand is under her thigh, and-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... it's like, and cut! And it's like, whoa.

Seth: Okay.

David: Hold.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And, and okay, new poem, and it kinda does that several times.

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kind of the way, like, cameras will just pan away.

David: And yeah-

Seth: Like, you see a door close-

David: That's right, and then whoop

Seth: ... and you don't see anything else.

David: And you understand what's happening next.

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

David: So yes, that kind of happens a lot of times, um, here. And so at the beginning and the end, you have-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... these longer sections-

Seth: Yes

David: ... of confession of love, and beauty, and commitment, and-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... adorning the lovers-

Seth: Okay

David: ... both ways.

Seth: Okay.

David: The, the woman to the man, and the man to the woman.

Seth: And different poems will kind of focus on different parts of that experience. So, like, what... The, the beginning poem will focus more on the prepara- just as an example, like, more so, more on the preparation for the consummation, and the middle poem focuses more on the consummation itself, or...?

David: Maybe. I- it's a little hard to-

Seth: Or, I mean, I guess, like, you-

David: They don't- again, they don't fit quite into these linear categories of before and after.

Seth: I guess what you said was, like, these are declarations of love.

David: Yes.

Seth: So the biggest thing you should notice in the first one and the last one is just these declarations of-

David: Yes

Seth: ... love for one another.

David: Yeah.

Seth: That's the emphasis.

David: I think what, what, what we wanna preserve here-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and I'm, I'm, I'm in my no right now. There is a yes to your question.

Seth: Yes.

David: There... But I'm in the no right now, that in each poem-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... we wanna be careful to treat them, uh, like, as they are.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And as- it's whenever people and commentators try to put them in these linear categories-

Seth: Mm

David: ... that they kinda do damage to the poet, the poetry.

Seth: Okay.

David: And it's like, "Oh, this must mean that he's moved from here to here, or they've gone from this place-

Seth: Mm

David: ... to that place", or, "Oh, this is their fourth encounter." And it's like, stop trying to do math with poetry.

Seth: You're not meant to necessarily read between the lines of poems-

David: That's right

Seth: ... of like, there's, like, when a poem ends, that poem has ended, and you're not necessarily meant to read between-

David: So then the next day or the next minute-

Seth: Yeah, yeah

David: ... or the next hour-

Seth: Okay

David: ... or the next year, no.

Seth: Yes.

David: Um, and, and so that's the no.

Seth: Okay.

David: That, but there also is a yes to your question about, so are they... Is the first set of confessions of love poetry looking forward to the consummation-

Seth: Uh-huh

David: ... and the second set looking back at it?

Seth: Mm.

David: Yes, in a sense-

Seth: Okay

David: ... because of where these poems, these non-linear poems, are placed in the chiasm.

Seth: I understand.

David: That the literary- the poems aren't doing that perspection, that perspective, but the, the, the structure of the book gives you that perspective.

Seth: Yeah, I understand what you're saying.

David: Yes.

Seth: Be- I guess what... I'm not- I'm guessing that the middle of the chiasm, the h- top of the mountain, is consummation.

David: You are absolutely right. Good guess.

Seth: Yes, so it makes sense then that when you read this book, you're expecting cons...

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Like, you're expecting that, so the first two poems are leading you-

David: Yes

Seth: ... to that event, and the lac- last two poems are reflecting upon that event.

David: Yes.

Seth: That makes sense.

David: That's right.

Seth: Okay.

David: Uh, or to put it differently, um, I think it's really helpful, actually, to understand that the, the top of the mountain, the consummation moment-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... which we'll get to, and we can't skip the, the next tier-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... before we get to it, but it's, it's very short. It's two verses.

Seth: Mm.

David: Um, and I think that's actually really important-

Seth: Mm

David: ... to the message of Song of Songs, that the moment of consummation is not the most important thing-

Seth: Mm

David: ... to the song. The act of intercourse is-

Seth: Mm

David: ... not the most important thing to the song. Inste- And so they're not reflecting on the act of intercourse before or after. Instead, they're focused on each other-

Seth: Mm

David: ... and they're focused on the love and the beauty that, that they have for each other, and they see in each other.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And so leading up to it, you have this, this man saying, uh, con- a- affirming that this virgin bride is as beautiful-

Seth: Mm

David: ... as you could possibly imagine.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, she is the embodiment of the purity of virginity-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and she is apprised among all women.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And then she loses her virginity, and what happens at the, at the end-

Seth: Mm

David: ... is he says, "And you're even more beautiful now." He elevates his languages, use longer, uses longer poetry-

Seth: Mm, mm

David: ... dives deeper into his description of her beauty-

Seth: Mm, mm

David: ... because at the, with the loss of virginity, she didn't lose any of her beauty.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And, and-

Seth: Which was her fear.

David: Which was her fear, and we'll get into that more another time.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But so I, I, I-

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah

David: ... I, I wanna say they're not reflecting on the consummation. They're always reflecting on each other.

Seth: Uh, that's a helpful clarification.

David: Yes.

Seth: But as a reader, you're like, "These are important because they are placed after the consummated-

David: That's right

Seth: ... event."

David: That's right.

Seth: And it's like the fact that they're longer afterwards-

David: Yes, means something

Seth: ... means something.

David: It does.

Seth: And it mean, and it means more after the event than it would have before the event.

David: Absolutely.

Seth: Because if the poems were shorter-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... after the act of consummation-

David: Oh, I've lost interest

Seth: ... they would assume you've lost interest. Yeah, yeah.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Okay.

David: Okay, so that's the fir- that's the bottom level.

Seth: Okay.

David: Confessions of love.... the next level is contemplating the marriage bed.

Seth: Okay.

David: And you go into the woman's psyche. It's very interesting. Uh, so this particular part, these are chapters three and five, and-

Seth: Three is in the first half, and five is the second, yeah.

David: Three is the, yeah, is the, is the f- is the-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... first side of the mountain, and five is coming down the mountain. And, uh, these are the center of the quandary [chuckles] for, um, commentators. Th- this is-

Seth: Mm

David: ... where the biggest diversions happen. Uh, in both, the woman finds herself on a bed-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... at night.

Seth: Okay.

David: And she looks for her husband and cannot find him, which is very strange, because right before and right after the, the, like, not being able to find him, he's right there on top of her.

Seth: Okay.

David: And then all of the sudden-

Seth: 'Cause they are ending with, like, the door closing or-

David: Well, no, even, even-

Seth: ... hand on a thigh or something.

David: Yeah, yes.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: But then also even in these poems-

Seth: Uh-huh

David: ... he's right there.

Seth: Mm, okay.

David: And it looks like they're about to have sex, like, like-

Seth: Okay

David: ... for the first time or again, or-

Seth: Yeah, yeah

David: ... you know, 'cause again, it's-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... it's cyclical.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: So it's like they're about to consummate, and then the husband's gone at the moment of their consummation. So let me read you a couple of these.

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure.

David: So you can see. So let's go to chapter three, verse one: "On my bed by night, I sought him whom my soul loves. I sought him but found him not. I will rise now and go about the city in the streets and in the squares. I will seek him whom my soul loves. I sought him but found him not. The watchman found me as they w- as they went about in the city," and I... quote, "Have you seen him, whom my soul loves?"

Seth: That's the woman speaking.

David: That's the woman speaking to the watchman. "Scarcely had I passed them, when I found him-"

Seth: Mm

David: "... whom my soul loves. I held him, and I would not let him go until I had brought him into my mother's house and into the chamber of her who conceived me." Okay, we'll stop there.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: So, uh, in the ESV-

Seth: Mm

David: ... my little superscription here-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... which is not in the Bible-

Seth: Yes

David: ... uh, is The Bride's Dream.

Seth: Okay.

David: So that's one interpretation is that the bride is having an anxiety dream-

Seth: Okay

David: ... about her husband leaving her.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And she woke up from the wedding night and looks around, and her husband's not there, so she runs out into the street and asks the keepers of the city if she's- if they've seen her husband, and she's worried that she- he's abandoned her, and then she finds him and brings him home.

Seth: Okay. So this is like, this is her, like, "Why, where'd my husband go?" And then finding her husband. So-

David: So that is an interpretation-

Seth: Okay

David: ... but not the one we're going to defend here.

Seth: Okay. Okay, okay, okay.

David: That is not our interpretation.

Seth: Okay.

David: There... And there are many, many others. That's, I would say, the most-

Seth: But

David: ... common.

Seth: You mentioned that this is an insight into her, like, anxiety about losing her virginity.

David: That's right. So she... This is contemplating the marriage bed.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So again, um, right before this poem starts, um, in verse six- 16 and 17 of chapter 2: "My beloved is mine, and I am his. He grazes among the lilies." He is on top of her, enjoying her.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "Until the day breathes and the shadows flee, turn, my beloved. Uh, be like a gazelle or a young stag on the clefts of the mountains." Like, "Nuzzle into me, my beloved."

Seth: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

David: And then she's on her bed at night, "And I sought him but found him not." So again, it's this, it's this, oh, they're gonna consummate, and then right as they consummate, right as-

Seth: Mm

David: ... you would think the consummation would happen, the husband's gone.

Seth: Mm-hmm, and the woman's alone with her thoughts.

David: And the woman's alone. Why?

Seth: Mm.

David: And this is gonna happen again in five, but it's gonna be different.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So let's look at just this one. A- and Duane Garrett, and I, I'm convinced by, by his interpretation of this, is that the woman is, is going into an experience that-

Seth: Mm

David: ... only a woman can have, and that the man cannot be a part of.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: That there is a part of, uh, the first marital union-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... that the woman enters into, that the man cannot. Uh, the man, yes, he's a virgin-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... in that he's sexually inexperienced-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... but he's a non-virgin in that he doesn't have the biological marker of virginity.

Seth: Mm-hmm. Right.

David: And for a man to lose his virginity-

Seth: Right

David: ... is not the same thing as a woman to lose her virginity.

Seth: And we talked about it the first episode, too, just about, like, the social stigma that came for a woman-

David: Yes

Seth: ... who was not a virgin. And I guess I'm guessing here, but I'm assuming that for men, there- you- well, there would not be that same stigma, and-

David: The standards and stigmas were different

Seth: ... and men could probably more easily hide and lie about it than a woman could.

David: That's right. Exactly.

Seth: And this goes back to a law in Leviticus, where proof of virginity was a thing that you could offer somehow.

David: Yeah, which I think is in Deuteronomy.

Seth: In Deuteronomy.

David: But yes. Yeah.

Seth: Uh-

David: But yes, exactly right.

Seth: Okay.

David: And so the man is not losing the same thing as the woman is.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And so in the act of consummation, psychologically, the man goes somewhere else. [chuckles]

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: You know, he's in- [chuckles]

Seth: Yeah

David: ... he's, he's in the garden.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And he leaves the woman alone-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... while they're having sex.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And the woman is now alone. I, I've-

Seth: Mm

David: ... "Who understands what I'm going through? My husband doesn't, even though he's right here with me and loves me."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "But I've sought him in this moment, and he's not going through the same thing I'm going through."

Seth: Interesting.

David: And so what does she do? She goes to the watchman. And who are the watchmen-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... other than those who have been the keepers of her virginity all along?

Seth: Mm.

David: It's, it is her virginity itself-

Seth: Okay

David: ... that-

Seth: So not, not her brothers and the women.

David: Now, I think it's all grouped in there.

Seth: Okay.

David: So you have those who have kept her virginity, herself-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... her, her friends-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... her familial community.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: There's even a, a recent paper that came out that, that maps the semantic range of watchmen and brothers, that they, they do kind of-

Seth: Mm

David: ... share some semantic territory. Um, so yes, I think all of that-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... is included, but it's summed up in the idea of the watchman is her virginity.

Seth: What the watchmen watch over.... yeah, kind of like the same thing.

David: Yes, that's right. Yeah, what, what the watchmen watch over is-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... is her virginity. And so she goes to, to, to them, and she's like, "I, I'm coming to the watchmen, like, because that's who- who's been my protector for so long. My virginity-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... my family community, my friend community, they have told me I'm beautiful. They have given me my identity. They have shielded me from shame."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "They have given me protection, because I'm a virgin of Israel."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "And there's a status there, and now it's being taken by my husband, and I can't quite look to him yet to know if he's gonna protect me in the same way." But then, a- as soon as she's asked the question-

Seth: As soon as she contemplates that f- that fearful-

David: That fear

Seth: ... that fearful vulnerability of losing-

David: Mm, yep

Seth: ... her virginity, she finds herself in a-

David: She's like, "Hold on. This is my husband. You know what? I'm gonna grab him-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and I'm gonna take him to my mother's chambers."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Uh, and this is not... They ha- they weren't out in the city streets and then went into-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... her mom's house. That's not where the, the wedding would've been consummated in Jewish culture anyway.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Instead, the mother's chambers is the, the womb, the birth canal.

Seth: Mm.

David: "I'm gonna bring him into my mother's chamber," and in bringing up the mother, what she's doing here is she's recognizing that, "In order for me to have life, my mom went through this same death. My mother's womb-

Seth: Mm

David: ... and birth canal-

Seth: Ah

David: ... went through this, too. She had to go through this same rite of passage, the same death. She had to-

Seth: Mm

David: ... switch her watchmen over as well in order for me to have life. And now-

Seth: Mm

David: ... almost pulling on her strength, I'm going to-

Seth: Okay

David: ... bring my husband into that same place."

Seth: Okay.

David: And so, uh, in the f- again, the poems aren't pr- providing the temporal perspective, but the structure is.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And so since the consummation hasn't happened yet poetically, what you can see this as is her contemplating the moment of consummation.

Seth: When-

David: Not experiencing it-

Seth: When you-

David: ... but thinking about it.

Seth: Yeah, when you consider the poems as a whole, you know you're anticipating that event.

David: Yes.

Seth: But even though in the poem- [chuckles]

David: Right

Seth: ... you might be in that moment.

David: Right.

Seth: Yes.

David: It's hard to say.

Seth: Yes, okay.

David: Uh, and so what we wanna see here is that this is her poetic reflection on what that moment's going to be like.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "I'm gonna have to... My husband's not gonna feel the same way I'm gonna feel."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "I'm gonna look to my virginity to protect me. It's not going to be there."

Seth: Mm.

David: "But you know what? I'm gonna move forward anyway-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and I'm going to bring my husband into my mother's chamber."

Seth: Okay. And then where we-

David: Right, right when that happens-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... you get this famous line, which we're not gonna talk about right now.

Seth: Okay.

David: But I wanna just flag it, that it's, uh, two f- uh, 3:5, and it's not the first time it's popped up. "But I adjure you, O daughters of Jerusalem, by the gazelles or the does of the field, that you do not stir up or awaken love until it pleases."

Seth: She contemplates losing her virginity, she embraces her lover, and then she warns those who protected her previously-

David: Yes, the virgins of Israel

Seth: ... "Don't, don't awaken love before the time."

David: "This is a costly thing I'm going in to do.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Do you see how costly it is?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Do you see the price that I'm giving up?"

Seth: Okay.

David: "Treat your virginity well, daughters of Jerusalem."

Seth: Mm.

David: Okay, so that's the second tier on the mountain going up. Let's look at it, at its counterpart.

Seth: Yep.

David: Okay, so this is chapter 5, verse 2. So this is directly after the, the peak of the mountain of consummation.

Seth: Okay.

David: Directly after it. "I slept, but my heart was awake." So wait, what's happening? [chuckles] Again-

Seth: Uh-huh

David: ... I think she's on her marriage bed.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "A sound! My beloved is knocking." Well, he's not... He's there in bed with her. He's not-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... outside the room.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: So where would he be knocking?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: But on her garden-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... like on the door-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... of, of, uh-

Seth: Of her body

David: ... of her body. And so, uh, "A sound, my beloved knocking," and he, and he- and then this is the voice of the beloved in quoting, "Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my perfect one, for my head is wet with dew, my locks with the drops of the night." Um, there's this urgency.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Right? You, you're locked outside, and you're all wet.

Seth: Yeah.

David: You wanna get in.

Seth: Uh-huh, uh-huh.

David: Right? He's like, this is his sexual desire he's talking about.

Seth: Yes.

David: He's like, "Hey, we've been-

Seth: Ah

David: ... we've been gushing over each other. We've been, we've been stirring each other's-

Seth: Mm

David: ... physical affections up. I'm ready to come inside now."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "I'm ready to consummate."

Seth: So the next verse, "I took my clothes off. [chuckles] How could I put them back on again?"

David: Exactly.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Oh, oh, that's so good.

Seth: Yeah.

David: You're reading it right. Yes.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So i, I, I, I had put off my garment. How could I put it back on? So this is her saying, contemplating losing her virginity-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... "I'm here. I've, I've taken off my clothes. I can't very well-

Seth: Mm

David: ... just say never mind, put my clothes on, and leave."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Um, "I had bathed my feet. How could I soil them again?"

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, I was walking around. I bathed them. I'm in bed now. We're, we are in the middle of the action. I can't very well now leave. "My beloved has put his hand to the latch," or to the door.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, he's right there, um, about to consummate, "And my heart is thrilled within me!" Like, there's-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... I'm reciprocating these emotions, and here we go. "I arose to open to my beloved. My hand dripped with myrrh." Like, she's done everything-

Seth: Mm

David: ... to prepare for this consummating moment. Um-

Seth: Perfumes.

David: Perfumes, yeah.

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David: Um, and so she puts her hand to the bolt. She opens the door. She opens herself up in this moment-

Seth: Mm

David: ... of vulnerability to consummate with her beloved. "I opened to my beloved, but my beloved had turned and gone."

Seth: Mm.

David: Again-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... the husband cannot experience the loss of virginity-

Seth: Mm

David: ... as this woman does. So the moment of consummation, when her door opens and the husband comes in, she's alone.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: She's experiencing something that he cannot experience, and she says this: "My f- my soul failed me when he spoke. I sought him but found him not. I called him, but he gave no answer."

Seth: Mm.

David: He's not experiencing the same thing, and here come the watchmen again, and this time it's different. "The watchmen found me as they went about in the city. They beat me. They bruised me. They took away my veil."... those watchmen of the walls. This is graphic, and so her virginity is being destroyed, and she psychologically is being destroyed by the loss of her virginity.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And so the thing that protected her before, uh, her society, her group of friends, her family, her virginity, has now been beaten and bruised, and it's gone.

Seth: Yeah, and it's interesting. I'm just reflecting on the way the poems are structured. In the first moment where she's contemplating the loss of her virginity, she finds her lover and finds solace in it.

David: That's right.

Seth: In a br- brief solace, like, don't, don't awake- this is good. Don't awaken love before it's time.

David: That's right.

Seth: Then she, after the moment of sex, when the actual, like, you know-

David: Yes

Seth: ... in the structure-

David: Yep

Seth: ... happens, there's actual a more real fear. "Oh, it's actually happened now."

David: Yes.

Seth: "It's, like, the evidence is all, is, is here-

David: Yep

Seth: ... and I've truly lost the thing that I've been protecting my whole life." So it, it makes sense that in the poetic structuring, the psychological effect would be more pronounced-

David: That's right. So that's why-

Seth: At the e- uh, in here

David: ... each of these moments of the, uh, the, the woman has in these visions or-

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah

David: ... you know, whatever you wanna call them, one is anticipating-

Seth: Uh-huh

David: ... the wedding night or the moment of consummation, and one is reflecting on how it felt.

Seth: And it's like, it makes sense that prior to, there would be hope-

David: Yep

Seth: ... optimism.

David: I'm gonna grab him. I'm a little scared, but I'm gonna grab him, and we're gonna do this.

Seth: Uh, yeah, like-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... naivete, and that what's-

David: After-

Seth: Is-

David: ... there's a brutal reality.

Seth: Is-

David: You know what it was like.

Seth: Or in just like, "Did I make the..." Regret.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Regrets-

David: All the vulnerabilities on the line.

Seth: You can only have regret after the fact.

David: That's right.

Seth: You can't have, like- [chuckles] pre-regret.

David: That's right.

Seth: Yeah. [chuckles]

David: And I don't know if regret is in here, but it is violent.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And it, it is violent. Like, "They beat me and bruised me.

Seth: Mm.

David: They took away my veil."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: That veil, like, that thing that like, the veil. Like, you know, a woman wears a veil-

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah

David: ... over her face as a sign of her purity before her husband. The thing, "I've got one last thing to keep from you, and it is my body," and now that veil's been ripped away, and she's no longer a virgin of Israel, and she's left there vulnerable. But then remember what we were, what we talked about. Um, right after this, you enter back down the mountain into the songs, and, and I think it's important... Before we go to the mountaintop-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... I think it's important to see where do we go after this?

Seth: Yeah.

David: How do we get from this brutal reality of the loss of this priceless thing that she's protected for so long, her virginity, how do we go from that to, "Hey, we're, we're gushing over each other again" at the end of the [chuckles] at the end of the song? Well, there's-

Seth: Yeah, and like-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... and you've mentioned before, vulner- she's vulnerable. Like-

David: So vulnerable.

Seth: She's vulnerable. She's bruised-

David: Yes

Seth: ... and will anyone, and the, the-

David: "Will I still be accepted and loved and found beautiful now that I'm no longer a virgin?"

Seth: Right.

David: I mean, incredibly vulnerable questions.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And so she actually now has a conversation with the, uh, the q- the choir, the-

Seth: Mm

David: ... the daughters of Jerusalem. Now, it's helpful to remember, this is not a drama. This is a song, and so she doesn't then leave the marriage bed mid-coitus and go talk to these women.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: This is all a song. It's all an experience.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: She's thinking about this as, you know, it's reflecting on her thoughts as it was happening. So right after she, uh, ha- explains that she's been beaten and bruised and that they've taken away her veil, she, she adjures the daughters of Jerusalem. She begs them that they help her find her beloved, and when they do, tell him that she is sick with love, and so she, she-

Seth: Is that a positive thing or a negative thing?

David: [chuckles] Yes. [laughing]

Seth: Oh. [laughing]

David: Yes.

Seth: Yeah.

David: I think, I think anybody can relate to that idea-

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah

David: ... as like, "Oh, it's good to be drunk with love," you know, and, and, and intoxicated with it, but also, like, it can-

Seth: There's no, there's no, like, mental anguish quite like-

David: Like-

Seth: ... "Does my... Are we really on the same page?"

David: Yes.

Seth: Like, does-

David: Right.

Seth: Was that the right... Yeah.

David: This love has made me sick.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: Yes. Then the beloved, or the, the, uh, daughters of Jerusalem answer-

Seth: Mm

David: ... and they say, "Well, who is your beloved? What makes him so good that you should continue to search for him after such a beating-

Seth: Mm

David: ... you know, or such, like, a loss of virginity? Like, why... W- who is he?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Tell, tell us who he is. Like, who are we looking for here?" And then right after having her veil torn away and her virginity taken, verse 10 of chapter 5: "My beloved is radiant and ruddy, distinguished among 10,000.

Seth: Mm.

David: His head is the finest gold, his locks are wavy, black as a raven."

Seth: Mm.

David: And she goes on and on, gushing over who her beloved is.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And so this is, this is helpful to think about, that in this darkest moment-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... she's asked to remember, "Who is your beloved? Who is it that took your virginity away from you?

Seth: Mm.

David: Who is it that put you in this spot?"

Seth: And it's this, this beautiful man that loves me.

David: He's this man that I love-

Seth: Mm

David: ... that is so good and is so worthy of my love, and he's the one I fell in love with.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And, like, so she reaffirms-

Seth: Okay

David: ... the identity of the husband, and his goodness, and his beauty, and like-

Seth: Mm

David: ... h- her right, right choice-

Seth: Mm

David: ... her wise choice in putting such a priceless thing into his hands.

Seth: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

David: And so she gushes over him, and then they ask another question, and this is just so beautiful. They ask this question: "Well, where is your beloved? We know who he is-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... but where is he? You says he's- you said he's gone."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "Right? You sought him and found him not. He's not here." So, v- uh, chapter 6, verse 1, "So where has your beloved gone, O most beautiful among women? Where has your beloved turned, that we may seek him with you?" And then she answers this way, verse 2 of chapter 6: "My beloved has gone down to his garden, to the bed of spices, to graze in the gardens and to gather lilies. I am my beloved's, and my beloved is mine.

Seth: Mm.

David: He grazes among the lilies." So she says... They, they say, "Where is your beloved?"

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "He's right here with me."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "Right now, we're unified in the act-

Seth: Mm, mm-hmm

David: ... intercourse right now-

Seth: Yeah.

David: - and he's grazing in the lilies. He's, he's right here with me.

Seth: Yeah.

David: He never left.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: He- so I know who he is now, and I know that he actually never abandoned me.

Seth: In the moment when her, the loss of her virginity threatens her with shame, it kind of personified by this chorus of people-

David: Yes

Seth: ... "Well, who is your lover really?"

David: Right.

Seth: "Or where is he really?"

David: Where did he go?

Seth: In the mo- same moment her virginity's being lost, and she's being tempted with shame-

David: Yes

Seth: ... the presence of her lover is proving none of those things are true.

David: Well, a- yes, absolutely.

Seth: Yes.

David: And in, in her moment of loss, she realizes what she's gained.

Seth: Mm.

David: "So I've lost all this." "Well, then where's your lover?" "He's here," and, and le- and then the next thing that happens-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... is the husband sings his longest song over his beloved.

Seth: That she truly is loved.

David: Yes.

Seth: She hasn't made a mistake.

David: That's right.

Seth: There is-

David: You-

Seth: - safety and-

David: That's right

Seth: ... protection for her.

David: "You are, you are beautiful as Tirzah, my love, lovely as Jerusalem, awesome as an army with banners." And he, he, he takes everything he said previously-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... repeats a lot of it, but exponentially more, like gushes even more on it. And, and so it's amazing to see that in this moment of potential shame, potential vulnerability, "Will I be enough? Will I be found beautiful? Will I, will I expose myself?"

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "Will I take the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good [chuckles] and evil-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and be found naked, and shameful, and wanting? 'Cause I've now awakened love."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Which is what she warns the daughters, the virgins not to do.

Seth: And that say, "Do not lose virginity?" Is that what that means?

David: I think they're playing with those ideas.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: "Do not awaken love until it's ready. Do not eat of the fru- the t- tree of the knowledge of good and evil-

Seth: Mm

David: ... until it's time." Like, these, these two ideas, and what happened whenever you- they took the tree of the knowledge of good and evil early, they were exposed in their shame, and they hid. Instead, now sh- when it's taken at the proper time, she's sound- she's found as beautiful and lacks shame.

Seth: Yeah. There's a jump there that I'm-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... still processing. So why should we think about the loss of virginity as a moment to recapitulate at, the Adam and Eve story?

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like, I, I was like, I was like, "I think I can kind of get there." There's a moment of, like, great importance in the loss of virginity.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like, talk to me about that.

David: Uh, and so there's a couple things happening here. One is it's, it's a reverse-

Seth: Mm

David: ... of the shame that came with the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Seth: Mm.

David: The man and the woman were in front of each other, and they were ashamed of their nakedness.

Seth: Okay.

David: So now in the highest moment of vulnerability, where it seems like all her protection is lost, the v- the last shred of something covering her up, her veil of virginity, is removed, and there is literally nothing left between her and her husband that will keep her from being found out and unprotected. At the moment when that's removed, instead of her eyes being opened, her husband's eyes being opened and experiencing shame and nakedness, which is what happened in the Eden story, his eyes are opened to her beauty, and he gushes all the more.

Seth: Mm.

David: So there, there's one reason.

Seth: It's like a, a reversal-

David: It's a reversal-

Seth: ... of the curse

David: ... of the fall.

Seth: Mm.

David: Also, though, I think with the warning that she issues three times to the-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... daughters of Jerusalem, "I adjure you, O daughters of Jerusalem, do not stir up or awaken love until it so desires," that she's pulling on this idea of the early eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that happened in the Garden of Eden, that they, they were not supposed to eat of it until its proper time. 'Cause that's not, that's not in Genesis, that idea of, like, "Wait around a while, and then you'll get to eat the fruit of the tree."

Seth: Mm.

David: But Jewish tradition holds that that was the idea, that God would walk with them in the garden, train them in the ways of wisdom, and eventually, they would eat from the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and they would be wise and eternal, just like him.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But they ate too soon and brought death and shame into the world.

Seth: Interesting.

David: And so she's like, "Hey, don't eat the fruit too early, or you'll experience death and shame."

Seth: It's fascinating to me just to think about sex, like, and, and like m- like sex in marriage as a reversal of the fall-

David: Yes

Seth: ... and a reversal of the curse. Like, that's-

David: Absolutely

Seth: ... fascinating.

David: And I think that is a bit of the wisdom of what's being-

Seth: Mm

David: ... brought in here as wisdom literature. Because wisdom literature, the idea of wisdom is that-

Seth: Mm

David: ... it moves with the grain of the universe, that, "God formed the world with wisdom," is what he says in Proverbs.

Seth: Mm.

David: That he, before the world existed-

Seth: Mm

David: ... he made Lady Wisdom. [chuckles]

Seth: Yeah.

David: And through Lady Wisdom, he made the world, and, and the world bears her fingerprints. And so whenever we accord with acting in the way that Lady Wisdom would act, um, we actually enter back into the grain of the universe, the way the world is supposed to work. And so Adam and Eve, in their actions, went against the grain of the universe and brought shame and brokenness into the world. But it's interesting that actually when we enter into a shameless, [chuckles] you know, in a way-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... like a, a, a re- a relationship without shame, that we actually can kind of bring Eden into our bedrooms as married couples. Or also, I also wanna say, or by protecting your virginity as these daughters of Jerusalem.

Seth: Mm-mm, mm-hmm.

David: Like, being in the garden and not taking the fruit or taking the fruit of it at its proper time are both ways to be wise in the garden.

Seth: Man, I mean, this is me now reflecting on wisdom literature.

David: Mm.

Seth: So if sex, mar- like, sex in marriage is one way the shame of the curse can be reversed, it then makes sense why folly is promiscuity.

David: Yes.

Seth: Why Lady Folly is a woman constantly a- beckoning men to awaken love before it's time, to have sex-

David: Mm

Seth: ... with her, to sleep with her, to-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... to, to, to do, to... So, uh, it's interesting, then-

David: It is

Seth: ... that-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... the way the curse in the world is perpetuated in Solomon's literature elsewhere is through promiscuity with Lady Folly-

David: Yes

Seth: ... rather than monogamy with Lady Wisdom. [chuckles]

David: Yes. And I think before we go to the summit of the mountain here-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and land the plane on this, on this episode, I think right here is a really good moment to talk to people who are sexually broken or would think-

Seth: Mm

David: ... of themselves as sexually broken.... uh, which might be [chuckles] the majority of listeners.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Because that could be you, you've used pornography-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... habitually. You, maybe you've been through a, a bad divorce, and you wonder-

Seth: Mm

David: ... like, "Did I miss Solomon's wisdom here?" Maybe you had extramarital sex. Maybe you were a victim of rape or incest or some kind of sexual brokenness, and I think that this part of the song has just beautiful truth for you, i- if that's you, in any of those categories. If you're a man who's habitually been addicted to pornography, you can resonate with the woman here saying, like, "I have utterly broken my virginity, like, my innocence. Like, the purity that I have before others and God has just been tarnished and beaten. Will I still be able to be found lovely and beautiful and acceptable?" Um, if you're a woman and you've gone through sexual trauma, you might think, "There's nothing I have to offer now to a man or to God. I've been ruined. I've been broken. I've been abused. No one will be able to find me lovely again." And I just think this song also speaks to that reality and says that both a human man that's acting wisely and also your divine Father-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... can come to you after that beating and bruising-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and speak to you like this husband did.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And say, "No, you are beautiful above all else, son or daughter." Like, [chuckles] "I treasure you. I love you."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "I, I, I will not neglect you. I will not put you away. I'll stay right here with you." And, and so it's just like, I think that's really important-

Seth: Mm

David: ... to say here in this moment-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... because a lot of people have not gone through-

Seth: Right

David: ... a marriage relationship as cleanly as this woman and man did.

Seth: Right.

David: [chuckles] Right.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And, uh, and it, it's... So you have to-

Seth: And more often than not, we don't enter into our mar- nobody does.

David: Completely flawless, like, I mean, like, with, like, uh, if Jesus was the standard-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... of don't even lust after a woman-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... you know.

Seth: Or even just reading briefly the s- descriptions of this man and woman-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... where it seems as if like these are perfect people in their love for one another-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... and have no past at all.

David: Yeah.

Seth: I'm like, "Uh, man, yeah."

David: Has anyone-

Seth: Has anyone been close-

David: Ever

Seth: ... to the woman or the man in these stories?

David: That's right. Which is why it's wisdom literature.

Seth: Yeah.

David: It's this ideal.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Right? And so we have to bring the ideal and put it next to reality-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and say that there's this beautiful redemption that's happening here-

Seth: Mm

David: ... in the loss of innocence and the gaining of beauty.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: That through that death of virginity, there's life and acceptance.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And that, that is the transformation that can happen to anyone, no matter what your past is, that especially in Jesus-

Seth: Mm

David: ... He is the groom who can take us out of any death, even sexual death, and bring us into life and find us beautiful still.

Seth: Mm.

David: He can be this husband-

Seth: Mm

David: ... to you. So-

Seth: Yeah, that's the-

David: It's really important to say.

Seth: Right, and that's the way the, uh, the story of the Bible ends, right?

David: Yes.

Seth: In Revelation, you have Jesus, the groom, like wiping away the tears of our past-

David: Yes

Seth: ... and our shame and, like, welcoming him, welcoming us into his home.

David: Yeah.

Seth: You know, that's the end of the story.

David: That's right.

Seth: Um-

David: Yeah. The other thing to say here, too, is that I think the Song of Songs has regularly been used to reflect not only on sexual relationships or human relationships, uh, or broken sexuality, but also it has been a way to process through our relationship with God.

Seth: Mm-hmm. Yeah, we've mentioned it multiple times-

David: Yes

Seth: ... at this point. Yeah.

David: And w- and this, again, is another good moment to stop before we go to the mountain. [chuckles]

Seth: Yeah.

David: It's a good moment to stop and talk about how a lot of people, myself included, my very first book I ever wrote, I had a whole chapter reflecting on the Song of Songs-

Seth: Mm, mm

David: ... as it relates to the dark night of the soul.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: So there's this time in most [chuckles] Christians' lives, I might argue every Christian's life, where you feel like God is gone.

Seth: Mm.

David: And it might even be at the moment where you felt like you were supposed to be the most intimate.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, there was this moment of consummation, this moment of obedience, this moment of stepping out, this moment of maturity, where I thought-

Seth: Mm

David: ... we were gonna really nail it here, God. [chuckles]

Seth: Mm.

David: And you told me to do this thing or come to this place or obey you in this way or take this step, take this whatever.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So you-

Seth: You make a vulnerable sacrifice-

David: Move, yes

Seth: ... on your part, and then you're like, "Wait a second."

David: Where is God?

Seth: Yeah.

David: Where did He go? And this is a, this is a spiritual reality that so many people, myself included-

Seth: Mm

David: ... others included, have gone through. St. John of the Cross wrote about this-

Seth: Mm

David: ... in The Dark Night of the Soul, and I think it's so beautiful to walk through this as well, uh, The Dark Night of the Soul, with these realities in mind.

Seth: Mm.

David: That the moment of consummation, I looked for God, and He was nowhere to be found. Where was He?

Seth: Mm.

David: I feel alone and abused. Where did He go?

Seth: Mm.

David: Let me do the exercise that the daughters of Jerusalem and the, and the bride go through. Who is your husband? Who is God?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Well, no matter... Even though I feel abandoned and alone in this moment-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... who is He? He's radiant and ready. [chuckles] He's the husband-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... of all husbands. He's the God of all gods, the Lord of all lords. He's faithful. He's kind. He's attentive. He's patient.

Seth: He's-

David: He's with me. He's loving.

Seth: He's died for me.

David: He's died for me.

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David: Like, we can gush over God's identity-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... as an, kind of a, as an antidote-

Seth: Mm, mm

David: ... to the lies that the dark night of the soul can bring.

Seth: Mm, mm.

David: And then we can remind ourselves of the second question: Well, where is your beloved? He's right here. He's in me.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, like the communion with God has never stopped. The Holy Spirit-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... didn't stop indwelling me-

Seth: Right

David: ... whenever I have, have experienced this loneliness.

Seth: Yeah.

David: He is right here with me, and He has never stopped singing over me. And so I think it's also important to stop there and-

Seth: Mm

David: ... and kind of name the spiritual brokenness we go into as well in this time-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... 'cause it's just so visceral and helpful.

Seth: Yeah.

David: ... So that's the second tier.

Seth: Okay.

David: So we- we, uh, so the chiasm-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... right? We had the s- the, the confessions of love at the beginning and the end.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Then up a tier, we have the, the contemplation-

Seth: Contemplating

David: ... of the wedding bed.

Seth: Yes.

David: And we have anticipating it, and then reflecting upon it.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And then right in the middle, we get these two little verses. Uh, this is going to- we're gonna lead into it from 4:16. The g- the, the woman's garden is going to blow open.

Seth: Okay.

David: The doors are going to open to her garden-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and they're going to consummate. So 16, "Awake, north wind, and come, O south wind! Blow open my garden, let its spices flow." It's important to note here that, um, leading up to this, the, the husband has just described the woman as this unassailable tower.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: That she's got shields of David covering her-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and she's like a fortress. And he's like-

Seth: The watchmen have done their job. [laughs]

David: Yep, a-a- and also, "I will not take you. You have to let me in."

Seth: Ah. Mm-hmm.

David: Like, "The only way I can come into this fortress wisely-

Seth: Mm

David: ... is if you open up the garden to me."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "I, I cannot assail you."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "You are, you are too wise, and I am too wise-

Seth: Mm

David: ... for this to happen in any kind of broken or shameful," uh, or to use maybe a modern term, non-consensual way.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: So t-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... this is what precipitates-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... the, the highest moment. "I'm going to open up my garden and let my spices flow." Like, she's ready. Uh, sh- she's been sexually aroused, and she is now ready to give herself over to her husband. So, uh, the end of four is the, the highest moment. You get a line from the woman, a line from the man, and a line from the chorus. So you have, "Let my beloved come to his garden and eat its choicest fruit." And then he says, "I came to my garden, my sister, my bride; I gathered my myrrh with my spice. I ate my honeycomb with my honey, I drank my wine with my milk." And then the others say, "Eat, friends! Drink, and be drunk with love." And that is the mountaintop. That is the moment of consummation. You have this bride giving herself over to her husband, "Let my husband come and delight himself in me."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "Let him take the best, the thing that I have to offer to him."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "My choicest fruit is my virginity. It is my garden."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "Here it is. I've given it to him."

Seth: Yeah.

David: And then he says... I mean, he j- "I'm gonna get myrrh, this expensive thing, and all the spices." All the best things are used here, right? "I'm not just gonna have honey. I'm gonna just take a bite out of the honeycomb. Like, I'm gonna have it all. I'm gonna have the wine-

Seth: Mm

David: ... and the milk." Like, just-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... th- like, fat things and rich things, and it's just this-

Seth: It's-

David: ... beautiful expression of him knowing the cost, the value, the beauty of what he's receiving.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: He does not trivialize-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... what she has given to him in this moment. He heightens it-

Seth: Mm

David: ... to its uttermost, and then you get the endorsement of the community.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: That there's no scandal here. It's, it's done, you know, almost in public.

Seth: Mm.

David: It's obviously not done in public-

Seth: Right

David: ... but you have this societal chorus of how good-

Seth: This is a good thing

David: ... this is.

Seth: Yeah.

David: "Eat, friends! Drink. Be drunk with love."

Seth: Mm.

David: Like, this is a good thing you're doing-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and there's no shame at all in the whole world for it.

Seth: It's pretty cool.

David: It's the mountaintop-

Seth: That's the mountaintop

David: ... of Song of Songs, man.

Seth: That's really awesome. I-

David: So that's the song.

Seth: Okay. Man, I feel like I have so many quest- like, what... I was like, "Okay, I understand what Song of Songs is about."

David: Yep.

Seth: My questions are all now like, why on earth is this in the Bible?

David: Yes.

Seth: Why does this, like-

David: Yes

Seth: ... make sense of the Biblical story?

David: Yes.

Seth: How does this add to my understanding-

David: Yep

Seth: ... of what God is doing with Israel and with Jesus?

David: Right.

Seth: Like, those are all my que- I'm like, "Okay-

David: Yep

Seth: ... I think I understand what Song of Solomon's doing. I see some provocative hints. Oh, it's fascinating that the moment of consummation includes milk and honey-

David: Right

Seth: ... just like the land of-

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... uh, of Canaan was filled with milk and-

David: Fascinating

Seth: ... so my-

David: Yep.

Seth: Okay. Um-

David: [laughs] So yes, y-

Seth: Yeah.

David: That means I've done my job.

Seth: Well, great.

David: Because this is exactly where I wanted our next episode to go is-

Seth: Awesome

David: ... we understand the book. I think we've let it done- do its work to us now. I think we've seen it in a clear way. Now, let's ask the canonical question: Why is this in the Bible? And we're gonna talk about that-

Seth: Okay

David: ... in our next episode.

Seth: Well, thank you, David.

David: Yes. [laughs]

Seth: This was super enlightening. I really appreciate it. Thank you, guys, for listening, and we would love to see you next time in our next episode, in our final episode, in the Song of Songs. [upbeat music]

Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel creates short films, devotionals, and podcasts like this one. Everything we make is free because of generous supporters like you. To see our resources, visit spokengospel.com or subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. See you next time. [upbeat music]

Related Resources

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The Honeymoon Night: Understanding the Structure and Meaning of Song of Songs

Show Notes

The Chiastic Structure: A Literary Mountain

Declarations of Love: The Mountain's Foundation

Contemplating the Marriage Bed: Fear and Vulnerability

After Consummation: Bruised but Beautiful

Reversing the Fall: Eden in the Bedroom

The Summit and the Song's Wider Message

Related Resources

Introduction to Song of Songs

View our devotional on Song of Songs 1:1-6

Ready to study a different book?

Listen to the Song of Songs Overview podcast

Listen to the Song of Songs Overview: The Honeymoon Night podcast

Listen to the Song of Songs Overview: The Song and Jesus podcast