Spoken Gospel podcast with a photo of David and Seth

1 Peter 2:13-3:7: Submission as Citizens, Slaves, and Spouses

About This Episode

Peter has told us we are spiritual exiles by our relationship with Jesus. But that also means we are alienated from our physical countries, jobs, and wives. How are followers of Jesus supposed to act when their most central relationships treat them unjustly? Seth and David talk about resurrection hope for people who are powerless in their countries, jobs, and marriages.

Listen Now Read Show Notes

Listen On

Apple Podcasts Youtube Spotify

Submission as Citizens, Slaves, and Spouses: The Costly Freedom of God's Kingdom 1 Peter 2:13–3:7

Show Notes

David and Seth continue their series through 1 Peter by tackling one of the most difficult sections in the letter: Peter's instructions on submission to governing authorities, masters, and husbands. The conversation is marked by an honest, sober awareness that these verses have been misused throughout history, paired with a deep commitment to understanding what Peter actually meant when he wrote to first-century Christians living under Roman rule.

Exiles Who Are Free to Serve

Before diving into the specific instructions Peter gives to citizens, slaves, and wives, the episode grounds itself in verse 16, which serves as the theological engine behind everything that follows. Peter tells his readers to "live as people who are free," which seems like a strange thing to say in a passage about submission to authority. But Peter's vision of freedom is not the modern Western idea of absolute autonomy, where the highest good is the ability to make any choice at any moment without external pressure. Instead, the freedom Peter describes is freedom from something: freedom from sin, from darkness, from alienation from God, from the diminishing returns of serving money, power, and pleasure.

This freedom, however, does not leave a person unattached. It binds them to a new master. The word Peter uses for "servants of God" is actually harsher than the word he will use for household servants later in the passage. It is the word for a slave. The parallel to Romans 6 is unmistakable: everyone is enslaved to something, and the Gospel announces that those who trust in Jesus have been transferred from slavery to sin into slavery to righteousness. The good news is not that you become your own boss, but that the master who now owns you is good. The hope Peter offers is that one day sin will be fully eradicated, and God's people will be unable to harm themselves or anyone else ever again. That is what it means to be "owned by goodness," and that is what makes slavery to God genuinely good news.

Citizens Under Caesar's Shadow

Peter's first practical example of what this free servanthood looks like is the relationship between Christian citizens and the Roman Empire. The historical context is critical. Christians in the cities of Asia Minor were being viewed with deep suspicion by their pagan neighbors and governors. They were calling someone named Jesus "King" and "Lord," titles that belonged to Caesar. The surrounding culture saw them as a disruption to the social order, a threat to the common good.

Peter's instruction is not to rebel or to cower, but to live such undeniably good lives that the accusations against Christians collapse under their own weight. "By doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people" (1 Peter 2:15). The model for this is Jesus himself, who was arrested and brought before governing authorities, and yet no accusation could stick. Even when false witnesses were rallied against him, they could not agree. It took a mob pressuring a weak governor to bring about his crucifixion. Jesus lived the most countercultural life in human history and yet was above reproach. Peter calls his readers to the same kind of life, one where the surrounding culture cannot point a finger at them for wrongdoing, even as they live as citizens of a completely different Kingdom.

An important distinction emerges in the conversation about the difference between Peter's audience and modern Western democracies. Roman citizens had no right to assembly, no freedom of religion, no ability to vote or legislate. Peter is writing to people with virtually no political agency. The instruction to submit and to do good in the face of hostility is not a blanket prohibition against standing up for justice in every context. Where Christians do have agency, the calculus is different. Peter is not writing to a Western democracy. He is writing to people whose only real options are to respond to persecution with hatred or to entrust themselves to the God who judges justly.

Slaves, Suffering, and the Body of Christ

The passage moves next to household servants, and the conversation takes on a weight that both hosts acknowledge openly. Historically, texts like this one were weaponized in the antebellum South to justify race-based chattel slavery and the torture of enslaved people, a use that was wicked and evil and a grotesque distortion of what Peter actually wrote. At the same time, the passage cannot simply be discarded because it has been misused, any more than the Gospel itself should be discarded because televangelists have exploited it.

In Peter's context, a household servant who converted to Christianity was committing an act of social rebellion simply by worshiping a different god than the head of the household. The entire Roman family structure required religious uniformity, and a servant who broke that norm was unraveling the fabric of society in the eyes of the Roman patron. Peter's instruction is not passive resignation but a deeply purposeful way of living. If a servant does wrong and is punished, that is unremarkable. But if a servant does good and still suffers for it, enduring that injustice with grace becomes what Peter calls "a gracious thing in the sight of God" (1 Peter 2:20). The idea is that this kind of innocent suffering, modeled on the suffering of Jesus himself, has the power to expose the wickedness of the oppressor and ultimately to change hearts.

Peter roots this entire ethic in the cross. "Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his footsteps" (1 Peter 2:21). When Jesus was reviled, he did not revile in return. When he suffered, he did not threaten. He bore sins "in his body on the tree," and that phrase is not incidental. Peter is speaking to people being beaten in their bodies, and he tells them that Jesus knows what that is like. He dignifies the slave by placing Jesus in the same position, not by telling the master that Jesus was a powerful ruler like him. The quotation from Isaiah 53, "by his wounds you have been healed," is a promise directed specifically to those who are suffering. Peter even reorders the narrative of Isaiah 53 to match the chronological sequence of Jesus's passion, weaving the suffering servant hymn into the story of the cross itself. The passage closes with the image of straying sheep who have returned to their Shepherd, language that would have been deeply personal for Peter, who denied Jesus during his suffering and was later restored with the command to "feed my sheep."

Wives, Husbands, and the Power of Christlike Presence

The third and final use case Peter addresses is the relationship between Christian wives and their pagan husbands. The cultural backdrop is essential. Roman law and custom required wives to follow the religion of their husbands. Legislation was being passed specifically to prevent women from adopting religions different from their household's, partly in response to cults of Bacchus and Isis that were attracting women. A Christian wife in this setting was not just having a disagreement with her spouse about Sunday mornings. She was breaking the law and threatening the very structure of Roman society.

Peter's instruction to these wives is to remain in their marriages and to conduct themselves in such a way that their husbands "may be won without a word" (1 Peter 3:1). He tells them not to focus on external adornment, the braided hair, gold jewelry, and fine clothing that marked a Roman wife's role as a display of her husband's status, but to put on the "imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit" (1 Peter 3:4). The word "imperishable" is the same word Peter used earlier for the seed of God's word and for the inheritance that cannot fade. Peter is telling these women to adorn themselves with the clothing of a new Kingdom, the garments of a better Husband.

Peter then references Sarah and Abraham, which at first glance appears to be a straightforward proof text for patriarchy. But a closer look at the Genesis narrative complicates that reading significantly. The only time Sarah calls Abraham "lord" in Scripture is in Genesis 18:12, and it is a sarcastic remark about whether her aging husband can give her a child. Genesis never says Sarah obeyed Abraham. In fact, Abraham is explicitly told to obey Sarah on three occasions. The story that most closely fits Peter's description is when Abraham, acting faithlessly, tells Sarah to pretend to be his sister so that he will not be killed. Sarah goes along with this deception, and God uses her compliance despite Abraham's disobedience to protect his people and teach Abraham a lesson. That is the kind of situation Peter is addressing: a faithful wife submitting to an unfaithful husband, trusting that God can bring redemptive change even through an impossible power imbalance.

A Word to Husbands and the Heart of the Gospel

Peter saves his exhortation to husbands for last, which in the ancient world would have been a striking reversal. Household codes were written to the man of the house first. By addressing citizens, slaves, and wives before husbands, Peter is doing something countercultural in the very structure of his letter. His instruction to husbands is to "live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life" (1 Peter 3:7). The word "honor" is the same word used earlier to describe God's chosen, precious people. Peter tells husbands to treat their wives as co-heirs, as royalty in the Kingdom of God, not as objects to be dominated.

Whether the husband in view has a believing or unbelieving wife, the point is the same. Power is not given to be wielded over others but to be laid down in the pattern of Jesus. The entire passage, from citizens to slaves to wives to husbands, carries a single unified message: the way God's Kingdom advances is not through domination, rebellion, or self-protection, but through costly, Christlike obedience that does not make sense by the world's standards. A marriage in Edmond, Oklahoma, should not be able to change the world. A slave doing good under an unjust master should have no lasting impact. A wife quietly living out her faith under a hostile husband should accomplish nothing. And yet Peter insists, because Jesus rose from the dead, that these small acts of faithful presence carry resurrection power. The powerless, by acting like the Christ who suffered and rose, push back darkness and extend the Kingdom of God into the kingdom of the empire.

Transcript

Intro: Welcome to the Spoken Gospel Podcast. Spoken Gospel is a ministry that's dedicated to speaking the gospel out of every corner of scripture. In Luke 24, Jesus told his disciples that every part of the Bible was about him. So each week, hosts David and Seth work through a passage of scripture to see how it's all about Jesus and his good news. Let's jump in.

David: Well, welcome everyone to the Spoken Gospel Podcast. Seriously, thank you so much for joining us. My co-host Seth is here with me. How you feeling, Seth?

Seth: And I'm feeling—

David: you're feeling—

Seth: I'm feeling the, uh, the title My Bible puts for this section is Submission to Authority.

David: My favorite topic.

Seth: Yeah, one, because I love submitting to other people.

David: I love it.

Seth: That's my favorite. So humble. Submission is no problem. Don't want to be autonomous. Uh, but also because it talks about submission to the government, slaves being submissive to their masters and wives submitting to their husbands.

David: Lots of, lots of—

Seth: and husbands being submissive to their wives.

David: Lots of hot topics.

Seth: So it's just, it's a,

David: it's a live conversation.

Seth: It's a live conversation on many levels.

David: Yes.

Seth: Uh, and I am excited to talk about it, but also just feel a fair degree of like, yes. Sober sobriety.

David: Sober sobriety.

Seth: Sober sobriety. Not just sobriety.

David: Even my sobriety is sober.

Seth: My sobriety.

David: Okay, so we are in 1 Peter. This is on our third episode in 1 Peter. We did an introduction where we talked about chapter 1. Uh, last week we talked about 1 Peter chapter 2, about being holy temples and the holy people. And now we are talking about holy living.

Seth: Yeah, right. 1 Peter 2:1-12. Ends as us being royal priests. And then he says two things that those royal priests are supposed to do. One, they're supposed to proclaim the excellencies of the God who brought us out of darkness. And two, we're supposed to live differently than the Gentiles around us. We're to keep our conduct honorable so that when they speak against us as evildoers, they will see our good deeds and glorify God of the day of visitation.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So there's something really apologetic that's happening in this moment as we move into—

David: what do you mean by that?

Seth: It means that as Peter is talking about Christians submitting to authority, he wants our submission to authority to address the— his culture's view of Christians. His culture's view of Christians was that they were anti the established authority, that they were going against the grain of what was good for society. And so he's talking to them, saying, no, you need to act in such a way that your Gentile overlords, your Gentile husbands, your Gentile masters, your Gentile governors can't point a finger at you and say you've done something wrong.

David: You're ruining our society.

Seth: Right, right. That's, that's the context in which he's speaking. And there's a fair— and the assumption is that there's a fair degree of suspicion on behalf of the governments and ruling people about Christianity's influence in their society.

David: Yeah. Okay. So can we lean into that background a little bit?

Seth: Sure.

David: Okay. Because I think this is going to be really helpful to make sure we have the background the historical moment that Peter's addressing in this episode. And so we're talking about some cities in Asia Minor that you have these Gentile populations in, and now they're becoming Christians. And because they're Christians, they're starting to live differently than the, than the norm, the cultural norms that are there, and the surrounding cultures, their neighbors, their governors, their established orders are becoming suspicious about this Christian movement.

Seth: Yeah, what do we— yeah, pagan governors ask, what do we do with these Christians who are calling somebody named Jesus King, Lord, right?

David: What about Caesar?

Seth: What about Caesar? Isn't he God? Isn't he Lord? Right? Christian masters are looking at a Bible full of stories about liberation from slavery. And they are persecuting their slaves. And how are slaves supposed to respond? Yeah, you have Roman husbands who by all accounts, have the most power in ancient society, and who expect their wives to follow their religion, no longer following the religion of the household, but their own religion.

David: Now you have— yeah, you have wives following a different religion than their husbands. And that was forbidden by law, wasn't it?

Seth: There was legislation being passed that did not allow women to have a different religion, because there was a religion to Bacchus and the Egyptian goddess Isis that were particularly prone to attracting women. And so there was like legislation that Rome was pushing down so women couldn't have a different religion than their husband.

David: Okay.

Seth: And so you have that happening in the background. So what's a Christian wife to do? What's a Christian slave to do? What's a Christian citizen to do?

David: Right.

Seth: When the authority figures are against them and persecuting them.

David: Yep. Uh, and yeah, and then, so all that's happening and then at the same time, so that's kind of what the outside world is asking. And then internally, there's the question of like, how am I supposed to be a set-apart people in this world? I'm, I'm an exile. That's the, that's the prevailing metaphor for foreigners in their marriage.

Seth: They're exiles in their government.

David: I don't belong anywhere.

Seth: Yep.

David: And yet I'm supposed to be a light to this place. I'm supposed to like be a holy presence and like be a living priest to these people around me and help them encounter the God of the universe. How can I do that when I'm so marginalized? So foreign, so estranged and exiled that like, I just don't belong anywhere. I have no sense of place. Like, how am I supposed to live in this complex reality I've found myself in?

Seth: Yeah. And so we could start with verse 13, like Peter wants us to in this new section. But I think it might be helpful to go to verse 16 first. Okay. And this is kind of his concluding sentence. As he talks about honoring the emperor. But he says this: live as a people. He just called us a chosen people, a special possession of God's people who are free. We are free in God. We are free in Jesus.

David: Yeah. Which is like a strange thing to say right after saying like, okay, you need to like submit to the emperor. It is a Caesar. It's a live is free wink, right?

Seth: Yes, we will get there.

David: Okay.

Seth: So live as people who are free. We're not free. We're free from sin. We're free from darkness. We're free from alienation from God. We're free from having received no mercy, but now we receive mercy. Like, we're free from a lot of things. But don't use your freedom as a cover-up for evil. Oh, I'm allowed to do that, right? But living as servants of God. So Peter takes our citizenship in the free country. Of God's kingdom as the necessary connection to living in the free country of God's kingdom is being living servants of God, which I think is just really interesting. You've already pointed out like, why are you talking about freedom in a passage that's just connected to submission to authorities? Well, I think it's because Peter sees living in God's kingdom as primarily a freedom that's bound up in submission.

David: Right. So what you're saying is you've been freed to be a slave?

Seth: Yeah. Yeah. And I was going to ask, is that the same word slave that they use in just a second to describe slaves and masters?

David: I can look really quickly.

Seth: I was going to do the same.

David: Well, let's see here. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's different. This is actually, in a sense, a harsher term. So it's not like the household servant. This is the doulos, like the slave. Slave. So it's even— could be even one-upping the type of servitude he'll talk about socially here in a second. I mean, this just makes me think about— I'm not trying to, like, draw unnecessary comparisons, but it makes me think about Romans 6 really clearly. Yes. Which is just like, you are either a slave to sin or a slave to God. Everyone's a slave to sin. But those who put their faith in Jesus have been set free from their slavery to sin in order that they might become slaves to righteousness, slaves to God. So you're going to be slaves to something.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Do you want it to be sin or do you want to be God? And so the idea of freedom in the kingdom of God is a freedom from sin, but that sells you to a new good master, God.

Seth: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I think, I think a lot of scholars and commentators have picked up on the fact that this is actually a true, a real statement about life. Everybody's enslaved. We just don't always recognize it as such.

David: Okay.

Seth: And so the Bible is doing something where it's saying, okay, you think you're free in being a Roman man and being a liberated woman and being whoever, but you're really enslaved to something bigger than you. Right. And it will give you diminishing returns and it'll eat you alive one day. It's kind of like, that's the way. And like, there's a whole, even like non-Christians.

David: Totally.

Seth: Talk about this reality. Like you serve money, power, sex, it'll eat you alive one day.

David: Totally.

Seth: Serve beauty, it will kill you by a thousand cuts. Yeah, like that's, that's David Foster Wallace.

David: Yeah.

Seth: There's that reality happening too. Everyone's a master to something, right? Christianity says, okay, that's true, we're all slaves to someone, but we're slaves to the King of Freedom, right? So we live as slaves to him.

David: So he's saying like a mark of being a citizen of this kingdom that has made you an exile in your own home is that you are free to be a slave.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Okay. So then what does that look like then from a practical standpoint about your relationship to the government? You know, slaves to the masters and wives to their husbands.

Seth: Can I ask a different question? Definitely. Just like, I want to camp out on the idea of like free to be a slave.

David: Okay.

Seth: Why is that good news?

David: Hmm.

Seth: So Romans 6, right?

David: Yeah.

Seth: Free from sin. That's good news. I don't have to bow to sex, money, and power as my ultimate god. But like, why is it good news that I'm a slave to righteousness? Right. A slave, a living servant to God.

David: Like, yeah, I mean, my— I have an answer.

Seth: Okay.

David: Um, uh, so we, we think that he— the only reason this is a question is because we live in an age where absolute autonomy and libertarianism is, is, is the, is the ultimate good. That if I can make any choice I want at any given moment without any external pressure, I am free. And that is our understanding of freedom. The Bible kind of demonizes that, that version of freedom and says anytime you have that, that kind of freedom, be it ever so illusory, you will make the wrong choice. Adam and Eve in the garden, right?

Seth: Right.

David: When they had the ability to choose good or evil, they chose evil.

Seth: Yeah.

David: We do the same thing every single day because we're slaves to sin. And so the only way to escape our preternatural disposition, our bent towards sin, toward always falling into the traps we set for ourselves, the only escape is to become enslaved to righteousness. To actually have sin ripped out of us, to, to finally get to a point where we can't sin anymore. And that's the good news. The good news of what Jesus has done for us by conquering sin on the cross ultimately will manifest itself in heaven as not being able to sin.

Seth: Yeah.

David: As being free from sin so that you can be enslaved to goodness.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So that you no longer can harm yourself like you no longer can hurt you or the world around you or those you love. And it's like, you are owned by goodness.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And that's good news to me. That's really good news.

Seth: No, that is good. And I think it's helpful. Like, take all the cultural commentary, take all of like, you're a slave to beauty or money or sex or power. It's like, take all that off the table. I want to be a better husband. Yeah. But find myself continually hamstrung by myself.

David: Right.

Seth: I wanna be a better father. I wanna be a better neighbor. I wanna be a better friend. And that does not happen. The speed or with the frequency or the consistency that I want.

David: Yes.

Seth: I want to be a slave to righteousness because right now I'm— I seem to be a slave to the opposite of being a good father, husband, friend.

David: Yeah. I would love it for it just to just overtake me and like, make me a good person. And that's what the gospel will do and is doing through sanctification. And so, yeah, that's my thoughts.

Seth: And okay. So that's good news. Why is being a slave to something actually freedom?

David: Mm.

Seth: Does that make sense? Yeah. It's like, okay, I know it now. I know why being a slave is good news, but how is that actually freedom?

David: Uh, I don't know if it needs to be.

Seth: Okay.

David: You've been set free to be a slave is not the same thing as slavery being freedom. Yeah.

Seth: I'm looking at just Peter, live as people who are free.

David: Uh-huh.

Seth: So that's what I'm like trying to live in for a second. So what does freedom mean here then? If it's good news to be a slave, how is being a slave freedom? Or are we just making two texts talk to each other that shouldn't?

David: Well, it's like you're living as people who are free. You are free from the rule of the emperor. Like, yeah, you have a different king, a different nationality. You're free from that. You have a bigger badder, you know, not in an evil sense, like a stronger king has overtaken Caesar.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And you serve him now. You're free from Caesar, but don't use that freedom as a coverup for evil. Right.

Seth: Uh, right.

David: Instead, like, be a slave to me.

Seth: Okay.

David: And so like, I think we are being freed from something to be enslaved to something else. Yeah.

Seth: I think I have probably a really weird American conception of freedom where it's just like, Freedom. Heck yeah, I can go and do whatever I want on the out— out in the frontier. Like, that's kind of like this weird nebulous sense of freedom.

David: Yes.

Seth: But that's— freedom is actually freedom from something else.

David: Yes.

Seth: You can't just have freedom.

David: That's what I always— when I get into conversations with people and they talk about freedom as an American construct, that's always a question I ask them, is freedom from what?

Seth: Yeah.

David: What are you talking about?

Seth: Yeah.

David: And most of the time they cannot give me an answer. Because the things they list exist in most other countries.

Seth: Right.

David: So I can go where I want. You can in Spain too.

Seth: Yeah.

David: I don't know what you're talking about. Not to, I'm not trying to crap on American freedom or anything.

Seth: No.

David: But it is, it's, we have to understand that it's not a nebulous idea. We're talking about you have been actually freed from something, from the oppression of the Roman government and Caesar being your lord to force you to worship pagan gods.

Seth: Yeah. Spiritually you were enslaved to Rome, to the powers, to sin.

David: Yes.

Seth: But now you're exiled from there. You're no longer bound by them. You're free from them. So what happens when you're actually still physically a servant of Rome?

David: Yeah.

Seth: You're still an actual slave to your master. Yeah. And under the thumb of your pagan husband.

David: Yeah.

Seth: What do you do then?

David: What do you do then?

Seth: If the spiritual reality is you're free.

David: Yeah.

Seth: What do you do when you're still in servitude? Yeah.

David: Do you rebel against your master? Do you divorce your husband? Do do you form a coup against the emperor? You know, and this is where it starts to get like, this is when now all the listeners are going, what are you going to say?

Seth: So let's get into verse— let's go back now.

David: Okay, verse 13.

Seth: Verse 13. So be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be the emperor as supreme or to governors sent by him to punish those who do evil and praise those who do good. This is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. So that's the first command. So the first, obviously when you're talking about exiles and foreigners, like the national is clearly the first place you would go. So what does it, how does a Christian citizen relate to their pagan emperor?

David: Oh man.

Seth: For David, this is a loaded—

David: this is a very loaded question for me.

Seth: It's a loaded conversation.

David: Yes. I mean, okay. What I immediately think of though is Daniel. I immediately think of Daniel and like, he was able to live as a free slave in Babylon. Yep. You know, he found a way to, like, live separately from Babylonian opulence and worship of false idols and everything like that while still maintaining a pretty good relationship with the king. Yeah, it's just like that's what my mind went.

Seth: Yeah.

David: As like a good narrative example of what we're talking about.

Seth: The first thing I thought of too here is that by doing good, you put to silence the ignorance of foolish people.

David: Yes.

Seth: It goes back to the apologetic thrust of what we're talking about here. There's a skepticism, a distrust of, a hostility towards Christians that could make it easy for us to want to respond in kind.

David: Yes.

Seth: But there's a way to act in that situation that will make all those arguments seem like ignorance.

David: Right.

Seth: We can, relate to our government in such a way that no one could accuse us of being insubordinate, right? But still citizens of a new kingdom.

David: Yes. The perfect example I can think of for this is Jesus.

Seth: Okay.

David: Okay. Jesus was arrested, taken before governing authorities, and they could not make an accusation stick on him. He had lived such a perfect life that even when they rallied false witnesses, The witnesses couldn't agree. The witnesses couldn't agree. And the king ended up throwing their case out. It took a literal, like, mob acting like against this, like, very malleable Governor Pilate that led to the crucifixion of Jesus. And it's like Jesus, like, lived a perfect life. No one could make accusations stick against him. And yet he was the most countercultural person ever to live. You know, he lived as a new citizen of a new kingdom, a new creation. And was arrested, and yet no one could bring a charge against him. Why? Because he was so holy, he was so good that like no charge stuck. And that's what you're talking about here is like we can live apart from the world and have different values and, and live in different ways. And when people come to us and say like, look, man, you're really messing up the society here.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And it's like, okay, what do you mean? How? They won't be able to make anything stick. Because they're like, well, you've messed up the neighborhood. How? Oh, actually, you've made it a lot better. You know, you've messed up Oklahoma City. How? Actually, you've made it a lot better.

Seth: And they—

David: you'll put their accusations against your Christianity to shame by being such a good Christian.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: I think that's what's getting—

Seth: I think that's exactly right. The accusation is that Christians were a disruption to the social order. Yeah, they were against the common good. I mean, even that's a— the New Atheists talked about that for a long time.

David: Definitely.

Seth: Before they fizzled out. Yeah.

David: Yeah, yeah. We don't need more Christians in the world was the argument.

Seth: Yeah.

David: The more Christians you have, the more embattled there, you know, things are. And it's like, yeah, but then the argument against that was like, look at all the good that Christianity has done in the world.

Seth: Yeah.

David: It puts the argument to shame.

Seth: We use our freedom from the world.

David: Yes.

Seth: Freedom from a particular government, freedom from whatever.

David: Not for evil, but for good.

Seth: But for good. Yeah. And I really think that's as simple as it gets. It's like We don't— that's all it means. I think, I don't think he— here's what, here's what it means behind what it means. A dangerous phrasing.

David: Yeah.

Seth: But it goes back to what you were talking to about Jesus. Jesus was willing to suffer unjustly so that he could offer kindness, so that he could offer love, so that he could do something else. Like there was a willingness to suffer unjustly and we'll get to that. Particularly with the slaves, because in suffering unjustly, there's something redemptive that happens on the other side. And maybe that's more than what's happening with slaves, but I just keep thinking about that too. It's like, I'm unwilling to suffer unjustly, so I react against that. I get angry, I rebel, I riot. I don't want that, so I want to get even. So do you see what I'm saying? Like behind this—

David: I do, yeah.

Seth: Has got to be a willingness to suffer as Jesus suffered. Suffered. Yes.

David: Uh, the thing that's ringing in my head is there's this book by Esau McCauley.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Called Reading While Black.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And it's about an African-American hermeneutic.

Seth: Okay.

David: Uh, and he talks about texts like this. He focuses on Romans 13, but similar texts.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Submitting to the governing authorities. And he just talks about how those texts have kind of been weaponized against oppressed communities that have been oppressed by the government to it's like, you just need to be willing to suffer unjustly whenever there's like police brutality.

Seth: Right.

David: And it's like the good thing for a Christian to do is to take it on the cheek.

Seth: Well, I've heard that same even in the conversation about women and wives. It's like that's a justification for domestic abuse, right? I've heard that same. Yes.

David: And so it's like I'm listening and I, and I agree that there's something here about like suffering unjustly is being like Christ. I think you're right. Yeah, I just don't want it to get so— I don't want some— I don't want it to get extrapolated to the point where it's like, right, so therefore never stand up against injustice.

Seth: Yeah, well, and here's something that's really— I was reading another commentary, I can't remember which one, it might have been my one by Ed Clowney, but he talked about a major difference between Roman society and our modern society is that Roman society the populace didn't have agency. It was functionally a dictatorship. You didn't have the ability to riot. You didn't have the ability to protest. You couldn't vote or legislate for your position. In ours we do. So like, there's something very different.

David: We have a right to assembly.

Seth: Yeah, which Rome could just kill on a dime, right? There wasn't even freedom of religion in Rome. So there's a difference on like a structural level there that's interesting, and I think that's Well, that is a point well taken. But when— let us just put it in the most extreme example. You are in North Korea.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: No freedom of religion, no right to assembly. You are a Christian under Kim Jong-un.

David: Yeah.

Seth: How— what do you do then?

David: Yeah, do you just— I have to just rebel and yell, and I know I will be put to death, but that is what Jesus did. You know, it is like, right, is that me? I am just going to go suffer unjustly because I should. It is like, no, it is— live a life above repute. Yeah. Like, that's what— that's the call here is you're submitting not because the submission in itself is like what you're being called to, like just, just fly under the radar. That's not what you're being called to do. You're being called to live such a good life that when, when Kim Jong-un notices you and you get dragged into court before him because you are a Christian under a dictatorship, He can't make any accusations stick. In fact, he's like, you're a Christian, you're terrible. And people come and witness against you and all they can do is say nice things about you.

Seth: Right.

David: And it's like, oh, actually, Christians make North Korea better.

Seth: Yes.

David: And then Kim Jong-un becomes a Christian. You know, that's the— that's the— that's the parable.

Seth: That's— that's what Peter wants us to say. There is something potentially redemptive about Christians enduring suffering and continuing to act like Christ regardless.

David: Right. So that they can be light in dark places.

Seth: Yes.

David: And they can put the powers to shame.

Seth: Yes. Okay. Powers can be shamed by Christians willing to endure suffering and continue to act like Christians where they are. Yeah. That's what he's saying.

David: Okay. I can get there.

Seth: You can get there.

David: I can get there. I just wanted to make that footnote. It's a good footnote of just like, we're not saying that Christians can't stand up against injustice.

Seth: Yeah. We have agency to do so.

David: When you have agency to do so.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Okay.

Seth: Because it's a different context. Peter's not writing to a Western democracy, right? Where we have the ability to do things like that. Right. Or the capacity or the But like, if we had— if Peter would have very different advice, I think, totally to people like us.

David: Yes.

Seth: So yeah, it's just, it's not the audience.

David: Good. Okay. So, you know, next we'll just go to the easy one. Verse 18, servants.

Seth: So as you mentioned before, this is a different word than slave, but it implies slave.

David: It does. It's a household servant.

Seth: Yeah.

David: A maid, a butler. But like, I also don't want to over-soften it. You know, it could be a field worker or something like that.

Seth: Also, I just want to notice something interesting. This is the second time that we haven't been— the person in power has not been addressed.

David: Oh, right. Yes.

Seth: It's the Christian citizen. It's the slave that Peter's addressing. Now, if you go read ancient household codes—

David: That's not who you talk to.

Seth: You write to the man of the house.

David: That's right.

Seth: You don't write to the slave of the house. You don't write to the the peasant. Yeah, you write to the ruler.

David: That's right.

Seth: So Peter's doing some pretty heavy lifting here.

David: Yeah.

Seth: How even how he's structuring himself in his letter is being countercultural. Yes.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And the fact that we are like dignifying the position of servant to God, like, no, no, to be free is to be a servant.

David: Yeah.

Seth: The Roman, the Greco-Roman world wants to say being in charge is being free. You know, being a servant is being free. He's doing some heavy lifting behind the scenes here. Yes.

David: Okay. So servants, be subject to your masters with all respect. Not only to the good and gentle, but also to the unjust. Now, before we jump into this, we have to just flag the historical issue here that texts like this were used in the, like, antebellum South. Yeah, right. To not only justify the institution of race-based slavery itself, which is evil and wicked, but also that slave masters would use this verse to justify the evil treatment and torture of their own slaves. And they would say like, look, God tells you— and they would train slaves just enough, like in Christianity, right? So that they could exploit verses like this.

Seth: There's a good reason why I had sober sobriety.

David: Yes. Like, I mean, so like, but we have to, we have to recognize that and know that it was wicked and evil. Without throwing the verse out.

Seth: Right.

David: You know, like the way the verse is used is terrible. You know, it's just like I use the example of like I've seen really weaponized versions of preaching, right? People using the gospel to sell holy water on TV. That's horrible, you know? And it's like, but I've also seen the good news just like change someone's life, you know? It's like just because something's misused doesn't mean it has to be thrown out. Yeah, the better thing to do is to focus on it and try to figure out what it actually means.

Seth: Yeah, I mean, we're gonna try to— yeah, we have like— and it's again, I think context is important. And again, I would probably say that those people didn't take this passage seriously. They definitely didn't take it seriously, because if they took it more seriously rather than try to use it as a pretext for abuse, I think they would have been indicted by it.

David: They should have been indicted by it. They should have seen themselves as the unjust that God is using slaves to reprimand. Yeah, yeah. And they didn't.

Seth: Uh, so here we go.

David: That's what we're stepping in, at least historically. Now we want to get back to Peter's actual audience and say what was going on though.

Seth: Yeah. So again, we're talking about the ser— the whole household would follow the religion of the head of the house. So if you have a servant not worshiping the same god as the Roman patron, the Roman father figure, That was like insubordinate.

David: Oh yeah.

Seth: It was unraveling the fabric of Roman society. This was against traditional Roman family values. You can't have this. Um, so if you are a servant though, being called to another kingdom, what do you do? Especially when everything in Roman society allows your Roman master to punish you for it. Yeah. That's, that's the context.

David: Yeah. And so he kind of paints this picture where, you know, you kind of like, okay, if you, if you do your job and you get credit for it, no big deal. That's what— that's, that's your job. And then if you do evil, if you do— if you don't do your job, you do something wicked and you get beaten, you kind of deserved it. You know, that's kind of a horrible way to say that.

Seth: But yeah, he doesn't say that. I know that's the way— that's the way slave masters justified it, right? Yeah.

David: For what? Verse 20. For what credit is it if when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? Right? He's like, but what if instead you don't sin because you've been freed from sin? Instead, what if you do good and yet you still suffer for it and you endure that? That's a gracious thing in the sight of God because like that's going to be the thing that reprimands your, your master. Yeah, it's like if you— it's the same idea of like the Christian in North Korea being drug before Kim Jong-un. It's the same idea. Is this good slave being beaten by their master for doing good, eventually the idea is that that light will overtake their darkness.

Seth: Yes.

David: That that's being a priest to them.

Seth: Yeah.

David: That you're being Jesus to them, that they're seeing their own wickedness.

Seth: Yeah.

David: You know, it's like, yeah, it's like you just see— I think there's like some movie or something I'm picturing where like you just see this angry person running out of like their house with a baseball bat in the air or something. It's like beat some helpless animal.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And this helpless animal looks up at them with like big, you know, starry dog eyes.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And they just melt and they are ashamed because they're just like, I'm a monster. The innocence and goodness of this poor little creature. I'm a monster. And they change, you know, like it's kind of—

Seth: Yeah, no, you're right. There is that redemptive obedience in the willingness to suffer is Peter says can actually reverse the evil of the world around. The evildoers might glorify God on the day of visitation, that he might return. That's what he's hoping for.

David: Yep. And he bases it all in verse 21, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example so that you might follow in his footsteps. He didn't commit sin, and yet he was crucified.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So when you are beaten or persecuted or ostracized for doing the right thing, You are in good company.

Seth: Yeah. And look at verse 23. When he was reviled, Jesus did not revile in return. When he suffered, he did not threaten. So I am just looking at the two ways to— like, there are two ways to respond. When sin is committed against you, you can lie to get out of it. When people hate you, you can hate them back. When you suffer, you can threaten violence in return. Right. Or you can continue to entrust yourself to the one who judges justly. Right. There, there is— are people out there who have so little agency that they can either hate the person beating them or they can entrust themselves to the one who judges justly.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And those are their two options. And Peter is saying that's the better road.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Because Jesus himself bore our sins in his body. And I think that even that phrase, in his body, is important here. It is. He's talking to slaves being beaten in their bodies.

David: Yeah.

Seth: He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree so that we could die to sin. We could die to deceit, die to reviling, die to hatred, die to violence, and live to righteousness.

David: Yeah. Um, yeah, I think like when I'm thinking about the gospel here, it's, it's helpful, but it's also like really convicting. To think that like, I'm really beat up by this text, you know, just having to think about it and like how it's been used. And we're not wanting to conflate this with American slavery because it's just different. It's very, very different. And like when it was conflated, that's whenever bad things happened. But still, just even reading it here, just thinking about a household slave that who knows how they got there. It wasn't race-based, it was economy-based, but it's still like a terrible place to be. And to, like, be beaten at your job for being a Christian just sucks. And it just, like, breaks my heart.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And I'm, like, finding it really difficult to think about that and process it and, like, having a hard time even just saying, just suffer unjustly, you know, and entrust yourself to God. And why I'm convicted by that is because I, I don't always feel that same level of heaviness when I reflect on Jesus's cross. And I'm just like, man, why is it harder for me to think about a slave in the first century in Asia, in Asia Minor, being beaten by their master because they're a Christian? Why is it harder for me to think about that than it is to think about Jesus actually suffering and dying under Roman, Jewish, and like God's wrath on the cross? Yeah. Why? Why can't I just process that so much easier? I'm just like, that's really convicting to me that I'm just like, man, I've kind of like, I've just let that slip. I don't see Jesus as the unjust sufferer in the same way.

Seth: Right.

David: And I need to.

Seth: And I mean, I think that's a big part of the good news here. When Peter is telling the gospel to slaves, he says, did you know Jesus was a slave too? Did you know he was treated unjustly? Like he was in your— like he doesn't say to the Christian masters, did you know Jesus was a master of the universe like you? Yeah. Like he doesn't do that. He puts Jesus— he dignifies the slave by placing Jesus there with him. Yeah. And I— and like, by his wounds you have been healed. There's no other verse like that in this whole authority section about the person suffering, experiencing restoration. It's like the evildoer might, you know, come to faith in Jesus. Right, right, right. But for the slave, like, by Jesus's wounds, your wounds will be healed too.

David: There's one last thing I want to say before we move on, and that's just like more of a textual note. So we've been— we've gotten kind of deep and emotional here. Yeah, but I think something interesting, if you, if you think back to last week when we were talking about Peter's use of Isaiah and talking about the cornerstone, right, and how he conflated the, like, the living stone of Jesus is this temple that's now alive. And like temples are where sacrifices were made by priests. Well, he's also quoting Isaiah here in "By his wounds you have been healed." That's right. And he's saying Jesus, the stone, the living temple where sacrifices are made, he is the sacrifice himself and like who heals your wounds. And so I just think he's continuing his— we talk as we talk about the introduction, his, his midrash of messianic, messianic midrash of Isaiah here. It's just like kind of a nerdy note to, um, to think about.

Seth: Yeah. And I'm pretty sure, yeah, I read this in one of my other commentaries. So Isaiah 53, you know, has that line about, but he's quoting Isaiah 53 throughout this.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Even like reviling deceit, being despised, rejected by all mankind. But what's interesting is that Peter retells Isaiah's narrative. In the order of Jesus's narrative. If you read Isaiah 53, um, it, you know, it reads like, he was suffering, familiar with pain, they despised him, they put him in lowest esteem, he took on our suffering, in this order. And then what Peter doesn't do is put Jesus's suffering and pain on the cross, this passion narrative on the cross, in the same order as Isaiah. He rewrites Isaiah so it's in the same order as Jesus's suffering on the cross. Oh, interesting. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, that's another weird textual note. Yeah, but it's like, it's fun that Jesus— what Peter is doing.

David: Yeah. It's also interesting that, you know, he takes the, the, the hymn of the suffering servant and says, you Christian are the suffering servant.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like Isaiah 53 is about you too.

Seth: Yeah.

David: It's just really powerful.

Seth: It is.

David: Um, and then dignifying, like you were talking about.

Seth: Right. Anyway, and then I was thinking about verse 25. It kind of feels like a throwaway line in all this.

David: Yeah. But it's also Isaiah 53.

Seth: It is.

David: Yeah, it is.

Seth: Yes. Wait, what? Oh, it is.

David: Yeah.

Seth: He's Isaiah 53. He did it. For we are straying like sheep, but have now returned to the shepherd and overseer of your souls. So what? And he's continuing.

David: We all like sheep have gone astray is what he's quoting. Yeah.

Seth: And I was, so I think like I was thinking about a couple things there. One, in a text like we keep, that we just got grounded and like felt like we got thrown against the rocks of just the reality of slavery. Right. This feels like another one of those texts that like kind of pulls us back to like, what are you being called into?

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: You're sheep of a new shepherd, right? So there's a new reality that you belong to something beyond yourself and you're being true to that thing, not to the situation that you're in. I also thought it was really interesting that some of Jesus's last words to Peter were about sheep and shepherds.

David: Totally.

Seth: It's like, because Peter denied the suffering of that, you know, he denied that he knew Jesus as he was suffering, being rejected, reviling. Like, you could imagine Peter watching this happen. Yeah. Having Isaiah 53 play out in his head as he sees all these things happening.

David: Yeah.

Seth: He then rejects Jesus. And then when he sees Jesus dies, the next one Jesus says, talks to him, he's quoting to him passage about sheep. Yeah. From Isaiah 53.

David: Very loaded for him.

Seth: Very loaded for him. Yeah.

David: It's also just like, we were all sheep straying, but we've returned to the shepherd and overseer of our souls. I mean, that's a very Isaiah 53 way of saying you have a better master, you know, talking to slaves and just saying, yeah, you have a better master and he takes care of his sheep, you know. So I know it feels like you've gone astray. And now you're— now your shepherd's terrible, but you've been set free and you have a new shepherd who's good and he's overseeing your soul even though you're in this valley. Okay, so we just finished the second of three, like, use cases that Peter goes into. We talked about citizens of Caesar, we talked about slaves and masters, and it's easy to get lost in the weeds. Yeah, but there's so much, there's so much. I want to zoom out real quick and just remind ourselves of the overall argument that Peter is making before we jump into our third, you know, use case, which is wives and husbands. What is the— what's the point that Peter's trying to drive home here as he's talking about citizens in a kingdom and slaves with a master? And freedom and slavery, what's, what's the main thing we need to remember that Peter's saying?

Seth: Well, because we are God's chosen people, we are necessarily exiles in our marriages, in our governments, in our, in our work.

David: And any— and really like anywhere. Anywhere. Yeah. These are like 3 use cases. Use cases.

Seth: Use cases. Like we're exiles. However, and as exiles, we will suffer. But in our willingness to accept suffering, and extend grace even to our persecutors, um, God will be gracious and save some. Yeah, I mean, that's the point he's making. Yeah, in a Christian— in an exile's willingness to endure suffering, those above us— one, we're suffering like Christ, and those above us might also come to know him too.

David: Yeah, and not only suffering, uh, enduring suffering, but enduring suffering for doing good. Right?

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, not just like, oh, you're oppressed for no reason isn't a necessary good thing.

Seth: Right.

David: But it's whenever you're oppressed for doing good in God's name, doing good.

Seth: Yeah, we'll talk about probably next week suffering for righteousness' sake. Yeah, Beatitudes.

David: Exactly.

Seth: Which—

David: yeah, so yeah, that's what he's aiming at. And so now we get into our third use case, which is wives and husbands.

Seth: That's right.

David: So it starts off 1 Peter 3, verse 1. Likewise, in the same way we talked about, wives be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives.

Seth: So yeah, I mean, again, wives were not supposed to have a different religion than their, their husband.

David: Right.

Seth: Um, so to be a Christian wife to a Roman husband would be to unravel good Roman family values. You're a threat to society, you're a threat to the moral order. Um, so that's the suspicion coming at them. That's the, that's the persecution coming from the top down. And a Roman husband would feel the need to crack down on his wife, right?

David: Yeah, totally. I'm like trying to not import like a modern sense to this, because it's like, I can easily associate with this where it's like, oh, it just would be tenuous for a husband and wife to have two different religions. That would be difficult.

Seth: That'd be hard.

David: I've even like, I even know like Christians who go to different churches. Yeah, husband and wife who go to different, and I'm like, how do you pull that off?

Seth: It just seems hard.

David: It just seems hard. Yeah, let alone different religions. And not even like I'm not talking denominations. I'm talking like, like you got, you got a, a Buddhist and a Mormon. It's just like, how would that work?

Seth: How do you do this?

David: How do you do this? And it's like, so I'm like trying not to like, and I think like the, the modern approach to that would be like tolerance.

Seth: Yeah.

David: You know, show tolerance to each other. Everyone's decision is valid. Um, you know, or it would just be like a lot of arguments, but both husband and wife would have equal grounds and they would argue and they would fight and they would slam doors and someone would sleep on the couch and they'd get a divorce.

Seth: Yeah, it's not what's happening.

David: That's not what's happening here. And so I'm trying to like, yeah, rewind the clock 2,000 years to an extremely patriarchal society where the husband even has law on his side to squelch his unbelieving wife's newfound faith in this Jesus person, right? Because she's doing something illegal.

Seth: Yes.

David: And unraveling that— not only doing something illegal, but there's something about the family institution of the Roman Empire and how it's built that is really hard for us to grasp onto.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like the Roman family with the, the father at the head is how Roman society was structured. And like to break that in any way is to threaten Caesar himself.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And it's really— it's hard for us to get back there, but that's everything that's in the water. And now you— so now, okay, so now you're, you're a wife. Of a Roman husband who worships Zeus and Caesar, you know, and then you start realizing there are no other gods.

Seth: More likely money and power.

David: Yeah, right. And, and yeah. And now you believe in Jesus and you're breaking the law and unraveling the fabric of Roman society and your husband's putting pressure on you.

Seth: You're being persecuted. What do you do? What do you do? And Peter says, to continue to remain in the marriage and to be subject to the same level power dynamic that's happening. Like he says, stay there.

David: Yeah, that's what—

Seth: that's the crazy thing. He says stay there so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of your wives. He just said it, uh, he said it with Roman governors. You should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. He said it before, your good deeds will make the evildoers glorify God on the day of visitation. There's something redemptive about a Christian with no power enduring suffering that redeems the people around them, right?

David: Yep.

Seth: That's what he's going for.

David: Yeah. Something really interesting here is right after he says this, like, really intense command, verse 3, he starts talking about jewelry and cosmetics. Do not let your adorning be external, the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry or the clothing you wear. But let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty and gentleness of a quiet spirit. And it's like, because I wonder, you know, if you were this Roman wife, maybe like, is he, is he saying like there, there were expectations of beauty for, for wives?

Seth: I think that's exactly right. Like Roman wives were arm candy in a sense.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like that's the way.

David: And it's like all of a sudden you're taking those things off and you're not, you're not adorning yourself.

Seth: You're not an object for your husband's sexual gratification. Yeah. Or like he can, he's not gonna parade you around anymore. Right. So what do you do?

David: Yeah.

Seth: What are you putting on now that you're You're not wearing that dress. Yeah.

David: Gentleness and love.

Seth: And yeah, well, interesting, the word choices you use. So it's like, okay, we're going to, we're going to stay in this marriage so that your husband might be won over. Wife, I know you have no power. I know the government's coming for you. I know you're not supposed to do this, but if you stay in this marriage, there's a chance your husband might turn around.

David: You can be a priest here.

Seth: You can be a priest here. You can be in exile and you might be a priest here. Do that by not necessarily just Putting on the clothes that your husband might want you to wear. Put on the clothes of a new husband. Yeah. Um, and he uses the words that we've already seen, the imperishable beauty. The last time we heard the word imperishable was the seed, the imperishable seed of God's word. We also, our inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading. And even these words, gentle and quiet spirit, are used later. Um, Uh, yeah, in 1 Peter 3:15, when Peter is just talking about suffering for righteousness' sake in general, all people are supposed to put on gentleness and respect towards those that they're suffering unjustly against. They put on this Christian virtue of being an exile in your own marriage while you're married to another, a better husband. Yeah, because, uh, and this is very precious in God's sight, which again is another callback to the covenant language.

David: Oh, right.

Seth: My precious people. Yes, precious people. So is that the answer? What you—

David: yeah, I was just, I was just, it was just interesting to be like, okay, because I was, I was trying to ask the question, what does it look like to be subject to your own husbands? It can't mean to take on their gods and to deny Christ. So what does it look like?

Seth: Right? Like, whatever social expectation, like, that's what you were getting at.

David: Like, yeah. And it's like, it also can't mean going with the tide of expected culture, which is like be arm candy. You know, it's like, but there's a way to be subject in a sense to your husband and still be living very counterculturally.

Seth: Well, think about marriage also wasn't for love, right? Marriage was for status. Women were proof of a man's status. And so what's Peter inviting inviting them to prove their stat— like to show their status as a citizen of a new kingdom. Right. You're no longer— you will submit to your husband, but you don't belong to your husband that way anymore.

David: You submit to a new husband.

Seth: You belong to a new husband, and you are supposed to adorn yourself as if you've been given a status greater than the one who rules over you right now. I think that's part of what's going on behind the scenes.

David: Yeah. There's also the, the weird angel thing with all of this too.

Seth: Where's the angels in here?

David: They're not in here.

Seth: Oh, they're in—

David: but they're in Enoch.

Seth: They're in Enoch. Oh, we'll get to Enoch. Is that in 2 Peter we talk about this or 1 Corinthians? Jude. Jude. Yeah.

David: But anyway, there's this whole idea of like, fallen angels ended up giving humanity these things that he references gold jewelry and fancy hair and makeup, that fallen angels were the ones who gave that. This is an intertestamental book.

Seth: And if you are interested in how fallen angels might have invented jewelry, tune in for our Jude podcast, which is

David: forthcoming.

Seth: Forthcoming.

David: Anyway, I just wanted to flag that because it's interesting. Okay, so the next thing he does, he talks about jewelry and hair, but then the next thing he does is he kind of tells like a parable or a narrative, he refers back to Genesis with like the patriarchal family of Israel. Yeah, he goes back to Abraham and Sarah, which we've already said Abraham's like the foil for 1 Peter.

Seth: He's the first exile. Yes, he was called out of his home, an exile towards a new home.

David: But in the story that Peter's about to tell, Abraham is not the hero.

Seth: That's the way it seems. So here's what it's— 5 and 6 says, for this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves. Themselves. So it's like, act like this to your unjust husbands. They used to act this way by submitting to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord. And you are her children if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening.

David: So it's a difficult text.

Seth: It's a difficult text. There's a couple things going on here.

David: Um, one is, when did Sarah obey Abraham? What, what are they referring to?

Seth: Yeah.

David: And then when did she call him Lord?

Seth: Yeah, what it sounds like on the surface is a proof text for patriarchy. Patriarchy. That's what it kind of sounds like on the surface. And for women to just get on with it, right?

David: Sarah did it with Abraham and it worked great. That's what it sounds like.

Seth: And what's weird about this is in Abraham and Sarah, you have two faithful people, but the whole context so far has been an ungodly, unjust Roman husband and a Christian spouse. Like, It seems like a weird story to insert here. Yes. So the only time in Genesis there were that Sarah or Sarah. Yeah. Sarah, Sarah called Abraham Lord is in Genesis 18:12.

David: Yeah.

Seth: When she is, it's like laughing. She's laughing about the prophecy about giving a son. Right. And will my Lord get me pregnant? It's like the sarcastic comment. That's the only time in scripture. It's not irreverent.

David: It's not like— it's not a reverent my lord.

Seth: So it's like, that's such a strange— so if he's talking about that, such an odd reference.

David: Such an odd reference.

Seth: And we're never told in Genesis that Sarah obeys Abraham. We're actually told the opposite.

David: Right.

Seth: Abraham— we're explicitly told Abraham obeys Sarah 3 times. So it seems weird. What's Peter talking about in the story? Because we don't seem to have biblical reference for it.

David: Right.

Seth: The outlying theory, which we'll It's not my favorite theory, but there's another intertestamental book called the Testament of Moses.

David: Yeah, Testament— Testimony of Moses.

Seth: Either way.

David: Either way. Testament of Moses.

Seth: Where there's a story about Sarah submitting, obeying, and calling Abraham Lord.

David: Right.

Seth: Maybe he's referencing that. Maybe the whole jewelry thing is a reference to Enoch. We'll talk about that later. Yeah.

David: Um, but there's another, and I think potentially more compelling theory.

Seth: Is there is a story of Sarah obeying Abraham, and it's when Abraham is not obeying the word, right? It's when Abraham tells Sarah to pretend that he's her— his sister, right?

David: They go to this— they go to another nation. So they're foreigners and exiles, fitting of the theme. They go to Egypt, fitting of the theme, and he's afraid for his life. And so he tells Sarah to pretend to be his sister because she's so beautiful. And hopefully the king will treat Abraham well because of Sarah's beauty.

Seth: And yeah, because— and Sarah's added to his political harem and Abraham.

David: And so Sarah goes along with it, obeys him in a sense, even though it's a dumb idea and he's not being faithful.

Seth: And the narrative tells us this.

David: And, and yet— and so— and yet she does it twice, right? Twice this happens. And yet God uses like the obedience of Sarah despite Abraham's faithlessness to save his people and end up teaching Abraham some lessons in the process.

Seth: Yes.

David: And so it's like, that's an interesting way to think about it, is that even when a faithful wife is submitting to a dumb husband who's being disobedient to the word, God can do miraculous things.

Seth: Yes. And that's the point.

David: That's the point.

Seth: This is not about all husbands for all time. This is not about all marriages for all time. What happens when there's a power imbalance in a marriage and the husband is ruling over his wife? She's not even allowed to be a part of a different religion. And her husband keeps telling her to do things she's not supposed to do.

David: Right.

Seth: How do you live as that type of wife? Well, you submit up to a point in a certain way, and perhaps it can win over your husband. Yeah, perhaps.

David: And like, it doesn't even have to be like a cause and effect, direct cause and effect. Like God can use that to bring about a change in your husband.

Seth: Yeah, yeah, that's right.

David: The other thing that we briefly flagged it here, I just want to— earlier, I just want to flag it here that this is not an excuse for domestic abuse.

Seth: Yep.

David: I just want to flag it. Yeah, we should, we should flag that.

Seth: And I think in the next— I want to keep talking about this. Yeah, I think there's an oblique reference to domestic abuse in the next verse. Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers would not be hindered. So the weaker vessel, I think, just implies general— the general physical difference between men and women, right? And how do men in power generally use their strength? Yeah, they domineer over women, dominate and hurt women, right? I think this is calling on husbands, at least implicitly, that they cannot use their strength to abuse—

David: don't physically dominate women for your own Like pleasure.

Seth: That's right.

David: Yes.

Seth: And, and to eat. But even to say that this isn't a pretext for domestic violence, isn't a pretext for anything, is to miss the point of what we're talking about.

David: Yes.

Seth: Is to miss the point of what Peter's trying to say. He's like, wives, I know you're in an impossible position. Wives, I know you have no power in the relationship. I know you can't do anything, but here's what happens when you do. Just as Jesus did something when he He acted powerless to stop it. He rose from the dead.

David: Right.

Seth: If you act as Jesus, things change. Resurrection can happen.

David: Right.

Seth: Like, that's the hope he's offering.

David: Like, it doesn't make sense.

Seth: It doesn't make sense.

David: That's the whole point.

Seth: Like, that's right. Yeah.

David: Like, it doesn't make sense.

Seth: You shouldn't be able to do anything from the grave, right? You shouldn't be able— as a wife in Roman society, you shouldn't be able to affect change. As a slave in Roman society, as a citizen in Roman society, You should have no agency, but by acting like Christ, you do.

David: Yeah.

Seth: By acting like Christ, you push back darkness. As acting like Christ, you extend the kingdom of God in the kingdom of the empire.

David: Yes.

Seth: That's the hope he's giving, right? These people.

David: And so, like, for all of us then, as Christians living today, what does that have to say to us? I think is a really good question, is it's like, do good wherever you are, whatever that looks like. You know, and that will, that will look like going against the grain of culture, you know, just but live, live that out. And when you do, God will use what seems to you perhaps seemingly insignificant. You know, like all I did was like marry one woman and never cheated on her.

Seth: Yeah.

David: You know, that's all I did. I just, I just waited until marriage to have sex. And then I got married to one woman and we were faithful to each other. And then that's it.

Seth: Yep, yep, yep.

David: And it's like, that seems like nothing, you know, to me, you know? And yet God is saying, like, in those small things, you know, in what seems like nothing, which should have no effect— one marriage of two people in Edmond, Oklahoma, you know, shouldn't— should not change the world. But in God's kingdom, it can.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And like I told, I told the story briefly on the last episode.

Seth: Yeah.

David: At the end where it's like Megan and I's marriage, that's kind of in my view of it, like, right, our marriage can't change the world. Right. It just, it just is what it is. And yet I think bears repeating some of the story that we had a person in our life sitting on our couch in our home, struggling with sexual sin on a really deep level. And it was our marriage that they said is drawing them out of sexual sin because there's something about it that's attracting them. Not that they want to go find a healthy marriage. They actually don't want to get married now. They want Jesus and it's calling them to Jesus. Yeah. And I was like, I had to ask her. I was just like, why? You know, I don't know. There's just something compelling pulling me towards God. And I was like, okay, like a marriage in Edmond, Oklahoma is saving someone's life.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Even though it shouldn't. Yeah. It doesn't make sense.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But it will.

Seth: There's something like we were saying, there's something powerful about simple, like not simple, but costly obedience to God that changes the world. Yeah, it really does. And that's the hope Peter keeps offering to the powerless. Again, like he writes to wives, slaves, and citizens. Nobody writes to those people except Peter. Yeah. Um, he does end with an exhortation to husbands.

David: Yes.

Seth: And it's likewise husbands. It's like everything I said to wives applies to you guys.

David: Yes.

Seth: Yeah. Like, it's like he's like, he's like he leaves the most powerful person for last. For last.

David: Which is a big no-no in Roman society.

Seth: I mean, even today, like you mentioned, you mentioned the biggest donor first, right? At the charity of all, you know, like, right, right, right.

David: Oh, and by the way, thank you to our multimillion dollar donor.

Seth: Yes. Yeah. You don't do that. Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor. Yeah, that word honor is the same word in 2:7. That's just— that's precious. Yeah, treat your wives like the precious chosen nation and priests they are. Yep, they are the physically weaker, but they are also heirs with you of the grace of life. Treat your wives like they are an heir with you, an heir. Yeah. An equal inheritor.

David: Right. A princess.

Seth: A princess. A queen of God himself.

David: Right.

Seth: Um, yeah, that informs your relationship with her.

David: Totally.

Seth: And a couple things there. Is Peter addressing a Christian husband with a non-believing wife? That could be.

David: It could be.

Seth: And it makes sense that everything has been in that direction. So when you have a non-believing wife, as a husband, what do you do? Do you kick her out? You have the power to do so. You could divorce her. Right? Right. You could do that. Do you treat her poorly? You have the physical strength to do so. What do you— how as a Christian husband do you treat your non-believing wife? And the Greek would allow that reading. Yeah. I think my translation makes it sound like the women are clearly Christian. The Greek is a little more ambiguous. It could be a Christian and a wife living— a Christian husband, a Christian wife. Like, okay, guys, and work that out.

David: Right.

Seth: With respect to one another. I don't know. Yeah.

David: But the point remains the same, that whether you are in a position of power or a position of powerlessness, you are to be like Christ, laying down that power in order to show goodness and mercy and grace and love to every single person around you. Yeah. Like, that's the point.

Seth: That's the point.

David: And like, if you want to enact change in the world, You don't do it by being domineering, by rising up, by rebelling, by— you do it counterculturally like Jesus did. You die, you suffer unjustly, you do good when everything around you is evil. And so like, I think that's the exhortation. The good news to everyone listening today is like, no matter what situation you find, you find yourself in, if you have a ton of power or if you have no power at all, like the way God has designed his kingdom is you can change the world. Like you can be a priest in a living temple. Yeah, because you too can lay down your life.

Seth: Yeah. I'm thinking about what Jesus said, that we need— you need to count the cost. Yeah. I feel like this is a pretty full picture of what counting the cost looks like. Yeah. If whenever you think about Jesus saying, before you become a citizen of my kingdom, you need to count the cost. What's it going to cost for wives, slaves, and citizens to become citizens of this new kingdom? This is a pretty clear picture. Of what Jesus probably had in mind. Yeah. And even the closest parallel I can even think is like my, some of my Muslim friends that have converted to Christianity. Yeah. Who experience a very similar degree of social ostracization and estrangement from their family. Like they're just, they're severed and cut off.

David: Yep.

Seth: And even though like there's no persecution on the line, there's no whip on the line, except maybe like the disapproval of your father, which is pretty strong. Mm-hmm. So like the rejection of your mother. But like, what do you do in that situation? It's— I mean, you've— you're beyond the pale for your family. Yeah. It feels hopeless, which I'm assuming these wives, slaves, and citizens felt. But simple, kind, simple Christlike kindness and a willingness to suffer unjustly is redemptive. It can change. It matters. It can resurrect things. Yes.

David: And no matter what you suffer, you will be resurrected.

Seth: Yes. That life is now yours.

David: Yes. It's imperishable. No matter what you endure. That's a lot.

Seth: That's a lot.

David: It's been a lot. Yeah, this is— this has been a difficult passage, but really helpful and just gives me different ways to even process the cross, you know. So yeah, thank you guys so much for joining us on this episode. We'll continue in 1 Peter 3 next week about suffering for righteousness' sake. So I'm excited to kind of keep going through 1 Peter with you guys. And, uh, please join us there.

Seth: What's—

David: what else you have to tease?

Seth: We got— we get to talk about Noah and the angels.

David: Oh boy, angels are finally coming. I can finally talk about it.

Seth: Yeah, you get finally talk about it.

David: Well, good. Noah and the angels.

Seth: And like, uniquely, as you just flagged here, it's like, you will be saved in the last— you'll be resurrected on the last day. Peter really opens that up in next week too. The eschaton. The eschaton.

David: All right, well, I'm very excited then. We will see you guys next week.

Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel Podcast. Spoken Gospel creates short films, devotionals, and podcasts like this one. Everything we make is free because of generous supporters like you. To see our resources, visit SpokenGospel.com or subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. See you next week.