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1 Peter 3:8-4:19: Suffering for Righteousness Sake

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Peter's churches are suffering, just as Jesus told them to expect. But Peter encourages them with the truth that resurrection is inevitable for those who suffer for the sake of righteousness. Seth and David talk about the good news that inevitable suffering leads to inevitable glory.

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Why Inevitable Suffering Leads to Inevitable Resurrection in 1 Peter 3–4

Show Notes

David and Seth from the Spoken Gospel podcast walk through 1 Peter 3:8–4:19, a passage that confronts the reality of suffering head-on and reveals why it is not a sign that the Gospel is failing but proof that it is working. Peter wrote to communities being legislated against by their government, mocked for their sobriety, and increasingly hated for their allegiance to Jesus. His message to them — and to us — is that in a world like that, resurrection is everywhere.

Blessing Instead of Retaliation: Living in Abraham's Story

Peter commands his readers not to repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling but instead to bless those who harm them (1 Peter 3:9). This is not simply a moral command to be nice. It flows from the story God's people have been grafted into. Through Abraham, all nations of the earth will be blessed (Genesis 12:3). When followers of Jesus respond to hatred with hatred, they are participating in the narrative of the kingdom they have been exiled from — the kingdom that runs on retaliation, reviling, and harm. But those who trust Jesus have switched allegiance. They are citizens of a different kingdom, children of Abraham's line, and their calling is to bless even the people who persecute them.

This echoes Jesus' command to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you so that you may be children of your Father in heaven (Matthew 5:44–45). Peter is making the same point using the language of Israel's story. Just as he had connected his readers to Abraham and Sarah in the previous passage about husbands and wives, he now calls them to fulfill the Abrahamic promise by being a blessing to the very nations that oppress them. The practical shape of this blessing involves love, submission, prayer, and the pursuit of peace — even with those in power over you who are causing harm.

The Blessings of the Righteous Life

Peter quotes Psalm 34 to describe the blessings that come to those who suffer for doing good: a life worth loving, days that are genuinely good, and a God who listens to your prayers and reveals his face to you (1 Peter 3:10–12). These blessings do not mean a life without suffering. They mean a morally upright life — the good life of Proverbs — where God has a fatherly attentiveness to his children's requests. Peter has already warned husbands that their prayers would be hindered if they mistreated their wives (1 Peter 3:7), and he will say again in 1 Peter 4:7 that being self-controlled and sober-minded matters for the sake of your prayers. One of the primary benefits of belonging to God's family is that God actually listens and responds.

There is also the blessing of vindication. When followers of Jesus live with such consistent gentleness, truthfulness, and respect that their accusers can find nothing to bring against them, those accusers are put to shame (1 Peter 3:16). This is the context behind the famous memory verse about always being prepared to give a reason for the hope that is in you (1 Peter 3:15). Peter is not describing a formal apologetics debate. He is describing a life so different from the surrounding culture that people cannot help but ask, "Why didn't you come to the party? Why are you living this way?" And when they ask, followers of Jesus should not deflect or hide. They should be ready — with gentleness and respect — to explain the hope that drives their strange, countercultural life. The consistent good behavior of those who trust Jesus has the power to transform the people around them, expanding the Kingdom of God through what might be called garden work — partnering with God to see his reign spread.

The Spirits in Prison: Jesus' Victory Over Ancient Evil

Peter then makes one of the most puzzling moves in the New Testament. After declaring that Jesus suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring us to God (1 Peter 3:18), he says that Jesus, made alive in the Spirit, went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison who formerly did not obey in the days of Noah (1 Peter 3:19–20). One commentator has identified 180 possible interpretations of this passage, but it becomes clearer when you understand the background Peter's audience already knew.

Before the flood narrative in Genesis 6, there is a strange account of the "sons of God" — spiritual beings — who lusted after human women and produced a race of beings called the Nephilim (Genesis 6:1–8). Whatever the precise nature of this event, the result was that wickedness spread across the entire earth until every inclination of the human heart was only evil all the time (Genesis 6:5). Intertestamental Jewish literature, widely known in Peter's day, described these fallen spiritual beings as having been consigned to a prison. Peter draws on this tradition, along with the Genesis text itself, to make the point he has been making throughout the entire letter: inevitable suffering leads to inevitable resurrection. Jesus was put to death in the flesh, made alive in the Spirit, and then proclaimed his victory over those ancient evil powers. The spirits who corrupted the earth have been conquered by the death and resurrection of Jesus. If that greater spiritual battle has already been won, how much more certain is it that those who suffer for righteousness' sake will experience resurrection and blessing?

Baptism, the Ark, and the Eighth Day

Peter connects the flood and Noah's ark directly to baptism, saying that baptism "corresponds to this" (1 Peter 3:21). Just as Noah and his family entered the ark and were brought safely through the waters of judgment, those who are baptized into Jesus enter the ark of his death and resurrection. The waters of baptism represent judgment — the flood that would have drowned you — but in the ark of Jesus, you pass through those waters and come out alive on the other side. The pastor does not leave you under the water. You come back up. That is resurrection, and it is inevitable for everyone who is in the ark.

Some scholars note that the eight persons saved through the flood carry symbolic weight. Eight is the number of new creation — the day after the seven-day creation week. On the eighth day, you are reborn. Baptism, which corresponds to the flood, marks the transition from the old creation into the new, from the old way of life into resurrection life in Jesus. Peter is not describing baptism as merely washing dirt from the body but as a pledge of a good conscience toward God (1 Peter 3:21) — a spiritual cleansing that moves a person from one kingdom to another. And at the summit of the whole passage, Peter declares that Jesus has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subjected to him (1 Peter 3:22). The Nephilimic powers have lost. Jesus rules.

The New Life After the Flood

Since followers of Jesus have passed through the waters and entered a new creation, Peter says they must arm themselves with the same way of thinking as Jesus: whoever has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin (1 Peter 4:1). This is not abstract theology. It means that the old way of life — what might be called the Nephilimic way of life, marked by sensuality, drunkenness, orgies, drinking parties, and lawless idolatry — is over (1 Peter 4:3). The time for that has passed. Those old pursuits belong to a pre-flood existence. When the people around you are surprised that you no longer join them in that "flood of debauchery" (1 Peter 4:4), Peter says not to worry. They will give an account to the God who judges the living and the dead (1 Peter 4:5).

Instead, the new life looks like self-control, sober-mindedness, earnest love for one another, hospitality without grumbling, and using the gifts God has given to serve others (1 Peter 4:7–11). This is the blessed life, the good life — and it is worth the cost. The criticism from the surrounding culture will always be the same: Why would you deny yourself? Why not join the party? But Peter's answer is that death is not the end. Suffering in this life is not the final word. Those who trust Jesus are playing the long game, and the cost of this righteous life is nothing compared to the resurrection glory waiting on the other side.

Rejoicing in the Fire: Sharing in the Sufferings of Jesus

Peter closes this section by urging his readers not to be surprised by the fiery trial as though something strange is happening (1 Peter 4:12). Suffering for the name of Jesus is not a malfunction; it is the pattern the creator of the world established through his own death and resurrection. When followers of Jesus suffer for righteousness' sake, they are not merely imitating Jesus — they are sharing in his sufferings, and they will share in his glory when it is revealed (1 Peter 4:13). If you are insulted for the name of Jesus, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you (1 Peter 4:14). Peter learned this firsthand in Acts 5, when he was flogged by the Sanhedrin and left rejoicing that he was counted worthy to suffer dishonor for the name of Jesus.

The passage also carries a sober warning. Judgment begins at the household of God (1 Peter 4:17). If even the righteous are scarcely saved — like Noah's family barely making it into the ark while the whole world flooded — what will become of the ungodly and the sinner (1 Peter 4:18)? The implied answer is devastating for those outside the ark. But for those inside, the assurance is total. And at the heart of it all is the Gospel itself: we were the unrighteous ones. We were the ones who threw our evil and reviling at Jesus. And he did not repay evil for evil. He repaid our evil with his good, dying righteously for us, earning resurrection life not only for himself but for everyone who trusts him (1 Peter 3:18). That story — suffering for righteousness' sake leading to inevitable resurrection — is not just something to believe. It is a worldview to embody, a story to live in, and the reason followers of Jesus entrust their souls to a faithful Creator and keep doing good (1 Peter 4:19).

Transcript

Intro: [upbeat music] Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a ministry that's dedicated to speaking the gospel out of every corner of scripture. In Luke 24, Jesus told his disciples that every part of the Bible was about him. So each week, hosts David and Seth work through a passage of scripture to see how it's all about Jesus and his good news. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]

David: Well, welcome everyone to the Spoken Gospel podcast. We are so glad you're joining us, and I'm very glad to have my dear friend Seth joining me as always.

Seth: That's right.

David: How are you, man?

Seth: I'm, I'm well today.

David: Yeah?

Seth: I'm ready for a haircut.

David: Oh, yeah.

Seth: Not that anybody can see.

David: No.

Seth: But my hair is frustrating me-

David: This has been a-

Seth: ... intensely

David: ... this has been a, a narrative here at Spoken Gospel

Seth: I've been t- over the course [laughs] of the last several months, I've been growing my hair out to see if I can get it long and likable.

David: Yeah. And li- long and likable.

Seth: But it's, it's, it's-

David: It's just long.

Seth: It's just long. [laughs]

David: And you don't like it.

Seth: And I don't like it.

David: [laughs]

Seth: And I've given myself a deadline of October.

David: Okay.

Seth: And I'm in September, and I'm just ready for it to be over or it to be liked.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And it's neither of those things right now.

David: Well, let's see. And you know, much like hair that is cut in a act of suffering, only for it to inevitably grow back in resurrection. [laughs]

Seth: Mm.

David: 1 Peter 3 and 4.

Seth: I thought you were gonna be like a oil, like Seth's unwashed hair, like the oil dripping down Aaron's beard. [laughs]

David: Oh, no.

Seth: No.

David: No.

Seth: That was... No.

David: No, I was trying to make a segue, or one of our famous segues. [laughs]

Seth: Uh, yeah. Into?

David: 1 Peter 3 and 4.

Seth: Which is about the inevitability of suffering.

David: So get excited.

Seth: Get excited. Well-

David: No, get really excited, actually.

Seth: Yeah, so Peter has been making the point for a while now that suffering for the Christian is inevitable, but that is good news.

David: Because just as inevitable...

Seth: Is resurrection.

David: Yeah. Um, and you can't have one without the other.

Seth: And you can't have one withi- without the other.

David: 'Cause Jesus didn't just have resurrection. [laughs]

Seth: Right. He, it's, he-

David: Because you must die first.

Seth: You must die first. He set the pattern.

David: Uh, yeah.

Seth: Yeah. And so, and remember, Peter's speaking to people being legislated against by their government. They're in a culture that mocks their sobriety while celebrating sensuality.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: It's a world that's increasingly hating followers of Jesus, and Peter says, "In a world like that, resurrection is everywhere."

David: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Seth: And that's what we're gonna talk about.

David: Okay. So when we're talking about, we're gonna talk about suffering for righteousness sake. That's like the first thing we're gonna talk about, right?

Seth: Yes.

David: Okay. Um, what ki-

Seth: And-

David: Just help me real quick, unless it's in the text, I don't know if it is.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: What kind of suffering are we talking about? I mean, I see the word in verse nine of chapter three, reviling.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like being reviled. Um-

Seth: Yep. So here, let me just-

David: I, I see the word harm. I'm like, we're talking about suffering.

Seth: Yeah.

David: What, what, what are we talking about?

Seth: Well, so what does it mean to suffer for righteousness sake?

David: Right.

Seth: Is the question.

David: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Seth: So if we remember back to our last podcast, we had these examples of slaves, spouses, and, uh, c-

David: Citizens

Seth: ... citizens-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... all suffering because of their affiliation with Jesus-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and their allegiance to him. Um, and for various reasons, they're being treated evily. They are being mocked, persecuted. They're being-

David: Ostracized

Seth: ... ostracized.

David: Left out.

Seth: They're being-

David: And then-

Seth: ... alienated in their marriages-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... and whatever relationship, like that's what's happening.

David: But maybe even physical suffering.

Seth: May- uh, eh, most certainly in the slave, the slave-

David: In the slave one, yep

Seth: ... the slave relationship. We see that.

David: Or maybe just as a citizen in the kingdom-

Seth: Right

David: ... your, the government is going to oppress you for not worshiping their gods. [laughs]

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah.

Seth: That's exactly right.

David: Okay. Yep.

Seth: So there's that happening.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And so John, or John, Peter-

David: Yep

Seth: ... is encouraging his people, in the face of that type of suffering, respond by not being evil.

David: Mm.

Seth: Respond righteously because when we suffer for righteousness sake, we will be blessed.

David: Yeah.

Seth: That's the point here.

David: Okay.

Seth: He's gonna make a point, a different point in a second, when we suffer like Christ-

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... we will be resurrected.

David: Right.

Seth: But for now, he's making, when we suffer for righteousness sake, when we suffer for doing the right thing when being done evil against-

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... we will be blessed, which-

David: We will be blessed, which is a hyperlink.

Seth: To-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... resurrection life, and eternal life, and everything else.

David: But also to Matthew chapter 5, is what I was thinking. [laughs]

Seth: Oh, yes.

David: It's, it's a beatitude. Yeah, it's, "Blessed are you when you're persecuted for my name," right?

Seth: For my name. Well, there's two different beatitudes about this.

David: Okay.

Seth: There's one, suffering for righteousness sake-

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... and one for suffering for my namesake.

David: Oh.

Seth: And I think Peter brings them both up here.

David: And we're in the first one.

Seth: And we're in the first one.

David: Ah, I see. That's pretty cool.

Seth: Yeah, I think so too.

David: So we're, yeah, suffer, "Blessed are you when you suffer for righteousness sake." And so he, I mean, he has this, uh, command, which is not unique to Peter. Uh, Paul says something very close to this in Romans 12.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Uh, but 1 Peter 3:9, "Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Uh, I, I, I mean, that's a hard, that's a hard thing to ask somebody to do.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "Don't repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling."

Seth: Don't get even.

David: Yeah, don't get even.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Uh, so, uh, well, I mean, like why, why not? [laughs]

Seth: Um, because it's the wrong story.

David: Oh, okay.

Seth: Um, what is the story that people of God are being invited into?

David: The through-

Seth: Through-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... through the family of Abraham, all nations of the Earth will be blessed.

David: Oh, yeah. Right.

Seth: So when you repay evil with evil, and hate for hate, you're participating in the story that's not God's people.

David: Oh, you're-

Seth: When you-

David: Yeah, you're part of the other kingdom-

Seth: But-

David: ... that you have now been exiled from.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And you are now a sojourner in.

Seth: Yes.

David: They, that kingdomRepays evil for evil-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and does evil, and reviles and harms

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: And that's the narrative of that kingdom. That's the way that kingdom operates. It's its lifeblood.

Seth: Yes.

David: And you've been exiled from that kingdom by faith in Jesus.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: We talked about this in the 1 Peter introduction-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... in 1 Peter 1. Um, uh, a- and now, in this switched allegiance, now that you're in the kingdom of heaven and as you sojourn through the evil kingdom, you have to live by another story-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... where you-

Seth: The citizen of a different kingdom

David: ... you're- you are meant to be a blessing because you're in Abraham's line.

Seth: That's right.

David: Uh, and so all nations, even the evil ones, even the reviling ones, even the harmful ones [laughs]

Seth: Even ones that harm you personally

David: ... you personally, you go bless them.

Seth: Yeah.

David: That's helpful because I mean, for a long... I mean, I've studied passages like this for a long time, especially back in college when I was doing deep studies on, um, social justice-

Seth: Uh-huh

David: ... and, uh, Christian non-violence.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And this was a, this is a classic proof text for Christian non-resistance or Christian non-violence.

Seth: Mm, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David: And, and it's just like, "See? We don't do those kinds of things," you know?

Seth: Right.

David: Or, um, the, you know, the best grounding is obviously just the gospel, that Jesus didn't do it, so we don't do it, you know?

Seth: Yep. Yep, exactly.

David: Jesus suffered and died so you can suffer and die.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Which is true.

Seth: Which is true.

David: But Peter is doing something way broader here, too.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And he's gra- he's been grafting the, the people, the exiled sojourners of his community-

Seth: Mm

David: ... into Israel's story in chapters 1 and 2.

Seth: That's right.

David: And so now when he's telling them to bless and not harm, he's saying, "Be Abraham. Fulfill the Abrahamic promise to bless all nations."

Seth: That's right. And-

David: I- I've never thought about that-

Seth: And-

David: ... so I'm just having to rehearse it in my own head

Seth: ... and think about-

David: It's good

Seth: ... just, just previously-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... in the last example, he just talked about wives and husbands, and who did he just bring up?

David: Sarah.

Seth: Abraham and Sarah.

David: Abraham, Sarah, yeah.

Seth: So he's, he's, he's in this mode. I also think this is his way of repeating Jesus's command to love your enemies.

David: Oh, yeah.

Seth: "I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you so that you may be children of your Father in heaven."

David: Mm.

Seth: And so he's doing the same type of work here-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... just using different meta- a different meta- or a different way to get us in there. He's talking about the story of Abraham, story of God's people.

David: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Seth: Let's try being children of God's people.

David: Being children of God's people.

Seth: Like our Father in heaven who's-

David: Oh

Seth: ... birthed a, a new people, a new nation of people through Abraham to bless the world.

David: Okay. Okay, I'm in for this.

Seth: Yep.

David: I'm in for this. Uh-

Seth: And then-

David: Well, can-

Seth: Okay, ask a question

David: ... can I, I wanna... What does it mean to bless others, and what does it mean that we will obtain a blessing?

Seth: Uh.

David: [laughs] That's, that was my, that's my question.

Seth: I mean, Jesus says, "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."

David: Mm.

Seth: Right?

David: Mm.

Seth: So that's, that's a really c- concrete thing.

David: Yep.

Seth: And then Peter has just said s- to submit to those in authority over you-

David: Yep

Seth: ... so that you might win them.

David: Okay.

Seth: So when you are in a situation where you're, where you have no power-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... how do you, uh, bless? You love, you submit, and you pray.

David: Yeah.

Seth: That's, I, I think... I mean, in context, I would say in reflecting the story of Jesus, that's what it means.

David: Yeah.

Seth: You love, you submit, and you pray.

David: Yeah. Oh, and then to obtain a blessing, he quotes this... Is this a Psalm here?

Seth: Mm-hmm, this is a Psalm, 34.

David: Uh, yeah, okay, so this is verse 10 of 1 Peter 3, and you said it's Psalm 34?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And it's like, "So that you may obtain a blessing. For," and then he quotes this Psalm, "Whoever desires to love life and see good days, let him keep his tongue from evil." Uh, okay, that's cool.

Seth: Mm.

David: So it's like, what's the blessing I'm obtaining? Uh, a life that I'm gonna love-

Seth: Mm-hmm, and see

David: ... and days that are good.

Seth: Yep.

David: Okay. Now, I- we, we know he can't mean days absent of suffering-

Seth: Right

David: ... or an easy or comfortable life-

Seth: Right

David: ... but a life that you'll love-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and days that are actually good despite the circumstance.

Seth: That's right.

David: Okay.

Seth: Or he, it could even be, like, um, like, the kind of, like, the good life of Proverbs, like, which kind of i- implies like-

David: Oh. Not, not good, like, qualitative-

Seth: But-

David: ... but good, like, moral.

Seth: Yeah, the good life.

David: The good life.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Okay, yep.

Seth: Um, and he, he, he says, "Keep your tongue from evil and your lips from speaking deceit," which goes back up to don't repay evil for evil or hatred for hatred.

David: Yep.

Seth: But on the contrary, bless. Um, "Let him turn away from evil to, and do good. Let him seek peace-

David: Mm

Seth: ... and pursue it," which I think is an interesting way to talk about submission, too. When you have authorities above you persecuting you, you're actually supposed to seek peace with-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... those powers rather than try to rebel against them.

David: Right, which is a nice color to add to the submission conversation.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: 'Cause sometimes it's like submitting to an, a, an evil authority-

Seth: Uh-huh

David: ... who's doing you harm can just seem like, in order to do that, I feel like I'd have to put myself in harm's way unnecessarily-

Seth: Uh-huh

David: ... or disobey one of God's laws or be stupid or something.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And it's like, okay, let's think about it this way. Pursue peace with them.

Seth: Right. Don't ostracize yourself from them in the way-

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... that they're ostracizing themselves from you.

David: Yeah, pursue them.

Seth: Pursue reconciliation with them.

David: Yeah, lean into that.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: Why, hey, why are you beating me? [laughs]

Seth: [laughs] That would, that would've been a hard conversation.

David: That would've been a hard conversation between a slave and master.

Seth: Um, and yeah.

David: Yeah, okay.

Seth: That was a heavy episode last time.

David: That was. Yes, it was. Yes, it was.

Seth: Uh, but-

David: Uh, and then, yeah, verse 12 continuing the Psalm, "For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil." So another way, another blessing you're obtaining here is God listens to your prayers.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And he's looking at you, and he's near you, and he sees you, and he reveals himself to you.

Seth: Which is exactly what he told husbands would happen if they did not treat their wives well.

David: Oh, right.

Seth: Your prayers would be hindered.

David: Oh.

Seth: And he says it again in a couple verses in 1 Peter 4:7.

David: Mm.

Seth: "The end of all things is at hand. Therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers."

David: Yeah.

Seth: One of the primary blessings of a life in God's family, in God's story, is that God listens to you-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... and he saves you.

David: Yeah, which is-A little world-shattering, I think, for a lot of Christians because I think there's, there's a general assumption in the world that God hears every prayer

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and that he-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and by hears we have to define what we mean by hear.

Seth: Yeah. But, like, does something about it.

David: Does something about it.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Listens and responds.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Uh, God knows every prayer. Um, God knows every word not directed at him, too.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Uh, but it's, it's interesting to be like, did you know that like God answers prayers and listens to the prayers of his people, the people who are-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... suffering for righteousness sake in a different way than he interacts with prayers of people who are doing evil for evil.

Seth: It's one of the benefits of part of being, having God as your father.

David: Yeah.

Seth: He listens to the requests of his children-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... more than the requests of people that are not his children.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Not that God doesn't respond to the pe- the prayers of-

David: Oh, right

Seth: ... many people outside of his family-

David: Right

Seth: ... but he as a father has a specific affinity, care, love, affection, and fatherly priority for his children.

David: Right.

Seth: Right?

David: Yep, yep. Okay. Those are all good blessings.

Seth: All great blessings.

David: A, a life you'll love.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: A morally upright life.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Uh, a life where God listens to your prayers and you see his face.

Seth: And the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.

David: Right.

Seth: He will judge the evil doers. He will judge your oppressors.

David: Uh-huh.

Seth: The slave master who refuses to stop beating you will be judged.

David: Oh, okay, so that's interesting. So another reason you don't repay evil for evil is God will judge that.

Seth: Mm-hmm. "Vengeance is mine-"

David: Right

Seth: ... says the Lord.

David: Says the Lord.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Which is Paul's version-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... of this, this talk in Romans 12.

Seth: It's like we don't need to do that. God will.

David: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay.

Seth: Um.

David: Okay.

Seth: So that's-

David: I'm, I'm on board.

Seth: Yeah. So why do we suffer for righteousness sake? Why do we do the right thing when it doesn't earn us anything? Because God will bless us for it.

David: Mm.

Seth: He'll listen to our prayers.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Um-

David: It might not earn us anything with the relationship that we're being harmed in and are trying to do good.

Seth: Not necessarily. Maybe.

David: It may. It might. It just may be-

Seth: It might

David: ... in Peter's words.

Seth: Yep.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But we know the-

Seth: Mm

David: ... inevitability, like, of the blessing we will receive from God.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Okay.

Seth: And he, this is what he says. Uh, "Even if you should suffer for righteousness sake, you will be blessed."

David: Yeah.

Seth: "So have no fear of them, your persecutors."

David: Mm.

Seth: "Don't be troubled by them. But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason,"

David: [laughs]

Seth: "the hope that is in you, and do it with gentleness and respect."

David: I love the context for that, that phrase. I don't know if h- how many of our listeners verse 15 is like a famous memory verse for.

Seth: It is a famous memory verse.

David: Yeah. But it's like, "Always be prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you the reason for your hope." And it's like, I mean, I was told that one in AWANAs growing up, you know.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like growing up in church it was just like-

Seth: This-

David: ... always, always have an apologetic in your back pocket, a way to defend your faith. But the c- the wider context of this book is really interesting for that 'cause it's like-

Seth: It is

David: ... it's like, okay, so you are a weirdo in a foreign kingdom, and they all go to orgies and you don't. And someone's gonna come to you and be like, "Why didn't you come to the orgy?" [laughs]

Seth: Yeah. [laughs]

David: I'm saying orgy because-

Seth: It-

David: ... it's in chapter four.

Seth: It's coming. Okay.

David: So anyway.

Seth: We'll get to the orgies. [laughs]

David: We'll get to that. Uh-

Seth: After the souls in prison.

David: Yeah. [laughs]

Seth: [laughs]

David: And then it's like when someone asks me why I didn't, like, why, why I didn't do that-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... I n- I can't just say, "Well, I just, I wasn't feeling good." Or it's like-

Seth: Uh-huh

David: ... "Oh, I just, it just didn't sound fun to me"

Seth: Yeah

David: ... would be to not obey this command.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Is that, like, the point of living differently in the world is so people do ask this question.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: It's like, "What's, what's up with you?"

Seth: Yeah.

David: And you need to be ready for that question-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... to give people a reason-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... for the hope that's in you. Well, it's because I don't live here. Like, I know I live here, but I don't belong here.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And they're like, "Okay, yeah, you're real, a definitely weirdo."

Seth: Yeah.

David: You know. But anyway.

Seth: Read the next sentence. "Having a good... So do with gentleness, respect-"

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... having a good conscience so that when you are slandered-

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... those that revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame."

David: Yeah.

Seth: So think about, again, the faithful spouse in a pagan marriage. Like, her husband will try to slander her new faith, and we, as we talked about in that podcast, the Roman government official said she was a threat to civilized society-

David: Right

Seth: ... because she wasn't following the, the, the, uh, religion of her husband. And so when they try to criticize her, all they'll be able to point to is her love, her gentleness, her respect, her kindness-

David: Mm

Seth: ... her not speaking lies, and they'll have nothing to bring against her.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And they will be shamed for ever accusing a follower of Jesus for being a threat to the moral and social order.

David: Mm.

Seth: It's like, this is like, like you said, like, apologetic, but there is an apologetic thrust to this.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Where-

David: And it's your life

Seth: ... and it's your life.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah. That's really interesting. Oh, man. Okay. Oh, I had a thought and I can't remember it now.

Seth: I wa- the, I was struck in this conversation recently as I was thinking about this verse. I've heard in just, like, American political discourse-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... that, one, that Christians are right to respond to the hatred and heat from, uh, the secular media, secular elite-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... with violence and fire and heat in return.

David: Oh.

Seth: We've gotta repay like for like, because the game has so fundamentally been changed.

David: Right.

Seth: Like, they're calling us baby killers. They're calling us whatever, whatever it is.

David: Yep.

Seth: Bigots.

David: Yep.

Seth: Homophobes.

David: Okay, fine. We'll go picket your event.

Seth: Right. So it's, there's been such... So that, that was the argument.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Because the heat has been so ratcheted up-

David: Mm

Seth: ... because we're now, they're-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... we're, we're justified in responding in kind.

David: It's a com- it's a competition of who can scream the loudest.

Seth: Right. And I was just, had that in the back of my mind, and I've been trying to, like, wrestle with that because, like, okay, the conversation has changed in America-

David: Right

Seth: ... at the very least.

David: Yeah.

Seth: But when I read something like this I'm like-I don't know if the level of my conversations about faith in the public sphere-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... which is where this is happening-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... right? Persecuted in the public sphere would stand the test of what Peter is calling me to do.

David: Mm.

Seth: To suffer for righteousness sake, to willingly do so, to do it with gentleness and respect, with a good conscience, so much that when I am slandered by the elite in power, they're shamed for it-

David: Right

Seth: ... bringing up the accusation.

David: Right. I mean, it's inter- I mean, I'm sure so many people listening right now have had an experience within the last year probably online-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... of saying something online about your faith-

Seth: Yep

David: ... and being reviled for it for some reason.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And it was probably very petty.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And you probably were petty back. [laughs]

Seth: Right, because why wouldn't you be?

David: That's what the internet is.

Seth: [laughs] That's what it's to be.

David: That's what Twitter is for.

Seth: [laughs]

David: That's what comment sections are for. [laughs]

Seth: [laughs]

David: And so, like, uh, what does it look like to pursue peace with the petty online?

Seth: Yeah.

David: You know, and it's like, that would put them to shame. [laughs]

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: As if your whole Twitter profile was so peace-pursuant that no one could retweet something from three years ago that says like, "Oh, but look, you used to be petty"

Seth: Uh-huh

David: And they are not put to shamed.

Seth: Yeah.

David: It's like, what if you lived this consistent, holy life that no one could get mad at you for? [laughs]

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, and if they did, they would be the ones who were ashamed, but not because you put them to shame by being like, "No, actually, you're the hypocrite," or-

Seth: Right

David: ... "You're the idiot," or-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... "Your logic is inconsistent," uh, or, "Your news sources are flawed." [laughs]

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: It's, um, just the, the, the presence of your consistent good life-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... is the thing.

Seth: Yes.

David: That's very interesting.

Seth: And that's why Peter says, "It's better to suffer for doing good, if that's God's will-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... than for doing evil." Christians should be known as people who are the ones who continue to do good, who continue to act in gentleness, truthfulness, respect-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... even when doing evil against, uh, because that's God's way to bless them and the world.

David: Yeah.

Seth: That's the better thing.

David: Okay. I have two-

Seth: Yes

David: ... real-world examples.

Seth: Okay.

David: Um, so one was like, happens on our YouTube channel quite a bit.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Or at least it used to when we had a lot more time to answer comments.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But we would get just, like, these long, ranting, angry comments about usually a misconception of something we were trying to say.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And it was usually from another Christian.

Seth: Yep.

David: And they'd be like, "Oh, I can't believe you said blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And they would just get... They were really heated and usually pretty angry, and would usually point to language. And I would write back, like, um, validating their zeal for God's word. And be like-

Seth: Right

David: ... "Man, I'm so thankful that you care so deeply about this."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "Thanks for asking these questions, for making sure we're doing the right thing. Uh, and you're right about this, this, this, this, and this. Um, I just wanted to add a clarification point here."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And just, just doing it with peace and love and not-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... being reactive, but just like... And, and expecting to be like, "Whatever, mer, mer, mer" in return.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And instead, we'd be like, "Oh." People would be like, "Oh, thank you. That's actually really kind. Sorry. This is great. You've got a new subscriber."

Seth: [laughs]

David: You know, I was like, there we go.

Seth: Right.

David: Uh, so-

Seth: That's just like a, it's a small example of what Peter's talking about here.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And the, and the other one, um, I was just, I was like, okay, being reviled for your good behavior-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... that then ends up putting people to shame. I just remember there was a time, uh, get a little personal here.

Seth: Okay.

David: But I don't care. Uh...

Seth: [laughs] You just don't care.

David: I don't care. Uh, we were at a wedding, and we were sitting around a table, and, like, it was pretty evident we were the only, like, practicing Christians [laughs] in the room, or at least at the table.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And, um, and it, it, you started talking about, like, all our past relationships. Everybody was married.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And they were talking about past relationships and everything. And it, it turned, it turned out that they found out that Megan and I waited until marriage.

Seth: Yes.

David: And no one believed us. They were laughing at us. Not mean.

Seth: Right.

David: But they just were in utter disbelief.

Seth: Right.

David: And then once they realized we weren't joking-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... they started asking how on earth we pulled it off. 'Cause we dated for six years.

Seth: Right.

David: And, and we were just, and we just kinda talked about God and the Holy Spirit.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And we talked about, like, how we just had a better hope, that, like, what we wanted from God was better than what we wanted physically from each other.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And it ended up, like, just, like, bringing shame-

Seth: Mm

David: ... in a good way.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, 'cause we weren't shaming them.

Seth: Right, right.

David: We were just telling our own story.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And it just, you could tell that they were like, "Man, I, like, I wish I had contact with something like that."

Seth: Right.

David: Uh, and so it's just interesting. I'm just like-

Seth: It is interesting

David: ... this is real. Like-

Seth: Right

David: ... I'm just trying to also bring it out of the first century and into, like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... some moments.

Seth: And it's not something, I don't hear this talked about a ton.

David: Mm.

Seth: Suffering for righteousness sake, bringing its own reward in this life in your relationship with other people. I hear it-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... on, like, when you suffer for Jesus' sake-

David: Yep

Seth: ... you'll be resurrected on the last day.

David: That's right.

Seth: Which is true.

David: You'll be a martyr under the throne.

Seth: And w-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... we're gonna get to that in, like-

David: Right

Seth: ... literally the next verse.

David: Yes. [laughs]

Seth: But it's like, there is a pretty profound sense that the good behavior of Christians following God's commands transforms the people around them.

David: Yeah. Yep. It... We are salt and light-

Seth: Yes

David: ... to go back to the Sermon on the Mount.

Seth: And I think that's an undersold part of the gospel.

David: Mm.

Seth: I think w- way we hear it, it's like we are partners with God to remake the Garden, repopulate the Garden of Eden, and see the Kingdom of God spread throughout the world.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And as we live the kingdom ethic, people are compelled to join the Kingdom of God.

David: Right.

Seth: Like, this is us doing garden work.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Seeing the kingdom expand-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... through our good work. Like, that's... Anyway, it's just like-

David: Yeah. It's really good.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Um, okay.You, you ready to, to get weird?

Seth: I'm ready to get so weird.

David: All right, verses 18 through 22, some of, uh, just, just out of context entirely.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Uh, one of the lines in here we're gonna talk about has how many interpretations-

Seth: Oh, I-

David: ... by one commentator?

Seth: One commentator said there's 100... There's a, a branching tree of 180 different-

David: [laughs]

Seth: ... possible-

David: Interpretations

Seth: ... interpretations of the next several verses.

David: But we got the right one. We- [laughs]

Seth: [laughs]

David: So much humility.

Seth: So much humility coming to this podcast. Um-

David: Um, okay, so, uh, verse 18, um, "For Christ suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God." This is really good news.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Uh, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit-

Seth: So pause for a second.

David: Okay, yep, there we go.

Seth: Um, that's proving everything he's just said.

David: Yeah, the, the suffering for righteousness ne- sake and you will be blessed is proven in that the fact that Jesus suffered for sins-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... as a righteous person for the unrighteous-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and now he can bring us to God.

Seth: That's right. So, so, like, that's the-

David: Yeah, the death-

Seth: So-

David: ... burial, and resurrection proves this.

Seth: Right, and what we've, we've just been talking about on a human plane, where, like, our good works affect those around us, he's, like, now elevated. Now, the good works you do here because of Jesus, we will see in eternity.

David: Yep.

Seth: Jesus' sacrificial death, the righteous for the unrighteous, will bring us to make us alive in eternity with God forever.

David: There's an eternal proof to what I've just said.

Seth: Yes.

David: Okay. Good. So he was made alive in the spirit in which he went, Jesus went, and proclaimed to the spirits in prison because they formerly did not obey when God's patience waited in the days of Noah-

Seth: Noah

David: ... while the ark was being prepared [laughs] in which a few, that is eight persons in all, were brought safely through the water. Okay, I'll stop there. Uh, Jesus went in the spirit after being put to death to the spirits in prison and proclaimed to them something-

Seth: Uh-huh

David: ... because they di- they formerly didn't obey back in the days of Noah. What?

Seth: We- [laughs] We're like, "I got you." And, like, we're talking about repairing marriages and how-

David: [laughs]

Seth: ... like, all this stuff is happening. Let's rewind the clock and start talking about spirits in the days of Noah. It seems odd.

David: It's, uh... Yeah, it's, it's, it's a strange one.

Seth: But what's gonna help you understand this, and we're gonna talk about this passage three different times over the course of several podcasts.

David: Yeah.

Seth: We're gonna talk about it here, we're gonna talk about it again in 2 Peter, and we're gonna talk about it again in the Book of Jude.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Because every single one of these books has this story in it-

David: Yep

Seth: ... using it for different purposes.

David: Yep.

Seth: So it's actually a really important biblical thing-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... to be aware of because now we have three New Testament letters pulling on this tradition.

David: Yeah, and it's a tradition of a weird story that most Christians don't either know about-

Seth: Yep

David: ... or have no idea how to talk about it.

Seth: Now, we all know the story of Noah, or most of us do.

David: Yep, yep, and that's not the one we're talking about. [laughs]

Seth: But right before-

David: It's a-

Seth: Literally-

David: Literally

Seth: ... right before Noah and the flood, that whole story, there's, I think it's five verses in Genesis.

David: Yeah, it's super short.

Seth: Um-

David: Yeah, whatever it is, it's super short.

Seth: Yeah, it's, it's, like, five verses in Genesis.

David: But it's, it's a very interesting five verses. [laughs]

Seth: It's super interesting five verses.

David: It's eight. It's eight verses.

Seth: Eight.

David: Okay.

Seth: Uh, and it ends with, "But Noah found favor in the sight of the Lord."

David: Okay.

Seth: And it is the f- story of the sons of God seeing the daughters of men, coming down to Earth, having sex with them-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and creating a, a, a nation of giants. [laughs]

David: These are called the Nephilim.

Seth: The Nephilim. And now, most people don't wanna touch that story-

David: Right

Seth: ... at all.

David: But Peter's like, "Let's go." [laughs]

Seth: Peter's all in on it.

David: All in on the Nephilim.

Seth: So twice, he's gonna use it twice.

David: Yep.

Seth: And so will Jude.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Um, and what's fascinating is he's using this in a context about the righteous suffering-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and the inevitable glory and resurrection that they will experience.

David: Yeah, and the inevitable punishment for the unrighteous.

Seth: That's right.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So we're, we need to know the story.

David: We have to know the story, yep.

Seth: And Peter's all in on it and how it proves his point.

David: Oh, okay. So do we need to set up the story of Genesis or-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... have you, have you done the work there?

Seth: I don't know if I've done all the work there.

David: Okay.

Seth: So let's, let me just say the story again.

David: Okay.

Seth: So Genesis 6 begins with this strange spiritual fall.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: You have these sons of God-

David: Yep

Seth: ... whoever they are, lust-

David: Spiritual beings

Seth: ... spiritual beings lusting after physical beings-

David: Yep, helpful

Seth: ... the daughters, daughters of men-

David: Yep

Seth: ... and creating this hybrid demonic species of beings called the Nephilim.

David: Okay, so you have sp- spiritual beings-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... lusting after human women-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... h- somehow copulating-

Seth: Right

David: ... and creating half spiritual, half human, I don't even know if that's the right mix, people-

Seth: That's-

David: ... gods, things.

Seth: That's one... So that's the weirdest way to read it.

David: Okay.

Seth: But the net result is that all of humanity is now implicated in wickedness.

David: Mm.

Seth: So whether that's a spiritual being mating with a physical woman-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... or two physical people, m- like, just having spiritually wicked people after them, the net result of this spirits in prison is that the whole world falls under wickedness, the flood must come, and Noah must build the ark and save. That's the, the general storyline. Does, does it... Did I say that clearly enough?

David: I think so. Let me, let me, let me... So, so this was a, this, this to you, you're, you're explaining as a cataclysmic event-

Seth: Yep

David: ... a catalytic event I should say-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... in which, um, this kind of paradigmatic fall represented in the Nephilim-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... um, ended up spreading almost genealogically [laughs]

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... through all of mankind so that the entire earth was in, you know, in that day, wherever they were, covered with wickedness.

Seth: The Lord saw how great the wickedness the human race had become on the earth and that every inclination of the tharts- thoughts of a human heart were, was only evil all the time.

David: Right.

Seth: This was a... This is the next verse after the story about the Nephilim.

David: Right.

Seth: Whoever they are, however you define them, that's, whatever spiritual reality is happening there infects the whole earth.

David: Right. And so, and then, this isn't... And then this, this part of the story isn't in the n- the Old Testament. This is not in the Bible.

Seth: The one I just said was

David: No, no, no, sorry. I'm sorry-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... no, but the, what I'm about to say.

Seth: Oh, what

David: I'm sorry.

Seth: Okay.

David: What I'm about to say is not in the Bible, but it was in Peter's mind-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and it was probably in his audience's mind.

Seth: Mm-hmm, yeah.

David: And it's from, oh, some of the intertestamental books.

Seth: Whoa.

David: And this is the idea, many, many, many of them talk about this moment-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and say that those fallen sons of God, the Nephilim, were consigned to prison.

Seth: Yep.

David: That they were put in prison, spirit, spirit prison.

Seth: Yep.

David: And so that's what he's referencing here.

Seth: That's what he's referencing.

David: The, the, the spirits in prison with the reference to the punishment that followed that Noah escaped.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Everyone would've been like, "Oh, great. It's the Nephilim that fell and were put in prison."

Seth: Yep.

David: That's what we're talking about here.

Seth: That's what... And so it took us a long time to get there.

David: Yeah.

Seth: But if you grow up with all the science fiction literature of your day-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... talking about the Nephilim, like, you g- you get it. Oh, we're-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... talking about that story-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... where there was a big fall, s- the, you know, the Chitauri come down from the portal that Loki set up. Like, a lot of people just got that.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Not everybody.

David: Not everybody.

Seth: But, like, a lot of you just got what I was talking about.

David: Avengers, the first Avengers movie.

Seth: The, the first A- first Avengers movie. And you're like, "Okay, I know what Peter's talking about here."

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: So Peter is pulling on an, the Book of Genesis and popular literature of, on his time-

David: Yep

Seth: ... to make the point he's been making the whole book-

David: Yep

Seth: ... that inevitable suffering leads to inevitable resurrection.

David: Right.

Seth: And so what he does here, he says, "Okay, God, he was put to death in the flesh and made alive in the Spirit." Now, what did he do when he was made alive in the Spirit?

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: He proclaimed, I think, his victory over evil.

David: Yeah.

Seth: What has he been talking about? How our good works will-

David: Will triumph over evil

Seth: ... will triumph over evil.

David: Yeah.

Seth: He proclaims that he has defeated evil, those, that ancient evil, the Nephilim, are finally destroyed. Those spirits in prison have been conquered by the resu- death and resurrection of Jesus, and because they, a- and he says, "Because they formerly did not obey."

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Like, this is the reason why he preached to the spiritual powers. They did not obey in times past, but what happened next? Noah built an ark-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and eight people were saved.

David: Right.

Seth: What's this all about? God, because of Jesus' death and resurrection, proclaimed victory over the evil powers and proclaimed a real way for people to escape judgment-

David: Yep

Seth: ... and inevitably experience resurrection.

David: Right.

Seth: That's what he's saying.

David: That's what he's saying.

Seth: I think. [laughs]

David: I agree. Yeah, because he then combines the flood and the story of Noah with our baptism.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And he, yeah, and he says that-

Seth: Baptism, which corresponds to this. [laughs]

David: Yeah. And it's like, oh, okay, so when I'm baptized, I'm going into the ark.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Which means I'm going into Christ. [laughs]

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Which means that I get to escape the flood around me of the waters of baptism that would've been my judgment. I would've gone down under the water and stayed there and drowned, just like the people who lived during the time of the Nephilim.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Uh, but instead, I get inevitable resurrection because that pastor's not gonna leave me down under the water. [laughs] He's gonna-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... pull me up.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And I can breathe again.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And that's our resurrection, and it's inevitable.

Seth: It's inevitable.

David: Okay.

Seth: Um, that was a whole lot.

David: That's, that's a, that's a lot.

Seth: It's a whole lot. Uh, but do you wanna hear just another fun fact?

David: Oh, always.

Seth: So in which that a few, that is eight persons.

David: Uh-huh.

Seth: Um, some scholars point to the fact, the number eight's significant because the number eight's the beginning of a new creation week.

David: Right. Seven, he created the Earth in six days, rested on the seventh, and then-

Seth: On the eighth day

David: ... on the eighth day

Seth: ... you're reborn.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Baptism, which corresponds to this.

David: Mm.

Seth: You're reborn-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... out of your old ways-

David: Into a new creation

Seth: ... into a new creation-

David: A new-

Seth: ... a new life in-

David: Kingdom

Seth: ... Jesus, a new kingdom.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And which is striking because the next thing he's gonna talk about in chapter four is the new life that we're called out of and into, an old life of sensuality, and passion, and lust-

David: Oh

Seth: ... and a new life of, uh, h- does he, when does he define it? How does he define it? Um, he doesn't define it for a while. [laughs] He's like, uh, out of that life into a life-

David: Into, yeah

Seth: ... marked by resurrection.

David: Yeah. And for, for, uh, I just wanna name a feeling, and then I have a question, but there's probably a feeling of like, I don't think I caught that.

Seth: Yeah.

David: You know? I think a lot of people are like, "You lost me at, you know, around minute five of Nephilim talk."

Seth: Yeah.

David: Um, that's okay. He sums it up for us.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Peter sums it up for us in chapter, or in verse 22 of chapter three, the last verse of chapter three. "Je- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities and powers having been subjected to him."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: That the, the, the, the fallen angels, the Nephilim, these disobedient-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... sons of God, have been judged and have now, Jesus is now ruling over them.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: They were evil, and they have inevitably lost. He's saying, but Jesus suffered as a righteous person and now inevitably rules.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: A- and so y- we too can rule over the Nephilim, [laughs] over-

Seth: Right

David: ... all the spiritual evil of the past.

Seth: That's right. And think about, think about the way that in the Genesis story, spiritual evil and humanity's evil are just interlocked.

David: We're impregnated with it, in a sense.

Seth: And so when you have... Why is he s- talking about spiritual powers all of a sudden? Because you've been talking about th- these lived realities of powers, citizens, spouses-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... slaves and masters, where they are in sinful institutions-

David: Mm

Seth: ... that deserve judgment.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And they... And so Peter's zooming back out to the spiritual battle to say, "Don't you know that we have... Jesus was victorious over the spiritual powers behind the ones that-

David: Yes

Seth: ... infuse our government-

David: Yes

Seth: ... and our relationships, and our masters, uh, and our employment. Like, that has been won over already.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So if that greater battle has been fought, what about when you do righteousness, how much more certain is the fact that your blessing will come-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... resurrection will come-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... in that moment?

David: Yeah. Man, I love thinking about exile, sojourning, intertangled evil systems with the flood.Next to it because it's, it's an interesting question to be like if you are legitimately processing this world view that first Peter's asking you-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... to inhabit-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... that you are a stranger, a foreigner, an alien wherever you are because you live on fallen Earth.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And then you start thinking about the flood or, or you ask the question-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... like how on Earth could God judge all of this around me and yet redeem parts of it?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: You know, it like doesn't make... It, it seems like an impossible task 'cause it's like, you know, if, if you go down to the state capital, how much of the state capital is wicked and de- deserves to be judged? But then how many people inside of it are actually repaying evil for good? You know? Like it's just like if a new flood is gonna come, but there's an ark, and that ark is Jesus. And I'm just like Jesus is the way to escape this intertangled world of evil.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Are you thinking something, too?

Seth: I... Yes.

David: Okay.

Seth: So one, to land your pl- land your plane with you.

David: To put my boat on the, on the mountain.

Seth: To put your boat on [laughs]

David: [laughs]

Seth: You got me with that one.

David: [laughs]

Seth: Um, okay, I don't know if this docks your boat-

David: [laughs]

Seth: ... but this is what I've been, I've been thinking of. Um, when after the flood-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... God promised his, to never judge the Earth again-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... in that way. Never send a flood again.

David: Right.

Seth: So that is kind of a prediction that the world will always be intertwined in that way.

David: Right.

Seth: And there won't be a day of judgment like there was in the past.

David: A total indiscriminatory kind of judgment.

Seth: Right.

David: Jesus even said the wheat and the tares, you know-

Seth: Right. They grow up together

David: ... it's like they're gonna grow up together and then I will come and delicately pick out.

Seth: Right.

David: I'll untangle the mess.

Seth: And it makes me think about the-

David: And he, he says he's gonna use angels to do that. Anyway, just wanted to loop that back in.

Seth: Oh, that's right.

David: Yeah. [laughs]

Seth: He does. You know, it made me think about the criticism a lot of people have of this part of the Bible, especially about the, the, the household code section-

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... is like why doesn't-

David: The husband, husband stuff

Seth: ... why doesn't God just blow it all up?

David: Oh.

Seth: Well, he promised he wouldn't.

David: Right. We have to coexist with the intertangled mess.

Seth: And what does Peter say? In 2 Peter, he brings up this same point again because there's these false teachers saying like, "See you guys, nothing's happening in the world." He says, "No, no, no. God isn't being slow to judge evil like we're saying."

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: "He's being patient so that evildoers will one... can repent."

David: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Seth: And so I'm just, I'm just meditating on like, yeah, you're right. There's this conjoined nature, the spiritual and f- governmental-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... and social evil combined together that God has promised in patience to wait-

David: Mm

Seth: ... so that more people could come to know him.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Um-

David: That's nice.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah. [laughs] That's good.

Seth: And I've been... I j- I'm just, the... I'm just seeing how p- 1 Peter and 2 Peter are talking to each other a little bit more-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... and that-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... I think is interesting.

David: Well, that's great.

Seth: And to... And-

David: Yes

Seth: ... the ark is Jesus.

David: Yes.

Seth: You said it.

David: Yes.

Seth: Like so what is the way out of this new intertwined world that won't see a flood like before?

David: Right.

Seth: The ark is Jesus.

David: Right.

Seth: We can get in the ark and be promised resurrection.

David: Yeah, because we are uniting ourselves to the inevitable resurrection that his dead, righteous body already went through. [laughs]

Seth: That's right.

David: Yeah. [laughs]

Seth: That's right.

David: Yeah. It's like, which is like the ark already survived a storm.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Go get in that ark, you know? Jesus already went through death and resurrection, go join him in the grave in baptism.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: There's an inevitability to it because he has repeated that story of death and resurrection throughout the whole Bible, culminating his own death and resurrection. There's an inevitability to it. If you suffer for righteousness sake, you will inevitably be raised. [gentle music]

Seth: So the point Peter's been making over and over and over again, going from all the way back to Noah to how you live in your marriage, is that inevitable suffering in this life-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... brings about inevitable resurrection.

David: Yep.

Seth: Um, and that is not just a truth-

David: Mm

Seth: ... that we need to know. I think it's like a worldview we need to embody.

David: Okay.

Seth: Like, um, verse f- 4:1, "Since therefore Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourself with the same way of thinking, for whoever has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin."

David: Mm.

Seth: So we've been talking, um, inevitable suffering leads to inevitable glory.

David: Yeah.

Seth: That is the, the, the, the, the trajectory of every Christian's life.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Um, and when I say it's a, a truth we need to embody-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... it's-

David: A worldview

Seth: ... a worldview we need to body. It's like we need to put our bodies on the line for this.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like, right? Like there's something actually physically and lit that actually has to happen. This isn't just a spiritual reality.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: It's not just a interesting metaphor that ties back to Noah. And when we do so-

David: Mm

Seth: ... in a very real way, Peter is confident to say that we have ceased from sin.

David: Yeah, meaning we've overcome that intertwined nature-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... of sin that has been in the world-

Seth: Right

David: ... from almost the beginning.

Seth: When we are willing to suffer for righteousness sake-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... it, it by definition means we've ceased from sin. [laughs]

David: We've transferred kingdoms.

Seth: We've transferred kingdoms.

David: Yeah, we're on the eighth day.

Seth: Yes.

David: Okay. I get that.

Seth: Yep.

David: I get that. That's good. Yeah.

Seth: So if that's true-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... we need to live the rest of our lives-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... not for human passions, but for the will of God. So like what does that mean lived out in our lives? And he goes on this long list of things. Well, it's, it's... The time has passed for things like sensuality and drunkenness and orgies and drinking parties and lawless idolatries.

David: [laughs]

Seth: And your friends are surprised when you don't.

David: Right.

Seth: And I think it's interesting, the flood of debauchery.

David: Oh, yeah, that's interesting.

Seth: He's, he's pulling on the same-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... metaphor he's already used.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And the point is that we should no longer do those things-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... because that's part of our old way of life, a pre-flood way of life, a Nephilimic way of life.

David: [laughs] Nephilimic way of life.

Seth: Which is a great phrase-

David: I love that

Seth: ... I just made up. [laughs]

David: Yeah.

Seth: Um, and instead-Oh, wait, wait. Yeah, David's eyes-

David: Oh

Seth: ... just got so big for, for a second.

David: Sorry. Yeah, I just was thinking about how you had this, this broken world where-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... man's thoughts were evil only all the time, and then God flooded the world and brought a righteous- righteousness out of it.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: A righteous Noah-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... out of it. And it's like he used the whole world to tell the story of the Christian-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... where it's like, uh, you know, you have the world, and then it's washed-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and then you have a clean man on the other side.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And it's like you have this person, we'll call him David. [laughs]

Seth: Like David Wooden?

David: Like me.

Seth: Like [laughs]

David: Uh, who just... My thoughts were only evil all the time, and I was enslaved to sin, and then I was washed.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: I got in the ark, you know?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Uh, and now I'm a righteous man on the other side.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: I have surely ceased from sin.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Uh, anyway, so-

Seth: This is cool.

David: Anyway, I just, I just hadn't ever thought about that, like the flood being a picture of our own salvation.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like-

Seth: Well-

David: ... that, that way of like the earth-

Seth: Right

David: ... being cleansed in a sense.

Seth: Right, because beyond... I mean, Peter, he, he says it not as dirt from the body.

David: Right.

Seth: But he's like, he's pulling on this idea that, which we didn't talk about in-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... this section beforehand, but, like, the type of washing the flood did was this spiritual cleansing.

David: Yeah, it was a ple- a, a ple- a pledge of a good conscience towards God that-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... now there is righteousness on the earth.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Yeah. Anyway, okay.

Seth: Uh, so-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... the point is now that we are on this side of the f- on this side of God's resurrection-

David: We, we are no longer in the old Nephilimic way of life.

Seth: That's right. And before he goes on to the way that we're supposed to live, uh, he kind of gives an apologetic against those maligning-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... uh, Christians for the way they live. So you're, you know, you're, you're not, you're saving it for marriage.

David: Right, right, right.

Seth: And the whole wedding table is getting onto you about it.

David: Right. [laughs]

Seth: They will give an account to him who's ready to judge the living and the dead.

David: Yeah.

Seth: The rest of the world will give an account for the God who judges all people, just like he did in the days of Noah. This is why the gospel was preached to those believing Christians who are now dead, although they have been judged in the flesh the way people are. This is a confusing passage-

David: Yes

Seth: ... but I'm trying out my best here. They might live in the Spirit the way that God does.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: We as Christians will one day die.

David: Yep.

Seth: But, and but that judgment and death, the way all people must die, will end in resurrection life.

David: Right.

Seth: Most people in the pagan society in general just denied the reality of judgment after death.

David: Yeah, they were like, "You're gonna die, so why not do everything you can-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... while, while you're, while you're alive."

Seth: The only judgment we receive is the judgment in this life-

David: Right

Seth: ... for doing stupid stuff. So don't-

David: So don't get caught.

Seth: Don't get caught. Don't do stupid stuff. Don't do harm. Just-

David: Right

Seth: ... have fun.

David: Yeah, do no harm.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah. It's like, uh, yeah. It's like a cool, quote, unquote, "cool mom" sending her son out to do everything she knows is just immoral-

Seth: Right

David: ... she probably wouldn't call it immoral, and she's like, "Just don't be stupid"-

Seth: Right

David: ... is what she might say on her way out.

Seth: Because there's no final account.

David: Right.

Seth: And Peter's saying, "No, no, no, there is a day coming of judgment even for the dead. But to those who have died believing in Jesus, the one who had baptized-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... in Jesus's death will raise up out of it."

David: Right.

Seth: So if that's true, then, "And the end of all things is at hand, be self-controlled, sober-minded for the sake of your prayers" again.

David: Mm, so interesting.

Seth: "Above all, keep loving one another earnestly since loving covers a multitude of sins," which is, again, what he brought up in the beginning of this chapter or the end of chapter three.

David: Mm.

Seth: "Show hospitality to ano- one another without grumbling. And as you've received gifts, use it to serve one another." And he lists a whole bunch of gifts God gives us-

David: Okay

Seth: ... for the benefit of others.

David: I mean, so it's like a, it's a very straightforward text. He's saying, um, the world and its kingdom and its way of, of living is full of drinking, passion, do whatever you want.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Uh, go to a party, lawless idolatry, whatever you wanna call it. You know, like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... have fun.

Seth: Yep.

David: Uh, and he's like, "Man, that's just not the way you live anymore. That was your Nephilimic state."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "But you've passed through the waters. You're in the ark, and now you actually can have the good life."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "You can be, have the blessed life-"

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... which is not the way they live. In fact, it's so different when you start living this way, where you're, you're good stewards of God's varied grace, and you're showing hospitality without grumbling, and you're loving people earnestly.

Seth: Uh-huh.

David: You're gonna look weird.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But that's the good life.

Seth: Uh-huh.

David: And so he's like, that's what he's saying. He's like, "There's a before and an after here," is all that's happening.

Seth: And that's exactly right. And I think another thing that's happening under the surface is that this good life of hospitality, love, is worth the cost.

David: Mm, yeah.

Seth: Suffering for this type of righteousness is worth the cost. Why? Death is not the end.

David: Right.

Seth: Suffering in this life is not the end.

David: We're playing the long game.

Seth: Right. W- what's the criticism of everybody who sees a Christian's moral lifestyle and said, "That's crazy."

David: Yeah.

Seth: Why would you ever deny yourself that? Why would you not? Why, why not join them?

David: Yeah, why, why wouldn't you go to-

Seth: Why don't you come to the party?

David: Yeah, why would you enjoin yourself to that party knowing that there's judgment on the other side? [laughs]

Seth: Right, and/or resurrection life-

David: Yeah, that you're missing out on

Seth: ... that you're missing out on.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So the, uh, the point is simple.

David: Yeah.

Seth: The point is, like, death and suffer- well, one, death and suffering are not proof the gospel's untrue.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: But death and suffering, suffering for righteousness' sake is the path down which hope and blessing are found-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... for God's people. Um, and no matter what anybody else says, no matter what the culture says, it's not true.

David: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, that's good.

Seth: Yep.

David: Okay, and then, and then so there's a, there's this last section where we've been talking a lot about suffering. We talked about suffering for righteousness sake, uh, suffering for doing good, uh-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and then, like, um, because we know there's resurrection on the other side, so we're gonna live differently because we're not in our Nephilimic state anymore.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: We're in our post-diluvian-

Seth: New phase. [laughs]

David: ... or post-diluvian state or after-

Seth: Post-flood

David: ... the flood, uh, state. Um, and then he just-... grounds the whole thing in some really powerful gospel-centered-

Seth: Mm

David: ... uh, sentences. It's amazing.

Seth: Verse 12, "Beloved, don't be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you."

David: Why is this happening to me?

Seth: We don't get to ask that question.

David: Yeah, it's like, don't be surprised.

Seth: Don't be surprised.

David: Yeah. It's not strange that it's happening. Don't, don't be surprised.

Seth: "Rejoice insofar as you share Christ's suffering."

David: This is happening to me. [laughs]

Seth: So-

David: Adding some flavor. Be like, this is the performed audio Bible.

Seth: I love it.

David: Okay.

Seth: Um, "So that you also may rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed."

David: Mm.

Seth: The co- I mean, I, I wanna, like, the conte- what's the gospel grounding of this? Suffering for righteousness' sake is suffering as Christ suffered.

David: Yeah.

Seth: It's not just you're acting like Jesus, you're l- suffering as Jesus, and you will be resurrected like Him as well.

David: I wanna point out one-

Seth: Uh-huh

David: ... um, just point of clarification.

Seth: Yes.

David: Uh, and if I'm wrong, you just tell me.

Seth: Okay.

David: Uh, in verse 12, "Don't be surprised at the fiery trial that comes upon you, as though something strange is happening," right?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "But join in Christ's sufferings. Rejoice in suffering."

Seth: Yep.

David: He's not talking about suffering in general, right? He's not talking about when the tornado hits your house.

Seth: No.

David: He's not talking about when a family member dies.

Seth: He, I th- I, I mean, I think it makes sense from everything we've read about suffering for righteousness' sake-

David: Yep

Seth: ... and suffering like Christ.

David: Right. When you're-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... when you're at the party and you waited till marriage and-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... you get made fun of.

Seth: Yes.

David: Don't be like, "What? Why would God let-

Seth: Right

David: ... why would God let me be maligned here?"

Seth: Right.

David: I thought... I, I stepped out on a limb and went out-

Seth: Mm

David: ... and I thought God would make it so everyone just applauds me and stands up, and I baptize everybody at the wedding.

Seth: Yep. [laughs]

David: Right.

Seth: Right.

David: No.

Seth: No, that, that's not the-

David: You're-

Seth: ... uh-

David: What kingdom are you living in?

Seth: [laughs] Yeah.

David: You're still in Babylon.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: Okay.

Seth: Yeah.

David: I get that.

Seth: Yeah, that, I think that is right.

David: Yeah.

Seth: I d- I also think it is true the other way. Like, there's a sense we share the situational sufferings of Christ, and Jesus promises a specific type of comfort, sympathy, and compassion for us.

David: Yes.

Seth: But I think here he's talking specifically about the suffering we experience for acting like Jesus, even to the point of death.

David: Right.

Seth: So it, it's like the, uh, being made fun of at the wedding is one type of persecution, and so is being thrown in prison-

David: Yes

Seth: ... and martyred for it.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Which is, was also happening in Peter's day and-

David: Yes

Seth: ... happens... Now, more Christians are killed now than-

David: Yep

Seth: ... any other point in history, I think.

David: Yep.

Seth: Um-

David: It's the most persecuted church era.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah, which is crazy. Okay, he says this thing here, um, "Insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, rejoice," sorry, "Insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when His glory is revealed."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: So it's interesting that it's like, if you don't rejoice when you suffer righteously now, you won't rejoice when He comes back in His second coming.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Why, why is that? Those seem a bit disconnected.

Seth: Yeah.

David: 'Cause I'm like, I'm going to rejoice when He comes back, 'cause it's gonna be a joyful day.

Seth: No, you won't.

David: What? What? Why not? [laughs]

Seth: B- because, you just said it. If you don't suffer for righteousness' sake now, you won't then. Doesn't that, does it make sense?

David: What?

Seth: The only people that rejoice when righteousness comes-

David: Oh

Seth: ... are the righteous. If you love unrighteousness, if you love wickedness, if you love sensuality, if you love your Nephilimic ways, you will not rejoice on the flood.

David: Right. You can only rejoice when the storm of the flood comes if you're in the ark. [laughs]

Seth: If you're in the ark. Like, that's why, so that's why we rejoice in our sufferings for righteousness' sake-

David: Because we know we're in the ark

Seth: ... 'cause we know we're in the ark.

David: [laughs]

Seth: And only people who are in the ark rejoi- suffer for righteousness' sake.

David: Yeah. Okay.

Seth: Does that make sense? [laughs]

David: That makes a lot of sense. That's good. Okay, that's good.

Seth: Um-

David: So if, and so then verse 14, "If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, uh, because the spirit of glory and of God rests upon you."

Seth: Mm.

David: That's, that's nice. So like a... It's another, like, assurance text.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, if you're persecuted-

Seth: I thought about in Acts 5 when Peter-

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... uh, is going before the Sanhedrin-

David: Oh, yes

Seth: ... and they flog him and beat him. What do they say when they leave? They rejoiced they were counted worthy to suffer dishonor for the name.

David: Mm.

Seth: And every day, they continued to preach.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Um, they figured it out early on. They, they realized to suffer then is to suffer with Christ and to experience His coming glory.

David: Okay, here we go. We are circling the drain on something. If you have stayed around till this point in the podcast-

Seth: Excellent

David: ... this is your reward.

Seth: This is your reward. [laughs]

David: Uh, you have suffered for righteousness' sake. [laughs]

Seth: [laughs]

David: Um, uh, th- I mean, like, 'cause y- you said that, and it made it, it made it click for me. 'Cause I'm like, this, this is what my brain did. I was like, okay, why would Peter immediately know that to suffer for the name is just worthy of rejoicing, you know? Like, why couldn't he been like, "Man, that really stinks that I had to s- be suff- I had to suffer for Jesus's name. It was worth it-"

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: "... but man, I would've preferred not to."

Seth: Yeah.

David: Would've been a completely logical response.

Seth: Right.

David: But you talked about a worldview that needs-

Seth: Mm

David: ... to be embodied, and that is because the creator of the world has shown us how the world works in coming, in suffering for righteousness' sake-

Seth: Mm

David: ... that led to His own resurrection.

Seth: Mm.

David: He has said, "You guys think you, you g- you 21st century people think you understand natural law. What goes up must come down."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: The, whatever the closed system second law of therdo- thermodynamics thing is.

Seth: Yep.

David: Those thing. I'm not a scientist. Uh, you know, you think you understand how the world works. Jesus dying on the cross for righteousness' sake and rising again shows how the world works.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: That when you suffer for righteousness' sake, for the sake of my name, you are-... proving just as sure as gravity that you will be raised.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: That's the way the world works.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So whenever you claim the name of Jesus and you suffer for it, that means you've gone up [laughs] and you will come down-

Seth: Yeah. Right

David: ... just like gravity.

Seth: You have ceased from sin.

David: Yeah.

Seth: You, you know, it's, it's a big deal.

David: It is just this assur- assurance-

Seth: Yes

David: ... text. The, you have the spirit of glory.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, anyway, that's just really helpful.

Seth: And think about, think about what John s- uh, Je- Jesus said-

David: Mm

Seth: ... to his disciples, including Peter-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... in the last room. "They're gonna put you out of the synagogue."

David: Right.

Seth: "They're gonna kill you."

David: Yeah.

Seth: "But very truly, I tell you, it's good that I'm going away because the advocate, the Holy Spirit will come-

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... to you and he's gonna teach you about sin and righteousness and judgment." That's the first thing he says.

David: Oh. So, like, Peter's unpacking that.

Seth: Peter is unpacking. [laughs]

David: The Holy Spirit has taught Peter what Jesus meant by that-

Seth: Yes

David: ... and now he's putting it in this epistle.

Seth: [laughs]

David: Thanks, Peter. [laughs]

Seth: [laughs]

David: That's helpful. That's awesome. I've always wondered what that was, and now it's just kinda cool to be like, "And then Peter wrote it down in 1 Peter."

Seth: Yeah. [laughs]

David: Okay. Anyway.

Seth: That's neat.

David: Yep. Um, okay. Yeah, yeah, "If anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in, uh, in that name for the time of judgment to begin at the household of God..." Oh wait, for the... Oh, for it is ti- this is a crazy thing. I forgot about this.

Seth: Yeah. Yeah.

David: "For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome of those who do not obey the gospel of God?"

Seth: Yeah.

David: There's, like, a lesser and greater degree thing happening here.

Seth: Yeah.

David: What have you thought about this verse?

Seth: I... This is a verse I don't have as much on as I w-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... wish I had.

David: [laughs]

Seth: Like, is there a biblical theological theme of, like, godly being judged before the ungodly?

David: Yeah.

Seth: I don't know.

David: I mean, I mean, I think about, like, Israel being judged preeminently among the nations and some-

Seth: Mm

David: ... of the, the minor prophets.

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David: And even, like, they were destroyed as Babylon was allowed to grow.

Seth: Yeah.

David: You know? But it should've been a precursor. It should've been an omen to Babylon-

Seth: Mm

David: ... that the God of Israel is not to be trifled with.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: If he judges his own people, how much more will he judge those who are not his?

Seth: That's right.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Even, I think, the phrase household of God is interesting for this. Like, who does a father correct first?

David: Right.

Seth: His own children.

David: Right.

Seth: And remember the story of Noah in this s- scenario when judgment comes.

David: Right. Yeah.

Seth: Um, they, they barely made it in the ark.

David: Right.

Seth: Right? The whole world, it was a f- a, a flood.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And they had one boat.

David: Yeah. [laughs]

Seth: It, it was, it was a skin of their teeth situation.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And what does the next verse say?

David: Yeah. "If the righteous is scarcely saved..."

Seth: What will become of the ungodly and the sinner?

David: Yeah.

Seth: I- the answer is implied. Like, judgment is coming for wickedness, inevitable judgment is coming for wickedness-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... but inevitable salvation for those that believe.

David: Yep. Yeah. "So therefore, when you suffer, entrust your soul to the faithful creator and keep doing good."

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah. [laughs] Okay. Uh, man, that... What's interesting about this is, and, uh, it makes me just want to be more bold.

Seth: In?

David: In claiming the name of Jesus everywhere I go.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: 'Cause I kinda just wanna get made fun of now.

Seth: Oh, right. [laughs]

David: So I can be, so I can be like, "Yes. Got them."

Seth: You know? Like, which is probably the wrong motivation.

David: Yeah.

Seth: You know what I mean?

David: Right, right.

Seth: [laughs]

David: It, it is the wrong motivation. [laughs]

Seth: [laughs]

David: We shouldn't seek suffering.

Seth: Right.

David: But I mean-

Seth: But we, but, like, we should be bold.

David: We should be bold, but remember, Peter's talking to people who could not be helped but be persecuted.

Seth: That's right. That's right.

David: It's not... They, they didn't have to go looking for suffering-

Seth: No. Right

David: ... because it was so self-evident to them.

Seth: Right. I don't have to, like... Yeah, I don't have to go and just be, like, an obnoxious evangelist to-

David: Right

Seth: ... the person ringing me up at the grocery store so that security would drag me out, and I could pump my fist in the parking lot.

David: There, there is probably, uh... You would not shame the powers by doing so. [laughs]

Seth: I'd be like, "Look at those annoying Christians."

David: Yeah.

Seth: Yeah. [laughs] Um-

David: Not saying don't share your faith with the c- the cashier at your grocery store.

Seth: Yes.

David: But yes-

Seth: But-

David: ... the impetus is a little backwards.

Seth: It's a little-

David: And the story's a little backwards.

Seth: Yeah, like-

David: It's like you're, you will be persecuted if you just live your Christian life. [laughs]

Seth: Yeah.

David: If you are doing good, uh, leaving your old life behind-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... living opposite of the powers that be and the, and the cul- the culture that is, and you're not bowing to the cultural idols of the day-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... you're gonna be persecuted.

Seth: And I think what's... But what you s- the, that, like, what you said is indicative of, like, the world we live in.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Modern Western Oklahoma.

David: Right.

Seth: Um, the being a Christian isn't, doesn't invite persecution necessarily.

David: Yeah. Yeah, not, not-

Seth: Not-

David: ... often

Seth: ... not on this level.

David: Yeah.

Seth: However, I will s- I, I probably would say that it should.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Being a Christian in the Bible Belt will earn you criticism from Bible Belt nominal Christians-

David: Right

Seth: ... in a way that's different than the persecution you might earn in New York City or at your unbelieving friend's wedding.

David: Right.

Seth: Like, there's, like, there are different ways the life and the goodness of Jesus will rub the people around you the wrong way.

David: Right.

Seth: You shouldn't go out looking for reasons to peop- for, to get people angry at you.

David: Right.

Seth: But being a consistent Christian is gonna rub everybody the wrong way at some point because the k- the Kingdom of Heaven is contrary to the kingdom of the Republicans-

David: Yep

Seth: ... and the Democrats and the blue state liberals and the red state ocl... You know?

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Like, it's contrary to whatever kingdom you're in, whatever empire you're in right now. So there is a sense, I think you're right.

David: Yeah.

Seth: We do need to lean into our Christian identity more strongly-

David: Right. Right

Seth: ... wherever we are.

David: Yeah, and I just think, like, we, we're all a little afraid-

Seth: Yes

David: ... of being just a little open about our faith.

Seth: Mm.

David: You know what I mean? Like, um, I was just speaking at an event in South Carolina, and I was at the restaurant, uh, of the hotel alone, and, um, there was a guy sitting next to me, and this was a, a big fundraiser with a lot of-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... like, wealthy Christians there to give generously to awesome organizations, and, um, uh, ours was not one of them.

Seth: [laughs]

David: But anyway, [laughs] uh, uh, and I was working on some spoken, spoken gospel stuff-

Seth: Mm

David: ... in a journal.And this guy, uh, looks over at me and is like, "Man, you're working really hard on a Saturday night. That, you know-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... your job must really stink. You know-

Seth: Yeah, yeah

David: ... your boss must be driving you crazy"

Seth: Yeah.

David: Or he said something like that. And I was like, "Oh, actually, I'm working on-

Seth: I have a boss

David: ... a ministry."

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: You know, and I told him about Spoken Gospel.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And he kinda like belittled me.

Seth: Oh.

David: You know, and was like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... "Oh, that's neat," you know? And like-

Seth: Right

David: ... and just kinda like blew me off and then bragged about how he runs hotel chains. And, you know-

Seth: Cool

David: ... I was just belittled in that moment.

Seth: Yeah, yeah. Not, not-

David: No, I wasn't suffering or anything.

Seth: Right.

David: But it would've been very easy, and I kinda even wanted, just so I didn't have to bring it up-

Seth: Uh-huh

David: ... like, to be like, "Oh, yeah, but you know, I love my job." I could've said that-

Seth: Right

David: ... and avoided the Christian conversation altogether.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: But I just, for the n- I just put the name of Jesus in it and-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... got a little flak.

Seth: Uh-huh.

David: And it's like I just wanna like lean, I don't wanna be obnoxious.

Seth: Mm.

David: I'm not talking about that. It's just like it takes some of the fear away is what I'm saying.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Is it's just like-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... I wanna explore what it feels like to rejoice whenever I'm made fun of for being a Christian. You know?

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, I wanna not be afraid to, like, pray wherever I am or have my Bible wherever I am.

Seth: Right. My assumption is that I'm the only one who's gonna get shamed in that scenario.

David: Mm.

Seth: But Peter would tell you it's the other way around.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like, it's, like, it's, I, I don't imagine a scenario where I'm bold for my faith, and I don't get shamed for it.

David: Right.

Seth: And feel awful about it, you know?

David: Yeah, it's like, but actually, like, if you do that, and then you love the person trying to shame you or throwing flak at you, and you pursue peace with them-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... the powers will be shamed.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And that person will be shamed, maybe even into finding Jesus, getting in the ark.

Seth: Yeah, getting in the ark.

David: Yeah. So-

Seth: I ge- and it makes me also think differently about the burning coals passage. Like-

David: Yeah, yeah

Seth: ... when you love your neighbor, it, it, even when they are-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... evil to you, it'll be like burning-

David: Heping burning coals on their head.

Seth: And so when you lean into those moments of, rather than back away, that-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... anyway, that shame-

David: That's wild

Seth: ... is reversed.

David: Before we close the episode, we just have to talk really briefly, uh, just really, we have to end it on the fact that, like, this is what Jesus has done for us.

Seth: Mm.

David: We were the unrighteous.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: We were the, the, the businessman at the restaurant at the hotel. We were the unbelievers-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... at the wedding. [laughs]

Seth: Yeah.

David: Throwing shade at him. [laughs] And he suffered righteously-

Seth: For us, yeah

David: ... for our unrighteousness.

Seth: For Christ also suffered once for sin.

David: Yeah.

Seth: The righteous for the unrighteous, us.

David: Us, the nephilim.

Seth: That he might bring us-

David: Yes

Seth: ... to God.

David: Yeah. We, we were the unrighteous. Like, we were the outside.

Seth: Such were some of you. That's how Paul says it, yeah.

David: Yeah, such were some of you. And you know, we were the ones who threw our evil at him.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: We threw our, our reviling and our harm at him.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And he did not repay evil for evil.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: He repaid our evil with his good-

Seth: Mm

David: ... and died for us righteously, not only to earn resurrection life for himself, which is how the world works according to God-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... but to earn it for all of us.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And it's like, man, how can you not live into that story? [laughs] Like, it's such a good story to live in, and it's our story. And so that's why we suffer for righteousness' sake, is so we can participate in that good suffering of God for the good of ourselves and our, those around us.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: So.

Seth: Amen.

David: Amen. All right, so we'll wrap up 1 Peter next week, right?

Seth: That's right.

David: Okay. Uh, what's, what, uh-

Seth: 1 Peter 5-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... is Peter's exhortations to the elders of the church.

David: Mm.

Seth: And I think it pulls on two of the stories in Peter's life where Jesus most strongly rebuked him-

David: Ooh

Seth: ... and got onto him.

David: That'll be fun.

Seth: So it, should be fun.

David: All right. Well, we'll see you guys next week. [upbeat music]

Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel creates short films, devotionals, and podcasts like this one. Everything we make is free because of generous supporters like you. To see our resources, visit spokengospel.com or subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. See you next week. [upbeat music]