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Esther 9-10: The Edict

About This Episode

Esther ends with a counter-edict going out to the soon-to-be-oppressed Jews. Instead of the suffering that was soon to be poured out on them, the Jews end up rising up and conquering their oppressors. In this last episode in our series on Esther, David and Seth talk about how to see Jesus in this beautiful book's closing chapters.

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The Day of Death Becomes the Day of Life: How Esther 9–10 Points to the Cross and Final Rest

Show Notes

In this final episode of the Spoken Gospel podcast series on the book of Esther, hosts David Bowden and Seth Stewart walk through Esther 9–10, exploring how the climactic battle and the establishment of the Feast of Purim foreshadow the Gospel of Jesus. What begins as a story about an irrevocable edict of death becomes a breathtaking picture of how God transforms condemnation into life, exile into rest, and seeming chaos into divine purpose.

The Counter-Edict and the Conversion of the Empire

Because the laws of the Persian Empire could not be revoked — a reflection of Xerxes' pride and an unwillingness to admit error — Mordecai and Esther had to craft a counter-edict rather than simply cancel Haman's decree. This second edict authorized the Jews to muster together and defend themselves, gathering allies to fight back against anyone who attacked them on the 13th of Adar. The result was essentially a call to arms, a people's militia preparing for an all-out war.

But something remarkable happened as this edict went out and Mordecai rose to power. Esther 8:17 records that fear of the Jews fell upon the citizens of the empire, and many people "declared themselves Jews." This was a genuine conversion moment within the pagan empire. Citizens who had been aligned with Persian culture and its gods now chose to align themselves with the people of God. They saw the edict of salvation proclaimed from the throne and wanted to be part of God's kingdom rather than remain under the empire's rule. This pattern echoes throughout Scripture — the king of Moab fearing Israel in Numbers, Rahab repenting in Jericho after hearing what God did in Egypt, and the nations quaking in the Psalms and prophets when God musters his people. It also fulfills the promise to Abraham that all nations of the world would be blessed through his descendants. Even citizens of a brutal pagan empire were coming into the kingdom.

Two Edicts: Condemnation and Life

The interplay between the two edicts in Esther provides one of the episode's richest Gospel connections. There was an old edict of death and a new edict of life, and the people of the empire had to choose which one they would align themselves with. This mirrors the choice at the end of Deuteronomy — "I set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore, choose life." It also resonates with Jesus's inaugural declaration in Luke 4, where he announced that the Spirit of God had anointed him to proclaim good news to the poor, liberty to the captives, and the year of the Lord's favor. The edict coming out of Susa was, in a sense, a picture of that same announcement: the messianic hope has arrived, oppression will end, and deliverance is at hand.

The parallel deepens when applied to God's own kingdom. God's law, unlike Xerxes' drunken and capricious decrees, is right and just. The edict of condemnation over humanity is not foolish or arbitrary — it is a correct, sober judgment. Yet Jesus comes and dies the death of Haman in order to be raised to the position of Mordecai. He takes condemnation upon himself at the cross and then writes a new edict, sealed with the king's ring, and sends it to us. As Romans 3 puts it, he is both the just and the justifier. Only in the cross of Jesus do the edict of condemnation and the edict of life cease to be contradictory, because Jesus fulfills the demands of the first by bearing our condemnation and extends to us the second by offering us life. What Xerxes should have done — die to his own pride and acknowledge the foolishness of his decree — God actually does, not because his laws are foolish, but because he is merciful and loving.

Holy War and the Defeat of the Serpent

When the battle finally takes place on the 13th of Adar, the Jews are victorious and the text records death tolls reminiscent of the conquest narratives in Joshua and Deuteronomy. One critical detail stands out: the Jews did not take plunder. This connects directly to the Torah's instructions for holy war against the seed of the serpent — the Canaanites and other nations designated for destruction. Normal warfare allowed plunder, but wars against the enemies of God required that everything be devoted to destruction. By refusing plunder, the Jews in Persia signal that this is not merely a political conflict. It is a cosmic, spiritual battle rooted in the ancient enmity between the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent introduced in Genesis 3:15.

This demonic conspiracy stretches across the entire biblical narrative. Cain killed Abel. Pharaoh tried to destroy the children of Israel. Haman plotted to annihilate all the Jews. Herod slaughtered the infants of Bethlehem. In Revelation 12, John describes a dragon crouched at the feet of a woman clothed in stars, ready to devour her child the moment it is born. That image captures what has been happening throughout the whole Bible — the serpent relentlessly trying to destroy the seed of God's people. What happened in Persia was not merely a Persian problem. It was the latest chapter in a spiritual war that spans from Genesis to Revelation.

The Day of Death Becomes the Day of Life

Esther 9:22 records that the month which had been turned from sorrow into gladness and from mourning into celebration became the occasion for feasting and rest. What was meant for evil was turned to good, echoing the language of Genesis. The day of death became the day of life. This is exactly the picture we see at the cross. On Good Friday, the seed of the serpent believed it had finally succeeded. Satan, working through the Sadducees, the Pharisees, and the Roman governors — whispering "kill him" just as Haman whispered to Xerxes — thought he had destroyed the actual seed of God. But ironically, the day of Jesus's death became the day of greatest life. In his death, Satan used his only weapon and it failed. As Colossians says, Jesus disarmed the spiritual authorities by taking the legal code against us and nailing it to the cross. The accuser's power of condemnation was stripped away in the very act he put into motion. Jesus was the last casualty of the holy war.

This is also why the Feast of Purim — the Day of Lots, the Day of the Dice — is so significant. It memorializes the truth that what looked like chance was divinely orchestrated. Haman cast lots to choose the day of destruction, but God turned that day into the day of rest and celebration. What Haman thought was a roll of the dice was actually God bringing about his seventh day of creation — new life, new rest, new creation in his people.

Rest in the Midst of Exile

The theme of rest runs deep throughout Scripture. In Deuteronomy 12, God promised that once the enemies of his people were destroyed, his temple could be built. In Joshua, after the conquest, God's presence came. In 2 Samuel 7, David received the promise of rest from enemies, and it was Solomon — whose hands were unstained by holy war and who lived in a season of rest — who built the temple that God's presence filled. The pattern is consistent: when the seed of the serpent is defeated, God's presence comes and dwells with his people.

At the cross, Jesus defeated the accuser so that condemnation no longer stands against those who trust in him. And so believers become little temples of God. His presence dwells in us in the midst of exile. We are still in the empire — Esther 10:1 makes that painfully clear, as Xerxes immediately reasserts his authority by imposing taxes on the people of God. The battle is not yet over. The eternal satanic conspiracy is still at work. But we carry the presence of God as outposts of his kingdom, and as we live and proclaim the edict of life, those in exile come to the light and are converted. The only holy war Christians are engaged in now is against the spiritual enemy, tearing down his strongholds by preaching the Gospel: "There is no condemnation for you anymore, because Jesus died for what you feel condemned for."

The Promise of Final Rest

The episode closes with a deeply personal reflection on what final rest will actually feel like. Drawing on Augustine's categories, there is a progression throughout history: Adam was able to sin and able not to sin. After the fall, humanity became unable not to sin — everything we do, even when it looks right, is entangled with selfish motivation and the empire's influence. When we trust in Jesus, we return to Adam's original state, able to sin and able not to sin. But the final promise — the rest that the book of Esther invites us to hope for — is the day when we will not be able to sin at all. Not because the desire is suppressed by willpower, but because it is completely obliterated and replaced with better desires. Every desire in our hearts will be one we can say yes to, and God will smile upon each of those decisions.

Drawing on a scene from C.S. Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia, where Prince Caspian enters Aslan's country and asks if he is allowed to want something, and Aslan replies, "My child, you cannot want wrong things anymore" — this is the rest the book of Esther points toward. The empire will be gone. The accuser will no longer be able to condemn. We will no longer be so intermingled with the forces of darkness that we have to second-guess every decision. There will be rest from every enemy — not just external enemies, but the internal war between guilt and grace, between the edict of death and the edict of life. And one day, when we look back on all of history, it will look like the beautiful, poetic structure of the book of Esther — every point and counterpoint in place — and we will say, "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty." Nothing was ever a roll of the dice. God was in control of it all.

Transcript

Intro: [upbeat music] Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a nonprofit dedicated to the idea that every part of the Bible, Old Testament and New, is about Jesus, and this podcast is our experiment to publicly test that belief. Every episode, hosts David Bowden and Seth Stewart work through a Biblical text to see how it helps us see and savor Jesus. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]

David: Well, welcome, everyone, to the Spoken Gospel podcast.

Seth: Welcome.

David: Thank you for joining us. We are wrapping up our talk on the Book of Esther.

Seth: Our talks plural.

David: Our talks through the-

Seth: Through the Book of Esther [laughs]

David: ... Book of Esther. I, I, I used the wrong ca- or, like, the wrong, like... What, what is it?

Seth: Plural? Singular?

David: Singular and plural. What's that genre called?

Seth: Oh, uh, um-

David: Pers- number.

Seth: Number? [laughs]

David: Is it just the wrong number? Is that it? I know what it is in, like... It's what we call it in Greek, but I don't know if that's-

Seth: The wrong number of things [laughs]

David: The wrong number of things.

Seth: Is what I-

David: And the wrong preposition.

Seth: Yes.

David: Failed.

Seth: David, David's rough this morning, guys.

David: I'm rough. It's first thing in the morning.

Seth: Um, before we go on-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... what are some resources for people, like, "Hey, I really wanna study the Book of Esther more deeply on my own. I wanna hear-

David: Oh, man

Seth: ... where you guys are thinking through some of these categories." Where would you point people to help them understand the Book of Esther?

David: Oh, that's a great, that's a great question.

Seth: Mm.

David: Uh, I think... We can put it in the description.

Seth: Yep.

David: But there is an article by Ian Duguid-

Seth: Okay

David: ... um, on-

Seth: Spelled Duguid

David: ... Duguid-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... is what it looks like. And, uh, he, he's a great, uh, a great scholar, um-

Seth: He's Scottish too, right?

David: I think so. He's li- he, I think he's lived in a bunch of places-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... uh, for, like, long periods of time, so his accent is, like, very blurred.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But now he's in the States. Um, and, uh... Anyway, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a article. You can read in about 15 minutes, and it's about the es- eschatologic, like, the eschatology-

Seth: It's-

David: ... of the Book of Esther.

Seth: Right, the Eschatology of the Book of Esther. That's the name of the article.

David: Oh, is it? [laughs] Yeah, great.

Seth: That's the name of the article.

David: And, uh, it, which is, like, the, which is like-

Seth: Which sounds really s-

David: ... the, the, the law, like, the, the future coming of the Savior-

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah

David: ... that we see in the Book of Esther.

Seth: I think, uh... Oh, yeah, it, does anyone in Esther live happily ever after?

David: Yeah.

Seth: Is that the-

David: That's how he ends it

Seth: ... lesson? Yeah.

David: Yeah. And so...

Seth: Um. Oh, actually, the name of the, the name of it is But Did They Live Happily Ever After?

David: Ah, there we go.

Seth: The Eschatology of the Book of Esther.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So it's actually, it sounds a little scholarly, but it's not.

David: It's not.

Seth: It's not.

David: It's super easy to read. Um-

Seth: Um, I would recommend Redemptive Re- Reversals by G.K. Beale.

David: Yep. You can, you can hold it up.

Seth: Oh, look, into the camera.

David: For those, for, for those watching on YouTube-

Seth: Um

David: ... you can see the book.

Seth: It's a great little book, and the first couple chapters are about the irony of sin-

David: Mm

Seth: ... and the irony of salvation.

David: Yep.

Seth: So super, like what we talked, a major theme in the Book of Esther.

David: Yes.

Seth: Um, I was also really helped by Karen Jobes' NIV Application Commentary.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: So if you wanna do a deep di- a deeper dive, like, and go verse by verse through it, I really liked her.

David: Yes.

Seth: Uh-

David: I was gonna recommend the Tyndale Commentary series-

Seth: Okay

David: ... which is also written by a wonderful, uh, uh, woman theologian. I'm trying to pull up her name right now, but, um-

Seth: Just like a man to forget a woman's name. [laughs]

David: Oh, my gosh. [laughs] It's the worst. Uh, here it is. It's, uh, Deborah Reid.

Seth: Okay.

David: Deborah Reid.

Seth: I've never heard, I've never listened.

David: Uh, Tyndale's. Uh, and her, I read, I read through her introduction, and it was phenomenal. Super, super phenomenal. Uh, so those are some really good rec- recommendations I would make.

Seth: Oh, and the, uh, Help Me Teach The Bible podcast.

David: Help Me Teach The Bible podcast, hosted by Nancy Guthrie.

Seth: Is also really excellent.

David: She's phenomenal.

Seth: And I think she's in conversation with Ian Duguid on that-

David: On Ezekiel

Seth: ... oh, it's on Ezekiel.

David: On Ezekiel, yep.

Seth: Oh, it's, I forget who it is on, uh, Esther.

David: Yeah, but-

Seth: But it's excellent

David: ... they do a wonderful job, so that's a great-

Seth: BibleProject is also super helpful.

David: Yeah, BibleProject talks about the chiasm really well.

Seth: Mm.

David: So you can go watch their video to kind of-

Seth: Mm

David: ... see the chiastic formation that we kind of referenced in the first episode, if... Go watch the BibleProject video to see that really clearly. So those are some good resources to help you through-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... I think. Totally.

Seth: So the story so far, then.

David: Yes.

Seth: The Book of Esther. So...

David: Go.

Seth: Huge party.

David: Yeah.

Seth: King Xerxes. Vashti refuses to be objectified by He- uh, Xerxes and all of his drunk officials.

David: Right.

Seth: She gets banished. Sexualized beauty pageant. Haman i- is elevated to power. Mordecai refuses to bow to him.

David: Because of a great eternal battle.

Seth: Because of a great eternal battle happening behind the scenes. He, a desc- Mordecai, descendant of King Saul.

David: Saul.

Seth: Haman, a descendant of a- Agag. Go back to 1 Samuel 3-

David: Yep

Seth: ... to read that story. Um, then-

David: Yes

Seth: ... Mordecai, uh, there's an edict.

David: Is angry.

Seth: Uh, Mordecai-

David: Since his edict.

Seth: Yeah. Haman is angry, makes this edict to kill all Jews everywhere. Mordecai says, "Esther, you're our only hope." She says, "Sure. If I die, I die." [laughs] We then, uh, have these multiple feasts that are set up to convince Xerxes to save the people. That happens.

David: Yep.

Seth: And Mordecai is elevated to a position of power and is able to make an edict that counteracts the first.

David: Right.

Seth: So this is kind of where we are in the story.

David: Yes. And Haman is brought-

Seth: Oh

David: ... down from power and humiliated.

Seth: Yeah, he's-

David: Ironic reversals, we talked about that in episode two.

Seth: Yep.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Uh, so where we are right now is that Esther and Mordecai have now eliminated the threat-

David: Yes

Seth: ... of Haman-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... but the edict-

David: Is still circulating the empire.

Seth: Right.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So on the 13th of Adar-

David: Yep

Seth: ... all the Jews will be killed by all their enemies.

David: Right.

Seth: All the people of God will be killed by the em- the, by the empire.

David: Yeah, and it, there's not, like, a, uh, mass communication system that's, like-

Seth: Oh

David: ... instantaneous. It's not like they could just, like, send a, a group chat and-

Seth: Right

David: ... you know? [laughs] Like, or, like-

Seth: [laughs]

David: ... do a public service announcement on TV or something.

Seth: Right.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And, and besides that, the law of the land cannot be revoked, so Xerxes can't just go back on his law.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Because, one, he would lose face in going back on his law.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Uh, and it c- goes back to, like, that kind of ironic pridefulness. He assumes the best way to run his nation is by having unchangeable laws, but it's kind of stupid. What happens when you make a stupid law-

David: Mm

Seth: ... that has to be revoked?

David: Then you can't.

Seth: You can't.

David: Yeah, you can't.

Seth: Because that would re- require humility. That would require, like [laughs]

David: [laughs]

Seth: ... would require some self-reflection-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... which-... apparently doesn't exist in the empire. Um, so Xerxes tells Mordecai and Esther this, so they come up with a counter edict-

David: Oh

Seth: ... a counter decree, and it's that all Jews are allowed to fight back-

David: Oh

Seth: ... and that they are allowed to bring friends and family that are not Jews to their aid to destroy anybody that comes against them.

David: Well, okay. So I actually didn't pick up on that.

Seth: Okay.

David: But you're, you're right.

Seth: Right, right, right.

David: You're, you're abs- I just, I read it like a, "Never mind. What we said before is not true anymore."

Seth: No, that still stands.

David: But you're right, because, 'cause I, what I wondered about that was like they were given permission explicitly, it says, to, to harm those who sought to harm you.

Seth: Yes.

David: But I was like, how would they know if, if the edict, you know, the first edict didn't actually go out?

Seth: Yeah.

David: But they, it, this, this is war now.

Seth: This is all-out war. So, like-

David: Wow

Seth: ... it's like this, like... So the edict goes out saying, "Jews, defend yourselves."

David: Uh-huh.

Seth: "Gather, gather an- gather an army for yourselves."

David: Yeah, people's militia.

Seth: Yeah, people's militia, in order to defend yourselves.

David: Huh.

Seth: That's the second edict.

David: Okay.

Seth: So it allows Xerxes to save face, but also prepares the Jews to do battle. And what's crazy is, as Mordecai rises to power-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... as this edict goes out, fear of the Jews overtakes the capital city.

David: Mm.

Seth: So, uh, let me read it to you in chapter eight. Um, where is it, Seth? What are you looking for?

David: [laughs] Oh, yeah. Sorry, I found it. I found it.

Seth: Okay, verse, uh, chapter eight-

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... verse, uh, 16. So, "Then Mordecai went out from the presence of the king in royal robes of blue and white, with a great golden crown and a robe of fine linen and purple. And the city of S- Susa shouted and rejoiced. And in every province and in every city, whenev- wherever the king's command and his edict reached, there was gladness and joy among the Jews, a feast and a holiday."

David: Mm.

Seth: "Um, and many from the peoples of the country declared themselves Jews-

David: Mm

Seth: ... for fear of the Jews had fallen on them."

David: Mm.

Seth: So there's this great s- Now, Jews, prepare yourself for battle. And-

David: As they're doing this

Seth: ... as they're doing this, people are afraid. The empire, citizens of the empire are afraid of the people of God.

David: Mm.

Seth: And out of respect, out of-

David: Fear [laughs]

Seth: ... fear, they become Jews themselves. They align themselves with the people of God-

David: Whoa

Seth: ... in order to be part of the salvation that's coming for the people of God. They see the salvation-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... pronounced from the throne, and they want to be a part of the-

David: Of the-

Seth: ... people of God's kingdom rather than the kingdom of the empire. I think a really way, easy way to say that is, like, this is a conversion moment-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... for multiple people within the empire.

David: Whoa, okay.

Seth: Okay.

David: I have so much I wanna parse out of that. [laughs]

Seth: Okay. Okay, go.

David: Okay. So first off, there is this category I think we have for, um, the, the mustering of the Jews.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: You know?

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: And the fear of the nations.

Seth: Okay.

David: So I think of, uh, the King of Moab that hires Balaam in the Book of Numbers-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... who feared the people who were camping on his shores.

Seth: Right, right, right, right, right.

David: Um, I think about the people of Jericho and, like, the story of Rahab.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: You know, like, she has heard about this great God and His, what He did in Egypt, and so she-

Seth: Repents, yeah

David: ... ends up repenting and helping the Jews.

Seth: Yep.

David: Like, this is, like, a cycle that's happened, is that when God's people are mustered by the hand of God, the nations quake in fear, which is like, that should sound like the prophets.

Seth: Yeah.

David: That should sound like Psalms.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: This is something God does-

Seth: Yes

David: ... with His people.

Seth: Yes.

David: So that's just something I just noticed-

Seth: Yep

David: ... that I hadn't thought of before. Uh, so this is happening again-

Seth: Yep

David: ... which, like, I think should clue us in, which we'll talk about.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But that should be one of our first big clues of, like, this sounds like the conquest of Canaan again.

Seth: Yeah.

David: This sounds like the holy wars of Israel again.

Seth: Yes, and it is.

David: It is, and we'll get there.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But so that, that's, that's one thing. Uh, the other thing is, like, this sounds a lot like the blessing of Abraham being fulfilled, the promise to Abraham-

Seth: All the nations of the world will be blessed

David: ... that all nations of the world will be blessed.

Seth: Even citizens of the empire-

David: Yes

Seth: ... the pagan, brutal, awful empire.

David: Yeah. Are-

Seth: Which is, like, coming into the kingdom

David: ... and it's also like, it, it's a really interesting thing. I just don't, I don't think of the Old Testament, especially, like, when I, when I read it, I don't see a lot of conversion-

Seth: Yeah, that's fair

David: ... to, to, to the Jewish nation-

Seth: That's fair

David: ... which is not something I see often.

Seth: 'Cause you'll see every, there's all sorts of laws for sojourners-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and exiles. There'll be hints that the Gentiles will come in through the prophets, or an expectation that there's foreigners living in the land-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... by, in the Psalms and the historical narratives.

David: Yeah. But we don't really see the conversion a lot.

Seth: No, we don't.

David: And so here it is.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So that's very interesting.

Seth: Yeah.

David: It's just like a, whoa, I guess that happened every now and then.

Seth: There's an edict of salvation-

David: Right

Seth: ... and good news for the Jews.

David: Right.

Seth: And then you have a whole bunch of citizen of the empire-

David: Yep

Seth: ... joining the cause-

David: So there's that

Seth: ... of salvation. Yeah.

David: And then there's also just, like, the why did they, like, why did they proselytize? Why did they-

Seth: Why did they convert?

David: ... convert? And it's like, like, I like how you said it.

Seth: Yeah.

David: They, there was this new edict.

Seth: Yeah.

David: There was an old edict and a new edict.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And there was, there, there was one that was about death and one that was about life.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And they wanted to join the edict of life.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And I'm like, that sounds like an altar call. [laughs]

Seth: It does.

David: It sounds like a Billy Graham crusade. [laughs]

Seth: It sounds like the ending of the Book of Deuteronomy, which we were just in.

David: Oh.

Seth: Like, I set before you life and death-

David: Totally

Seth: ... blessing and cursing.

David: Yep.

Seth: Therefore, choose life.

David: And there was an edict on the, the mountain of life-

Seth: And then-

David: ... and an edict on the mountain of death.

Seth: And-

David: Which one will you choose?

Seth: And we said over and over again in the Book of Deuteronomy, "Fear the Lord."

David: Right.

Seth: It's like, it's like, like, w- uh, the be- the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom-

David: Beginning of wisdom

Seth: ... and knowledge.

David: Yep.

Seth: Like, fearing God-

David: And, like, all throughout Deuteronomy-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... how will they obey the edicts put before them? Fear me.

Seth: Right.

David: Right?

Seth: Yes.

David: And it's like the fear, fear of the Jews gripped the people, and so they converted.

Seth: Yes.

David: And it's just very interesting.

Seth: Yeah. Uh, yeah.

David: Wow.

Seth: Fascinating.

David: What a strange little statement.

Seth: So l-Do we see Jesus in this particular instance, or do we need to move further in the story before we-

David: Well, I, I, no, I think, I think we absolutely do. I think that, like, there are... I, I, I can think of, like, parallels in some of the teachings of Jesus, especially ones that w- in which he talked about the end times.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Where he talks about, like, how he will come and, like, he will judge and he will rule and reign, and he's like, "So expect that day," you know?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "And, like, go out into the fields because the harvest is plentible- plentiful, but the workers are few. And, like, so go-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and tell people that that day is coming."

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David: "Expect it and repent." You know? And, like, I-

Seth: Right

David: ... I think, like, the fear of the Lord, which is, like, a really good thing.

Seth: Right.

David: Like, like this was, this saved people from a holocaust.

Seth: Yeah.

David: This is a very good thing that happened here.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: Um, and for us, it means the recreation of all things. It means the righting of all wrongs. It means the en- the enacting of, of great justice.

Seth: Yeah.

David: You know, it means the restoration of our bodies, the defeat of death, the defeat of pain.

Seth: Yeah.

David: When Jesus comes is, like, what I'm saying.

Seth: Right, right, right, right.

David: And, like, but that day, if you are still under the edict of death-

Seth: Right

David: ... that day is a fearful, dreadful day for you.

Seth: What is... How does Luke, uh, how does Jesus introduce himself in the Book of Luke when he first comes, uh-

David: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me."

Seth: Yeah

David: ... in 4?

Seth: "To proclaim, uh, liberty to the captives."

David: Yep.

Seth: Let me read it right now. Um-

David: Yeah, he's-

Seth: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor, liberty to the captives, the recovering of sight to the blind, and set at liberty all those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

David: Right.

Seth: So what is happening here in... What's the edict-

David: Yep

Seth: ... coming out from Susa?

David: The year of the Lord's favor.

Seth: The year of the Lord's favor-

David: We're cut, yeah

Seth: ... is here upon the Jews.

David: Yep.

Seth: The oppression-

David: Oppression

Seth: ... will no longer exist here. Like-

David: Right

Seth: ... some of the liberty to the captives is coming.

David: Yep.

Seth: Don't be in fear of the enemies. Uh, the messianic hope has arrived.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And even, like, Mordecai's clued us into that, what Esther is accomplishing is-

David: Yep

Seth: ... messianic hope.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Who knows? Maybe deliverance will rise from somewhere else. Like-

David: Yep

Seth: ... this is a picture of the messianic future that will come.

David: That's right.

Seth: The final victory over the enemies of God-

David: Yes

Seth: ... accomplished fr- by Jesus-

David: Yep

Seth: ... through his ministry and the cross.

David: And the news of this coming day-

Seth: Yes

David: ... 'cause this edict was still in the future.

Seth: Yes.

David: It was soon in the future, but it was-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... in the future. This news of this coming day of the Lord, of the year of the Lord's favor-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... is bringing repentance to people-

Seth: Yes

David: ... and conversion. And so it's like the edict of-

Seth: It's just, the edict of life-

David: Yep

Seth: ... brings people into the kingdom.

David: Yes.

Seth: Out of the empire and into the kingdom.

David: Out of the empire, into the kingdom. Yeah.

Seth: Yes.

David: That's really cool. It's also just interesting to t- to think about the interplay between the two edicts.

Seth: Okay.

David: Like, so I, I just think about, like, the, the cant- you know, like, uh, how Colossians talks about the, the record of debt that stood against us, and Romans-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... talks about this too, and it's like, there was this decree-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... over our life that... And it was, like, from the king.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: And, like, God's word is irrevocable-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... you know, in a sense.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: Like, not because he's proud and unflinching-

Seth: Because he's God

David: ... because he's right. Every, every time he writes a law, it's correct.

Seth: Right.

David: You know?

Seth: The fact that King Xerxes is described like God, and his laws are unchanging, and he rules over the whole world is to prove how terrible that works out when a human does it.

David: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Seth: Like [laughs]

David: Right, right.

Seth: When God has unchanging laws, they're for our good.

David: Right.

Seth: They're also for our condemnation.

David: Right.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So God writes this letter of condemnation and, like-

Seth: Yeah, the Edict of Condemnation

David: ... the Edict of Condemnation. We will die-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and it will be right. It won't be some capricious, drunken, stupid decision-

Seth: Right

David: ... that was passed down because he was whispered in his ear while he was drunk, that he's like, "Oh, sure. We'll kill-

Seth: Right

David: ... we'll kill them. Let's flood the earth." Like, that's not what's happening here. This is a correct, sober judgment of God.

Seth: Right.

David: Edict of Condemnation. But then Jesus comes, and he dies the death of Haman to be raised to the position of Mordecai to write a new edict, seal it with the king's ring-

Seth: Right

David: ... and send it to us.

Seth: There's two edicts in God's kingdom-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... just like there was two edicts in the empire.

David: Right.

Seth: In the empire, they were violent.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: They were capricious. They were imperfect, incomplete. And the two edicts in, uh, God's kingdom actually are re- represent the goodness of our God. They're not contradictory.

David: No.

Seth: They're not capricious. God is a good God of life.

David: Right.

Seth: And any activity, behavior that belongs to death will not be tolerated.

David: Right.

Seth: But there's also a de- an edict of life for-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... people who commit deeds of death-

David: Yes

Seth: ... who commit disobedience.

David: Right.

Seth: Because God is merciful and he's loving.

David: Right.

Seth: And so it feels like those two edicts, like it feels in the Book of Esther, that they shouldn't go together, that there might be a contradiction-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... in them. But we're learning in the Kingdom of God, those two edicts are find perfect, like, like, overlap-

David: Yep

Seth: ... in the cross of Jesus Christ.

David: That's right.

Seth: That's exactly right.

David: It's only in the cross of Jesus Christ that those aren't contradictory edicts.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Because he is both the just and the justifier, as Romans 3 says.

Seth: Yeah.

David: He both fulfills and, and, and allows the Edict of Condemnation to come along and, and be himself, thus justifying the edict of the king-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... by taking our condemnation for us on the cross.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But then he extends to us the Edict of Life.

Seth: Because that's what, that, that's what Xerxes should have done.

David: Yes.

Seth: He should have recognized-

David: He should have died to his own pride.

Seth: That's exactly right.

David: Yep. Mm-hmm.

Seth: He should have died to the edict that was foolish-

David: Wow

Seth: ... and foolhardy.

David: Yep.

Seth: God recognizes that hi- his edicts aren't capricious or-

David: No

Seth: ... foolhardy or based on pride.

David: And yet he dies to them anyway.

Seth: But he dies to them anyway-

David: Ah

Seth: ... so that we might have only the Edict of Life apply to us.

David: That's-

Seth: We would only have victory, and as the next part of the text shows, rest from our enemies. So that's n- that's the next thing that happens.

David: Yeah.

Seth: The, the battle happens on the-

David: The battle happens

Seth: ... 13th of Adar.

David: And-

Seth: And the Jews-

David: They rise up

Seth: ... win.

David: Yeah, they win. We even see numbers of, like, death toll numbers.

Seth: Yep.

David: And, uh, and-

Seth: Just like you read back in Joshua-

David: Just like

Seth: ... just like you'd read in some of the chapters in Deuteronomy.Um, and what's fascinating, uh-

David: About the, about the conquest here

Seth: ... is that, well, in, in verse 20 and 20- 21 and 22, it talks about relief and rest from the enemies. But before we get there, it says that they did not take plunder.

David: Right.

Seth: Which, why is that significant?

David: Well, it's, yeah, it's significant because that was the rule way back in the Torah that God gave the conquerors of the land of Canaan on how to treat the people who were to be devastated or, uh, uh, designated for destruction.

Seth: So the seed of the serpent-

David: Yep

Seth: ... that eternal conspiracy-

David: The, yep, the Canaanites, the, the Perizzites, the, the Jebusites.

Seth: Right, right.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Or even just, like, Cain-

David: Yep

Seth: ... like, killing Abel.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like, that divine Satanic conspiracy.

David: Yep.

Seth: You were supposed to-

David: Utterly destroy

Seth: ... utterly destroy those people and-

David: And do not touch the plunder.

Seth: That was the, that was the-

David: That was the rule

Seth: ... big-

David: Yep

Seth: ... unique rule-

David: Yep

Seth: ... about that.

David: He was like, now, to, to compare it-

Seth: Right

David: ... if you were, if you were just expanding your territory and having normal kind of diplomatic expansion wars with-

Seth: Right

David: ... non-seed-of-the-serpent nations-

Seth: Right

David: ... sure, take the plunder and, but don't devot- and don't, and also don't devote them to complete destruction.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Just engage in normal warfare there.

Seth: Right.

David: This is different.

Seth: This is different. So this, so we keep saying that this empire isn't just Persia.

David: Yes.

Seth: It's actually a demonic consigliere-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... whispering into the ear of Xerxes-

David: Yes

Seth: ... in the em- to further the demonic empire's goals on an, in an earthly empire.

David: That's right. Yeah, we, we... and this is, this is... we, we see this first in the fact that Haman is a descendant of the king of Agag, the Amalekites, who are the, one of the enemies-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... of God, and this goes all the way back to the seed of the serpent.

Seth: Right.

David: This is a demonic, long-standing, like-

Seth: In Genesis-

David: ... enemy of God.

Seth: Yeah, in Genesis 3:15, we're introduced to two, like, two, like, an empire and a kingdom.

David: That's right.

Seth: There's an empire, the snake.

David: Yep.

Seth: And there's the kingdom of the seed of, of Eve.

David: Of Eve, yep.

Seth: And we see throughout history-

David: Two family trees developing

Seth: ... two family trees that are always in conflict.

David: Yep.

Seth: Cain kills Abel.

David: Yep. Jacob and Esau fight.

Seth: Jacob and Esau are fighting. Um, what's, what are the, the other clear examples?

David: Uh, like, Ham and Seth.

Seth: Pharaoh-

David: Yep

Seth: ... the seed of the serpent-

David: Yes

Seth: ... tries to kill all the children-

David: Big time

Seth: ... of Israel.

David: Yep.

Seth: Haman tries to annihilate all the Jews.

David: Yep.

Seth: Herod wipes out all the infants-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... in Jesus's, uh, birth town-

David: That's right

Seth: ... of Bethlehem.

David: Yep.

Seth: There's this demonic conspiracy-

David: Yep

Seth: ... to kill the children of the people of God.

David: This goes all the way through to Revelation.

Seth: Right, and where it, in, in Revelation 13, there's this crazy vision of this woman, like, clothed in stars, who's a, a representative of the people of God.

David: Yep.

Seth: And as she's giving birth to a child-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... who is supposed to s- uh, who... a child.

David: Yeah.

Seth: There's a dragon, like, crouched-

David: Crouching at her knees, yeah

Seth: ... at her hips, right as she gives birth-

David: Yep

Seth: ... and seeking to, like, eat the child of the people of God.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And what John is saying, I think, in, in, in the Book of Revelation, he's saying this image is actually an image of the entire book and the entire Bible.

David: Th- th- yeah, this is what's been happening the whole time.

Seth: This is what's been happening the entire time.

David: God's people have been being m- like, being fruitful and multiplying as God said they would, and the evil one is like a lion waiting to crouch.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And, uh, uh, he's crouching and he's ready to, ready to attack. He's like a dragon.

Seth: He's like a serpent wanting to-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... destroy the seed of Eve.

David: Yep.

Seth: That's why Cain killed Abel. That's why Haman-

David: Yep

Seth: ... killed the Jews. That's why Pharaoh tried to kill the Egyptians, why Herod tried to kill Jesus.

David: Yep.

Seth: It's the same story-

David: That's right

Seth: ... over and over again. So-

David: Yep

Seth: ... all that, all that canonical c- context-

David: Yes

Seth: ... to say that what, when they don't take the plunder-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... it's cluing you into the fact that what's happening in Persia isn't a Persian problem.

David: No.

Seth: It's a cosmic spiritual problem.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And what's happening here is God's people's victory over the empire of the snake.

David: Yes, and, and what happens is another reversal. So what's been happening-

Seth: Yep

David: ... is, as long as the people of God have been conquered by Persia, they've been assimilating-

Seth: Yep

David: ... into Persian culture.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: They're being named after their gods.

Seth: Yep.

David: They're-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... they're getting drafted into their sexual competitions. They're, they're cut off from the temple and are unable to follow the laws of the Torah. But as this holy war starts happening, and the enemies of God are punished and judged, the opposite starts happening. Those who were worshiping Marduk and Ishtar-

Seth: Yeah, yeah, [laughs]

David: ... are now worshiping Yahweh.

Seth: Yeah.

David: They're converting.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: It's a great reversal again. Like, that's what's happening here.

Seth: Yes.

David: So, like, w- like, th- this is what happens. Like, God is seeking and will destroy those who oppose him, but in order to bring about the salvation of-

Seth: Yes

David: ... those who come to him.

Seth: It's, uh... [inhales] "As the month that had been turned for them," so the month and the day had been turned for them, "from sorrow into gladness-

David: Mm

Seth: ... from mourning into a holiday, that they should make, uh, them days of feasting and gladness."

David: Yep.

Seth: So it's like, what was meant for evil-

David: Yep

Seth: ... has been turned to good.

David: Yep.

Seth: Which is what we read in Genesis.

David: That's right.

Seth: Um-

David: The day of death has become the day of life.

Seth: Yes.

David: And, like, this is the picture we see on another day. [laughs]

Seth: Yeah.

David: A very important day.

Seth: Another day. [laughs]

David: Easter, you know? [laughs]

Seth: East- yeah, yeah.

David: But, like, the day of Jesus's death-

Seth: Good Friday

David: ... Easter, you know

Seth: ... is probably a, a bastardization of Ishtar.

David: Oh, that's interesting.

Seth: Like, it was a celebration [laughs] of the, one of the, one of the goddesses.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Ishtar. Like, that's where, why we say Easter-

David: Easter

Seth: ... rather than resurrection.

David: That's very interesting.

Seth: Fascinating, right? [laughs]

David: Yeah. Anyway, and, like, but on the day of Jesus's death-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... that was the day that the seed of the serpent finally said, "I did it."

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, that was Haman rising to power, going home, and gloating to his family. Satan, you know, the evil one, the, that ancient serpent, is going, like, "I did it."

Seth: Right.

David: "The day of death has come."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "The edict that I tried to sign back in Haman's day actually got enacted."

Seth: "The actual seed of God-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... has been destroyed."

David: "I did it."

Seth: "I crushed the head-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... of the Son of God."

David: Yeah.

Seth: That's what Satan's thinking.

David: Yes.

Seth: Yeah. And then, but ironically-

David: This reversal happens where the day of death is actually the day of greatest life.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Because Jesus beats not only the grave in his resurrection, but in his death-

Seth: Yes

David: ... Satan ends up taking away his only weapon-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... which is condemnation and accusation. He is the great accuser.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And in-

Seth: Well, in death too, like think of death-

David: Yeah, death is his greatest weapon

Seth: ... think, think of death and Satan for a moment as synonymous. Like, if Satan's only weapon is death-

David: Mm

Seth: ... and he uses it to conquer, like he uses himself to conquer the Son of God, the son of the people, the seed of-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... the kingdom, and it doesn't work, he's defeated. He has nothing left within himself to defeat-

David: Mm

Seth: ... the God of life with.

David: Right.

Seth: If Satan and the curse of sin is death, if death is his-

David: Right

Seth: ... primary weapon-

David: Yeah, his ace of spades

Seth: ... he's utterly destroyed.

David: Yeah.

Seth: He's utterly destroyed, and on top of that, condemnation is-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... also, like, part of it.

David: Right. Big time.

Seth: Yes. [laughs]

David: Yeah. I mean, we're told in Colossians that he disarmed the spiritual authorities-

Seth: Mm

David: ... by taking the legal code against us and nailing it to the cross.

Seth: Yes.

David: The disem- the, the disarming of Satan was a legal issue, too.

Seth: Yes.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And then maybe another way to say that is, like, um, he's called, like, the ruler of this world.

David: Yes.

Seth: The ruler of this world.

David: Yeah, yeah, he's the consigliere whispering in every ear of every king.

Seth: And so one way that he exercises power is through the inevitable death that happens to all of us.

David: Yes.

Seth: Like, that is proof of his reign and rule.

David: Yeah. And that, in that, I just wanna say that that death that he, that y- you say, like, he kind of has-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... this is a deputized thing-

Seth: Yes

David: ... that he, he doesn't own death.

Seth: No.

David: He's not the god of death. We're not-

Seth: No. Right, right, right

David: ... Greek, we're not Greek, you know, mythol- mythologists here.

Seth: No, but he-

David: Like, you have to look at it as like-

Seth: ... an exit in the world. He's been delegated authority to-

David: I don't know. I have trouble with that. I can't find a verse that says that.

Seth: That's true. That's true.

David: I, I, I think that's a Greek mythology idea.

Seth: Well-

David: God says, "I kill and I make alive."

Seth: Yes.

David: God is the one who... Like, punishment, God said, "In that day you will surely die." In, in Genesis.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And God is the one who punishes justly.

Seth: Yes.

David: Satan does not have the power of death. He has the power of condemnation. He's the accuser. That's his name.

Seth: He's the accuser.

David: HaSatan is the accuser.

Seth: Mm. Okay.

David: He's not the killer.

Seth: Right, right, right.

David: He doesn't have that power.

Seth: I... Satan comes to kill, steal, and destroy.

David: So no.

Seth: Killing.

David: No. Satan... Wait, where, where, where's that? The thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy?

Seth: Yeah.

David: That's John 10 talking about the Pharisees. That's not Satan.

Seth: Well, that's a whole different podcast.

David: Yeah, but I'm just saying, I, I, I don't like this idea-

Seth: Right

David: ... of Satan having this big power to kill people. That's not... Look at Job.

Seth: Right.

David: He had to go ask permission to hurt him, and then he was not allowed to kill him.

Seth: That's fascinating.

David: He doesn't have that ability. He's not, he doesn't have the authority. Like, he has the authority to move kingdoms and whisper in people's ears.

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David: And he thinks that if he can kill this Jesus and stop this Jesus movement, because he thinks, he's not omniscient.

Seth: Right.

David: And so he thinks that this Jesus, this incarnate Son of God, "I know who you are, Son of God."

Seth: Right.

David: You know, he knew who he was.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: This was God incarnate. He knew who he was, and he's thinking, like everyone else is thinking, that there's going to be some kind of rise to the throne.

Seth: Okay.

David: He's gonna take over the kingdoms of this world and rule justly. He's gonna do what David should have done.

Seth: Right.

David: He's gonna rule with peace and goodness and kindness and perfection, and he can't let that happen, because-

Seth: Okay

David: ... then Israel would be reestablished, the temple of God would be filled-

Seth: Yeah, yeah

David: ... and the light of God would go around the world. And so he's like, "If I could kill this king, though-"

Seth: Right

David: ... then it would stop.

Seth: Right.

David: The divine plan of God would stop, and there would be no final good king on the throne of Israel. That's what he's trying to stop.

Seth: Right.

David: And so he kills this king. He works-

Seth: By-

David: He works with the evil authorities of the world.

Seth: He-

David: The Sadducees, the Pharisees, the Roman governors.

Seth: It's kinda like Haman. Haman actually doesn't have final authority to kill Mordecai.

David: No, Xerxes does.

Seth: Xerxes does.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So it's-

David: The king god.

Seth: So he's always, like, whispering in his ear.

David: Yes, yes.

Seth: "Kill this person. Accuse this person. This person's a traitor."

David: Right.

Seth: "This person shouldn't be alive."

David: Right.

Seth: Which is exactly what Satan whispers into the Pharisees' ears-

David: That's right

Seth: ... into Pilate's ears.

David: "Kill him."

Seth: "Kill him."

David: Yes.

Seth: Like, or like... Yeah, yeah.

David: And so he does this thinking it will stop the plan of God.

Seth: Mm.

David: But in doing that, he actually disarms death itself and takes away his only tool, which is accusation.

Seth: Fascinating.

David: Like, because the record of death, the edict of death that came before us that he is always trying to stick on us-

Seth: Right, right

David: ... now it can't, because all of that condemnation has been dealt with in the very act that he put into plan on the cross. [gentle music]

Seth: Okay, so talked a lot about the eternal conspiracy, the eternal demonic conspiracy. This is a holy war that Israel has won.

David: Mm.

Seth: They've defeated the powers of darkness. They defeated the empire. And to commemorate that day, uh, Mordecai makes a new edict-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... that on the day that was meant for the Jew, the people of God's destruction-

David: [laughs]

Seth: ... they will celebrate a feast.

David: Yep.

Seth: And particularly a feast of rest. This is what it says in Esther 9:20.

David: Okay.

Seth: "And M- Mordecai recorded these things," referring to the defeat of the, the empire, "and sent letters to all the Jews who are in all the provinces of King, of the king, both near and far." So pause right there.

David: Mm.

Seth: That's actually a, uh, a, um, a quote from Isaiah 57:19 and 20.

David: Oh.

Seth: Where it said, where there's a messianic blessing, like there's a coming blessing of peace for all of God's people.

David: Mm.

Seth: So what he's doing is he's quoting another author from the exile, and he's saying-

David: Before the exile

Seth: ... before the exile, and he's saying, "The peace that Isaiah's talked about, we're tasting right here and right now."

David: Mm.

Seth: "So let's celebrate it in expectation of a coming and greater day of, of..."

David: Yeah.

Seth: And he says it in the next verse. Uh, "of rest, of obli- and he obligated all the Jews."Uh, to keep the 14th day of the month of Adar, and also the 15th day, a two-day feast, um, as the days on which the Jews got relief from their enemies.

David: Mm.

Seth: That word relief-

David: Yep, that sounds familiar

Seth: ... is super, super important, and it's also the reason he says that they're celebrating at all.

David: Mm.

Seth: The reason that we're celebrating is that we get relief from our enemies. So that word relief or rest is actually all throughout the Bible.

David: Mm.

Seth: It's in the pages of Genesis-

David: Mm

Seth: ... uh, as God creates the world, rest. But more importantly, uh, for this context, it's also the hope of holy war.

David: Right.

Seth: Like, one day, holy war, the enemies of God, the seed of the serpent, will finally be destroyed.

David: Right.

Seth: So in Deuteronomy 12:10, it's promised that once the enemies of God have been destroyed, God's temple can be built-

David: Right

Seth: ... in the promised land. Um, in Joshua, once he destroys all of God's, all the seeds of the serpent-

David: Right, in the... Yep

Seth: ... that's when the temple is finally built. Uh, and-

David: When you have rest from your enemies-

Seth: You, the-

David: ... then-

Seth: The presence of God comes

David: ... the presence of God comes.

Seth: That's exactly right.

David: Okay, okay.

Seth: Um, and even during David's reign, it's one of the markers of David's reign, and the promise in 2 Samuel 7-

David: Yes, right

Seth: ... that you will have rest from your enemies.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: But David cannot build the temple-

David: No

Seth: ... because he's a man of blood.

David: Right.

Seth: So only his son-

David: Yep

Seth: ... who lives in a season and has his hands unstained-

David: Yep

Seth: ... by the holy war.

David: Because he's in a season of rest.

Seth: He's in a season of rest.

David: Can build a temple.

Seth: Build the temple.

David: And when he did, God's presence came and filled it.

Seth: That's exactly right.

David: Yep.

Seth: So, um, what we should see then-

David: Mm

Seth: ... is that when the enemies of God, when the seed of the serpent, is destroyed, God's presence comes and dwells with us.

David: Yeah.

Seth: It lives with us. It fills the temple.

David: Right.

Seth: So really simply, what they're doing here is they're celebrating a taste of it.

David: Yeah.

Seth: They got a taste of it in Persia.

David: In exile.

Seth: In exile.

David: Yeah.

Seth: God's enemy, the enemies of God, the s- the seed of the serpent has been destroyed, so the people of God will celebrate the fact that God's presence has come to us.

David: That's ironic if you think about it.

Seth: Why?

David: Because they are surrounded by their enemies.

Seth: Yes.

David: They're living in exile, and they're-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... claiming rest from their enemies.

Seth: Yes.

David: That's ironic.

Seth: It is ironic.

David: You're surrounded by your enemies, claiming rest from your enemies.

Seth: [laughs]

David: That's not how that works.

Seth: Right. Well, it should also point... So, like, there was a very specific group of enemies, the, the, the forces that were aligned with Haman-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... the forces that aligned with the consiglieri of darkness.

David: And they, they rose up.

Seth: And they rose up, and they were destroyed.

David: I see.

Seth: But the surrounding nation, what happened? They became Jews themselves.

David: [laughs] Right. Yeah.

Seth: It's like, it's a point to the fact that it's not just Jews who can experience-

David: Mm

Seth: ... the presence of God. It's all people.

David: All nations, yep.

Seth: All nisha- nations can experience the presence of God.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So this gets us to Jesus-

David: Yes

Seth: ... pretty simply.

David: Yeah.

Seth: At the cross, Jesus defeats the consiglieri of darkness.

David: Right.

Seth: Like, he no longer has the power to condemn people to death.

David: Right.

Seth: He can no longer do that.

David: Yep.

Seth: And so we-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... become the temple of God-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... because his presence dwells in us.

David: Yeah, and we, we c- b- and, and b- s- before that, it's the, the consiglieri is, is defeated.

Seth: Yep.

David: So we can rest.

Seth: Yes.

David: Right? And then God-

Seth: From our battle.

David: Yeah, from the battle.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So, like, he's not whispering in our ear anymore, 'cause everything he says is a lie.

Seth: Yep.

David: And it's like, "No, I'm perfectly right with God now."

Seth: Right.

David: And so now we are made little temples of God.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And he comes and dwells with us in the midst of exile.

Seth: Yes.

David: We, too, are still in the empire.

Seth: Yeah.

David: We talked about this in the first episode.

Seth: Yeah.

David: We are still in exile, but we become these outposts of the temple of God-

Seth: Mm

David: ... of the presence of God, and now as we go and we live, the fear of the Lord, the grace of the Lord, the edict of life that the Lord has written through the blood of Jesus-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... pours through us, and those in exile-

Seth: Right

David: ... come to the light.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And, like, they convert. Like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... it's amazing.

Seth: That-

David: That's the holy war we go about now.

Seth: Yes.

David: The only holy war Christians are engaged in now is against the enemy, the spiritual enemy.

Seth: Right.

David: And we go and we tear down his thresholds in other people's lives by preaching them the gospel.

Seth: Yes.

David: "Hey, there's no condemnation for you anymore-

Seth: Yes

David: ... because Jesus died for what you f- feel condemned for."

Seth: Yeah.

David: That's the only kind of war that-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... we engage in as Christians.

Seth: Jesus was the last death of the holy war.

David: Yeah, that-

Seth: He's the last casualty-

David: That's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah

Seth: ... of the holy war.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like, he's the last casualty of the holy war.

David: Jesus is the last casualty of holy war.

Seth: Yes.

David: Ooh. [laughs]

Seth: [laughs] That's fun.

David: Like, maybe until the second coming.

Seth: [laughs] Until, uh-

David: Until the second coming

Seth: ... until the-

David: Till the final death.

Seth: And so I wanted to make sure we name right there that when we say, like, uh, Satan is defeated-

David: Mm

Seth: ... it doesn't mean we don't still experience temptation.

David: Correct.

Seth: So, like, in what sense, then, do we have rest from our enemy-

David: Mm

Seth: ... if we're still being tempted by our enemy?

David: Right.

Seth: Does that make sense?

David: Yeah, yep.

Seth: So it's like, I wanna make sure that we, like, are really clear. It's like, the presence of God comes when we have rest from our enemies, but does that mean I have to perfectly experience no temptation-

David: Maybe, maybe this-

Seth: ... nor to feel God's worship

David: ... maybe this is helpful.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Maybe this is helpful. So let's say... This isn't gonna be perfect-

Seth: Okay

David: ... but I think it'll be helpful. So let's say you have an anger issue, right? And one day, that anger issue leads you to kill a person.

Seth: Okay.

David: And you're taken to trial, and you get a not guilty verdict.

Seth: Okay.

David: And let, let's somehow figure out that justice was actually carried out in that situation. [laughs]

Seth: Okay. [laughs]

David: You go home. Your guilt, your, your, your, your guilt is gone.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, no one can bring a charge against you.

Seth: Okay.

David: It's done. The, the court, the case isn't gonna be re-examined.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: There's no guilt that can be brought against you, but you still have an anger issue.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, the, it's still, you know, that's still-

Seth: Right

David: ... a part of you. And, like, and, like-

Seth: You know you committed all those crimes-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... even if for whatever reason you got off free.

David: Oh, maybe that's not a good example then. What I'm trying to say is-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... like, the, the, the, the accuser comes to you and says, "You are still that same murderer."

Seth: Yes.

David: And you're like, "No."

Seth: Like all the justice has been done.

David: Right.

Seth: I'm actually not that person anymore.

David: It is helpful. That is helpful because we have committed true crimes-

Seth: Yes

David: ... against the Kingdom of God.

Seth: Right.

David: We have committed treason against the Kingdom of God, and Satan isn't coming just telling us false things that we did.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: He's telling us true things-

Seth: Right

David: ... about what we did.

Seth: Right.

David: And he's saying, "You should be condemned."

Seth: Right.

David: "You don't deserve to live."

Seth: Right.

David: "You deserve to die. You deserve to stay in whatever hell hole you thought you, you think you deserve."

Seth: Yeah.

David: And what the crazy thing about the gospel is that verdict of guilty, despite the evidence to the contrary-

Seth: Yes

David: ... sticks.

Seth: Yes.

David: And we have a hard time believing we are innocent.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And Satan is always trying to convince us, "No, no, no."

Seth: Right.

David: "You should've got the v- g-

Seth: Right

David: ... verdict of guilty."

Seth: Yep.

David: So one way to... I think that's, a- and we need to-

Seth: Yeah, actually is helpful

David: ... and we need to hold up the edict of life.

Seth: Yes.

David: Romans 8:1. "No, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Seth: Yes.

David: Like-

Seth: There is-

David: ... that's our, that's our, like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... shield. Our, the edict of life.

Seth: There's rest for me in the e-

David: There's rest for me in, in, in Romans 8:1

Seth: ... in the edict of life.

David: [laughs] The edict of life.

Seth: Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly right.

David: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Seth: So it is helpful.

David: Okay.

Seth: It's kinda confusing.

David: It is confusing.

Seth: But it is like, it is kind of what we're talking about.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So the way in which we are no longer under the power of the evil one and get to experience the rest of God's presence is that the verdict of guilty, the verdict of condemnation, the edict of death, has been dealt with.

David: Mm.

Seth: Satan has no final power over us. We will only experience life when we trust in God's Son.

David: Right.

Seth: And in, in the seed of the woman-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... in the, the, uh, Son of the Kingdom.

David: Right.

Seth: Um, however, Satan, the Satan, the seed of the serpent-

David: The accuser

Seth: ... the accuser, he's still trying to convince you that-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... the Edict of Life, it doesn't work.

David: Doesn't apply to you.

Seth: Doesn't apply to you.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So even though-

David: You didn't do anything to earn it or-

Seth: Exactly right.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So I think that, and so the temptation is, well, might as well just act like the Edict of Death-

David: Mm

Seth: ... is still hanging over you.

David: Right.

Seth: If you're gonna die anyway.

David: Yep. If I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die.

Seth: If you're gonna die, you're gonna die. Why not?

David: When I die, I die.

Seth: [laughs] Why not?

David: This is, this is Esther.

Seth: Do whatever you wanna do.

David: Yeah. Right.

Seth: Why not fulfill your greatest desires?

David: Right.

Seth: Why not eat, drink, and be merry? Because tomorrow you die.

David: Right.

Seth: The Edict of Death is coming for you.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: So I think that's probably the way in which-

David: Yep

Seth: ... uh, temptation still works itself out while the power of it-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... is actually gone.

David: Which is why, like, Paul will say, when he says, like, "Don't, don't sin, don't fall into-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... old patterns that you used to," he says, "Do you not know that you were bought with a price?"

Seth: Yeah.

David: "That you are the temple of the Holy Spirit? Like, don't listen to the lies of who you were."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "Listen to the truth of who you've been made to be."

Seth: Yes. So here are the good news of the, the Book of Esther. Because of Jesus's victory on the cross over the power of the serpent, you are at rest-

David: Mm

Seth: ... from the condemnation, from the Edict of Death.

David: Yeah.

Seth: It cannot come from you. So live like the edict is true.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Amass your followers.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Amass, muster your friends for the goal of seeing Persia and the empire come into the Kingdom.

David: Yeah. That's so good.

Seth: Yeah.

David: That's so good. Uh, one thing I love about this day of rest is that it's called the Day of Lots.

Seth: Yes.

David: Right?

Seth: The, the Feast of Purim, the Day of the Dice.

David: So-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... the Day of the Dice memorializes forever this beauty of the Book of Esther that it looks like everything happened by chance, but it's all divinely orchestrated.

Seth: Yes.

David: Because it's like this Day of the Dice, that it's like, oh, and I guess it's all random, and it's just-

Seth: Right

David: ... everything's happening by the roll of the dice. And, like, life can feel that way. Like, everything feels random.

Seth: Feels like God-

David: Everything's by chance.

Seth: Yep.

David: God's out of control-

Seth: Yep

David: ... or not even real.

Seth: Right.

David: And it's like, but the Day of the Dice is a yearly festival to show the people that even though this day was picked by a roll of the dice, God was in control of it all to bring about his purpose.

Seth: What Haman thought was a roll of dice is actually God's seventh day of creation.

David: [laughs] Oh, that's good.

Seth: [laughs] You know what I mean? Like-

David: Yeah, yeah

Seth: ... the day of rest comes not by Haman's dice-

David: Yes

Seth: ... but my, by my power-

David: Mm

Seth: ... and my new creation in you.

David: Wow.

Seth: New life.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Welcome to the eighth day.

David: That's-

Seth: Welcome to the eighth day. Let's go.

David: [laughs] That's so cool. Um, okay, so the book ends-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... with, um-

Seth: Mm

David: ... chapter 10. Very short chapter.

Seth: Super short chapter.

David: And we'll talk about maybe why it's so short.

Seth: Yeah.

David: [laughs]

Seth: Uh, yeah, we'll talk about that a little bit.

David: But, but-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... three verses in this chapter, and the first verse is, "King Ahasuerus, or King Xerxes, the king, uh, imposed tax on the land and on the coastlands of the sea, and all the acts of his power and might, and the full account of his honor-

Seth: Of the-

David: ... of the high honor of Mordecai." Oh, sorry, yeah.

Seth: Yeah.

David: I was getting, I was getting too excited.

Seth: You were getting too excited.

David: But yeah.

Seth: "To which the king-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... advanced him."

David: Right.

Seth: "Are, are they in, uh-

David: "Are all written in the book of the chronicles-

Seth: ... the chronicles

David: ... of the kings of Media and Persia." And so we get this last little statement here, you know, before the ending.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And it's like the king is re-exerting his power. He's taxing-

Seth: The people of God

David: ... the people of God, and it's like, wait a second, that doesn't sound like rest, and that doesn't sound like peace-

Seth: Mm-mm

David: ... and that doesn't sound like prosperity. The people of God are still in the empire.

Seth: Yep.

David: The, the taxes aren't going to the temple.

Seth: Right.

David: These aren't the tithes and free will offerings of the people of God.

Seth: They're going back to the shallowness and the gregariousness-

David: Yeah, this is, yeah

Seth: ... and the hollowness.

David: The people of God's-

Seth: Self-indulgence

David: ... resources, which were once used to build the tabernacle in the wilderness, are now being go, g- are going to, uh, further, or, like, uh, make beautiful the false inner court of King Xerxes.

Seth: Right, and which is what our taxes do-

David: Oh, yeah, totally

Seth: ... today. There's how many-

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... governmental organizations, wars that are being fought-

David: Yep

Seth: ... organizations that are being funded-

David: Yep

Seth: ... by the taxes imposed on the people of God. It's-

David: That we could be using for other things. Mm-hmm.

Seth: So what that points to is that this battle-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... even as we experience victory, is not yet over.

David: That's right.

Seth: The satan- the eternal, uh, satanic conspiracy-

David: Is still going on

Seth: ... is still going on.

David: Yep.

Seth: And I think even, like-Esther is giving us categories for victory, yet continued conflict.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Jesus, victory-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... continued conflict.

David: That's right. Rest and exile.

Seth: Rest and exile is happening side by side.

David: Mm.

Seth: So what we're really hoping for is a final-

David: Rest in rest.

Seth: Yes.

David: And, like, freedom in freedom, peace in peace.

Seth: Yes.

David: Like, where there's no more tension between the two, but that rest is full, final, continual, uninterrupted rest.

Seth: Yep.

David: That peace is deep, abiding, like, not going anywhere peace.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Shalom. You know, like, that's what we-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... want.

Seth: So-

David: And we're not there yet.

Seth: We're not there yet.

David: Yeah.

Seth: The Book of Esther actually, like, for- like, is a foreshadow of Armageddon.

David: Yes.

Seth: So when the people, uh, the final enemies of God, the final seeds of the serpent, the final empire comes against the final armies of the people of God's kingdom.

David: Yep.

Seth: And there's a great battle, just like there here-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... is in the Book of Esther, and God's people are victorious.

David: Yes. Very quickly.

Seth: Very quickly, by the mouth of Jesus.

David: The mouth of Je- of Jesus. He just speaks.

Seth: He speaks a word.

David: And they are destroyed.

Seth: And they're destroyed.

David: Yep. And I wonder-

Seth: They take none of their plunder

David: ... I wonder if what he'll say is, "It is finished."

Seth: "It is finished."

David: But, you know, who knows? [laughs]

Seth: Who knows. That would be awesome. [laughs]

David: That would be dope. [laughs]

Seth: "It is, it is finished."

David: Yeah.

Seth: Uh-

David: And so, um, I, I think it's really interesting, you know, as we, as we, uh, we've looked at this and, and really, I think we have doubled down on what you and I are con- convinced is the central theme of this book, which-

Seth: At least the, the central c- like, the central-

David: The central conflict

Seth: ... yeah, the conflict, the tension-

David: Yes

Seth: ... the setting

David: ... is, is between Haman and Mordecai.

Seth: Yes.

David: And, and ultimately between what they represent-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... which are the people of God and the people of the serpent.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And so with that, a- and so, like, we, we were kinda talking about, like, I think that's right.

Seth: That is right.

David: And we, we, we talked about it even more last night.

Seth: And not to say that they aren't real people in real history.

David: Absolutely. And, and, yeah.

Seth: Because if they're not real people in real history, it has, doesn't actually work.

David: Yes.

Seth: We still believe the conciliary of darkness is whispering to every world leader right now.

David: Yeah.

Seth: He's whispering to us right now.

David: Yes.

Seth: Like, this has to have happened in history.

David: This, this all happens, yes.

Seth: Yeah. [laughs]

David: Uh, but it is. But God... And that just shows further that nothing is a roll of the dice. God is in control of everything, 'cause He's using things that actually happened to tell bigger stories.

Seth: Yes.

David: And so, but, but we were talking about this, and then, um, and then we, we, we started to realize that the Book of Esther actually has what are called deuterocanonical chapters.

Seth: So-

David: Now, that's a big, fancy word for, like, the, the, the, that there are chapters added on at a later time to this book.

Seth: So if you attend a Catholic church-

David: Yep

Seth: ... you're familiar with Apocrypha.

David: The deuterocanonical books is what they're also called.

Seth: Yeah. And they're just added to it.

David: And so these books, uh, so if you are a Catholic or maybe even Greek Orthodox, you might have these chapters in your Bible.

Seth: Yep.

David: And so we don't as Protestants, but it is very interesting, uh, how these later editions shed light on how to interpret the Book of Esther.

Seth: Yeah. Chap- at least the history of interpretation of the Book of Esther.

David: Yep.

Seth: And chapter 11 goes and describes a dream that Mordecai has-

David: Yes

Seth: ... between these two dragons that are trying to consume-

David: The people of God

Seth: ... the people of God.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And this small number of people, like, I think it's like, like a tiny, uh, spring-

David: Yep

Seth: ... rushes out like a great river and destroys-

David: The dragons

Seth: ... the dragons.

David: Yes. And we have, and like in, like... And so, like, we're like, "Oh, this is the dream that Mordecai has to help him understand what's happening-

Seth: Yes

David: ... to himself and Haman and Esther." What's really going on behind the scenes, God showed him in this dream, h- you know, apparently.

Seth: Of the serpent. Yeah. Uh-

David: And it's this, it's this great dragon, the serpent from-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... from eternity past. And so, like, uh-

Seth: Which is exactly what John dreams in, uh, his Apocalypse-

David: Exactly

Seth: ... in the Book of Revelation.

David: There's a dragon, there's water.

Seth: So even if it's not inspired literature-

David: Right

Seth: ... it's just somebody interpreting the book for us-

David: It's still very helpful

Seth: ... it's super helpful.

David: Yep.

Seth: We actually have a history of interpretation that says that this isn't just Xerxes versus-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... it's just not Haman versus Mordecai.

David: Which is just a really-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... good thing for us to remember, that the things going on in this world are not just earthly, that, that there, there-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... there are, there are spiritual elements to the decisions that world leaders make, and that you and I make on a day-to-day basis.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, how we treat one another is not just a carnal decision.

Seth: Yeah.

David: It is one that has spiritual ramifications for how that person will live the rest of their life and have a relationship with God.

Seth: Right.

David: And, like, the same thing happens at a geopolitical scale, like how-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... how countries interact with one another.

Seth: Yes.

David: And, like, God is doing something through all of that.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And it might seem, especially right now, it might seem that it's all out of control. It might seem that there's just-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... someone, someone is rolling the dice, and I really hope it doesn't turn up double six.

Seth: Yeah.

David: You know? [laughs]

Seth: [laughs] Yeah.

David: And, like, uh, but God is in control. Like, that's, I think, is, is the-

Seth: That's the big point

David: ... is the big point. And we see that most clearly in the fact that when it came up double sixes for Jesus, you know? [laughs]

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David: And the lots did not fall in his favor.

Seth: On that day.

David: On that day, he died.

Seth: Yeah.

David: We, we see that God is still in control.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And he rose from the dead. And, like, God is doing something with all the w- seeming chaos.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And he's doing something beautiful, like, so beautiful that when you look at the Book of Esther, you're like, "There has to be an author behind this book."

Seth: Right. The justice is too poetic for there not to be.

David: Yep. And so think about this. One day, we will be able to look back on the historical events that have unfolded throughout all the centuries on Earth, and it will look like this beautiful, poetic chiasm-

Seth: Yeah, right

David: ... like the Book of Esther. It will all make sense. It will all have a, a part and counterpart-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... a point and counterpoint. And, like, everything, we will see that God has built this grand narrative, and the end result of that narrative-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... will be us saying, "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty."

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, "You are glorious. You are perfect. You are beautiful."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "Your works are beyond compare. Oh, the depths of the wisdom of the knowledge of God, how unsearchable are His ways." Like, that-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... is what will pour out of us when we see the final book of Esther-

Seth: Right

David: ... like, uh, like in the chiasm of the world.

Seth: The eschatological book of Esther.

David: It'll be amazing.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, that's what God's doing in the seeming chaos and dice rolls of the world.

Seth: Yes.

David: He is in control, not the seed of the serpent.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And that is-

Seth: Nothing's a roll of the dice.

David: Yeah, nothing's the roll, nothing's a roll of the dice.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And I think that is the good news that Esther brings us.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So.

Seth: There it is.

David: Can I ask you one more question, though?

Seth: No, yeah, yeah, yeah.

David: Before we go? Don't, don't there it is yet.

Seth: I won't there it is. Let's move from, like, the political-

David: Okay

Seth: ... and the chaotic forces of the world-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... to what will it feel like to experience final rest from the consiglieres-

David: Oh

Seth: ... of darkness?

David: Yes.

Seth: So, like, I have in my mind, like, there, I think it- it's Augustine, he says in the, in the garden, Adam was able-

David: Able

Seth: ... not-

David: Able to sin-

Seth: A-

David: ... and not able to sin.

Seth: He was able not, uh, not [laughs] Where is he going?

David: Posse peccare and posse non peccare-

Seth: So

David: ... is the Latin.

Seth: So he said he was-

David: Able to sin and able not to sin.

Seth: Yes.

David: Yes.

Seth: Uh, after Adam.

David: So basically what, basically what that means is-

Seth: Right

David: ... he actually was free-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... in his own heart to actually do the right thing.

Seth: Yes.

David: But he also was free to do the wrong thing.

Seth: Yes.

David: Now, we believe that that is how every human being operates.

Seth: Yeah.

David: We believe every human being has that freedom to do right or do wrong.

Seth: Right.

David: No. The fall comes in, and we are, um, posse, uh-

Seth: Not

David: ... not able not to sin.

Seth: Yes.

David: We're non posse non peccare.

Seth: Yeah, we're not able not to sin.

David: The only thing we can do is sin, because everything we do, even if it looks right, is unjustly motivated, it's selfish.

Seth: Part of the em- it's, it's in- so intricately connected with the empire that you-

David: It's all in service of the prince of the power of the air.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah. But then whenever, whenever we become Christians-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... the, the, that, that bond, that slavery is broken.

Seth: Yeah. We are now-

David: And now we're-

Seth: ... not to sin

David: ... now we go back to Adam's state, and we're able, we are able to s- able not to sin and able to sin.

Seth: Yeah. And-

David: But, yeah. But then-

Seth: Then, on the last day-

David: Yes

Seth: ... when the final reversal comes, when the final rest comes-

David: We will not be able to sin.

Seth: Yes.

David: Ah, it's the best.

Seth: So good. So-

David: It's my favorite thing.

Seth: So what-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... does that feel like?

David: I don't know.

Seth: [laughs]

David: But I wanna know so bad.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, could you just imagine, like, think about your greatest sin, the thing that you struggle with, and every time it happens, you just get wrecked, and you're like, "Why is this still here?" Imagine going to the place where your sin ul- ultimately comes up. You know? Like, the, the place where you always are confronted with it, and you can't avoid it when you go to that place. Like an alcoholic going to a bar.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Right? You go to that place, and you have no desire for that sin anymore. You don't go, "Man, that still looks good, but I have the power to overcome it." That's not what we're talking about here. We're not talking about you will always be able to say no.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Right?

Seth: No.

David: That's not what we're talking about.

Seth: No.

David: We're saying the desire for that sin will be completely obliterated. You won't even want it anymore. And, and, and, and every false desire will be replaced with better ones. And so all that you will s- be able, all you will say to your desires every time they pop up in your heart is yes.

Seth: Hmm.

David: Every desire in your heart, that you'll just say yes to, and that, and that yes to your inmost desire won't be a sin, it will be good.

Seth: Hmm.

David: It will be-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... it will be righteousness that you enact, and you will be doing it perfectly consistent with your own desires, because that's how God operates.

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David: Oh, that's, I just, I, like, want that so bad.

Seth: Like, I, I feel myself being, like, tired of sinning.

David: Right?

Seth: I feel tired having to second-guess-

David: Your motives

Seth: ... all my deci- decisions.

David: Yes.

Seth: Because were they, were they inspired by the empire?

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like, I'm tired trying, uh, not to yell at my kids-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... and failing at that.

David: Right.

Seth: Like, I'm tired of, like, trying to be a good husband-

David: Mm

Seth: ... and failing at that.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Like, I'm tired of being selfish and then having to catch myself. Like, I'm tired of rehearsing my past mistakes in my head and listening to that accusing-

David: And feeling condemned

Seth: ... the, the, the eating to death and f- hating myself for it.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like, I'm exhausted. Like, I, I groan to be free, free by that ping pong in my mind between, like, "I'm better than everybody else and deserve to be celebrated," and then [laughs]-

David: And worse

Seth: ... "And worse than..." Like, I do that all the time.

David: [laughs] Yeah.

Seth: One of my favorite lines in The Chronicles of Narnia, I think I've said this before-

David: You probably have, but go for it

Seth: ... but, like, is when Prince Caspian dies.

David: Oh.

Seth: And he enters into Narnia's version of heaven-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... with Aslan, the final rest. And he asks Aslan, "Aslan, uh, can I see my friends one last time?"

David: Mm.

Seth: Like, he wants to go see, like, Edmund and Lucy-

David: Yeah, yeah

Seth: ... and everybody. And then he catches himself, and he's like, "Oh, is that okay?"

David: Mm.

Seth: "Am I allowed to want that? Is it okay for me to want that?" And Aslan responds, "My child, you cannot want wrong things anymore."

David: You cannot want wrong things anymore.

Seth: Like, can you imagine?

David: Bring that on. [laughs]

Seth: Never wanting a wrong thing again?

David: Oh, my gosh.

Seth: Like, I feel like I spend so much time-

David: Oh

Seth: ... trying to figure out if something I want is a good thing or a bad thing or a foolish things. Like-

David: You will not want w- wrong things anymore.

Seth: I will not want wrong things anymore.

David: You will only eat from the tree of life.

Seth: You will experience rest-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... internally.

David: Internal rest.

Seth: Yes.

David: Uh.

Seth: Every desire I will ever have is always, "Go. Yes."

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: "Do."

David: Yep.

Seth: "Enjoy."

David: Yep, and God will smile upon each of those decisions that you make internally-

Seth: Yes

David: ... consistent with your own affections.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Amazing.

Seth: Could you imagine everything that you wanna do is allowed?

David: And, like, makes God happy-

Seth: And is celebrated

David: ... and is consistent with his desires? Like-

Seth: That's the rest the Book of Esther-

David: Yes

Seth: ... invites us to hope for.

David: Definitely.

Seth: The empire is gone.

David: Yes.

Seth: The consiglieri of sin can no longer condemn-

David: Yep

Seth: ... that we are no longer so intermingled with the empire-

David: Mm

Seth: ... that we have to second-guess all of our decisions.

David: Right, like we do when we read Esther.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: We're like, "Is she good or bad?"

Seth: Right.

David: "I don't know."

Seth: "Am I good or bad?"

David: "Am I good or bad?"

Seth: "I don't know."

David: That's not, no more.

Seth: There is rest-

David: There's rest

Seth: ... from every enemy.

David: Oh, that's so good. I'm glad you, you held on to that.

Seth: [laughs]

David: Don't, don't end yet.

Seth: Yeah.

David: That's good news. What, now can I, now can I end?

Seth: Now end.

David: That's the, that's the place to land the plane. I love it.

Seth: Then go for it. [laughs]

David: Well, that's it.

Seth: That's it.

David: There we go.

Seth: That's the Book of Esther.

David: That's the Book of Esther.

Seth: I'm pretty sure we could talk for a l- good bit longer in the Book of Esther.

David: Yeah. We-

Seth: But

David: ... i- this is a beautiful book.

Seth: This is yeah.

David: It really is. We hope this has been enjoyable for you guys. Um, thank you if you're watching.

Seth: Mm.

David: Thank you for joining us on our first series on YouTube.

Seth: Please subscribe to YouTube-

David: Yep, subscribe

Seth: ... and to our podcast.

David: Yep, yep.

Seth: Uh, like us.

David: Yep.

Seth: That's how more people find out about Jesus and all of Scripture.

David: Yep, yep. You always say like us, but it's, it's leave us a review.

Seth: Leave us a review.

David: That's right, yeah.

Seth: It's a five-star rating.

David: Five-star rating. Leave us a review.

Seth: Nothing below five stars, or one star that you define why it's one star.

David: Yeah, that's good.

Seth: You can't leave a one-star rating-

David: Yeah, that's right

Seth: ... and not tell us why.

David: Um, and then if you're watching on YouTube, or if you're new to the podcast, um, we've been doing this for a year and a half.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So there's a huge back catalog. We have episodes on every single chapter of the Torah, so go binge. Go for it.

Seth: Binge the Torah.

David: And so anyway, uh, we'll be back next week with more goodies. We're still debating on-

Seth: Yep

David: ... what book we wanna do next, so I can't-

Seth: We'll figure it out

David: ... I can't reveal it yet. It'll be a surprise.

Seth: Surprise.

David: So thank you, guys, so much for joining us, and we'll see you next time. [upbeat music]

Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a non-profit that gives all its resources, like this podcast, away for free because of supporters like you. To help Spoken Gospel in our mission to speak the gospel out of every corner of Scripture and view all our free resources, visit spokengospel.com. [upbeat music]

Related Resources

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The Day of Death Becomes the Day of Life: How Esther 9–10 Points to the Cross and Final Rest

Show Notes

The Counter-Edict and the Conversion of the Empire

Two Edicts: Condemnation and Life

Holy War and the Defeat of the Serpent

The Day of Death Becomes the Day of Life

Rest in the Midst of Exile

The Promise of Final Rest

Related Resources

Introduction to Esther

View our devotional on Esther 1:1-2:18

Ready to study a different book?

Listen to the Esther 1-3: Introduction podcast

Listen to the Esther 4-8 Part 1: Ironic Reversals podcast

Listen to the Esther 4-8 Part 2: Queen Esther podcast

Listen to the Esther 9-10: The Edict podcast