Seth: [upbeat music] No, I mean, I think that's a good word of warning.
David: Okay.
Seth: It's like we, we don't bring out the nukes for-
Seth: [laughing]
David: [laughing]
Seth: ... uh, uh, for, for a fistfight.
David: For a water gun fight.
Seth: Yeah. [laughing]
David: Yeah. Right, yeah. [laughing]
Intro: Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a ministry that's dedicated to speaking the gospel out of every corner of scripture. In Luke 24, Jesus told his disciples that every part of the Bible is about him. In each episode, hosts David and Seth work through a passage of scripture to see how it's all about Jesus and his good news. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]
David: Well, welcome, everybody, to the Spoken Gospel podcast. We're so glad you're joining us today. We are jumping into a few special or called out [chuckles] passages inside of Paul's letter, known as 2 Corinthians. We're gonna look at a few of those passages that may be confusing or have a lot to unpack in them, things like being unequally yoked, or Paul's visit to the third heaven, or what was his thorn in the flesh? A lot of fun topics-
Seth: Classic
David: ... in this letter. You and I have already discussed this letter, Seth.
Seth: Yes, we did. We did a overview, man-
David: A while ago.
Seth: A year ago, maybe.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Yeah.
David: But we've been working through writing the devotionals for it, and it just made us highlight a few cool things.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And I was like, "This would be fun to get you in here and just talk about it."
Seth: So excited.
David: So it's probably a little fresher in my mind right now, and-
Seth: 'Cause you're writing them.
David: 'Cause I'm writing these devos.
Seth: You're writing them, yeah.
David: But, uh, you are still... You spend a lot of time in this letter as well.
Seth: I do. I do love a good 2 Corinthians-
David: It's a good one
Seth: ... moment.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So I guess setting just a brief setup for 2 Corinthians would probably be helpful for context.
Seth: Okay.
David: Uh, what do you-
Seth: Remind me.
David: Yeah, well, I was like- [laughing]
Seth: Or [laughing]
David: ... I was like, "What do you remember?"
Seth: Okay, what I remember about 2 Corinthians is that
Seth: this is, like, the fifth of his correspondences-
David: [laughing] Oh, boy, yeah
Seth: ... with, uh, the church at Corinth.
David: Something like that.
Seth: Like, Corinth has had a lot of problems.
David: We don't know how many letters they've sent back and forth.
Seth: Uh, like-
David: He did not write two letters to them.
Seth: He did not write only two letters. [chuckles]
David: Yeah.
Seth: This is the second that we have.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And he has been going back and forth over a number of issues. 2 Corinthians
Seth: zeroes in on, like, the Corinthians' problems with his apostolic, like, authority.
David: Yeah, yeah.
Seth: And, like, because there's a group of people that Paul, like, jabs at, like the super apostles-
David: Oh, yeah, the h-
Seth: Uh, um- [chuckles]
David: What, what's the... The, the, it's, like, the hyper something-
Seth: The hyperapostolos
David: ... apostles.
Seth: Yeah. [laughing]
David: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth: The, uh... So-
David: He makes up a superhero mocking word for them.
Seth: Yeah, so there's this group of people who are claiming to have more authority than Paul, who have been stirring dissension and critiquing Paul's ministry in Corinth. And so this letter is coming in to, like, validate his own ministry-
David: Yep
Seth: ... debunk some of the claims of the false apostles and, like, bring some peace to-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... to, to Corinth.
David: Totally.
Seth: That's what I remember.
David: Like riding a bike.
Seth: Like riding a bike. [laughing]
David: You got it, man. Uh, yeah, and I think interestingly, too, if we talk about, like, the sequence of letters-
Seth: Yes
David: ... this letter came after his, what he calls his harsh letter or his, like, difficult letter-
Seth: Oh, yes
David: ... where he went to task-
Seth: Yes
David: ... against some of these issues in the church.
Seth: Okay.
David: Specifically, probably calling out some very particular and grievous sins in the church.
Seth: Okay.
David: Um, maybe even this person he called out in 1 Corinthians, who was having sexual relations with his mother-in-law?
Seth: Mother-in-law.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Uh, which is just nasty.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Um, and so he wrote this really intense letter-
Seth: Not even the pagans do this!
David: Yeah, not even the pagans do this. [laughing]
Seth: [laughing] That's what Paul says, yeah.
David: Um, and so and he, and he... And the last couple of trips he's made to Corinth have been painful visits.
Seth: That's right.
David: So he's-
Seth: That's right
David: ... he's made a couple of trips to Corinth, where he's had to continue-
Seth: Mm-mm
David: ... to rebuke them-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and to try to move them away from their pagan cultures and their Corinthian ways and, you know, their Greekness, which is just full of revelry and drunkenness and debauchery and idol worship.
Seth: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
David: And he's been trying to lead them away from those things to Christ conformity.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And up to this point now, you have this letter that was written, this harsh, difficult letter-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... which apparently Paul says later in the passage we're gonna read today, that he wrote it in tears.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, it hurt him so much to write this letter.
Seth: It was, well, it was, like, painful for him to write-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... not just painful to receive.
David: That's right.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Because he loves them so much.
Seth: Yeah.
David: But it must have been a really intense letter.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, it's never fun to rebuke people if you're soft-hearted and you love them.
Seth: So if that was the painful letter, is this the [chuckles] frustrated letter? [laughing]
David: This... So, uh, yeah, that's a good question.
Seth: Uh.
David: I would describe this one... If that was the painful letter, I would describe this one as, like, the preparatory letter or-
Seth: Because he's on his way to visit.
David: He's on his way. He's coming.
Seth: Okay.
David: And so the whole time-
Seth: I forgot about that
David: ... he's like, "I am coming to you, and I would really like it to not be another painful visit.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: So can you get your house in order [chuckles] before I get there-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... so we can have some fun together, so we can just rejoice-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and have thanksgiving and good times?"
Seth: And so the, even, like, his own defense of his, like, the, the authority Jesus has delegated to him as an apostle, like, his defense of it is like, "Hey, I'm coming to you to talk shop, to, like, help you and your church. Like, to pr- to best prepare for that visit, we need to, like, we need to be reconciled and to realize, like, our relationship to one another-
David: That's right
Seth: ... and why I'm speaking to you this way."
David: Yeah, he needs to be like, "I..." He, he's, he's like, "I didn't write you this painful letter to grieve you-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and to make you think I hate you," and all this stuff. "I, I really need you-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... to kick out these false teachers or for them to repent. And I need you guys to get rid of the sin that's going on in your church-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... that I keep calling out again and again and again."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And these aren't little sins, like tiny squabbles or-
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... you know, "Oh, you lusted," or something like [chuckles] this is like-
Seth: You're dividing the church-
David: Yeah!
Seth: ... and how you practice spiritual gifts.
David: It's-
Seth: You're-
David: It's big stuff.
Seth: Yeah, yeah.
David: And so he's wr-
Seth: Getting drunk in communion
David: ... he's writing this letter. Yeah, getting drunk at communion, yeah.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So he's writing this letter to try to get them to prepare for his visit.
Seth: Okay.
David: And so that's all the context. So what we're gonna look at today-
Seth: ... is his famous statement that gets used all the time about being unequally yoked.
David: Okay. Yes.
Seth: So-
David: I've heard this many times.
Seth: How h- yeah, how have you heard it used?
David: Um, I mean, almost... I mean, the first time I remember, I remember crying in my bedroom-
Seth: Oh, my gosh! [chuckles]
David: ... because I had asked a non-believing girl to the dance. [chuckles]
Seth: How- Seth-
David: And then-
Seth: Seth, how could you?
David: [laughing] How could I? I remember, like, like, a, 'cause I liked her, and I thought she was cute, and I invited her to the dance, and then I went home and felt an immense amount of guilt because I read this verse, and it said, "Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers." [chuckles]
Seth: [chuckles]
David: And then my dad saw me, like, struggling so much, he didn't, he didn't correct me anymore, and he said, "Just go to the dance, son." [chuckles]
Seth: Just go to the dance.
David: And I, and I did.
Seth: Just go dance with this other beast.
David: Th- this, this, this unb- [chuckles] this unbeliever.
Seth: This unbeliever. [chuckles]
David: And that's the, that's, that's my, like, visceral-
Seth: Oh-
David: ... That's my first memory-
Seth: You have a very visceral memory about this.
David: Very visceral memory with this verse. And then, um, I've heard it, you know, like, just kind of like offhand most of the time. I don't think I've ever heard anybody, like, open up to, to 2 Corinthians 6 and preach it, like, verse by verse-
Seth: Sure
David: ... and explain it in its context and why it's here. But I've heard it offhand-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... a number of times.
Seth: Oh, yeah.
David: Normally about, like, this is why Christian... Like, Christians shouldn't marry a non-Christian.
Seth: Right.
David: Is, like, the most common way that I've heard it.
Seth: Yeah, I think that's the same for me. I remember being in youth group when I first heard this concept-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... uh, in, like, middle school or something, and they were talking about who you're gonna marry, and they brought up being unequally yoked. They quoted this passage.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And it was the idea of, like, if you're trying to walk towards Jesus-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and the other person's walking away from him, you know-
David: Yes.
Seth: They, they talked about how yokes work, you know?
David: Yes.
Seth: They're these, like, wooden beams that go over two animals as they pull-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... a plow.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And if they all... They need to be walking in the same direction.
David: Okay.
Seth: And so the picture was, like, if, if you're walking towards Jesus, and the other person's walking away from him, you're gonna... Your, your trough, you're like the-
David: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth: What do you call that? What do you plow? What do you... You plow a trough, a... What do you, what do you call that?
David: A furrow.
Seth: A furrow?
David: Right.
Seth: Is that right?
David: I'm pretty sure it's a furrow.
Seth: A furrow.
David: You plow-
Seth: Is that why you call it furrowing your brow? 'Cause that's what these are-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... like little furrows?
David: [chuckles] Yeah, it is.
Seth: Oh! [laughing]
David: [chuckles]
Seth: Man, I've never put that together.
David: I mean, the farmers out there-
Seth: The farmers
David: ... please, please correct us. [chuckles]
Seth: [chuckles] I'm pretty sure you plow a furrow.
David: Well, then the furrow-
Seth: Uh
David: ... if we're using this right-
Seth: [chuckles]
David: ... clearly we are not farmers, uh, like, turns away, and that's just not, not a good way to plow your field.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: So that's how I heard it first.
Seth: Yes.
David: And so when then reading this passage, you're like, "This is not about marriage." [chuckles]
Seth: Well, that's my first question. So, like, we talked about the broader context of it.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Paul has some things to say about marriage in the books, in, in his Letters to the Corinthians.
David: He does.
Seth: But the main thrust of it seems to be against, like, false teachers-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and, uh, false teachers and, like, yoking yourself with pagan, like, your pagan past.
David: That's right.
Seth: So that, that would be my intuition-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... as to what Paul is doing here. So I was gon- my question to you is, like, how does the beginning of chapter 6 lead in? 'Cause that's verse 14.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Like, what's Paul's argument in this chapter that leads him to say, "Don't be unequally yoked with unbelievers?"
David: Yeah, so that's a good question. So he, he starts off in chapter 6, kind of sustaining an argument he's been making since the beginning, which is basically attacking the comparison that the super apostles have been jockeying against him.
Seth: Okay.
David: Which is, they are strong and successful and good at their jobs, right? They are really great orators and preachers. They look the part.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: They have letters of recommendation-
Seth: Mm
David: ... probably from leaders in Jerusalem. Like, these are seminary graduate-
Seth: Mm
David: ... expert, expert homiletical teachers-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... um, who know what they're doing.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And look at their lives. They're not being persecuted. They're not suffering. They're not poor. Why? Because they're doing it right. Like, they're doing it well.
Seth: So that's what the super apostles are saying. They're saying that our success is a marker of, like, God's stamp. Like, our success is God's stamp of approval on our ministry.
David: Right.
Seth: And because we're successful and because we're wealthy, God is clearly smiling on what we're doing.
David: Yeah, or at least just not being persecuted and poor.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, there's a reason why Paul's ministry is struggling. It's because he's not a legitimate teacher. So they compare them to Paul, who's out there being beaten up by everybody, rejected. He's poor. He's sleeping in tents. He's homeless. He's... Yeah, a- and it's just-
Seth: Yes
David: ... like, look, come on, guys-
Seth: Right
David: ... let's just compare apples to apples here. Who do you want leading your church?
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so this is how they're delegitimizing Paul's ministry. So here in chapter 6, he continues to talk about his main argument for the entire letter-
Seth: Mm, mm-hmm
David: ... which is, "Let's just answer this question, Corinthians. Which of us looks more like Jesus?"
Seth: Mm-hmm. Okay.
David: Because-
Seth: Yeah, that's right
David: ... was Jesus wealthy and well-respected and never suffered and braggadocious and all these things?
Seth: Yeah.
David: No!
Seth: Yeah.
David: He was poor, homeless, suffered-
Seth: Mm
David: ... rejected-
Seth: Mm, mm-hmm
David: ... sh- ashamed, beaten, persecuted, outcast.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Who looks like Jesus?
Seth: Yeah, that's what he says here, v- verse 4: uh, "But as servants of God, we commend ourselves to you in every way. By our endurance in affliction, hardships, calamities, [chuckles] beatings, imprisonments-
David: [chuckles]
Seth: ... riots, [chuckles] labors, sleepless nights, hunger, and in our purity, knowledge, patience, kindness, the Holy Spirit." So he's like-
David: Yes
Seth: ... "We're, we're legitimate apostles of the great Apostle Jesus, who suffered for your sins."
David: That's right.
Seth: Like, yeah, that's what he's saying.
David: Yeah, and you're meant to laugh. Like, the whole thing is-
Seth: Ah
David: ... an, uh, an ironic, jokey, condescending satire.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, that's the whole letter is like this.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, he's-
David: Um, and so much so that he's like, "All right, you know what? I'm gonna boast. I'm... I'll, I'll play your game. I'll boast like the super apostles."
Seth: That's what he does.
David: "Are you ready for this?" Later in the letter-
Seth: Yeah, yeah
David: ... it's like, "I'll boast. You know what? One time, there was this, there was this city I was in, and I was being chased down by the rulers of the city, and guess how I escaped?"... and instead of being like, "I kicked in the front door-
Seth: Yeah, yeah, [laughs]
David: -and bashed some teeth in," or something like that, he's like, "I snuck out in the middle of the night-
Seth: [laughs]
David: -through a hole in the wall, and was shamefully lowered through a basket, and got out of there in the dead of night." [laughs]
Seth: [laughs]
David: Like, he's like, "There's my boasting." [laughs] And it is a joke, like-
Seth: That's right.
David: And he's trying to show them how stupid boasting is.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Because the only thing worth boasting in is Jesus.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And why is that? Because ultimately, give me all your credentials, give me all your letters of recommendation, it doesn't matter, you're all going to succumb to the same power.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Pain, death, sin, it's all gonna win. And there's only one-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... who went through all those things and came out the other side.
Seth: Jesus.
David: Jesus! So we can boast in our weakness and in our suffering, 'cause we know where it leads.
Seth: Okay.
David: So, so, like, victory and success don't lead to more victory and success.
Seth: Yeah.
David: That ultimately dies.
Seth: Yeah.
David: The only thing that leads to victory and success is the death of Jesus, so whose ministry looks like that?
Seth: Yeah.
David: So that's how we get here.
Seth: So that's what he's talking about, the chapter 20- uh, chapter 6, and then the verse 11, when he says, "We have spoken freely to you, Corinthians. Our heart is wide open." He's like, "We've- I'm telling you, I'm not hiding anything from you."
David: Yeah.
Seth: "I'm be- we're being very plain."
David: Yeah, and I think here, with verse 11, he i- and we're getting into the, the unequally yoked section here, I think he's starting to turn the table a little bit, um, to talk about his... the last letter that he wrote.
Seth: Okay.
David: The, the painful, grievous letter, 'cause that's where he's gonna get in chapter 7, after the unequally yoked conversation.
Seth: Okay.
David: So he's, he's... I think here he's saying, he's like, "Look, the reason why I wrote this grievous letter to you is because I didn't wanna hide anything from you. I, I-"
Seth: Yeah, yeah.
David: "We spoke freely to you."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: "We weren't hiding. We weren't trying to puff you up. We weren't playing some kind of politics game. You were in sin, and I called you out on it. But can I tell you something? Don't listen to what the super apostles are saying. The super apostles are saying that I wrote this letter to you that was grievous and hard, and that means I hate you now."
Seth: Mm.
David: And it, and I, I resonate so much with that-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that idea.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Because when I feel rebuked or challenged, it's eas-
Seth: It's like-
David: ... you know, by God or a fr- a friend-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... it's easy for me to be like, "They hate me."
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, [chuckles] they-
Seth: That's right
David: ... they don't like me anymore.
Seth: We can't come back from this.
David: Yeah, we're never gonna come back from this. And it's like, that's... Paul's like, "No, no, no. Can I tell you the reason why I spoke plainly and freely to you? It's because my heart is wide open to you."
Seth: Mm.
David: "Uh, you are not restricted by us," this is verse 12, "but you are restricted in your own affections." So he's like-
Seth: Mm
David: ..."Our affections toward you, our love for you, our heart for you, is wide open-
Seth: Right
David: ... and spilling over."
Seth: "We've never- we've done nothing but love you, and we still love you. Even when it's hard-
David: Yes
Seth: ... we've always loved you."
David: "We love you so much. Our hearts are wide open to you. The reason why there's a fracture in the relationship is 'cause you've actually closed off your heart toward us."
Seth: Okay.
David: "Even while we're out here suffering for you, you've stopped loving us."
Seth: Yeah.
David: And in, in fact, he'll talk about how his love for them is evidenced in how he keeps suffering for them.
Seth: Mm.
David: He's like, "We're out here suffering for you. The reason why we're being beaten-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and imprisoned and all this stuff-
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... is 'cause we're trying to get Jesus to you."
Seth: Is that what, is that what "our hearts are wide" means?
David: Yeah, yeah.
Seth: Is that like a metaphor for loving somebody?
David: That's, that's where we came down on it-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... 'cause their affections are closed off.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And, and, and, uh, what's it? It's the, it's... There's a restriction.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So you can kind of think of it like a river.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And they've closed off the river, restricted it, and so the stream of affection is dammed up in the middle.
Seth: Yeah.
David: But the Corinthians put the dam there-
Seth: Mm
David: ... not Paul.
Seth: I've never... I've just... I mean, I've read this verse before, but-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... I never thought about, like, a heart being wide as, like, as... It's just a metaphor for love or affections, and that... I like that.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That's, that's sweet.
David: 'Cause he's gonna talk later, um, in 7:2, about... He's gonna bring this, this language up again, and he's going- he's gonna say, "So make room in your hearts for us."
Seth: Mm-hmm, yeah.
David: "We've wronged no one. We've not wronged you," and he gonna-
Seth: Mm
David: ... he's gonna go and talk about the grievous letter. He's trying to restore the Corinthians' love for Paul and his fellow teachers, because Paul's not stopped loving them.
Seth: So, so, okay, "Our hearts are wide to you. You're the ones closing your hearts off to us." So verse 13, "In return, I'm speaking to you as a dear child, widen your hearts also."
David: Yeah.
Seth: And then we get to the command, "Do not be unequally yoked-
David: Yes
Seth: ... uh, with unbelievers."
David: Yes.
Seth: So the idea, if I'm just like, based off those two things, it's like their affections for Paul are being closed off because of these unbelievers. Paul says, "The reason why your guys' affections are closed to us, and there's a lack of love in the relationship, is because you've entertained whatever these unbelievers are ta- telling you."
David: Yeah, the-
Seth: The-
David: Yeah, the unbelievers, the false teachers-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... the, the super apostles, are turning the hearts of the Corinthians away from Paul, who planted their church-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and wants the best for them, even at the cost of grievous letters, and towards them as-
Seth: Mm
David: ... their new leaders and their new, uh, founders.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And so you can kind of think of it like those furrows again.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, they're- they've been walking toward Paul as he walks toward Jesus.
Seth: Yes.
David: But now another person has come under the yoke with them, and they're turning the furrow away from Paul-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... away from Jesus, and toward a different gospel, toward a different destination.
Seth: Interesting.
David: And so that's the idea here, is like, "Hey, guys, we were walking together. We were-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... plowing the field together, and now we, y- you guys are turning-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... away from me."
Seth: Maybe let me ask a more basic question. What does it mean to be yoked to somebody?
David: Yeah.
Seth: Because I think, it's like, okay, I get the argument Paul's making. Paul is making an appeal to the Corinthians, "Hey, accept us as your f- your loving fathers in the faith, and let's continue this relationship in advance of my, my coming. Don't listen to the voice of these people boasting about their accomplishments." Like-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... uh, like, I... Okay, I get that.
David: Yes.
Seth: And don't be unequally yoked with unbelievers, on the broadest sense, means, "Hey, don't listen to these folks who aren't following Jesus and whose lives don't look like Jesus."
David: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth: But is there anything more on the line-
David: Yeah, there's-
Seth: ... with the word "yoked"?
David: There's a lot he's pulling on here, I think.
Seth: Okay, yeah.
David: So, uh, let's, let's kind of go backwards and move forward through history.
Seth: Can, can I say that question?
David: How this is, how this is used.
Seth: Yes-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... because can I say that one more-
David: Yeah, yeah. Ask it another way
Seth: ... one more way? It's like I, I'm thinking, it's like, okay, it seems like, in my experience with that word, yoked-... it means something significant. It's like, "Don't get married." Like, there's a covenantal thing happening.
David: Sure.
Seth: Or I think about Jesus when he says, like, "My yoke-
David: That's right
Seth: ... is easy and my-"
David: Yes.
Seth: So in my mind, it's like this word yoke almost introduces a new idea to Paul's flow of thought.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Where it's not just like, "Hey, don't listen to bad influences."
David: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth: It's like even Jesus uses this language-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... to describe a relationship with him. So I'm like, is Paul adding something with this word-
David: Good
Seth: ... that I'm not, like, like, biblical?
David: There-
Seth: Anyways, so this-
David: No, he- it's very biblical.
Seth: Okay.
David: And it's very Jewish [chuckles]-
Seth: Okay
David: ... in a sense. And-
Seth: I mean, the whole Bible is-
David: Is Jewish
Seth: [chuckles] mostly.
David: And, and so what I'm saying is, it's not new. It's, it's so appropriate-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... what he's about to say. Um, and, and, and if, if you're feeling like the word yoke just calls out, like, "Whoa, I gotta pay attention to this. This feels intense," it is.
Seth: Okay.
David: And we're gonna see why.
Seth: Okay.
David: So this, this kind of idea, I think, starts all the way back in Deuteronomy, in the Torah, because you have this law in the Torah, which Paul always does.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Right? He'll pull on an Old Testament-
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... law. You know, like, whenever he, wherever he's talking about the right of an apostle to be paid for his labors in the church.
Seth: Yeah, he goes back to s-
David: He says, "Don't..." Yeah, he quotes the, "Don't muzzle an ox-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... while it treads out the grain."
Seth: I think Deuteronomy 7?
David: But-
Seth: I don't remember.
David: But he always does this.
Seth: I don't... Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: He grabs these little one-liners-
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... out of, out of the Torah, that he spent so much time-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... meditating on as a Pharisee and thinking about, what is the-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... the, what are the deep implications and godly principles behind this law?
Seth: That's right.
David: He, he's thought about these things.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so he's done that again with another one.
Seth: Okay.
David: And so it's in Deuteronomy 22:10.
Seth: Deuteronomy 22:10.
David: And it says, "Do not plow with an ox and a donkey yoked together."
Seth: Okay.
David: So th- and this... So what's fascinating is, that is also not a little standalone phrase there.
Seth: Okay.
David: Uh, there's a lot of other pieces happening here as well. So, uh, can you... Let's see. You wanna read, like, uh, the verses right around that? Are you there?
Seth: Uh, yeah, remind me the, the verse right before this.
David: 22:10.
Seth: Okay.
David: So-
Seth: Starting in verse 8
David: ... let's kind of go back to 9.
Seth: 9, okay. "You shall not sow your vineyard with two kinds of seed, lest the whole yield be forfeited, the crop that you have sown and the yield of the vineyard. You shall not plow with an ox and a donkey together. You shall not wear cloth of wool and linen mixed together."
David: So there you go. So you can see there's a theme in these three verses. They're all talking about-
Seth: Whole
David: ... blending things.
Seth: Blending things.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And keeping things whole.
David: That's right.
Seth: Okay.
David: Yeah, so you, you, like, if you're gonna plant a field, don't do it with two different seeds.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: If you're going to make a garment, don't use two different kinds of cloth or fabric, and if you're going to plow a field, don't use two different animals.
Seth: Okay.
David: And so there's a theme here of this blending, and what the Torah is doing in this time is using the laws of Israel to distinguish them from the nations, and-
Seth: Okay. Yeah
David: ... like, you know, they have a different diet. Why? Because the, oh, the unclean nations eat the unclean foods. The clean nation eats the clean food.
Seth: Okay.
David: And, and in this way, he's saying, "Let's wear whole, one type of fabric clothing-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... to show that you guys are unmixed, whole, pure, clean people."
Seth: Okay.
David: And so what these three are talking about is God's desire for Israel to be set apart from the nations.
Seth: Okay.
David: He doesn't want Israel to mix their practice, their worship-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... their laws with that of the idolatrous, pagan, evil nations.
Seth: Yeah. I've, I've been memorizing Leviticus, Leviticus 19:2. Like, it's a kind of a summary of the whole Torah, which, where God tells Moses to tell the whole people of Israel that they should be holy-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... or set apart, as He is holy. So there's, like, something, like, the whole law is going towards the end of Israel looking different and being God's set apart and distinguished people.
David: I love that you're-
Seth: Oh, 100%.
David: Okay, right. Oh, yeah. L- Paul's literally about to quote Leviticus.
Seth: Oh, my gosh. [chuckles]
David: Yeah, like he's-
Seth: I'm on the right track!
David: You are on the Paul train. [chuckles]
Seth: I'm on the right track. [chuckles]
David: You are... This is how we know we're thinking about a text the right way is like, this makes me think of that. Oh, it made Paul think of that, too.
Seth: Hilarious. Okay.
David: And so, yes, this holiness.
Seth: Yeah.
David: That, so that's the idea, and that's actually the con- the category he's setting up is cleanliness, purity, holiness. He's wanting to set up Levitical categories here to say-
Seth: You are a people that are supposed to be set apart for God's purposes in the world.
David: Yes, that is 1,000% what he's talking about.
Seth: And even the clothes that you wear and the way that you pl- in Israel-
David: Yes
Seth: ... with the clothes that you wear and the, the f- the way that you s- plow your fields and sow your fields should represent-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... this set apartness.
David: Right.
Seth: There's nothing, like, magical-
David: That's right
Seth: ... about having two different kinds of seed.
David: Yeah.
Seth: It's like your, the way that you're farming is communicating that you are God's special people.
David: That's right.
Seth: The way that you plow communicates that you're God's special people.
David: Yes.
Seth: Okay, g-
David: So that is... That's one thing to put on the table-
Seth: Okay
David: ... that he's pulling on, and then we'll, we'll tie this all together.
Seth: Yes.
David: But f- before we land plane-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... let's kind of put what does... Because the question is, why yoke?
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: Why is he using the word yoke?
Seth: Okay.
David: The next thing is, rabbis' teachings became known as their yoke-
Seth: Oh
David: ... throughout Jewish tradition.
Seth: Okay.
David: And so the yoke of a rabbi w- was you came under his teaching.
Seth: Okay.
David: And so if you took on the yoke of this, that, this rabbi or that rabbi, that meant you were his disciple.
Seth: Okay.
David: And he could turn you with his teaching any way he wanted-
Seth: Is-
David: ... because you were submitting to him like an animal submits to the farmer.
Seth: Is this why when Isaiah starts critiquing Israel's leadership during, like, the last years of-
David: Mm
Seth: ... his reign, he, like, comes in with a yoke on? Do you remember this?
David: I do! Oh, Jeremiah.
Seth: Oh, it's Jeremiah, not G- Isaiah.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Jeremiah. Jeremiah comes in with this yoke on, and he, like, breaks it on the ground, and he says-
David: ... the, these teachers that you're listening to will cause your destruction.
Seth: Probably.
David: And so-
Seth: I've not put that together, but yeah-
David: And, and then he like-
Seth: I think so. Absolutely
David: ... he like, he comes with an iron yoke later-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and that this is like, this is a symbol of the oppression, the teach- this is the consequence of the teaching you're under.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So-
Seth: Totally.
David: Anyway.
Seth: Yes.
David: Okay, interesting.
Seth: Yeah. People put yokes on people.
David: And then-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that's why Jesus talks about yokes, too.
Seth: My yoke, my teaching.
David: So he's their rabbi.
Seth: Fascinating.
David: Right? He came-
Seth: Okay
David: ... as their teacher. That's what they call him. He's the teacher. He's their itinerant rabbi, who was there. He brought disciples. He followed the traditional path of a rabbi.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Uh, that's why he went around saying, "Hey, come follow me," and they knew what that meant.
Seth: Yes.
David: It meant, "Oh, I've been picked by the rabbi." Like, "I can now-
Seth: That's right
David: ... give up-
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... this and go follow him."
Seth: Yeah.
David: That's amazing. Although he didn't pick the people he was supposed to pick.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: He was supposed to pick, like, the top Torah scholars in the local synagogue.
Seth: Like as you do.
David: But he went... Yeah, but he went and picked the fishermen, who couldn't even read and stuff [chuckles] so, like, that's... He, he was doing something different. But he was a rabbi, and his disciples followed him around, and he taught them. And his yoke, his teaching, he says in Matthew 11, is light, right?
Seth: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's right.
David: Whereas the, the teachings of other rabbis take the weight of the Torah and the weight-
Seth: Okay
David: ... of the, the Old Testament, that-
Seth: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
David: ... as we would call it, the Hebrew Scriptures, and put it on people in a more heavy way. And so Jesus is contrasting himself as a rabbi-
Seth: Interesting
David: ... with other teachers.
Seth: So what I just heard there was, okay, Paul is referencing, uh, a yoke here in Deuteronomy. Like, you're not supposed to plow your field with two different types of animals.
David: Yoke them together, yeah.
Seth: As a symbol of the holiness and set-apartness and special relationship Israel has with God.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: But within Israel itself, there was an understanding that yoke doesn't just... isn't really just, doesn't only reference-
David: Agriculture
Seth: ... agricultural technology.
David: Yeah.
Seth: It also references, like, teaching.
David: Yes.
Seth: And so this is w- this is potentially why Jeremiah is coming in with yokes on his, on his shoulders, and this is why Jesus-
David: Yes
Seth: ... talks about his own yoke. And so, um, as soon as Paul uses the word yoke, he, uh, is triggering in his original audience's mind, not merely like an agricultural phenomenon, where two, like, donkeys are being saddled together-
David: That's right
Seth: ... and veering off.
David: Yep.
Seth: He's also triggering, like, we should be thinking about teaching.
David: Yep.
Seth: So don't... So just to, like, put it really plainly, it's like, don't listen to the teachings of unbelievers-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... would be, like, a very literal tran-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... way to think about what-
David: That's right
Seth: ... he might be saying.
David: And, and then, and but without, without forgetting what's on the line-
Seth: Okay
David: ... with the word yoke, right?
Seth: Right.
David: Don't listen to the... Don't follow-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... y- or don't follow the teachings of a believer, me, and unbelievers, the super apostles.
Seth: Oh, don't put them together.
David: Don't put them together.
Seth: Don't put them together.
David: Yeah, like-
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... you can't serve two masters, that kind of thing.
Seth: That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: But why? Well, 'cause I'm trying to lead you to purity, wholeness, set-apartness-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... cleanliness. They are not. [chuckles] And that's why, that's why the distinctions continue in 2 Corinthians. So he says, "Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness?" So he's gonna start comparing his ministry with their ministry.
Seth: It's like, why would you... You wouldn't put a righteous per- like, righteousness and lawlessness shouldn't be partners-
David: Yeah, they're not-
Seth: ... is what I'm saying
David: ... they're not part... They don't lead to the same destination.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: Right? They don't lead to purity.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: Uh, one does, the other doesn't. So, uh, and he's, "Or what fellowship has light with darkness?"
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: One is leading to light, one is leading to darkness.
Seth: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
David: With what... And then he, I think he ratchets it up here. He goes, "What accord has Christ with Belial?" Like, a pagan god.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: He's like, "At the, at the end, the destination of me and these super apostles are as different as dark and light.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: I am leading to light, they are leading to dark. I am leading to Christ, they are leading to Belial."
Seth: Okay.
David: So it's just really intense.
Seth: Yeah, yeah. No, super intense. Yeah, he's... Yeah, okay. Yeah.
David: And so, and so he then, "And what agreement has the temple of God with idols?" So now he's starting to bring in, like you pointed out-
Seth: Mm, mm-hmm
David: ... these Levitical categories.
Seth: Mm, mm-hmm.
David: The temple of God is the holy, set-apart, pure, clean place.
Seth: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
David: And idols don't go in there, because-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... when they do, what happens? We know from Israel's history.
Seth: The nation gets destroyed.
David: The nation gets destroyed.
Seth: That's right.
David: The iron yoke is put on it. [chuckles]
Seth: Yes, that's right. That's right.
David: Yeah, and so that's then what prompts him to start quoting Leviticus and start quoting-
Seth: Uh-huh
David: ... these ideas-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... about temple cleanliness.
Seth: "What agreement has the temple of God with idols? And we are the temple of the living God." The church-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... in Corinth is the temple of the living God, and then he goes on to Leviticus.
David: So that's a big step he takes there, right?
Seth: Yeah, yeah.
David: Where he goes, "And we are the temple of the living God."
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, a huge step he makes there.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So he's saying, "You guys are following these false teachers who are leading you to darkness and n-," well, it wasn't unrighteousness, "lawlessness-
Seth: Uh-huh
David: ... uh, and Belial,
David: and what's on the line for you? You are giving up being the righteous, light-filled, pure abode of God." [chuckles]
Seth: Yeah, that's-
David: "That's where I'm leading you."
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: "Why would you, why would you co-mingle-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... these two teachers-
Seth: Right
David: ... these two ways? Because I'm trying to lead you into wholeness, which is oneness with God."
Seth: Yes. Okay.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: So-
Seth: I, I get it.
David: Okay.
Seth: So he starts-
David: So-
Seth: ... talking about the temple.
David: Yeah, so t- talk me through the Leviticus quotation.
Seth: Yeah, so he says, uh, quote, "'I will make my dwelling among them,' God said, 'and walk among them-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.'"
David: This is going back to, like, what is the temple? He's like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... what is the definition of the temple? Is, like, God living among his people.
Seth: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, and beyond that, it goes back, like you said... And when I hear yoke-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... it makes me think, like, covenant.
David: Yeah, yeah.
Seth: This is, this is the covenant of God-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and his people.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Like, in a sense, Israel yoked themselves to God.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And so that's their original pairing-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... is God and man, right, working together to bring life and creation, fruitfulness, to plow the world-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... with God.
David: ... and he's like, "So I'm gonna be your God, you will be my people." That was the covenant-
Seth: Yes
David: ... between God and Israel. So that is what's on the line, is he's saying, "Don't yoke with anything else-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... with Belial or whatever-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... because your original covenant is with me." And so, I mean, that's just- he's ratcheting up all the categories.
Seth: Yeah.
David: He's saying, "To let the false teachers continue in your church-
Seth: Would be
David: ... is like breaking covenant with God."
Seth: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
David: Which is a really intense thing to say.
Seth: Or it would be a, a, a repetition of Israel's history. Like, you'd be-
David: That's right
Seth: ... repeating the sins of our forefathers-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and foremothers in the faith.
David: Yep.
Seth: You'd be, you'd be welcoming the same destruction Israel experienced in exile.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Which is what he then kind of warns them of. Uh, so he says, "Therefore, go out from their midst and be separate from them," says the Lord, "and touch no unclean thing." And then I, I will get into the next part.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So what's he, what's he saying here? He's saying, "Cast out-"
Seth: Uh-huh
David: ... "what is impure, what is unholy, what is foreign-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... what is evil, what is unrighteous."
Seth: Yeah.
David: "Get rid of it."
Seth: Yeah, separate yourself.
David: Separate yourself.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Be holy.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And this, and like you said, this is the Levitical kind of part-
Seth: Mm, mm-hmm
David: ... where God is starting to create this space in the midst of Israel-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... on Earth, where Heaven can overlap with Earth, and God can dwell with man in a clean, pure space.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And in order for God to dwell there, it needs to be cleaned up, 'cause it's dirty right now.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And so God's like, "Let's get rid of everything that defiles, all the things that are just-
Seth: Okay
David: ... ugly and uncreation-y and death-y and-
Seth: Mm
David: ... all this stuff that's anti-
Seth: Yes
David: ... Eden, anti-Me. Let's get rid of it, so I can set up Eden among you."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And so he's telling them to do the same thing in Corinth, making Corinth, like, the new-
Seth: The new camp
David: ... camp of Israel-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... the new tabernacle of God.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And saying, "Clean it up, and God is gonna just-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... fill it."
Seth: Yeah. Or it's like, maybe, it's like God-
David: Is filling it
Seth: ... is filling it.
David: Yes.
Seth: God is present-
David: That's right
Seth: ... and you're introducing things-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... that will destroy it.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So-
David: And we know from some crazy stories in Leviticus and Numbers-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... what happens when you start defiling-
Seth: So get it out
David: ... the temple of my, the temple of God. Yeah.
Seth: Cleanse it.
David: Yeah, so cleanse it.
Seth: Okay.
David: 'Cause, 'cause He says, "Then I will welcome you."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Which again, I love this, that He is, like, Paul's saying, "Our hearts are open to you."
Seth: Mm.
David: "You've- you're the ones who've dammed up the river." God is the same way, "I'm ready to welcome you. You're just, like, putting all this stuff-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... in our way."
Seth: Yeah.
David: "I wanna just rush in and fill everything and be among you." So God's not holding back. You know, Paul is, like, the representative of-
Seth: That's right
David: ... Jesus' heart for Corinth.
Seth: Yeah.
David: He's like, "Just because you keep sinning and keep rejecting-
Seth: Mm, mm-hmm
David: ... and keep falling away, doesn't mean I've stopped loving you, and doesn't mean I wanna rush in."
Seth: Yeah.
David: He's like, "Jesus is the same way. God's the same way. He's ready to welcome you, to, to run into your camp."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: "Just clean it up." Um, and he says, "I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons, uh, and daughters to me," says the Lord-
Seth: Mm
David: ... Almighty. So-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... he, he goes from this yoking language-
Seth: Mm, mm-hmm
David: ... of pairing up with false teachers. You know, who are you gonna listen to?
Seth: Yeah.
David: To, uh, it's leading to Christ language.
Seth: Yes.
David: Okay, who are you going to, Christ or Belial?
Seth: Yes.
David: To, this is making you the temple of the living God or not.
Seth: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
David: And then, and now he's... It's a family category. He's saying, "I'm gonna be-
Seth: Your father
David: ... a father."
Seth: Yeah.
David: "You guys are brothers and sisters." And so he brings in this family category as well, which is, is fascinating, giving, given the background of, like, how Romans and, and Greeks viewed the paterfamilia.
Seth: Say more about that.
David: So-
Seth: Like, why, why is it fascinating again?
David: Yeah. Well, I mean, y- right now you've got this argument on the line of who's the rightful leader of the church in Corinth.
Seth: Yeah.
David: In the Roman culture, the father was this strong-handed-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... boss of the house, who always had it together and never wanted to do anything to bring shame on his home.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And you've got Paul be- saying, like, he says later, like, he's the father of this church.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And he is not strong. [chuckles] He is not the-
Seth: Right, right, right
David: ... the Roman pater.
Seth: He doesn't, he doesn't, like, fit the Roman stereotype of a-
David: No, he does not
Seth: ... of the paterfamilias.
David: And yet he is saying he's the one who's bringing them to their ultimate father, God. God is the paterfamilia, like, the, the, the head of the household-
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... of Corinth, and so they need to operate their household not according to the, the traditions and ways and expectations of their culture-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... but in the ways and expectations and culture of God. And he's saying, "I'm the father of the house. Clean up the house, 'cause it's my temple."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And so he's just stacking all this language to heighten what really is-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... what seems like
David: a, a simple disagreement betwe- between two teachers in a church.
Seth: Fascinating.
David: You know what I mean?
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: Like, there's so much he packs into one.
Seth: That's amazing.
David: So I, I... So I think all of this to say, just what is this passage about, about being-
Seth: Right
David: ... unequally yoked? It's not about marriage.
Seth: No, it's not. But I understand why you could easily make the application to marriage-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... right? It's like the... What is Paul talking about on, on, like, what's he ad- what's the situation he's addressing?
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: False teachers coming into the church of Corinth.
David: Yeah.
Seth: But the way that he talks about it, it like say, "Hey, this is actually a story that spans the whole of Scripture."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: "God is creating for Himself a holy and set-apart people where He will dwell in."
David: Yeah.
Seth: And the temptation will always be to listen to voices other than God.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And when you invite those voices in, it will often lead you down the wrong path. And frequently, how did that happen in Israel's history? Was through marriage. It's like intermarriage with pa-
David: That's right
Seth: ... with pagan, um, wives and husbands-
David: Yep
Seth: ... and that leads Israel to worship other gods.
David: That's so true.
Seth: So it's like, it's not an illegitimate, uh-
David: Application
Seth: ... application of this text.
David: Yeah.
Seth: But it probab- I've just never heard us do the work to get to that application.
David: Yeah, it would [chuckles]...
Seth: I've heard the application-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... without the work to get us there.
David: So what we're saying is 2 Corinthians 6, uh, 14 is and is not about marriage. [chuckles]... Done! [laughs]
Seth: Done. We figured it out.
David: Cut the podcast. [laughs]
Seth: We figured it out.
David: [laughs] Yeah, it's true, though, but it, the situation-
Seth: That's right
David: ... that he's addressing-
Seth: That's right
David: ... he's not talking about marriage.
Seth: That's right.
David: But there is an application for it.
Seth: Interesting.
David: You, you started talking about, um, the history, like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... this is the history of, of Israel, and I don't know if you meant to, but I was like, "Oh, you just retold the story of Eden."
Seth: Okay.
David: Right?
Seth: Okay.
David: 'Cause like, God and man-
Seth: That's right, that's right
David: ... coming in together-
Seth: That's right, yes
David: ... even in a marriage relationship, and they were given the yoke of God's teaching.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: "Eat of everything in the garden. It's all yours."
Seth: Yes.
David: "But show that you are under my teaching by refraining from defining good and evil for yourself over at the knowledge of, of the Tree of Good and Evil."
Seth: Different teaching.
David: And what do they do?
Seth: Mm.
David: They yoked up and listened to another teaching. "Did God really say this? Oh, you won't really die. In fact, you'll be like God." And what did it do? It veered them off to-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... another path and led to idolatry, death, destruction, uncreation, darkness-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... Belial, all these things.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And they left, what? The temple of the living God in Eden.
Seth: Yeah, and-
David: So he's like, "This is how you get back to Eden: stop yoking up with the serpent-"
Seth: Yeah
David: ... which is crazy. Sorry, he's crazy.
Seth: He does it later.
David: He does it later.
Seth: He does it later.
David: He's gonna call them the serpent later.
Seth: I, I'm pointing at it right now.
David: Okay, yeah, we wanna make the same point.
Seth: Uh, yeah, uh, 2 Corinthians 11:3-
David: Yes
Seth: ... "But I'm afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ."
David: Yes.
Seth: "And if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or you receive a different spirit, it's a different gospel."
David: Yeah.
Seth: So he's talking about teaching.
David: Yeah.
Seth: He's comparing the teaching of the serpent to the teaching of the false apostles-
David: Mm
Seth: ... more explicitly in chapter 11, but he's doing it.
David: Yeah.
Seth: He's preparing us for that moment-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... all the way back here.
David: I think there's something really important to talk about right here, because I think that the way we apply this-
Seth: Uh-huh
David: ... heat from Paul-
Seth: Yes
David: ... can lead us to really, really good things and really, really harmful things.
Seth: Okay.
David: Because I think the zeal that Paul has against false teachers, and being led to a different gospel, and being s- you know, drawn away by the serpent, has been used to cover basically every disagreement in the ch- in the Christian church.
Seth: Yeah, every- [laughs]
David: You know what I mean?
Seth: Everybody's Satan that disagrees with me.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Yeah. [laughs]
David: Yeah, and, and, and everybody who disagrees with my view of the Bible or this doctrine or this issue, uh, is preaching the wrong gospel-
Seth: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
David: ... and is ultimately Satan, and is leading me astray to death and Belial-
Seth: That's right
David: ... and darkness.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And it's like, hold on. Let's remember what Paul is actually talking about here.
Seth: Mm.
David: Because there's a lot of other divisions and disagreements and things he's talking about in the church. The focus of what Paul is talking about here, of the, the heart of the false teaching, is the suffering, death, and resurrection of Jesus, that it's-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... through death and suffering and weakness and surrender to God-
Seth: Mm, mm
David: ... that we find life and resurrection and victory and flourishing.
Seth: Yeah.
David: That's what the false teachers are pressing against, and that's the false gospel he's talking about, is anything-
Seth: The denial of Jesus
David: ... the denial of Jesus's death and resurrection.
Seth: Yeah, yeah.
David: That's what's on the line here.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Not a worship style or when you got baptized or whatever. Like, that's not what's on the line for Paul here.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And so I just think we need to be careful about bringing his heat-
Seth: Yeah, we don't wanna-
David: ... into every debate.
Seth: Yeah. That's right.
David: So-
Seth: That's a good one
David: ... any other thoughts on that?
Seth: No, I mean, I think that's a good word of warning.
David: Okay.
Seth: It's like, we, we don't bring out the nukes for, uh, uh, [laughs] for, for a fistfight.
David: For a water gun fight. [laughs]
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs]
David: Right? [laughs]
Seth: Yeah.
David: That's so true.
Seth: [laughs]
David: Christine's just, like, dying in the corner. [laughs]
Seth: [laughs] I love it.
David: Uh, yeah, so I, I was just... I was like, "I think that has to be said." Um, any other, like, gospel reflections? My favorite... I'll, I'll share my favorite.
Seth: Yes, go.
David: I've said it once, but I'll gush for a second. My favorite gospel reflection from studying this passage has been, you know, you've got Paul, he just wrote this harsh letter. He, he's corrected the Corinthians, and you have these Satan-like figures that have twisted that correction into closed hearts.
Seth: Mm.
David: "Oh, Paul hates me now because he corrected me."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And as I look at-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... th- like, how I've had that relationship with God, Satan has pulled that same trick on me, where I feel the rebuke of the Holy Spirit-
Seth: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
David: ... the, and which he's gonna talk about. There's godly grief that leads to repentance. That's a good thing, and I love that it even pained Paul to-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... cause them that. Um, but Satan twists that in me when I feel godly grief over a sin or something, where I just, I'm like, "Oh, I'm... I suck. I'm the worst Christian."
Seth: Yeah.
David: "I shouldn't be doing what I'm doing. I'll never get better." You know, all these things-
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... "God must hate me now."
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: "He's closed off his heart to me."
Seth: Yeah.
David: "His affections for me have quelled and dried up to a trickle."
Seth: Yeah.
David: And that's the voice of Satan, not the voice of God.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And I think Paul here embodies-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... Jesus's heart and God's heart for us when rebukes come against sin-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... for God's people.
Seth: Yeah.
David: He's saying, "Look, my heart is still wide open to you. You're the one who's put up the, the, the barrier. Open your heart to me, repent-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and it all just flows. And even causing you that grief actually caused me grief."
Seth: Mm, mm.
David: "That when I'm repenting and grieving over a sin, Jesus isn't standing over me going like, 'Yeah, that's right. You better suffer. You better feel-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... bad about this.' He's like, 'I know, my son. That hurts me-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... too. I know the grief. Like, it pained me to bring this up to you, but I'm so glad it's gonna lead you closer to me.'"
Seth: Yeah.
David: Anyway, like, that sweetness-
Seth: That's good
David: ... was just so, like, like, healing for me.
Seth: What I heard you narrate there, too, was, like, often the voice of the serpent is in our own heads.
David: Yeah.
Seth: It's not just, like, super-
David: Another false teacher
Seth: ... a, a, a false teacher, but I've got this internal s- serpent-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... that is telling me f- t- false teachings. "God doesn't really love you."
David: Yeah.
Seth: "You must have done something beyond the pale." And I have a choice in that moment to yoke myself to that thought-
David: Yes
Seth: ... or to, like, accept the yoke of that thought-
David: That's so good
Seth: ... or not. And Paul would remind us, like, "No, you're the temple of the living God."
David: Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: Uh, the whole story of the Bible, in some way-... is somebody listening somewhere to the voice of the serpent-
David: That's right.
Seth: -whether it's Eve in the garden or you in your own head.
David: Yes.
Seth: Like, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a critical choice of bringing God's presence and life to the world, or death and destruction into either your own personal s- personal life or the church around you, and it's like you've gotta choose, even in those, like, internal battles-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... to, like, yoke yourself to what's true. What is it?
David: Uh.
Seth: "I will be a father to you."
David: Oh!
Seth: Uh, yeah. [chuckles]
David: What a beautiful and helpful, like, in the trenches-
Seth: Mm
David: ... moment mantra. [laughs]
Seth: [laughs] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: To, to be like, "Okay, I'm hearing that I'm worthless, and God hates me, and I'm never good enough. Hold on. That's a lie from a false teacher. That's the snake in my head. What could I yoke myself to instead?"
Seth: Yeah.
David: "You're the clean, beloved temple of God, who's the Son of-
Seth: Right
David: ... the King."
Seth: Yes.
David: "And I wanna make you pure through repentance, not condemned through shame."
Seth: Right, and what hap- what, what's the story of the Bible?
David: Yeah.
Seth: When Eve listened to the voice of the serpent, God made the promise, like, "Your son will crush the head of the serpent."
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, it's like, it's, it's the Gospel promise.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, w- like, [chuckles] when we're tempted to believe it, the serpent will be crushed, and we can... Uh, Jesus, Jesus died to do it.
David: Yeah.
Seth: You know, like... Yeah.
David: That's right. Oh, my gosh!
Seth: Uh.
David: Well, that's a great meditation. Okay, well, that's the yoke episode.
Seth: The yoke episode.
David: There we go. Um-
Seth: Scrambled?
David: Little scramble. What?
Seth: Scrambled yokes.
David: Oh, scrambled yokes. [laughing]
Seth: [laughing]
David: I did not get that.
Seth: Um, I think-
David: I prefer it-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... soft-boiled. I think next... I guess we'll just go in order. Next, uh, we're gonna look at chapters 8 and 9 and all the generosity stuff because Paul is gonna do this interesting thing, where-
Seth: Okay
David: ... he talks about money-
Seth: Yes
David: ... for a long time, but kinda talks about how money, uh, his goal is not to raise money but to change the Corinthians.
Seth: Okay.
David: And so I think that's fun, and then after that, on the third episode, we'll talk about the thorn in the flesh, the third heaven, the messengers of Satan, all the things that people wanna hear about, I'm sure.
Seth: I love it.
David: So, okay.
Seth: I love it.
David: Well, thank you, guys, for joining us, and we will see you next time. [upbeat music]
[Outro]
Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel creates short films, devotionals, and podcasts like this one. Everything we make is free because of generous supporters like you. To see our resources, visit spokengospel.com or subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. See you next time. [upbeat music]