Intro: [upbeat music] Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a ministry that's dedicated to speaking the gospel out of every corner of scripture. In Luke 24, Jesus told his disciples that every part of the Bible was about him. So each week, hosts David and Seth work through a passage of scripture to see how it's all about Jesus and his good news. Let's jump in.
David: [upbeat music] Well, welcome everyone to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. We are diving into 2 Peter 1 today.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Seth, how are you?
Seth: I'm excited to read the dying words of Peter, the-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... first, the- the- the rock of the church.
David: The rock, yeah.
Seth: But-
David: So we, like, we- we set this up on the introduction podcast that we did-
Seth: Mm
David: ... a few weeks ago, and we talked about how this is, like, his deathbed letter.
Seth: That's right.
David: Yeah, which is really, a really interesting way to think about this l- this letter. I've never, I've never, like, read a- a thing in the Bible and been like, "This is the last thing he wrote,"-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... you know?
Seth: Right.
David: Uh, it's-
Seth: I mean, that's what... I mean, Peter says it in verse 12, "Therefore, I intend always to remind you of these qualities," which we'll talk about. Um, "I think it is right, as long as I am in this body, to stir you up by way of reminder, since I know the putting off of my body will be soon, as our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me."
David: Yeah, so apparently, like, Jesus appeared to him and told him he was gonna die?
Seth: Well-
David: Or what?
Seth: Yeah, in, uh, at the end of the Book of John-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... when he appears to- to the disciples.
David: Yep.
Seth: And he comes to Peter and John, and he basically tells them that he's gonna die.
David: Mm.
Seth: Do you re- do you remember that?
David: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth: In John's gospel.
David: Definitely, yeah.
Seth: So yeah, he's talking about when Jesus resurrected and appeared to him, and then-
David: He's like, "I didn't mean that-"
Seth: Immediately, but-
David: Immediately that, yeah
Seth: ... "But you are going to die soon"-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... "at s- at some point."
David: Mm-hmm. And so, uh, I mean, what is it, like, ooh, d- what do we need to have in our heads as we approach this letter, um, especially this, like, first 15 verses before he goes on a tirade against the false teachers-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... which we'll probably talk about next week. But, like, what do we need to have in our heads here that, like, to set the right categories for everything that he's about to say?
Seth: Well, I think this, the idea, the last words of John is a helpful category.
David: Peter.
Seth: This, or... John. [laughs]
David: What? [laughs]
Seth: Peter. [laughs]
David: It's my favorite idiosyncrasy of you.
Seth: It's, like, I'm just getting names mixed up in my head.
David: [laughs]
Seth: I do it with my kids all the time. Um, uh, the last words of Peter.
David: Yeah.
Seth: I think that's, uh, a helpful category. This is Peter's magnum opus.
David: Mm.
Seth: He has spent a life with Jesus, prophesy, his death was prophesied by Jesus. He sees it coming in the future, and he's looking back on all his ministry, his time as an elder of the-
David: Mm
Seth: ... Jerusalem church, his time with Jesus, and saying, "I know I'm about to die. I have something to tell you guys first."
David: Yeah.
Seth: I think that's just a helpful thing to have in the back of your mind.
David: Yeah.
Seth: I also think it's helpful when you come into 2 Pet- this first part of 2 Peter, at least, to remember he's speaking to a Greek audience.
David: Okay.
Seth: Because he uses words to describe Christian's i- Christian ideas that are kind of atypical.
David: Okay, like what?
Seth: He doesn't use the word, uh, righteousness. He uses the word virtue. He-
David: Is that the word that's, like, translated goodness in my-
Seth: Uh, it might be goodness, yeah.
David: Okay.
Seth: Uh, "Supplement your faith with virtue"-
David: Yes
Seth: ... uh, "and virtue with knowledge," as your Bible says, goodness.
David: Yes.
Seth: Yeah, so goodness rather than righteousness.
David: Ah.
Seth: He's talk- instead of sin, he talks about corruption. Instead of being, like, included in God's family, he says we become partakers of the divine nature.
David: Mm.
Seth: So I think it's really interes- so as I was meditating on this passage, I just thought it was very interesting the words Peter decided to use when talking to the specific audience. So one thing that did for me was it kind of just made me think about what God has done for me and Jesus-
David: Mm
Seth: ... a little bit differently. But it was also helpful to realize that I can s- talk about biblical ideas with, like, atypical language-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and it actually be a good thing. So that's what I had in my mind as well.
David: No, that's good. I mean, even thinking about, like, having righteousness-
Seth: Mm
David: ... versus having virtue.
Seth: That's easier for me.
David: It's easier for me.
Seth: It's so much easier for me.
David: Yeah, I'm like, oh, like, do good.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, be a virtuous good person-
Seth: Yeah, is-
David: ... is different than be righteous.
Seth: One of the authors I was reading, he talked about moral progress.
David: Uh-huh.
Seth: I was like, that's a helpful way to talk about-
David: That's helpful
Seth: ... sanctification.
David: Right.
Seth: Or moral progress.
David: Right. [laughs]
Seth: That's helpful.
David: Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: I like that.
David: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth: That's, that's helpful to me. Uh, so I thought that was helpful for me as I-
David: Okay
Seth: ... went into this. And the other category, even though it's not the phrase he uses here in 2 Peter 1, is the category of righteousness.
David: Mm.
Seth: The idea of virtue or moral perfection or being free from corruption because I think this is the idea that Peter goes all in on, um, because he'll mention it here, but it's also some of the last words of the Book of 2 Peter.
David: Mm.
Seth: The final hope he offers to his church is, "But according to God's promises, we are waiting for a new heaven and a new Earth in which righteousness-"
David: Righteousness
Seth: ... "dwells." So I think Peter, as he's coming to the end of his life, is going all in and reflecting on how good and necessary righteousness is.
David: Mm.
Seth: Which sounds like a typical old man thing to be, like, about, like-
David: [laughs]
Seth: ... "These kids just aren't as good as the old kids." Like, you know? But-
David: When, when, when I was your age-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... we, we helped the old ladies across the street.
Seth: Right.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Which is funny. [laughs] I was like, that's kind of a funny way to say it, but he do- he goes all in for it.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So.
David: Well, and okay, so explore that with me for a little bit 'cause I'm looking at verse one here-
Seth: Mm
David: ... where he uses the word righteousness.
Seth: Yes.
David: And that is classic-
Seth: Yes
David: ... definitely righteousness the way, the b- the, the Bibleese righteousness word-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... 'cause it's dikaiosune-
Seth: Yep
David: ... which is the Greek word-
Seth: Yep
David: ... for righteousness. Classic Greek word.
Seth: He's not afraid to use-
David: No
Seth: ... the word righteousness.
David: And, but he, but he puts it in relationship-Like, he says, like s- anyway, let me just read it.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Uh, so s- Simon Peter, Simeon Peter, a servant of the Apostle, a, a servant and Apostle of Jesus Christ to, and now he's talking, this is you. I'm gonna describe you, my audience. To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours-
Seth: Meaning the Apostles
David: ... meaning the Apostles. Whoa, big statement.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Not only a Greek audience being the same as a, as, a, an Is- Israel au- audience-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... a Jewish audience, but also like, I'm an Apostle of Jesus, equal standing through faith. How? By-
Seth: Mm
David: ... the righteousness of our God and savior, Jesus Christ.
Seth: Yes.
David: So it's like, so the righteousness, the, that, that belongs to Jesus.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And that's what's given to us to make us have equal standing that we achieve through faith. Is that-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... it?
Seth: I think this is what he's going to ex- this is like his, his thesis statement.
David: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Seth: It's the most simple way to say it. Equal standing, uh, he's gonna talk about being partakers of the divine here in a second, with ours by the righteousness of our God and savior, Jesus Christ. I think that's his like thesis statement.
David: Yeah.
Seth: God and savior, Jesus saves us through His righteousness. Jesus Christ is our God, one of the clearest statements of the divinity of Jesus-
David: Right
Seth: ... in some of the, the, the letters. Um, I think that's his thesis statement.
David: Yep.
Seth: I think, I think you're right.
David: Okay. Okay. So-
Seth: So what do you want help with here?
David: Um, what does it mean to say, unless he, or he's about to unpack it-
Seth: Mm
David: ... which if so, then you can move me into verse three.
Seth: Yeah.
David: What does it mean to say that the righteousness of Jesus is given to us through faith?
Seth: Hmm.
David: Like, does it mean, like, his virtue? Like, I will do the things he did-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... is righ- so is that like an action? The-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... active-
Seth: All the good deeds of Jesus
David: ... all the good deeds of Jesus, I will now do, uh, or, or, and, or are we talking about status where it's like, man, that is a virtuous person-
Seth: Mm
David: ... or he has been declared righteous before a court of law?
Seth: Yeah.
David: Or, you know, like-
Seth: He's not guilty. He is righteous-
David: He is righteous
Seth: ... before God.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Uh-
Seth: I think the answer is yes.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um, we should just go to verse three.
David: Okay, great.
Seth: So he-
David: I just wanna have that, like, swimming in our heads while we're like-
Seth: Yeah, say what kind-
David: Okay, now unpack your thesis statement for me.
Seth: You know what? I think that's a good point because righteousness is one of those Christian words everybody uses, and then it can mean 10 different things. There are diff- it's like, what's on the table here? One, there's, like, a moral, a moral like, can I be a moral person? Is that what he's talking about?
David: Right.
Seth: Is it the status I have before God as being declared righteous-
David: Mm
Seth: ... declared innocent because Jesus has given me His righteousness, His goodness before Him, and the, uh, you said one more.
David: No, I think those were the two.
Seth: Those were, those, so-
David: Yeah, those are the two
Seth: ... which, which one of those two is it?
David: Yeah. And, and I think, and I think the other question I'm asking is like, why are we talking about righteousness here-
Seth: Uh-huh
David: ... to this audience facing these problems?
Seth: Uh, well, that's probably a good background question-
David: Okay
Seth: ... because one of the main things these false teachers are gonna start talking about is that we don't need to live the moral lifestyle taught by Jesus and the Apostles.
David: Right.
Seth: So-
David: We talked about this on-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... the introduction, yes.
Seth: Yeah, so they're gonna say that, like, you don't need to follow the moral commands of Jesus and the Apostles because why? God's judgment isn't coming.
David: Yeah.
Seth: We can live however we want, which, like, you don't need to be so morally rigorous with yourself.
David: Mm.
Seth: And so Peter's coming and saying, "Well, okay, hold on. We have been saved by a God defined by righteousness, defined by moral purity, de- defined by goodness, virtue."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: "And if that's true, we must live lives like that."
David: Okay.
Seth: Like, that, that's, uh, that's, that's the direction he's pushing right now.
David: Yeah. This is all starting to connect for me.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Okay. So, uh, you have this, you have these people living in a tumultuous cultural current that's trying to sweep them towards antinomianism, that's trying to push them towards lawlessness, push them towards-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... evil acting.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Because there's no coming judgment. Jesus isn't coming back.
Seth: Mm.
David: So live however you want.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And so, and they're, they're being pulled towards that.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And so Peter, in his dying breath, I'm dramatizing it-
Seth: Yeah, yeah
David: ... sends them a letter saying, "No."
Seth: Don't do it.
David: "Stick to your virtue."
Seth: Yeah.
David: "Be good people even when everyone tells you to be bad"-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... is the simplest way to put it.
Seth: Right, yes.
David: And I think, a- and, and the r- and the reason why, you've, you've said it, I just wanna repeat it, is, is not... And he's gonna say be- later because there is a coming day of judgment-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and he'll prove that. But here, he's not focusing on that. Here, he's saying because you're joined to Christ.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so that's-
Seth: The righteous God, yes.
David: Yeah, so that's what we're, what he goes into in verse three.
Seth: Mm-hmm, that's right.
David: Okay.
Seth: His divine power. What is it? Which, stop.
David: So-
Seth: Divine power. We're talking about a different way to talk about God here. God-
David: Oh, yeah
Seth: ... his divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So he's front-loading his whole letter with the necessity of godliness and the way that God leverages his divine power to give us the ability to be righteous-
David: Mm
Seth: ... to pursue moral progress, to be pure.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um-
David: Pious is another way that BDAG, a, a famous-
Seth: Oh
David: ... Greek lexicon translates-
Seth: Yes
David: ... that word for godliness, piety.
Seth: Just another helpful-
David: Piety
Seth: ... yeah, another good word.
David: Yep, okay. So every, like, so, like, God's, God's power is going to infuse you with everything you need to survive this current pulling you towards wickedness.
Seth: Yep.
David: Everything you need to live a, a, a pious life, a virtuous life is in the power of God that he is granting you.
Seth: Yes, and how do you get that power?
David: Through knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence.
Seth: So by faith.
David: Okay.
Seth: So you just said it. We have obtained a faith of equal standing, but with ours by the righteousness of our God and savior, Jesus Christ. He's unpacking what he just said, like, God is leveraging all of his div- vine power so that we can become godly, and the way that we become godly and gain God's power is by knowing, trusting, believing, having faith in the God who called us to his own glory and excellence.
David: Okay, so two, two, two things there.
Seth: Yeah.
David: One, y- you've quickly synonymized-
Seth: Uh-huh
David: ... uh, knowledge and faith.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Is that-What we should be doing here, is it just because... Is the proof that... Well, we're unpacking the thesis statement, that he just said.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And he's just saying it in a different way.
Seth: I think that's part of it.
David: Okay.
Seth: I also think throughout scripture, knowledge functions that way.
David: Mm.
Seth: Because the demons know that God has called a people to be his own. The demons know that Jesus can perform miracles. The ge- demons know that Jesus died and rose from the dead, but that doesn't save them.
David: Mm.
Seth: That doesn't bring them into a life of godliness. There's a differ- like, the Bible has more, uses the word knowledge to talk in different ways about-
David: So you're saying it, it, it, it, it cannot be just intellectual recognition.
Seth: No, it can't just be that.
David: Yeah, okay. Yeah. It's not like... So the, the, the more times you read Grudem Systematic Theology, the more you are, you are having divine power and pertaining to a life in godliness. [laughs]
Seth: Uh, no.
David: Okay.
Seth: No.
David: It might help. [laughs] But they're not a-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... a perfect coalition. Okay, I get that. And then, and it's, He's called us to His own glory and excellence.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: What's helpful here is I, I've... You know this.
Seth: Yeah.
David: I got stuck on these three verses.
Seth: You did get stuck on these three verses.
David: When we were studying it, and it's just really been beautiful to me. Um, but I just haven't quite made all these connections we just made.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And so now I'm like, oh, what does it mean to be called to His glory and excellence? He's saying, you can't go fall under the current of wickedness and be pulled towards evil and sin-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... uh, because you've been called to perfection.
Seth: Yeah.
David: You've been called to be like God. You've been called to be just like God's glory and God's excellence. How excellent is God? I mean, look at the fine-tuning of the universe.
Seth: Yeah.
David: That's the bar.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, that's what you've been called to, is that level of excellence. So don't get swept up in, like, all the sexual licentious lies of these-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... false teachers. You've been called to the excellent standard of the God who fine-tuned how far the Earth-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... is from the sun. [laughs]
Seth: And specifically the excellence of Jesus.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Our God and Savior, Jesus Christ. I think it's east- interesting, if we're talking about sensuality, which is a, a, a significant theme in 2 Peter, Jesus never got married.
David: Right.
Seth: He, like, you know, like, he lived this very, a virtuous life-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... on Earth, loving others, praying for others, like, gave his life for others. Like, you have in Jesus this glory and excellence of self-sacrificial death on the behalf of others, and that's what we're being called into, right?
David: Right. Yeah.
Seth: Right.
David: I- it's kind of like we talked about in the 1 Peter podcast, where it was like, um, we're living a counter-cultural lifestyle.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: That the way of Jesus makes us exiles because it doesn't fit the bill of the universe.
Seth: Oh, yeah, yeah.
David: Uh, you know, it's different than everybody else is living. And so, like, you could think about, you know, someone engaging in some kind of sexual ex- escapade-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... saying like, "Man, that was glorious."
Seth: Yeah. [laughs]
David: You know?
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: Or like, "That was an excellent experience."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And then to look at Jesus and actually say, He's calling you to His glory and His excellence, which is true glory and true excellence.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And it's not sex.
Seth: Right.
David: And it's not fame, and it's not the... It's the way of the cross.
Seth: Yeah.
David: It's the way of serving. There's glory and excellence in that.
Seth: Yeah. The false teachers will consistently paint, like, the way of Jesus as slavery. But Peter is painting this picture of, like, glory and power-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and, and divine freedom.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Divine power has granted-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... this to you. You might have power, like, the power to have fun, he'll say is, ultimately will lead you to slavery.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And the power to constrain yourself to a certain t- type of moral standard is true freedom and gives you true access to God's power.
David: Mm.
Seth: That's glory. That's excellence.
David: That's really awesome. Um, and then he also goes on to define his glory and excellence, if I'm reading this right. Uh, he's called us to his own glory and excellence by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises. So-
Seth: This is an odd sentence. [laughs]
David: Yeah, yeah, it is.
Seth: Uh...
David: So is it, is it his glory and excellence that is granted to us his promises? Is that what's being said?
Seth: Uh-
David: 'Cause, I mean, if we've said the glory and excellence of Jesus-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... is both his divine power and the way of the cross-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... then the, God using his divine power to go to the cross in the person of Jesus would be how all the very great promises of the Bible are fulfilled, so it kind of makes sense. [laughs]
Seth: Yes.
David: Is that what you're thinking or something different?
Seth: I th- I think so.
David: Yeah.
Seth: I think it's the glory and excellence of Jesus. It make, it makes God's promises come true.
David: Yeah, the glory of Jesus makes God's promises come true.
Seth: Right. And what's funny about this is he never names the promises.
David: No.
Seth: Which is interesting, 'cause like, you just... So, so what promises did Jesus accomplish for me?
David: Uh-huh.
Seth: He doesn't say what they are, but he does say what they do-
David: Mm
Seth: ... which is in verse five. He says, "God's..." Or it's, it's actually continued in verse four, sorry.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Uh...
David: "So that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature."
Seth: Yep.
David: Okay.
Seth: "And escape the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire."
David: Well, there it is. That's what we're saying is his whole thesis statement, is you don't have to fall under the swelling current of the evil around you.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: You can escape it. Why? Because you have been grafted in to the personhood of God.
Seth: Yeah.
David: You are now a partaker of the divine nature.
Seth: Yeah, you are-
David: Which-
Seth: Yeah, or in other word, it was a participation-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... in the divine nature.
David: Yeah, which is the Greek word koinōnia.
Seth: Fellowship.
David: Which is fellowship.
Seth: Yeah.
David: It's, like, often used to describe the church.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: The church has koinōnia. Um, and, like, to have that kind of... You have that unity and community-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... with God, and that's why you've escaped the corruption-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... is because you're now a part of Jesus's body.
Seth: Yeah, you share Jesus's own moral perfection.
David: Right. You share his nature. You share his na- which, we should just pause for a second.
Seth: Yeah. Come on.
David: This is a kind of, like, a, a crazy idea that mankind can join themselves to God, the divine's moral perfection, and through that escape our own moral corruption.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Think about the Greek-speaking world of Peter's day-
Seth: Mm
David: ... for just a moment, where they said the divine and the human could not interact in that way. They said to be... Uh, so this is not necessarily the false, what the false teachers are saying, that everybody-
Seth: Right, right, right. But it's just like-
David: ... broad Greek culture
Seth: The, the broader Greek culture would have said that God's nature cannot mix with man's nature
David: Right
Seth: Because what's earthly, what's manly, what's fleshly is wrong, bad-
David: You're talking about a-
Seth: ... subpar
David: ... Platonic dualism
Seth: Like, some sort of Platonic dualism or an early Gnosticism.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Like, that was part of the culture.
David: It's in the water. Yeah.
Seth: It was in the water, and he's, like, pushing up against that pretty hard and saying-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... "No."
David: You actually join. [laughs]
Seth: You jo- God joins himself to you, and you participate with him, and because the divine and the human mix together, it changes the way you live.
David: Mm.
Seth: You become... You join in his moral perfection. You escape moral corruption.
David: [smacks lips] Yeah. Man, I'm just thinking, like, we say it's kinda like this thing we don't really think about very often, or it's this different way to think about how, how we escape moral corruption. Very true. I just also want to flag, it's, it's different especially for Protestants. [laughs]
Seth: Okay.
David: 'Cause I think there's, in some other world... Like, in, like, in the... Even in the Catholic tradition, um, there is a lot more mysticism, you know?
Seth: Yeah.
David: They just have a history of mystics.
Seth: Yeah.
David: You know? And think what you will about them. I'm not making a value statement here.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Uh, I've read a lot of them. Um-
Seth: It's fascinating.
David: It's fascinating. Um, but they talk about participation in the divine-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... really easily. Uh, and I think that's why there's the... So, you know, there's a historical reaction against that type of mysticism-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... that can almost make, um, claims like these, verses like these, we wanna water them down.
Seth: Yeah.
David: 'Cause it's just like, that just feels wrong.
Seth: Right.
David: Like, that we share God's nature.
Seth: Yeah.
David: But it's like, how, how different is that from saying that we have God's spirit? It's the same thing.
Seth: Yeah.
David: But like we said, he's talking to a Greek audience-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and using some different words-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... to help communicate the same truth.
Seth: Yeah, but stronger than share and have-
David: Yeah, is participate
Seth: ... participate.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Partakers of.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And [sighs]
David: I mean, it's amazing.
Seth: It's... I want it to feel amazing.
David: Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: Like, as I'm talking about it, like, I want it to feel amazing for me.
David: This is why I got stuck on these verses.
Seth: Right.
David: 'Cause I was like... I felt the same thing. I was like, "I need to meditate on this until I cry." [laughs]
Seth: I [sighs]... I think... I mean, okay, so if we don't have participation-
David: Mm
Seth: ... in the divine nature-
David: What's on the line if this wasn't true? Is that what you're getting at?
Seth: Right.
David: Okay.
Seth: If w- if our lives are, like, temporally and eternally dominated by our-
David: Corruption
Seth: ... former sins-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... or our former corruption, and the corruption others have, have inflicted upon us-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... like, what is that?
David: I mean-
Seth: That's hell, right?
David: That's hell. I mean, and it's like-
Seth: If the, if the only participation in an eternal reality is the corruption of yourself and other people-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... that's, that's the, that's the other option on the line.
David: It is. Well, and even more sharply, like, uh, to get it, like, to get it kinda personal to today-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... it is the opposite narrative of postmodern Enlightenment.
Seth: Okay.
David: That human growth is always up and to the right.
Seth: Mm.
David: We are always improving, always getting smarter, better, faster, stronger. We're always doing things more efficiently. We're always becoming more virtuous. We're always becoming more tol- tolerant.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: We're always becoming more inclusive.
Seth: Right.
David: Uh, that is not only the narrative of our society, but it's the narrative we wanna believe of ourselves.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Self-help books.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Like, we are always getting better.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And the l- there's a lie in it, that if you aren't joined to the divine nature, if you're not in Christ-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... then no matter how hard you work to improve yourself and your society-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... you are actually stagnating, going down and to the right. Or, uh-
Seth: Down and to-
David: Down, down and to the right, yeah.
Seth: Yeah, yeah.
David: Uh, and you're actually plummeting into hell.
Seth: Mm.
David: Like, what you think-
Seth: Right
David: ... is moral improvement is actually moral degradation.
Seth: Right, because, I mean, and Peter's point is, like, if Jesus is the m- is perfection, moral perfection, righteousness itself-
David: Yes
Seth: ... if you are not joined to him, how can you improve?
David: Right.
Seth: How can you live a life of goodness and virtue?
David: Yeah, 'cause he is excellence, not any other standard. He-
Seth: He is virtue incarnate-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... right?
David: Yeah. And e- if you don't have him, you cannot have-
Seth: Right
David: ... excellence. You can't have virtue.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Um, you can't get better. We wanna get better.
Seth: Yeah.
David: In the famous words of our favorite, Chris Renziema.
Seth: Yeah.
David: We all just wanna get better. [laughs]
Seth: Um, well, it makes me think again about these being Peter's last words.
David: Okay.
Seth: And, um, why is this the thought to go out on, the fact that I have... I participate in the divine nature-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... that I am morally pure by the divine fiat of Jesus?
David: Man, I got... Two answers came into my head.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Uh, and like, I, I th- I'm thinking about my grandad, who's, who's dead. Um, he was just a man of God, and just, I have his Bible that he used to take around with him, sharing the gospel everywhere, sitting on my shelf in my office. Uh, he just... He, he wore his Bibles out in two years. It w- I mean, he... I just love him.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And, uh, miss him like crazy. And he, uh, when he was close to death, two things just kept ping-ponging back and forth, pendulum swings. He would say, "I just cannot wait to be with Jesus," and then he would just swing back and say, "I hope I did enough to be with Jesus."
Seth: Mm.
David: And like, when you're on your deathbed, [laughs] I feel like those are-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... the two things you're gonna think, is, "I can't wait to be in the divine nature-
Seth: Mm
David: ... and I hope my corrupted nature doesn't keep me out of the divine nature." [laughs]
Seth: Right, right, right. [laughs]
David: And it's like, that's why it's good news on your deathbed-
Seth: Mm
David: ... to know that by the divine fiat of Jesus, and it's his... He owns the righteousness.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: It's, it's his purview, his property.
Seth: His divine power has been granted to you-
David: And it's here-
Seth: ... gifted to you
David: ... here you go, deal with it.
Seth: Yeah.
David: It's yours now. And there is that impartation, that irroka- ir- irrevocable impartation of Jesus's virtue that is really good news when you're about to die.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Not only 'cause it calls you into it, and you can't wait to cross-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... that precipice, but also because you know that you can be safe when you do. [laughs]
Seth: I'm also just thinking, like, if you're on your deathbedYou can't do anything else.
David: No. No.
Seth: You can't go out and give more money to the poor, you can't... You know, like if you're on your death bed, all you have to offer is faith.
David: Mm, that's so true.
Seth: Right? Like y- like you, you don't have any time left.
David: Nope.
Seth: And so Peter is saying, "I have all... The reason why I have hope is because I can sit here and lay here in my, in my dying-
David: Yep
Seth: ... and by faith know I-"
David: Am participating in the divine nature.
Seth: Yes, and I will forever. I will be part of a new heavens and a new Earth where righteousness dwells forever.
David: And that's how he ends the letter. Yeah.
Seth: That's how he ends the letter.
David: Okay. Hoo. Okay, so-
Seth: Uh
David: ... is there, is there a really concrete way to talk about the gospel in this that we haven't already? I mean, it's Jesus. What is the righteousness of Jesus? [laughs] Like, we kind of-
Seth: Right, right, right
David: ... asked that question at the beginning.
Seth: Right.
David: Was it his good works? Is it his moral standing before the Father?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: We said yes, and.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And both of those are given to us-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... by virtue of our faith in him.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Um, but that transaction-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... that giftedness wasn't just out of divine fiat alone-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... as in, uh, God spoke and it happened. There was the cross-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... in which our unrighteousness was put on Jesus-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... so that we could partake in the divine nature. Our corruption, our human nature, our fallen, sinful state, he became on the cross-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... Paul says, uh, so that we could become his righteousness.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Right? He took our human nature so we could take on his divine nature.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: There was a divine exchange, right?
Seth: Yeah.
David: Isn't, isn't that what Luther called it?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Um, where he takes on our human nature so we can take on his divine nature.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And it is at the cross, in Jesus suffering as we should have suffered-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... that that exchange happened.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And that's the gospel.
Seth: Yeah.
David: I just wanna like put a really fine point on how this is possible.
Seth: Yeah.
David: 'Cause I feel like, especially sometimes, some of the... Like, some-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... mystical authors can skip over that moment.
Seth: Right, right, right.
David: Which is, God's just inviting you in. He's like-
Seth: Well-
David: ... "He is, but through his blood"
Seth: And it is interesting, Peter doesn't mention the cross.
David: No, he does not.
Seth: Which I w- I was like kinda tripped up by it-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... as I was like, "Does that mean I can talk about the righteousness of God apart from reference to the cross?" And I think that's true in one sense, right? Like, the fact that the divine and the human joined in the womb of Mary is good news because it offers me the hope that the divine and human can join once again, right? Like, that is good news. [laughs]
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Um, but I think you're right. It's like, I think Peter's probably assuming a little bit of his audience-
David: Oh, yeah
Seth: ... as well. It's like, you-
David: Yeah, I mean, wh- when you and I preach, we don't have to go, "Now this is only if you're a Christian."
Seth: Right.
David: You know? "This is only if you've believed in X, Y, Z."
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: We can, we feel free to preach good news.
Seth: Yes.
David: Like, "Hey, you're saved."
Seth: Yeah.
David: We don't have to... We've-
Seth: Yeah.
David: So like, just because Peter doesn't reference it doesn't mean the cross has no bearing here.
Seth: Right, right, right.
David: Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: Right. [gentle music]
David: Peter is saying that we need to pursue godliness, virtue, because we're in God.
Seth: Uh, actually, more specifically, God has given-
David: Us-
Seth: ... himself
David: ... his godliness.
Seth: Like [laughs] yeah, yeah. Like, God has given us his divine power and divine nature, and we share in it.
David: Okay.
Seth: Uh-
David: And then there's a, there's an interesting turn here-
Seth: Right
David: ... where it's okay, God has given us his divine power to make us share in his divine nature.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: So therefore, m- you go make every effort-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... to pursue that.
Seth: Yes.
David: So it's this, it's this divine-human duality [laughs]-
Seth: Well-
David: ... where it's like, does, does God just give it to us, or do we have to work hard to pursue it?
Seth: Well, go back one verse.
David: Okay.
Seth: He says, "One of the, the pro- one of the things the promises of God does, it makes us partakers of the divine nature, and it helps us escape from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire." So like, that, that, that escape, I think is a two-part escape.
David: Mm.
Seth: One, you have been made more... You've been joined to the moral purity of Jesus.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And... So it's an event that happens in your life. You've been partakers, participants in divine nature. But it's also a journey. Jesus has saved us, but we still need to make every effort to add to our faith virtue and goodness-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and godliness. It's a, it's an event and a process. Like, moral perfection and moral progress at the same time.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Does that make sense?
David: Yeah, definitely. And I think another way... I'm, like, trying to pick, get the right metaphor. None of them quite work.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Um, but, like, I'll give you both of them, and everyone please give me grace. I always over-caveat when I do these things.
Seth: Yeah, just, just go for the metaphor.
David: But, um, the first idea I had was, like, okay, you're in quicksand.
Seth: Okay.
David: And then you get thrown this-
Seth: Mm
David: ... this immutably sturdy lifeline.
Seth: Mm.
David: Like, it's, it's not gonna break.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Your hands can't slip from it. You know, it's perfectly going to pull you up.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: But you gotta, you gotta pull up.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: You gotta get out of the, out of the mud. So it's go- I... And then the question I'm, like, asking that I don't want anyone to ask for, 'cause the metaphor breaks is, so do you, does God save you or do you save yourself? God saves you 100%, it's all grace.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So, like, be quiet.
Seth: But-
David: Anyway. [laughs]
Seth: Be quiet, brain. [laughs]
David: The other one was, uh-
Seth: Shut up, metaphor. [laughs]
David: Shut up, seminary. [laughs]
Seth: [laughs]
David: That's what that... That's all seminary.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Uh, anyway, and then, um, I'm still healing from, you know-
Seth: Mm, we all are
David: ... knowing that. Uh, the other one was, like, more like a post-apocalyptic-
Seth: Mm, I'm already in
David: ... first-person shooter.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: Where it's like you're surrounded by zombies, and then God just, like, gives you a p- like a plasma gun or something.
Seth: Right, right, right.
David: And you're just like, "Hey, you're gonna win. Here's, here's body armor and a gun."
Seth: Yeah.
David: "And just go nuts."
Seth: Just go nuts. [laughs]
David: And you gotta work your way out of the corruption, is just like the dumb picture I had in my head. But okay.
Seth: I think the, I think the, the easier thing to say-
David: Thing, maybe that's a-
Seth: ... maybe that's a better metaphor [laughs] is just-If we have been saved by a righteous God-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... if we are participators, participators with a divine righteousness, what does that mean as we live in a sinful world? And that, that's all-
David: Mm
Seth: ... you have to say.
David: Oh, it's helpful. Yeah, that's helpful. 'Cause it's like, it's the whole exile thing.
Seth: Yes.
David: Where it's like you've been set apart, and now it's hard to live there because you've been set apart.
Seth: Yes.
David: You've been given the divine nature, and you live around sinful nature.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: You're gonna have to make every effort to live in and around the sinful nature as someone who has been set apart by the divine nature. It's hard. [laughs]
Seth: It's hard.
David: And so he then lists a bunch of ways to supplement your faith. [laughs]
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: These are your faith vitamins. [laughs]
Seth: Yeah, supplement your faith with virtue.
David: This is the GNC of-
Seth: Of... [laughs] So dumb.
David: For our international listeners-
Seth: Oh
David: ... a GNC is a supplement store where you get, like, protein powder and stuff.
Seth: And vitamins.
David: And vitamins. Anyway. [laughs]
Seth: It's a really bad meta-
David: Uh-
Seth: Full of bad metaphors today
David: ... you're full of bad metaphors today.
Seth: [laughs] So this is why we should supplement our faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and knowledge with self-control, with steadfastness, and with steadfastness with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
David: Mm.
Seth: Interestingly, everything except faith and love were common Greek virtues-
David: Mm
Seth: ... talked about in, like, famous Greek philosophers at the time, like, uh, self-control, virtue, knowledge, stead- like, steadfastness or faithfulness. Go- uh, godliness would... not necessarily-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... but, like, that moral perfection and brotherly affection were all common Greek values.
David: Mm.
Seth: But he says, "What brackets those things?"
David: You gotta add into those things some of this divine nature. [laughs]
Seth: The Christian faith in the righteous Jesus and the love that God has demonstrated for the cross of Jesus-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and love for one another, uh, which I thought was an interesting-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... little historical note.
David: How, how, how are we supposed to think about these? Um, do they all just kind of mesh together throughout time?
Seth: Mm.
David: Or are they progressive?
Seth: Like, once you got virtue, then you get knowledge.
David: Then you can go to the next level, and then you go to the next level. [laughs] Like-
Seth: Maybe. I don't know.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Do you have an answer to this?
David: No. I was meditating on it this morning, and I wrote down, um, "Man, it's really cool that..." I didn't write, "It's really cool." [laughs]
Seth: [laughs]
David: I was thinking. I wrote something snappier.
Seth: Dear diary-
David: Dear diary-
Seth: ... it's so cool
David: ... it's so cool that...
Seth: [laughs]
David: No, I wrote that, um, it's interesting that the, uh, that knowledge comes before virt- or after virtue or goodness.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: 'Cause it's like knowledge puffs up but love builds up, and I was like-
Seth: Oh
David: ... I know what it's like to have virtuous knowledge. [laughs]
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: To have, uh, have knowledge and no goodness.
Seth: Mm.
David: And it's like someone who's, knows everything but is not a good person is one of the worst people. And so it's ju- I was like, oh, it's interesting that you, i- you have virtue first and then knowledge.
Seth: Yeah.
David: But then I was like, but then I was like, I don't know if I'm just-
Seth: Yeah, no.
David: It-
Seth: It's super interest- uh, what it made me... I, I don't know if... You could... I think you're supposed to make them coextensive with one another.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, your virtue should be a knowledgeable virtue-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... and your, your, your, your knowledge should be a faithful type of knowledge, and your love should be defined by virtue and-
David: Yes
Seth: ... knowledge as well. But it also made me think of what Peter says to husbands about their wives. He says, "Love your wives according to knowledge."
David: Oh.
Seth: He, uh, or in an understanding way.
David: Yeah.
Seth: But the, the Greek says according to knowledge.
David: Right.
Seth: Like, know, like, practice your love-
David: The virtues have to talk to one another-
Seth: Right
David: ... and be built on one another.
Seth: Right.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So, so, like, the more virtue I have, the more holy my knowledge will be-
David: Mm
Seth: ... the better my knowledge will be.
David: Mm.
Seth: The more self-control you have, the better you'll be able to live a godly, self-controlled li- you know-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... a godly life.
David: Yeah, definitely.
Seth: Right.
David: That's, that's... The more knowledgeable I am, the better I'll love people.
Seth: Mm-hmm. Yes.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That's cool. Yeah, the more you know somebody else, the better you'll love them.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And I don't know what qui- ki- qui- q- kind of knowledge is meant here-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... but, like-
David: But it's fun. I think that'd be a cool thing for anybody to just meditate on-
Seth: Mm
David: ... is how these all correspond, and I think the thing to take away is, like... or how I was thinking about it-
Seth: Mm
David: ... was like, do they progress? Like, you can't go to level two until you do level one.
Seth: Mm.
David: You can't-
Seth: Right
David: ... you gotta have virtue first, and then you can have knowledge. I was like, no, but the thing that you, that we wanna build off of this is that these do grow out of one another.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And you should stack love on top of knowledge, but you should also stack knowledge on top of love.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And so anyway.
Seth: It made me think about a conversation we've had, I think, at least once on the podcast about the way that God is, um, that his attributes don't compete with one another.
David: Yes, but they build on, make better, and-
Seth: Qualify one another
David: ... qualify one another.
Seth: So it's like God, like, s- God is both loving-
David: Loving and wrathful
Seth: ... and, yeah, and it's like, how can those things coexist at the same time? 'Cause me, when I... that happens in me, those things, it falls apart.
David: Right.
Seth: I, I'm, I'm-
David: But it's 'cause he's-
Seth: ... angry at the wrong time.
David: Right.
Seth: And I am too merciful when I shouldn't be. But those perfectly complement each other in God.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And I'm wondering, like, even, like, the sharing in the divine nature-
David: Oh
Seth: ... even in, in the same way that, like, God, all of his attributes are perfectly qualifying one another and growing one another, like, we too, like, over time, our love and our anger actually makes sense more and more. Our discipline towards our children and our mercy towards them is right-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and not, like, unfair.
David: Mm.
Seth: Um, our wisdom and our kindness.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, you know, like, all that, they, they look more like God's nature-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... where there's unity between them and not competition.
David: God is fully integrated in every characteristic, and we can join in that divine nature-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and have non-conflicting characteristics that all build off of and qualify one another.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Our knowledge never has to be a loveless knowledge.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: You know? Anyway.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Okay. That's really good.Uh, and so he, he lists all of these, and then he makes a concluding statement. Um, "For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in your knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: While we were praying before this, I said, like, "This is one of my fears." [laughs]
Seth: Right, right.
David: Is like, that I would know everything about Jesus and everything about the Bible, but that that knowledge would be ineffective and unfruitful. [laughs] And I was like, "Oh, God, I don't want that. Please save me." [laughs]
Seth: Right.
David: And it's like, oh, well, here we go. If these qualities are mine and are increasing, I won't be ineffective, and I won't be unfruitful.
Seth: It's interesting. I always think of, that if I... Doing wrong things robs me of joy-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and doing the right thing is never enough.
David: Mm.
Seth: That's what I always assume. But Peter comes in and says, "Do you know doing the right thing is actually proof you're doing a, doing all right?" Like-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... I never allow myself to think about the fact that, like, if I'm better tomorrow than I was today-
David: That's-
Seth: ... if I say less swear words, whatever it is-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... like, that's actually proof that my knowledge of Jesus is increasing.
David: Right.
Seth: I don't allow myself to think that way.
David: Rather than I've finally risen to the bare minimum.
Seth: Right. I-
David: I ju- I just, all, all I get out of that is I don't have to be mad at myself today.
Seth: Right.
David: [laughs]
Seth: That's exactly right.
David: [laughs]
Seth: Peter wa- is encouraging people who are like, who everyone's attacking them for their moral virtue, right?
David: Right.
Seth: Like, right now, the, the, the Christian moral ethic that he's encouraging is being attacked by everybody.
David: Yeah. "You Christians are so lame for not coming to the dance."
Seth: And he, he's saying, like, "Every time you say no to the dance, don't you realize that sh- that's your faith being fruitful?"
David: Yeah.
Seth: "That you're, uh, not being nearsighted and blind, forgetting that you were cleansed from former sins," that's the next verse.
David: Mm.
Seth: Like, you're proving in the moment that you make moral progress that you are part of God's divine nature.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um, and I don't, don't allow myself to think that.
David: Mm.
Seth: I, I discount my moral progress and only count my moral failings.
David: Totally. Well, another way to say this is some, is some things [laughs] that Jesus said where he's like, "You'll know a tree by its fruit," where it's like if you're fruitful, if you're growing in knowledge and virtue and self-control, and these qualities are yours and increasing-
Seth: Mm
David: ... growing, bearing fruit, then you know the tree's healthy. You know, like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... the fruit tells you about the root. This is classic Jesus stuff.
Seth: Yes.
David: And it's just good news. What I love about that next verse you read, 'cause he flips it on its head, he's like, "Okay, so if you have these qualities, you're good to go."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: He's like, "But if you don't have these qualities, then here's what you've done. You have forgotten that you've been cleansed from your sins."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And so you can flip that the other way, you can say that positively and say, "The way to continue pursuing faith, and virtue, and knowledge, and self-control, and love, and all these other things-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... is to remember that Jesus has cleansed your sins."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Like, that's the-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... top of the funnel.
Seth: Uh-huh.
David: How do you get to faith, and virtue, and self-control? By meditating on and remembering that Jesus, by his sacrifice on the cross-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... has saved you from your former sins.
Seth: Yeah.
David: You go back to that every day.
Seth: Yeah.
David: That is base camp.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And then you hit base camp, Jesus saved me from my sins, I've been cleansed from my former sins, man, my life is gonna be filled with virtue, and self-control, and faith, and love, and knowledge because of that.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And if you're not growing in those things, it's 'cause you've not, you're not meditating on the gospel. The gospel's the top of the funnel.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Anyway, I just love that.
Seth: No, I'm thinking of a couple things right now. One, it makes me think that, like, whoever lacks these qualities forgets that they're cleansed. So the negative, I was just focusing on the negative way to say that too.
David: Yes, yes.
Seth: I was like, oh, when, so when I sin, the primary cause of my sin is forgetting that I was, that I share God's divine nature.
David: Yeah.
Seth: I'm forgetting that I'm part of God's righteousness.
David: I'm forgetting that I've been cleansed from my sins.
Seth: 'Cause I think the normal pattern for me to think is like, oh, I sin because I'm a terrible person.
David: Right.
Seth: Right? I sin-
David: Right. [laughs]
Seth: ... I sin because I'm a sinner, and that's true as far as it goes, but-
David: Right
Seth: ... Peter's inviting us to think about a different cause and effect.
David: Uh-huh.
Seth: The way that you make moral progress in your life is by returning to the fact that you've been enjoined with this divine power. The way that you, and the reason why you sin in this life is because you forget you're joined to-
David: Yes
Seth: ... that divine power.
David: That's right. Yeah.
Seth: What does that change for the average person tomorrow?
David: Oh, yeah.
Seth: I'm dealing with X.
David: Yeah.
Seth: I, like, I'm angry towards my kids.
David: Yeah.
Seth: I'm angry towards my coworkers.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And I wanna make some moral progress with that. Okay, David, you just told me the way that I fix that problem is by thinking about Jesus more.
David: Mm.
Seth: Put that on the ground for me, like, tomorrow.
David: Great. So I wrote a book about this. [laughs]
Seth: [laughs]
David: An entire book answering this question called Rewire Your Heart. I really did, though. Um-
Seth: Sponsor of this podcast. [laughs]
David: Yes. But seriously, I mean, that's why I got so excited about this.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Because I was like, oh my goodness, it's my-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... thesis statement for the book. Um, that we think that the way to make moral progress, or let's just say it this way, the way to stop sinning-
Seth: Mm
David: ... the way to beat sin, that sin in your life, that X, where you're just like, "I wanna stop doing this thing," we think the way to do that is to jump to self-control. Let me just buckle down, push that sin down-
Seth: I'm gonna-
David: ... and just stop doing it.
Seth: I'm gonna count to 10 every time I feel angry.
David: That's right.
Seth: Yeah.
David: I'm just gonna, like, be a better person. I can, I can kick it, you know?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And we are failing to recognize how we are built as human beings, [laughs] that we do things based on our belief systems. That I believe that, um, anger is the quickest way to get what I want.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Or, you know, like, whatever it is.
Seth: Right.
David: Uh, I believe that I will be most satisfied when I look at pornography-
Seth: Mm
David: ... uh, because of this whole belief system that I have. And so we have to get underneath our actionsAnd we can't do that with more different actions.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: We can only do it by getting to our belief system and our belief system is comprised of things we believe about God and things we disbelieve about God, the way he built his universe.
Seth: Which is, seems to be what he's saying here.
David: Yes.
Seth: He's like he's starting like, "Do you know who you are? Do you know who God is, the righteous one? Do you know who you are in him? So participated in his righteousness." Like he, he, Peter's agreeing with you here.
David: Yep.
Seth: Okay. Um.
David: Yeah, and so, um, and so if you want to change what you're doing-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... you have to change what you believe.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And I can't go into all the details-
Seth: But-
David: ... but that's the bare, like, like that's the bottom of it.
Seth: That's where it begins
David: ... is like if you want to change, um, uh, your habit of looking at pornography, then you have to change what you believe about the world, that God is holding back something from you whenever he tells you to stop looking at pornography. You think he wants you to be unsatisfied. He thinks, you think you, he wants you to be unfulfilled.
Seth: Mm.
David: And the truth is that he is ultimate satisfaction.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: That looking at him will actually satisfy your eyes in the way those images on your computer screen never can.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And the w- and like, and the preeminent way that he has revealed himself to you to satisfy those lusty desires that just can never be satisfied-
Seth: Right
David: ... that are always growing is by dying for you looking at pornography on the cross, and he wants you to behold that and know that he loves you, died for those sins, even those really ugly ones where you were, you know, locked in your bedroom and no one knew what you were looking at on your computer.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: He knew-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and he died for it because he loves you, and when you behold that, when you remember that, when you remember you were cleansed for your sins because of that, it's going to change the way you live.
Seth: If you know what you're doing now cost Jesus's blood-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and that he willingly offered it, it should give you a different reason for saying no.
David: Right. Well-
Seth: A diff- a different motivation-
David: Yes
Seth: ... for it.
David: And ultimately, and this is not really Peter's point-
Seth: Right
David: ... but ultimately because you must replace your actions with a better yes, because no is just not powerful enough. [laughs]
Seth: Mm. Right, right, right.
David: You need... Yeah, that's why you're supplementing your life with good things, not just ripping bad things out of your life.
Seth: Which might be why Peter is focusing on the righteousness God gives to us, the righteousness we've been included in.
David: Right. Not just the corruption we're escaping.
Seth: Right.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um, okay. So interesting.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So I think, I think you're right, and I think Peter agrees with you. There's a primacy to us remembering what God has done for us as we go to battle sin.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: But the next verse he says, "Be all the more diligent, brothers, to confirm your calling and election, because if you practice these things," referring to the virtues-
David: The qualities
Seth: ... the virtue and loving kindness, "you will never fall."
David: Mm.
Seth: So Peter doesn't seem to pit believing the right things about Jesus against doing and making every effort. So it's like you mentioned like, oh, I, just doing the right stuff isn't gonna-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... fix you. You need-
David: Yeah, yeah. Do I pull myself out of the quicksand or does Jesus pull me out of the quicksand?
Seth: And so like, I'm like I'm trying to like mess with that. Like how, how do these two things work together? How does me remembering what God has done for me and my participation in the divine help me make moral progress?
David: Yeah.
Seth: And how does my moral progress help me be confirmed that I'm actually saved on my deathbed, you know?
David: Right. Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, it's like, uh, how do you know something's an apple tree? When there's apples on it.
Seth: Yeah.
David: If there's no apples on it, you might be like, "Is that an apple tree?" If you know, unless you know trees really well.
Seth: Right.
David: But you know. [laughs]
Seth: That leaf shape.
David: That, that leaf shape is definitely an apple tree. But you know what, you know what I mean.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: I mean, that's the idea here is that, uh, you've been made into something.
Seth: Mm.
David: A Christian. You've been grafted into the divine nature. You've been made like God.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And so when you start to live like Jesus, when you start to live like God, when godliness manifests itself in your life, you're like, "Oh, look at that. I sprouted an apple blossom." [laughs]
Seth: Mm.
David: Like, "I must be in the divine nature."
Seth: A tree. I must be a tree. Yeah, I must be an apple tree.
David: I must be a tree. [laughs]
Seth: Yeah. [laughs]
David: Exactly. So I mean, it's as simple as that. Um, and, and we, I feel like we talked a lot about this when we were going through the letters of John.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Uh, so I'm just reminded-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... of all that.
Seth: Yeah.
David: I feel like I wrestled with it more there.
Seth: Yes.
David: And now I'm just like convinced-
Seth: Convinced. Right
David: ... that these are not opposing thoughts.
Seth: Yeah, I think there was a time when I began reading like Jesus into all scripture that I was afraid to talk about the power of doing the right thing.
David: Right.
Seth: The power of moral progress, the power of making every effort-
David: Mm
Seth: ... to add to my faith virtue and virtue steadfastness.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Because to do that would be focus, take the focus off the fact that I've been joined to Christ, right?
David: Yep. Mm-hmm.
Seth: Um, I don't think Peter is as scared as I am-
David: Well, no
Seth: ... to do that thing.
David: Because he says, "If you're focusing on Christ, you will bear fruit. If you're focusing on the go- if you're gospel centered-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... you will be virtuous. And if you're not virtuous, you're not gospel centered."
Seth: And if you are virtuous, you can know you are in God.
David: Yes.
Seth: You can know that he is the vine and you are the branch. Yeah.
David: Right. Yeah. So that's helpful. Uh, c-confirming you're calling an election.
Seth: Uh-huh.
David: We're just kinda, we kinda, we kinda substituted that-
Seth: Jumped over that
David: ... with like confirming and, that you're in the divine nature or [laughs] whatever. And it's like-
Seth: Yeah, yeah
David: ... this is c-calling back to some of the language in 1 Peter, right?
Seth: Um.
David: That, th-these are the chosen people.
Seth: Yes.
David: That these are the elect exiles. Like these are, this is all language he used in 1 Peter 1 to, in his first letter, he called them these things. So he's like, "You wanna know that you are set apart in the midst of all this evil?"
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: "Confirm that you're an exile. Confirm that you're chosen and set apart by acting differently than everybody." [laughs]
Seth: That's right.
David: So it's like pretty clear. [laughs]
Seth: It's, it's pretty clear. Yeah. He's, uh, what are we called to?Being God's elect exile.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That's right.
David: Okay, so for in this way, uh, there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. So in this, in this confirming, in this diligence, in these adding virtue to virtue-
Seth: Mm-hmm, in this remembering we participate in the divine.
David: Yeah. You, you will be richly pr- provided by being given entrance into the eternal kingdom of Jesus.
Seth: Right, which he again says later is a new heavens and a ne- new Earth where righteousness dwells.
David: Ah. So, oh, that's nice.
Seth: Or-
David: 'Cause it, it's... I mean, it's just, like, nice to think about where it's like righteousness and virtue and all these things can just kinda seem like a unachievable brass ring-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... where it's just like, "And I'm just gonna keep adding these things-"
Seth: Yeah
David: ... "together, and it, it's never gonna add up to me being Jesus."
Seth: Right.
David: But it's like, oh, but it actually will because I'm going to be in... I'm gonna enter into that kingdom.
Seth: Right. The way that I wrote it earlier today was, uh, at the end of Peter's life, the sermon he leaves on is that our righteous Savior shares his righteous nature with us so we can live righteous lives that will lead to eternal righteousness.
David: Ah, yeah.
Seth: Like, that, it's all goodness.
David: Yeah.
Seth: M- our current moral progress is going to one day give way to total moral perfection.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Um-
David: Yeah, and it, and it's something to think about, too, just the imagination here, like, the worldview here. We talk a lot about worldview.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Um, and it's like, you, we, Peter wants us to see that there is... The world is corrupt.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And it's fallen, and it's dark, and the goodness that we're given is just pushing that back, and then that's why goodness is not a neutra- like a, uh, an unconnected thing that pious people in caves do.
Seth: Mm.
David: You know?
Seth: Right, right.
David: It's like, it's something that has bearing on the world around you.
Seth: Right, it happens while you live in a sinful world-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... while the corrupt desires are raging-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... while the false teachers are telling you to do whatever it is they want you to do.
David: Right.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And the point of goodness is not to be so good that you finally get to a heavenly state where you can finally take a break and rest from all your piety.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Which is kind of like how people think about-
Seth: Mm
David: ... earning a spot in heaven.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: It's like, "Oh, finally, I'm, I was good enough. Now I can chill."
Seth: Yeah.
David: And it's like, no, the point is that y- like, God wants us to dwell in goodness.
Seth: Mm.
David: He wants us to be in a good place.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: But not a place that's good just for us and our evil whims.
Seth: Right. Well, I think it goes back to, like, uh, what does it mean to be in a place where righteousness dwells?
David: Yeah.
Seth: And I mean, the other word for righteousness is justice.
David: Yes.
Seth: What does it mean to live in a world where justice dwells?
David: I mean, if you're evil and you go to a place where justice, j- if you go to Justice's house-
Seth: Right
David: ... you, you're not gonna like it there.
Seth: Yes. No, you're not.
David: It's like the great divorce.
Seth: And so much of our lives now is dominated by injustice, right?
David: Yeah.
Seth: Whether systemically or personally-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... we're all the victims of or the perpetuators of injustice and unrighteousness.
David: Mm.
Seth: And I wanna be a part o- a world where that's not the case anymore, you know?
David: Yes.
Seth: And that's like, that's the, that's the good news that Peter's preaching.
David: Yep.
Seth: There's a day coming where-
David: Bad stuff goes away
Seth: ... bad stuff goes away.
David: [laughs]
Seth: And that started with Jesus.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And we participate in that justice and righteousness and goodness and mor- moral purity of Jesus now, and that's where we're headed.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And that's good news. Like, it's not disconnected. G- I think righteousness feels like, "Ah."
David: Yeah, [laughs] yeah.
Seth: You know, like it's like the monks chanting.
David: Yes.
Seth: Like-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... justice is coming.
David: Yes.
Seth: And that will define reality for us soon.
David: Mm, yeah. That's so good. Therefore, verse 12, "I intend always to remind you of these qualities." [laughs]
Seth: [laughs]
David: "Even onto my deathbed-"
Seth: Yeah.
David: "... I'm gonna tell you to keep pursuing self-control, though you know them. You know them, and you're established in them and in the truth that you have. So, but nevertheless, I think it right that as long as I'm in this body, I'm gonna keep stirring you up by way of reminding you of them, since I know that the putting off of my body will be soon, as Jesus has told me. I'm gonna die soon, so I'm gonna keep reminding you of this stuff until I die. And-"
Seth: "And that I, too, will make every effort-"
David: [laughs]
Seth: "... so that after my departure, you'll be able to recall these things."
David: And he did it by writing this letter.
Seth: And we're s- he did it.
David: He did it.
Seth: Now, he s- he, he made every effort, and-
David: Hundred, thousands of years later
Seth: ... thousands of years later, we are reading his letter still, reminding us of our participation in the divine and the new heaven and the new Earth-
David: Thanks, Peter
Seth: ... of justice to, to come.
David: [laughs] Well, that's good.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Uh, you wanna tee up next week's episode for us?
Seth: Yeah, next week, we're gonna dive into the skepticism about the end times.
David: Oh. Yeah, I remember us asking this question on the introduction. Uh, why hasn't Jesus come back yet?
Seth: Right.
David: And like-
Seth: He's gonna spend the rest of his letter talking about that.
David: Yeah, and will he ever come back?
Seth: And will he ever come back? And then all the categories of righteousness that we set up are finally gonna pay off because if Jesus doesn't come back, we can do what we want, right?
David: Right. Yeah.
Seth: Uh, so that's-
David: Ooh
Seth: ... that's next week.
David: Well, I'm excited for that, so look forward to that, guys, and, uh, thanks for joining us. We'll see you next week.
Outro: [upbeat music] Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel creates short films, devotionals, and podcasts like this one. Everything we make is free because of generous supporters like you. To see our resources, visit spokengospel.com or subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. See you next week. [upbeat music]
