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1 Corinthians Overview: "New" Corinth, Freaky Friday, and Church Surgery

About This Episode

The church in Corinth had a lot of problems and most of them had something to do with Corinthian’s posture towards their culture and their understanding of the resurrection. Seth and David introduce the book of Corinthians, talk about the strange way the ancient philosophy of Dualism pops up in modern culture, and how Corinthians is really good news for really broken churches.

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1 Corinthians Overview: Understanding Paul's Most Combative Letter to a Church Gone Astray

Show Notes

In this introductory episode exploring 1 Corinthians, hosts David and Seth lay the groundwork for understanding one of the New Testament's most theologically rich yet contextually challenging letters. The conversation reveals how the Corinthian church's dramatic failures actually gave rise to some of Scripture's most beautiful articulations of Christian faith, from the famous "love chapter" to the definitive teaching on bodily resurrection. What emerges is a portrait of a church that had imported far too much of its surrounding culture into its understanding of the Gospel.

The Paradox of Corinth: Beautiful Theology Born from Messy Dysfunction

Without the Corinthians' spectacular failures, the church would be missing some of its most treasured passages of Scripture. The congregation's ethical and theological errors prompted Paul to articulate what it truly means to be the Body of Christ, to provide the words read at communion tables across the world, and to pen the enduring declaration that "love is patient, love is kind." The book contains the Bible's most sustained conversation about singleness and the most thorough explanation of what resurrection bodies will be like.

This pattern reflects something profoundly Gospel-shaped: just as heresy throughout church history has bred orthodoxy and prompted the great creeds and statements about the Trinity, the sin of one particular church became a blessing to Christians throughout all time. The grace of God revealed through human sinfulness and inability has enriched the broader Christian community for two millennia. Coming to 1 Corinthians with this understanding transforms how readers engage with what might otherwise seem like an overwhelmingly negative letter addressed to a deeply troubled community.

Ancient Corinth: New Money, Sin City, and the Melting Pot of the Empire

Understanding the city of Corinth proves essential for grasping why this church struggled so dramatically. Corinth sat on a strategic isthmus connecting two parts of the Greek mainland, making it impossible to travel from one region to the other without passing through. This geographic advantage made Corinth fantastically wealthy as a port city controlling access to Asia. However, the city's prosperity led to fierce competition with Rome, and around 146 BC, Emperor Lucius destroyed Corinth entirely, leaving it in ruins for approximately 100 years.

The city was rebuilt roughly 46 BC, just 40 years before Jesus' birth and about 100 years before Paul wrote 1 Corinthians. Julius Caesar, facing overpopulation in Rome, force-migrated freed slaves to Corinth, creating a population of industrious people looking for upward mobility in a land of immense opportunity. The result resembled early twentieth-century New York City or the Gatsby era: new money without aristocracy, intense competition, brooding anti-authoritarianism, and no established ruling class or red tape. Religious diversity flourished alongside this economic boom, with one Roman historian counting 26 different temples and holy places in Corinth alone, not including the Jewish synagogue. Philosophy thrived there as well, creating a swirling mixture of Platonic, Aristotelian, Greek, and Roman thought.

The city's reputation for vice was so notorious that an ancient playwright coined the verb "corinthiazso" meaning to fornicate. Archaeological evidence confirms this reputation through pottery etched with images of venereal diseases, which supplicants would bring to temples seeking healing. Corinth was the ancient equivalent of Las Vegas combined with the intellectual pretensions of a university town, making it perhaps the most challenging context imaginable for a young church to maintain faithful Christian witness.

The Church at Corinth: Saints with Scandalous Pasts

The congregation Paul addressed reflected its city's diversity. Chapter 12 mentions Jews and Greeks, enslaved people and free people. The letter references Latin-named Jews, Greeks, and wealthy families. Yet Paul notes in chapter 1 that not many were wise by worldly standards, not many were powerful, and not many were of noble birth, indicating a wide socioeconomic range. Chapter 7 reveals many single people, widows, widowers, and married families. This thriving, metropolitan, diverse community was essentially a snapshot of the city itself.

More significantly, the church consisted primarily of former pagans. Three times throughout the letter, Paul references their pagan past with the phrase "such were some of you." In chapter 6, he provides a striking catalog: "Neither the sexually immoral, nor the idolaters, nor the adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the Kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." These were people who had lived hard in Vegas and become Christians. Yet remarkably, Paul still addresses them in his opening as "those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints."

One commentator captures the church's predicament perfectly: although they were the Christian church in Corinth, an inordinate amount of Corinth was yet in them, emerging in attitudes and behaviors that required radical surgery without killing the patient. That surgical work is precisely what 1 Corinthians attempts to accomplish.

Behind the Letter: Paul's History with Corinth and Their Combative Exchange

Paul planted the Corinthian church during an 18-month stay recorded in Acts 18. He preached in the synagogue and in the house of a man named Titus Justus, establishing not just one congregation but a network of home churches throughout the entire region of Achaia. His ministry ended when the Jewish establishment caused at least one riot, forcing him out of town. He then spent three years away from Corinth, during which troubling reports began reaching him.

Three times in the letter, Paul mentions concerning news he has received. Someone from Chloe's household informed him of quarrels. He heard reports of sexual immorality so extreme that even pagans would not tolerate it, specifically a man sleeping with his stepmother. He learned that divisions were manifesting at communion meals, with poor members leaving hungry while wealthy members left drunk. In response to these reports, Paul sent an initial letter that no longer exists, instructing them not to associate with sexually immoral people.

What happened next explains the combative tone of 1 Corinthians: the Corinthians wrote back. Their response apparently disagreed with Paul's ethical commands, questioned his authority to dictate their behavior, and defended their sexual and idolatrous practices. First Corinthians is therefore Paul's counter-response, which is why the letter can feel disjointed as Paul addresses point after point from their letter. Throughout, he quotes their arguments back at them: "You keep saying, 'All things are lawful for me.' But I say, not all things are helpful. And then you say, 'Food in my body doesn't mean anything.' But I tell you, your body means something."

Paul's Rhetorical Strategy: Sarcasm, Shame, and Dismantling False Wisdom

The letter's tone runs hot. Paul deploys sarcasm and irony freely, as when he asks incredulously, "Do you not know you're a temple of the Holy Spirit?" The implied rebuke cuts deep: these are basic concepts they should already understand. Twice he states explicitly that he writes to shame them, once in chapter 6 and again in chapter 15 when addressing those denying bodily resurrection. This intentional shaming serves a purpose because the Corinthians were being shameless about shameful deeds. They were even boasting about the man sleeping with his stepmother as evidence of their Christian liberty.

Paul attacks three areas where the Corinthians took particular pride: their so-called wisdom, their so-called knowledge, and their so-called spirituality. He writes, "If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become fools, so that you actually can become wise." He tells those who think they know something that they do not know what they ought to know. He challenges anyone who considers themselves spiritual to acknowledge that what he writes comes as the Lord's command. The Corinthians had become so enamored with rhetorical skill that they formed factions around preachers: some following Paul, others following Apollos, still others following Peter. They had abandoned the fundamental truth about which these men preached, namely Jesus Christ and him crucified.

This fascination with showy displays of intelligence and power reflected Corinthian culture rather than Gospel values. Paul reminds them that the Gospel calls for showy displays of humiliation, slavery, and foolishness as the path to true power. The irony is rich: Corinthians came to their new city seeking power, riches, and wisdom, and all of that is genuinely found in Jesus, but not in the way they imagined.

The Root Problem: Greek Dualism and the Denial of Bodily Resurrection

Beneath the ethical failures lies a theological distortion. In Paul's absence, local leadership had drifted toward Greek ways of thinking, particularly a philosophical dualism that devalued the body compared to spiritual reality. This worldview taught that the life of the mind mattered supremely while physical existence remained ultimately inconsequential. The result was a denial of the future bodily resurrection of believers.

This dualism created bizarre contradictions in Corinthian practice. Some argued they should abstain from sexual relations with their spouses because physical intimacy would taint their spiritual practices. Yet simultaneously, some defended the right to visit prostitutes because what they did with their bodies simply did not matter. The same logic allowed people to string together a comfortable theology that permitted them to live however they pleased while maintaining a veneer of hyper-spirituality.

Paul addresses this throughout the letter, but devotes chapter 15, one of the letter's longest chapters, entirely to defending bodily resurrection. Nearly every ethical command Paul gives throughout the letter connects in some way to this future hope. He confronts their diminished imagination by declaring something the dualists would find incomprehensible: "Your body is for the Lord, and the Lord for your body." This intimate relationship between God and human physicality explodes the categories of those raised in Platonic dualism. The Corinthians were failing to live in light of eternity because they had lost sight of what eternity actually involves: resurrected bodies dwelling with God in a renewed physical creation. This theme will shape everything Paul addresses in the letter and provides the lens through which the entire correspondence must be read.

Transcript

Seth: [gentle music] ... You're a temple of the Holy Spirit?

David: Right.

Seth: Like, the Holy Spirit lives inside of you? He's like, "These are, like, basic understanding-

David: Right

Seth: ... things that you-"

David: You didn't, you didn't know that?

Seth: You didn't know that?

David: [chuckles]

Seth: Seriously? Uh, seriously, guys, you didn't know that? Twice he tells them that he's specifically writing to shame them.

Intro: Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a ministry that's dedicated to speaking the gospel out of every corner of scripture. In Luke 24, Jesus told his disciples that every part of the Bible is about him. In each episode, hosts David and Seth work through a passage of scripture to see how it's all about Jesus and his good news. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]

David: Well, welcome, everybody, to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. We are beginning our look at the book of-

Seth: Of-

David: First Corinthians! [laughing]

Seth: First Corinthians. [laughing] Is that what you wanted? [laughing]

David: I, I really loved the vibe, opening up there.

Seth: [laughing]

David: Uh, very excited about this letter. It's f- I was, I was telling you off-air before we started, I was like, "I feel like I'm very familiar with all the sections of First Corinthians."

Seth: Yes.

David: Lots of famous-

Seth: Yes

David: ... stuff in here, lots of powerful stuff that we come to a lot, I think. But I was like, "I don't quite know how it all hangs together, or what each section's doing with the next section-"

Seth: Yes

David: ... or why it's included in Paul's overall argument."

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

David: So I'm very excited to talk about this-

Seth: Yes

David: ... letter.

Seth: I'm so excited.

David: Uh, how are you feeling about it?

Seth: I'm feeling really excited about it, because without the book of Corinthians, we don't have some really beautiful parts of scripture.

David: Mm.

Seth: Like, without the Corinthians just going off-the-rails crazy-

David: [laughing]

Seth: ... like, without the Corinthians', like, pretty dramatic ethical and theological error, we would not have one of the most beautiful articulations of what it means to be the Body of Christ.

David: Mm.

Seth: What it- what is quoted in most churches every time we serve the Lord's Table.

David: Oh, yeah, right.

Seth: We wouldn't have, uh, "Love is patient, love is kind..."

David: Oh, my gosh! Yeah. [laughing]

Seth: Uh, "Love never ends." We wouldn't have any of that. We wouldn't have the most sustained conversation about singleness in the Bible-

David: Oh, wow, yes

Seth: ... if it was not for the book of First Corinthians.

David: Gosh.

Seth: And what it means to have a resurrection body.

David: Mm.

Seth: Like, all these things are in the book of First Corinthians. And the reason I say it up front is, I come to First Corinthians with l- what little knowledge I had before studying it.

David: Mm.

Seth: And it's like, First Corinthians is a pretty messed-up church.

David: Yeah, right.

Seth: It's like, it's the... And I think everybody kinda knows, or most people know, that First Corinthians is the bad boy.

David: Or-

Seth: The Corinthians are the bad-

David: The Corinthians are the bad boys, yeah

Seth: ... the bad boys of the ancient world.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And their church is really messed up.

David: Right.

Seth: But it's to the most messed-up church that we get some of the most beautiful theology out of it.

David: That's cool.

Seth: And so it kinda just feels like the gospel-

David: Yeah [laughing]

Seth: ... even in and of itself, like-

David: Like-

Seth: ... the most beautiful parts of scripture come because of the sin-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... of one particular church.

David: That's cool. It's, it reminds me of, like, what they say, that, like, heresy breeds orthodoxy.

Seth: Yeah.

David: That some of the most famous and important Orthodox statements we have, and creeds we have, and, um, like, like, our, our opinions on the Trinity-

Seth: Yes

David: ... and things like that, all came out of needing to respond to heresy.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And so it's not s- we're not saying that this is exactly what's happening here in the Corinthian church, but you had-

Seth: But something of, like, the grace of God revealed in people's sinfulness-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... and, like, inability, gives... is a blessing to the broader Christian Church throughout time.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Yeah.

David: That's a pretty cool reflection.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Okay. So where do we start in our understanding of the letter of First Corinthians?

Seth: Well, we should probably just start with the city of Corinth in and of itself.

David: Okay.

Seth: So Corinth, uh, is, was rebuilt.

David: It was rebuilt-

Seth: It was

David: ... which means it was destroyed?

Seth: It was destroyed.

David: Okay.

Seth: So Corinthi- Corinth was this incredibly powerful and wealthy city. If you look at a map of Greece-

David: Mm

Seth: ... which I did not do until this podcast- [laughing]

David: [laughing] Wait, what? You didn't just-

Seth: I mean, I'd seen-

David: Your week-

Seth: It just looks like a mess of, like, islands and sea, and so I just, like [laughing]...

David: I just imagined you, like, uh, like, having breakfast, like, and once a week you just pull open your, your Greek map, and you're like, "Hmm, yes-

Seth: Interesting

David: ... still looks the same." [laughing]

Seth: [laughing] Yeah, no.

David: But whenever you're looking at your map of Greece-

Seth: I just see, like, a whole mess of islands.

David: Uh-huh.

Seth: But, like, there's a big mainland.

David: Okay, yeah.

Seth: And then this bit, it's called an isthmus.

David: Uh-huh.

Seth: There's a technical geographical term for this big strip of land, and then, like, another giant island, but it's still part of the mainland.

David: Okay.

Seth: Anyway, Corinth is, like, right there in the middle of all that.

David: Ah.

Seth: So it ends up being this super important trading route on both sides of Greece. You can't go from one part of the Grecian mainland to the other part of Gre- the Grecian mainland without going through Corinth.

David: I see.

Seth: So this is-

David: It was this big port city.

Seth: It's a huge port city-

David: Okay

Seth: ... super strategic, really important, um-

David: Important. I see what you did there.

Seth: What, what did I do there?

David: Port city-

Seth: Ah! [laughing]

David: ... important. Yeah, see?

Seth: I didn't even- [laughing]

David: Yeah

Seth: ... I did that.

David: It's good. Uh-

Seth: Add it to the Bible jokes video, the next one. [laughing]

David: Yeah, add it [laughing]...

Seth: But because of this incredible wealth, uh, it came into pretty hot competition with Rome.

David: Mm.

Seth: Corinth kinda like, controlled access to Asia, and so during the reign of one, uh, one Emperor Lucius, uh, they got into a battle, and Lucius just destroyed the whole city of Corinth.

David: Just out of jealousy-

Seth: Out of-

David: ... economic jealousy?

Seth: That's right. And he's like, "No, we're not gonna deal with Corinth anymore," and they just burn it to the ground.

David: Oh, I mean, that sounds like Rome.

Seth: And... Yeah, it sounds like Rome. [laughing]

David: It sounds like Rome.

Seth: So Corinth was a ruin for about 100 years.

David: Oh, wow! When was that?

Seth: So it happened in 146 BC.

David: Okay.

Seth: Uh, and then the city laid, like, in ruins for 100 years, and it wasn't-

David: Gosh

Seth: ... rebuilt until about 40 years before Jesus was born.

David: Okay.

Seth: 46 BC.

David: Whoa.

Seth: And about 100 years before we get the letter of-... First Corinthians.

David: Okay.

Seth: So Corinth is, like, this relatively new city, and it's, because it's so strategic, it's almost immediately wealthy.

David: Yes, right.

Seth: And Julius Caesar actually had a, a overpopulation problem in Rome-

David: Mm.

Seth: -and so he sends all these free men, like, people, slaves that had been recently, like, uh, released from their slavery, and they're all around Rome, and they don't have any work to do. So he just sends them, like, force migrates them to Corinth.

David: So they have all these industrious people-

Seth: Who are looking for a way up from the bottom.

David: Oh, gosh.

Seth: That's right, and a ton of opportunity as a once major port city.

David: Yeah, so they just get wealthy real quick probably.

Seth: Yes.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Super, super fast. So, like, imagine, like, early New York City.

David: Yes.

Seth: Right?

David: Right.

Seth: It's like the place of opportunity.

David: All the immigrants are coming there.

Seth: All the immigrants are coming there.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Uh, a lot of new money and no, like, aristocracy.

David: Yeah.

Seth: There's... It's all-

David: No red tape.

Seth: No red tape. It's just a wh-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... no rule, ancient ruling class or ruling families.

David: That's right.

Seth: It's all new money.

David: Oh, man.

Seth: Um, so there's just this, like, intensely, like, competitive, wealthy, and then this, like, brooding anti-authoritarianism that's just, like-

David: So should I just be thinking, like, New York in the '20s or something like that? [laughs]

Seth: You really should. I mean, it's a really not a bad parallel-

David: Okay [laughs]

Seth: ... uh, to be thinking like-

David: I'm thinking-

Seth: New York in the '20s

David: ... I'm just gonna be thinking Great Gatsby.

Seth: [laughs]

David: Is, I'm just gonna be thinking about The Great Gatsby. [laughs]

Seth: That's a great, that's a great-

David: This whole time

Seth: ... like, yes.

David: [laughs]

Seth: Mid-century modern.

David: Yes, exactly. [laughs]

Seth: [laughs]

David: Paul wrote to Mr. Gatsby.

Seth: That's right.

David: Okay.

Seth: Um, yes, and it's becomes, because of this wealth, a great place for people from all over the empire to immigrate.

David: Mm.

Seth: And so with that comes a whole bunch of religion, right?

David: Oh, yeah.

Seth: It's an incredibly religiously diverse place. A Roman historian named Pausanias, he mentions 26 different temples and holy places just in the city of Corinth.

David: Oh, my gosh.

Seth: And then, that, he doesn't even mention the Jewish synagogue-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... which there were Jewish synagogues.

David: Which, which, like, that might sound somewhat normal to us-

Seth: Yes

David: ... because we, like, uh, at least in America-

Seth: Yes. Yeah, yeah

David: ... 'cause we are kind of a melting pot.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But man, back then, it, religion was v- hyperlocalized-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and geographic.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And so to have this kind of plurality-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... is very strange.

Seth: Right. It is, it is, it's, it is fairly strange-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... or at least, and it was a point of pride for the Corinthians.

David: Totally.

Seth: So alongside this was also, like, Pagan philosophy-

David: Mm, mm.

Seth: The phil- it was, like, the thinking center, uh, or, like, some sort of, like, intellectual center as well.

David: Okay.

Seth: So alongside religion, you have philosophers from Plato and Aristotle and Greek and-

David: All these different influences

Seth: ... Romans. Like, they're all, like, thinking together, and then alongside the religion and the philosophy is, like, vice. So alongside of it being, like, New York-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... early times New York, which is also pretty known for its vice-

David: Yes

Seth: ... you also got a lot of sex stuff happening-

David: Yes

Seth: ... in Corinth. Before Corinth was destroyed, an ancient playwright actually came up with a word to describe fornication.

David: Oh, no.

Seth: And it was just the word, "to be a Corinthian." [laughs]

David: [laughs] It was corinthiazso.

Seth: If you wanted to, like... You could, like, go, if you wanted to, like, cheat on your wife, you would corian- corian, uh, corinthiazso her.

David: Corinthiazso. [laughs]

Seth: Yeah. [laughs]

David: Oh, man.

Seth: So that, so that was before, but it's like, that's part of the city's vibe.

David: Oh, yeah.

Seth: And apparently-

David: That's right. It's like, it's like, "Hey, go to Vegas."

Seth: You... Yeah, that's right.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Sin City.

David: Yeah.

Seth: That's right.

David: Yeah, go to Vegas.

Seth: Go to Vegas.

David: Yeah.

Seth: There's... And then this, this got weird. I was like, there's-

David: This guy's living like he's in Vegas.

Seth: Yeah.

David: You like that? Okay, yeah.

Seth: Yeah, that's right.

David: I'm getting the vibe. Okay.

Seth: There's actually ancient pottery that proves this point, too.

David: Oh, gosh.

Seth: So apparently, um, you could go to the temple to ask for h- healing for various diseases, right?

David: Okay.

Seth: But the way that you would do so is you would etch your disease on a piece of pottery.

David: Okay.

Seth: And then you would bring it to the gods, and they would, you know, pay the money, and they would heal that... They would shatter the pottery or whatever, and they-

David: Okay. Yeah.

Seth: So-

David: Cool symbolism.

Seth: Right, but, like, um, just a whole bunch of venereal diseases in all these, like, ancient-

David: Oh, so there's all these- [laughs]

Seth: Yeah

David: ... interesting images etched onto pottery. [laughs]

Seth: That are just buried all over the Corinthia, uh, isthmus. [laughs]

David: I would have loved to be present for that archaeological dig, where they just keep digging up-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... this, like, slightly pornographic pottery. [laughs]

Seth: Yeah. [laughs]

David: And it's like, "Where am I right now?

Seth: Right.

David: What happened here?" [laughs]

Seth: Yeah. [laughs]

David: That's ridiculous.

Seth: That's right. So I hope you're getting the picture of, like-

David: I'm, I'm getting the picture

Seth: ... New York, Sin City, Las Vegas-

David: That's right

Seth: ... new money.

David: Okay.

Seth: Maybe Beverly Hills, Los Angeles.

David: Yeah.

Seth: You've got, like, this intense-

David: No offense to any people who live in these cities. [laughs]

Seth: No offense. I've got... I know people who live, I think, in all those places.

David: Yes.

Seth: So that is Corinth.

David: Yes, okay.

Seth: And so that obviously has the, like, pretty important impacts for the church-

David: Yes

Seth: ... i- in and of itself.

David: So w- was the church in Corinth corinthiazsoing?

Seth: Uh, they were. [laughs] They, they were. Paul has a couple chapters about that.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Um, but, uh-

David: I... You don't have to answer that question right now. I just wanted to say it. [laughs]

Seth: [laughs] Great.

David: I was just really excited to use the verb again.

Seth: You can use it as often as you'd like, David. [laughs]

David: Great. Great, thanks. [laughs]

Seth: Uh, so what we know about the church is that it kind of had imported a lot of the city into its assumptions about Christianity.

David: Mm, okay.

Seth: So on maybe the more, like, um, benign side, Paul mentions just how diverse the church is.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: So in chapter 12, uh, verse 13, he talks about how Cor- Corinth is full, the church at Corinth is full of Jews and Greeks and slave people and free people. At the end of his letter, he mentions, like, Latin-named Jews. He mentions Greeks. He mentions wealthy families.

David: Mm.

Seth: And then in chapter 1, verse 26, he says this, so alongside these really wealthy families, this incredible diversity, "Brothers, not many of you were wise according to the world's standards. Not many were powerful. Not many were of noble birth."... So there's also, like, a pretty wide range of socioeconomic diversity-

David: Yeah

Seth: -within the church, which would've reflected the city-

David: Yes

Seth: ... uh, itself. Also, in 1 Corinthians 7 says their church is made up of a ton of single people, a lot of widows and widowers, a lot of married families. So it's just like-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... a thriving, metropolitan, diverse place, which would've been a snapshot of the city.

David: Right.

Seth: So, like, that's benign, [chuckles] though.

David: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

Seth: But you're getting the picture that the Church of Corinth might be inheriting some of the idol- idolatrous practices and just the vibe-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... of Corinth.

David: It's like when you got so many people from different backgrounds coming into-

Seth: That's right

David: ... the same place, they're gonna have different perspectives, different histories, different, uh, like, life experiences.

Seth: Yes.

David: And as they hear the gospel, and they learn-

Seth: Mm

David: ... about the, the, the Jewish scriptures, and they learn about the Messiah-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... they're gonna all import all of that through their own filters-

Seth: That's right

David: ... and it's gonna create some interesting ideas, I'd assume.

Seth: That's right. They are fairly diverse, however, they almost all seem to be pagan, too.

David: Mm.

Seth: So when-

David: And define pagan in this context.

Seth: So, um, pagan would've meant just not Jewish. [chuckles]

David: Okay.

Seth: Not-

David: So yeah, these are Gentile-

Seth: So while there are some Jews-

David: Yeah, yeah, yeah

Seth: ... the primary bent of the congregation is one of paganism.

David: Okay.

Seth: And so he mentions this three different times within the whole letters, like, "Such were some of you, practicing i-," like, doing all this crazy stuff-

David: Yeah, yeah, yeah

Seth: ... that is most likely a product of Corinthian or Greek culture more than-

David: Right

Seth: ... Jewish culture.

David: So they weren't just a part... Like, they, they didn't just live in Corinth-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... they were etching stuff on pottery, too. And- [chuckles]

Seth: Or at least they used to be.

David: Or they used to be.

Seth: He, he-

David: Yeah, yeah

Seth: ... he says that, "Such were some of you."

David: Such were some of you.

Seth: Such were some of you.

David: Like, you guys-

Seth: Yes

David: ... used to go to these Greek temples, you used to worship Roman gods.

Seth: Yes.

David: Yeah, okay.

Seth: Yeah, here's how Paul says it in chapter 6, verse 9: "Um, neither the sexually immoral, nor the idolaters, nor the adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the Kingdom of God. And such were some of you."

David: Mm.

Seth: "But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and by the Spirit of our God." So these are people who lived hard in Vegas-

David: Yes

Seth: ... and have become Christians.

David: Which, no- okay, two things are happening here-

Seth: Yes

David: ... that's really cool. One is, um, we're getting some good background information on the makeup of this church. You know, this is the introduction to, to Corinthians-

Seth: Yes, yes, yes

David: ... I get that. But it's also, like, I love that he's describing the makeup of a Christian church.

Seth: Yes!

David: He's like, "This is who can come to church. This is who can be part of a church."

Seth: Yes.

David: And like, read the list again. [chuckles]

Seth: Yes.

David: It's like, you know, sexually immoral, uh, drunkards, the greedy-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... like, all these people, and it's like, "Yeah, that's who goes to church." [chuckles]

Seth: Yeah, in the first verses, he calls them saints.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Verse... He says, "To the Church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, together with all those, who in every place, call upon the name of-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... the Lord Jesus Christ."

David: Yeah, and I love that, uh, like, this is who they were-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and, like, now they're called to be saints. And we haven't quite gotten into what, what is going on-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... from a moral standpoint in the church in Corinth. But-

Seth: But

David: ... Paul's not saying... He didn't write this letter to say, "Nevermind, you're not called anymore.

Seth: Right.

David: You're too bad. Clearly, you're not actually saved."

Seth: Yeah.

David: It's like-

Seth: That's right

David: ... it's amazing.

Seth: So even though this- that's who they were-

David: Right

Seth: ... they end up doing a lot of the same things. So Paul points out, "You're going and worshiping demons."

David: Mm.

Seth: "You have a really low view of marriage. You're arguing for your right to visit prostitutes."

David: Gosh.

Seth: "You're going to c- you're s- predatorily suing your brothers and sister in Christ, and you're denying the bodily resurrection."

David: Oh, that one's bad, too.

Seth: That one's bad, but, like, uh, but he's still calling them saints and believers-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... which is fascinating.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Uh, one commentator I read, uh, his name is Gordon Fee, and he said this about, about Corinth. He said, "Although they were the Christian church in Corinth, an inordinate amount of Corinth was yet in them-

David: Mm

Seth: ... emerging in a number of attitudes and behaviors that require radical surgery without killing the patient." That's what this letter is attempting to do.

David: You can take the church out of Corinth, but you can't- [chuckles]

Seth: [laughs]

David: ... take the Corinth out of church.

Seth: Yeah. At least, that's what Paul wants to do.

David: [laughs] Yeah, yeah.

Seth: He wants to get the surgeon's scalpel in there-

David: That's right

Seth: ... and get- [laughs]

David: Let's get, let's get Corinth out of this church.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah, that's cool. He's gonna un-Corinthotso them.

Seth: Yeah, yep, yeah. [laughs]

David: [chuckles] You really love that word.

Seth: I really love that.

David: You really love that word.

Seth: I'm a big fan. [chuckles]

David: Okay, so I'm getting a picture of the church.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Um, is there anything else, like, going on that we know, kind of behind the text, of like in Corinth-

Seth: Yes

David: ... that Paul's addressing? Okay.

Seth: Yeah, so let's start in Acts 18. So-

David: Yeah, sure.

Seth: Which-

David: Let's do that. [chuckles]

Seth: Because i- the church at Corinth was planted by Paul-

David: Oh, okay

Seth: ... and that story is recorded-

David: Okay [chuckles]

Seth: ... in Acts 18.

David: All right. [chuckles]

Seth: Uh, and, and we- what we learn is that, you know, he's there for a year and a half-

David: Okay

Seth: ... preaching and teaching in the synagogue, and in the house of a, presumably a pagan man, or once a pagan man, named T- Titus Justus, and he does this for a year and a half. However, his time in Corinth is like quick- quickly comes to an end when the Jewish establishment basically causes a, at least one riot-

David: Mm

Seth: ... and forces him out of town. So Paul starts this church, spends a year and a half, um, in Corinth, and presumably all around the, the second island of Achaia.

David: Mm.

Seth: So I told you that there's the mainland, there's this isthmus, and the, the Achaia-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... is this whole region. And 2 Corinthians 1 actually begins, "To the church at Corinth and in Achaia."

David: Okay, yeah.

Seth: So the i- so maybe the idea when we say the church in Corinth, you should also have in mind, like, not simply one physical location-

David: Yes

Seth: ... where all the believers in Corinth are gathered, but a network of home churches-

David: Mm, mm

Seth: ... throughout a large region-

David: I see

Seth: ... like a whole island, like-

David: That's helpful

Seth: ... a large island.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So, uh, Paul spends a year and a half, either in Corinth or traveling around Achaia, has his base of operations in Corinth-

David: Mm

Seth: ... and is kicked out by the Jewish establishment, and then he spends three years away from Corinth. And during that three years-... Paul starts hearing some stuff.

David: [sniffs] Oh, no.

Seth: Yeah, and this is where we get to where is Corinth now?

David: Okay.

Seth: So three different times in the letter, uh, Paul mentions some of the concerning reports that he got about Corinth in that three years since he planted the church-

David: Oh, man

Seth: ... and he was kicked out. He says, uh, in chapter 1, verse 11, he says, "My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you." And then 1 Corinthians 5:1, he says this: "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of the kinds that even pagans do not tolerate, a man sleeping with his father's wife."

David: Yikes.

Seth: So yeah, so, like, i- incest. Yeah, it's like-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... yeah, and you're bragging about it, and I've heard a report about it. So here's this report, and then he hears another report in 1 Corinthians 11, or maybe per- perhaps the, the same one or a number of reports. "I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you." And then he goes on to describe how whenever the church comes together and they celebrate communion-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... they celebrate as a big meal, and the poor people leave hungry while the rich people leave drunk.

David: Hmm.

Seth: And so he's like, "This is a bad division-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... and it's happening along socioeconomic lines." So Paul, over the course of that three years, has heard of these things happening.

David: Hmm.

Seth: So Paul actually sends a letter to Corinth that we don't have.

David: Right.

Seth: This is the 1 Corinthians we have, but not the first letter that Paul-

David: Hmm

Seth: ... sends to Corinth. And he actually mentions the fact that he sent them a letter. In chapter 5, he says, "I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people." [chuckles] So-

David: Ah, yeah.

Seth: So he has written to them previously.

David: That's really helpful. I, I was, I was... I knew there was something weird about the Corinthian lettering-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... numbers.

Seth: Yes.

David: But I thought we... I thought it was, like, 1 Corinthians, that we didn't have 2 Corinthians, and our 2 Corinthians is really 3 Corinthians.

Seth: Yeah, there's, like, five correspondences-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... between the two of them.

David: But, like, there's a whole bunch going on here.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So there was a letter already sent.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And he's like, "I gotta do a follow-up."

Seth: Yep.

David: And that's maybe 1 Corinthians.

Seth: That's right.

David: And then I think there was another letter he's gonna send after this one?

Seth: So yeah. So what happens is he sends them a letter saying, "Hey, you can't be doing this stuff with sexually immoral people."

David: Yeah.

Seth: And he's probably... Based on what we see in the letter, he's probably addressing some idolatry issues there, too. And what happens then is that Corinth writes their own letter back to Paul.

David: Hmm.

Seth: And presumably what they're doing is they're disagreeing with Paul's ethical commands, they're questioning his authority to dictate their behavior, and they defend their sexual and idolatrous practices.

David: Oh, gosh.

Seth: So Paul writes another letter, which is 1 Corinthians. So-

David: Okay

Seth: ... 1 Corinthians is the response to their response.

David: I see.

Seth: Paul said, "Hey, you can't be doing this." They say, "We have every right to." And Paul writes 1 Corinthians as a way to fight back.

David: I see. 1 Corinthians is a response to a letter.

Seth: That's right.

David: That's helpful-

Seth: Yes

David: ... because sometimes when I read it, it feels like he jumps subject so quickly. But whenever I reply to an email-

Seth: That's right

David: ... I do the same thing, and it's like, "Oh, here, here's the three things they've asked me in this email," and I go, "Yep, this, this, and this."

Seth: That's right.

David: And there's no connective tissue really between them-

Seth: Yes

David: ... but I have the other letter-

Seth: That's right

David: ... and so it makes sense why I'm jumping between topics.

Seth: That's right.

David: That's really helpful. Okay.

Seth: I think an assumption that the Corinthians have is that Paul no longer has authority over them.

David: Hmm.

Seth: And so Paul, throughout his letter, is trying to not only convince them that he truly is... He's the father in the faith. He helped plant their church.

David: Yeah.

Seth: He's an apostle of God.

David: Yes.

Seth: But he has authority to speak into their life, but he also has to, like, reassert his authority in a way-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... that doesn't feel authoritarian.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Especially because one of his primary and most favorite metaphors for being an apostle is a slave.

David: Yeah.

Seth: He- so he's like, "How do I assert my authority within the metaphor of slave-

David: Hmm

Seth: ... and servant?" So he does that throughout the letter.

David: That's fascinating.

Seth: Um-

David: Which he's gonna triple down on in 2 Corinthians.

Seth: He really does.

David: Yes.

Seth: He really does. And so anyway, so that's kinda like the background.

David: Okay. [clears throat]

Seth: And then what you should know then is that 1 Corinthians is hot. Like, rhetorically, Paul is, like, intense-

David: Hmm

Seth: ... and very combative. So it's full of sarcasm, it's full of irony, [chuckles] and he, like, he uses all these rhetorical phrases like... Oh, well, let me give you a couple examples. Let's- they're really fun.

David: Okay.

Seth: So at one point in time, he says, "Do you not know you're a temple of the Holy Spirit?"

David: Right.

Seth: Like, the Holy Spirit lives inside of you. He's like, "These are, like, basic understanding-"

David: Right

Seth: ... "things that you-"

David: "You didn't, you didn't know that?"

Seth: "You didn't know that? [chuckles] Seriously? Or seriously, guys, you didn't know that?" Uh, twice, he tells them that he's specifically writing to shame them.

David: Oh! [chuckles]

Seth: Yeah, he says in, uh, [chuckles] in 1 Corinthians- [laughing]

David: I'm gonna start my next sermon that way.

Seth: I'm doing this-

David: "I'm, I'm, I'm gonna present this sermon to shame you."

Seth: In 1 Corinthians 6:5, he says, uh, he says, "I say this to your shame."

David: Oh, man.

Seth: And then in 1 Corinthians 15:34, when he's addressing people who are denying bodily resurrection of believers, he says, "I say that to your shame."

David: Hmm.

Seth: "I say that to your shame."

David: And then what does he mean by that? He's trying to, he's trying to get them to feel shame about something they're being shameless in?

Seth: Hmm. I think that's part of it, yeah. It's like he wants them to feel the appropriate shame-

David: Right

Seth: ... over their behaviors and beliefs that are out of sync with-

David: Yeah, it's like, oh, they're doing these things. They think they're in the dark, and they just don't feel bad about it. And he's like, "I'm gonna bring it to the light-

Seth: Well, yes

David: ... so that you'll feel that?"

Seth: And throughout the letter, Paul will make reference to their arrogance-

David: Hmm

Seth: ... their boasting, and their pride. We haven't really talked about it yet, but in 1 Corinthians 5, where he starts talking about this issue with a man, uh, sleeping with his mother-in-law-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... he says, "The Corinthians are boasting about it-

David: Hmm

Seth: ... as if this is-"... an example of the liberty they have in Christ.

David: Oh.

Seth: And throughout the book of Corinthians, there'll be these moments where Paul quotes presumably their letter-

David: Right

Seth: ... back to him. Yeah, let me find for you a place where he seems to be quoting their, like, pride and arrogance over their behavior. In chapter six, verse 12, he says... He, he quotes them. He says, "You keep saying, 'All things are lawful for me.' But I say, not all things are helpful. And then you say, 'Food in my body doesn't mean anything.' But I tell you, your body means something."

David: Mm.

Seth: So I'm somewhat paraphrasing there.

David: Yeah, yeah.

Seth: But the point is, the reason shame is an appropriate thing he's trying to elicit-

David: Mm

Seth: ... is because they are shameless-

David: Yes

Seth: ... in-

David: In shameful deeds

Seth: ... in shameful deeds.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Which, by the way, as I'm thinking about this, I said, uh, a man is sleeping with his mother-in-law.

David: Uh-huh.

Seth: I meant to say, uh, stepmother. [chuckles]

David: Oh, yeah.

Seth: Different relationship. [chuckles]

David: I, I'm so bad at family tree stuff.

Seth: I am really bad.

David: I get so confused.

Seth: I am really bad at it.

David: I once tried to figure out what it meant to be, like, once or twice removed.

Seth: Oh, yeah. I still don't-

David: And, like, yeah.

Seth: I still don't understand that. [chuckles]

David: It left my brain immediately as I learned it.

Seth: [chuckles]

David: Uh, yeah, okay, so I see. So they're, they're... They wrote a letter in which they're saying things like, "Hey, we can do whatever we want, 'cause all things are lawful for us. We're free in Christ."

Seth: That's right.

David: Uh, and, you know, hey, you know, like, Jesus taught that, you know, whatever a man eats, he just expels out, and it doesn't make him unclean.

Seth: That's right.

David: So like, "Hey, food for the stomach, the stomach for food."

Seth: That's right.

David: "No big deal."

Seth: That's right.

David: And, like, they're, they're having this in, like, very, very liber- like, liberty movement-

Seth: Mm. That's right

David: ... inside their church, and he's like, "Yeah, but you can't use that liberty in Christ to commit shameful, sinful-

Seth: Right

David: ... harmful deeds."

Seth: And so part of Paul's tactic there is to make them feel true, godly shame-

David: Yes

Seth: ... in their shamelessness.

David: Yeah. Okay, that makes sense?

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yep.

Seth: So and then-

David: So he's being combative is kind of the point you were making earlier.

Seth: That's right.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Yeah, that, that's kind of the point, and then he does this in a whole bunch of other ways.

David: Mm.

Seth: But I think the point has been made.

David: Yes, definitely. Okay.

Seth: So-

David: It's helpful just to have that in my mind as I go in and read this letter, 'cause I think [chuckles] I think it's really easy for a lot of us when we read the Bible to have one tone of voice in our head.

Seth: That's right.

David: When we come to the Bible, it's like, "Let me put on my Bible voice in my head."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And it's like, you know, you open it up, and it's like, "Paul, called by the will of God-

Seth: [laughing]

David: ... to be an apo..." And it's like, [chuckles] no, no-

Seth: [chuckles]

David: ... this is a combative-

Seth: Yeah,

David: ... like, letter that's in response to another letter, trying to get you to wake up and feel-

Seth: That's right

David: ... all the bad that's going on in-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... your church. Like, you can do better.

Seth: One thing that he do- uh, one thing that he kind of attacks in th- three distinct movements throughout the letter, the so-called wisdom of the Corinthians-

David: Mm

Seth: ... the so-called knowledge of the Corinthians, and the so-called spirituality of the Corinthians.

David: Mm.

Seth: And so he kinda seems to understand those three buckets of wisdom, knowledge, and spirituality, and so that they're boasting in-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... and have an incorrect understanding of, that he's come to, like, "Hey, I'm gonna teach you correctly on these things."

David: Okay. And i- that, that so-called wisdom, is that that sarcasm you were talking about?

Seth: Yes.

David: Like-

Seth: Here, let me give you an example.

David: I see.

Seth: "If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become fools, so that you actually can become wise."

David: Mm.

Seth: That's 1 Corinthians 3:28. And 1 Corinthians 8:2, he says, "Those who think they know something don't know what they ought to know." [chuckles]

David: Yeah.

Seth: Uh, and then 1 Corinthians 14 is, uh, "If anyone thinks they're spiritual, let them acknowledge what I'm writing is the Lord's command."

David: Yeah.

Seth: "You keep boasting about your spirituality, but you're rejecting the man who brought you to saving faith." [chuckles]

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: "That's not spiritual."

David: Yeah.

Seth: Uh, so he's just poking them in their pride-

David: I see

Seth: ... kind of constantly with sarcasm, irony.

David: Yeah, and so they've got this so-called wisdom-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... this so-called spirituality, and I'm guessing that is being imported from a lot of this pagan culture.

Seth: That's right.

David: This, this mixing, melting pot they have, where it's like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... "Oh, we've got a lot of great ways to access the divine. We have the best philosophy. We have the best-

Seth: Mm

David: ... rhetoricians and debaters, and-

Seth: That's right

David: ... we know what's right here in Corinth."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "So thanks, Paul, for giving us some more information-

Seth: Right

David: ... but we'll take it from here."

Seth: That's right.

David: Yeah, that makes sense.

Seth: Yeah. Yeah, and they... The first four chapters really kind of, like, go after a lot of that pride and rhetorical skill-

David: Yes

Seth: ... and the wisdom of Corinth. Uh, and he's, like, saying, "Hey, you've forgotten the most basic thing-

David: Mm

Seth: ... the Gospel, that Jesus Christ has died for you."

David: Yeah.

Seth: Uh, yeah.

David: Which is interesting, 'cause it's like, I, I, I think that's just from a... I know he talks about... Is, is, is, is 1 Corinthians where he says, like, "I w- I, like, want to know nothing but Christ-

Seth: Yes

David: ... and him crucified"?

Seth: Yes, that's right.

David: And so it's just interesting to think about, um, a metropolitan city, a, a Gatsby lifestyle-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... you know, the fast-paced New York hustle and bustle, and how quickly we move past a simple truth.

Seth: Yeah.

David: You know, the most profound and fundamental thing, that Jesus Christ died and rose.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And it's like, I'm, I'm not... I, I, we can't move past that, guys. I know you had-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... a lot of fancy preachers over there-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and a lot of really great teaching, and you're super smart-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... but you gotta vow to know nothing but Christ and him crucified.

Seth: Yeah.

David: 'Cause if you don't, look what happens. [chuckles]

Seth: Yeah. [gentle music] 1 Corinthians, uh, chapter 1 says this. He says, "I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. For it's been reported to me that there are divisions among you." I mentioned this verse before.

David: Mm.

Seth: He says, "What I mean is this, that each one of you says, 'Well, I belong... I follow Paul,' or, 'I follow Apollos,' or, 'I follow Cephas or Peter,' and, 'I follow Jesus.' But this is not the way that it should be."

David: Yeah.

Seth: And the implication here is what he's saying is, like, "You have become so enamored with the rhetorical skill of preachers like me or Apollos or Peter, that you've just kind of abandoned the more basic, fundamental thing about what, about which we are preaching-

David: Mm

Seth: ... Jesus Christ and him crucified."... and you've adopted your cultural- your culture's emphasis on showy displays-

David: Yes.

Seth: Uh-

David: Right

Seth: ... power, or showy displays of intelligence, when the gospel's calling us to showy displays of, like, humiliation-

David: Yes, slavery-

Seth: Slavery

David: ... humility. Yeah.

Seth: Foolishness-

David: Gosh

Seth: ... in order to achieve power.

David: Yeah.

Seth: It's like, that's, isn't, isn't that what Corinthians want anyway?

David: Yeah. [chuckles]

Seth: Isn't that, isn't that the hope of coming to new Corinth?

David: Yeah.

Seth: Is that, to receive-

David: Power

Seth: ... power-

David: Riches, wisdom-

Seth: Yeah.

David: All that's in Jesus.

Seth: That's all that's in Jesus.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Yeah.

David: That's good. Man, that is just such an... This passage is always just so hot for me.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Uh, 'cause it's like, man, it just, it's, like, got a laser focus on, especially the American Church-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... where it's like, "Hey, w- I, I..." You, you ask, like, "Oh, why do you go to that church?" "Oh, the preacher's just so good."

Seth: Yeah.

David: And it's like, well, we, we're both preachers. Like, we get it. We like preaching.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But like, man, it's a, it's a little too much [chuckles] It's a lot too much right now.

Seth: Yeah, and I feel it even as, like, a, a podcaster.

David: Sure, yeah. [chuckles]

Seth: It's like, "I, well, I really like-

David: Their podcast

Seth: ... Yeah, their podcast."

David: Yeah.

Seth: And, um, which is why we make, try to make it all about Jesus.

David: That's right. [laughing]

Seth: [laughing] Uh-

David: Oh, gosh

Seth: ... regardless of how rhetorically skilled we might be, at least we, at least hopefully we're talking about Jesus. [chuckles]

David: Hopefully we're talking about Jesus. That's good. Okay, what else do we need to know as we approach this letter?

Seth: Yeah, I think that's like, on a background level-

David: Yep

Seth: ... that's what we need to c- take in to this letter.

David: Okay.

Seth: You're caught up-

David: Okay

Seth: ... and you're ready to begin reading.

David: Awesome.

Seth: Um, so what question do you have about the book of First Corinthians, uh, more generally?

David: Oh, man, I don't know if I have any just off the top of my head. I feel like I've got a way better view of everything going on. Um, I'm still kind of reeling, though.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, if I'm being meditative now and moving-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... into that space, I'm still kind of reeling from that passage you read, that vice list-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... of Paul.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Where he's like, "Hey, you guys all used to be..." And then this long list of, I think especially if you honed in on it, a lot of groups that w- we would say today just, oh, aren't welcome in the church.

Seth: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

David: And I just am kind of hit pretty strong by Paul saying, "This is the makeup of the church."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "It's the sinners."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "It's the immoral. It's..." And it's like, 'cause that's just who we all were.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, no one falls outside of that vice list. We all have that history and proclivity toward-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... just deep depravity, and-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... um, and he keeps writing to them, even after they clap back with, like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... "No, we can do whatever we want." He's like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... "No, no, no. Like, Jesus still loves you.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Love keeps no record of wrong." It's like he just keeps pursuing them with the gospel-

Seth: Yes

David: ... and as a, as a humble servant of Jesus, showing them that Jesus hasn't abandoned them.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, Jesus hasn't said, "Oh, you're right. You know what? You are just this sin and this vice-

Seth: Mm

David: ... and this past." He's like, "No, you are saints."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "This is who you're called to be, and this is who you will be."

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, I'm just, like, amazed at that-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... scandalous grace.

Seth: Yeah. He, m- multiple times throughout this letter, Paul will talk about the Corinthians, uh, as his, like, letter of recommendation-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... or as proof that the message of the gospel is powerful.

David: Yep.

Seth: It's like they are walking proofs, even in their imperfect follow- very imperfect following of Jesus-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... that the gospel is not a gospel of words. It's a gospel of power.

David: Mm.

Seth: And it's like, your rhetoricians, your philosophers, like, they can't do this.

David: Right.

Seth: They can't take sexually immoral people and make them pure.

David: Right.

Seth: And that's what God has done-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... in you. Uh, so act like that. Be that.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Be what God has made you and called you to be. Yeah.

David: Mm, that's so good. Uh, I think you also mentioned, and I don't know if this is something we're gonna address in the next episode, but you also mentioned, uh, not only that they have this immorality going on-

Seth: Mm

David: ... and this division going on, but there was also some false teaching going on-

Seth: Mm

David: ... or false doctrine. I think you-

Seth: Yes

David: ... slipped it in one time about, like-

Seth: Yes

David: ... something about denying the bodily resurrection or something.

Seth: Yes.

David: I'm like, what's... Uh, that's the last question mark I had.

Seth: So this will segue perfectly into a cliffhanger, into, then into our next episode.

David: Perfect. Can't wait. [chuckles]

Seth: So glad I could set you up for that, alley-oop.

David: [laughing] So what seems to be happening is that in Paul's absence, the leadership on the ground has just been slowly drifting to more Greek-ish ways of thinking, more pagan ways-

Seth: Mm

David: ... of interpreting and understanding and applying the story of the gospel. And one of those distortions is a denial of the future bodily resurrection of believers.

Seth: Mm.

David: Um, and this is probably informed by some, either a misunderstanding of the teachings of Jesus, or by dualism, like, this, like, philosophical dualism that just runs in the water of most Greek and Roman people at the time. And so, like, dualism basically, on a very, very simplified level, just says, "Hey, the body is of little importance compared to spiritual reality."

Seth: Yeah.

David: "And so as we live as good Christians, what we should grab a hold on is spiritual things, wise things, intelligent things, things that are not tied to our fleshly bodies."

Seth: And therefore, what we do with our fleshly bodies just isn't really that important.

David: Doesn't matter. And so it seems that the local pastors on the ground, the local leaders on the ground, in Paul's absence, have just been continuing to erode the goodness of the body and continue to discount the bodily, the bodily resurrection of believers.

Seth: Mm.

David: And it's led to this weird situation where people, in one moment, will be saying, "Hey, um, we shouldn't have sex with our wives."

Seth: ... because that is impure and would taint our spiritual practices. However, we can still sleep with prostitutes if we want to, because our bodies, it doesn't matter.

David: Yes.

Seth: Our bodies don't matter.

David: I get it. Yeah, it- there's this, there's this, like, i- if we can live this kind of esoteric, um, holier-than-thou kind of lifestyle-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and we can think the right thoughts, have the right wisdom, and even do these kind of strange, very s- hyper spiritual practices-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... like, "Hey, you know what? Actually, me and my wife are being abstinent right now from each other."

Seth: Yeah.

David: Uh, well, why? "Oh, because there's this very holy-

Seth: Right

David: ... you know, wise, super spiritual thing that we can do." Uh, and it's like, "Yeah, I'm check mark. I'm good over here." "Cool, I'm gonna go get drunk and sleep with a prostitute." Wait-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... how do those work? It's because that, it's that dualism.

Seth: Yes.

David: And it's like, "Well, I'm actually being extremely spiritual, and what I do with, like, this physical side of things just doesn't... It just doesn't matter, 'cause I'm actually just such a great person."

Seth: Yeah.

David: And, and I'm, I'm so interested in that-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... because that is pervasive-

Seth: It is

David: ... today. [chuckles]

Seth: Uh, the idea that the mind, the, the life of the mind is the most important thing-

David: Yes

Seth: ... I, I think the weirdest way to s- talk about this is the movie Freaky Friday. [laughing]

David: [laughing] I was not ready for that! Wait, which version?

Seth: Uh, both of them. The i-

David: The Lindsay Lohan one?

Seth: The Lindsay Lohan one. The canon. No, canon's like the one that Disney did in the '60s.

David: That's right.

Seth: Um, the um, the idea that you can swap bodies-

David: Mm.

Seth: Underneath that is the assumption that what's most important about-

David: Is the mind

Seth: ... is the mind.

David: Huh.

Seth: And your mind can swap the bodies. That, that, the body's immaterial.

David: Oh, that's fascinating.

Seth: Right? So we had that underlying assumptions for decades, and decades, and decades-

David: Mm

Seth: ... in, like, the American West, where you, "Oh, yeah, more important than the body-

David: Mm

Seth: ... more, like, more changeable than the body is the mind."

David: Well, that makes sense-

Seth: Or-

David: ... too. When you ask, I think, a lot of just Christians, like, you know, every everyday person, it- when you- when they think about the afterlife-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... it's a disembodied mind, a spirit.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And, and it's not resurrection, bodies, physicality, new heavens, new earth, like-

Seth: That's right

David: ... tactile things.

Seth: Yes.

David: Uh, and so we do tend that way. I, I also think we do the same thing, not only in, like, a theological way-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... where it's like we, we tend to value the mind over the body. We also do it with, uh, we allow a hyper-spiritualized and really robust theology and, and mental life to kind of just overshadow-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... the physical.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And it's like, "Man, I, I believe all the right things. I'm super involved in church. I, I, uh, I treat my wife well. I do-

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And so it's okay if I..." Da, da, da, da, da, fill in the blank-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... with the, you know-

Seth: Yeah, yeah

David: ... the vi- And it's like, "Because, I mean, I'm not hurting anybody."

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like-

Seth: Yeah.

David: And we, we just-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... we are still very dualist, and then ratchet that up one more level, and I think that's where a lot of spiritual, like, abuse stems from-

Seth: Mm

David: ... is you have these leaders who become so convinced that they are-

Seth: Mm

David: ... like, these super wise, you know-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... like, they've achieved such high levels-

Seth: Mm

David: ... of spirituality, philosophy, leaders-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... like, e- at, at that-

Seth: Right

David: ... they can then just kinda be like, "Well, I think I've kind of, I kinda deserve to sleep with my secretary."

Seth: Mm. Yeah.

David: It's-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... [chuckles] like, it's not...

Seth: Yeah.

David: And we, we do that. We do.

Seth: Yeah.

David: We divide our-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... our, like, thought and belief life-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... from our physical life, and it leads to all kinds of pain.

Seth: And the way, and the way that worked out in Corinth is, like, you have these godly leaders: Paul-

David: Yep

Seth: ... Apollos, and Peter.

David: Yep.

Seth: Like, these are godly, gospel-centered leaders. [chuckles]

David: Yeah, yeah.

Seth: Like, they are preaching the gospel of Jesus, and the way the people have approached them is not as servants of the resurrected Jesus, but as people that they can attach their, like, desires and preferences onto.

David: Right.

Seth: And in so, in so doing, it, they, it makes it easy for them to dismiss one or the other, and then find loopholes for their various behavioral abnor- abnormalities-

David: Yes

Seth: ... their little mini indiscretions-

David: Mm

Seth: ... and immoralities they wanna commit. It's like, "Well, I, I follow Paul, and, you know, he kinda disagrees on this issue over here, and let's debate the way that they're arguing about that one thing, and..." Or-

David: In order to string together a theology that just kinda works for a Corinthian life.

Seth: Yeah, and I think that's what's happening on the ground in Corinth.

David: God, that's close to home. [laughing]

Seth: [laughing] Yeah.

David: Man, that is close to home.

Seth: Which-

David: Woo!

Seth: ... and what's fascinating, I think, about all this, so how do you have this dualism in mind, you have this denial, and then with that, philosophically, it makes sense then to deny the Christian belief in a bodily resurrection of all believers.

David: Mm.

Seth: Right?

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like, that just, it makes sense. We can believe in Jesus' body being raised, 'cause that's a distinctly one-time event.

David: Okay.

Seth: Maybe it's a, maybe it's a blip in my bodily- my, my, uh, dualism, but, like, whatever.

David: Yeah.

Seth: I'm gonna deny the bodily resurrection. It's why Paul, at the end of his letter, spends it in one of the longest chapters in this entire letter-

David: Yes

Seth: ... just defending that one doctrine.

David: Chapter 15?

Seth: Chapter 15.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And then interestingly, as you read back through the letter, almost every single, like, imperative that he gives-

David: Mm

Seth: ... every single, like, ethical command that he gives, is grounded in some way in the future hope of a bodily resurrection.

David: Mm.

Seth: So, like, throughout the whole letter, like, he is continually pressing in to this, like, dualism and saying, "Hey, what's imp- your body's important. You will be raised on the last day. You will be one with Christ. You will rule people. This thing is real. Your dualism has diminished your imagination on your bodily resurrection to such an extent that you're failing to live in light of eternity."

David: Mm.

Seth: And so throughout the whole letter, Paul is just pushing for us to h- to have a increased sense of our future bodily resurrection, the second coming of Jesus, in such a way that it would tran- transform our behavior.

David: Wow. I'm really excited to dig into that more, because-

David: ... I'm like, man, there's good news for our bodies.

Seth: Yes.

David: There's good news for our physical world. There's good news for-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... our neighborhoods, and our communities, and how we treat one another. And the gospel and the way of Jesus-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... isn't a set of beliefs to be held in the mind.

Seth: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

David: It's, um, a way to live-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... that, like, transforms the world.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, that's really exciting. That- that's good news for the world.

Seth: Yeah. The- I'll just leave it on this-

David: Okay

Seth: ... then we can maybe shut it down. A- as he's responding to this, like, low view of the body, he says this, he says, "Your body is for the Lord, and the Lord for your body."

David: Oof, yeah.

Seth: What does that mean? [chuckles]

David: Yeah. [chuckles]

Seth: What?

David: God is for my body, and my body is for the Lord?

Seth: What-

David: Like, there's an-

Seth: [chuckles]

David: ... there's an intimate relationship there that I don't have categories for-

Seth: That's right [chuckles]

David: ... totally.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah, as a, as a, as a, as a dualist, in a sense- [chuckles]

Seth: Yeah, yeah

David: ... or somebody raised inside of-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... Platonic dualism.

Seth: Yeah, that's right.

David: That's fascinating. Well, so we get to talk more about that?

Seth: We get... That will be the whole topic of conversation next time. [chuckles]

David: Okay. Okay, great. Well, then I, I can't wait. Well, thank you, Seth, very much-

Seth: Yes

David: ... for walking us through this. Super helpful. Thanks to Christine and all her help in studying this book, and thank you all for listening and joining us. We cannot wait to continue this conversation about the bodily resurrection, and what that means for the implications of the gospel for our world, and our bodies, and our relationship with God. So join us next time as we continue our look at the book of First Corinthians. [chuckles]

Seth: See you, guys.

David: See you next time. [upbeat music]

Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel creates short films, devotionals, and podcasts like this one. Everything we make is free because of generous supporters like you. To see our resources, visit spokengospel.com or subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. See you next time. [upbeat music]

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Listen to the 1 Corinthians Overview: "New" Corinth, Freaky Friday, and Church Surgery podcast

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1 Corinthians Overview: Understanding Paul's Most Combative Letter to a Church Gone Astray

Show Notes

The Paradox of Corinth: Beautiful Theology Born from Messy Dysfunction

Ancient Corinth: New Money, Sin City, and the Melting Pot of the Empire

The Church at Corinth: Saints with Scandalous Pasts

Behind the Letter: Paul's History with Corinth and Their Combative Exchange

Paul's Rhetorical Strategy: Sarcasm, Shame, and Dismantling False Wisdom

The Root Problem: Greek Dualism and the Denial of Bodily Resurrection

Related Resources

Introduction to 1 Corinthians

View our devotional on 1 Corinthians 1-2

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