Intro: Welcome to the Spoken Gospel Podcast. Spoken Gospel is a ministry that's dedicated to speaking the gospel out of every corner of Scripture. In Luke 24, Jesus told his disciples that every part of the Bible was about him. So each week, hosts David and Seth work through a passage of scripture to see how it's all about Jesus and his good news. Let's jump in.
David: Well, welcome everyone to the Spoken Gospel Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. We are in 1 John. We've done the intro. Now we're diving in. Seth, how are you today?
Seth: I'm doing great. I feel a little overwhelmed in a great way by what's happening in 1 John. We were talking before we got on air about how different it feels to be in a New Testament book versus an Old Testament book. Yeah. And the Old Testament, it's like, how is this pointing forward to Jesus? And in the New Testament, it's What does it mean that Jesus has already come, that the history of Israel has been fulfilled, that the Messiah came? And now what? When there's not something to get— well, Jesus is coming back again, right? Like that redemptive thing that I keep exercising and seeing— Jesus happened, has happened.
David: Yes.
Seth: So what happens when the threats are new?
David: And it is interesting, like after all this time, in the Old Testament, like pointing forward to the Messiah, the Messiah, he's coming, there's a fulfillment, like there's incomplete, like themes, and then Jesus comes, and he completes everything, fulfills everything. And then we come to 1 John, and people are anti-Christ. Like they are, they're against the Christ, against the Christ, against the Messiah. Come on.
Seth: We spent all this time guys, trying to see how Jesus is in all scripture, and you're against him all of a sudden.
David: So it's like, yeah, but it's like, man, 1 John opens with one of the most just out of the gate beautiful prefaces to like any book, any letter in the New Testament.
Seth: And before we get there, I just want to put us in the mind space yet again of what's happening here. So we talked about the antichrists already, but what are the antichrists proclaiming? What are they fighting against? What are they doing in the people that 1 John— that John is writing to here? I think I think throughout these letters there is this undercurrent of doubt. We talked about this in the introduction podcast, uncertainty, and like a lack of assurance that they are in God, that God is in them. So how do they know they are in the Christ that the scriptures have been pointing to all this time? How do they know they are with the Lord? How do we know that God is actually close to us? By what measure do we know this?
David: Yeah.
Seth: And the Antichrist, I think, are trying to leverage that doubt and uncertainty for their own ends. They're getting their own following by leveraging and preying on the doubts of these believers. And they say, you don't know, but let me tell you how you do know that Jesus is with you, that God is with you. And they go on all these false teachings. So John is coming in trying to comfort them.
David: Yeah.
Seth: In their doubt, in their doubt, in their disbelief, in their uncertainty, in their lack of assurance. And also at the same time, fend off these people who are trying to take advantage of their doubt to their own ends.
David: Yes. Yeah, that's a good recap.
Seth: I like that.
David: If you want more on that and you're like, what? What's happening? We did an introduction podcast to this. 1 John introduction. Go back one episode, listen to that first, then come here. If you're like, wait, antichrists?
Seth: Antichrists?
David: Is it plural? Like we talked about that. So go back. Okay, so can I just like read the first 4 verses? Okay, so this is just the beginning of the letter. No salutation, no, "I, John, to you people in this specific church." It's the only book in the New Testament that begins this way. Except Hebrews.
Seth: Except Hebrews.
David: Hebrews 2. But, here we go. That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life. The life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you, the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us. That which we have seen and heard, we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us. And indeed, our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.
Seth: I mean, there's a little bit, like, there's like a little bit of things in there.
David: It's hard not to get excited.
Seth: It's hard to get excited. And there's like so much in there.
David: There's so much in there.
Seth: Um, I have many questions.
David: Oh, okay.
Seth: Right off at the beginning. Right. Um, who's we?
David: Yeah, that's a good question.
Seth: That which was from the beginning, which we, yeah, have heard.
David: I think we, we talked about this a little bit. Mm-hmm. In the, in the introduction podcast that this is, he's probably referring to the, uh, apostolic message, right?
Seth: So we are the collective apostles.
David: We who not only experienced Jesus on earth in his ministry, saw him perform miracles, heard his teaching, watched him die, visited his tomb, saw his resurrection, you know, like we were witnesses to it. We hung out with him. Uh, and then we were also explicitly gifted and sent by him as apostles, sent ones. We We're there. Yeah, we hung out with Jesus and now we have heard his message. We know what he's all about and we are now proclaiming him to you.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So like, I think that's the we is the apostles, the apostles, the people who hung out with them. Who else could have heard and seen with their eyes and touched with their hands like and commissioned by God? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's the apostles.
Seth: So, okay, so that's in the background. That's who's talking. And at the beginning, as you said, is kind of out of, out of the darkness of creation. That which was from the beginning.
David: Yes. Which is like classic John, right? I mean, he starts his gospel this way. In the beginning was the word. And like he's both here in his letter and in the gospel. Those both of those pieces of literature are pulling on obviously Genesis 1. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. He's pulling back to this eternity past, which is like a really hard concept for us to think about. Like we can only think about time-bound things. So it's like, well, when did eternity start? When, when did eternity past and eternity present begin? When does eternity future begin? None of those questions make sense.
Seth: John's just going all the way back to the beginning before we understand anything, right? And he's like, that thing that was back there.
David: Yes.
Seth: Is what I'm talking about.
David: That which was from the beginning, not that which had a beginning, not that which at one point in the past began, that which has always been. The eternal God.
Seth: You know what I think is funny about this, the way that he's building this argument? He's like, he doesn't name what he's saying. No, he just starts with that which was from the beginning. Well, well, what was from the beginning?
David: Oh, we heard it.
Seth: Well, what did you hear? Well, we saw it. Well, what did you see? We looked upon it. What'd you touch? What'd you, what'd you look upon? The word of life. What's the word of life? The life was made manifest.
David: What is the life? Yeah, it's so true.
Seth: It's like drawing me in.
David: It's also like, if you, you know, other times in in his letter, he'll talk about like, hey, fathers, you've known, you've known this God from the beginning. Yes.
Seth: He says that in 2:12.
David: Yeah. And so he's like, you know what I'm talking about? So it's like that which was from the beginning. Well, what else is there but God? Yes. So he's saying God has been heard and seen. And like, I think up to there you're like, okay, I'm cool with that. Yeah. God talked to people in the Old Testament, right? And some people even saw Moses, even like saw The back of God. The back of God. Okay, I'm with you. This is cool.
Seth: Or even the fire. I could see that. Somebody seeing that. I'm with you. Yeah.
David: And he said, and you touched it with your hands.
Seth: What?
David: Like, that is, that is next level. And then, yeah, like you said, and then he names it the Word of Life.
Seth: Why that?
David: Why what?
Seth: Why not Jesus?
David: Oh, right.
Seth: Why, why, why make this oblique kind of abstract reference to like the Word of Life? Rather than Jesus, that which was beginning Jesus. Yeah, he does the same thing in his open— in the beginning of his gospel.
David: Yes.
Seth: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God.
David: Yeah. I mean, I don't know what motivated John to do that, but I think it can be helpful to know that clearly he's aiming at something more than just like, I want you to know that I'm talking about the historical person Jesus 'From Nazareth.' Like, obviously he's talking about him. He'll name him. Yeah, yeah. But he's wanting to connect the Jesus who they touched, right, the physical historical person, with a kind of abstract, invisible concept, which is this word of life. It's not—
Seth: it is Jesus. Who was from the beginning? Jesus. Absolutely.
David: God.
Seth: But also, like, a message of— I mean, the gospel. Like, there's also this message of life, the word of life.
David: Yes. And like, and let's think about what is he pulling on? He's pulling on Genesis 1. What are the word— what's the word of life? What's life itself, right? In the beginning, God spoke and everything came to life, right? So he's talking about like, you know, that, that, that force, that God, that power, that voice that is at the root of all life, that Power, right? Life itself. Eternal life itself. We touched it. Yeah. Like, we, we, we ate with it. We heard from it. It's like, wait, what? And then it's like he's talking about life as like a personification of the historical person Jesus.
Seth: In, in John, the Gospel of John, through him all things were made, him being the Word.
David: Yes.
Seth: Without him nothing was made that's been made. In him was life. The Word has life in and of himself, in and of himself.
David: He is life.
Seth: And when the word speaks, when the word is sounded, life springs from the ground.
David: Yes. In John's Gospel, Jesus calls himself the life.
Seth: I am the light of the world. Yeah.
David: And the light.
Seth: I am the light.
David: But yeah, he says, I am the resurrection and the life. And so, yeah, it's amazing. It really is. And so, like, he's trying to get us to see that he's trying to build this category, right? Of life.
Seth: Um, is that when you say the category of life, I think we said it, I said it a second ago, it's like, that's the message of life.
David: Well, I mean, is, or is it bigger than like the proclamation of gospel?
Seth: Or is it like eternal life?
David: Like, right.
Seth: I think there's a lot of like, John is a fairly metaphorical person in his gospel. And so when he says the word of life, does he mean life in all that creative power? Does he mean the gospel that brings life, the message that brings life? Like, is it all of those things?
David: Yeah, well, it's like, it's clearly the word of life. And so, but, but he's saying that there is this category, right, of in the beginning there was life and that life was in God and spoke and created everything. And that life now has a message, right? And that message isn't just a word. Like it was through the mouths of prophets, that word has now been made manifest. Verse 2, that life, he says, was made manifest.
Seth: And we have seen it.
David: And we've seen it. And now here's his message, right? And so it was like that category of eternal life, God's eternal generative presence, you know, like has become flesh and has a message.
Seth: Super interesting. I think like From what little I do know about John the Gospel as well, the idea of the logos is like something within like a Greek mind of like referencing the Platonic ideal type of thing. Like he's pulling on like philosophical traditions. What I kind of like about the abstractness of like life as a force or a category is like it actually kind of gives me different ways to think about the gospel, uh, that I'm Nor like the word of life, the gospel of life, the gospel of eternal life. Nice Christian categories for all those things, right? Like the idea of life being a thing in of itself and that life as a category, as a, as a message, right? That feels really almost new agey. Like, you know, like, yeah, but it's like, it's give me a different like spin on something I'm really used to hearing a lot of.
David: Well, I think John's going to do that a couple of times in this opening.
Seth: Okay.
David: Um, and so So, okay, so he has this— this life was made manifest. So he's referring to the incarnation here.
Seth: It became Jesus.
David: Yeah. The life.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Was born as a human. Jesus. We saw it. And now we testify to it. We proclaim it to you. And what is that? What is the message? Eternal life. Hmm. Wait, what? The life? Like, eternal life is now proclaiming to us eternal life? Like, that was God's purview, right? Like, God had a monopoly on eternal life. It was his. He is life. But now he's been made manifest to us and is now proclaiming to us an offer of his own eternal life. He's inviting us into his own life.
Seth: So interesting. Like, if life exists as a category, it's like we assume that it can't speak, right? It exists out there. We must attain it, reach up towards it, find it, access it, right? Get into our chakras. Like, we get to the life, right? Yes. But like, no, this life was made manifest. It was like— it came to us and we've seen it. And that life started speaking to us because it was a person. And he proclaims to us eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to you.
David: Right. And so it's interesting. Eternal life was with the Father and has been made manifest to you. So what he is doing is he is conflating all these categories. What is he talking about? He is talking about the message. Is, you know, like the gospel? Is he talking about the, the category of eternal life? Is he talking about the person of Jesus? Yes. Like, because you can't have eternal life without getting Jesus.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, and to get Jesus is to have eternal life. And he's about to, like, capitalize all of that with how he ends this.
Seth: So he's like, this preface, what you just said was like, John is saying that life force that was in the beginning became manifest, and that's synonymous with eternal life. Yes. Because to exist before time necessarily means that's an eternal type of life.
David: Yes.
Seth: Eternal life became a man, right?
David: Like, and then invites man into eternal life, right? And, and, but, but what's he doing there? He's saying, but you don't get eternal life— isn't like this gift that's given to you from a man, from the man Jesus. You get eternal life by being in the man Jesus. And he's gonna get there.
Seth: I think, I think I'm now thinking about just the context. This is This is happening.
David: Yes.
Seth: People don't know they are in the life.
David: Exactly.
Seth: They do not know they are in— have eternal life. They're doubting. They're doubting. And so to set up these really lofty categories does a lot. Like, okay, what do you want? You want to know you're in the life.
David: Yeah.
Seth: You want to know you have eternal life. You want to know you're saved. Let me make sure you understand what you really want. You want that.
David: Yeah.
Seth: The thing that existed before time and that thing that existed before time came down.
David: Yep, we touched it, we saw it, we heard from it, and he had a message that spoke eternal life.
Seth: And you want a part of that, right? Yes, right. He's like, yes, yes, that's what I want, that's what I want, that's what I want to know. That's why I doubt that I have, right?
David: And so, and one more thing before we jump, because we're about to get to this big crescendo at the end of verse 3, he says that, uh, which was the, this eternal life which was with the Father, right? So you combine the beginning, that which was from the beginning, right, was made manifest to us. He's talking about Jesus. Well, Jesus was with the Father. Yeah, for eternity. So there's an important thing that is being brought up here is the eternal communion of the Son and the Father. Okay, yeah, there's an eternal relationship between God and Son, which he pulled, which is how he starts his gospel too. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God. It is the eternal communion of the Son with the Father. Is so important to John's theology.
Seth: And it comes up later on in this book as one of the things the Antichrists are calling into question is the way in which the Father and the Son relate to one another.
David: Interesting.
Seth: And the fact that he's bringing up the communion or the relationship between Father and Son here also speaks to the doubt about the relationship that believers have between God himself and themselves. Like, the relationship aspect is really important.
David: Yeah, totally. And so it's like, it would probably do us some good just even quickly just to either meditate on it or say it another way about what does it mean that the Son was with the Father? What does it mean that, you know, that— yeah, I mean, that's what it says, that the eternal life was with the Father and then was made manifest to us, that, that the Son has always been with the Father, that there's an eternal fellowship, an eternal communion, an eternal relationship, right?
Seth: Like, yeah, I think it's gonna come— I mean, we know from 4:10 that the Father sends the Son.
David: Yes.
Seth: To be a sacrifice for the sins of the world. So if you want there to be a way— I mean, this is kind of getting into what's coming soon, but if you want atonement for your sins, which is the next thing that we're going to be talking about, um, you need— and you want to avoid the pagan notions of like child abuse, like divine child abuse— you actually need a God who's willing to sacrifice him part of his own self, right? Not like ex— like What am I trying to say?
David: Well, I mean, what you're trying to say is that there was— this eternal communion isn't two entities existing together in the same space, right? Like, like an actual physical father might live with his son in a house.
Seth: Yeah.
David: What you're talking about is we're saying that the eternal life in the singular— there was one life, always eternal.
Seth: Yes.
David: But it was two persons. There was the Father and the Word. Yes, the Son.
Seth: Yes.
David: And so both of them were, are, and were, and will be always one life. And yet there is a Father and a Son, and they— but their union is such that they share one life. And that's actually really important, right? That there is one life. It's not like, you know, Oprah comes out with eternal life. She's like, you get eternal life and you get eternal life. You know, we all have our own little packages of eternal life. It's like, that's my eternal life. Yeah, right. We are invited into the eternal life that the Son has been sharing with the Father forever.
Seth: Yes.
David: And he's about to capitalize on that. So that's where he goes.
Seth: I think what I was trying to say too is I think it's important to set up here because he goes on to talk about the way the Father and the Son interact in Jesus's death to atone for sins as either an atoning sacrifice or a propitiation. There's a ton of debate about that. Yeah, it's brought up a couple different times in 1 John. It's the only time it's mentioned in the New Testament, this idea this holosmos, this atoning sacrifice, it's a propitiation. And I think the reason why it's important here is that there's an essential unity between the Father and the Son that makes God, um, uh, just, right, to forgive sins by his own Son because he's one with his Son, right? It's not God being mean to somebody else. That's right. It's not abusing somebody else. It's God sending himself.
David: God did not send an another party, no matter how closely related they were to him. He sent himself.
Seth: He said the very eternal life himself so that we could have life.
David: Right.
Seth: And that like that.
David: And then we talk about the death of Jesus. You're talking about eternal life dying.
Seth: Yes.
David: Which is just the largest, most baffling sacrifice ever conceived. And so verse 3, right, that is where we are. That which we have seen and heard, we proclaim also to you so that you may— what? Have fellowship with us. And indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. So he's saying we apostles who have met the eternal life, right? We've met him, we've touched him, we've heard from him, we know him. We have fellowship with God. We are in the eternal life of God, that eternal life that the Son has been sharing with the Father forever. We're now a part of. And like where maybe some of the opponents of the Johannine community here might have wanted to close people off from that and be like, and we're special, you don't get that, right?
Seth: Yeah.
David: They go, and we want you to have fellowship with us. So what happens when you present the gospel to somebody, the message of what Jesus has done? You are inviting them into the eternal life that God has had with the Son forever. And so how do you and I have fellowship? Like, Seth, like, how do you and I have fellowship? We have fellowship because we are both in the life of Jesus. We share the eternal life of Jesus that he's had with the Father, right? And we have one life. And like, that's what he's inviting them into.
Seth: So if I am part of this Johannine community, if I'm pretty frustrated by my lack of assurance that God actually loves me— yes— if I don't know if I'm in the Father or the Father is in me, or that I have life or that I have hope after death. Right. I want some sort of like assurance that I'm in God.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And so what he is doing here is really interesting. He said, okay, you want to know that you are in God? Well, I saw God.
David: Yes.
Seth: You want to know you have eternal life? I saw eternal life.
David: Yes.
Seth: And I touched him. Yeah. And I hung out with him and I heard him and everything he said, I have said to you. You are not missing out on anything. Right. Because you did not get to touch him.
David: Yes.
Seth: And so if you believe that same message, we are brothers.
David: Yep.
Seth: As an apostle, you are my brother.
David: Yep.
Seth: And because we are brothers, we are connected and have fellowship with God himself.
David: Yes.
Seth: You can trust that you are in God and God's life is in you because we all believe the same message which we saw come to earth.
David: Yeah, that's it. That is definitely it. And it's just so when I said that, like, I think a couple of times in this opening that John will subvert some of our typical Christianese ways of talking about things, you know, it's like, yeah, the gospel of life. It's like, well, what if we just talked about it as life? You know, how does that change things? I think he does it here too, in that how is salvation defined by John here? It's defined as fellowship. And it's like at the bottom, that is what salvation is. It is reconciliation to the eternal life of God. Like we were cut off from that in the garden. We were supposed to live forever with God in fellowship, right? In a place just like the son had always done with the father. We were now the new sons and daughters that were to live in a place with him forever. We were cut off from that. And now through Jesus, we've been reconciled so that we might have fellowship with God again. And so it's like when you think about salvation, so much of the time— and it's not wrong to think about this kind of salvation either, where it's like we've been freed from the punishment for our sins that our sins deserve, right? Or from the weight and bondage of sin, our slavery to sin, right? Yes, true. 100% true. We've been freed from the wrath of God. True. So mitigating those or anything like that, what I am saying is like at bottom, you know, or maybe even just like additionally, however you want to say it. Yeah. Like salvation is restoring fellowship with the eternal life of God and participating in it.
Seth: Let's talk about that word fellowship then a little bit more. Yeah. Okay. So I think I have a whole bunch of assumptions about what fellowship means.
David: It's potlucks. That's all it is.
Seth: It's like I get a potluck with God. He's bringing out his braised lamb and it's going to be awesome.
David: I always picture like, uh, like Jello molds.
Seth: That's what, that's what God's bringing to the potluck.
David: He's bringing a lime green Jello mold. Ah, come on.
Seth: I would have expected God to have something a little more lavish.
David: Yes.
Seth: Hence the braised lamb. Also, it's like symbolic.
David: It is.
Seth: Because of Passover. That is probably what I would bring.
David: Do you get it? I think I get it.
Seth: You get it. Okay. Got it. Uh, but yeah, a whole bunch of assumptions.
David: Right.
Seth: So we're kind of, I've been talking about it as like, I want assurance that I'm in God and the life is in me. That's the type of fellowship. Uh, fellowship could be like community. Like I'm hanging out with a group of people. That I feel, feel relationally close to.
David: Right.
Seth: Fellowship could be like we're advancing towards a common goal together.
David: Like the Fellowship of the Ring.
Seth: Like the Fellowship of the Ring, destroying the ring.
David: Got it.
Seth: Got it. It could be— I mean, I think the way that John is using it here as fellowship, it's like when we have a common salvation. Yes. Or a common life. A common life.
David: Yes.
Seth: That itself is a type of fellowship, that we have a common source of life.
David: Yes. You could think of it kind of like a family. You were kind of doing that with like brotherhood. You were talking about that, you know, and it's like me and my sister have a unique fellowship because we have the same life source, our parents, you know.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Now it's different because we both now have our own autonomous lives, right?
Seth: Right.
David: I have a heartbeat and my body exists, my neurons fire apart from hers. So it's still— it's a little different.
Seth: Yeah. And you don't have shared missions as brother and sister, right? But you do have a shared source in your mom. Yeah, nothing breaks that. No.
David: And so I'm like, I think that is a little bit of what John is getting at here, is that we, when we have fellowship with Jesus, we share the same life source, that we now have eternal life and communion with the Father and the Son and each other.
Seth: Like, there's something objective about that. That isn't like— so the fact that you are a son of your mother, there's something objective about the life that you have. That's right.
David: Regardless if I disown my mom and ran away from home, I'm still a son, right?
Seth: Regardless of your shared community with your sister or your shared like values or goals, you still are a family, right? You still have the same mom, the same mom. And so I think in a similar way, I think what John is saying here is like, if you know this, if you know that Jesus came, you have the same life. You have fellowship with the life based on that knowledge. You— and that's kind of an objective reality. Like, we have an objective family progenitor in Jesus that isn't based on what you do so much, right? Or where you come— although there's a ton of ethical commands we'll get there. We've got to talk about, because I've been like wrestling with this. Um, but like isn't so much based on our common mission or common values or common action so much as it is on the common message, the common proclamation that Jesus, the life, became flesh.
David: Right. And has given life to us.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yes. So I mean, that's kind of what's happening here. It's a glorious opening that gives you so much to wrestle with, uh, and just bask in. Uh, so maybe there's a good time to pause before we jump. Or do you want to talk about our joy?
Seth: Well, I mean, it's kind of like, how do we not talk about joy in the context of this? We are writing these things so that our joy may be complete. Yes. So I think—
David: which, to flag, yeah, uh, there is equal manuscript evidence, uh, internal ways that John uses this Greek word, and contextual evidence, uh, that we don't really know if he's saying we're writing these things so that our joy may be complete or so that your joy may be complete. Most of your Bibles should flag that.
Seth: And what I think is interesting, I don't know if it matters all that much. It doesn't, because we have fellowship and we share life, right? If the point is that we have fellowship with one another based on the proclamation of this objective news that life has come to us, my joy is your joy.
David: Yes.
Seth: When you're with me as a brother and we are together with him, and when I am communicating to you the fellowship that you have and assuaging your guilt and your sense of like alienation from the divine, That's my joy, right?
David: And like a way to then read this, our is not the same reference as the we who was in the beginning, the apostles. Make the apostles' joy complete, right? He's saying make our— everybody who believes and shares in this eternal life, our joy is made complete. Like whenever we enter into this eternal life. And John Stott, he points out in his commentary that there is a historical linear thing that, that John is doing these opening verses, that he starts in eternity past, right? So in the beginning was the word kind of thing moves into eternity, like, like the historical present.
Seth: Jesus comes.
David: Jesus comes, was made flesh, and then ends in eternity future when joy will be made complete, when we will be, you know, caught up in the eternal life of God forever. And so it's just an interesting, like, way to structure this.
Seth: Yeah. You know, I've been wrestling with every division that comes in this book. Yes. Like, I've got all these headings: The Word of Life, chapter, uh, Walking in the Light, Christ Our Advocate. Like, I have all these little subheadings. Right. They're not original.
David: No.
Seth: And I'm having a lot of trouble because I don't know where one thought ends and one begins.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Because it makes a ton of sense at this point to say, okay, This was the life. He came. Our joy is here. And here's the message. This is the next verse. God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all. That feels like a good summary of everything we just read, right? Just as much as it's an introduction to what we're about to read.
David: Yes. The little subdivision there doesn't make a ton of sense.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yeah. But as a lot of subdivisions in the Bible don't.
Seth: And we're going to go there next.
David: Yeah, so like you said, uh, it's kind of the subdivisions in our Bible, at least between verses 4 and 5, are a little confusing because he's talking about this message that came, that we heard, that we touched. It's a message of eternal life. And then he says, and here's the message, right, in verse 5, that God is light and in him there is no darkness at all. And then he goes in to talk about darkness and light and walking in light and not walking in darkness. So what's happening in this section?
Seth: So regardless of where verse 5 belongs, right, paragraph before, the paragraph after, it is the bridge into what's happening next. The message is that God is light and in him there is no darkness at all. And that what comes next is 3 examples of a counter-teaching or a counter-option to this message. Okay, that's so— in verse 6, If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie. That's verse 5, 6. Then verse 8, if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves. And then verse 10, if we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar. And then you jump into chapter 2 and it says, whoever says I know him but does not keep his commandments is a liar. So I think is happening here is that John is introducing kind of incognito some of the teachings of the Antichrist. Definitely. He set up this category of fellowship with God, being one with God. How do we know we're in him? And then he's introducing— now, you've heard it said that we have— we can have fellowship with God, but also that we can walk in darkness. Now, you've heard it said that we have no sin.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: But I say, you've heard it said here, but how do we respond to these things? Right. And he goes after each one of these you've heard it said.
David: Yeah, kind of like, uh, so you might say like, you, you, it's possible that whenever John says, if I say, he's flagging a, those antichrists are saying, right?
Seth: Okay. And then he gives a, he gives a counterargument to that. And I think that happens through to chapter 6. Yeah. And so we'll see how far we get today.
David: That's cool. So we have to start.
Seth: Yes.
David: In this kind of out of nowhere seemingly statement that it's like, okay, we've been building up. Here's the message. God is light. Wait, I thought it was life. I thought we were talking about eternal life. Now you pivoted on me, Jon.
Seth: Yep.
David: Why are we talking about light now? And I've got thoughts. What are your thoughts?
Seth: Well, so yeah, so kind of just an interesting note as I was reading a commentary written by a guy named Cruz. He said the the term light in the New Testament is used more often metaphorically than literally.
David: Yes.
Seth: Which I was like, really? I was like, I want to double-check that. But that is a fascinating little—
David: I mean, they didn't have electricity back then.
Seth: They didn't have electricity back then. But I think the most interesting thing here is one, wow, what an interesting segue from God is life to God is light. But it makes total sense if you read John 1, the Gospel of John 1. Right. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
David: Yes.
Seth: So John already does the work of connecting life and light for us elsewhere in his writings.
David: Yeah. But what does light mean?
Seth: I think here it has a moral dimension.
David: It must, because of what comes after.
Seth: Everything that comes after this is how do you live as if you are in the light and not in darkness? He'll go on to describe it as obedience or lying or truthfulness or disobedience.
David: Like, so the metaphor then would be like, you turn on a light, there's no room for darkness where light is, right? It's not like there can be— it's not like— so we're in a— we're in a perfectly lit room, like wherever you are. Maybe look around unless you're driving, then just look ahead. And it's like, if it's the daytime, you know, yeah, like look around and it's not as if like suspended in the brightness of the air there can just be a circle of darkness. Like, it doesn't work that way.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: Light. Light is pure, right? Wherever light is, darkness cannot be.
Seth: Yes.
David: And so there is a purity to it and a dispelling feature of it. So maybe if you're driving at night, look around, it's all darkness except for your headlights. And wherever your headlights are, there cannot be darkness.
Seth: Yeah.
David: You know? And so there's this moral purity, right?
Seth: Right.
David: Like, there is only goodness in God. That, that there's not— there cannot be one speck of darkness floating around inside God that is immoral or wrong or off, because he is moral light. Okay, I thought— is that like—
Seth: I think— I think—
David: look at the metaphor.
Seth: I think that's right. And I think it connects back to creation, right? So like, you have the darkness of creation, and the first thing he says is, "Let there be light." And it's the beginning of life in the universe.
David: Light and light are connected.
Seth: They are connected. You don't have the ground sprouting fruit without the light.
David: Yeah. I mean, think about it from a biological level, right? Photosynthesis must occur for all life on Earth to be sustained.
Seth: There is something about that. And I also think there's something about like, there's like, it's a pure power, almost like light was this power in, in— I mean, it gets so metaphorical so quickly.
David: Well, I— but yeah, go ahead.
Seth: I think, I think the way to land it is like, You— throughout the Old Testament, there's a whole bunch of different ways to look about— think about light and darkness, obedience, disobedience, secrecy, open-handedness. Like, there's a whole bunch of different ways.
David: Yes.
Seth: But it's clear the way that John is using it is the way that we've already described it. It's about moral or ethical purity. Mm-hmm. And in him there is no darkness at all. And this is important because he's about to set up the ways in which these false teachers, these antichrists, are failing to be morally appropriate or morally right.
David: Yes.
Seth: Upright.
David: Yeah, I get that. And to double down on that point before I throw one more wrinkle in is like, there is a connection in Genesis between not only life and creative power, i.e., light, right? But also there is, there is a connection between moral light and life in that whenever Adam and Eve walk away from the moral light and have darkness in them, what do they forfeit? Life.
Seth: Eternal life.
David: They forfeit eternal life because of moral darkness.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so moral darkness and eternal— in the eternal light of life cannot exist together. Yeah, right. So to have light, right?
Seth: Yeah.
David: Be morally upright is to have life. To be morally dark is to have death.
Seth: Yeah, there's something exclusionary, like both inclusive and exclusive about the quality of life. It sheds light on everything.
David: Yes.
Seth: The whole world is like covered in the light of the glory of God. Yes. In Jesus Christ. Right. But there's also something like it cannot stand, it cannot enter, it cannot abide darkness.
David: But darkness can't abide it.
Seth: Dark. Yes, that's right. Darkness cannot abide it. There is like—
David: light is switched on. All darkness goes away.
Seth: It is, it is mutually exclusive with darkness.
David: They cannot coexist, which is what will make what he goes on to say so powerful.
Seth: Right.
David: Before we go there, the moral commands, I just wanted to throw one more wrinkle in the metaphor of God is light, because I think it's interesting that through verses 1 to 4, he's talking about that which was made manifest. God revealing himself, the light, the, like, the life that was in eternity past that was invisible inapproachable, inaccessible, right? Has made himself visible. And it's like God— like God is light. God revealed himself. He turned the lights on to himself. Like he made himself visible. There was this opaque, dim God in the shadows almost. And then when he came in the person of Jesus, in the broad daylight of the Galilean sun, you know, yeah, people are like, oh, that's God. There he is. Behold. The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. That's what he looks like.
Seth: And whenever the Apostle John— the— I'm pretty sure the author of 1 John, we've talked about this, who also is the author of Revelation. In Revelation 21 and 22, the final end of the Bible, he talks about the light of the glory of God being revealed, right? And it's the same word, the same concept used here. It is the full, like, revelation of who God is, the full, like, import.
David: So much so that we won't even need the created allegory that was made in the beginning, the sun, right?
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like you can think about God being like, let there be light. And like, because there's light in the world, we now have this interior hint that there's a God who made it, right? But when Jesus comes at the last day, Revelation that you mentioned says, and there was no longer any sun because we didn't need it. Yeah. And we don't need lamps. We don't need light switches. Why? Because Jesus is light and he will illuminate everything. Yeah, I mean, it's just—
Seth: there will be a qual— and then the moral quality of that.
David: Yeah, there will be no evil, right? All darkness. And there will be no little speck of darkness suspended in heaven.
Seth: Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, so that in mind, God is light.
David: Jesus is light. He holds eternal life. So these false teachers, what are they saying?
Seth: If we say we have fellowship with him, uh, while we walk in darkness, We lie and do not practice the truth. Now we've introduced truth here, right?
David: But I mean, it almost is like laughably obvious now that you've set up these categories, right? Where it's like, if we say we have fellowship in the light and we walk in darkness and like, I'm laughing already, you know, it's like, well, think, well, think about why that would have been so powerful as a false teaching.
Seth: Hmm. I don't know if I'm in God anymore. I don't know if I'm in the light anymore. No, no, it's okay. It doesn't matter what you do. You can act however you want. You can commit that sin over and over again. You can do that. That's permissible within Scripture as I understand it. Mm-hmm. You can have fellowship with God and continue to do that one thing. It's okay. You're still in the light, right? So it's like, oh, that, that's actually a really comforting false teaching. It's a comforting false teaching. And so it's obvious when you set up the categories of light and darkness, obviously that can't do it. But like in the moment of doubt and also wrestling with our own sinful proclivities, we want to believe that darkness and light can coincide. Right. But the Apostle John is saying, no, no, no, that's actually a metaphorical impossibility as much as it is a spiritual impossibility. If you say you felt fellowship with God while walking in the things that he's called darkness, that's a lie. Yeah. Or it would be like you don't practice the truth.
David: It would be like Can I walk around in broad daylight and say it's nighttime? No.
Seth: Yes.
David: The sun is in the sky. It's daytime. And like, no, it's dark. It's like, no, you're an idiot. You're lying. That's what you're a liar.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Which is interesting. Like, do you think he's directing that term liar to the Antichrist? Because he'll bring liar back when he talks about Satan later in the book and he says that he's been lying from the beginning. Right? He brings the beginning back.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so it's like, do you think he's calling the Antichrist liars? It's a title directed at them, potentially. Yeah.
Seth: He goes on in verse 10 to say, if we say we have not sinned, we make God a liar. Yeah. And his word is not in us. So I think it cuts both ways. Like, oh, it's maybe an oblique reference to the fact that the Antichrist are liars, but it's also like a revelation shedding light on what we're actually doing. If we say we have fellowship with the light and yet continue to do things that are in the dark, we're lying about our fellowship with the light. Like, that's, that's an untruth you're telling. You're no longer doing the truth.
David: So if you're, if you're lying, then you're not practicing truth.
Seth: Yes.
David: That's what he's talking about here.
Seth: Yes.
David: So what does he mean to practice the truth? Is it what he says next in verse 7?
Seth: Almost. That phrase, practice the truth, it's used one other time.
David: Oh, okay.
Seth: By John. In John 3, John 3:21, which I'll pull up right now. He says this in John 3:21, but whoever lives by the truth, whoever does the truth, comes into the light so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God. So that he's pulling on again this doing the truth is living in the light, doing What God wants is living in the light. Living in fellowship with God is living in the light. That's doing the truth, right?
David: You're, you're resting, operating in God's moral purity.
Seth: Yes.
David: Okay.
Seth: That's doing the truth.
David: I get it. So then he offers the counterpoint, right, to the lie, to the false teachers. And he says, but if we walk in the light, like we've been talking about, as Jesus is in the light, it says, as he is in the light, we have fellowship here it is again, mm-hmm, with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
Seth: We don't need to deny our sins. We don't need to say our sins are okay in order to feel good about being in fellowship with God and one another.
David: That's right.
Seth: Why? Jesus, his blood has paid for our sins, right? We don't need to be afraid that our sins disqualify us from being in God's presence. You don't need that type of false teaching when the cross is evidence that the your sins have been nailed to the cross. When you live in the light and walk in the light, you have fellowship with all of us, the one that heard the message of life.
David: Yes.
Seth: And your sins are forgiven, right?
David: Because you have fellowship with— because you're in Jesus, right? Right. And so, okay, let me see if I can map this here. So the false teachers are saying like, oh no, you can still be like in Jesus and with the Father and saved and in the light and go on sinning. Like, it's fine.
Seth: Yeah, don't worry about it. Don't— and I think it's like, I want to like lean into the conciliatory tone of it because it's not— because I think it's like, oh, that's obviously false. You can do whatever you want and love God. It's like, oh, don't worry, like you can still be connected to God and this— he doesn't care about this one thing.
David: Or we can—
Seth: I think that's like the tone we should hear it. That's what feels—
David: which is why like, which is why some of the most dangerous truths are half-truths. Because like, yes, sinners are still in fellowship with God. Yeah, because I still sin, right? And yet I'm still with God. But I don't— I don't—
Seth: I'm not—
David: that fellowship is not based in a consolation. Yeah, right, which is like, oh no, it's okay.
Seth: Or even like the false side, a false way to talk about the gospel. We are saved not by works, but by faith alone. You have faith in God, you're not condemned by your works, right? Which is actually We're not saved by our works, so that means we're not condemned by our works either. Oh no, actually, we're not saved by our works, but our works can actually tell us something about the state of our life, right? Our heart.
David: And so he's like, so, but it's like you would expect him to say something like, if you want to remain in the light, be perfect. He says no, to remain in the light is to hold on to Jesus. And when you hold on to Jesus, his blood continually purifies you from your sin. Not only its condemnation, right? Its penal guilt, right? But also like from the propensity to act upon it.
Seth: Yeah, I'm wrestling with— this is where I was starting to wrestle. Okay, this goes back. So I've kind of set up the stakes as I continue to see them. Yeah, it's like, okay, what is the gospel? We are saved by grace alone and not by what we do, right? But we must still do good works, right? I mean, I would, I would disagree with that phrase, that phrasing, but like good works are the necessary or the normal proof that we have been saved by the Lord.
David: We have been saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, apart from what we do, apart from what we do, and good works will inevitably spring forth.
Seth: Yeah. Faith without works is dead.
David: Right.
Seth: That's the way James— faith without works is dead.
David: Right.
Seth: So what happens then when the works are wrong? And which is like what's happening here in this context. So he says, but if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. He's like front-loading the ethical commands in a way that makes me uncomfortable with the way that I'm normally used to formulating the gospel. Because I think, like, I think there's even a movement within, like, people who love the gospel of Jesus and want to harp on his free grace primarily before works to, like, discount works altogether. I think some people call it the hyper-grace movement. So, like, there is that trend even within me to dismiss the importance, the necessity, the primacy, or, like, the significance of works in how they interact with my fellowship with God and with one another. And the ways in which Jesus saves me. Like, I think John is challenging me a little bit more than I was expecting on how I need to think about my walking in the light as part of my assurance of salvation.
David: Yeah. I mean, Jesus talks about like, you know, a tree by its fruit, like a way to know that you're in him is like, is there evidence in your life? Do you look different? Do you bear the fruit of the Spirit? More than you did 10 years ago. Yeah, right. Like, that is— that is definitely an evidence. And I think he'll pull on that more and more, John will, as the letter unfolds, that he'll talk about, do you love your brother? Oh, well, then you're in Christ, you know, like, and it's not a works-based salvation because it's rooted in did you believe in the message that we heard from the beginning?
Seth: Right, right, right.
David: But there's another way, I think, to look at this too. And that is like, if these antichrists, these false teachers are trying to provide a different gospel, right? A different way to assuage the guilt of their congregants. You know, then John is offering the correct gospel. To walk in the light is not to just walk in darkness and ignore that you're sinning or claim you actually don't have sin, right? But it's to trust that the blood of Jesus is cleansing you from all your sin. It's to, in verse 9, constantly confess your sins knowing that they'll be forgiven. You know, it's like, it's admitting sin. And so like, this is another way to look at it is light is also like a purifying thing, that when we step into the light, like, you know, you like people talk about like when you come out, like, come out of what? Like whenever you like, own up, you own up to something.
Seth: Yes.
David: Right. You own up to something that you did. It's like, I just put it out on the table, right? I cast it into the light.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And it is like we think that when we put something out into the light, our sin, right? Like some embarrassing thing that we have done that we are ashamed of. And we think that if we put it out into the light, everyone will see it and will be disowned. And will be mocked and laughed at. And what John is saying is like, no, those who have fellowship with Jesus know that his blood is going to constantly forgive them from all their sins. So they live in the light, constantly confessing their sins open-handedly. They never hide their sin. They never make excuses for their sin. They never say they were without sin.
Seth: Right? Right.
David: They live in the light. To live in the light is to live a life of confession, to live a life that says, oh yes, I did that and Jesus forgives it, you know? And so I do think— and we will get to like the moral commands of Scripture, but there's also just this like What does it— what does it mean to live in the light? It means to rely on the blood of Jesus.
Seth: Yes. What does it mean to walk in the light? It means to believe in the proclamation that came, as well as the ongoing obedience that that life requires.
David: Exactly.
Seth: And here's what I— here's what I think it's getting at for me. The way he frontloads it, but if we walk in the light as he is in the light, and that moral perfection that he is in the light, right? Then we're— that word's not there, but we have fellowship with one another. And the blood of Jesus cleanses from all sins. I— here's what I think. I think that I'm so used to thinking about, well, good works don't save me, that, well, then they're good for nothing.
David: Oh yes.
Seth: And what I think he's saying, no, no, your good works can actually be a way to remind you that you are in the light, right? And that God has forgiven you. Yes. Like, if you are— you can look at your life, and if you're seeing growth, if you see moral purity, if you're seeing glimpses of the light of God inside you, however small they might be, no, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son is cleansing you from all sin. Like, you can actually do the equation backwards when it comes to, like, my doubt about my own salvation. Yes, I can look back, have other people tell me where they see me growing and where they see light in me. And that itself is proof that I am in God and God's blood has sealed me.
David: Absolutely right.
Seth: And I think that's what I'm like wrestling with here. And I think that's what he wants us to see.
David: Yeah. When it seems like in verse, in verse 8, it seems like he's attacking one of the false teachings is that like, it's just better for us to just say we don't have sin. Right. And I think like when you, when you want to think about assurance, right. And like, how do you conquer the doubt of, am I okay with God? How do I know I'm saved? A lot of the times, like, people just ignore their sin.
Seth: Yes.
David: We just want to be like, no, I'm generally a good person. Like, yeah, I'm not as bad as so-and-so. Like, I really don't have sin, capital S, damn me to hell sin. Come on. You know? And it's like, but I think what John is saying is like, oh man, to walk in the light is to constantly see your sin.
Seth: Yeah. So yeah, yeah. So this, you're getting it. So the next act The next false teaching is, if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. And it's like, and what's his antidote to that? No, we just confess our sins. Why? Because he's faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Hiding our sins makes no sense when we have a Jesus who is both faithful to his promises and just to forgive us, and he's willing to do it to anybody you ask. Why hide your sins when you have a savior? Right.
David: And like, and to do such self-harm. As deceiving yourself. When I'm thinking about like he's calling these antichrists the liars, right? Later he's going to call Satan the liar who's been lying from the beginning, that serpent in the garden, right? And now he's like, look, you're being Satan to yourself. Ah, if you don't think about how you sin, like if you, if you're like, no, I think I'm actually pretty good, it's like you are your own Satan. You don't even need Satan's help.
Seth: We think ignoring our sin is the lenient thing to do, right? The merciful thing to do. Like, it's not that big of a deal. That's more merciful than acknowledging it as sin.
David: But actually, you're deceiving yourself.
Seth: You're deceiving yourself. You're being a Satan— I don't think about dismissing or minimizing sin as something demonic or satanic.
David: Yeah, you're doing Satan's job.
Seth: You're doing Satan's job for him.
David: You're lying to yourself, and he's the liar, and you're— his lies have so embedded themselves in you that you're just telling them to yourself.
Seth: And I think even like on a psychological level, I experienced that, which is not what he's talking about here. But it's like when I try to ignore my sin or push it down or wait a couple of days to really think about it, it's like all I can do is keep thinking about it.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And at best I can maybe distract myself by watching some TV or like doing something to like, just not think about the thing I did in the past. And it's like, you don't have to go through any of that. We have Jesus. He is faithful. To his promises in the past when he said, "I will forgive to a thousand generations," and he is just to forgive us our sins. Like, there is no need to hide.
David: No, there is no need to hide.
Seth: And when he cleanses our sins, they are done with. You do not have to worry about it anymore. Do you want to kind of say something interesting about the word confession?
David: Ooh, sure.
Seth: So confession is not actually talked about a ton in the New Testament, and almost every time it is— I think every time, except maybe here, it's a public confession of sin.
David: Right. Yes.
Seth: So when John the Baptist is baptizing people, people are publicly declaring their sins, either John the Baptist or the people around them, right, before they're baptized. In James 5:16, you're supposed to confess your sins to the elders, and then in order to be healed by the elders. In Acts 19, the town of Ephesus confesses their sin of sorcery.
David: Oh, and they burn all their witch books.
Seth: And burn all their witch books. There's like this public aspect to confession. That's really interesting.
David: Yes.
Seth: Especially when a lot of times our sins are not primarily against God, they're against—
David: Oh, right, one another.
Seth: Well, they are primarily against God, primarily against God, but they are all—
David: they're most often also secondarily against one another.
Seth: Against one another.
David: And like, we also hurt each other.
Seth: Yes. Yeah. So it's like there's this public confessional aspect that comes with that, which I think is also interesting.
David: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I was taught growing up through this verse that like, well, two harmful things here. One was like, just confess it to God. He's the only one who needs to hear it. Yep. And I'm like, that's not biblical.
Seth: Yeah, it's like, and it's like I wrestle with that all the time. Like, well, they don't need to know. They know I'm sorry. Or it's like, well, they don't even know I hurt them, right? I did. I kind of was like snappy for a second, or I just thought about it, right? About them poorly behind their back. Right.
David: But you have done that to me. Like, you have been like, hey David, I was like thinking this thought about you. I am sorry. Yeah. And like, I did not know. I was not hurt.
Seth: Right.
David: But it is like part of how the Holy Spirit is bearing fruit in your life to be like, I want to make sure I am completely reconciled to this person I have fellowship with in the eternal life of God. You know, it is like, and that is the impulse, right? To like, why confess our sins to one another? Because we share life. We share the eternal life of Jesus. We are in Christ. We do not break that fellowship.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so like there's that, that was one harmful thing was like, just say it to God. And then the other one was the if is so conditional that if you don't confess every sin, it's not forgiven.
Seth: Yeah, I definitely believe that one. I might talk about the podcast about my neurotic prayers as a kid.
David: It's worth bringing up. Oh gosh.
Seth: As a kid, I had this like running list of things that I was not allowed to think about.
David: Right.
Seth: So there were things like, as an 11-year-old boy, like girls' bodies, demons, warlocks. Warlocks was specifically on the list. Uh, swear words, like inappropriate jokes. I had this running list in my mind of things that I couldn't think about.
David: Right.
Seth: And if I thought about them, I'd say really quick, God, please forgive me for thinking about girls in the name of Jesus. Amen. And this list, as I got older, continued to grow.. And I realized I, once the list was such like a concrete thing in my mind, that as soon as I started confessing one thing on the list, I would start thinking about swear words and demons and witches and warlocks. And I'd start praying and asking for forgiveness for everything on the list. So like, God, please forgive me for thinking about girls and now swear words and oh gosh. And the warlocks again and the witches. God, please forgive me. And I was afraid that if I didn't do that, I wouldn't be forgiven.
David: Yes.
Seth: And then I had the realization that. I would start thinking about the things at the beginning of the list. By the time you finished— So I had to start saying it faster. God, please forgive me for thinking about witches and warlocks and demons and the girls and David G. Sabin. And I would say it really fast and then like distract myself with something else in order to feel okay.
David: Right.
Seth: So that was me as a kid. Yes.
David: What, what Jon is not getting at here is if you don't confess every single sin specifically by name, when it's committed, you will not be forgiven. That's not what he's saying here. That is not what's going on here. If you leave a sin unconfessed and get hit by a school bus, you're not going to hell or purgatory.
Seth: Yeah. And I think again, why I feel like I have to keep recentering myself, like, why are we talking about all this? These people don't know they're in the life. They don't know they have eternal life. They don't know if God is in them and they're in God. They don't know if they're saved.
David: Yeah. Maybe somebody in the Johannine community had their own list. Right. Of warlocks and witches.
Seth: And they were like, I don't know if— and I mean, as a kid, I kept thinking that. Does this mean that if I don't pray this, if I die before I finish this prayer, God doesn't love me anymore?
David: Right.
Seth: I think what John's doing is like, okay, do you believe that Jesus came? Do you walk in the light? Okay. Are you afraid of your sin? Well, you don't have to hide it.
David: Right.
Seth: Confess it.
David: Right.
Seth: And the blood of Jesus covers your sins.
David: That's good news.
Seth: And that's good news.
David: Really good news.
Seth: And it's like, it's so simple. You don't have to listen to the false teaching. You just— this is it.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Okay.
David: Last, last verse in chapter 1.
Seth: Well, here's a can of worms with chapter 1. So every up to this point, you have, if we say that, and then his response. So chapter 10, verse 10, his response, I believe, is 2:1-6.
David: Okay.
Seth: And so I think we should save it for the next podcast.
David: I love it.
Seth: Because he goes on. So we call— we don't practice the truth. We deceive ourselves, and then we go to the most intense accusation. We call God a liar when we say we don't have sin.
David: Okay, cliffhanger.
Seth: Cliffhanger. Uh, so yeah, well, great.
David: Well, that'll be fun. Well, thank you guys for going through 1 John with us. I'm excited about this, this letter. It's beautiful. It's been captivating so far. So yeah, anyway, we really appreciate you guys, and we'll see you next week.
Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel Podcast. Spoken Gospel creates short films, devotionals, and podcasts like this one. Everything we make is free because of generous supporters like you. To see our resources, visit SpokenGospel.com or subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. See you next week.
