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1 John 1:10-2:17: How to Stop Sinning

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John continues to comfort his community. Facing both antichrists and persistent doubts about their salvation, John reminds them of their total forgiveness in Jesus and the role loving one another plays in assuring them of their salvation. Seth and David talk about how Christianity is the only religion that offers assurance of our life with God and why loving our neighbor gives us confidence in our salvation.

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The Surprising Connection Between Assurance and Obedience in 1 John

Show Notes

David and Seth continue their journey through 1 John, picking up at the end of chapter one and moving through chapter two, verse 17. The conversation centers on a tension every follower of Jesus has felt: John writes so that his readers "may not sin" (1 John 2:1), yet he has just finished acknowledging that anyone who claims to be without sin is self-deceived. What follows is a layered, pastoral argument about what it actually looks like to fight sin, find assurance, and live in the light of the Gospel.

Calling God a Liar by Denying Sin

First John 1:10 escalates the stakes of denying sin beyond mere self-deception. If someone says they have not sinned, they do not simply misunderstand themselves — they make God a liar. At the most basic level, this means contradicting God's testimony about the state of humanity. But the implications go deeper. God sent Jesus to be the atoning sacrifice for sin (1 John 2:2). To claim sinlessness is to say Jesus's death was pointless, that the cross accomplished nothing. In 1 John, the word "liar" is closely linked to the antichrists — the false teachers who had left the community and were spreading confusion. So to deny one's own sin is, in a sense, to stand with the antichrists and against the work of God's own Son.

This matters because the false teachers were likely redefining sin in ways that left the community confused. They may have been saying certain sins did not count, or that true spiritual enlightenment meant you had moved past the need for repentance. John's response cuts through that fog. Denying sin is not spiritual maturity; it is a rejection of the Gospel itself.

Jesus as Advocate and Atoning Sacrifice

The transition into chapter two introduces one of the letter's most comforting images. John writes so that his readers will not sin, but he immediately adds, "if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus the Messiah, the Righteous One" (1 John 2:1). The word "advocate" — paraclete in Greek — carried weight in the ancient world. Outside the Bible, it often referred to a person of high social standing who would appear before a community on behalf of someone accused, vouching for them not on the basis of the accused person's character but on the basis of the advocate's own reputation. Jesus does precisely this before the Father: he speaks on behalf of sinners not because of what they have done, but because of what he has done.

The follow-up question is inevitable — on what grounds can Jesus call guilty people innocent? The answer comes in verse two. Jesus is the "hilasmon," the atoning sacrifice, a word rooted in the Old Testament Day of Atonement. In the tabernacle, God would look down from above the Ark of the Covenant, through the blood sprinkled on the atonement cover, and see the representations of his people and their broken law beneath it. He would read that broken relationship through the blood of a sacrifice and extend forgiveness. Jesus fulfills that entire picture. He is both the covering and the blood — the one through whom God sees his people and forgives them.

This leads to the question of what John means when he says Jesus is the atoning sacrifice "not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2:2). This verse has been claimed by those who hold to Universalism, the belief that all people will ultimately be saved. But 1 John itself rules that out. Chapter five states plainly, "Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son does not have life" (1 John 5:11–12). The "whole world" language more likely reflects the global scope of God's saving plan. Just as the tabernacle was a picture of the whole cosmos, and just as God's promise to Abraham was to bless all nations, Jesus's atonement is not limited to one ethnic group or one community. It reaches every tribe, nation, and tongue — not automatically, but through trust in the Son.

Keeping the Commandments and the Gift of Assurance

John pivots from the covering of sin to the question of how believers can know they belong to God. "By this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments" (1 John 2:3). For a community rattled by false teachers who claimed superior knowledge of God, this would have been a balm. The test is not subscribing to some secret doctrine; it is obedience.

But this raises a natural worry. What about when obedience fails? John has already addressed that — there is a covering in Jesus. The logic works from both directions. If sin makes someone fear they are disqualified, John points them back to the advocate and the atonement. If the absence of any visible proof of transformation leaves someone wondering whether they truly know God, John points to obedience as evidence that God's work is real in their life. He is hemming his readers in with assurance from every angle.

The word "know" in verse three carries a double meaning. It refers both to intellectual certainty and to experiential intimacy. Keeping God's commandments is not simply proof of salvation filed away in a drawer — it is how a person actually experiences fellowship with God. To disobey is to walk in darkness, which brings increasing alienation and confusion. To obey is to walk in the light, which deepens one's sense of God's love and presence. This is not works-based salvation. Good works do not earn a right standing with God; they are the fruit that grows from a tree already rooted in the Gospel. A person's assurance of salvation is different from the fact of their salvation. Obedience functions as a way to be reminded of what Jesus has already accomplished, not as a way to earn it.

Christianity stands apart here. Most world religions leave the question of final acceptance unanswered until death. Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism all lack a mechanism for present-tense assurance. Even Old Testament Judaism operated under a conditional covenant — obey and stay in the land; disobey and face exile. Christianity alone offers assurance that is grounded not in psychological comfort but in a historical, physical event: Jesus died and rose again. That is where a believer plants their confidence.

The Old and New Commandment: Love as Light

The specific commandment John has in mind turns out to be both ancient and radically new. "I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning" (1 John 2:7). The old commandment is "love your neighbor as yourself," a bedrock of the Torah. But John immediately adds that it is also a new commandment, echoing Jesus's words in John 13:34. The old command said love others as you love yourself. The new command raises the bar: love others as Jesus has loved you. That means sacrificial, self-giving, death-embracing love — the kind Jesus demonstrated when he washed his disciples' feet and then went to the cross.

John ties the commandment directly to the Gospel message the community had already received: "God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all" (1 John 1:5). The commandment and the Gospel are the same reality seen from two angles. To obey the commandment is to walk in the light. To walk in the light is to live out the truth that Jesus died for you by dying to yourself for others. Whoever loves their brother "abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling" (1 John 2:10). Light guides. It is how God led Israel through the wilderness with a pillar of fire. It is how God spoke creation into existence. Loving others is not just moral duty; it is following the light that holds the universe together.

The reverse is equally true. Whoever hates their brother "is in the darkness and walks in the darkness and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes" (1 John 2:11). Failing to love does not simply break a rule — it plunges a person deeper into blindness and alienation from God. There is a feedback loop in both directions. Remembering that Jesus, as your brother, died for you fuels love for the brothers and sisters around you. That love, in turn, reinforces the assurance that you belong to God. But hatred spirals the other way, denying the significance of Jesus's sacrifice and sinking further into darkness.

A Song of Assurance for the Whole Church

After building a tight theological argument across nearly a chapter and a half, John shifts registers entirely. Verses 12 through 14 read like a poem or a hymn, and they function as a pastoral embrace. John addresses his readers as "little children" — the Greek word "teknia" is a term of deep affection, not a reference to age. He then singles out "fathers" and "young men," painting a picture of a spiritual family.

To the whole church he says, "Your sins are forgiven for his name's sake." To the fathers he says, "You know him who is from the beginning." To the young men he says, "You have overcome the evil one." He repeats the pattern a second time, and in the second round, the young men receive a triple encouragement: "You are strong, the Word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one." After all the logical argument, John simply declares the truth over his people. This is assurance delivered not through syllogism but through song. The fathers, who have weathered suffering and trial, know the God who has been faithful from the start. The young men, full of zeal and energy, are reminded that they carry the Word of God within them. And the whole community is told, plainly, that their sins have been forgiven. The different groups also serve as encouragement to each other — the steadiness of the fathers and the strength of the young men together form a community capable of standing firm against the lies of the antichrists.

Do Not Love the World: Breaking the Dark Feedback Loop

The poem of assurance flows directly into one of the letter's most famous — and most misunderstood — commands: "Do not love the world or the things in the world" (1 John 2:15). Growing up in the church, many people heard this as a prohibition against secular culture, R-rated movies, or anything that felt "worldly." But John is after something deeper. In his Gospel, John used "the world" to describe the Pharisees and the religious establishment that persecuted Jesus (John 15:18–25). The "world" is not simply a category of products or entertainment. It includes religious systems bent on opposing Jesus just as much as it includes the pornography industry.

What defines the world, according to John, is not external but internal: "the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life" (1 John 2:16). These are the motivations underneath every sinful institution and every corrupted culture. And they are not new. They mirror exactly what happened in the Garden of Eden. Eve saw that the fruit was good for food (desire of the flesh), pleasing to the eye (desire of the eyes), and desirable for gaining wisdom (pride of life). The fall was built on these three pillars, and every culture of lust, self-determination, and self-satisfaction since then has been a repetition of that original rebellion.

The world has built a system designed to feed these desires and keep people trapped in a dark feedback loop — craving, consuming, and craving more. It is the opposite of the holy feedback loop John has been describing, where remembering Jesus's sacrifice leads to loving others, which deepens assurance, which fuels more sacrificial love. Loving the world is, at its root, calling God a liar again — saying that his provision in Jesus is not enough, that real satisfaction must be seized for ourselves. But John ends with a quiet, devastating contrast: "The world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever" (1 John 2:17). Everything the world offers is temporary. The garden God is restoring — where his people abide with him, forgiven, assured, and free — lasts forever. Assurance in what Jesus has done is not just comfort for anxious souls; it is the antidote to sin itself. When believers truly know they are covered, loved, and safe in Jesus, the world's counterfeit promises lose their grip.

Transcript

Intro: [upbeat music] Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a ministry that's dedicated to speaking the gospel out of every corner of scripture. In Luke 24, Jesus told his disciples that every part of the Bible was about him. So each week, hosts David and Seth work through a passage of scripture to see how it's all about Jesus and his good news. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]

David: Well, welcome everyone to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. Seth, how are you today?

Seth: I'm doing good. This is officially-

David: Officially

Seth: ... our first podcast record on our brand-new equipment.

David: Yes, b- which 100% of it was bought by our podcast listeners.

Seth: So it's-

David: So thank you [laughs]

Seth: ... if you are one of the 67 people that helped us, thank you so, so much.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And if you're just a regular listen- listener, thank you so, so much. [laughs]

David: Also thank you for listening. Yeah. So, um, yeah, we're really excited to be coming to you off, off the new equipment.

Seth: If we sound better and sweeter, you know why.

David: Yeah, or if we sound the same-

Seth: You also know why

David: ... good, mission accomplished.

Seth: [laughs]

David: If we sound worse, we're s- dialing in the stuff.

Seth: Yeah, we're, yeah.

David: [laughs]

Seth: We're working on it.

David: So I don't know where we are in that range, but-

Seth: So

David: ... here we are, and where we are is in 1 John, moving into chapter two.

Seth: That's right. We ended last week on the tail end of John's comments about assurance and fighting against the false teachers.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And we're moving into a section about what it means to not sin.

David: What it means to not sin.

Seth: It's like I think most Christians would want to not sin-

David: Right

Seth: ... and, like, want to do the right thing.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And so John is really gonna lean in here and talk about not sinning, and he mean, 2:1, "I write this letter to you so that you may not sin."

David: [laughs] There you go. The, uh, the purpose-

Seth: That's what he says

David: ... one of the purposes of his letter is to keep his children, his f- his little flock-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... from sinning.

Seth: And one of the things that's interesting about John is he makes some pretty strong, like, statements about sinning.

David: Mm.

Seth: Like in 3:8, "Whoever abides in God does not sin."

David: Mm.

Seth: "He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. Whoever is born of God does not sin." These really emphatic, like, comments about sin.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And at the same time, he's gonna kinda unpack, well, what happens when we do sin?

David: Right.

Seth: So-

David: 'Cause it's like, well, wait, I thought I've been born of God. I thought I believed in Jesus. I thought I was a Christian.

Seth: Yes.

David: And yet I still sin?

Seth: Yes.

David: Am I not a Christian? Does that undercut my assurance?

Seth: That's exactly right.

David: Well, do you think that's something the, the antichrists or the secessionists, like, wanted them to believe? That, like... 'Cause we've talked about how, like, it was-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... sinlessness that these antichrists were proposing.

Seth: Yeah.

David: That, like, it was like-

Seth: "I don't have to confess my sins. I'm not doing anything wrong."

David: "I'm not doing, I'm not doing anything." Do you think they also-

Seth: "You're not doing anything wrong."

David: Yeah. Do, do you also think they were also, like, like, m- making them feel like they were really sinful, or that's what, that's probably what John's doing here-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... is being like, "No, you, there is sin in the world, and-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... you do struggle with it."

Seth: It's kinda hard to tell.

David: Yeah.

Seth: It could go both ways.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like, "Don't worry, that sin's not a problem, but the real sin is this one."

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: "And you're guilty of that one." Who knows which way it worked.

David: Sure.

Seth: And if it worked both ways, I'm sure it did.

David: [laughs]

Seth: Because, like, I don't know, I don't know one group of teachers, false or otherwise, that have certain moral obligations they want you to do, and certain bad guys and moral, like, opponents they want you to avoid.

David: Right.

Seth: So, like, it's probably works.

David: Probably both ways.

Seth: Works both ways.

David: Great.

Seth: So we ended kinda in the middle of Paul's tho- of John's thoughts. Not Paul. Uh, John's thoughts where he's speaking, "If we say..."

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: He's kinda putting words into the mouth of these false teachers.

David: Right.

Seth: This is in verse 10, "If we say we have not sinned, we make him," referring to God-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... "a liar, and his word is not in us." He's just said in the verse before, "If we say we have no sin, we actually are self-deceived. We deceive ourselves."

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: "And God's truth isn't in us." So he's, like, escalating, if we can, if we say we don't have anything wrong with us, if we just say we don't have a reason to repent, we're not only being self-deceived, you don't know yourself as well as you think you do-

David: Right

Seth: ... but you're also calling God a liar.

David: Right. So what are we w... Uh, like, the question that made me ask was, like, in what way are we saying God li- i- is a liar if we say that we have not sinned? Like, what's, what, what are we saying God has lied about?

Seth: I think what we're saying God has lied about is, like, the state of humanity.

David: Oh, that y- we are sinful. So if you say, God says you are sinful. If you say, "I have not sinned," then you're calling God a liar.

Seth: I, I think that's at most basic.

David: That's basic, yeah. That's good.

Seth: That it could be that. Do you have another idea?

David: I was thinking, 'cause it was, we were just told that, and we're going, and then he's going to talk about it right after this, that God sent Jesus to be the forgiver of our sins.

Seth: Mm-hmm, the atoning sacrifice.

David: That's right. And so, like, and when we have fellowship with him, the blood of Jesus purifies us from all sin and all unrighteousness. Well, if we say we've not sinned, then we're saying that we didn't need Jesus.

Seth: Uh-huh.

David: And so we're saying that God says that Jesus is the atoning sacrifice.

Seth: Right.

David: And we're saying, "Well, actually, I'm perfect," then we're calling God a liar, and in a sense we're claiming that Go- and, and, and again-

Seth: We're calling Jesus's-

David: Sacrifice-

Seth: ... for our sin a sham or-

David: A sham, worthless

Seth: ... or, yeah.

David: And, and to take it a step further, the word liar in 1 John often refers to what the antichrists are doing.

Seth: Uh-huh.

David: They are the liars.

Seth: Yes.

David: So antichrist and liars are almost synonymous in 1 John. And so in a sense-

Seth: Interesting

David: ... if we're saying that we have not sinned, we are calling God an antichrist, because-

Seth: Mm

David: ... he killed Jesus for no reason, or Jesus died for no reason. The atonement was pointless.

Seth: Uh-huh.

David: He must be against his own son-

Seth: Right

David: ... if Christ died for nothing.

Seth: Interesting.

David: So it's just like, whoa, like-

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah

David: ... if we say we haven't sinned, we're saying Christ died for nothing and that God is an antichrist, and it's like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... it just, the stakes got higher.

Seth: The stakes got really high. [laughs]

David: Yeah. [laughs]

Seth: And, uh, John will point out one of the things that these antichrists continue to talk about is the fact that Jesus did not come, or Jesus did not, God and the relationship with his son is messed up in some way-

David: Right

Seth: ... or at least inThese Christians understanding, and they're pushing against that. So to call God a liar isn't just to call God the Father a liar-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... but God the Son a liar-

David: Right

Seth: ... and what he accomplished for us.

David: Right.

Seth: Makes a lot of sense.

David: The cross was a lie.

Seth: Right.

David: Right, yeah.

Seth: So what I think is interesting is to jump from there.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: He says, "Okay, here's the problem with saying we haven't sinned. You make God a liar."

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: His transition statement is chapter two, verse one, "My little children, I am writing these things so that you may not sin."

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Which I, I, I, it always kinda throws me when I go from those two verses, and I, I don't know why all the time.

David: Yeah.

Seth: It's just like, okay, if we say we have not sinned, we make God a liar. But don't worry, I'm gonna tell you how not to sin.

David: R-

Seth: I thought the per-

David: Right

Seth: ... right? [laughs]

David: [laughs] Well, he's like, he's saying it's like there's a difference between claiming sinless perfection and, like, working towards sinless perfection.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: There's one thing to saying, he's like, "I, I haven't sinned," and another thing to say that, "God's freed me from sin." Like, that, or like-

Seth: Oh

David: ... I'm sinning less, or, you know, like-

Seth: Right. So you're saying that what, uh, John is getting at here is, like, there's... Something the cr- false teachers are saying is like, there's such a thing as you can just be totally free from sin and not guilty of anything before God.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And then John is saying, um, "No, you're not totally free from sin," in the way the antichrist mean.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: "But you're freed from the power of sin-"

David: Right

Seth: ... so that you can, over time, look more like Jesus."

David: Right.

Seth: Is that kinda what you're getting at?

David: Yeah, maybe. That it's like he's saying that, like, the, maybe the antichrist is saying, "The battle's done."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "There's no need to worry about how you live anymore because we've died to sin." Maybe, you know-

Seth: Yes

David: ... he could like, maybe they're quoting Paul wrong-

Seth: Right

David: ... and you know, and they're using his words against him. And like, "We're, we're dead to sin, so like, you can do whatever you want. You're free to do whatever you want, and none of it is actually sin." And, and John's like, "Hold on. The, the battle is still, still going on for how you live."

Seth: That makes sense, yes.

David: "But the goal is not for you to claim, like, ignorantly that, 'Oh, you know, I just don't sin anymore.'" And it's like, "No, no, no, you, you do, but I want you not to. [laughs] I want you to not-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... sin even though... Like, but the battle's still alive."

Seth: Yeah, the antichrist are placing the way in which we are freed from sin in the wrong place.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: By minimizing sin, denying sin. And John wants to, "No, no, like, you are free from sin, but not because of your perception of what's right and wrong, but what Christ has done on the cross."

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Which is exactly what he goes into the next verse.

David: That's right. So like, "I'm writing this so you won't sin, but if you do-"

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... which is kind of an assumed you will, because a few verses earlier, he said like, "We continually confess and live in the light," you know, "and as we do, the blood of Jesus forgives us and purifies us." So it's like he knows that Christians, even who are living in the light, continue to sin, so, but we don't... He wants you to sin less.

Seth: Yeah.

David: "But when you do sin, here's what happens." Verse one, "We have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the Righteous One."

Seth: That's it.

David: That's it.

Seth: That's it.

David: So a, an advocate is a, is like an interesting metaphor here-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... that he uses.

Seth: It's actually used in John's gospel-

David: Mm

Seth: ... to refer to the Holy Spirit. He's the helper.

David: Oh, right, the para- Is that paraclete?

Seth: Paraclete.

David: Yeah.

Seth: He's the helper.

David: Right, right, right.

Seth: He's the one who comforts us when we're doubting, or he assures us, reminds us of what Jesus' teachings are.

David: Yeah.

Seth: But here it's Jesus himself.

David: Right.

Seth: An advocate also has, like, that courtroom type of imagery.

David: Yep, paraclete, paralegal.

Seth: Yep.

David: Yeah. Yeah.

Seth: Yeah, he's like, he's on our behalf acting as our defense attorney-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... against the accusations of the prosecuting attorney, Satan or the false teachers or the antichrist. And he's saying, "No, Jesus Christ stands as your defense attorney before God himself claiming that you are innocent."

David: Mm.

Seth: Which is crazy, because we, he just admitted that we've sinned.

David: Right, yeah.

Seth: "And if you do sin, don't you realize that you have Jesus as your defense attorney saying that you're innocent before God the Father?"

David: Yeah, and it's like that, uh, opens a big question of like, well, how is that, how is Jesus not the liar now?

Seth: Uh-huh.

David: 'Cause I'm not innocent.

Seth: Well, and the, and-

David: And the, and there's a good thing verse two is here

Seth: ... the thing, verse two. [laughs] He is... Now, depending on your translations, a couple different things-

David: Right

Seth: ... are gonna happen here. If you have an NIV, it's gonna say, "Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for your sins."

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Or if you have an ESV or-

David: Is propitiation

Seth: ... propitiation for our sins. "And not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world."

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Um-

David: So before we jump into the whole world thing, 'cause that's gonna be a can of worms, but it's like, okay, we have this, we have two images of Jesus here, two metaphors in, in a sense-

Seth: Mm

David: ... where he is our lawyer, our advocate, right?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Uh, like in other extra-biblical, outside-the-Bible literature that use this word paraclete in a similar, uh, like, situation-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... it usually was to refer to a, like, a wealthier, well-respected person in the community-

Seth: Okay

David: ... who would come, um, before, like, a jury of peers. Uh, not necessarily in a legal courtroom-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... but, like, before their community, and they were accused of something. And this paraclete comes and says, "Hey, um, like, forgive him," or, "Don't hold this against him, not based on what he has done, but because I have such a high standing in this community."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, "I speak for him. He's okay."

Seth: He's okay.

David: Is what would happen.

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: And so, like, Jesus is doing that. He's the, the person of high standing in the world-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... going before the Father saying like, "Not based on what they've done, Father, but based on what I have done, like, on, for my name's sake-"

Seth: Yes. Yes

David: ... forgive them." And then in a sense, uh, you can almost hear this rhetorical question pinging back, which is, "On what grounds?"

Seth: That, that's, that's the prosecu-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... the prosecutor here.

David: The prosecuting attorney.

Seth: The s- the Satan, the accuser going-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... "Well, but on what grounds then can you say this person is innocent?"

David: 'Cause, yeah, they haven't lived an innocent life. And he's like, "Oh, well, I'm also their propitiation, their atoning sacrifice."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Which in a sense is another metaphor. It's, it's-

Seth: Yes, it is

David: ... not, not saying... I don't want anybody to hear me and say that I'm diminishing that, but he's pulling on the visual categories and the theological categories from Leviticus-

Seth: Yes

David: ... and from the, the, the Old Testament law.

Seth: The word is actually, uh, hilasmon-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... in Greek, which is, uh-The atonement

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: It means atonement. The day of atonement.

David: Right

Seth: Uh, the, the ark had a, a, a cover on it-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... which was called-

David: Called the hilasmón

Seth: ... the hilasmón.

David: Right

Seth: A d- a version of that word-

David: Of that word

Seth: ... right there.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So there's a really concrete, physical idea in people's mind of what-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... a covering was-

David: That's where-

Seth: ... of atonement

David: ... the blood was spilled-

Seth: Yes

David: ... to pay for your sin, to allow access into, i-

Seth: Co-

David: ... into God.

Seth: Yes, exactly right.

David: Yeah, and so it's like you could j- I just love that it's like you, you see the attorney saying like, or like the, this person of well-standing-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... saying like, "Don't judge them based on what they've done, but what I've done." And you're like, "But what, by what grounds?" It's like, "Oh, 'cause I've paid the fee, or I've, you know-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... I've sacrificed myself for..."

Seth: Yes

David: The, the metaphor gets fuzzy, but...

Seth: I was reading, uh, Peter Leithart about this-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and he talked about, okay, so atonement, the atonement cover.

David: Yeah

Seth: So atonement can just mean covering. Like, really basically-

David: Mm

Seth: ... like God covers over-

David: Right

Seth: ... your sin, and the way that that happened in the Old Testament was the priest would come up and sprinkle blood on the atonement cover, on the hilasmón.

David: That's right.

Seth: And then what's crazy, he's, he was saying like, "Well, think about the architecture, the design-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... of the covering." You had angels that were supposed to, God's feet were supposed to rest on.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: God would look down onto the earth, onto the atoning cover.

David: Oh, yeah.

Seth: And underneath the atoning cover was representations of God's people-

David: Mm

Seth: ... the law and the staff-

David: The staff of Aaron

Seth: ... and all this stuff.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And so what happened in that moment? God would look down through the blood of an animal and cover the sins of all of God's people-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... in that moment, on the Day of Atonement.

David: Right, and the broken law was in there.

Seth: And the broken law was in there.

David: Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Seth: So he was reading the broken relationship with God's-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... people through the blood-

David: Mm

Seth: ... of a sacrificial animal. So I love that really concrete image here, and I help- I think it actually helps make sense of, like, the whole world. Like, can Jesus real- does Jesus die for all the sins of the whole world? Is everyone going to be saved? Is that what this verse says?

David: Is this Universalism proved?

Seth: Right, but I think it's, like, this really concrete metaphor going back to the temple. Like, Jesus-

David: Oh

Seth: ... is the blood sprinkled. He is the covering that God looks through and sees a people who have broken the law-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and offered forgiveness through the sacrifice of His Son, Jesus.

David: Right, yes. Yeah, that's, that's a interesting way to, to see it is, like, since the tabernacle was a picture of the whole world-

Seth: Yes

David: ... God, yeah. It, it, yeah. It can't... W- uh, one, one commentator I read about this verse is... 'Cause a lot of p- a lot of people who want to, um, subscribe to Universalism-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... the idea that, um, or Christian Universalism-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... which is Jesus's death was effective to save everybody in the entire world, no matter what-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... um, they love this verse. But it's like, man, if, uh, but, uh, uh, one of the commentators I heard [laughs] said, uh, but i- it's easier to say what this verse isn't than what it is.

Seth: Okay.

David: Uh, so we know it can't be Universalism because of several things that John says in this letter itself. Like verse, uh, 11 of chapter five, "And this is the testimony that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son does not have life." It's just like you either are in or out-

Seth: This, right

David: ... based on if you have the Son or not.

Seth: Yeah, there's sort of-

David: And so there's-

Seth: ... abiding with the Son that is necessary.

David: Yes.

Seth: The hilasmón, the covering, the atonement is part of that.

David: Right.

Seth: But you have to be in that atonement, part of that atonement-

David: Right

Seth: ... under that atonement-

David: Yes

Seth: ... through that, yeah.

David: And so it's like, in a sense it's like also Israel, you know, who had the tabernacle, who had the Ark of the Covenant, who had the hilasmón in their midst-

Seth: Mm

David: ... was to be a light for the whole world. You know, like Abraham was to be a blessing to all nations.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: I.e., the whole world.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And so in a sense, when God saved Israel, he was saving and had plans to save the whole world.

Seth: Yeah.

David: That this is something that started in an epicenter with a people and was spreading outward.

Seth: Yeah.

David: In the same way, when Jesus died on the cross, it was particular for his disciples right then, but then it spread out across the whole world. Not in a Universalist sense every person, but every tribe, nation, language, tongue.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: There, God has always had a global span and view for how-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... he will bring people to himself.

Seth: Yeah, God is viewing the whole world, the blood of Jesus, even when the broken law, when their, their sin-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... is standing underneath it.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And, um, I think this is im- I think this is important because remember, let's remember the, the, who John is speaking to.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: People who are being told wrong things about sin, redefining sin, redefining good and evil, and they're confused about whether or not they're truly in God and how God-

David: Mm

Seth: ... sees them and knows them. This is, like, what's happening in the background. And so you have little children.

David: Yeah.

Seth: "I'm writing so that you won't sin." And now you have this picture of God viewing people and saying, "Hey, even when you do sin-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... there is a, a way for you."

David: There's a covering.

Seth: There's a covering for you. And I keep thinking about Martin Luther's-

David: Mm

Seth: ... quote when he sa- he says, "So go and sin boldly-"

David: Oh, right

Seth: "... knowing that you have forgiveness in God on their side." People get, like-

David: Very

Seth: ... freaked out by that.

David: Yes. [laughs]

Seth: But I think there's a sense, like, this is kinda what he's doing to people who are wondering if every sin sends them to hell.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: You don't need to worry about that.

David: Right.

Seth: You can sin knowing boldly that God will forgive you-

David: Right

Seth: ... when you trust in His Son.

David: Which is not a reason to sin. In fact, it's a reason to sin less.

Seth: It's a, yes.

David: Yes.

Seth: It's a reason to sin less, but it's not a reason to think that you are condemned-

David: Right

Seth: ... based on the actions of a bad day.

David: That's right. Yeah, that's good.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Okay. Is that, well, is that the end of this first se- you talked about different sections.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, this is like-

Seth: So he transitions here from talking about sin, but kinda not really-

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... because sin was in the background. It has been, like, in the foreground for all these chap- for all this moment, and now he's gonna talk about commandments.

David: Mm.

Seth: So the opposite of sin, obedience, right?

David: Oh, right, yeah.

Seth: So verse three, "And by this we know that we have come to know-"... if, uh, know God if we keep His commandments.

David: Mm.

Seth: So-

David: So like, okay, so this is a really great question, right? A great rhetorical question in a sense where it's like if you have, if you, if, if, if John's writing to a church full of people skeptical about their position with God-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... 'cause they have all these antichrists, all these secessionists, all these false teachers saying, like-

Seth: You've got an accuser.

David: Yeah

Seth: 'Cause you got an internal critic that's like-

David: And they're like, "You know, we, we have the right doctrine over here."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: You know? And like, "You need to subscribe to what we're saying or else you actually don't know God at all." And then you can imagine what like a balm, verse three-

Seth: Mm

David: ... would feel like-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... when it's like, "Okay, guys, can I just tell you, this is how you know that you know God. This is it." They say, you know, simple litmus test, if you keep His commandments.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And it's like, "Oh, okay. Thank you. That's helpful."

Seth: The tricky part is when we disobey.

David: Right.

Seth: So w-

David: But he's already handled that.

Seth: He's already handled that.

David: Yeah. [laughs]

Seth: But so, so if your, if your disobedience has been covered by forgiveness-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... your-

David: [laughs] Right

Seth: ... i- if, if your disobedience has been covered by God's forgiveness in Jesus Christ, your obedience is only further proof-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... that God has done that.

David: Yep

Seth: As God is doing a good work in you, and that you are part of Him and with Him.

David: Yeah, it's interesting. He's hemming them in from both sides with, uh, with assurance.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Because on the one hand, they could say, "My sin disqualifies me from being a child of God."

Seth: Yeah.

David: And he's saying, "No, it doesn't because there's a covering."

Seth: Mm.

David: "You have an advocate, and there's atonement."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Uh, but then on the other side, it, it, it's like, but I don't... Like, but like how do I, then how do I know? You know? Or, or-

Seth: And that was some invisible thing that happened 2,000 years ago on the cross, so how do I know?

David: Right. Or even, or even like, I wonder if, I wonder like how the, the antichrists try to differentiate themselves.

Seth: Mm.

David: You know, it's like, "We are better o- at obeying," or I don't know, you know? But it's like this other side of like, okay, so I know my sin doesn't condemn me, right?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: So I'm back to neutral, but then how do I get like a positive out of this?

Seth: Yeah, yeah.

David: Like how do I have assurance? I know I'm not condemned. How do I know I'm saved?

Seth: Yes.

David: Maybe that's the way to say it.

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David: It's like, okay, you're not condemned because there was a covering, but how do I know I'm saved? Well, if you obey.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And yeah, it's interesting.

Seth: Interesting.

David: And then as soon as you cross that line into like, but what if I don't obey enough or-

Seth: Right

David: ... or like-

Seth: It's like, well, go back to point one. [laughs]

David: Go back to point one. See point one.

Seth: [laughs]

David: There's a covering.

Seth: I also think it's interesting, "And by this we know that we know we've come to know Him-"

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... "if we keep His commandments." Like, I think that first know, I think he's using know in two different ways, which is kind of confusing.

David: Mm.

Seth: So like how do we know we're assured? How do we know that we c- have... How do we fully experience union with God? Well, when we come to keep His commandments.

David: Right.

Seth: His command- keeping His commandment isn't just proof that we are saved, it's actually how we experience God Himself.

David: Mm.

Seth: Part of experiencing the fullness of God and the assurance of God is by doing His commandments.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Um, and then the next verse, because he says, "Well, if you say, 'I know Him,' but don't keep His commandments, what you're gonna experience is lies."

David: Mm.

Seth: You're gonna experience the lack of truth, the lack of assurance. "But whoever keeps God's word, in him truly the love of God is perfected."

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: What do these people want to know? Does God still love me?

David: Right.

Seth: What do you want to know? Does God still love me? Yes.

David: Mm.

Seth: And as you obey, you experience more of that love. And when you fall short of that new attempt at obedience, God forgives you, fills you with more of His Spirit, allows you to do more keeping of the commands-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... to experience more assurance of Him.

David: That's really good. Another thing that might be happening between the, like there was a covering, you know?

Seth: Uh-huh.

David: And then there's commandments that were, uh, this like, between verses two and verse three, uh, is one, one commentator I read pointed out that, um, you could ask the question then. So it's like, I'm looking for assurance. You're writing this to me so that I might know, and then it's like, I'm writing you this so you, so you won't sin, but if you do sin, there's a covering. And so it's like, uh, and you're saying that like the liars, the antichrists, they, we know they're wrong because they deny sinning, right?

Seth: Yep.

David: They don't sin.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: They claim to not sin.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: So then is my assurance in the fact that I do sin?

Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

David: You know what I... Like, so it's like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... okay, so I sin, so therefore I'm a Christian?

Seth: Right.

David: That does, that's not where I want to put my assurance.

Seth: Right.

David: And so it's like you're telling me to n- name that I do sin, that liars deny sinning, so is my basis of my Christian assurance based on the fact that I struggle with sin? And it's like, okay, maybe partially-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... but that's not where your assurance lies. Your assurance lies in your obedience-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... that you also don't sin.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And so it's just like an interesting balancing act there.

Seth: Yeah. Yeah, you confess your sin-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... because you know you need help.

David: Right.

Seth: You're not hiding that fact. God is gracious to forgive you, gracious to give you more of His, of His Spirit. You go on continuing to do, keep his command, walk as He walked-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... which is the ne- very next verse, and God is gracious to repeat that cycle over and over and over again.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And that's how you're assured. And let's pause right here.

David: Okay.

Seth: Assurance-

David: Mm

Seth: ... as a, we've just assumed that assurance is good news.

David: Oh, sure. Don't you wanna know that you're okay with God? [laughs]

Seth: Christianity is, I, I, from my study-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... Christianity is the only religion that offers assurance of salvation and life with God before you die.

David: Mm.

Seth: Because-

David: I mean, at least one of the only major religion, 'cause I would say, like, u- a universalist Unitarian would-

Seth: Yes

David: ... would say, yeah.

Seth: But even then, a lot of universalism is like how do you kn- like, yes, like-

David: It, it, it's, it's, it's maybe, maybe it's the only religion that gives you particular assurance.

Seth: Right.

David: Right.

Seth: Because most world religions have a certain ethical-

David: Right

Seth: ... commandment that you have to live up to. I was talking to an imam one time-

David: Mm

Seth: ... and I was like, we were talking about the five pillars of Islam, and I was like, "Well, what happens if I... How do I know if I've kept enough of the commands-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... to c- go into paradise?" He's like, "Oh, you'll never know-"

David: Right

Seth: "... until you get that, to that day."

David: Yeah.

Seth: You actually won't know if you achieve moksha or nirvana.

David: Right.

Seth: You actually don't know if you've broken free from the cycle of reincarnation until one day you get there.

David: Mm.

Seth: Like, in every other major world religion, you cannot have assurance in this life. You are in God-... except Christianity.

David: It's interesting, even, even, uh, Old Testament Judaism-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... had this co- this conditional covenant.

Seth: Mm.

David: You know, where it's like, "If you keep my commandments, it'll go well for you and you'll live long in the land. But if you don't, you'll be kicked out." And it's just like, are we gonna be kicked out? We won't know.

Seth: We won't know.

David: Is Sally down the road breaking the commandments? [laughs] You know? Like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... so it is, there was always that tenuous what if, how can I know for sure that I'll be okay?

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah. And yeah, so then it's really good news then that Christianity offers, um, assurance.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And that it's not, and that, and also that it's not a psychological assurance.

Seth: That's exactly right.

David: That it's like, "You're, you're gonna be okay. You know, it's, you're fine."

Seth: "You're gonna be fine."

David: No.

Seth: Which I think is universalism.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: That's all they can offer-

David: That's right

Seth: ... is psychological assurance.

David: Yeah. Uh-

Seth: Because they don't believe the functional power of the atoning work of Christ.

David: That's right.

Seth: All you can have is psychological assurance-

David: Mm

Seth: ... that the end of time will work out for you.

David: Yeah, and then whenever you, you get depressed and you get in a corner, and you say, "But how do I know that I know that I know that I'm okay?"

Seth: Right.

David: And Christianity offers a real, historical, physical proof that you're okay.

Seth: Jesus died.

David: Yeah.

Seth: His blood is your cover.

David: And he rose again. You are okay.

Seth: You are okay.

David: You put your stake there, assurance is yours. [gentle music]

Seth: Okay, so we know that we have to keep a k- keeping the commandments-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... are part of our assurance.

David: Yes.

Seth: But what precisely is, are we being commanded to do?

David: Yeah, which, which commandment? Like-

Seth: All of them?

David: All of them.

Seth: Some of them?

David: S- yeah. [laughs] That's so good, yeah. Which command gives, that I obey, gives me assurance [laughs] that I'm safe? A lot's riding on this.

Seth: Yes.

David: I need to know. Yeah, that's really good. So yeah, the, he breaks it down for us, right?

Seth: Right. It's the very next verse.

David: Right.

Seth: Like, w- I've asked a hypothetical question that's not in the text-

David: Yes

Seth: ... which he is assuming we're asking-

David: Yes

Seth: ... and leading into verse 7.

David: Right, which says, "Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard." Okay.

Seth: Super, super fun.

David: Yeah. Especially then he, when he says, "But at the same time, it's also a new commandment."

Seth: Right.

David: And it's like, wait, hold on. [laughs] I'm so confused.

Seth: I think he's referencing John 13:34-

David: Definitely

Seth: ... where Jesus-

David: Quotes an old commandment

Seth: ... an old commandment-

David: And says it's new

Seth: ... and says it's a new commandment.

David: [laughs] Yes.

Seth: Because it's being fulfilled in him-

David: Right

Seth: ... as he's washing his disciples' feet.

David: Well, and also, the reason why it's an old commandment in a new commandment, the, the, the commandment is what? Love your-

Seth: Love your, love your neighbor

David: ... love your neighbor as yourself-

Seth: Yes

David: ... was the old commandment.

Seth: Ah, yes, yes, yes.

David: But the new commandment is love your neighbor as I have loved you.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: So it's a higher calling.

Seth: It is a higher calling.

David: Yeah, it's like, oh, love your neighbor as you love yourself. You feed yourself, feed your neighbor.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: You clothe yourself, clothe your neighbor. But how has Jesus loved us? He died for us. He gave everything for us.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: You, like, that's how I want you to love your neighbor.

Seth: Yes.

David: It's like, oh, that's a ratcheting up.

Seth: That is a ratcheting up.

David: So it's an old commandment in that love your neighbor as yourself is a, is an old idea, but it's also new 'cause Jesus ramped it up.

Seth: Yes.

David: And, and fulfilled it.

Seth: And, and I th- this g- goes to exactly what you're saying. He also says, "This commandment is the word that you have heard."

David: Yes.

Seth: Which is a callback to 1 John-

David: That's right

Seth: ... chapter 1, verse 5. "This is the message that you have heard and proclaimed to you, that God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all." Like, John sums up the whole gospel message in those three words.

David: Mm.

Seth: God is light, and we unpacked that all in last week's podcast.

David: Yes.

Seth: It's like, that word, that God is light, the gospel message-

David: That's the commandment

Seth: ... that's the command.

David: Mm.

Seth: The commandment is the gospel.

David: Yes.

Seth: I'm like, wait, what?

David: Hold on. [laughs]

Seth: What do you mean by that?

David: Yes.

Seth: At the same time... Oh, sorry. Um, oh, verse eight continues the confusion a little bit.

David: Yeah. [laughs]

Seth: "At the same time, it is a new commandment that I'm writing to you, which is true in Him and in you-

David: Mm

Seth: ... because the darkness is passing away, God is light-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and the true light is already shining-

David: Mm

Seth: ... in Jesus Christ."

David: So it's interesting. It's like he's... I think you, you can follow the train of thought here, where it's like, "I'm writing to no new commandment but an old commandment, and here's the commandment." The, what's the old commandment that would pop into someone, a Jewish reader's head? It would be, "Oh, yeah, love your neighbor as yourself."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "Got it." And he's like, "Yeah, and that commandment is fulfilled in the word that you've heard. That commandment was fulfilled typologically, prophetically, however, in Jesus."

Seth: God is light.

David: "He is the one who loved you-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... as he loved himself."

Seth: That's right.

David: Right, which is an amazing thing for God to do, 'cause, like... Anyway, without getting into, like, all the Christian hedonism, everything-

Seth: Yeah, yeah

David: ... where it's like, how does God love himself? He loves himself as the s- most supreme good-

Seth: Oh, gosh, yes

David: ... best being, and he loves us like that? Whoa. That's crazy to think about God loving us as he loves himself, is just crazy to think about that.

Seth: It is crazy to think about that. [laughs]

David: That just threw me for a little sidestep loop.

Seth: You went on a theological, like, tangent in your mind for a second.

David: [laughs]

Seth: Like, I'm worshiping right now.

David: Hold on a second.

Seth: This is another thing.

David: [laughs] Uh, so then he's, like, and then it's like you can almost see John processing in real time, where it's like, "Okay, so God loved you as he loved himself. That's the, that's the old commandment, and it's in Jesus, the Word."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "That's happening. Oh, at the same time, that's, that's a, that is actually the new commandment that I wrote about in my gospel that Jesus said, because he said that he laid his life down for you."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "That's what I'm talking about."

Seth: Yes.

David: "That's the command. Jesus laid his life down for you and loves you so much. Obey that commandment."

Seth: Is, is that, is that a-

David: Is that a command?

Seth: ... is that a, is that a gospel to be proclaimed-

David: Yeah. [laughs]

Seth: ... or, uh, a commandment to do?

David: A commandment to be obeyed, yeah. Yeah, it's, it's confu- so what, so that mean, that's the question to ask, then. So what does it mean to obey the gospel?

Seth: Well, so he says it. The darkness is passing away-

David: Okay

Seth: ... because the light of God has come in Jesus. The darkness is passing away, and the true light is now shining from his, from the empty tomb.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Jesus, as the one who loves us as he loves himself, is living and reigning in the heavens.

David: Mm.

Seth: Whoever says he is in that light-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: And hates his brother is still in the dark

David: So he's still pulling on that old command.

Seth: He's-

David: Like, the actual command.

Seth: Yes.

David: Love, love your neighbor as Christ has loved you. So I mean, there is an ethical way you live your life component-

Seth: Yes

David: ... to being a gospel believer.

Seth: You cannot be in the light that died for you-

David: Mm

Seth: ... and not die for others.

David: Right.

Seth: You can't walk in that light if your life doesn't reflect the sacrificial love of Jesus.

David: Yep.

Seth: Like, it's impo- it's, it's a lie.

David: Yeah, you can't live in two realities.

Seth: You can't.

David: You can't be in light and dark.

Seth: That's exactly-

David: It's one or the other. You're cut from this cloth or that cloth.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Yeah, okay, that's helpful.

Seth: So whoever loves his brother then abides in the light.

David: Right.

Seth: Which is exactly what we just said.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And in him, there is no cause for stumbling.

David: Mm.

Seth: So this kind... We don't know if we talked about this last week, but part of what light does is it guides.

David: Oh, right.

Seth: It provides-

David: Yeah. Thi-

Seth: A-

David: "Thy word is a lamp or a light unto my feet."

Seth: Even, like, God revealing himself as light to the Israelites in the wilderness-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and the pillar of fire.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: He guided them through the dark nights in the wilderness. Like-

David: He, he ushered in all of creation into existence by saying, "Let there be light."

Seth: That's exactly right.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So whenever you love your brother, you are living out as a light in yourself, but you are following the light-

David: Mm

Seth: ... that has created the world, has guided God's people for centuries.

David: Right.

Seth: Like, that's how you know which way you're going-

David: Right

Seth: ... is by loving God.

David: That's helpful, then. So it's like, okay, so how... What does it look like to obey his commandments? 'Cause that's... Okay, let's kinda go back-

Seth: Mm

David: ... 'cause we're saying our assurance is based on whether or not we obey the commandment.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: What is the commandment? That Jesus died for you.

Seth: Mm.

David: That's so- And, and then but how do you obey that? By being the, by being like Jesus.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: By being like the one who died for you.

Seth: Walking as he walked.

David: Right.

Seth: Walking in the light.

David: And then-

Seth: Being like the light

David: ... but how do I as a sinful human, uh, not stumble in the darkness? How do I not go back to hating people?

Seth: Yep.

David: You know, how do I love others? And it's, it's by the word that you've heard. I think, I think it's by remembering everything that he said. It's like, like by abiding in Christ-

Seth: Ah, I see what you're saying, yes

David: ... you know, it's like by abiding in Christ, you won't hate your brother.

Seth: Yeah, there's a double way to be assured of your salvation, by remembering that God as, Jesus as your brother died for you-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and by loving your own brother.

David: Right.

Seth: Those are dual realities. Like, he's hedging your bets. How do you... When you fail to love your brother, well, remember that Jesus, your brother, died for you.

David: That's right.

Seth: And now go love your brother around you.

David: Right.

Seth: And as you love your brother more and more, you'll be more reminded of the fact that Jesus, your brother, died for you. You will be filled with more of that brotherly love by his Spirit, and you will continue to love others. And you have this cycle of remembering and being filled by and loving-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... sacrificially your brother, which is, by the way, is just a symbolic way to talk about your neighbor-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and those around you.

David: Oh, right.

Seth: It doesn't have to just be, like, a physical brother.

David: Yes. Yeah.

Seth: Wanted that to be said. [laughs]

David: Well, that was... I don't even know if that's what I was aiming at, but that's way better.

Seth: Oh. [laughs]

David: I have no idea. But that was like, yeah, that's really good. I really love that.

Seth: The Spirit is, like, hidden in this book.

David: Mm.

Seth: 'Cause I keep thinking about that. It's like, well, what mechanism? Like-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... how does this work out? Well, the Spirit, obviously.

David: Right.

Seth: He fills us with this love. We abide in him. We're with him. We have fellowship with him. He's, like, this assumed member of this, of like-

David: Mm

Seth: ... of our assurance that's not really talked about, which I think is odd, but-

David: Well, I wonder if because of the heresy that centered around the father-son dynamic from the antichrist-

Seth: Uh-huh

David: ... he, he just wanted to double down on the father-son relationship that existed between father and son in Jesus and the Father.

Seth: Yeah. And then just to cap this point off before we kinda move into the next section.

David: Mm.

Seth: Verse 11 says, "But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness and doesn't know where he's going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes." Loving your brother guides you-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... gives you light, kn- lets you know where you're going. But not loving your brother only increases your sense of alienation from God.

David: Oh, interesting. So in the same way that we love our brother-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and that confirms the fact that we've been loved by Jesus and makes us love our brother more-

Seth: Yes

David: ... in the same way, when we hate our brother, we actually sink further and further into darkness and despair and disassurance.

Seth: Mm-hmm. Yes, because what are we doing in that moment when we fail to love our brother? We're denying that Jesus as our brother died for us-

David: That's right

Seth: ... and that his, his death means anything.

David: We're living in the dark.

Seth: We're living in the dark.

David: Which is another, like, could be another metaphor in John for a lack of assurance.

Seth: It could be.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Yes.

David: That's interesting.

Seth: Yes. That's exactly right.

David: So yeah, which is just like you wanna, you wanna know that you're saved. You know? [laughs] You want assurance. So, like, just love people around you, and it's like I think the-

Seth: Love sacrificially unto death people around you.

David: Yes. Right.

Seth: I think, like, that's-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... important to say.

David: I think o- one thing that comes up here then for me is like, uh, and I... And the answer's self-evident, right? It's, it's like, well, because Jesus died for us. But the question still gets asked to me, which is like how is that not works-based salvation or works-based assurance, where it's like-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... h- how do I know I'm saved based on how I'm obeying the commandment to love my brother?

Seth: Uh-huh.

David: And it's like, so if I wanna know that I'm saved, I better love everybody around me really well.

Seth: Mm-hmm. Right.

David: Right? But that's, like, n- not the-

Seth: But I think-

David: ... whole equation, is it?

Seth: It's not the whole equa- It's, it's reductionistic to say-

David: Yes

Seth: ... that's what John's saying.

David: Yes.

Seth: John has... I think he's done a good job of, like, confirming us in the covering of Jesus Christ while also talking about the role obedience and love play in our assurance.

David: Mm.

Seth: Because salvation and assurance aren't the same thing. We can't earn our salvation. Good works don't contribute to our salvation.

David: Right.

Seth: Good works are a necessary outflow of our salvation.

David: Mm. They're proof of our salvation.

Seth: They're proof of our salvation.

David: Yep.

Seth: But, like, when it comes to the, the... And assurance is like a psychological thing.

David: Oh, it's true.

Seth: Where John was like, "How do I know I'm saved?" Like-

David: Yep

Seth: ... "How do I know God loves me?" It's like, well, that is a different kinda question to the one, "Are-

David: Mm.

Seth: ... am I saved or not?"

David: Oh, true. From a legalistic yes or no, check a box question is different than the assurance question.

Seth: Yes. So-

David: Am I is different than how do I know.

Seth: Yes.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And so I think that's what he's doing there. It's like good works, loving your neighbor, sacrificially dying for them, functions as a way to know you're saved-

David: Mm, mm

Seth: ... not as a way to, to earn your salvation-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... but as a way to be reminded of the salvation Jesus al- already done for you and to assure you that you truly are his.

David: Yes.

Seth: Because you're walking away with him.

David: Yeah.

Seth: You're like your brother right now.

David: Right.

Seth: Right?

David: Well, it's kind of like another way to put it is, like, how do I know-... that this is a healthy apple tree

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Does- are there apples on it?

Seth: Yeah.

David: Do they taste good?

Seth: Yeah.

David: You know, it's like you'll know a tree by its root, you know? And it's like you don't go to, to a, an oak tree-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and just start impaling apples on the limbs and be like, "I've made an apple tree."

Seth: Right.

David: No, you haven't. [laughs] Like-

Seth: Yes, you have. [laughs]

David: No, you haven't. [laughs]

Seth: Yeah.

David: Monty Python quote for-

Seth: If you don't have it-

David: ... no one knows

Seth: ... go onto [laughs] Monty Python. Just type it into YouTube, Monty Python. It's just argument, I think.

David: Yeah, I think just argument.

Seth: It is-

David: You'll find it

Seth: ... really funny. [laughs]

David: It's very funny. Anyway, we quote it a lot.

Seth: [laughs]

David: Okay, great.

Seth: Um-

David: I think, I feel settled there.

Seth: Great. And so maybe just to cap off this section and to go back to how I started, like, what does it mean to not sin?

David: Oh, yeah, okay.

Seth: We're gonna kind of finish that conversation when we do not love the world.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: We talked about loving our brother here. We'll talk about not loving the world in a second. But John has done a really clever way of designing everything that we've just read. So he started chapter one, verse five, which we started last week-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... by talking about light and darkness. We just had a section here ending with light and darkness. There's a whole section about sin and forgiveness, and then there was a whole section about keeping the commandment. And then we had like, "Here's the new commandment."

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: But you know what the one thing in that, like, repetition, like, chiastic flow is missing? Is a corresponding section about sin. So you have light and darkness at the beginning-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... light and darkness at the end.

David: Okay.

Seth: You have keeping the commandments and the new commandments in the middle.

David: Oh, yes.

Seth: And then-

David: What's at the dead center?

Seth: The dead center is walk as he walked.

David: Okay. Okay.

Seth: That's like the, that's the synopsis. Walk as Jesus walked.

David: Okay.

Seth: Walk as God walked.

David: Yep.

Seth: But right after light and darkness, there's a section about sin and forgiveness-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... in chapter one, verse eight, leading up to Jesus is the Holos Emman.

David: Oh, right. Yeah.

Seth: There is nothing about sin in the back half of the chiasm.

David: Huh.

Seth: It's almost as if he's hinting at what he says later on. Those that know God do not sin.

David: Mm.

Seth: Sin has been erased from his literary structure-

David: Wow

Seth: ... because in the life of the believer, sin has been erased by the loving presence of God, and the guilt or unassurance of not knowing or how to-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... how much sin is too much or whatever is taken away by the fact that we love our neighbor, love our brother.

David: That's cool.

Seth: I thought that was cool too.

David: That's really cool. I'm trying to, like, figure out a way to bring that down-

Seth: [laughs] Yeah

David: ... to our listeners who aren't obsessed with chiasms like we are. Uh, but I'm, I'm struggling. But it's kind of like, uh, if, if you were just following along with the really predictable plot of a movie-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... and they yanked out that one piece that's always a part of the formula to prove a point.

Seth: Yes.

David: And it's like, uh, oh, y- here we go.

Seth: Mm.

David: It's, it's Frozen.

Seth: Okay.

David: It's the Frozen movie.

Seth: Okay.

David: And you thought that Hans, the, the prince-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... that Anna loves-

Seth: Yes

David: ... was, was going to be true love's first kiss, and it's-

Seth: Yep

David: ... gonna solve everything and thaw a frozen heart, and actually he's the bad guy. And it's actually, like, her self-sacrificial love for her sister that thaws her heart. They flipped the standard Disney script-

Seth: Yes. That's exactly right

David: ... of, like, kiss the prince. True love's kiss will thaw your heart. And, like, no, and they did it for a reason, to make a point.

Seth: To make a point.

David: And it stood out to everybody. And, and, and that's what John's doing. He's building this very, very clear chiasm, which to a Hebrew reader is like, "Yes, I know. I've seen this before."

Seth: Yeah.

David: La, di, da, di, what? And it's like, where's the sin part?

Seth: Right.

David: And he's like, "It's been erased."

Seth: And, uh, yeah.

David: Yeah.

Seth: That's exactly right.

David: That's cool. That's cool.

Seth: It's pretty-

David: I didn't see that. That's pretty neat

Seth: ... it's pretty cool. I thought it was cool too. Like, everything has a parallel. Light and darkness has a parallel.

David: Right.

Seth: S- the commandments have a parallel. You have this middle section about k- keeping-

David: Or following Jesus

Seth: ... following Jesus.

David: Yep.

Seth: But you don't have a parallel-

David: Parallel to the sin section.

Seth: That's cool, because you've been forgiven.

David: You've been forgiven. The Holos Emman is there.

Seth: Yes.

David: That's cool. Okay. So are we about to go into the last section?

Seth: Yes.

David: All right. Here we go. [gentle music] Okay. So, uh, now we're entering into this last section that we're gonna cover today, and it's this... And we, I think we teased it in the introduction episode of 1 John. This is this, like, sweet poem that he writes to this church that he loves.

Seth: Yep.

David: Uh, and he, and he starts off by referencing, um, the members of the congregation with this, uh, term that he uses throughout the letter, technia, uh-

Seth: Children

David: ... which is little, dear-

Seth: Yes

David: ... sweet, tiny children.

Seth: Darling.

David: Yeah, darling chi- my darling children. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's not the, the typical word for child in Greek.

Seth: Yeah.

David: It's a, it's a term of endearment. And so, um, he, he's not saying like, uh, 'cause he's gonna, he's gonna reference what looks like three groups.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Little children-

Seth: Fathers

David: ... fathers, young men.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: But little children is church.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Is all the people, and then he's gonna talk to the older people in the church, the fathers, and he's gonna talk to the younger people in the church.

Seth: It's a family.

David: It's family, so he's talking to, like, "Hey, hey, church," uh-

Seth: Which is significant because-

David: Oh, yeah, yeah

Seth: ... he's talked about brothers.

David: Oh, right.

Seth: Love your brother.

David: And now he's gonna sh- now he's gonna, like, show love to his-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... to his brothers.

Seth: Yes.

David: Yeah. Okay.

Seth: Your fathers who are brothers, and you're the young men who are brothers.

David: Yeah.

Seth: The children who are brothers, yeah.

David: Right. So he's gonna say, "I'm writing to you, church, little children. Why? [laughs] Because your sins are forgiven for his name's sake. Uh, I'm writing to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I'm writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one." I mean, it's just like he, he's, he's singling people out in a sense.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, he wants people to he- like, perk their ears up at this point, and be like, "Hey, I'm writing to you. Listen."

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: You know? And then he gives them a definitive statement about their standing before God.

Seth: Yep.

David: And it's like this is just an assurance song.

Seth: Yeah.

David: He's singing assurance over them.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: "Hey, you have been forgiven. You do know God. You have overcome the evil one." You know? And it's like, man, that's like, thank you, John. I really needed to hear that, you know? It's like we've been talking this whole time, how do I know that I'm saved? These antichrists have said that I'm, I'm not. The chiasm ends. Sin is gone. Uh, how do I know? Okay, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll obey the commandments, and that is how I'll know I'm assured.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Uh, and then you just... Even I, af- after wrapping the last sect- section, I'm just like, okay, my brain's, like, trying to hold all these things together. And then I just kinda, like, get to stop and let John sing assurance over me.

Seth: It's nice.

David: It's very nice.

Seth: It's-

David: A good pastoral move by John

Seth: ... it's a good pastoral move by John. And I also think it does an-A different type of a work of assurance, the assurance that you're describing.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: But it also assures the community that they have, within their own selves, different ways to be assured.

David: Mm.

Seth: Little children... You're all little children-

David: Right

Seth: ... and you've all been forgiven of sin.

David: Right.

Seth: Fathers, you know who Him who is from the beginning. These young guns out here-

David: [laughs]

Seth: ... they don't know what it's like to suffer. They don't know what it's like to have trials and tribulations. You've been through it. You knew Him who is from beginning. You, young ones, look to the fathers. They know the, the God who will-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... pre- preserve you. And I'm writing to you young men because you've overcome the evil one. The old gods are too stayed in their ways.

David: [laughs]

Seth: They, like, they're a little too conservative. They don't know what it's like to be zeal- zealous and passionate, and they're looking to you to provide that. I don't, I don't know how much of a central focus that was-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... but I think the fact that he's singling out the whole church about their forgiveness and sin-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and then singling out fathers and young men.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: It's like, oh, you're actually telling the young men what to be encouraged by, by the fathers, and you're telling the fathers how to be encouraged by the young men.

David: Mm.

Seth: Which I think is an, is, it's an assurance psalm.

David: Yeah.

Seth: He's doing a whole bunch of work here.

David: Yeah. I- is ano- another way that he's assuring them differently here, too, is just, like, he's been assuring them with logic and theology.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: You know?

Seth: Yes.

David: It's like, okay, let's lay out an argument. I- it's even in a chiasm. Like, this is a tight two, like one-and-a-half chapter argument for how you know that you, you, you are saved and the antichrists are wrong, and it's like, okay, did you guys get that? It's like, let's try it another way. Let me just tell you, sweet little children, everything's okay. Jesus died for your sins. You know who God is. You've overcome the evil one. It's true. Take rest.

Seth: There's a community around you who knows this God-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... who's fighting the devil.

David: There's- [laughs]

Seth: And you're, we're, we're g- we're gonna get through it.

David: Yeah. It was like, you think about, like, different types of learners, you know-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and everything, and it's just like, oh, thank you.

Seth: For the poets in the audience.

David: For the poets in the audience.

Seth: Let me give you this... [laughs]

David: [laughs]

Seth: Let, let's let me spit a rhyme. Um, fun, like, uh, detail thing here.

David: Mm.

Seth: So this is a whole bunch of threes.

David: Yes.

Seth: Uh, little children, fathers, and young men.

David: Uh-huh.

Seth: It's a triad, a triad.

David: Right.

Seth: And he does it twice.

David: Yes.

Seth: And in the second triad, when he speaks to the third group, young men, he gives three things rather than just one thing.

David: Mm.

Seth: I write to you, young men, because you are strong, the Word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

David: Mm.

Seth: And that leads into a section about overcoming the world-

David: Yes

Seth: ... which is also full of triads.

David: Oh, right.

Seth: The world is mentioned six times.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Love is mentioned three times. Lust is mentioned three times. God is mentioned three times.

David: Oh.

Seth: So you have this poem of threes leading to a way to overcome the world talked about in groups of threes.

David: Wow. Is there-

Seth: [laughs]

David: I- in a sense that there was, like, a theological point that John was making when he yanked out sin from the chiasm, like, what's happening here?

Seth: I have been trying to think about-

David: [laughs]

Seth: ... like, why threes, John? And I don't have a great one.

David: We'll put it to our audience.

Seth: We'll put it to our... If you can figure out why three, it, it could've been Jo- John being clever and, like-

David: Yeah, just beautiful.

Seth: It's beautiful.

David: It's just good writing.

Seth: It's just good writing.

David: Good Hebrew writing.

Seth: And I wish I could've been smart enough to even think of that as a, [laughs] as a-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... as a device.

David: That's really good.

Seth: Um, and, like, 'cause beauty is its own kind of... As we were saying, like, there's a m- the aesthetic quality of a poem-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... assures us in a different way.

David: It does. It makes us feel like there's order in the world.

Seth: Yes.

David: And it's like, okay, things are gonna be okay and come together right. But hey, if you have any thoughts, podcast audience, of why, uh, John is using groups of three from 12, uh, from chapter 2:12 through 17, send us an email at-

Seth: Send us-

David: ... [email protected]. We'd love to hear from you. [laughs]

Seth: We'd love to hear... [laughs] Or we could just go study for another four hours and figure it out.

David: Or we could just go read some more commentaries.

Seth: We'll just wait for your emails.

David: Yeah. [laughs] Instead, you guys do the work. [laughs]

Seth: You guys do it for us.

David: That's good. Uh, okay. Yeah, awesome. So he's, he, he triples down with the young men at the end.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: You're strong. God's Word abides in you. You've overcome the evil one. Now, let's talk about overcoming the world.

Seth: That's right.

David: Okay, so verses 15 through 17 talk about overcoming the world. Um, interesting.

Seth: So do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, that's, world's already been said three times.

David: Mm.

Seth: The love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and the pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.

David: Oh, so again, in verse 17, we have that repetition of the light is already shining.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: The darkness is already fleeing. That's how you know you've won.

Seth: Mm.

David: Again, the world is passing away. God's will abides forever. Uh, he c- he continues to pull on that theme.

Seth: You're overcoming them.

David: Yeah.

Seth: God's Word abides in you. God abides forever.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Like, all the same themes are being woven in here.

David: Even that theme of... And you could even read that theme into, like, um, I write this to you that you won't sin, but if you do sin, you know, and that feedback loop of the more we have assurance in what Jesus has done for us as our hellas mon, the less we sin.

Seth: Mm.

David: And the more we do that, the more we love our brother. And it's like, oh, the darkness is fleeing. The light is coming. The victory's been won, and now we're in the process of taking more ground.

Seth: Yes.

David: And so it's like, what does that look like? It means not loving the world, not giving your heart to the world.

Seth: Love isn't just loving your brother-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... but it's not loving-

David: Oh

Seth: ... the things that God, that are s- opposed to God, which is, like, me assuming... What, what is the, what is the world?

David: Mm.

Seth: Because if love is loving your brother as God has loved you, but God, didn't God also love the world-

David: Right

Seth: ... that he gave his own son?

David: Yes.

Seth: So what is he talking about?

David: Yeah.

Seth: I think defining the world here is gonna be helpful in a second, but you're right.

David: Yeah.

Seth: There is a feedback loop here-

David: Mm

Seth: ... that we're dealing with, and we're coming back to old themes, but-

David: And then the other thing you brought up, which is just interesting, is he's continuing on from his previous argument, which is, uh, like, love others. That's the command that gives you assurance.

Seth: Uh-huh.

David: If you hate others, you aren't in God. You aren't in the light. Uh, instead, if you hate others, you have to love something. We all love something.

Seth: Yes.

David: So what do you love if you don't love others? You love the world.

Seth: Yeah, and I think it's important to even just to name as this idea is that love actually necessitates not loving other things.

David: It's exclusive.

Seth: Like, loving your brother actually means you'll hate things-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... or not love things that harm your brother.

David: Right.

Seth: Um, like, there is an exclusiveness to love that needs to be acknowledged in order to understand John.

David: Right.

Seth: Like, he's saying, like, "Love your brother."But don't love the world.

David: Right.

Seth: So it's just-

David: That is interesting.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah, there's an exclusiveness to love. Like if, if I say I love my wife and in the same way I love s- another woman, that's not good. I don't love my wife.

Seth: It's not good.

David: That's not good.

Seth: It's not good.

David: So it's like I have to, in a sense, not hate other women, but I-

Seth: Right, which is important. He doesn't say hate the world.

David: Right.

Seth: He says do not love the world.

David: But I do not love other women the way that I love my wife, and that is good.

Seth: Yeah.

David: It's... Okay, so we have an exclusive love for God-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... which leads to a love of others, and it necessa- it necessitates an exclusion-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... of the way we interact with the world. We don't love the world the way we love God. So what does that... Like now let's unpack that.

Seth: So, so what... The real, the question you have to ask is what is John referring to when he says the world?

David: Right.

Seth: Does he mean sunsets?

David: Yeah, I'm not supposed to love good food.

Seth: Right. Does he mean, um, people that aren't Christian?

David: Right.

Seth: Does he, like, is he-

David: Does he mean R-rated movies?

Seth: Right. [laughs] That's, that's exactly right.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So I think, it's like I think that's kind of the way I heard it growing up.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: It was like don't love the world, don't love the things the world creates.

David: Oh, don't-

Seth: They're-

David: Yeah, don't love worldly things.

Seth: Like-

David: The secular world

Seth: ... the secular world, and that's like as intense as, like, pornography-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and also R-rated movies and-

David: Dancing

Seth: ... dan- Yes. [laughs]

David: Yeah.

Seth: Um, although I was in a charismatic church, so dancing was allowed.

David: That's right. That's true.

Seth: But not-

David: I was in a Baptist church, so it was not allowed.

Seth: So dan- [laughs] Um, so I think he's after something a little bit more here. I think it's helpful to go back to the book of John.

David: Uh, yeah, you know, usually-

Seth: So-

David: ... seeing another person's, uh, material is helpful to understand-

Seth: Yes, and-

David: ... how they flesh out terms

Seth: ... potentially even the same author's material-

David: Yes

Seth: ... to see how he, he, he holds it out.

David: Yep.

Seth: So this is from John 15.

David: Okay.

Seth: And this is where he talks about the world as well and the world persecuting Jesus-

David: Mm

Seth: ... and persecuting his disciples. This is 1 John 15:18. He says, "If the world hates you, you know that it hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would not love its own. Yet... The world would love its own-

David: Mm

Seth: ... yet because you are not of the world and I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you." So who's he talking about here? Well, he goes on a few verses later. He's like, "All this happened so that the Word would be fulfilled was, was written in their law."

David: Mm.

Seth: Whose law? The law of the Pharisees who were persecuting Jesus.

David: Right.

Seth: "They hated me without a cause."

David: Mm.

Seth: So John, back in his gospel, believed the world could be synonymous with a fa- Phariseeism-

David: Right

Seth: ... with a religious establishment-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... that was bent on persecuting Jesus.

David: Right. Uh, yeah, a, a type of antichrist.

Seth: An... Yeah.

David: They were against Christ.

Seth: That's exactly right.

David: Right. Yeah, they were opposed to the Messiah of God. [laughs] Okay.

Seth: Yeah. Yep, so I think it's interesting just to have it in the back of our mind the world can, one, refer to religious conservatives. [laughs]

David: [laughs] Sure.

Seth: Right? Like in, in whatever wa- sense you wanna take that, as well as something as broad as probably the pornography and sexual exploitation industry.

David: Right.

Seth: Okay? So we're on both ends of the spectrum now. So we're actually after something a little more complex than something the world creates.

David: Mm.

Seth: It can't just be a product. It can't just be a synagogue. It actually has to be something more underneath the surface than that.

David: Mm.

Seth: So which is why the next part of that verse says, "If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. And all that is in the world, the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life." It's like all these are internal motivations.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: These aren't external products-

David: Right

Seth: ... but motivating factors in the products they create.

David: That's helpful.

Seth: Right?

David: That's helpful. So, like, when he says the, when he says the world, what does he mean? He means the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life. And, like, that, those, those things have generated all kinds of sinful institutions-

Seth: Yes

David: ... including the antichrists-

Seth: And-

David: ... including pornography

Seth: ... and things that are kind of n- neutral-

David: Right

Seth: ... it would seem, like Facebook-

David: Right

Seth: ... or-

David: Yeah, yeah, yeah

Seth: ... you know, it's like, it's like so it's, it, it's not so simple as like just don't have anything to do with Target-

David: That's right

Seth: ... be- because of X, Y, Z.

David: Yeah, it's like-

Seth: Don't go-

David: Yeah, it's what's going on in your heart. Is there love of the world? Is there desire of the flesh? Is there desire of the eyes? Is there the pride of life in you, and do you love those things?

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Do you relish whenever your eyes are filled with lusty thoughts? You know, like it's just-

Seth: Yeah, the way that I wrote it down in my notes was like desi- so the world, I think maybe the world is culture.

David: Mm.

Seth: That's a maybe a more helpful, like there's a culture of desire.

David: Yeah.

Seth: There's a culture of lust that wants to kill Jesus-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and give you everything you desire on your insides.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Like there's a culture of lust that exists. Desire and lust is the world's operating system. The world has built a system that can feed its own lusts, and your lust and desire is encouraged by the world.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: They want you to desire the things that they made for you desire.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Does that make sense?

David: Yes.

Seth: Like, um, I don't know if I'm being as clear as I wanna be.

David: Yeah.

Seth: But I think that feels more... I think-

David: The world as culture has built... Sorry, the world has built a culture-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... around these three things that, uh, supposedly satisfy us, right? The desires of the flesh, the desires of your eyes, the pride of life. Here's what you have. Isn't this beautiful to see? Doesn't this make you feel good and comfortable? And the world has built a culture that fills those things and with sin, in, like, a sinful way, and then we come out, and we love the, the world for giving us those things.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: And so we develop a desire of the flesh, and desires of the eyes, and the pride of life. The world meets those needs, and we create a new feedback loop.

Seth: Yes.

David: It's the wrong... It's the anti-feedback loop that we're supposed to have with Jesus died for me in love, I love my neighbor sacrificially. Jesus died for me in love, I love my neighbor sacrificially. This is, "Don't you want this thing for yourself?" "Yes, I want that thing for myself, thank you." "Don't you want more for yourself?" "Yes, I do want more for myself."

Seth: Yeah.

David: And we get in this other dark spiral.

Seth: Yeah, yeah. You have a dark love-

David: Yep

Seth: ... spiral-

David: Yep

Seth: ... and a holy love spiral.

David: That's right.

Seth: Um, and I thi- I think this goes back to the Garden of Eden.

David: Yes, I do too.

Seth: So think about what he just defined the world as.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: The lust or the desire of the flesh-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... eyes, and the pride of life. What does Eve do when she sees the fruit?

David: Right.

Seth: She says it looked good.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: It was desirable for eating.

David: Yeah, it was good for food. Yep.

Seth: And the s-

David: And, and made her wise

Seth: ... made her wise, and the serpent said, "You would not die."

David: Right.

Seth: It was the promise of life.

David: Right.

Seth: The fall was based around these premises.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: The f- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eye, the pride of life.

David: Right, and if, and he just came off in verse 14 saying, "You've overcome the evil one." That's Satan.

Seth: That's Satan.

David: And then he's like, "So don't love the things that Satan loves and offers you."

Seth: Right.

David: Which are the same thing he's always offered, ever since the fall.

Seth: Yeah.

David: It's the same thing, and, and, and the fall has perpetuated this dark echo chamber-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... right, of lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, pride of life. Ooh, yes, give me that. And then we love it, and we fall, we fall in love with the world. Like, we fall in love with the lies of Satan. This is how you can have life. Define good and evil for yourself. This is how you can have life. Be comfortable. Like, put your own comfort and needs over the comfort and needs of others.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: That's how you can have life.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And we're like, "Ooh, yeah, that feels really good." And so we hate our brother, and we look out for number one.

Seth: Yes.

David: Yeah, and we're in a dark e- echo chamber.

Seth: Eve's children have created a society, and a world, and a culture-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... that feedback the loo- the lie that Satan told.

David: That's right.

Seth: Which is interesting, 'cause lie and truth is another theme-

David: That's right

Seth: ... that goes throughout here.

David: But now we're lying to ourselves.

Seth: We're lying to ourselves. We're calling God a liar.

David: The, the world will make me happy. You know, that's why I love it.

Seth: Right.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So think about then God as being a liar in this context.

David: Mm.

Seth: When we say the world-

David: Can satisfy

Seth: ... gives what we want-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... that's actually lying, calling God-

David: Calling God a liar, 'cause he says, "Come to me and I will give you rest." It's like, but have you laid in a La-Z-Boy? [laughs]

Seth: That's pretty restful.

David: You know? Like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... "Oh, come to me and I will give you rest," but have you ever Netflix and chilled? [laughs]

Seth: I have.

David: I have. Maybe not in that sense, or maybe in that sense. But also, have you just sat on the couch and watched Netflix? 'Cause-

Seth: It's, that's great, too.

David: Yeah, and it's like, that's comfort, right?

Seth: Now, this might be getting a little too far-

David: Okay

Seth: ... into the allegorical train.

David: Okay.

Seth: But I, I keep thinking about, like, okay, loving the world-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... is actually a way to call God a liar.

David: Right.

Seth: I think about the Garden of Eden, the food, the wisdom offered by the snake, and the supposed authority they had over their life and self-determination between good and evil.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And I think about what was supposed to be offered in the tabernacle, in the temple, and at the Holosmon-

David: Mm

Seth: ... at the Ark of the Covenant. What was inside the Ark of the Covenant? It was the law.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: It was food, bread for the-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... in the wilderness, and it was authority. It was Aaron's staff.

David: Right.

Seth: And you have in the Garden of Eden kind of a rejection of God's wisdom, God's food-

David: Mm. Right

Seth: ... and God's authority.

David: Yeah.

Seth: The lie is, you can have those things for yourself.

David: Oh, right.

Seth: The lie is, sin is grabbing those things for yourself.

David: Mm.

Seth: But we have a covering that says all those things are available to you now.

David: In Christ.

Seth: In Christ.

David: Right.

Seth: The desires of the world don't mean anything anymore-

David: Mm

Seth: ... because they've been given to you by the covering. The covering is there so you have access to the wisdom of God, the law of God, the commandments of God-

David: Mm

Seth: ... the food of God-

David: The authority

Seth: ... the authority of God.

David: Yeah.

Seth: The glory of God-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... is yours in Jesus. That might be going a little too far on the allegorical spectrum, but, like, I was meditating on that as I was reading through this.

David: Yeah. Well, I mean, to say it another way that's just a little closer to home to 1 John is, um, God gives us these things.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: The desires of the flesh are met in Jesus. You know? Like, uh-

Seth: Right

David: ... the, the, the, the desires of our eyes. Go back to the very beginning if you wanna talk about the desires of our eyes, right? What we have seen, what we've touched. You know, we've met God in the flesh in Jesus. We've seen the light of the world. And talk about lust of the eyes, like, that's enough, isn't it?

Seth: Right. Yeah.

David: To see the light of the world is, like, all this is available for us in Jesus, um, which I think is, like, the good news to end on here. And probably, um, verse 17 says it really well. Like, all those things that you love are passing away, but whoever does the will of God abides forever. It's like, if you want something good and beautiful, like, don't you want the... Wouldn't you rather have the Garden of Eden than the fall?

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, wouldn't you rather have stayed in the Garden of Eden than believe the lies of the serpent?

Seth: Mm.

David: Like, I think when we read Genesis 3 and we hear about Adam and Eve being deceived, it's easy for us to be like, "I would've never fallen for that trick." I fall for it every day.

Seth: Mm.

David: The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the pride of life, I fall for it every day. The same stupid three-part lie-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... I still believe.

Seth: Yeah, the culture of lust, lie, and darkness always feel less satisfying than love, truth, and light.

David: Yeah.

Seth: But they're not.

David: Right. Yeah. So that's what abides forever, is, like, the fact that we have a covering from God. Um, yeah. I- it's a lot to think about. I feel just, like, heavy-

Seth: Yes

David: ... with it all.

Seth: G- go back again. What's one of the central words John keeps using?

David: Mm.

Seth: It's the word abide.

David: Yeah.

Seth: It's the word fellowship. It's with.

David: Yeah.

Seth: It's in. Whoever does the will of God abides forever. What did he just say to the young men? "Because you are strong and the word of God abides in you, you have overcome the evil one."

David: Mm.

Seth: The world is complicated.

David: Yeah.

Seth: The world is full of desirable things, new ways, innovative ways, creative ways for you to repeat the fall-

David: Right

Seth: ... uh, of Adam and Eve.God abides in you.

David: Mm.

Seth: And he is helping you by his power as you remember his sacrifice on the cross, that you have all the food, pleasure, wisdom-

David: Mm

Seth: ... law, authority you could want in him.

David: Mm.

Seth: Don't love the world or the things of the world, love the kingdom, and all these things will be added unto you.

David: Yes. I, I'm also thinking about, to, to wrap things up and to go back to assurance for a second, since that's kind of been a theme for us today, is like the snake in the garden was offering an assurance, like he undercut their assurance. Like, "Did God really say-

Seth: Uh-huh

David: ... that you, you would die?" And he's like, "Oh, I don't know." And their assurance started to get sh- shook, you know. And it's like, I think when, when, when we grab on and love the world, we're trying to cope with our lack of assurance. It's like, "I need security, and I need to know that I'm okay here and now, and I need to have an identity and have, like, pleasure and, and, like, just feel okay here in this chaotic world. And I need to grab it for myself." And you're trying to get life for yourself. And, and like, God's like, "Love me, and I will give you everything your heart desires. I'll give you even more." And like, it's just interesting to think of assurance as an antidote to sin.

Seth: Ah, yeah.

David: You know, it's like, "If you could just have assurance, you would love me more and love the world less." You know, it's just like-

Seth: Mm

David: ... uh, it's just an interesting way to think about-

Seth: And it-

David: ... sin i- is attacking our assurance.

Seth: Right, we... Yes.

David: So.

Seth: That's right. That's true. No, and, and it's, it's like so often we think that God is up there in heaven not wanting us to sin because he's mean.

David: Mm. Mm.

Seth: And he doesn't want us to have fun.

David: Yeah.

Seth: But it's like, no, no, sin is attacking your ability to have what you most desire.

David: Right.

Seth: Me, life, authority, wisdom.

David: Yeah. Rest, assurance. Yeah.

Seth: That's-

David: Totally.

Seth: Yeah. That's good.

David: Yeah. That's good. It's attacking the garden I wanted to live in you with-

Seth: Mm

David: ... where we could abide together forever.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And now God's bringing the garden back. He's bringing abiding with him forever back. And how is he doing that? By dying for our sins on the cross and giving us assurance that that day is coming by us remembering that Jesus died for us and then loving our neighbor. Like, that's cool. And, like, loving our neighbor, we're living in the garden early-

Seth: Mm, mm

David: ... when we love our neighbor, you know?

Seth: Yeah.

David: We're unworking the lies of the serpent when we love our neighbor. Uh, that's cool.

Seth: That's cool.

David: That's good. All right. Well, we'll continue going through 1 John. It's gonna be the antichrist-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... next week, right?

Seth: We've talked a lot about the antichrist and the things the antichrists talk about, but John spends a good bit of time in two different places-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... in 1 John talking specifically about what the antichrists taught and who they are, and I would also want to do a little bit, like, is the an- this antichrist, these antichrists, the same one that we're supposed to-

David: As the-

Seth: ... talk about at the end of time?

David: Right.

Seth: Is this the beast? Is this, like-

David: Yeah.

Seth: So.

David: It'll be a fun episode.

Seth: It'll be a fun episode.

David: Come back for the antichrist episode next week.

Seth: Yes.

David: That'll be, that'll be a, a big one.

Seth: Okay.

David: Okay. Well, thank you guys for listening. Uh, we hope you've enjoyed our first podcast on the new equipment. Thank you guys for helping with that.

Seth: Yes. Thank you guys.

David: And we will see you next week. [upbeat music]

Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel creates short films, devotionals, and podcasts like this one. Everything we make is free because of generous supporters like you. To see our resources, visit spokengospel.com or subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. See you next week. [upbeat music]

Related Resources

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The Surprising Connection Between Assurance and Obedience in 1 John

Show Notes

Calling God a Liar by Denying Sin

Jesus as Advocate and Atoning Sacrifice

Keeping the Commandments and the Gift of Assurance

The Old and New Commandment: Love as Light

A Song of Assurance for the Whole Church

Do Not Love the World: Breaking the Dark Feedback Loop

Related Resources

Introduction to 1, 2, & 3 John

View our devotional on 1 John 1:1-4

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Listen to the John's Letters: Introductions and Antichrists podcast

Listen to the 1 John 1:1-9: How Do I Know I'm Saved? podcast

Listen to the 1 John 1:10-2:17: How to Stop Sinning podcast

Listen to the 1 John 2:18-27; 4:1-6: Who Is the Antichrist? podcast

Listen to the 1 John 2:28-3:24: Are You a Son of the Devil? podcast

Listen to the 1 John 4:7-5:5: God Is Love podcast

Listen to the 1 John 5:6-21: The Sin that Leads to Death podcast

Listen to the 2 John: The Elect Lady podcast

Listen to the 3 John: Jesus Our Host podcast