David: [upbeat music] The whole world is Israel now, and if these people are joining that family and eating the Passover meal fulfilled in Jesus at the table with us, they need to be circumcised. I mean, it's a good argument.
Christine: It is.
David: If this was a theology debate, I'd be like, "That's a good point."
Intro: [upbeat music] Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a ministry that's dedicated to speaking the gospel out of every corner of scripture. In Luke 24, Jesus told his disciples that every part of the Bible is about Him. In each episode, hosts David and Seth work through a passage of scripture to see how it's all about Jesus and His good news. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]
David: Well, welcome everyone to the Spoken Gospel podcast. This is our last planned [laughs] episode on the Book of Acts, and it's been such a fun journey so far, and, uh, hopefully we won't ruin it today. I don't-
Christine: Hopefully not
David: ... I don't think we will. We're gonna look at the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15, a really big moment in the church, in Jerusalem, and as Jews figure out what it meant that the Gentile world was being incorporated into the people of Israel and what it meant that they now cohabitated the new Israel, the world, with them and alongside them. Peter's had some big cataclysmic changes with understanding that God has cleaned the unclean, and he shouldn't call them unclean or profane anymore. The Holy Spirit has fallen on Gentile of Gentile places. And so now as those groups of people are coming together, which is the story of Acts.
Christine: Yeah, and Paul and Barnabas have just finished their first big journey commissioned by the Spirit to travel to different parts of-
David: Mm
Christine: ... the Roman world to proclaim the gospel, and so that was a Spirit-commissioned thing. And we come to the Council of Jerusalem chapter right after that.
David: Yeah, because they're in Antioch.
Christine: Yes.
David: And it's from there that there's some members ... Is it of the Pharisee party, or is that revealed later?
Christine: No, that's right at the top. Some men came down from Judea to Antioch.
David: Mm-hmm.
Christine: And when you hear come down, it means-
David: They went to Jerusalem.
Christine: They-
David: Or they, it went f-
Christine: From Jerusalem
David: ... from Jerusalem.
Christine: Yes, 'cause they're going north-
David: Yes
Christine: ... but they are coming down a mountainous-
David: Yeah, you always come down from Jerusalem or go up to Jerusalem.
Christine: Yes. Yes, even if you're going north.
David: North, south, east, west, doesn't matter. [laughs]
Christine: Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, so yeah, they're coming from Judea to Antioch, and they're preaching something that gives the brothers there some concern.
David: Yeah, they say, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." And so here we go. They're opening up the kind of question that really fills a lot of our New Testament.
Christine: Yes.
David: Like, Paul's gonna talk about this a lot in Colossians, in Romans. It's gonna be dealt with extensively.
Christine: Galatians.
David: Galatians, oh gosh, yeah. Galatians, yeah. And so this is the question circulating the Christian community at this time, and we get to see firsthand, in a sense, how the church ruled on this question. And then it has to be worked out in the churches through the leadership of Paul and others. [laughs] They have to apply this ruling. But what we're gonna run into here in this passage is the relationship that Gentiles, like myself, like Christine-
Christine: Yep
David: ... like so many of you probably listening, what does our inclusion in the Kingdom of God, which was first proclaimed to the Jews, then to the Gentiles, what does our inclusion in that mean for our relationship with the Torah, with the Law of Moses? What is still applicable to us today, and what isn't? And how do we understand that? And this has led to a whole bunch of debate, and we're gonna just try to stick close to the text here and let it speak, and we're hopefully gonna draw some things that have been helpful for us in understanding how and why the church made the decision that they made.
Christine: Yeah, it's a big question, and one that probably caused a lot of unrest to the people in Antioch, and it did bring up a lot of dispute between them and Saul and Barnabas, 'cause these people are coming from Jerusalem to Antioch. So when they give this message that carries a lot of weight, it, people don't know, are these people sent by Peter and-
David: That's right
Christine: ... John-
David: Yep
Christine: ... and the others? Is this an apostolic decree or interpretation? What are we gonna do? And Paul and Barnabas had just come back. They've planted churches in all these Gentile territory [laughs] lands, and what does that mean for people coming under the lordship of Jesus-
David: Mm
Christine: ... and coming into his kingdom that is spreading farther and farther. So-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... it's a big question, and people didn't, you know, they couldn't just call Peter and say, "Hey, did you send these guys?" [laughs]
David: Yeah, yeah.
Christine: It was like, "Well, you're coming from Jerusalem. Are you coming from the apostles? Where are you coming from? What authority do you have?"
David: Oh, that's so good, yeah.
Christine: 'Cause the question you bring up or the topic you bring up is highly controversial there.
David: Well, yeah, and the stakes couldn't be higher.
Christine: Yeah.
David: [laughs] The stakes couldn't be higher and couldn't be clearer either. Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved. Clear command, clear high stakes.
Christine: Very.
David: Salvation, so rescue from death, inclusion in God's kingdom and family are at stake, and the command, circumcision.
Christine: Yes
David: According to the law of Moses. Okay, so let's unpack all that 'cause that's a lot to just drop on everybody listening right now. [laughs] There's a lot of categories here, and so maybe this is the right question to, to kick us off. Why was circumcision such a crucial factor for so many Jews of that day, and why did they see it as necessary to impose on Gentile converts, people joining their kingdom?
Christine: Well, it reminds me of Passover, where God put a distinction between the people who will experience life and the people who experience death and the meal that they could partake in.
David: Mm-hmm.
Christine: And that was the Passover meal that identified them as people of God, and that was coupled... Partaking of that meal was coupled with being circumcised-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... if you were a man. So you and your whole family could participate in the Passover meal as Gentiles if you were circumcised and adhered to the law of Moses. So yeah, Gentile inclusion was not a new idea. It was in there in the Torah for a long time, but the way that they were included in God's family was becoming Jewish themselves.
David: Yeah.
Christine: And so I think the question here is, again, like these people are saying, "Okay, now there's another meal here that Jesus put on at Passover-
David: Yes
Christine: ... no less," and-
David: The Eucharist, the Lord's Supper.
Christine: Yes. And He said, "You will do this in my remembrance, and this is how you partake of my kingdom, my body. This is how you're part of my family."
David: This is the new inclusion meal.
Christine: It's the new Passover meal.
David: Yep.
Christine: Like passing from death to life, this is how you partake of that-
David: Salvation
Christine: ... story.
David: This is how you eat salvation.
Christine: Exactly.
David: Yeah.
Christine: You are what you eat.
David: Yeah.
Christine: So you [laughs] if you wanna be alive, you better eat Jesus.
David: Yeah, yeah, that's really helpful. If you're not a part of the family of God, you can't eat the family of God's meal, and that meal is our salvation.
Christine: Yes.
David: And so-
Christine: It's communion with God
David: ... communion with God, this is how we enter into the story and participate in it and ingest life. And so if you can't take that meal, you can't ingest life, therefore you can't be saved.
Christine: Yeah.
David: Like the line is pretty clear for these people's argument.
Christine: Yes, and so, yeah, and pulling from that, it's the prerequisite for partaking of that meal that gives you life-
David: Was circumcision
Christine: ... is circumcision, following Moses. In a way, you must follow Moses as he commanded the Jews to follow Jesus.
David: Mm-hmm.
Christine: And so another way to put that is you must become Jewish in order to become a Christian.
David: Right. Yeah, and that's kind of the logic that they had.
Christine: Yeah.
David: So to amplify this even more, speaking of Passover, Moses is the first person to kind of walk through this story. On his way to Egypt, God comes against him-
Christine: Oh, you're right
David: ... and seeks to take his life, and it is circumcision that saves him.
Christine: That's right.
David: Because he was not a part of the family of God yet.
Christine: That's right.
David: 'Cause he was born a Hebrew, but raised by Egyptians, but living in Midian. Who was he?
Christine: His i-
David: Whose family and kingdom did he belong to?
Christine: His identity is very much in flux.
David: Yes, and so Zipporah, his wife, circumcises him and maybe also there's some Gershom. We don't know the details of all of that 'cause the H- Hebrew language is very obscure there. But regardless-
Christine: And uncomfortable
David: ... circumcision occurs, and through that act, they are in, brought into the family of God and saved. And so that is how you participate. And they're passed over. God passes over that house at that moment. And so they have, like, this first Passover moment, and it's tied into circumcision. Then we get later in the law, we're gonna see that if you want to eat the Passover meal, you and your household, you have to be a part of a household of a circumcised leader, man, in your family. And so that's what's on the line. So this is the logic that they're using is there's a very clear pattern in place here that if you want to eat the meal of salvation and be included in the family of, of God, you have to be circumcised. That's how the law was taught.
Christine: Yes.
David: But I think if we back up, we also need to go, hold on. Where did circumcision begin? 'Cause it didn't start in Exodus.
Christine: It did not.
David: Right?
Christine: That's right.
David: It started in Genesis, and this is the move that Paul always does in [laughs] his letters where he's like, "Yeah, we know the law of Moses, but circumcision started with Abraham."
Christine: And remember, Genesis is part of the law-
David: The Torah
Christine: ... of Moses.
David: Yeah.
Christine: It's the Torah.
David: Yeah.
Christine: Yeah.
David: And so Abraham was given the sign of circumcision whenever he was promised a son, Isaac, and that that son, through him, all the nations of the world would be blessed. And so there's this sign that the son that he would bear would fulfill the promise, and through his descendants would fulfill the promise given to Abraham in Genesis 12, whenever God says that, "Through you, all the nations of the world will be blessed." And so there's this idea that the seed of Abraham in his familial reproduction, as he multiplies a family, that agent of multiplication, [laughs] if I can put it that way, is marked with a sign, and the reproduction of Israel's men are marked with a sign that we have been marked off as the ones who will bear the ultimate seed that will bless all nations. And that seed is Jesus, and He has come. And so you can see now as you have this conversation kind of going back and forth, there's a law of Moses argument to be made, but there's another argument to be made where we look back at Abraham and we're thinking circumcision was, yes, a sign of being included in the family of Abraham, but it had a telos and a point to it, and it was trying to point us to a seed that would come and bless all nations, and that seed has come now in the Messiah Jesus. Does that change our relationship with circumcision at all? I bring all this up to muddy the waters intentionally.To say as something you and I have said as we've looked at this passage, Christine, that this conversation was not a no-brainer.
Christine: That's right. This-
David: This is a hard conversation.
Christine: Yeah.
David: This is deep theological Torah interpretation waters-
Christine: Yes
David: ... that they were in.
Christine: Which is a relief because-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... if this was hard for the apostles to-
David: Who were so much nearer the culture and time and language.
Christine: Yeah, this was their home court, and they're like-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... "This is new-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... and yet old, and what's the continuity?" And-
David: How much harder is it for us?
Christine: We know God commanded circumcision, and not-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... one letter is taken out of the law.
David: Yeah. So if you've ever struggled [laughs] with going-
Christine: You're in good company
David: ... how do I apply the Old Testament? What does it have to do with me today? Do I follow that law? Do I follow this law? Do I eat that? Do I not eat this? Though these are not easy questions. Peter struggled with them. The apostles here in Jerusalem struggled with them. [laughs] These are deep waters.
Christine: Yeah.
David: So-
Christine: With the growing Gentile population that is being brought in to the kingdom of Jesus, these are a lot of questions, and there's a lot of Torah and a lot of history to go over to unpack what, how are we faithful, how are we obedient to God in how He's revealed Himself.
David: Yeah.
Christine: So.
David: And so this is the charge that these people from Jerusalem have brought to Antioch, and they're saying, "Unless you're circumcised, you can't be saved." And so after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, so clearly there's, Paul and Barnabas have some theology they've been doing where they disagree with that statement. Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem and discuss this question with the apostles and the elders. So they were sent on their way by the church, and they passed through both Phoenicia and Samaria. And as they did that, they reported about the conversions of the Gentiles, and that brought great joy to everybody. And when they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them. But some believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees stood up and said, "It is necessary for them to be circumcised," them being the Gentiles who have come to faith, them to be circumcised and ordered to keep the law of Moses. Now, if you remember, I think it was the last episode, I can't remember now. No, it was two episodes ago with Cornelius. We talked a little bit about the Pharisees and how they can get a, a bad rap sometimes.
Christine: That's right.
David: And they can be the [laughs] scapegoat for a lot of titles and things we wanna give them. But the reason they're so focused on Torah observance is because their sect, the Pharisees, were theologically convinced, and not without warrant, that in order for the Messiah to come back, there would need to be perfect Torah obedience, and Israel itself needed to be wholly pure so that they would hasten the day of the Messiah. And even the [laughs] funny, this is the camp that Saul/Paul grew up under, but they had a different, slightly different, more intense, you could say, viewpoint of what Torah keeping meant. You know, and Jesus ran into that with them. You know, He would glean on the Sabbath, and they were like, "You're Sabbath-breaking." And Jesus is like, "That's not what the Torah says. [laughs] It was a gift for man, and you're trying to say that man was just made to keep the Sabbath." And so there's this tension, you know, and that the, the Pharisees aren't these horrific-
Christine: Yeah
David: ... legalistic bad guys.
Christine: Yeah.
David: But they're doing theology, and they're interpreting the Torah in a certain way, and that way is corrected often in Scripture. So I'm just, so I'm trying to paint them as-
Christine: Yeah
David: ... a little more fairly maybe.
Christine: Yeah.
David: But-
Christine: It was often their hypocrisy that Jesus condemned, not their teaching.
David: So helpful, yes.
Christine: Which Jesus tells His followers, like, "Do what they preach, just not what they do."
David: Do.
Christine: 'Cause they are hypocrites. And so-
David: Teach, their teaching's pretty good.
Christine: Yeah.
David: Yeah.
Christine: They're teaching solid. They sit in the seat of Moses.
David: Yeah.
Christine: You'll obey Moses by obeying them-
David: Mm
Christine: ... which is a lot coming from Jesus.
David: Yeah.
Christine: But He was like, "You're putting all these burdens on people-
David: And you're not even keeping them
Christine: ... and you're not keeping them."
David: Yeah.
Christine: And so-
David: That was Jesus' big problem-
Christine: Yes
David: ... with them.
Christine: Yes. He called them hypocrites all the time, and that was-
David: Mm
Christine: ... the big issue He took with them. And I think-
David: That's a helpful distinction
Christine: ... there's something to be said about what you mentioned too, that they were using the Torah that was meant to bring freedom and life to bind people and enslave them, and Jesus-
David: Mm
Christine: ... is like, "That's not how [laughs] it works."
David: Right.
Christine: But-
David: So Paul and Barnabas are sent from Antioch to bring report of this dissension, this argument that's happening among a, a Gentile kind of blended church about the issue of circumcision for Gentiles. And as they bring it up, it looks like that same opinion is still present there in Jerusalem as well among the sect of the Pharisees.
Christine: And these are supposedly also believers too.
David: Yes.
Christine: It's just Pharisees like Saul-
David: Like Saul
Christine: ... who became, yeah, who became obedient to the faith.
David: Mm-hmm.
Christine: So they're meeting in verse six. It says, "The apostles and elders met to consider this question, and after much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them." And even before we get into how he addresses them, it's after much discussion. They're not like-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... we need to come to a conclusion quickly, or this is a no-brainer. It's, again, it's rough.
David: Yeah, or everybody shut up and just listen to one person, and whatever he says goes.
Christine: Yeah. They are discussing. They're disputing, which if, I spent some time in the Middle East, and I've seen this play out.
David: Yeah.
Christine: And it makes one question drawn out through a whole afternoon because people refuse to leave the room until everyone, it feels at peace. Like-
David: Mm.
Christine: And so it was, it was very interesting and kind of cool to experience that, this whole idea of we need to make sure we're all good with each other, and we all are unanimously okay with this decision. And I was sitting there like, "This is so admirable, and I f- feel convicted that I don't often have time for this kind of-
David: I'm not patient enough for this. [laughs]
Christine: Yeah, yeah.
David: Yeah.
Christine: And oh, there were, I mean, heated emotions going around, and people are a little thick-skinned there, so they can-
David: Right
Christine: ... you know, they can argue-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... for a long time about stuff and not feel offended. But still-
David: But the point, yeah, but the point here is that-This was not a quick decision.
Christine: It wasn't.
David: They didn't tell the Pharisees to shut up
Christine: Mm-hmm
David: They sat and listened and debated and talked about this, and there was much discussion. We're not given a timeline.
Christine: Yeah.
David: We're just told there was much debate.
Christine: Yes.
David: Which, again, I don't know how often I'll reemphasize this [laughs] on this podcast, but this was not a no-brainer. This is not an easy thing. And so... And we won't make it easy, I don't think, in our answer.
Christine: No.
David: That's not our goal. But if this is a difficult thing to think through for you or people that you are around, how the Old and New Testaments go together, what Torah observance looks like for a Gentile in the 21st century, [laughs] these are hard questions. So after much debate and discussion, Peter stood up and said to them, "My brothers, you know that in the early days, God made a choice among you that I should be the one through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the good news and become believers. And God, who knows the human heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us. And in cleansing their hearts by faith, he has made no distinction between them and us. Now therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will." Peter-
Christine: There's a lot in there
David: ... Peter's bringing the heat. All right. Where do we start with Peter's speech here?
Christine: Well, what jumped out in his first sentence or so that you read was sounding an awful lot like Cornelius in Acts 10. Is that what Peter's referring to here, that he was commissioned to go with a vision of the Gentiles being a part of the kingdom coming down from heaven?
David: Yeah. As much as I've looked into this, that's what I've been able to find out. 'Cause it confused me when I first read this passage, 'cause I was thinking about Acts 9, and I, I was thinking-
Christine: Mm-hmm
David: ... no, I think God commissioned Saul first to go to the Gentiles, and how much he must suffer to do that. I was, so I was a little confused.
Christine: Maybe both?
David: Yeah.
Christine: [laughs] I don't-
David: But I do think this is a reference to the third Pentecost [laughs] that we talked about, and the third major movement inside the Book of Acts, where we have Peter seeing an Ezekiel-like vision and bringing new creation life and seeing the Holy Spirit fall on Caesarea in Cornelius'-
Christine: Caesarea
David: ... household.
Christine: That's Caesarea. [laughs]
David: [laughs] If you missed-
Christine: The first time you heard that
David: ... if you missed two episodes ago.
Christine: [laughs]
David: And so yeah, I think that's what is being referred to there. 'Cause that confused me when I first read it.
Christine: Okay.
David: But I think that is-
Christine: Yeah
David: ... what's being referred to.
Christine: Yeah. It makes sense, 'cause we also talked about that Peter's kind of the, the Apostle present or the, the Apostle to witness and be a part of-
David: Yes
Christine: ... each of those Pentecosts-
David: That's right
Christine: ... in Jerusalem, Samaria, and in Caesarea.
David: None of them happened without Peter.
Christine: Mm-hmm.
David: Yep.
Christine: Yeah.
David: And so yeah, he was commissioned by God to do that, so he's in the unique position as a eyewitness and the one that God spoke through and to, to speak into-
Christine: Yeah
David: ... this issue of how is the gospel going out, and no one was more hesitant than him.
Christine: Yeah.
David: And so if he had reticence around, "I'm not going to the unclean. I'm not going to the Gentiles," and now he's changed his mind because of the word of God and the visions he's seen-
Christine: It's like, "God chose me to go to the Gentiles."
David: Yeah. "I know, I know I was supposed to be there. And so do I need to tell you the sheet story again?"
Christine: "Do you want me to tell you again?" [laughs]
David: [laughs] "I told you three times."
Christine: [laughs]
David: So yeah, I think that's what's, that's what's happening here.
Christine: Yeah. That's really cool. And the fact that, yeah, he talks about... The way he talks about the Holy Spirit is really cool. Again, it's showing that this is an act of God. The Spirit who brought new creation in the first place is now bringing new creation by cleansing hearts and peoples to dwell in, and it's by faith. And I don't know, that's just really neat. Again, a, a gift cannot be forced.
David: Right.
Christine: So in some ways, what I'm trying to get at is that what it seems like he's saying is, "I'm just following the lead of the Spirit."
David: Yeah. The Holy Spirit went there. Deal with it. We all have to deal with that now-
Christine: Yeah
David: ... 'cause God went there.
Christine: Yeah.
David: And if you're not willing to go where God's going, you're putting him to the test. You should probably stop that.
Christine: Yeah, yeah. He even asks, like, "Why do you test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?" Which we can get into-
David: We, yeah
Christine: ... that a little later.
David: But yeah-
Christine: But-
David: ... thinking about the cleansing and the Holy Spirit here, you know, we, we talked about this a little bit, I think two episodes ago, where there has been this atonement that God has, that Jesus has made, where he has cleaned the world now through his blood. And now in the same way that the Day of Atonement in Leviticus 16 made the camp of Israel, the, the land of Israel clean, now Jesus's atonement, that doesn't go into an earthly Holy of Holies in the tabernacle, but goes into the heavenly Holy of Holies, of which the earthly tabernacle was only a copy and a shadow. He goes into the heavenly one, and when he sprinkles his blood there, he makes the Earth clean so that just as whenever the Holy of Holies was sprinkled clean, the Spirit of God and the presence of God could descend and dwell there and be with his people, now the Holy Spirit can come and be with a, a clean people. And so the atonement of Jesus from the heavenly temple has now allowed for the Spirit of God to come and fill the people of God wherever they dwell, even in unclean territories. And so he's saying, "This has happened. God knows human hearts, and he's cleansed them, and he's filled them with the Holy Spirit. They're temples now. They're a part of the temple now. We have to deal with that." [laughs]
Christine: That is so crazy, that logic.
David: Yeah.
Christine: Even just going to the atonement, holiness trickles down-
David: Mm
Christine: ... and cleanses.
Christine: And that means even Gentile hearts are cleansed.
David: Yes. And this is not a new thing for Israel.
Christine: No.
David: And if you go look at it, and this is going to be extremely pertinent for our conversation, so this is not a rabbit trail, so everyone listen. [laughs] Okay.
Christine: [laughs]
David: Go to Leviticus 16, and we have the Day of Atonement. What we see after that is that Jews, Israelites, are not the only ones in this cleaned land, but you have aliens, sojourners, immigrants, people who were not culturally, ethnically Jewish-
Christine: People who are not circumcised
David: ... people who are not circumcised, very important for our discussion, are living in the land, and they are partaking in the provision, the cultural life, the Yahweh worship that's happening.
Christine: They're going to synagogue.
David: They're going to synagogue. Uh-
Christine: Well, that was-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... that's a little anachronistic, but yeah.
David: But yeah, you know, yeah. They're, they're-
Christine: Hearing the Torah
David: ... participating in the liturgical worship of Israel, but they're not circumcised. And there are subsets of laws for them. And so you can read it in Leviticus 17 and 18, right after the Day of Atonement, where it will talk about laws for the sojourner and the alien, and these are those who are living in Israel but are not circumcised, and there are different laws for them. Or a different way to say that is there are laws that apply to Jews, but then Leviticus will specifically call out when a law, a law applies to the sojourner or the alien.
Christine: Alongside the Jew.
David: Alongside the Jew.
Christine: Yeah.
David: And we can think about this, this is actually I think important as we're talking about the Holy of Holies, and we're talking about Israel, and we're talking about the nations, that there are varying degrees of responsibilities, commands given to people based on their proximity to the Holy of Holies. And so the high priest has things that he has to do that priests don't. Like, he has to abstain from, uh-
Christine: He can touch almost nothing unclean
David: ... he can, yeah, and, like, there's only certain funerals he can go to of, like, his close relatives or something like that, only his parents or something. And then that kind of loosens as you get to the priests, but then the priests have a series of commands they have to follow that the normal Israelites don't. And then normal Israelites have things to follow that the sojourners and aliens don't. But then the sojourners and aliens have things to follow that's not commanded of the nations that live outside Israel.
Christine: Exactly. Yeah.
David: And so this is a normal way that the Torah has structured the world. [laughs]
Christine: Yes. It's kind of, yeah, concentric circles of holiness-
David: Mm-hmm
Christine: ... with the center of the bullseye being the Holy of Holies and the high priest, as it were.
David: Yep.
Christine: Like, that's what I kind of heard you say, that-
David: That's exactly right
Christine: ... the closer you are to the center of God's presence, his holiness-
David: Yep
Christine: ... the more things, the more holy you have to be-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... the more set apart.
David: Which, to add fuel to the Pharisees' argument, now that Gentiles have been made a holy place of God, shouldn't they have to follow the utmost commands?
Christine: Yeah. Yeah.
David: They, they-
Christine: They might have had the same-
David: Logical train
Christine: ... urgency-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... yeah, or the same urgency that Peter had when he's like, "What's to prevent them from getting baptized? Go-
David: Yeah, get them in, yeah. [laughs]
Christine: ... go get them baptized right now because the Holy Spirit has filled them. They belong to Jesus now." And so the f- some Pharisees might have had the same kind of logic and urgency saying, "Well, if they are filled with the Holy Spirit, they need to be circumcised." And so-
David: Yep
Christine: ... there is, yeah, it's very convoluted.
David: Yeah, so Peter stands up, and he's just, he's showing them, guys, God has set the lead here, and he has shown by filling Gentiles with the Holy Spirit and cleansing their hearts through faith that we're not in a former time anymore. Something new and greater is happening, and the holiness of Israel has spread across the world, and the Holy Spirit is filling formerly unclean places 'cause Jesus has made them clean.
Christine: Can I just double-click on that?
David: Do it.
Christine: 'Cause that's really, that's so on the nose in such a beautiful way of, well, and this is why we're commanded to preach the gospel of Jesus because if it's true that the world is Israel, and all of, you know, by that, like, the entire cosmos now is under Jesus' rule and reign-
David: Mm-hmm
Christine: ... where can you go to worship a pagan idol? What dominion-
David: [laughs]
Christine: ... do pagan idols and gods have? None. [laughs]
David: Yeah.
Christine: They've been ousted. There's no place you can't go that is outside the confines of Jesus' kingdom. And so-
David: Yeah, we've kind of talked about that, like, D-Day-
Christine: Yeah
David: ... where they've been beaten. They just don't know it yet, is that, you know-
Christine: Yeah, or they're gonna resist and burn every bridge.
David: Right.
Christine: Yeah, yeah.
David: And so as the church is going out in Acts, they're showing, like, sorry, this is Israel now.
Christine: Yep.
David: Sorry, this is under the dominion of the new Davidic King and Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth.
Christine: Yes. Jesus is Lord here also.
David: Yep.
Christine: Yeah, there's no place I can go on Earth that, where Jesus is not Lord.
David: Yeah.
Christine: Which means there is no other Lord.
David: Yeah.
Christine: And so that's just really neat that even that is, it kind of pushes or takes maybe the outside rim of that s- you know, central-
David: Those concentric circles
Christine: ... the concentric circles off because now they're, if everything is now the land of Israel-
David: That's right
Christine: ... there's nothing about the pagan nations, which again, it's like, okay, well, everyone in Israel needs to be circumcised might be the rule of logic-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... that they're using, but okay, if we're all-
David: Yep
Christine: ... connected like that, but that's kind of the push-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... and pull, that everything has been upgraded in holiness, as it were.
David: That's right. Yeah.
Christine: Yeah.
David: Yeah, the whole world is Israel now, and if these people are joining that family and eating the Passover meal fulfilled in Jesus at the table with us, they need to be circumcised. I mean, it's a good argument.
Christine: It is.
David: If this was a theology debate, I'd be like, "That's a good point."
Christine: [laughs]
David: Like, that's a good point. This isn't some mean, angry, racist, you know, like, legalistic argument. This is sound, biblical theology that these people are trying to do.
Christine: Yeah, and Peter's not-
Christine: The last one there, it doesn't, what he says there isn't definitive because you have other people, or you have Barnabas and Saul stand up and tell them-
David: Mm-hmm
Christine: ... tell the whole assembly about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them.
David: Yeah.
Christine: So-
David: What I love about that call-out is this is, again, this is not a no-brainer.
Christine: Mm-hmm.
David: And the argument isn't, "That's so dumb. Shut up, Pharisees. You're being legalistic, you're hypocritical." That's not what's happening.
Christine: No.
David: It's like, that is a valid biblical argument that we have to deal with. Okay, Peter, give us your testimony. Af- we've heard a lot of debate. Peter, stand up. You're the one who God said, "What did you see? What happened?" Okay, Paul and Barnabas, you've been in Gentile territory. You've seen Gentiles incorporated into the kingdom. What's that been like?
Christine: Yeah.
David: They-
Christine: And they just go on and on and on, apparently, Barnabas and Saul giving testimony after testimony about the miraculous signs and wonders, which again, that's, you know, Exodus or Torah language.
David: Yes, it is
Christine: And even-
David: God is doing Passover stuff. He's doing Exodus stuff, signs and wonders, rescuing the enslaved in places other than Israel, and for people groups other than Israel.
Christine: Yeah. And it's-
David: And He's, He's doing that work for them, and so, ooh, so it is interesting that non-circumcised people are experiencing Passover events.
Christine: That is odd.
David: You know what I mean?
Christine: Uh-huh.
David: And so if, and so he's like, "No, look, they have been included in the family of God. They're experiencing a Passover just like our ancestors did. They've been cleaned just like the priests. They've been filled with the Holy Spirit just like the tabernacle. These are quote-unquote-
Christine: These-
David: ..." Israelites.
Christine: Yes. The, they are one of us.
David: Yeah.
Christine: And so it's interesting that Paul and Barnabas, even as they travel to Jerusalem, you know, through Phoenicia and then down through Samaria, and then on their way to Jerusalem, they are meeting up with churches and sharing testimonies and are encouraging people, like, "Hey, look what God is doing among the Gentiles."
David: Mm.
Christine: "Look what God is doing among the Gentiles." And kind of how you pointed out in a previous episode, I think with Peter's Pentecost among the Gentiles, is this is not gonna be two separate churches. This is not gonna be the Church of Gentiles and the Church of Jews.
David: Right.
Christine: This is always one body because it shares one and the same spirit, and this one body works signs and wonders because that's what Jesus's body does among the world. And so them sharing testimonies even as they're traveling, and that bringing joy to people.
David: Yeah, and to Phoenicians and Samaritans.
Christine: I know, yes.
David: Yeah. It's like, it's like-
Christine: Yes
David: ... Luke's being a little snarky.
Christine: [laughs]
David: He's being a little snarky. They get it.
Christine: Aw.
David: Like, they're, they're pumped about it.
Christine: Yeah. Well, they're also not the ones debating about-
David: No
Christine: ... the whole thing that's like, "Oh, do we have to be s-," you know, that's-
David: But I think it's just cool that the Samaritans are like, "We've been on the fringes, too. This is awesome."
Christine: Yeah.
David: [laughs]
Christine: "We're in." Yeah. Yeah.
David: Yeah.
Christine: Oh, wow.
David: It's really cool. Yeah, and then Peter continues his sermon, which we've, we've read, but we haven't leaned in on yet now, in verse 10, "Now therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear?" So when I read, "by putting the Lord your God to the test," that's setting off alarm bells for me because that's something Jesus said in the wilderness with Satan.
Christine: Mm-hmm.
David: "Do not put the Lord your God to the test." Let's-
Christine: He's quoting scripture
David: ... he's quoting, and all of his quotes there are from Deuteronomy, right?
Christine: That's right.
David: Okay, and what, and this one is particularly referring to?
Christine: Testing God would be quoting from Deuteronomy 6, where he is referencing an Exodus story, in Exodus 17, where they tested God about water, and asking, "Is God among us or not? He saved us, but is He really for us?" And if we go to Exodus 17, that whole story is there, and we see that they're thirsty, and God hears their grumbling, then tells Moses to go and strike a rock that he's standing on, [laughs] and water comes out and gives the Israelites drinking. But it's, that location is named Massah after the testing that they did to God.
David: And so-
Christine: So that's one story.
David: Yeah, so they-
Christine: But-
David: ... test God by wondering if He is among them, if He's going to act for them, if He's going to care for them.
Christine: Mm-hmm.
David: And then when, yeah, Deuteronomy 6 references it, as you tested Him at Massah. It says, "Do not put the Lord your God to the test as you tested Him at Massah. You must diligently keep the commandments of Yahweh your God, and His decrees and His statutes that He commanded you." So this is very prevalent and relevant to our discussion here-
Christine: Yeah
David: ... that this is about keep the commandments of God. And yet Peter is saying, "Why are we putting God to the test by making the Gentiles keep these commandments?"
Christine: Mm.
David: So it's interesting-
Christine: That is interesting
David: ... the language that's being played with here.
Christine: Are you gonna deny the water that's rushing through the Gentiles?
David: Exactly. So I think that's-
Christine: Wow
David: ... and beyond that, it's, is God with us? Is God acting? Is God gonna do anything? He's like, "God's doing things."
Christine: That makes sense why Paul and Barnabas are like, "Let's tell you about all the things God is doing."
David: Yes.
Christine: The-
David: Through signs and wonders.
Christine: Yes.
David: Like, He is doing things.
Christine: He is among us.
David: He is acting. He has parted the Red Sea. He has brought water from the rock. He has fed us with manna and quail in the wilderness. Don't put the Lord your God to the test by saying, "Well, is He even gonna act?" It's like, He's acting. Is He gonna save the Gentiles? He has saved them. They're experiencing many Pentecosts and Passovers.
Christine: Yeah.
David: Stop putting the Lord your God to the test by saying He's not doing anything. He is doing something.
Christine: He is.
David: And you need to recognize that.
Christine: Yeah.
David: And I think that is, is, like, what Peter's pushing on here.
Christine: That's really cool. Yeah.
David: And saying, "Don't put the Lord your God to the test," because He's doing something, as Paul will say, apart from the law.
Christine: Mm-hmm.
David: And He's doing something not by placing on the neck of the disciples, and I do think it's interesting that he calls the Gentiles in question disciples-
Christine: Yeah. Well, they're people who are being instructed-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... in the way of Jesus.
David: I just think it's cool.
Christine: So, yeah.
David: "Placing on their neck a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear."
Christine: Not even we could obey it perfectly-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... or fully. Yeah. Also know that that is not how we are-
David: Saved
Christine: ... saved or brought in, 'cause we were saved in order to do that.
David: That's right.
Christine: Kind of. Yeah.
David: Oh, that's a really good point, actually. [laughs] Hold on, let me stop there, because I've always heard that statement about the yoke that neither us or our ancestors were able to bear as, why would we put this impossible thing on the Gentiles? And I think that's there. But there's also a story that he's telling that they were rescued from the Passover, they were brought into the wilderness, into the land of God, and all of that before they received the Law of Moses.
Christine: Yeah.
David: And so it's not the yoke that saved them from slavery-
Christine: Yeah
David: ... but it's the yoke that was meant to show them how to live righteously in the land, but that's not what saved them. And so conflating circumcision or Torah obedience, Law of Moses obedience with the salvation moment of Passover is conflating two things that weren't originally conflated.
Christine: It's true.
David: Yeah.
Christine: Yeah.
David: 'Cause they were saved before the law.
Christine: Yes. They were saved. It wasn't the law and obeying the law that got them out of Egypt.
David: Mm.
Christine: They were actually not serving God at all when they were in Egypt.
David: Right.
Christine: But they were rescued from those powers in order to serve God faithfully.
David: Just like the Gentiles are experiencing now. They're being rescued from powers to serve Yahweh.
Christine: Yeah, which I, I can't presume to know exactly how this f- argument or this discussion flowed. It probably took a long time, but where my logic kind of got me back to is, like, well now we j- we're just, are we back on square one? Now that they are saved, are they to keep the whole Torah?
David: Right. Yep.
Christine: Or is this still like, no, it's based on the Torah compliance that they are saved. And it's like, yes, we must keep the Torah, but how do we keep it?
David: Yeah.
Christine: Because-
David: So-
Christine: ... it's relevant-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... 'cause it's God's word.
David: So I don't think we're on square one again.
Christine: Okay.
David: But I do think that question's about to come back in to the conversation.
Christine: Okay.
David: But the progression we've made now is going, God is saving people.
Christine: Yes.
David: And so conflating Law of Moses observance with salvation is not remembering our own story.
Christine: Ah.
David: Passover occurred first. [laughs]
Christine: True.
David: Then the Law of Moses. Something did precede that, though, which was circumcision, so that's still on the table here. And so what is circumcision doing? And it is this affiliation with the people of God, this full inclusion in the people of God. Well, we've seen a different pattern start to take over, where people are being filled with the Holy Spirit and baptized, and we talked about that in the Acts 10 episode as that is full inclusion in the people of God because you're baptized in the name of Jesus, and that's how you join the kingdom.
Christine: Yes.
David: And so they've joined the kingdom in baptism. They have been cleaned through Jesus' blood, and they've been filled through the Holy Spirit. They're full-fledged members of this new kingdom of God. Why are we putting God to the test? He's done all of it. W- what's preventing them from being baptized, from being filled with the Spirit? Nothing. What else are we trying to do here?
Christine: Hmm.
David: And so I think we're seeing that there's a fulfillment of circumcision, too, in what it was pointing to, that this Jesus who the seed of Abraham was leading toward has come. He has brought his kingdom, and to join him in his kingdom, the mark is not circumcision anymore. The mark is baptism, being baptized into his name and incorporated into his family. And so to add circumcision to that is to add a mark of Jewishness to people, which is not bad at all. It is good, but it's not required.
Christine: It's good to be a Jew.
David: Yes, very good.
Christine: There, there are tons of advantages to that.
David: Yeah.
Christine: And Paul talks about, like, much and every way are there-
David: Right
Christine: ... yeah, but it's not a requirement for being in the kingdom of Jesus-
David: Mm
Christine: ... which is the kingdom that spans the entire world.
David: Yeah. And I think that's what we're about to get to here. So let's, let's push on, 'cause I think-
Christine: Okay
David: ... we might have stepped out on a little limb that we hadn't anchored quite yet, but James is gonna get us there.
Christine: Yes. So when they finished, that's verse 13, when Barnabas and Paul finished, James spoke up.
David: And who's James?
Christine: This is James, the brother of Jesus-
David: Mm-hmm
Christine: ... who's in Jerusalem, and we haven't met him. Actually, I don't think we've encountered him since Acts 2.
David: Hmm.
Christine: 'Cause he's there at Pentecost, 'cause we know that Jesus' mother and brothers are there.
David: Mm-hmm.
Christine: But for all we know, he stays in Jerusalem, and he is... He hears of J- of Peter's miraculous escape from prison in Acts 12, 'cause he's one of the people that Peter says, "Go tell James about this-
David: Yeah, right
Christine: ... and the brothers." But this is the first time we see him give a, yeah, give a verdict, as it were.
David: So James replied, "My brothers, listen to me. Simeon," Peter, Simon, "has related how God first looked favorably on the Gentiles." [laughs] I like that, how God first looked favorably. He led the way favorably on the Gentiles to take from among them a people for his name, another Passover.
Christine: And m- maybe a double meaning where, remember how that was Abraham?
David: Oh, yes. Yeah.
Christine: I don't know if he's being intentionally, like, rabbinic there, but-
David: Mm-hmm
Christine: ... who are you speaking of is a valid question there. Are you referring to our forefather Abraham and how he was a Gentile before he was, you know.
David: Yeah. That's absolutely right, and now he's taken a name. Yeah, and this agrees with the words of the prophets as it is written, quote, "After this, I will return, and I will rebuild the dwelling of David, which has fallen. From its ruins I will rebuild it, and I will set it up, so that all other peoples may seek the Lord.Even all the Gentiles over whom my name has been called. Thus says the Lord, who has been making these things known from long ago. Okay, let me stop there. James is gonna keep talking, but he's doing a lot here.
Christine: He is.
David: Okay. So he's talking about Simon has related the news of how God has moved first to the Gentiles. We're not taking this into our own hands.
Christine: We're not getting ahead of God here.
David: That's right. That's a really good way to put it. We're not getting ahead of God here. God is the one who's looked favorably on the Gentiles. He has taken from them people for His own name, just like He did Abraham. They've been baptized into His name and have joined the family, and this should not surprise us. Why? Because the prophets have spoken about this from long ago, and he quotes Amos here to prove his point. Do you wanna walk us through it?
Christine: Yeah. Sure. Well, you read it already, the passage that he was referring to, which is actually from the very end of Amos. And what's very interesting about that, which, yeah, going to Amos is helpful [laughs] in this case, what's interesting and what you'll notice is that there are some differences because if your Bible is like mine, then it is translated from Hebrew.
David: Hebrew. Amos is translated from Hebrew.
Christine: Yes.
David: Yes. In my Bible, too.
Christine: Yes, from Hebrew-
David: Yes
Christine: ... to English. That is not the Bible that James was speaking from.
David: No.
Christine: He was using the Septuagint, which is, has some differences there. So-
David: And 'cause it's translated from Greek.
Christine: Yes. Yeah.
David: Or it was Greek. [laughs]
Christine: It was Greek.
David: It wasn't translated from Greek.
Christine: They're just... Yeah.
David: Yeah, they're just in Greek.
Christine: They're in Greek.
David: Yeah.
Christine: And, and so it's very noteworthy that there seems to be some shifts-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... from the Hebrew to the Greek that James is leaning kind of heavily on.
David: Mm-hmm.
Christine: It's like this is a legitimate way to interpret what's going on in these days, 'cause this is-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... what the prophets said.
David: So just to say again what Christine has said here is, uh, the Amos that is probably in your Bible, if you've got, like, an ESV, an NIV, an NRSV, is translated from the Hebrew to English. Uh, the English you have in your New Testament of the quoted passage in Amos and Acts is translated from Greek into English, and it's quoted from James quoting the Septuagint, which was Greek. And so if it feels different, your Bible's not contradicting itself. [laughs]
Christine: It's not.
David: These are just two different translations, and James is doing interpretation of Amos while he's doing this translation.
Christine: Yes.
David: Or presenting this translation. Okay, just wanted to make, try to make that as clear as possible. Probably didn't do a great job. Go ahead.
Christine: No, it was good, really helpful. And we were talking about Moses and Abraham a lot, and he brings in David.
David: Yes.
Christine: Who's not either of those people.
David: But another key figure.
Christine: Another key figure with a covenant connected.
David: Yep.
Christine: And so he talks about that day, which is the day of the Lord. And so, "After this, I will return and rebuild David's fallen tent." So that's his house, his dynasty-
David: Mm-hmm
Christine: ... his reign.
David: Which, which if you need a refresher, in 2 Samuel 7, not you, Christine, but all of our friends listening.
Christine: I need a refresher [laughs] in 2 Samuel 7.
David: But God tells David that He will build him a house, and of that he means, "I'm gonna build you a family, a dynasty, and a messiah, a king, is going to come from your line, your house-
Christine: Mm-hmm
David: ... your family, and of the reign of his house and dynasty, there will be no end." So that's the covenant that's attached to David.
Christine: Again, an interesting just side meditation there, that David is conscience-stricken because he's living in a house of cedar, and he wants to build a house for God because God is currently living in a tent.
David: Mm-hmm.
Christine: Which is so mobile and inconvenient, and he's like, "I'm gonna build Him a house of cedar." And God's like, "Um, I'll build you a house-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... which will be very mobile, 'cause I'm talking about people."
David: Yep.
Christine: So-
David: My house will be on two feet.
Christine: Yes. [laughs] And many, in fact. It'll be very mobile, and anyways, that's just cool. Again, the dwelling of God on Earth.
David: Yep.
Christine: He prefers mobile people.
David: And so that's the rebuilding of the dwelling of David-
Christine: Yes
David: ... which has fallen because the line of David and the reign of the Davidic kingdom had fallen off since exile.
Christine: Yeah, it's in disrepair, and Amos the prophet was all about that, calling out the, the evil of, [laughs] of the kings that were abusing God's people and God's commands. And so the fact that he's quoting Amos is, again, just another promise at the end of Amos that, yes, Israel will be judged and destroyed, but there will be a restoration of David's fallen tent.
David: Also, just the fact that he's quoting Amos and all that Amos was doing, 'cause you, you could've kind of made this argument from multiple passages about this new king who's gonna bring in the Gentiles. You could've quoted Isaiah very easily, but he quotes Amos, and it's interesting that he does that when talking about the yoke that we weren't able to bear. He's like, "We weren't able to keep it perfectly. Look at Amos, remember?" And what was God's promise? We're gonna get to it, but that we're not the full solution. The Jews aren't the full solution to a righteous kingdom of God on Earth that fulfills David.
Christine: Yeah. Yeah, or the end.
David: Yeah, we're not the end.
Christine: 'Cause God gave a promise to David that He is going to fulfill because of who He is.
David: Right.
Christine: Because of who God is, and even though David's house fell into disrepair, and his dynasty was fading into oblivion, nevertheless, "I will rebuild David's fallen tent and restore it, and that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who bear my name," says the Lord, who does these things, "that have been known for ages," which is a little different from the possessing the remnant of Eden that the Hebrew version of Amos 9:12 says.
David: Mm.
Christine: So the Septuagint makes a shift in that translation, and it's the translation that we see translated to English in Acts.
David: I see.
Christine: And so there's a shift there about the remnant of men may seek the Lord.And that all the Gentiles who bear my name may come in. So rather than being a possession of Edom, the enemies of God, and Edomites were in fact an Abrahamic-
David: Mm-hmm
Christine: ... descendant, but this is an extension of Gentiles being brought in once David's tent is restored. So kind of to summarize [laughs]
David: Whoa
Christine: ... the messianic reign of the new David begins when Gentiles are being included-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... in the tent.
David: That's right.
Christine: And so, and not as new Jews, but as Gentiles.
David: That's right. Yeah. So he's saying, what he's saying by quoting Amos here and quoting him in the way that he does with the Septuagint is he's using the testimony of Peter and Paul and Barnabas of all the miracles that God is doing in saving Gentiles to prove that the prophecy of Amos is coming true and that it should be expected that when the true Davidic king sits on his throne, the Gentiles will be a part of that.
Christine: Yeah, and interestingly, that's counter to what maybe some people were hoping for. The restoration of David's tent is not going to take us back to some past version of old Israel-
David: Mm
Christine: ... like the golden years of David or whatever. It's actually going to usher in a new era where Gentiles are brought in in this new messianic reign under David.
David: Mm-hmm.
Christine: And so you pointed out Peter says that the fact that the Holy Spirit is being given to Gentiles outside the borders of, quote-unquote, "old Israel" territory means that this reign has indeed begun under Jesus.
David: Yeah.
Christine: He is ascended. We saw him. He is the Son of David who's reigning, and this was foretold by Amos back in old Israel [laughs] time-
David: Right
Christine: ... whe- that these Gentiles would be brought in again, not as Jews. They're not converting to Judaism or taking on the name of Yahweh in that sense.
David: They are coming under the kingship of Jesus-
Christine: Yes
David: ... or of the Messiah.
Christine: Yes.
David: Yes.
Christine: Yes, they are.
David: Okay.
Christine: So.
David: Wow. So i- okay, helpful. So inclusion in this new global kingdom is not predicated upon by Mosaic law or even circumcision-
Christine: But on the ascension of-
David: But on the ascension of the king.
Christine: Yes. The fact that-
David: Oh, so good
Christine: ... David's tent is rebuilt, the fact that we [laughs] have David's son on the throne means the Gentiles are being brought in. Which this-
David: Because now the world is under his kingdom.
Christine: Yeah.
David: Okay.
Christine: Yeah. This is why the church is going to the nations, because God is going to the nations. In this new era of the messianic reign, that is what we do under the reign of Jesus. We bring in the Gentiles, and the Gentiles come under the tent of David.
David: Yeah.
Christine: Again, not as Jews, but as Gentiles.
David: And we follow God doing that.
Christine: Yes.
David: He's the one doing it.
Christine: Yes, 'cause it, he promised that-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... long ago.
David: Oh, it's so cool.
Christine: And so-
David: Yeah, I like that he's saying this is not a problem we didn't think we'd have to solve.
Christine: Yeah.
David: Like, this-
Christine: God said this would happen.
David: Yeah. W- we are square in the middle of God's sovereignty and plan here, guys.
Christine: Yes.
David: So there's going to be a good solution.
Christine: Yes.
David: Yeah.
Christine: Yes, which I can't help but think of this being fulfilled or this fulfilling God's promise to Abraham as well, k- because God said he'd be a father of a multitude of nations.
David: That's right.
Christine: And we know that many nations came from Abraham through Isaac, Ishmael, Edom, Moab-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... the Ammonites. Like, those are all Abrahamic nations, but that's still not a multitude of multitudes. And so the fact that he's a father not of one giant nation but a multitude is probably hinting again [laughs] that there's-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... there are many nations coming under, but that doesn't... And that puzzle piece or just pieces keep getting added to that picture. And then in the promise for restoring David's fallen tent, we see that, and this is gonna include Gentiles as Gentiles as well, because this new David is not gonna just increase the borders of Israel, unless you mean by that the entire world.
David: Right.
Christine: But Gentiles are gonna be included in that.
David: Yeah.
Christine: And so.
David: Oh, that's awesome.
Christine: That's really cool.
David: And yeah, it's fulfilled Abraham's promise because Abraham, his descendant, is the descendant of David, the king who has ascended to rule all nations.
Christine: Yes.
David: Amazing.
Christine: And those who put their hope in him have faith like Abraham.
David: Yeah, and they join the kingdom.
Christine: Yeah.
David: Okay.
Christine: Yep. It's so cool.
David: So then James keeps going. "Therefore, I have reached the decision that we should not trouble those Gentiles who are turning to God, but we should write to them to abstain only from things polluted by idols and from sexual immorality and from wha- whatever has been strangled and from blood." Four prohibitions. "For in every city, for generations past, Moses has had those who proclaim him, and he has been read aloud every Sabbath in the synagogues." So here's James' verdict based on the test- the discussion, the testimony of Peter, the testimony of Paul and Barnabas, and the quote from Amos. He's now come to this conclusion which, if you're just reading this and you're not mapping onto the logic like I wasn't the first several times I read it [laughs] you're like, "How did we get to v- these prohibitions of, okay, no idols, no sexual immorality, no- nothing strangled, no drinking blood? Weren't we talking about circumcision?"
Christine: [laughs] That's a good point.
David: He doesn't even mention circumcision.
Christine: Yes.
David: Where did... Wasn't that the discussion? [laughs]
Christine: That's a fair point.
David: It's so weird.
Christine: That's a fair point.
David: All right, let's have a, a long debate about whether or not the Gentiles should be circumcised. End of debate. They don't drink blood.
Christine: [laughs]
David: What-
Christine: What did I miss?
David: ... happened? [laughs] I missed something. Somehow we got to Amos, and then we left circumcision and started talking about blood. I'm so confused.
Christine: [laughs]
David: But, like, that's such a weird move if you're not following the logical train that's been building here. And so we tried to set this up a little bit when we talked about the Day of Atonement in, uh, in Leviticus 16.
Christine: That's right, yeah.
David: And so there are laws that are given to Gentile converts, if you wanna put it that way, or, you know, people, Gentiles living in Israel, the, which are called sojourners in the Torah, and, um, these laws that are given to them, I wanna be honest here, there are more than these four.Because they have certain laws about city of manslayers that apply to them as well.
Christine: Yeah, and the Ten Commandments would definitely apply.
David: That's right.
Christine: It's not like, okay, don't eat blood, but if you kill someone, we'll look over that.
David: We'll ... It's totally fine.
Christine: It's like, no. [laughs]
David: Yeah. The point here is he is showing their identity.
Christine: Yes. He's showing who they are in-
David: Yes
Christine: ... Israel, the world-
David: That's right
Christine: ... under King David.
David: So it's-
Christine: Yeah
David: ... we shouldn't read these four as exclusive commandments for Gentile Christians, that these are the only four things you don't have to do.
Christine: Yes.
David: You know?
Christine: Please honor your father and mother.
David: Yes.
Christine: That is a command-
David: Right
Christine: ... very much.
David: So-
Christine: And in fact, the whole Torah is commanded, 'cause he says Moses is read in the synagogue.
David: Yeah.
Christine: So they know based off of what we say and prohibit and allow, they will know what we mean.
David: But here's the move that James makes that we all need to try to track onto because, and again, not a no-brainer, but this does, for me, it's helped me simplify the conversation a little bit. So what he does is he's showing the Gentiles who they are in the new global kingdom of God. So he's saying, "Abstain from things that are polluted by idols, sexual immorality, abstain from things that are strangled, and from blood." These are the four things that are commanded of the sojourners in the land of Israel after the Day of Atonement. And so what he's doing is he's locating the Gentiles in the story of the Torah and in the Law of Moses.
Christine: Yes.
David: He's saying, "The Law of Moses applies to you."
Christine: 100%.
David: But how? It applies to you because of not how necessarily, but who. Who are you? You fit inside this category of sojourner. You are an alien. You know, a- and may- that's not maybe the most helpful language now, but in the Torah, these are non-Jewish people living in the land of Israel and covenanting in and being a part of the family of God in Israel.
Christine: They're part of the ecosystem of Israel.
David: That's right. They're obeying the Ten Commandments. If they kill someone, they have to go through the process of the manslayer and the trial and all that kind of stuff. They are in the justice system of Israel.
Christine: Yes. They have to serve the God of Israel-
David: They have to serve the God of Israel
Christine: ... because idolatry is not permitted-
David: That's right
Christine: ... in Israel.
David: But-
Christine: You can keep your customs-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... insofar as they do not violate the laws of Moses that the God of Israel-
David: Yes
Christine: ... put in place.
David: But they are not commanded to do certain things that specifically circumcised Jewish Hebrew people are.
Christine: Yeah.
David: Like certain food laws, certain ways to wear your hair or your clothes, certain things to do with your clothes or to do with your fields, or there, there are-
Christine: Yeah, or even the f- kind of animals you eat.
David: Yeah.
Christine: So long as it's not strangled-
David: That's right
Christine: ... and offered to a demon.
David: Yeah.
Christine: It's permissible for you.
David: That's right. So Gentiles, keep eating bacon. Just make sure that pig wasn't sacrificed to an idol or strangled, and don't drink its blood.
Christine: Yes.
David: And so, like, I don't know if I, how, if I'm just repeating myself or saying it with increasing clarity, but the idea here is the Torah, the Law of Moses, has provisions for this exact people group that the church is interacting with, of people who are joining the family of God but are not culturally or ethnically Jewish. And the Torah has provisions for them and tells the people of God how to treat them.
Christine: Yeah.
David: And it says they need to serve the God of Israel. They need to abstain from all the pagan practices that came from their nations.
Christine: Yes. There's, like, one of the things that he prohibits is sexual immorality, which if you were to ask, what does that entail, well, read Leviticus 18-
David: Yep
Christine: ... and you will know exactly what that means.
David: Exactly.
Christine: And he assumes that they know exactly what that means-
David: Yes
Christine: ... because he says they can hear Moses read. So they're listening to Moses. They're under Moses, and this is how they're faithful to King Jesus.
David: That's right, and now we're showing them who they are and how to obey.
Christine: Yes.
David: But they're not commanded to do a lot of the things that Jews are commanded to do.
Christine: Yeah.
David: And so this goes back to the concentric circles idea-
Christine: Yeah
David: ... of there are things that are required of the Jews that won't be required of the Gentiles after this edict goes out from James and the Jerusalem Council, that they have interpreted the Torah in such a consistent way that says, "Look, we will keep being Jews. You keep being Ephesian or Listerian or whatever. You can keep your culture. You can keep your diet. You can keep the things about you and your people that make you distinct and unique."
Christine: Yeah.
David: You don't have to become culturally Jewish.
Christine: Yeah.
David: But you do have to worship Yahweh alone, like, do the things that would make you an Israelite in those ways. You need to abstain from all the pagan practices, but you don't have to be Jewish the way we are.
Christine: Yeah. That's really helpful. You can be culturally Gentile.
David: Mm-hmm, but religiously Jewish.
Christine: Yes.
David: If, if we, if we wanna say it that way.
Christine: Yeah. Yeah.
David: Cultically Jewish-
Christine: Yeah
David: ... or something like that. Yeah.
Christine: Yeah.
David: Yeah. So-
Christine: Super helpful
David: ... so if you wanted to, which Christine and I did a little bit, but only cursory, if you wanna go back through your Law of Moses, it would be a fun exercise, and go look for all the laws that apply specifically to sojourners, and you would start to get a picture of the things that are applied to them. And you'll notice there's, by extension, things like the city of the manslayer means, oh, this person's under the law to not murder, which probably means they're under the law of the Ten Commandments. So you start to kind of see how they would, as the Torah is read over them on the Sabbath in synagogues, how they would start to see themselves in the story of the Torah, in the Law of Moses.
Christine: Yeah.
David: So it'd be a fun exercise to go do.
Christine: Yeah. Yeah.
David: But I think that's how James got there-
Christine: Yeah
David: ... and the council. I think that's how they got there.
Christine: Yeah.
David: Where they're like, "Let's keep treating them the way the Torah has always treated them."
Christine: Yeah. Exactly. That's a very good way of putting it.
David: Right.
Christine: We'll treat them the way God has always commanded His people to treat them. They are in the family. They are in the ecosystem of Israel because the world is now Israel.And so long as they are filled with the Spirit, baptized, and are partaking of the family meal and, you know, submitting to these four prohibitions that we're putting down that you can look into and see how that kind of pans out, they're one of us.
David: Yeah.
Christine: They are family.
David: And what this doesn't mean is that Jews should stop being Jews.
Christine: No.
David: Right? They should keep going. [laughs]
Christine: Yeah.
David: They should keep being Jewish. It also doesn't mean that it's wrong for a Gentile to eat a kosher diet.
Christine: Yeah.
David: There's nothing wrong with that.
Christine: Yeah. But that's not what makes or breaks your inclusion in the Kingdom of Jesus.
David: Nor does it increase your holiness in a certain way. Like, becoming more Jewish isn't the goal. Becoming more Jesus is.
Christine: Yes.
David: And that's why they- they're just offering these prohibitions, is they're saying, "Don't keep joining with the pagan gods-
Christine: Yes
David: ... through these pagan meals."
Christine: Yes. 'Cause-
David: Instead, there's one meal that you can be included in.
Christine: There's one table and one God.
David: Yeah.
Christine: Yeah.
David: Come eat of Him.
Christine: Yes.
David: And you can drink that blood. [laughs]
Christine: Yes. That's the only blood allowed, which why would you want any other? [laughs]
David: Yeah.
Christine: But yeah. Well, it kind of shows that, okay, one, the outer circle of the-
David: The concentric circles of holiness
Christine: ... the concentric circles have, has broken off.
David: Yeah.
Christine: All, like, that pagan Gentile territory where we don't have to go and make people do this or that that's within Israel's borders is now fallen off. Like, because Jesus is reigning on His throne and His reign has begun, the whole world is now His kingdom.
David: That's right.
Christine: And so you can't get out of His borders [laughs] 'cause the, the whole world belongs to Him. And so given that you can't escape His borders, this is how you are to live in His kingdom. So there's continuity, and there's also a bit of a change because there's a, a concentric circle outside that is no longer existing. You can't-
David: Yeah, there's no place over which Jesus does not say, "Mine."
Christine: Yeah.
David: Yeah.
Christine: You can't go back to some domain of darkness. You can't go back to a domain of a pagan god and say, "Well, as long as I serve on his mountain." Nope. That mountain belongs to Jesus. [laughs]
David: Yeah.
Christine: So you can serve one God in Jesus' kingdom and call yourself a Christian, you know-
David: Mm
Christine: ... and be a part of the, the family of God.
David: Yeah. And so after they come to this decision, they decide to write a letter to the churches which says this: "The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers of Gentile origin in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that certain persons who have gone out from us, though with no instruction from us, [laughs] have said things to disturb you and have unsettled your minds, we have decided unanimously to choose men and send them to you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, who have risked their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to impose on you no further burden than these essentials, that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourself from these, you will do well. Farewell." And there's the letter.
Christine: So beautiful and considerate. The whole council is making sure that these people are encouraged, that they are making themselves clear. They're sending personal eyewitnesses who were at the council to confirm by word of mouth what is being sent to them in writing.
David: They're clearing up the, the words that were spoken to them by people not sent from them.
Christine: Yes, yes, and without naming names or-
David: Yep
Christine: ... saying anything bad about them, just saying, like, "We heard that there were some people who caused you con- some concern, and we would like to clear things up."
David: Yeah.
Christine: And-
David: It's very considerate.
Christine: Yeah, and the fact that they came to this unanimously is also cool.
David: That is cool.
Christine: It wasn't like one person was the loudest in the room and everyone listened. It was like, no, this was not a no-brainer, as you said earlier.
David: Yeah.
Christine: We debate on the, about this. We were discussing. We were searching the scriptures. [laughs]
David: [laughs]
Christine: What, what is-
David: Yes, they were
Christine: ... what is prevalent right now, given that Jesus is on the throne and David's tent is restored and holiness is required of everybody-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... and the Spirit has been poured out? Well, these are the things that we would like to tell you and not burden you beyond that.
David: Yeah.
Christine: And you will do well to keep these things. So it's just really, really cool the consideration that kind of shows in this-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... and how they send it and what they cover.
David: And it's cool. Again, I think I brought this up in an earlier episode, but it's also beautiful to see the unity of the church fought for in a very clear era of disagreement and diversity-
Christine: Yeah
David: ... and different practices. He didn't say, "Hey, and you gotta worship this exact way, and you need to dress this exact way, and your churches need to be designed this exact way." It was, "Look, we know it's gonna look different to be Christian in Corinth. Just stop pagan worship. [laughs] Just stop it and worship Jesus alone. That's the requirement." And so I just think that is so beautiful to show that there is unity in diversity.
Christine: Yeah.
David: They're not pushing towards some kind of cultural or ethnical homogeny in all of this, but they're pushing towards kingdom obedience and service of King Jesus.
Christine: Yes. There isn't compromise in holiness.
David: No.
Christine: In a strange way, it's, there is the diversity that is not compromising with heresy-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... or with other tables of other gods.
David: Yeah.
Christine: It's like you are going to partake of one sacrificial meal-And that is with one God, and you can be who you are in the kingdom of God.
David: Yeah.
Christine: And so that carries with it-
David: A holy version of your, of who you are.
Christine: Yeah. You can be-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... the holy version of you, the true version of you.
David: The called out version.
Christine: Yeah.
David: Yeah.
Christine: Yeah. The one who's been called out, and this is good news, and we are one body.
David: Mm-hmm.
Christine: So you're one body in Christ.
David: Yeah. So I think as I kind of give my last thought here, I just think it's beautiful to see how the apostles and the Jerusalem Council had to see Jesus as the fulfillment of all of Scripture to get to this decision. They had to see how He was the one to whom circumcision pointed and in whom it was fulfilled, and now people are being baptized into His name, and He's the one who incorporates people into the family of God. They had to see He is the one that Moses spoke of and was pointed toward and the one who has now fulfilled the tabernacle and the atonement, and He's made all things clean and is now inviting people to join that kingdom, um, as the ascended k- King, and He's now the, the new David. And He's ruling on the high throne and has restored deflated and destroyed tent of David. And it is only as seeing Jesus as the fulfillment of the story of Israel that they were able to rightly interpret Torah and apply it to the Church. And I just think that's so beautiful. What about you? What are, what are you thinking as we close?
Christine: I love how it, it does show that anyone can join the kingdom of God.
David: Yeah.
Christine: And we kind of needed earlier stories in Acts to get to this point, I think. We needed to remember that, oh, wow, circumcision can no longer be a prerequisite because eunuchs are welcome-
David: Yes
Christine: ... and can be baptized.
David: Yeah.
Christine: And, you know, to require circumcision would be to discredit people that Jesus already claimed.
David: He's already gone ahead there.
Christine: And so... Yeah.
David: Yeah.
Christine: He's already gone ahead. Don't test Him and say, "Actually, no, you can't let this person in because of this and this reason." And also with Peter's vision of Cornelius and being commanded to ingest something that he deemed unclean, and Jesus says, "No, I have made it clean. You can receive that into your body 'cause I take nothing unclean into myself, and I am taking in the Gentiles." And so we needed chapter eight of Acts. We needed chapter 10 of Acts. We needed even nine [laughs] where, you know, even a Jew of Jews needed drastic, desperate saving.
David: Mm-hmm.
Christine: And all those things considered, we can come to hear and realize, wow, anyone can get in. No matter where you're from, who you are, you can become holy-
David: Yeah
Christine: ... and be holy as God is holy. It's not about compromising with darkness.
David: No.
Christine: It's about being called out of it completely, but not in a way that's impossible to you anymore.
David: Yeah. I'm thinking about the, the two original audiences that would've heard this message, too, 'cause as much as we need that message, the original audience really needed it 'cause they were knee-deep in this issue. And I'm thinking about, yes, the Jews who would've read Luke's work, eventually heard it read out loud, and this would've been... And they needed that stairstep [laughs] to get to Acts 15, where they could've heard the words of the Jerusalem Council in its narrative form or they might have heard it in its letter form to begin with.
Christine: Yeah.
David: And now they're getting to hear everything that led up to it. You know, "Hey, we heard from Peter." "Well, what did Peter say?" "Oh, now I know. Here's the whole story." But I'm also thinking about Theophilus-
Christine: Hmm
David: ... and, you know, who was not Jewish. He was Greek.
Christine: Luke wasn't Jewish either.
David: Luke wasn't Jewish.
Christine: Yeah.
David: And would've meant for Luke to write it, for Theophilus to read it, and to know, oh, my gosh, here I am in the Torah.
Christine: Yeah.
David: I'm in the Torah as a Gentile. I'm included in the people of God. In Leviticus 17, my name is in there, sojourner. I belong to the family of God, and I know what a covenantal participation, Torah participation looks like, not in some new-fangled way, although it has been new-fangled. [laughs] But I'm in Leviticus, and-
Christine: Yeah
David: ... I've been read into that story. Imagine what it meant to them and the beauty of being brought into the story of Yahweh and the people of Yahweh in that way.
Christine: I'm, I'm a child of Abraham.
David: Yeah.
Christine: I am a follower of Moses. I am a co-heir with the son of David. How do these things [laughs] apply to a Gentile like me?
David: Now I know.
Christine: It's beautiful.
David: Yeah.
Christine: Yeah, 'cause Jesus comes and atones the world, and all things and all lands belong to Him, and all things are under His jurisdiction, so.
David: It's beautiful. Well, everyone-
Christine: It's awesome
David: ... thank you so much for going on this journey with us through the Book of Acts. It has been so fun. We're excited to jump into our next book on our next episode, but I'll save the, the announcement of that both for your anticipation and our consideration [laughs] as we-
Christine: [laughs]
David: ... make a plan. But we're, we're thinking about going to Luke next, as we're already in one of his books, but who knows? Don't hold us to that. But thank you all so much for being on this journey with us. Go read Acts again, and, um, may the Kingdom of God dwell in your midst, in Jesus' name.
Christine: Go and be holy.
Outro: [upbeat music] Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel creates short films, devotionals, and podcasts like this one. Everything we make is free because of generous supporters like you. To see our resources, visit spokengospel.com or subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. See you next time. [upbeat music]
