Intro: [upbeat music] Welcome to the Spoken Gospel Podcast. Spoken Gospel is a nonprofit dedicated to the idea that every part of the Bible, Old Testament and New, is about Jesus, and this podcast is our experiment to publicly test that belief. Every episode, hosts David Bowden and Seth Stewart work through a biblical text to see how it helps us see and savor Jesus. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]
David: Well, welcome everyone to the Spoken Gospel Podcast. Thank you for joining us. My name is David Bowden.
Seth: Is it?
David: I never say my name at the beginning-
Seth: [laughs]
David: ... of these things.
Seth: Yeah.
David: I've always wondered that.
Seth: And it's always just, "And this is my..."
David: And with me as always-
Seth: Always
David: ... is my compatriot, uh-
Seth: Partner in crime
David: ... sh- sous chef.
Seth: Sous ch- That's true.
David: Partner in sh- partner in cheffery.
Seth: Partner in cheffery.
David: Seth Stewart.
Seth: Seth Stewart.
David: How was that? Was that-
Seth: If I have a Twitter... If I had a Twitter-
David: Yes
Seth: ... I would put partner in cheffery-
David: [laughs]
Seth: ... as my bio. [laughs]
David: [laughs] And no one would know what it meant.
Seth: And nobody would know what that means.
David: Unless they listened to this-
Seth: To this episode
David: ... very exciting episode on Joshua 10 through 12, which is... Everyone's gonna flock to this episode. You watch.
Seth: It's gonna be... It's, I mean, it's-
David: No, no, they're gonna go to next week's with the land allotments.
Seth: Oh, the land allotments is particularly exciting.
David: Yes.
Seth: Actually, you're really excited about the land allotments.
David: I am actually, 'cause you made me write the deals for the-
Seth: Yeah. [laughs]
David: [laughs]
Seth: More excited than you are-
David: I'll, I'll vent about that next week.
Seth: Uh, but more excited than you are for these particular passages, potentially.
David: Yes, I think so, 'cause I spent more time meditating on them.
Seth: Yeah.
David: You've spent more time meditating on this passage. Uh-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and you still kind of are like, "Well, this might be a shorter episode." We'll see.
Seth: Yeah. I think partly because of the... Like, it's almost so much happens in these-
David: Mm
Seth: ... next couple chapters, it's kind of hard to get your head around, so.
David: Yeah, it's strange. It's like we're used to hearing all these preparations for the battles that the people are about to go through, how it's supposed to happen, who gave them the commandment, what exactly happened, when.
Seth: Yeah, battle strategy. Go ambush them-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... by going to the south side of the city.
David: And then all of the sudden, here in these two chapters, they conquer, like, the whole land.
Seth: Yes.
David: And it's, like, all over.
Seth: 37-
David: 31 kings are listed.
Seth: Yeah, 31 kings. Uh, and but w- the... So there is a narrative effect if you're paying attention for such things.
David: Mm.
Seth: So you have, like, Jericho and Ai.
David: Okay.
Seth: And then you have the five king- the coalition against the five kings, and they all get, like, whole chapters, multiple chapters dedicated to them. And then here, as Israel moves... So, like, when they came into the Jor- into the land of Canaan, they kinda come into, like, the middle of it, so the middle hill country.
David: Uh-huh.
Seth: So the middle of the country is a whole bunch of hills. That's where they cross over the Jordan River. That's where, uh, Shechem is. That's where Jericho is. That's where Ai is. And they kinda take over that central spot, and then they move down to the south.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And all those battles in the central hill country, um, take multiple chapters, but when they go down to the south, they all speed up.
David: Right.
Seth: So there's still more... There's still details about how the battles take place, where they go, some, like, narrative details-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... about how they take it over, whether or not they burn the city or whatever. And then when they go up to the north, it speeds up even more. Less details are given.
David: Mm.
Seth: More place names and kings are given. And then by chap- by the time you get to chapter 12, it's not even... No narrative details. It's just king defeated, king defeated, king defeated.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So as you're reading it, it should kinda like play with your sense of time.
David: Right.
Seth: Like, as, like, one military campaign takes, uh, you know, a week and three chapters of scripture-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and then by the end of it, whole years' worth of conquest-
David: Or in half a verse
Seth: ... are happening half... in half a verse.
David: [laughs]
Seth: So it's like [laughs] you have this compounding sense that God is, like, speeding up history-
David: Mm
Seth: ... for, uh, Israel's victory.
David: Right. Which I, I suppose if there's theological truth to be gleaned from that, other than, like, hey, it's narra- it's narratively brilliant.
Seth: Yeah.
David: We're speeding it up.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Uh, it's like we showed you how victory works and how defeat works in Jericho and Ai respectively, right?
Seth: Mm-hmm, right.
David: And now this is how the rest panned out.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so we can make, make assumptions about how Israel's heart was during that time because we're not given details.
Seth: Yes.
David: Uh, but then-
Seth: It's like if you've seen-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... Into the Spider-Verse-
David: Oh, yes, so good
Seth: ... how, uh, the first, like, prequel when they t-
David: Oh, yes
Seth: ... they talk about how, uh, Peter Parker's origin story, basically-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... the first version, but by the time you get to the Pig-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... Spider-Pig, it's, like, two seconds long.
David: That's right.
Seth: You don't need all the details anymore.
David: Because they all follow the same formula.
Seth: They all follow the same formula.
David: Yes.
Seth: So they go b- stack on top of each other. You're like, "Oh, man, this is exciting. What next?"
David: Right.
Seth: That's what's happening.
David: That's true. And it's also probably supposed to communicate th- the effortlessness of God's mighty arm.
Seth: Yes.
David: That it's just like, "And this king? This king?" You know, like, I can just knock 'em off. Uh, you know, I, I just have to think that especially, like, when Israel is told that they're going to win, it's, "I've given this city over to you. I've given you victory."
Seth: Yes.
David: And so God has given them the land, which he says, I believe, in this passage.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Um, and it's like proof positive. Here you go. One fell swoop and two short chapters-
Seth: Yeah, I-
David: ... it's yours.
Seth: What you're supposed to take away from it is, like, the Lord has given the land to Israel.
David: Yes.
Seth: The Lord has fought for Israel and has given it to... I think four different times in this-
David: Mm
Seth: ... in this section, we're told that the Lord fights for Israel, um, and gives them all the land. So it's pretty clear, and they do it because Israel's obedient.
David: Right.
Seth: I think over and over again, we hear the phrase, uh, "And Joshua did just as he was commanded," or, "Just as the Lord said-
David: Yes
Seth: ... Joshua did."
David: Right.
Seth: So you have victory, like, increasingly sped-up visions of victory and battle at the same time of Go- of Joshua and Israel's consistent obedience.
David: Mm.
Seth: So as Israel's obedient, more and more victory happens, and the land is taken over-
David: Okay
Seth: ... until they have rest.
David: That's helpful.
Seth: Yeah.
David: I think that's helpful. Okay. So give me the quick sweep through, then. Follow the narrative speed.
Seth: Okay, okay, okay.
David: And just help us... 'Cause it's kind of confusing to read, and it's also a little glazy to the eyes sometimes.
Seth: Mm-hmm, it is glazy. I glazed many times-
David: Yes
Seth: ... as I was preparing for this. [laughs]
David: And so maybe, uh, get, give everyone here listening-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... a little, a little narrati- a narrative version-
Seth: Sure
David: ... of what happens in these two and a half chapters.
Seth: So Joshua 10:29 begins the conquest s- of southern Canaan, and it records the six victories in southern Canaan.
David: Okay.
Seth: And they move, if you have a map in front of you, basically from northwest to northeast or southwest to southeast. So just imagine, like, a little crescent-
David: Oh, okay
Seth: ... uh, from-Down and then back up again.
David: Okay.
Seth: That they're just wiping out all those, uh, cities along the way. And they're all about six or seven miles away from each other, so it's like they hit one, stay there, hit the next one-
David: Mm
Seth: ... stay there, hit the next one, stay there, until the whole southern Canaan is, um, destroyed.
David: Okay.
Seth: And you have, um, at the very end, you have a kind of a concluding, like, um, summary of why were they successful. Uh, "And Joshua captured all these kings and their land at one time," so one military campaign, "because the Lord God of Israel fought for Israel."
David: Mm.
Seth: "Then Joshua returned with Israel, uh, with him to the camp at Gilgal," which is right there by the Jordan River where they first s- started.
David: Okay.
Seth: So whole southern kingdom-
David: Southern kingdom done-
Seth: One, one campaign
David: ... because God fought for them.
Seth: That's exactly right.
David: Got it.
Seth: Then when you go back to the northern kingdom, so they come back to their central p- perch in the middle of the hill country.
David: Yes.
Seth: They're looking down on the northern kingdom. And as they look down on the northern kingdom, you have a repetition of a, another coalition.
David: Right.
Seth: You have another coalition.
David: Just like the five kings.
Seth: Just like the five kings in the south, there's a coalition of several more kings in the north, and we're only given two names-
David: And-
Seth: ... Jabin and Jobab.
David: Okay. But it's a-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... there's, like, more s- more peoples listed, right?
Seth: Yes. There's-
David: So it's like there is an amplification here.
Seth: Yes.
David: Right.
Seth: Yes. And so you, uh, and they, and then you also have some, like, fun narrative details which gives drama. So verse four, "And they," referring to the em- enemy armies, "came out with all their troops, a great horde in number-"
David: Wow
Seth: ... "like the sand that is on the seashore."
David: Yeah, that, that's how Israel's supposed to be described.
Seth: Yes.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And a great horde in num- or, sorry, with very many horses and chariots. So this also represents a technological advancement-
David: Oh
Seth: ... in the enemies that they're facing. So you don't have any mention of chariots or tech- technology like this.
David: In the land yet.
Seth: But do you remember, do you remember the last time you read about chariots in scripture?
David: I mean, is it Exodus?
Seth: It's Exodus-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... with Pharaoh.
David: Right.
Seth: So it's like an amplification of the battle. You have the enemies being described as Israel is supposed to be described according to the promise of Abraham.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And they're filled with the technology of the land of Egypt.
David: They have as many people as Israel-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... but as big of guns as Egypt. [laughs]
Seth: Yes, yes. [laughs]
David: So it's like, it's a big deal.
Seth: That's a really funny-
David: It's a big battle
Seth: ... um, and then so it's important then in verse six, we see, "And the Lord said to Joshua, 'Do not be afraid of them.'" [laughs]
David: [laughs] Thanks, God, 'cause I would be very scared.
Seth: And for, "Because tomorrow at this time, I will give them over all, uh, I will give over all of them slain to Israel. You will hamstring their horses and burn their chariots with fire." The technological advancements that-
David: Mm
Seth: ... are represented in the north will be of no consequence.
David: And the population advantage is of no consequence 'cause all of them will be handed over tomorrow.
Seth: Yes.
David: You can't kill that many people in one day. Like- [laughs]
Seth: Yes.
David: You know? [laughs]
Seth: You cannot. Uh, yes, that's exactly right. It's a, it's a big deal.
David: It's a big deal.
Seth: Um, and it, a- and I don't know if it literally has to happen in a day, but it's like the decisive-
David: Yeah, yeah, yeah
Seth: ... victory is won-
David: Totally
Seth: ... in, in a day.
David: Yes.
Seth: Because I think the idea is this took several months probably-
David: Yes
Seth: ... to get through it. And the big se- and the big deal here, too, is so that's a big deal.
David: Uh-huh.
Seth: God's defeating them when they're not afraid, and they're trusting in him. But they're also taking, uh, they're also, the obedience, sorry, is mentioned again verse 15. "Just as the Lord had commanded Moses his servant, so Moses commanded Joshua, and so Joshua did. He left nothing undone of all that the Lord had commanded to Moses."
David: Yeah, which is an important theme that gets repeated in 12, right?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Okay.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Just wanna flag that.
Seth: Uh, yep, and so they go through all the cities, destroying them, and they burn one city to the ground named Hazor.
David: Mm.
Seth: And Hazor was essentially the military capital of Canaan, so, or just the civilization capital of Canaan. It was the largest, biggest, most impressive city, and it's part of the reason why they probably- it's the only city that we're, that we're told that's burned to the ground.
David: Oh.
Seth: So it was the center of all that idolatrous, child-sacrificing-
David: Oh
Seth: ... pagan religion practice. It was the cultural center for all that. Like if the villages were practicing child sacrifice and temple prostitution, it was because Hazor was.
David: Mm.
Seth: So Hazor is burned to the ground.
David: Wow.
Seth: It's, it is the devoted to destruction.
David: Yeah, totally.
Seth: Devoted to destruction.
David: Okay. Yeah.
Seth: Um, yeah. And that's pretty much the whole story.
David: Okay.
Seth: And at the very end, starting in verse 16, you kinda have a summary of what's just happened. "So Joshua took all the land, the hill country and the Negev and all the land of Goshen and the lowland and the Arabah, which rises toward Seir, as far as Baal Gad and the valley of Lebanon below Mount Hermon." It's kinda summary of everything-
David: From sea to shining sea.
Seth: That's exactly right.
David: With the amber waves of grain. [laughs]
Seth: And, uh-
David: I'm trying to think about like what would-
Seth: Right
David: ... what would be language that we would understand? 'Cause this is hard for me to listen to.
Seth: From coast to coast.
David: From coast to coast, yeah.
Seth: Um-
David: From Canada to Mexico.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yeah.
Seth: We, like, annihilate.
David: Our intern- [laughs] our international e-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... listeners are like, "What?"
Seth: What? Uh-
David: Sorry.
Seth: Yes, so that's exactly right.
David: Yes.
Seth: So Joshua is, like, his victory is summed up. Interestingly-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... there is some land that's left off of this list.
David: Right.
Seth: So the land, the coastal lands, like right next to the Mediterranean, are probably a really important one.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um-
David: It'd be a hard-fought victory
Seth: ... it'd be a hard-fought victory, and eventually we'll see that Joshua will defeat them later.
David: Yep.
Seth: Uh, but for now, like, they're not mentioned.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And the idea, though, is that Joshua has been obedient to the Lord. They have not been afraid, and every time they go into battle, they win.
David: Because of God.
Seth: Because of God. And even, and so, and then we have this interpretive phrasing in verse 20, which also should get us back to, uh, the land of Egypt. Uh, it says, "For it was the Lord's doing," or, "They took all of them in battle, because it was the Lord's doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be devoted to destruction and receive no mercy, but be destroyed, just as the Lord promised Moses."
David: Mm.
Seth: So same thing we got back in, uh, Egypt with Pharaoh.
David: Yep.
Seth: God hardened Pharaoh's heart. Pharaoh har- hardened his own heart, and then it happened again, and then it happened again. And what did it do? It proved God's power-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and kind of the pride and stupidity of Pharaoh-
David: Right
Seth: ... in the same moment. So the same thing's happening here. You have these-You have these, uh, people who could have chosen to repent like Rahab-
David: Mm
Seth: ... like Gibeon, who are hardheartedly refusing to because of God's hand and they're suffering the consequences-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... for their stupidity and their pride, and God is showing His power, uh, and His promi- and keeping His promises to Israel, let's say.
David: Yeah. And he's told to do so, God does this without mercy.
Seth: Um, yeah, "So that they should receive no mercy, but be destroyed just as the Lord commanded Moses."
David: Yeah. It's just like I, I- uh, that struck me when I was reading it.
Seth: Yeah. It's a, it's a really intense phrase.
David: 'Cause I think, uh, uh, I think a fal- a false belief that probably a lot of Western people have about God-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... is that-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... mercy is, uh, intrinsic to everything He does, or that like-
Seth: Mm
David: ... God is beholden to mercy.
Seth: Yeah.
David: That He must be merciful.
Seth: I mean, He tends towards mercy-
David: Yes
Seth: ... right? So it's like-
David: Absolutely
Seth: ... we talked about how in, when he talks to Moses-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... uh, that He extends mercy to a thousand generations.
David: Yep.
Seth: Uh, or steadfast love to-
David: Mm
Seth: ... thousands of generations, but He will not pardon the guilty to the third and fourth generations.
David: Great.
Seth: There's like mercy outweighs justice in some sense-
David: Yes
Seth: ... but justice still exists. And when you have a civilization for hundreds and hundreds of years that is built on infanticide-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... cult prostitution, um, and then like even just read the ancient accounts of the Amorites, the Canaanites.
David: Mm.
Seth: It's just a brutal society.
David: Yeah.
Seth: God has no mercy for the hard-hearted rejection of Him, uh, that leads to the destruction of the life that He created and He wants to save.
David: Yeah. And so, uh, we, we, we have this final statement then at the end of verse 11 that's really important, right?
Seth: Uh, verse 11? Chapter 11?
David: Uh, or chapter 11.
Seth: Oh, before we get there.
David: Sorry. Okay. Yep.
Seth: So we have the summary account of all of the battles that happen.
David: Mm.
Seth: And then, which is interesting, after that, you get this little phrase in 21 about the Anakim in the hill country.
David: Oh, yes.
Seth: So, and they're in the hill country, which is weird, because they started in the hill country, then they went to the south-
David: Oh
Seth: ... and then went to the north, and now we're back at the hill country after the summary of all the defeats. So the Anakim are a weird bunch of people.
David: It's a whole thing.
Seth: It's a whole thing, but they start in Genesis 6-
David: Right
Seth: ... with these characters called the Nephilim-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... where there's, uh, this weird incident where the sons of God, or the sons of God and the daughters of men have sex maybe-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and create these like demonic, angelic maybe hybrid-type creatures.
David: Yep.
Seth: And regardless of what they actually are-
David: Biologically [laughs]
Seth: ... biologically or spiritually, they're symbolic of like spiritual darkness.
David: Yes.
Seth: And the Book of Numbers picks up, on up, up again-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... and it calls them, the Anakim-
David: Yep
Seth: ... are the descendants of those spiritually dark forces called the Nephilim.
David: The Nephilim, yep.
Seth: And here, the final battle is reserved for these spiritual forces of darkness.
David: Interesting.
Seth: And they're wiped out. Uh, they're the last ones to be wiped out, and they're go- totally destroyed.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And-
David: And we're, we're just, we're just told, like really, really ha- like kinda half-heartedly.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: It's just like, "And Joshua came at that time and cut off the Anakim from the hill country."
Seth: Yep. [laughs]
David: It's like, that was it.
Seth: Yep.
David: Full stop.
Seth: Yep. That's right. And, uh, He destroys them all. Although, listen here, there was none of the, of the Anakim left in the land of the people of Israel, only in Gaza and Gath and Ashdod.
David: Right.
Seth: So there's a couple towns left, and Gath is where Goliath's from.
David: Oh.
Seth: So there is some like-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... uh, but also those towns are so far away, they're not in the hill country.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So it's like they're outside the bounds of what Israel's doing.
David: But inside the land, no more of these spiritual opponents exist.
Seth: That's exactly right.
David: Of the, the, the descendants of the Nephilim. No physical opponents exist, uh, because they've destroyed the Canaanites. And so that's when we get this statement, which is, "And the land had rest from war."
Seth: Yes, "And the land had rest from war."
David: Yeah. Okay.
Seth: So let me ask you the question here.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And this is, and I think you thought about this a little bit more than me. Why is it important that the land has rest from war-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and not the people have rest from war?
David: Yeah. Well, uh, I think, one, we don't have a connection to the land like they did back then, right?
Seth: Yeah.
David: So we just, we don't think about being land people, you know? [laughs] We don't, we're not tied to our land the way that they were.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so for people to have rest from war is for the land to be able to be cultivated. Like, because-
Seth: Oh
David: ... the men of war are coming home and being farmers.
Seth: Right.
David: And so for the land to have rest from war means blood's not being spilt on the ground, seed is, you know?
Seth: Mm.
David: And in like, you know-
Seth: It makes me think-
David: ... it's like chariot wheels tilling up the soil. It's hoes. [laughs]
Seth: It makes me think really differently about that phrase in, is it in Micah, where he says, "You'll turn your swords"-
David: "Swords into plowshares." It's also in Isaiah.
Seth: It's in Isa- it's like, oh-
David: It's, it's twice
Seth: ... it's like, oh, that's really concretely what normally happens.
David: Yep.
Seth: You trade your sword after a military victory for a plowshare-
David: That's right
Seth: ... and plow the land, in the land that you now live in.
David: Yeah. So that is, uh, I think more like boots on the ground, what that means.
Seth: Yeah.
David: But there's a huge th- theological category for this statement as well, which is, uh, because, and it's built for us in the law.
Seth: Yeah.
David: In the Torah. It talks about how, um, at s- at one point, Israel's sin is going to get so out of control, they're gonna be serving rival gods, that God will exile them from the land so that the land can experience its Shabbat, its Sabbath, its rest.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And so there is something about how Israel is in covenant with Yahweh, and like how they are working with God and obeying His law, and how that corresponds to the land of Israel.
Seth: Mm.
David: And so, uh-
Seth: Meaning like-
David: If Israel's obeying God-
Seth: Right
David: ... there's peace in the land. God's presence is in the land. There's purity in the land. There's shalom, Shabbat, peace and rest in the land. Um, but if Israel brings sin into the land, there's discord and war and famine.
Seth: So when you say the rand had, the land had rest, do you mean like, um...I'm thinking about the chaos that normally comes with having, like, a blood-shedding, environment-denying [chuckles] people.
David: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth: So you have a civilization like the Canaanites who probably don't care for creation because they don't have a theology of creation.
David: That's right.
Seth: So it's-
David: The land was not resting under the Canaanites
Seth: ... so they're just destroying it. They're using farming practices that... You know, like, there's, like, all sorts of ancient farming practices that just don't use the ground.
David: That's right.
Seth: And Israel, like you said, "Don't use that land on the seventh year. Let it rest and let it lie fallow so that it can, like, produce more land."
David: Right.
Seth: Maybe that wasn't happening there. Maybe the way that they conducted battle. Like, uh, there's all sorts of laws about you can't, like, salt all the fields to destroy the land-
David: Uh-huh
Seth: ... in the Book of Deuteronomy, in the book of Leviticus for Israel.
David: Right.
Seth: But other nations didn't-
David: They did. Scorched earth policies.
Seth: Scorched earth. They just destroyed everything so nothing could grow there for anybody.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So is that kinda what you mean when you say the land had rest, that you have this civilization that doesn't care about the land, doesn't care about the people, and it's just chaotic mess, so now that when Israel comes in, the land itself can start to, like, refresh and revive?
David: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. That's definitely one component of it, where Canaan, under Canaan, the land of Israel did not have rest. Um, it was under the curse. Brambles and thorns-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... ah, came from the work of the Canaanites' hands.
Seth: That's right.
David: But when Israel comes in, it's everyone will have a tree that they'll sit under. You'll, you'll have vineyards. Your crops will be plentiful, and you have these promises of plenty-
Seth: Okay
David: ... uh, coming in. Um, but there's also this theological category for it that, um, is pointing beyond something than healthy crops and happy donkeys [chuckles]-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and sunshiny days. That's very good, and God gives that to His people, Israel, when they obey Him. That's promised in the law. But there is a peace and shalom that can exist in the land whether or not there are inhabitants there.
Seth: Okay.
David: Like, that's promised in Deuteronomy.
Seth: What do, what do you mean by that, peace in the land is-
David: I mean that, I mean that there is something about the land that God has promised to Israel that is meant to be an, a habitation of peace and purity.
Seth: Mm. So, like, more like conceptually, like when the land has rest from warfare, peace as, like, an idea or, like, as a person, like God, the God of peace-
David: The God of peace comes
Seth: ... can dwell there.
David: Yes.
Seth: Okay.
David: Yes. And, uh, and I think ultimately it's that these little threads have been put in scripture to lead us forward [chuckles] because no matter what happens in Israel, they never find rest. [chuckles]
Seth: Yeah.
David: They never actually get peace. We're about to have all this peace disrupted even in the coming-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... chapters right after-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... it's said. And so I think all I'm saying is that the human heart when it encounters the story of Israel is longing for a utopia-
Seth: Mm
David: ... a place of peace and rest, free from sin and thorns and war and violence and animosity.
Seth: Right.
David: The Garden of Eden. And, like, this is what-
Seth: Wakanda
David: ... there's... Yeah, Wakanda.
Seth: Per-
David: Or Wakanda.
Seth: Yeah.
David: [chuckles]
Seth: I, I... 'Cause I have, like, a category in my mind of, like, a land at rest.
David: Uh-huh.
Seth: It's just... Like you said, like a utopia that you stumble upon. Like, "Oh, this is what the world is supposed to be like."
David: Yeah.
Seth: And I kinda got the... I was rewatching Wakanda with Shiloh, uh-
David: Or Black Panther
Seth: ... Black Panther.
David: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth: Uh, Black Panther with Shiloh.
David: Totally. But, like, I think what I'm getting at is, like, that land can exist-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... whether or not we live in it.
Seth: Oh, okay. Yeah.
David: So it's not just technological-
Seth: It's like God's kingdom?
David: God's kingdom. It's a place where there is peace. It's a kingdom of peace. Like, God made the garden before he put people in it.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: So that's what I'm getting at is, like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... the land had rest. The land had peace.
Seth: Mm.
David: And then Israel as the people of the land were invited into that peace that the land had because there will come a time when Israel will not be at peace with God, and he will exile them out of the land, and then the land will have peace. But Israel won't be in it in, like, engaging in that peace.
Seth: And so, like, I think as, as I've been reading through Joshua already, it's like I've been, like, putting Joshua and the people in the primary, like, position of blessedness.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Like, because they're obeying, they're experiencing release from their enemies so that they can settle in the land and they can have a home.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: But the way that you're making it sound is like, no, like, that's secondary to the idea of the land itself being at rest. Or is it like, no, they're just two themes that are happening simultaneously or-
David: Yeah, they're definitely two themes that are happening sim- happening simultaneously. But God is ransoming for himself a piece of earth-
Seth: Mm
David: ... because he wants to come back and live-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... among his people and dwell with them. And so, like, like, he wants to make Eden again, and so he has to clean up a patch of earth for himself-
Seth: Mm
David: ... that's ritually pure, that's full of shalom, that's full of rest-
Seth: Mm
David: ... that is living in the seventh day of the Garden of Eden.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And he needs a place where he can come and be, a land that has rest.
Seth: That's really interesting to think about l- rest and peace as the primary ends for, like, all the war that we're reading about.
David: Yes.
Seth: Which, I mean, I guess makes sense.
David: Makes sense.
Seth: You don't go to war to have more wars.
David: No.
Seth: You go to war to end war.
David: Yep.
Seth: Um-
David: To get peace
Seth: ... to get peace. Um, so keep that in mind as I just quickly talk about chapter 12.
David: Okay.
Seth: So chapter 12 essentially just rounds out all the remaining victories and summarizes all the victories of Moses and Joshua.
David: Mm.
Seth: Joshua conquers th- in, in total, I think it's 31 kingdoms
David: Yeah, 31 kingdoms.
Seth: Thirty-one kingdoms.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And it's really fast-paced, like as we said before.
David: Yes.
Seth: It's wrapped up. God is bringing peace at an increasingly rapid rate in the land. And I thought it was really interesting that David in Psalm 135 and 136 picks up from here-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and talks about how God giving peace to the land and God defeating her enemies and naming, like, Sihon and Og and some of these characters that we read about here as a, um, evidence of God's steadfast and covenant love.
David: Mm.
Seth: Like, he's... Like, the psalmist is reflecting back on the conquest narrative as proof of God's love-
David: Mm
Seth: ... which I think is pretty cool.
David: That is pretty cool.
Seth: Yeah. [chuckles]
David: Yeah. It's... Yeah, we don't typically read it like that.
Seth: Right. It's like the... It's a problem to be solved. It's, uh, something to explain away. It's a genocide we have to deal with.
David: Uh-huh.
Seth: Like-
David: It's like, no, it's a picture of God's love
Seth: ... it's a picture of God's love.
David: Mm.
Seth: Um, and so I was, like, challenged as I read back on Psalm 135, 136. Like-Do, can I meditate on scripture the way that David did?
David: Mm.
Seth: Can I read the, this as evidence of God's love and, um, the desire, with the desire of his heart being towards peace-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and rest for his people and for his land? [gentle music] Okay, so that's really all that kinda happens in this passage of-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... scripture. We have the taking over the, of the entire land by God's hand through Israel's obedience, and him proving that he is the God over everyone. Any army that looks like Egypt, totally destroyed.
David: Yep. Any spiritual army that's still there-
Seth: Destroyed
David: ... yep.
Seth: It's, it's, so the, the, God wins.
David: God wins.
Seth: That's, at the end-
David: That's the story
Seth: ... of the day, God wins. And it's like, and it just repeats the stories we've already heard in-
David: Mm
Seth: ... uh, Joshua 6, 8, 9, 10.
David: Yep.
Seth: Like, God wins. That's the, the summary of it. So as we think about looking and seeing Jesus in this passage, we kind of have a unique challenge here-
David: Mm
Seth: ... because we're kind of, I think what it feels like is we're being asked to meditate on Jesus, not so much in the details of the text, which it's like there's-
David: There aren't any.
Seth: Yeah. [laughs] There's like, there's not many. Like we have the hardness of Pharaoh's heart.
David: Yep.
Seth: We have, um, the similarity between the armies in Egypt, but really, it's like obedience and victory in battle.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That's all we have. [laughs]
David: Mm.
Seth: And so, uh, the way that I kept thinking about it was like, man, I think we need to meditate on Jesus as a warrior.
David: Yeah, because that is a biblical category.
Seth: It is a biblical category.
David: And we don't really have a ton of texts that kind of leave us no other avenue to get to Jesus other than his sword. [laughs]
Seth: Yes.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And so here, we have a really clear example of God as a warrior-
David: Mm
Seth: ... against his enemies.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And in this context, it was like literal flesh and blood enemies.
David: You're right.
Seth: Like, armies. [laughs]
David: The only, the only, the only like blended enemy is the Anakim.
Seth: Right.
David: Other than that-
Seth: That's exactly right
David: ... it's like people.
Seth: And so we have pretty clear categories, though, for enemies in the New Testament.
David: Mm.
Seth: Paul says it, "Our enemies are not flesh and blood-
David: Right
Seth: ... but against every principality and power that sets himself up against, um-
David: God and-
Seth: ... God"
David: ... I can't remember. Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: Against, against God and-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... yeah, God enough
David: ... and his gospel, yeah.
Seth: Um, so when we think about God as a warrior now or Jesus in particular as a warrior-
David: Mm
Seth: ... we should think of him as a warrior against the principalities and powers, not necessarily Pilate or the Roman Empire, but the powers that animate those powers.
David: Yes.
Seth: The demonic, like the demonic ideas that influence child sacrifice.
David: The, the fallen angels behind the Nephilim.
Seth: That's exactly-
David: Yes
Seth: ... that's exactly, that's exactly right.
David: Right.
Seth: 'Cause it's like child sacrifice, cult prostitution, doesn't come out of nowhere.
David: Right.
Seth: That's not... And I would probably want to even say it's like, it's not even a human invention.
David: Who wants to kill their own children?
Seth: Like, there is a demonic, Satanic conspiracy-
David: Yes
Seth: ... against God's creation-
David: Right
Seth: ... that's infusing itself into civilizations-
David: Yes
Seth: ... to destroy itself.
David: Yeah. If you want, if you don't believe that, read Genesis 3 again. It's like, and everything was perfect in paradise, and then the snake came along and said, "Mm, did God really say that?" And he's like trying to make Adam and Eve cannibalistic-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... to eat their own paradise to their own peril. Like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... what?
Seth: The, the enemies of God hate not just God, but yes, God-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... but the very idea of life.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And so anything we experience that runs counter to life is from, not from God. [laughs]
David: [laughs]
Seth: It's from, it's like, it's from the enemy.
David: Yes.
Seth: It's from Satan. It's from a principality and a power-
David: Right
Seth: ... behind the powers.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um, and Jesus says battle against those.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Um, I think I sent a wh- you a whole list of-
David: Mm
Seth: ... like different ways in which, um, we, like the, the New Testament talks about spiritual forces. I know like, um, a, a spiritual force prevents Paul and Silas from going to Thessalonica.
David: Mm.
Seth: Like they were physically prevented, uh, like physically, spiritually prevented from going to Thessalonica by a spiritually dark enemy. I know that Peter talks about sin stalking and hunting us like a lion.
David: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I pulled up what you sent me. It's like a, you have the power of Satan, which is mentioned in Acts 26:18, and we're told that he has fiery darts, uh, that-
Seth: By Paul
David: ... uh, by Paul
Seth: In, in Ephesians 6-
David: Yep
Seth: ... the fiery darts of the evil one.
David: That he has s- he schemes to lie, um, uh, to us. It, hi- and they, uh, uh, oh, it says, uh, his schemes lie behind failure by Christians to forgive each other and be reconciled, 2 Corinthians.
Seth: Mm.
David: Where he's like working through discord and-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... what's that feeling you feel that's like, "I don't wanna forgive them"? Who's fanning that into flame?
Seth: The enemy.
David: Your enemy. [laughs]
Seth: The enemy.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That's so interesting. I don't normally think of my interpersonal problems as animated by Satan-
David: Right
Seth: ... or like fueled by Satan or fanned into flame by Satan.
David: Which can be over-exaggerated.
Seth: Yep.
David: Right?
Seth: Totally. Totally.
David: It's our, also our heart's desires that lead to that, James tells us.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: But Satan is acting. It's in the same way it'd be like, "Well, the Holy Spirit didn't make me be generous today, so I guess I'm just gonna be stingy." It's like, no, you have to do something too.
Seth: Yeah, yeah. It's like-
David: But there-
Seth: ... part of the-
David: But like-
Seth: ... part of the equation.
David: Yes. But Satan is there doing things. It, it, it says here in, uh, referencing 2 Corinthians 4:4 that he, that Satan is also, um, an expert at disinformation, blinding the minds of unbelievers-
Seth: Mm
David: ... so they can't see the gospel's light. We're, we're literally told that Satan puts a veil up over the gospel so that whenever you're talking to your friends about God, and they're like, "I just don't get it"-
Seth: Like-
David: ... the reason they don't get it is because Satan is blinding their eyes.
Seth: Mm.
David: Like there are, we just don't think about this-
Seth: We just-
David: ... that we have enemies, that we're in a-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... fight.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Um, I know I don't think about that often enough.
Seth: One of the things that we've been doing in the office behind the scenes is just praying through the Psalms.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And like what we've been surprised by consistently is how often David talks about enemies. I mean, he's a king-
David: Yes
Seth: ... leading, uh, a kingdom, and he-
David: And he's in war
Seth: ... and he's in war all the time.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So it's natural for him. But so as we've been trying to pray through all those enemies, it's been kind of, actually been really helpful for me to start naming things I don't normally name as enemies. Like-
David: Yeah
Seth: I know- I don't really think of like, oh, depression is like a mental health problem.
David: Right.
Seth: Or-
David: Which it is
Seth: ... it is and it is an enemy.
David: Yes.
Seth: It, like, threatens the peace and shalom God wants for my heart-
David: Right
Seth: ... and for my mind.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like anxiety is an enemy. Yes, it's a mental health issue, and there's cognitive things, and there's brain chemistry things.
David: Yep.
Seth: But it is also an enemy and part of God's, a part of the cursed world that prevents us from experiencing the God of life and peace.
David: That's right. There's an enemy behind dictators, right?
Seth: Yes.
David: As well, like political powers. There's an enemy behind police brutality.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: You know?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Like, what would make someone do that? Like [laughs]
Seth: Yes.
David: You know, it's like, and that- that's not saying, like, every cop, you know.
Seth: Right.
David: I'm just saying like-
Seth: No, of course not. [laughs]
David: But like, there's an enemy behind when bad things happen, [laughs] like-
Seth: Yes
David: ... and we just don't, uh-
Seth: And I think we-
David: I think we either ti- we tend to over-spiritualize or under-spiritualize it.
Seth: Yeah. I think... I grew up in a tradition where, like, there's a demon behind every bush.
David: Right.
Seth: Every headache, demon headache.
David: Yes.
Seth: Headache demon.
David: Headache demon.
Seth: Like, there is the d- [laughs] Like-
David: Cast it out.
Seth: Cast it, ca-
David: And it's like, "No, I slept weird last night."
Seth: Yeah.
David: [laughs]
Seth: That's part of it. But there's also another side of Christianity that says, "No, no, no, everything has... Like i- it's sin. It's your fault-
David: Right
Seth: ... somebody else's fault, or our culture's fault." And like, well, that's part of it, and I think, I think the most helpful... I d- I don't know if I've talked about this in the podcast.
David: Mm.
Seth: But whenever I went to India-
David: Oh, yeah
Seth: ... uh, we did this, like, um, we f- we got connected with some believers in this unreached people group up in Kashmir.
David: Right.
Seth: And so we were doing this discipleship training thing, and as we were, like, preaching to them, like, this one girl is, like, become... Is able to pray, and it's like she's severely demonically oppressed.
David: Right.
Seth: And she's doing all this crazy stuff. She's throwing people against the wall. She's banging her head on the ground. It's, like, crazy. But as we also talk to her and are praying for her, we also learn, like, she's been ritualistically abused by the Buddhist monks back home, who would hang her upside down for days on end until her episodes would end. So like, okay, she's not just demonized, she's psychologically traumatized.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Or they would just let her walk off into the wilderness. We also come to find out that she's been sexually abused multiple times in her life. So what's happening? Is it, is that Satan's fault? Yeah. Is it cognitive issues or psychological problems? Yeah.
David: Is it man's fault?
Seth: Is it man's fault? Yes.
David: Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: And like the, we normally wanna reduce it down to only the world or only spirituality.
David: That's right.
Seth: But, like, what does... Scripture said, hey, the world, the flesh, and the devil.
David: And the devil.
Seth: And all those three are conspiring against the Kingdom of God.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: We have enemies-
David: Yes, we do
Seth: ... is the shorthand of this.
David: That's right.
Seth: And Jesus is a warrior against them.
David: Yes. Yes, Jesus is a warrior. He's often described, even, as a warrior. Um, you quoted this verse before we started.
Seth: Matt- uh, Matthew 10. He says, "I do not come to bring peace-
David: But a sword
Seth: ... but a sword, and to set father against son-
David: Son
Seth: ... and mother-
David: Mother
Seth: ... against daughter
David: ... against daughter.
Seth: And father-in-law against daughter-in-law.
David: Yeah. It's crazy.
Seth: But-
David: We don't often think about God, or Jesus, I mean-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... bringing a sword.
Seth: But I, and as I was thinking about then as the cross-
David: Right
Seth: ... as a battle strategy-
David: Hmm
Seth: ... I was like, so you have, like, God has a battle strategy.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And it's the cross. And I was kinda thinking, but like, why does that make sense? Uh, like, 'cause I think we normally think of, of God's non-violence.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Jesus's non-violence.
David: Yes.
Seth: He didn't hold a sword on the cross but had swords impaled to his side.
David: Right. He turned the other cheek.
Seth: He turned the other cheek. He didn't flog other people. But then, uh, then I sort of th- thought about it like a game of chess.
David: Hmm.
Seth: Like, you can beat your opponent by sacrificing your queen.
David: Right.
Seth: There is a battle strategy that includes strategic loss.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And God, as a master warrior, as a master chess player, is willing to allow his most powerful piece fall, himself fall.
David: His- himself, yeah.
Seth: So that the enemy is defeated.
David: Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
Seth: And, um-
David: Yeah. What a way to conquer.
Seth: Yeah. [laughs]
David: Yeah. I also think it's important to look at Jesus's life as gospel conquering as well.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: You know, because he goes out and conquers disease, right, and f- and, like, a- abusive teaching and spiritual enemies.
Seth: Yep. That's right.
David: He casts out demons. He-
Seth: Heals sick people
David: ... heals sick people. He raises the dead. He rebukes, uh, op- oppressive, uh, traditions and, like, relig- and religiosity.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, and he's conquering territory and casting out-
Seth: Yeah, like all the-
David: ... enemies
Seth: ... enemies that we still see today, like, like, religious hypocrisy.
David: Yep.
Seth: Jesus goes and conquers it.
David: Right.
Seth: The, like-
David: He literally was just like, "You hypocrites-
Seth: You hypocrites
David: ... woe to you."
Seth: Whitewashed tombs.
David: Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: Like, you brood of vipers.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Chronic illness.
David: Yep.
Seth: Jesus goes and conquers it.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Um, whatever extent demonization and psychological trauma overlap, Jesus goes and conquers it.
David: Yes.
Seth: Death itself.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Jesus conquers it. Like, there is no, like... Or even, like, the, um, religious critique of, like, sexual sinners or political sinners.
David: Right.
Seth: So you have people like Matthew-
David: Yep
Seth: ... who's a tax collector-
David: Tax collector
Seth: ... sold himself out to the liberal elite of the Romans-
David: Right, yep
Seth: ... or whatever it is. And then you have prostitutes and sinners, and what does Jesus do? He comes in, and he conquers the religious hypo- hypocritical-
David: Shame
Seth: ... shame that they've heaped upon them.
David: Right.
Seth: He conquers it.
David: He frees them. He liberates them from that.
Seth: Yes.
David: Yeah, totally. So it's just, like, really interesting to think about that, um, and I think we, I think we can tend to, like, like we tend to go, like, well, is it all man or all spiritual that we're warring against? I think we can do the same thing with Jesus. You know, we can be like, "Is it all cross or all life? Is it everything-"
Seth: Oh
David: ... "that he did in his death or everything that he did in his life?" And I'm like, it's both.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: You know, like, through his death and resurrection, you know, he conquered. It was his, it was his strategic chess play-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... to conquer his enemy, and now he comes to us and gives us the same commission he gave Joshua. "Don't be afraid."
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: "Go out and conquer." So, like, yeah, we actually can go out and conquer illness.And demonization and oppressive social structures and hypocrisy. And we actually should be walking around knowing that we're in war zones-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... and that we've been called to wage war, not belligerently, angrily, um, narrow-mindedly or anything like that.
Seth: But unafraid.
David: But unafraid, with conviction, but we're doing it, like, out of love, which is how we said that we-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... are supposed to reflect on God's actions here. We love people into freedom, you know? And like, we do that by-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... praying for them that their diseases would be healed, you know? [laughs] Like-
Seth: Right
David: ... we do that. Like we-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... we pray against evil spirits. Like, j- which are just things that sound weird to modern ears.
Seth: They s- I mean, they sound... Yeah. Even for somebody who studies the Bible now for a living-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and as a pastor [laughs] pretty much for a living too, it's like, it still sounds weird-
David: Yes
Seth: ... to primarily look through the lens. Like to, to take off that, like that separation between like the secular world and the spiritual world.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And to be like, "No, no, no." Like, you can't simplistically separate them that way.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: The spiritual world and the physical world are the same. Like, they're inseparable, and the fact that you can't see one doesn't mean it's not influencing you, which is why Paul is bringing up, like, disputes in the sec- in the Corinthian church are fanned and inflamed by Satan. Like, you can't, like, just-
David: Right
Seth: ... unceremoniously rip them apart. Like, that's not the way the world works.
David: They're too intricately intertwined.
Seth: This is not how the way God has designed humans. Like, it's not like we have a soul side of us and a body side of us that if you took the spirit side out of us, we'd be fine.
David: Right.
Seth: Or if you took our consciousness out, we'd continue to exist.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, that's not the way we work.
David: Right.
Seth: And Go- anyway. That's-
David: And it's not the way we go to war.
Seth: It's not the way we go to war.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That's exactly... That's, that's the thread I was like-
David: Yeah. [laughs]
Seth: ... I lost. I just got lost in my own thoughts.
David: [laughs] That's right. Um, and I think there's something else to, to, like, to tie a bow on, too, with the, um, uh, the, the idea about the land being at rest.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: That there's two things at least I wanna talk about with that, uh, for the here and now, where it's like, uh, there is sin... When we think about sin and the enemy, uh, we can think of it, um, in terms of either actions, right?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: That sin is an action.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And we, we do commit sins, but sin from a biblical, like, standpoint is a force.
Seth: Yeah.
David: It's a power.
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: The, it's-
Seth: Capital S Sin.
David: Capital S Sin is a power that dominates your heart and makes everything you do wrong. Even when you think it's right and good and moral, it actually has the wrong motivations or the wrong implications or wasn't fully true or fully good.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And so sin has conquered our hearts and needs to be vanquished.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And when Jesus conquers sin in your life-
Seth: Oh
David: ... and the Holy Spirit comes and dwells in your land, in, in the land of your body, the land has rest. But-
Seth: Yeah, like we ourselves, our heart-
David: Yes
Seth: ... our mind, our bo- our s- spirit-
David: Has rest
Seth: ... has rest.
David: Yes. Jesus is bringing shalom to your bodies.
Seth: He, like, He, He, as a warrior, He conquers our heart-
David: Yes
Seth: ... and brings rest.
David: That's right. And, uh, and so, like, that's really good to name.
Seth: And then you should m- ma- then let's talk about physical land.
David: Uh-huh.
Seth: Because, like, we're not just... We won't be spiritual creatures forever.
David: No.
Seth: Like, we won't, like, exist on a harp in heaven is what I'm trying to say.
David: No, that's right.
Seth: We, this land that we live on, whether in China or America, will be redeemed and restored when God makes his new-
David: Yes
Seth: ... heavens and new Earth.
David: Right. So Joshua 11 and 12 is going to happen again.
Seth: Yeah.
David: I- in a very different way, it's going to happen again, and Jesus is described in Revelation as a warrior-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... coming to Earth-
Seth: Right
David: ... with robes dipped in blood, holding a sword, right? [laughs]
Seth: Yeah.
David: And he is going to redeem the Earth. Like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and, like, He's gonna do it out of love, and it's gonna be a good thing-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... because there will no longer be child sacrifice.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: Like, there will no longer be depression. There will no longer be demonization. There will no longer be police brutality. There will no longer be division. Like, He will slay everything that-
Seth: All sin.
David: All sin. All, all lowercase and capital S sin, He will slay.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And there will be peace in all the land, and the entire land will have rest on every side.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And God will finally have a place to dwell with man.
Seth: Right.
David: And that's, that's what we hear at the end of this story-
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah
David: ... called the Bible, which is, "Behold, my dwelling is now with man."
Seth: Yeah.
David: "I've got a, I've got a place of peace to be with my people." And, like, that's the good news of, of-
Seth: The warrior Jesus
David: ... of the warrior Jesus-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... is that He comes, He is co- He has come to win a decisive victory over sin and the devil, and He will come again to, to gain a final victory over all evil in the world, and He will have a place of rest to live with us forever.
Seth: Amen. [upbeat music]
Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a nonprofit that gives all its resources, like this podcast, away for free because of supporters like you. To help Spoken Gospel in our mission to speak the gospel out of every corner of Scripture and view all our free resources, visit spokengospel.com. [upbeat music]
