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Genesis 12-21: Abraham

About This Episode

Abraham is chosen by God to be the father of a nation that will bless the world. How does this family lineage lead us to Jesus? In this episode, David and Seth examine the relationship between God and Abraham, and that even amidst the brokenness, God makes good on his promises, through the fulfillment of Jesus nailed to the cross.

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How God's Promises Outlast Human Failure in Genesis 12–21

Show Notes

David and Seth, hosts of the Spoken Gospel podcast, walk through one of the most pivotal stretches of Scripture in the entire Bible: the story of Abraham in Genesis 12–21. Spanning nearly 30 years of narrative time, these chapters trace how God's plan moves from the hope of a single promised seed all the way to the promise of a blessed nation, and how trust in God's word — not moral performance — is what holds the whole story together.

From a Despair Heap to an All-Nations Promise

Genesis 1–11 tells the story of an unrelenting downward spiral. Creation gives way to the fall, rebellion multiplies, and by the time the Tower of Babel scatters humanity, brokenness and self-aggrandizement have spread to every corner of the earth. Every nation is under the curse. But at the very bottom of this despair, God does something new. He calls Abram and makes him a promise: "I will make you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed" (Genesis 12:1–3).

This is an innovation in what God is doing, but it is also a restoration of his original intent. The creation mandate was for image-bearers to fill the earth with God's glory. Now God is bringing that vision back through Abraham, not just through one promised seed but through a seed who would be a blessing to all nations. Where the curse went out to every family through Babel, the blessing would now go out to every family through Abraham. The promise is also deeply personal. God speaks to Abraham in the second person — "I will bless you" — but he is really talking about an entire nation that will come from Abraham's line. This is the Bible's first explicit picture of representative headship: one man standing in for a whole people, just as Adam's rebellion brought death to all who came after him.

Abraham's Faith and the Long Wait for a Son

The entire narrative arc from Genesis 12 to 21 hinges on one question: will Abraham have a son? God has promised descendants as numerous as the stars, but Abraham is 75 years old and his wife Sarah is barren. The fulfillment will not come for nearly three decades. This is why the New Testament consistently commends Abraham for his faith. He is not a morally flawless character — far from it — but he trusts God at his word. And Genesis 15:6 tells us that God "counted it to him as righteousness." That means the basis for receiving God's blessing was not moral aptitude or personal ingenuity. It was trust.

What makes Abraham's faith so remarkable is that he has almost nothing to look back on. Later figures in the Bible could point to the parting of the Red Sea or the conquest of Canaan as evidence of God's faithfulness. Abraham has none of that. He simply takes God at his word, which is something no potential "new Adam" before him had managed to do. Adam and Eve did not trust God's word about the tree. Cain did not trust God's word about the right sacrifice. But Abraham believes. This is what Paul picks up in Galatians when he argues that we are saved by faith in Jesus the same way Abraham was counted righteous — not by what we do, but by trusting in the promise God has made and fulfilled in his Son.

Foreshadows of Exodus, Conquest, and a Mysterious Priest

Before the promise is fulfilled, Abraham's journey through the ancient Near East becomes a miniature preview of Israel's entire national story. When Abram goes down to Egypt, lies about Sarah's identity, and sees plagues fall on Pharaoh's house until God delivers Sarah and sends them away loaded with Egyptian treasure, it is a foreshadowing of the Exodus in almost every detail. God is showing his faithfulness in small things — rescuing one family from one king — as a guarantee that he will later be faithful in much larger things when he rescues an entire nation from Egypt.

After Lot separates from Abraham and chooses the land near Sodom and Gomorrah, he is captured by a coalition of kings. Abraham mounts a military campaign and rescues him, foreshadowing the conquest under Joshua, where a small band of God's people would drive out nations greater than themselves. On his way home from this victory, Abraham meets Melchizedek, the King of Salem, whose name means "Prince of Righteousness" and whose city means "peace." Melchizedek is a priest of God Most High, yet he has no recorded lineage and no recorded death — which is striking in a book obsessed with genealogies and obituaries. He blesses Abraham, and Abraham gives him a tenth of all his spoils.

Hebrews 7 picks up on this encounter to argue that Jesus is a priest in the order of Melchizedek, greater than the entire Levitical priesthood. The logic is that Levi, the ancestor of all Israelite priests, was still "in the loins" of Abraham when Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek. If Levi himself honored a higher priest, then the priesthood Levi founded was always pointing beyond itself to a greater one. And because Melchizedek appears in the narrative without beginning or end, he serves as a picture of an eternal priest — one whose mediation between God and humanity never expires. Every other priest eventually dies, and the access to God they provide dies with them. But Jesus, like Melchizedek, lives forever. He is both God and our priest, which means the relationship he offers is permanent and unmediated by any human system.

A Covenant Signed in Blood — By God Alone

In Genesis 15, God renews his promise and turns a verbal agreement into a signed contract. He tells Abraham to arrange an ancient covenant ceremony: several animals are cut in half and laid out to form an aisle. Normally, both covenant partners would walk through the divided bodies together, pledging that if either broke the agreement, they would be torn apart like the animals. But Abraham falls asleep. When he wakes, he sees a vision of God alone — like a smoking, flaming vessel — passing through the aisle of animals by himself.

The meaning is staggering. God is saying, "I will be the one who keeps the covenant. And if you break it, I will still bear the penalty." God is not merely promising to hold up his end of the deal; he is volunteering to absorb the consequences of Abraham's inevitable failure. This is the cross in miniature. On Calvary, Jesus does exactly what God foreshadowed in this ceremony: he keeps the covenant perfectly and bears the curse that belonged to those who broke it. Despite every act of rebellion and rejection throughout human history, God maintains a steady plumb line of grace — not because he has to or even because he should, but because he made gracious promises that he would.

Hagar, Ishmael, and the God Who Sees the Outcast

After this extraordinary covenant ceremony, Abraham and Sarah experience a lapse of faith. Sarah, worn down by decades of barrenness and the shame it carries, tells Abraham to sleep with her Egyptian slave Hagar so that the promise might be fulfilled through her. Abraham agrees, and Ishmael is born. The text signals that this is not something to imitate. The language used for how they treat Hagar — the word "take" — is the same word used for Eve taking the fruit and for acts of sexual violence elsewhere in Scripture. This is an act of human grasping, not divine provision.

When Sarah grows jealous and drives Hagar and Ishmael into the desert, God meets Hagar in her desperation. He promises to preserve Ishmael and even repeats the creation mandate — "be fruitful and multiply" — over him. Hagar responds by calling God "the God who sees me." Even though Ishmael is not the chosen line through whom the singular promised seed will come, he is still Abraham's child, and God's covenant kindness extends to him. This is an early foretaste of the "all nations" dimension of God's promise to Abraham. It does not matter what has been done to you or where you come from. God sees the outcast, the abused, and the product of human sin, and he still extends blessing. Jesus embodies this same posture when he sees the woman caught in adultery — set up, exploited, discarded — and instead of condemning her, he protects her and sends her forward in freedom.

Circumcision, Sodom, and the Faithfulness of God to the End

When God confirms his covenant a third time, he gives Abraham a sign: circumcision. Because God's promise from Genesis 3:15 onward has always been about offspring and reproduction, the sign is placed on the reproductive organ — a physical marker that says, "God has claimed this for his plan." Every circumcised male in Abraham's line would carry a reminder that they were still waiting for the promised seed. But by the time of the New Testament, circumcision had been misunderstood as the basis of belonging to God's family rather than a sign pointing forward to God's promise. Paul argues in Galatians that if you believe cutting off part of your body is what makes you righteous, you are really saying you can save yourself — and you should be consistent and try to keep the entire law perfectly. The sign was never the point. Trust in the promise was always the point. And once Jesus arrived as the fulfillment of everything circumcision anticipated, the sign gave way to the reality.

Meanwhile, the contrast between Abraham and Lot reaches its darkest climax. When angelic visitors come to Abraham, he recognizes them as Yahweh, bows, and worships. When similar visitors arrive at Lot's door in Sodom, he calls them "lords" — a title of social distinction, not divine recognition. Lot's spiritual blindness spreads to the entire city, which descends into violence and attempted sexual assault against the visitors. God destroys Sodom and Gomorrah with fire — localized judgment, not a flood, keeping his promise to Noah — and Lot's story ends with incest in a cave, a grim illustration that sin always curves back on itself. Abraham's story, by contrast, ends with the fulfillment of the promise. Even after Abraham repeats his cowardly lie about Sarah with King Abimelech — forming a literary bookend with the Egypt episode — God actively intervenes to protect Sarah and preserve the chosen line. Isaac, whose name means "laughter," is finally born. The parents who laughed in disbelief at God's promise now laugh with joy as they hold the son God always said would come. From beginning to end, the story of Abraham demonstrates that God is faithful to his promises regardless of human failure, and that he will be faithful to us — through Jesus, the true seed of Abraham — until the very end and beyond.

Transcript

Intro: [gentle music] Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. This is our attempt to speak the gospel out of every corner of scripture. We believe every part of the Bible, Old Testament and New, is about Jesus, and this podcast is our experiment to publicly test that belief. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]

David: Okay. Well, welcome to-

Seth: Welcome

David: ... the Spoken Gospel podcast. We're-

Seth: It is indeed what we are.

David: That, that's... I mean, we aren't that. That is what this thing is-

Seth: Mm

David: ... that we-

Seth: Contribute to

David: ... contribute to. [laughs]

Seth: It exists outside of us.

David: It does. [laughs] It's its own beast. Um-

Seth: So today we're in Genesis 12-

David: We are

Seth: ... all the way to 21.

David: Seth, why are we making such a big leap? [laughs]

Seth: Because this is the story of Abraham.

David: Right.

Seth: So the way that you should be thinking about Genesis is you have your origin story-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... the creation of the world, you have the fall and the inevitable descent down into chaos.

David: Right.

Seth: And then you have three character studies that kind of give you the rest of the book.

David: Right.

Seth: And, and-

David: Yeah. And f- four.

Seth: Four

David: Four

Seth: ... four. Sorry.

David: Right.

Seth: Yeah. So you have Abraham-

David: Yep

Seth: ... Isaac-

David: Yep

Seth: ... Jacob-

David: And Joseph

Seth: ... and Joseph.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So if you're reading the book of, uh, Genesis-

David: Genesis

Seth: ... it would be great to do it in six days.

David: Oh, okay. And, uh, on the seventh day he rest. [laughs]

Seth: And then seventh day he rest. [laughs]

David: You set yourself up for that.

Seth: I did, I did.

David: I really liked that.

Seth: I did.

David: That, that's called a self alley-oop, where you-

Seth: Oh

David: ... throw the ball off the backboard-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and then dunk it yourself.

Seth: And I did it.

David: It's the most selfish play in basketball. [laughs]

Seth: You're welcome.

David: Yes. So we are, we're gonna try to fly over, um, each of these four characters because, um, there's so many amazing and strange stories in Genesis, and we, we thought it'd be most helpful to not get lost in the weeds-

Seth: Yep

David: ... um, but to give you a overview of each of these characters and what God is doing through them, because-

Seth: And how each of those characters-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... do and do not point to Jesus.

David: Yeah. [laughs]

Seth: How they're examples of Jesus, and also-

David: Why we still need Jesus

Seth: ... why we still need Jesus.

David: And because let's, let's go back. Let's... I think the one thing we need to make sure we, we review as we start talking about, um, chosen descendants and birth and sons, is we need to go back and remember that the, the, after the fall and after sin entered the world and death started to own the world and everything was broken, God promised that one seed would come out of Eve's line. A particular, um, descendant would rise out of Eve's children, and that descendant would crush death forever and would bring people back into the garden with God.

Seth: Yes.

David: And so we've been waiting for that one son over and over and over again. And-

Seth: And then to this point, that's all we've been waiting for. We've been waiting for a son.

David: Yep.

Seth: A son, a family member, a patriarch-

David: Yep

Seth: ... something.

David: Yep. And-

Seth: And for the first time, it escalates in Genesis 12. This is actually, like, the, the center of the book of Exi-

David: Oh, Genesis

Seth: ... of Genesis.

David: Yeah, definitely.

Seth: It's like it switches from hoping for a son for the, to the promise of a nation.

David: Oh, right. Yeah.

Seth: And so we actually get, like, this development in the plan of God. So Genesis 1 to 11 is the down- like, the constant downward spiral into chaos and sin.

David: Right.

Seth: And at the bottom of that just despair heap, God says, "I will raise up a nation."

David: Yeah.

Seth: So it's an, it's an innovation in what God is doing-

David: Right

Seth: ... through human-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... humanity.

David: It, it, it's an innovation, but it's also, um, a restoration of God's original intent for-

Seth: Yes

David: ... us as image-bearers to cover the earth with His glory. Like, the creation mandate was to take care of the soil, to grow it, to fill the earth, and mult- multiply and fill the earth, and so He's bringing that back, and He's saying that, like, the point wasn't just one son, but to have one son that would be a blessing to all nations.

Seth: That's right. It's-

David: Uh, and we also see that as an antidote to the bottom of the, what'd you call it? The, the, the-

Seth: [laughs]

David: ... despair pile or-

Seth: Despair heap. [laughs]

David: The despair heap. [laughs] I like that. Uh, at the bottom of that, what we just finished reading with the Tower of Babel was there's, the disease just went out to all nations.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Like, sin just went-

Seth: Right, right, right, right

David: ... brokenness just went out into all nations because there were these people that were trying to be God, set up their own empire. God confused their language and sent them out, and so now what's covering the whole earth is brokenness and sin and self-aggrandizement. It's the fall is covering the whole earth. And so now enter Abraham in Genesis 12 and the covenant God's gonna make with him, the promise he's gonna make with him, and there we're gonna find that there's an antidote-

Seth: Yes

David: ... which is this all nation promise.

Seth: And it's, I think it he- it's helpful for, one of the other major themes that you'll see throughout the Bible is this idea of representative, like a representative-

David: Oh, yeah. Right

Seth: ... acting on behalf of or in place of an entire nation or body of people.

David: Right.

Seth: And so we really, we get that in Adam in the sense, like-

David: Yep

Seth: ... in Adam, all die. But really in the narrative, this is the first time we see it, like, explicitly mentioned.

David: Yeah. I mean, 'cause you do-

Seth: Like

David: ... see that, like, God made man in His image, right?

Seth: Yes.

David: And the whole idea was as they are fruitful and multiply, that headship will continue, that people will be continued to be made in the image of God. But what we see in, I think it's Genesis 5, is Adam has a child, I think it's Seth, and it says that, and he, he bore m- he bore Seth in his own image.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And so h- this representative headship of Adam in the fallen world is he is progenating. Is that a word? [laughs]

Seth: Progenating.

David: I don't know. He's expanding-

Seth: I like it

David: ... his, his own image. He's this head of-

Seth: Sowing his wild oats.

David: Yes, sowing his wild oats like Dwight Schrute.

Seth: [laughs]

David: And, uh, yeah. And so I think we get a hint of it there, but this-

Seth: Right

David: ... is really explicit-

Seth: Right

David: ... as, as you mentioned.

Seth: Here's what it says. "Now the Lord said to Abram: 'I will make you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those that bless you, uh, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.'" So it's a big deal.

David: Big deal.

Seth: It's a big, it's a reverse of the curse in a nation-Coming from Abraham's line.

David: Mm. Oh, because the-

Seth: All the nations of the earth will be blessed

David: ... because right now all the nations of the earth are cursed, is that what you're saying?

Seth: That's right, yeah.

David: Okay. Yeah, I get that.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Okay. And so the idea of head shift then that you're talking about is he's saying you a lot. He's like-

Seth: Right

David: ... you know, I, I, I choose you, and I'll bless you, and whoever curses you I'll curse, whoever blesses you I'll bless. But really he's talking about a whole nation that will come from Abraham.

Seth: That's right.

David: All his children.

Seth: That's right. Which is why his name changes from Abram to Abraham-

David: Later

Seth: ... at some point in the story.

David: Yep. Mm-hmm.

Seth: And so really the whole narrative arc of Abraham is from this promise to the fulfillment of this promise. From you all the nations of the earth will be blessed, and that requires Abraham to have a child.

David: Right.

Seth: At least [laughs] at least one.

David: You would think many.

Seth: You would think many, so but subversively-

David: Yes

Seth: ... it's only one.

David: Yes.

Seth: And all the way in Genesis chapter 21, uh, Abra- Abram's wife S- Sarah-

David: Sarah, yep

Seth: ... has the baby.

David: Yep, right.

Seth: And the line continues.

David: Right, and this covers these, th- these few chapters from 12 to 21 cover almost 30 years of time.

Seth: Yeah.

David: So-

Seth: God promises it 30 years later

David: ... 30 years of waiting for this promise to come through.

Seth: Which is one of the reasons, one of the most important things we ne- we need to understand about Abraham is that he's consistently in the New Testament commended for his faith.

David: Faith, yeah.

Seth: Like he has real faith in the Lord's promises. He waits 30 years based on the Lord's previous-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... goodness and, uh, trustworthiness to him.

David: Yeah.

Seth: He waits on him. He's not a perfect character.

David: Nope.

Seth: Not a moral, not always the most moral character, but he does have faith.

David: Yep.

Seth: And that's what's counted to him as righteousness.

David: Yep.

Seth: Which essentially means that God said that's what it takes to be the recipient of my blessing-

David: Yes

Seth: ... is faith.

David: Right.

Seth: Not your moral aptitude.

David: Nope.

Seth: Not your in- your ingenuity, and he's gonna try to like grab the promises of God for himself-

David: Yep

Seth: ... a couple different ways. He's gonna try to protect the promises of God for himself-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... a couple different ways. But that's not what, that's not what secures the promise of God.

David: Right.

Seth: It's just his faith.

David: Yep.

Seth: Which is-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... how we're saved in Jesus as well.

David: Yeah, [laughs] exactly.

Seth: Paul picks up in Galatians, why are we saved by Jesus? By faith. Because Abraham was, believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness.

David: So now we believe and throw our trust on Jesus, and it's counted as... Which I, I love this idea using, like using Abraham as a way to teach us more about what the word faith means, because faith is one of those Christianese terms that's really ambiguous it seems.

Seth: Yeah.

David: But here we see, okay, what would it mean if God came to you, Seth, and was like y- you're... 'Cause we haven't even said this, that his wife is barren.

Seth: Right.

David: And very, they're both, they're both old, advanced in years.

Seth: 75.

David: Yeah, 75. [laughs]

Seth: [laughs]

David: And he's, he says, "Okay, you guys haven't been able to have children for s- the, the 55 years of your marriage or whatever, um, but, uh, you're gonna have a child."

Seth: How old is Sarah in this, by the way?

David: I mean, she gives birth at 90.

Seth: So she's gotta be 60.

David: 60s.

Seth: Okay.

David: Yeah, like yeah, late 50s or early 60s something like that.

Seth: Well, 'cause in the next story it's like they go to Egypt, and she's considered very beautiful by all the princes of Egypt, so I was like i, I was wondering like [laughs] what, like was like Abraham like marrying like some girl in his early 30s-

David: That's really funny

Seth: ... while he was 75?

David: No.

Seth: I didn't, it-

David: I, I think they're 10 years apart.

Seth: 10 years apart.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Okay, okay.

David: And so, um, that's really funny though.

Seth: [laughs]

David: Yeah. Uh, but she must've been really beautiful if by-

Seth: 60

David: ... 60 she was still getting it.

Seth: Like Helen Mirren kind of.

David: Yeah, Helen Mirren.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Yeah, definitely. And so but, but this idea of faith, you'll, you'll have a child, and it takes 30 years, you know? And it's like what, what is it, what does it mean to have faith in this promise? It's to just, uh, it just adds something, another element of, of that word to me where it's like I just trust that that's gonna be true. Like, [laughs] you know? Like-

Seth: Right, right, right

David: ... and it's like that's what it means.

Seth: Based on what God has already done in choosing me.

David: Right.

Seth: Based on what God's already done-

David: Calling me

Seth: ... to like preserve a line up to me.

David: Right.

Seth: And really at this point that's all Abraham has.

David: Yep.

Seth: We don't have the parting of the Red Sea.

David: Nope.

Seth: We don't have like some crazy act of God besides creation itself.

David: Right.

Seth: So he's, it is kind of a remarkable that Abram has faith in a God that we don't know how he's proven himself faithful yet.

David: Right.

Seth: Right? 'Cause normally when you read David or r- you read any of the other, any other Bible character, what do they do? They go back-

David: To the Exodus story

Seth: ... to the Exodus story-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and say, "This is how great God was in the past. This is how good he'll be in the future."

David: Yes.

Seth: And really all Abram does is trust God at his word.

David: Mm.

Seth: And at this point in the story that's actually profound because what does ev- what does other, every other potential new Adam do?

David: Oh, they just fail at God's word. [laughs]

Seth: They don't trust God at his word.

David: Right. [laughs]

Seth: Don't eat this tree.

David: Yep.

Seth: Uh, [laughs] you know, like-

David: Right. Render the right sacrifice.

Seth: Do the right sacrifice.

David: That's right. Uh, fill the earth and subdue it, and, you know, don't, you know, commit some horrible sexual sin. No on from the children.

Seth: Yeah, nobody take God at his word until Abraham.

David: Right. Yeah.

Seth: So it, it's, it's really profound.

David: It is.

Seth: Like it g- and it comes back to the question, will you trust God at his word?

David: Right.

Seth: Even when it doesn't make sense, and even when sometimes you don't have basis for it.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: For us as Christians, we always can look back to the cross and say-

David: Right

Seth: ... Jesus died and rose from the dead for me.

David: Yep.

Seth: For my sins.

David: Our new Exodus story.

Seth: Our new Exodus story. We always look back, but Abraham didn't have that luxury.

David: Right.

Seth: Which is profound.

David: It really is. It really is. But I just love that image of what it means for us to have faith in Jesus. It's do we trust that he's gonna do what he said he's, said he's gonna do?

Seth: Right.

David: That he's gonna come back and claim a people for himself, that he's gonna be a just judge that doesn't judge us based on our right or wrong actions, but on his mercy and his sacrifice. And it's like, yeah, I trust that. Okay, now will you live 90 years trusting that? You know, like that's, that's what faith is. It's just, it's like just trusting. I, I love that word in, as a placeholder for faith, is just-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... trust.

Seth: Trust.

David: So anyway, uh, faith is-

Seth: And-

David: ... faith is a big deal for Abraham, so I think it's good to double down.

Seth: And it, and it will continue to be a big deal throughout the narrative.

David: Yes.

Seth: So it's good to establish it now.

David: Yes. So the first thing that happens is they're promised this thing, and Abraham goes on a journey to go into his promised land.Okay, so A- Abram-

Seth: Abram at this point

David: ... not Abraham right now.

Seth: We're gonna try to keep that distinction. [laughs]

David: It's not gonna, it's not gonna work.

Seth: [laughs]

David: Uh, he sets off to go to this land that God has said that he's gonna bring him to. Now, we haven't talked about the land. It's a very important part of this.

Seth: Right.

David: That he's going to ... Uh, he tells him in the, in the first promise in 12:1, "The Lord said to Abram, 'Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house,'" which is every identifi- identifiable factor that a person from this time can have. It's like, "Go from where you live, from your extended family, and from your dad," which is like-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... for a familial culture-

Seth: Right

David: ... that's leaving everything behind, "and go to the land that I will show you." Now, he doesn't say like, "Go to Oklahoma City, Oklahoma."

Seth: Right.

David: He said, "Go to some place out there that I'll tell you about later."

Seth: Just start walking.

David: Just start walking. [laughs]

Seth: [laughs]

David: Yeah. And so that's what Abram does. And like, uh, and he doesn't even tell him why, like what's gonna happen when he gets there or anything like that. Like, we know that it's a, like, it was God's plan. It's, it's Eden. Like, if you're-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... thinking, if you're reading this straight through and you get to, "Oh, what's this mysterious land?" It's Eden. Like-

Seth: It's the new Eden, right

David: ... what, what, I mean, what are we, what are we trying to get back to this whole time? It's God's trying to bring him back to Eden. And so he starts walking, and where does he end up? [laughs]

Seth: He ends up in Egypt.

David: Yeah. [laughs]

Seth: He ends up in Egypt. And what's, what you should know about this, we're not gonna spend a ton of time on it-

David: No

Seth: ... but this little, this little story actually foreshadows the entire Book of Exodus.

David: Right.

Seth: Israel, the progenitor of Israel-

David: Right

Seth: ... go-

David: Israel is in his loins.

Seth: In his loins, [laughs] which is what Paul says-

David: Yes, that's fine

Seth: ... so I'm fine with it. And he goes into Egypt. Abraham has one of his character flaw moments-

David: Yep

Seth: ... where he lies about the identity of his wife, says it's his sister, and allows his wife to be taken into the harem of the King of Egypt. But as soon as he's taken to the, she's taken to the harem, all these plagues start coming-

David: Yep

Seth: ... against Egypt. The king has to bow before the God of Abraham-

David: Yep

Seth: ... gives Sarah, Sarai back, and then they plunder the Egyptians, taking with them all his treasures-

David: Yep

Seth: ... [laughs] which is the storyline-

David: The whole storyline of the Exodus

Seth: ... of the Book of Exodus-

David: [laughs]

Seth: ... happens right here.

David: Right.

Seth: I don't know why the author has chosen to foreshadow it.

David: Mm.

Seth: I don't know quite the function of this story besides foreshadowing.

David: Right.

Seth: But maybe ... W- what would you say?

David: Oh, man, I don't know. Uh, I, I, I think it has to probably do something with the fact that God is showing that he can, he's faithful in the small things, that there's this one-on-one interaction that Abram is having with this king, and God is going to be faithful to rescue his people, which are right now all in Sarah's womb-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... from this king and give, give Abraham and bless him with all the spoils that he needs, kind of in spite of him, you know? And so I think the, this oral tradition of this story would've been passed down.

Seth: When, when you say that, what we have to remember is-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... the people reading this, people reading the Book of Genesis have actually already survived the Exodus.

David: Right. Right, right.

Seth: They've already been through Egypt.

David: Yep.

Seth: They may be in the desert wandering-

David: Yep

Seth: ... or about to enter the promised land. So they actually have a, a history of being through this. So if you're a first-century Israelite coming to read this text, you would've actually known that this is a foreshadow because you've already lived through it, or your parents did, or your-

David: Yeah. Right, right, right

Seth: ... your grandparents did.

David: But I think also if you, let's say you didn't have this text yet is what I'm saying-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... and you just had this story that Abraham lived through that he told his son and his son and his son and his son. I mean, these people knew who the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were. Like, that's just a term that gets thrown around, uh, in Exodus. And so I think this oral tradition would've shown, like, man, how do we know that God will actually rescue us from Egypt whenever we're enslaved? Like-

Seth: Mm

David: ... like, what, what promise did Moses have that God would actually be able to rescue a people from Egypt? It's like, oh, well, he-

Seth: Right

David: ... rescued Abraham from Egypt and all of our ancestors through Sarah's, Sarah's womb.

Seth: Right.

David: So it's like he's been faithful in small things. He'll, he'll be faithful in big things may be part of it.

Seth: Even before we were in exile for 400 years, he was already rescuing us from Egypt.

David: Right.

Seth: So that's good.

David: So, like, maybe part of it.

Seth: I think, too, maybe it's, like, God protecting the family line-

David: Mm

Seth: ... the chosen ra- the chosen line, the seed of the s- the, the, of the, of Eve.

David: Right. Oh, by not letting-

Seth: Another king sleep with her.

David: Right. Oh, and if you think about this, maybe he's also letting them go into the courts of a king to show that's not how my line's gonna be developed. Like-

Seth: Mm

David: ... if anyone should impregnate Sarah, shouldn't it be a king? Like, if there was gonna be-

Seth: Oh, right

David: ... some kingly line-

Seth: Right

David: ... shouldn't it be the King of Egypt? Like, who's Abraham? Like, like-

Seth: Yeah, yeah

David: ... who's this loser? And God's like, "No, no, no, I'm gonna rip her out of there. I don't want her to bear a king's son. I want her to bear my chosen one's son." Like, that's pretty interesting to think about.

Seth: That is interesting.

David: Yeah, so from humbleness.

Seth: From humbleness.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Protection.

David: Yep.

Seth: God preserves. God's in charge.

David: Showing his faithfulness.

Seth: And again, like-

David: Yep

Seth: ... who's gonna bring the promise? God's gonna bring the promise.

David: Right.

Seth: He's bringing curses or plagues.

David: Yep.

Seth: He's protecting. He's bringing them out and then gives them favor. All, they take with them the treasures-

David: Right

Seth: ... of Egypt.

David: Right.

Seth: And then we quickly move on to-

David: Yes

Seth: ... another story about, uh, Lot and Abram separating-

David: Right

Seth: ... and going their own ways. Why is Lot-

David: And Lot, Lot is, Lot is Abram's nephew.

Seth: Yes.

David: Right? Yeah. He's Uncle Abe.

Seth: Uncle Abe.

David: Uncle Abe [laughs] and Nephew Lot, and, um, they get to, they, they end up having so much wealth after leaving Egypt that they can't even be in the same area together 'cause their sheep start eating each other's grass, and their shepherds are yelling at each other, and they're angry with each other. And so they're like, "Hey, why should we argue? We're family. Let's just split up, and there's so much land around us, let's just kind of spread out."

Seth: Right.

David: And, uh, and, a- [laughs] and Abraham, uh, gives the, gives Lot the-

Seth: First choice

David: ... the first choice, and he's like, "Which one will you choose?" And Lot ends up choosing what he thinks is the better play 'cause it's by, like, water and streams of life. It looks fertile, but he ends up choosing the land closer to sin, uh, because he, he chooses the land next to Sodom and Gomorrah. And Abram ends up moving closer toward where the promised land would be, away from sin, and it wasn't even his choice, which is just another picture of how God is providing for his chosen people. Uh, and I love that his name's Lot 'cause it's like the whole idea of cast- casting lots. It seems random.

Seth: It's like, it seems like a chance. Like, left or right?

David: Yep. Lot's right.

Seth: Right. Yeah.

David: The, the lots are always right.And so we're just, God is showing that he's gonna preserve his people and bring them to himself-

Seth: Right

David: ... even in spite of them. Again and again, that's what we're gonna see throughout Genesis.

Seth: And what happens is Lot goes into this land that he thinks is gonna be great, and he ends up getting captured-

David: Right

Seth: ... by some of the kings of this land.

David: Didn't go well.

Seth: And Abram has to go back in and rescue him-

David: Right

Seth: ... from all those kings.

David: Right.

Seth: And there's this big coalition of five different armies.

David: Yep.

Seth: Abraham goes in. So who knew that Abraham was, Abram-

David: Right

Seth: ... was a military leader at this point, which apparently he has enough of an army to go and fight this coalition-

David: Yep

Seth: ... chase them down through the Mediterranean and the Mesopotamian Crescent, and rescues Lot.

David: Right. Which is a, which is then, if, if the, if the previous story was a picture of the Exodus, this is a story of the conquest. Right?

Seth: Of it.

David: And so-

Seth: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah

David: ... so after they left Exodus-

Seth: It's a foreshadowing-

David: It's a foreshadowing

Seth: ... of what happens in the Book of Joshua.

David: That's right, is after they, after the Exodus, then there's like the wanderings, which they, you, we kind of see, um, Abraham walking through the desert and walking through the wilderness, visiting some of the same cities that Israel will visit in their wanderings. And then we have this conquest moment, where the one who delivered them out of Egypt is now the military leader who is going to use his small band of men to drive out nations and kings bigger than him. And again, it's the same thing. We're getting this foreshadowing to show that God was faithful in small things, so he'll be faithful again. Like, it, it just, it's just a foreshadowing of the Book of Exodus. Of the whole Torah and Joshua even. Yeah. Anyway.

Seth: And what happens at the end, after God provides victory in battle for Abram, he comes away with just tons of spoils of war.

David: Tons of spoils.

Seth: And as he's coming back-

David: Spoils on spoils on spoils [laughs]

Seth: ... spoils on spoils.

David: Spoiler alert. [laughs]

Seth: [laughs]

David: Anyway. Yes, he comes out with lots of spoils.

Seth: And as he's going, um, back home, he meets this man named Melchizedek-

David: Yes

Seth: ... King of Salem.

David: Just rolls off the tongue.

Seth: So, uh-

David: [laughs]

Seth: I like to call him Ol, Ol' Milky.

David: Ol' Milky?

Seth: Ol' Milky.

David: I like to call him Mel-

Seth: [laughs]

David: ... but that's fine.

Seth: And, uh, he brings out bread and wine, and he's the, all we're told about him is his name-

David: Yep

Seth: ... where he's from, and the fact that he's a priest of the God Most High.

David: Right.

Seth: So this should strike us as strange for a couple different reasons. Because one, there's no priesthood described in the Bible yet.

David: Nope.

Seth: So we don't have the Book of Leviticus yet. The people reading this would've known about the Book of Leviticus-

David: Right

Seth: ... and so they would've had ideas about what this probably means, but-

David: Right, and they would know that a priest for, of the God Most High must come from Aaron's line.

Seth: Right.

David: But Aaron hasn't even been born yet.

Seth: Right.

David: It's a long way in the future.

Seth: And so that's why his name and where he's from is so important.

David: Right.

Seth: So Melchizedek means Prince of Righteousness.

David: Just a s- dope name. [laughs]

Seth: [laughs] And then Salem means peace.

David: Right.

Seth: So he's the Prince of Righteousness from the town of peace.

David: Of peace. [laughs]

Seth: So, oh, interesting.

David: Very interesting.

Seth: He-

David: And, yep, and he-

Seth: He's-

David: Yeah, go ahead. No, you go.

Seth: No, no, no, no. [laughs]

David: No, no, you. No, first, no, you.

Seth: No, no, you. [laughs]

David: But yeah, and, and he's, and there's, he's, unlike everyone else in Genesis, he's not given a line. Like, who's his dad? How long, how long has he been alive? I don't know.

Seth: No, he just pops into the story.

David: And, yeah, and then he doesn't die. And so he's just like, he breaks all the rules.

Seth: Right. And so, yes.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And so why that's i- and not that he doesn't die. He probably does die.

David: Right, right, right. But we're not told that.

Seth: But this story doesn't record his family lineage, which the story has been obsessed about so far.

David: Obsessed.

Seth: And it doesn't record his death, which this, the story so far has also-

David: Has also been obsessed

Seth: ... been obsessed about. So he just kinda pops into the story like he's always been existing-

David: Yep

Seth: ... and then he always will exist, and then he just fades into the back.

David: Right. And what, and so what does he do then with, with Abram?

Seth: He blesses him.

David: Right.

Seth: "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, possessor of heaven and Earth, and blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand." He blesses him.

David: Yeah.

Seth: He says, "The God Most High is blessing what's just happened in your life and what's to come."

David: Yeah, and then Abram, uh, tithes to this priest, which is something that they do at the tabernacle-

Seth: Yes

David: ... and like that we learn about later in Leviticus, that like you bring some of what you have to the priest to help fund them.

Seth: Right.

David: And Abram takes a 10th of everything he just got from these spoils of war and gives it to Melchizedek.

Seth: This seemingly random priest.

David: Right.

Seth: Right.

David: And then I think that's the thing that Hebrews ends up picking up on in the New Testament about like how Abram like gave something to a priest. They, I can't remember what the point he's making there.

Seth: Yeah, Jesus is compared to Melchizedek.

David: Right.

Seth: [laughs]

David: Well, I knew that part. [laughs]

Seth: [laughs] Um, so, [laughs] um, Jesus is compared to Melchizedek.

David: Right.

Seth: And but the first thing we need to talk about is the fact that Melchizedek, um, is given this 10% tithe-

David: Right, yep

Seth: ... of everything that Abraham has.

David: Right.

Seth: And so Hebrews 7 picks up on this because remember, the Israelites know that the sacrificial system, all the priest things had already been set up.

David: Right.

Seth: We're past that point historically.

David: Yep.

Seth: But they're reading back into this text all those things, and what they're seeing is Abraham, the father of Levi, the high priest, the one who is in charge of all of the sacrifices-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... the original priest of priests, right?

David: Right.

Seth: He, and so this is what [laughs] Paul says, like Levi is actually in a sense still inside Abraham, in his loins, he says.

David: In his loins is what he says, yeah. [laughs]

Seth: And so he says when Abraham gives this 10th to this Melchizedek, it's in a sense Levi, the priest-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... of priests, is also giving a 10th of his spoils to this pre- this, this, uh, Melchizedek as well.

David: So there's a higher priest even before the priesthood was established.

Seth: Right. Right, so like you only give an offering or a sacrifice to someone who is higher than you.

David: Oh, right.

Seth: And so if Levi, the priest of priests-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... is offering a sacrifice, offering a tithe to another priest, that priest must be greater than even Levi.

David: Right.

Seth: And so when Paul, or not, the author of Hebrews-

David: [laughs]

Seth: ... picks this up, we don't know if it was Paul or not.

David: Right.

Seth: But he, um, he says, "So then, if that's true-"

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... "and if this priest must be better than Levi-"It must be Jesus.

David: Right. He has no, he, he, he has no lineage, so it seems like he lives forever.

Seth: Right, so what-

David: He's this king of righteousness and peace.

Seth: Yep.

David: Right? It, he never dies i- in the story, so he's just like Jesus resurrected, eternally living, and he is the higher priest who has been from eternity past to eternity future, to whom all must pay homage, and who supersedes every sacrificial system.

Seth: Right.

David: And who ultimately is the one who even Abraham and his descendants, the people of Israel, who are the covenant people of God, end up paying homage to, which shows us, like, tha- that even this line that God is building for the people of Abraham will eventually go outside of a- Abraham's own family. It'll be a blessing to all nations-

Seth: Yes

David: ... because he's even paying homage to someone who's not in his line.

Seth: So for a modern listener-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... why is a priest necessary?

David: Oh.

Seth: So, like, we, we, we need to understand that in order to have a relationship with God-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... a priest was always needed-

David: Yes

Seth: ... to facilitate that relationship. If you wanted to come into God's presence, if you wanted to ask a favor of the Lord, if you wanted to make a prayer request, you need to have a priest there with you to help facilitate that relationship.

David: Right.

Seth: That, and in a lot of, in a lot of religions, it's transactional. You give God a certain sacrifice. He responds with giving you a prayer-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... commensurate to that sacrifice.

David: Yep.

Seth: But this priest, Melchizedek-

David: Mm

Seth: ... and then Jesus of, is a f- a totally different kind.

David: Right.

Seth: This priest doesn't seem to die.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: This priest seems to live forever, and if that's the case, then the relationship that that type of priest can offer you-

David: Mm

Seth: ... is an eternal one.

David: Wow.

Seth: Because all other priests die.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Your relationship with God dies with that priest.

David: Right.

Seth: Your relationship can only go so far as the priest goes.

David: Right.

Seth: But if your priest lives forever-

David: Mm

Seth: ... your relationship with that god can also live with that priest.

David: Right.

Seth: Which is the hope of the new high priest, King Jesus.

David: Right.

Seth: In his death is actually eternal priestly life-

David: Mm

Seth: ... for all believers. We can have a relationship with God unmediated by some man or some sacrifice. We can go straight to the throne of grace-

David: Right

Seth: ... always, forever.

David: 'Cause not only is our priest eternal, our priest is God himself.

Seth: Yes.

David: Yeah, which is amazing, and I didn't even think about this, but what is Abraham offering this priest, this God-like priest? He's offering him the very things God had just given him in the spoils of war, and so it, it, it's like he's not buying anything.

Seth: Right.

David: He's giving back to God what was already given to him, and so I just think that's an interesting grace factor.

Seth: A lot of us don't understand why we need priests.

David: Right.

Seth: But, like, think about the reason why you need a counselor.

David: Mm.

Seth: Like, a lot, I th- I think, like, people in the counseling profession will even admit thems- themselves as secular priests.

David: Mm.

Seth: Because a lot of times we feel at such dissonance with ourselves-

David: Oh, sure

Seth: ... we need to go to another to help us understand who we are in light of the truth.

David: Mm.

Seth: We understand who we are and how to be okay with ourselves, to handle our sense of guilt, handle a sense of shame, and we go to someone who is an expert in these matters-

David: Mm

Seth: ... to absolve us or absolve us of guilt or shame or, or-

David: Right

Seth: ... these feelings of inadequacy.

David: Mm.

Seth: And so the way that we treat counselors was the way that ancient people treated priests, and what we're told in Jesus is that we have a counselor-

David: Oh, right. Yep

Seth: ... a priest who is always there for us.

David: Mm.

Seth: Whose counsel is eternal, it's ultimately true, and who will always come near and who will always provide for us the things that we need. He never dies. He lives forever, and he's always with you. [instrumental music]

David: Okay, so, uh, we just finished talking about Melchizedek, and now we move on to... Because we have to remember, in all of this, Abraham's still waiting on this son.

Seth: Yes. [laughs]

David: Like, a lot has ha- been going on, and I mean-

Seth: He's waging wars.

David: Yeah

Seth: He's, he's splitting up lands. He's dividing all of his-

David: And this whole time-

Seth: ... property

David: ... he's like, "So God totally talked to me and told me we would have a son," and Sarah's still barren. So, like, you, you gotta be wondering what, what he's thinking, and God comes to him and makes, and renews the promise, which is really kind of God to give him another touchpoint and, and say, like-

Seth: Right, right, right

David: ... "I, I'm not, I haven't forgotten you." And what he does is he ends up, um, performing a ceremony for him to confirm this covenant to basically, like, i- if the last time was a verbal agreement in chapter 12, in, here in chapter 15, this is the signed contract.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Right? And so what he does is he basically has him set up an ancient ritual which people would often do whenever a promise was made, an agreement or a covenant was made between, w- between two people. They were to take, uh, uh, several different animals, cut them in half, and lay them out to form kind of an aisle-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... where you would pass through-

Seth: I think you would, like-

David: ... the divided bodies

Seth: ... and yeah, you, like, hold hands.

David: Hold hands.

Seth: Yep, and walk through.

David: That's right.

Seth: And the idea was, if either of us breaks the terms of the agreement, may our bodies-

David: Be split open

Seth: ... be split open like these animals.

David: Like these animals, right.

Seth: Right.

David: So that's, this is how serious the covenant is.

Seth: And look at the way, look at how it begins.

David: Oh, yeah.

Seth: So God begins by saying, "Go out and look at all the stars. Do you see how many the stars are? I promise your descendants will be that many," which is-

David: Big promise

Seth: ... a big promise, and Abraham's t- you know, 80 years old at this point.

David: With a barren wife.

Seth: With a barren wife, and he believes God and counts it, and God counts it as righteousness.

David: Right.

Seth: This goes back to what we said at the beginning.

David: Faith.

Seth: Faith, trust-

David: Yep

Seth: ... that God w- can be trusted at his word is what secures for him this covenant, this ra- this, like, signed contract-

David: Right

Seth: ... from the Lord that he will actually do it.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So then God sets up this big, elaborate thing-

David: [laughs]

Seth: ... in which he will sign a contract saying-

David: Right

Seth: ... "I will bring this to you."

David: And the crazy thing that happens here is normally both covenant partners would walk through this aisle of animals.

Seth: But Abraham falls asleep.

David: Abraham, a- and, like-

Seth: [laughs]

David: ... and yeah, Abraham, like, yeah, falls asleep 'cause he's waiting on God. He's like-

Seth: Right

David: ... "Do this and wait for me." Abraham falls asleep. He wakes up, and he sees, like, a vision, God alone, like a flaming pot or a smoking pot vessel going through the animals by himself, and what God is showing there is he's saying, "I will be the one who keeps the covenant."Even in spite of you

Seth: I, i- i- right, I'll keep it in spite of you, and whether you break the covenant-

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Or-

David: I will never break mine

Seth: ... I will never break mine.

David: Right.

Seth: But regardless of who breaks it, I will bear the penalty.

David: Oh, right.

Seth: Right, 'cause whoever breaks the covenant will be torn in two.

David: Oh, but now, but the, the one who break the, broke the covenant isn't in the s- in the isle of animals.

Seth: Right.

David: And so God is saying, "I will bear the punishment for the broken covenant, and thereby keep the covenant."

Seth: Yeah, even if you break the covenant, Abraham-

David: Wow. I'll bear the-

Seth: ... I'll be torn apart for it.

David: Wow. Which was what we see in Jesus. [laughs]

Seth: That's amazing.

David: Right? That's ama- yeah, that's what Jesus is doing on the cross. He's saying, like, "I am the covenant keeper and the one who's taking the punishment that, because you broke the covenant."

Seth: "I've been faithful since eternity. I've always been-"

David: Mm

Seth: ... "careful, pursuing my people, loving my people, desiring my people, wanting people to join me."

David: Yeah.

Seth: And what's the consistent story of Genesis and of humanity in general, is that we don't care.

David: Right.

Seth: We don't trust God and his Word. We think we're better suited to solve our own problems than the Lord is.

David: Yep.

Seth: And we reject him, and we reject him, and we reject him. And on the cross, Jesus does what he promised he would do, God did, God promised he would do for Abraham. He notices that we are the ones keeping and breaking the covenant. He says, "But I'll bear the curse."

David: Right.

Seth: "I'll be torn apart."

David: Despite everything evil we keep doing, God has this just steady plumb line of good intended for us.

Seth: Yes.

David: Which is why, uh, when, when we released the Genesis poem, uh, the through line, four times in it I say this through line, "Genesis demonstrates that God can take all the evil we create and make something good, and he does so not because he has to or even because he should, but because he made gracious promises that he would."

Seth: Yeah.

David: And it's like, that's it. It's like, no matter how much evil we do, God makes good on it.

Seth: Right.

David: Which is amazing. And so we turn again, and we see this continue to happen. Abra- Abraham just had this amazing experience with God, and then we turn the page. God's going to keep his promise. He's gonna keep his promise. He's gonna do it himself.

Seth: He's gonna do it at the cost of himself.

David: Right, right.

Seth: Right.

David: And then Abraham has this lapse of faith.

Seth: Sarah.

David: Sarah is getting frustrated. She's like, "When's this promise gonna be fulfilled? I'm getting, I'm getting frustra-..." I mean, imagine the woman's shame in this situation. Imagine Sarah's shame that she feels. Like, "Am I so broken that God comes and talks to us and to you, and-"

Seth: But I'm never-

David: "I'm never even, I c- God, not even God can fix me. Like, I'm that barren. I'm that broken."

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, I mean, I can't... I really sympathize with Sarah there.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Like, that's hard. And so she says, "Why don't you have sex with my slave girl, Hagar, and she can bear this promise for us? 'Cause clearly I'm not good enough to do it."

Seth: Right.

David: And so Abraham-

Seth: "God can't use me."

David: Right.

Seth: "Use-"

David: "God can't use me, so use someone else." So Abra- Abram acquiesces and, um, ends up bearing a child with Sarah's slave, Hagar.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And this child-

Seth: And-

David: ... is named Ishmael

Seth: ... and we should just note, this is not pr- this, we're not supposed to copy Abraham here.

David: Oh, no.

Seth: We're not supposed... Like, this is abusive-

David: Right

Seth: ... what they do to-

David: Oh, this is supposed to seem broken and wrong.

Seth: Right.

David: Right.

Seth: Like, they, they, they abduct this girl from Egypt.

David: Yep.

Seth: They, uh, force this lady to marry Abraham.

David: Right.

Seth: And even the words used here, it's the word take.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Like, it's used elsewhere in the Bible to when Eve takes the fruit.

David: Right.

Seth: It's, like, used, uh, when, I think when, um, Tamar is raped.

David: Oh, man.

Seth: Like-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... so, like, it's not-

David: Taking that which doesn't belong to you.

Seth: Right. It's not-

David: Right

Seth: ... healthy what's happening here.

David: No.

Seth: It's abusive.

David: Right.

Seth: It's-

David: Which is a good note to-

Seth: Right, yeah

David: ... for people to, who are reading the Bible to, to realize is just because something's in the Bible does not mean it's, it's not supposed to be copied. It's communicating something to us, but it doesn't mean that every single story in the Bible we're supposed to copy, and that is definitely the case here with Abram and Sarah and what they're doing.

Seth: And so, but what ends up happening is that she has a son-

David: Right

Seth: ... named Ishmael.

David: Yep.

Seth: And so automatically, and then she gets jealous. Sarah gets jealous.

David: Yep, of course.

Seth: Kicks Hagar and Ishmael out of the house, and as they're about to die in the desert, she cries to the Lord.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And the Lord promises to preserve Hagar.

David: Right.

Seth: Which is crazy, because he, Ishmael ends up becoming part of this, uh, wrong line.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: The line that's not the chosen line, but the Lord repeats the c- the, the creation mandate.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: "Be fruitful and multiply." But also the commi- the, uh, promise to bless the world through Ishmael.

David: Right.

Seth: So somehow God has a chosen line that will multiply and fulfill the earth and bless the earth, but the other line will do the same as well.

David: Right.

Seth: Which is, I don't-

David: It's still a child of Abraham

Seth: ... it's still a child of Abraham.

David: Right? And so this is still inside of God's covenant people, 'cause he's a child of Abraham, but he's, what he's saying is, he's saying, "But this is not the chosen singular line that will lead to the singular seed that will fulfill the promise I made in Genesis 3:15, that there will be one seed who will rise up and crush the head of death and sin. Like, that's not gonna be-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... you, Ishmael, or, or any of your children. But that doesn't mean you're forgotten. It doesn't mean you're cast out. I still will bless you because you're Abraham's child, and based off of his faith and my cho- my choice of him, I also choose you."

Seth: Yeah.

David: Right? "But Ishmael, you're not gonna be the one to fulfill the promise."

Seth: And this is said in such a way that Hagar's response is, "Lord, you see me."

David: Yeah, she feels seen.

Seth: "You are the God who sees."

David: Yeah, which is super, super cool.

Seth: Which is a beautiful way to describe the Lord. Like, even when we are literally the outcasts-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... when we are, when we are the product of sin-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... the Lord still sees us.

David: Yeah.

Seth: The Lord still sees us.

David: And imagine if you were an Israelite who had just left Egypt after being oppressed there for hundreds of years, reading this story, 'cause isn't she an Egyptian?

Seth: She's an Egyptian.

David: Yeah. And so God's, like, choosing her, seeing her, like, saying, "I'm gonna bless you," all this stuff, and it's like, "No, not her." Like, "We don't like the Egyptians." [laughs] But then later on, it's a constant theme. Um, I think it's even picked up in Deuteronomy that God promises that even Egypt will be blessed through you. And, like, and, like, and then there's prophets, uh, that, that say that eventually, "I will call Egypt my son."And in my chosen one. And that's what we see. This is a promise.

Seth: Right.

David: This is, this is an, a foretaste of the promise that God's made to Abraham that he'll be a blessing to all nations.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Even the outcasts, even those who have been God's enemy in the past, God will see them and bless them because of his c- covenant here with Abraham.

Seth: I keep thinking too, in this moment, about Jesus and the woman caught in adultery.

David: Mm.

Seth: So that whole story is told in such a way where it's clearly, like, the Pharisees are setting up this woman to be, like, they're setting this woman up. Where's the man in this situation? It's just the woman.

David: Right.

Seth: Like, clearly, like, this woman is at, like, being taken advantage of-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... to prove the Pharisees' point. And Jesus comes, and he's c- he sees her.

David: Right.

Seth: He says, "Who else here can... Whoever's not sinned, cast the first stone."

David: Right.

Seth: And then there's obviously s- we don't know, even know if the story is original.

David: Original, right.

Seth: But, I, I like one of, one of the things our pastor said, he's like, "It may not be, uh, original-"

David: Yeah

Seth: ... "but it might be true."

David: Right.

Seth: And it's definitely within the character of Jesus-

David: Yes, yeah [laughs]

Seth: ... to do something like this.

David: Well said.

Seth: He says, "Who in this, who here has sin? You cast the first stone."

David: Right.

Seth: And then he looks at her, sees her, and says, "Who is there to condemn you?"

David: Mm.

Seth: "Go and sin no more." So I, I don't know, I see, like, this sexually broken woman.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: This sexually abused woman.

David: Right.

Seth: And Jesus sees them, cares for them-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... doesn't accuse them, but encourages them to-

David: Yeah, it's cool.

Seth: Yeah.

David: 'Cause it's like it doesn't matter, in Abraham or Sarah's case, what sin you commit, it, and it doesn't matter, in Hagar and Ishmael's case, where you're from, right, and what's been done to you. God can see you and bless you through both, right? Nei- neither one is gonna exclude you from that promise. [gentle music] Okay, so let- let's recap what all we've seen in Abraham's [laughs] life so far, because we've been through a lot. I mean, we're surveying decades of material here. Um, and so God comes in and makes a promise.

Seth: Yes.

David: Makes a covenant in chapter 12, right? And then they set out to go to this land that he's promised him. Uh, he goes into Egypt, foretelling the Exodus story.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Uh, leaves with great riches, so much so that him and Lot have to separate. Lot ends up going towards Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham goes more towards the promised land, which is, like, God confirming which of the two seeds he's choosing. Um, yep.

Seth: God, uh, Abraham has this great victory in battle.

David: Oh, right.

Seth: He meets this high priest named Melchizedek.

David: Yep.

Seth: He offers him offerings. God redoubles his covenant with him, but even after God, like, redoubles his covenant, Abraham tries to take the covenant for himself-

David: Yes

Seth: ... through Hagar. But then even in Abraham's sin, God is still gracious to him.

David: Right.

Seth: So just like in the fall when A- Adam and Eve sin, God still gave them the blessing that there would be a son who would come after them. God redoubles-

David: Mm

Seth: ... the, the, the announcement of a blessing of a coming son to Abraham. And what's unique here is that this promise will last forever.

David: Oh, right.

Seth: So the descendants we already know about, uh, God's, the land we already know about, God's faithfulness we know about, but here we're told that God's faithfulness will last forever.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Um-

David: An everlasting covenant.

Seth: Yes.

David: Okay, so, um, and with this, now we have a sign that comes with this third redoubling [laughs] or something, right?

Seth: Yeah.

David: It's the third time the promise is, is confirmed.

Seth: Third time's-

David: Third time's-

Seth: ... the charm

David: ... the, the, the, the charm [laughs]

Seth: The charm [laughs]

David: We don't wanna say the charm. Is that-

Seth: The charm-

David: Is that hedonistic?

Seth: ... of, of the evil one.

David: Of the evil one. [laughs] It's pagan. Um, and so this time he gives him a sign, and that sign is the sign of circumcision.

Seth: Mm-hmm.

David: Which, um, everyone loves to talk about.

Seth: Everybody loves to talk about circumcision.

David: [laughs]

Seth: I, as a student pastor-

David: You love it

Seth: ... it is one of the most difficult-

David: Yes

Seth: ... and the quickest guarantee of, like, an, a, a, a rapt audience.

David: A rapt audience.

Seth: [laughs] They just, they're in.

David: They're in, 'cause it's like-

Seth: When you start-

David: ... you're talking about-

Seth: You start-

David: ... that thing

Seth: ... you're talking about penises.

David: There it is. [laughs]

Seth: It happens.

David: Right. You have to talk about it.

Seth: You have to talk about it.

David: Yeah. And so, um, why, why circumcision? Why is this promise that God is making him then confirmed with a sign that has to do with a man's penis?

Seth: I honestly don't know. [laughs]

David: [laughs]

Seth: I al- always think about it like, well, we don't know why. God just said do it.

David: Well-

Seth: [laughs]

David: Well, I think we do have some good reasons. [laughs]

Seth: [laughs]

David: Um, so what's, what's God's promise all about? Uh, from Genesis 3:15 all the way here to Abraham, it's about offspring. It's about reproduction. And so God is saying, "I have marked off your reproductive organs for a plan that I have." And so he's literally saying that, "I am coming in and putting a sign on your reproductive organ to show you that I will do what I say I'm going to do. I'm gonna mark it off." And so, like-

Seth: I b- I buy that.

David: You buy that? Yeah.

Seth: [laughs]

David: Well, I think most commentators do too, so it's probably, [laughs] probably a wise thing to do.

Seth: I just-

David: Go f- go-

Seth: I actually just haven't read that. [laughs]

David: [laughs]

Seth: I had no idea. That makes a lot of sense.

David: Yeah, yeah. And so I think that that's what God's doing here, and he, he, you know, he talks, still talks about him being a father of a multitude of nations and making him, in verse 6 of chapter 17, exceedingly fruitful. And so, I mean, he's talking about all this stuff that comes from his loins, and then he tells him to do something with his loins. And so [laughs] I think that's probably what God is doing here. And, um, and so he says, "You're gonna take your, uh, every eight-day-old newborn in his line is to undergo this sign of circumcision," um, so that all throughout their generations, right, no matter how many generations they go through, the, the children of Abraham will have a mark on them, and that mark is to say, "We're still waiting for the seed. We're still waiting for the promise. There's still-"

Seth: Mm

David: ... "one coming that will fulfill all of this reproduction."

Seth: Right.

David: Like, there is something about the reproduction of Jewish men under the line of Abraham and all the way back to Eve that is important to what God is doing in the world, and it's because there's one seed who is coming, and so this mark on their reproductive organs is to show that.

Seth: And what you just said is actually really profound because-

Seth: By the time we get to the New Testament, that is misunderstood.

David: Definitely.

Seth: Jewish people begin to believe that because they are circumcised, they are God's family line.

David: That's right.

Seth: And when it- it's actually the opposite is true. The reason God has promised them anything is because he's promised it to them out of his own ability and his own desire to see a line go through.

David: Yes.

Seth: And the mark of the covenant, circumcision, is just a sign and symbol that God's promises will come true in the future.

David: Yes.

Seth: So much so that when Galatians comes around-

David: Uh-huh

Seth: ... Paul uses the example of Hagar [laughs] and Sarah-

David: Yep

Seth: ... and then immediately goes into how you are not saved, you are not made righteous before God, you're not made acceptable before g- before God by being circumcised-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... but by trusting in the promise of God.

David: Right. Because, and like, the covenant of circumcision's over because the one that the sign pointed to is here.

Seth: That's exactly right.

David: It's done. You don't need to keep doing it, you're... He's here.

Seth: He's here.

David: You just believe in him.

Seth: And what Paul says, if you continue to believe that cutting off part of your penis-

David: Yep

Seth: ... is what makes you righteous-

David: Yep

Seth: ... he'll s- [laughs] he'll just say, "What-"

David: Just go ahead

Seth: ... and take off the whole thing. [laughs]

David: Just chop it all off.

Seth: I would rather you emasculate yourself.

David: Right.

Seth: And for him, it's also a symbol of, like, if you think doing enough good works-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... will get you into heaven, then even if it's just one good work-

David: Right

Seth: ... you eating kosher-

David: Yep

Seth: ... observing the Sabbath, it's just circumcision, you're still obligated then. What you're really saying is not a medical... You're not making a statement about a medical procedure.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: You're making a theological statement.

David: Yes.

Seth: You're saying-

David: I at least have to do one thing

Seth: ... s- God can't do something.

David: Right.

Seth: And that one thing that God can do, I can do.

David: Yes.

Seth: And so what you're really saying is, "I can save myself-

David: Yep

Seth: ... by something that I do."

David: Right.

Seth: And Paul says, "If that's the case, then go ahead and c- be consistent."

David: You gotta go all in.

Seth: Cut it all off.

David: It's all or nothing.

Seth: Do the whole law.

David: Yep.

Seth: Be perfect.

David: That's right.

Seth: Would you rather be perfect, or would you rather trust the promise that God has said would come and has come in Jesus?

David: Yes. So it's really cool. So I like that. I, I like that a lot. Now, oh, I've got a question for you.

Seth: Okay.

David: A head-scratcher.

Seth: Oh.

David: I wanna get your opinion on this-

Seth: A head-scratcher-

David: ... if you have one

Seth: ... if you will.

David: Uh, what do you think about the link between circumcision and baptism?

Seth: Oh.

David: Have you thought about that?

Seth: Yes.

David: Okay, what's your opinion on that? 'Cause people have said that, like, uh, a lot of people think that baptism is the new circumcision. It's like 30 is the new 15 or something.

Seth: [laughs]

David: Black is the new... Orange is the new black.

Seth: Orange is the new black.

David: Yes. So what do, what do you think about that?

Seth: Um, what circumcision did was it was a sign that God had promised something-

David: Yep

Seth: ... to the nation of Israel.

David: Right.

Seth: And so baptism is a sign that God has promised you eternal life-

David: Yes

Seth: ... in his Son.

David: Right.

Seth: You trust in the promises of God. You trust in the promise, that all the promises of God are yes and amen in Jesus Christ, and you confirm that trust in the promise through this outward act of either sim, uh, either circumcision or baptism.

David: Yeah. I think-

Seth: That's what I think

David: ... I think so, too. I think that's pretty fair. So but what, so but then w- we've said this whole thing about, like, adding on one thing to your salvation that you're trusting in ends up ruining it all [laughs] basically.

Seth: Right.

David: Uh, I mean, baptism kinda has that ability, a- and we've seen it, uh, throughout church history, that it's been a very divisive issue that people have argued over. We see it in Acts, people argued over circumcision, and now people argue about bap- I just think it's interesting that it's also, it's not only the, the sign and sign, promise, promise kind of coming-

Seth: Right

David: ... to a fulfillment in terms of them, uh, replicating each other. You also have the battles being fought over-

Seth: Right

David: ... circumcision and baptism.

Seth: In the same way that circumcision and un- un- uncircumcision throughout biblical history, and even, like, the warfare-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... like, the warfare of the ancient Near East, like, that was a cause of conflict.

David: Right.

Seth: Baptism a- historically has been a cause of conflict within the Protestant tradition-

David: Right

Seth: ... since the Reformation onwards, and, like, literally, people have died-

David: Yeah, definitely

Seth: ... over the issue of baptism. Because it is a profound symbol of what the covenant is and what it is not.

David: Right.

Seth: And so if you get that wrong, if you begin to believe that salvation comes by our own works, something that people b- start believing blood needs to be shed over it.

David: Right.

Seth: Like, it's an important thing, although I don't think that was the right response. [laughs]

David: No, definitely not.

Seth: That's what, that's what is, that's what ended up happening.

David: Yeah. Anyway, just, like, a sober, little, sad observation [laughs] to make about it, but, oh, we'll move on. Um, and so then after, uh, God gives the covenant of circumcision, he promises that Isaac will sh- like, "You're gonna have a son," and is this the first time we get his name?

Seth: Abraham?

David: No, uh, no, his son's name. Is this the first time that he's told his, "You should call your son Isaac"?

Seth: Yes, I think so.

David: Okay, so we get a, we get a name now.

Seth: Isaac.

David: Now I, now I know what to call my unconceived son.

Seth: Yes, Isaac.

David: Isaac.

Seth: And also Sarai changes her name to Sarah-

David: Right

Seth: ... which means princess.

David: Aw.

Seth: Because she's gonna bear, bear kings.

David: Yep.

Seth: Like, she's gonna be k- bear kings.

David: That's right. And so, um, th- this all happens, and, um, during this time that God's talking to Moses, or soon after there, um, these three men, right, come to-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... Abraham's house.

Seth: So God confirms the promise.

David: Right.

Seth: Says your, changes Abraham and Sarah's name, and gives the name Isaac to the son, which means laughter.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And then right after that-

David: Because, because they were laughing at the absurdity of the promise

Seth: ... it's like, "I'm so old. There's no way I'm gonna get-"

David: There's no way. Okay, we'll name your son that.

Seth: We'll name your son that. And it's, it's kind of beautiful irony.

David: Yes.

Seth: They laugh at the fact that God could e- ever do that.

David: Yep.

Seth: And then they laugh, enjoy-

David: Enjoy when they receive him

Seth: ... as they, as they receive the son.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Um, but after all this, three men show up on the doorstep, literally at the entrance of the, the tent.

David: Yeah, Abraham's tent.

Seth: Of Abraham's tent, and, uh, Abraham runs out, says, "Oh my, oh my goodness, you're... We have guests."

David: Yeah.

Seth: And he starts building this whole thing for th- like, a meal for them.

David: Right.

Seth: And at one point, he bows down and calls the guests, "My Lord, the Lord."

David: Yeah, Yahweh.

Seth: Yahweh.

David: Yeah.

Seth: The name of God. And then these angels, or the, the Lord, then tells him and confirms a promise that Sarah will bear a son.

David: Right.

Seth: Sarah starts laughing again-

David: Yep

Seth: ... just like we were told her name Isaac, uh, that name Isaac, and Abraham, um, blesses them with a meal before they move on.

David: Right.

Seth: Weird.

David: Yeah, pretty weird story. There's these three guys, and at least one of whom is called Yahweh. So we already are getting this picture that God-... is able to like, or not able may be the wrong word. Of course, he's able to do anything. But God sometimes shows up in physical form of some, of some sort.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And, like, has a meal.

Seth: Hmm.

David: It's really strange. Um, uh, yeah, a lot of people don't know what to do with that. I don't often know what to do with that other than, like, is it just as obvious as saying something [laughs] like, "See, God and flesh, they, they go together sometimes?"

Seth: Well-

David: Is this just, like, to get us ready for the incarnation of Jesus? Or why is this story here?

Seth: Well, here, I think it's supposed to start showing you the differences between Abraham and Lot.

David: Hmm.

Seth: So we have this, we have this k- we have this line, these two c- contrasting lines.

David: Yes.

Seth: And what ends up happening is three men come to, to Abraham's house, to, to the entrance of his-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... tent. He prepares a meal. He does all these things, and he bows down on the ground and says, "My Lord Yahweh"-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... and worships Him. The same thing happens in front of Lot with two men this time.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And-

David: And he- and Lot's in a different place over in-

Seth: Lot

David: ... Sodom and Gomorrah.

Seth: He is. And they come to his tent. Uh, they come to the entrance of the city. He makes the same meal.

David: Huh.

Seth: He announces himself to them, and he says, "Oh, my lords."

David: Oh.

Seth: And doesn't... The, the two stories are exactly the similar, except for that one detail.

David: Huh.

Seth: Lot calls them lords, like kings, princes-

David: Ruler

Seth: ... rulers.

David: Uh, just a-

Seth: But-

David: ... just a title of distinction.

Seth: Right, but Abraham calls him God.

David: A divine title.

Seth: So the difference between Abraham and Lot is that God has chosen Abraham-

David: Hmm

Seth: ... and he's not chosen Lot, and that's confirmed if you look in chapter 17.

David: Hmm.

Seth: And this is really interesting. In j- in 18:17, God starts talking to Himself.

David: Oh, right. Yes.

Seth: And you never see this anywhere else [laughs] in the story, and he says, "The Lord said"-

David: Yahweh said.

Seth: "Yahweh said, 'Shall I hide from Abraham what I'm about to do?-

David: Hmm

Seth: ... seeing that Abraham surely shall b- become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? For I have chosen him-

David: Hmm

Seth: ... that he may command his children and his household.'" And Lot, we're s- we're shown, is not chosen.

David: Right.

Seth: He's actually under threat of judgment from God. So Abraham prays and said, "God, don't destroy Lot's city."

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And then there's this whole scene where God [laughs] God-

David: They bargain

Seth: ... and Abraham bargain with each other.

David: Yeah.

Seth: How many righteous people need to be in the city before-

David: 50, 40, 30, 10.

Seth: 10.

David: Take it or 10.

Seth: 10.

David: If there's 10 good people in the city, I won't destroy it, God says. Which, like, you know God's sitting there going like, "I, I know there's, like, none or maybe one."

Seth: Right, and then the question you're left with, why, why stop at 10?

David: Right.

Seth: And what you're really asking is, what if there's less than 10?

David: Yeah.

Seth: What will God do? What if it is Lot, one of the, one of the few righteous?

David: Yeah, that's k- kind of the question.

Seth: So is Lot the one righteous person? And what ends up happening is you find out that Lot isn't the righteous person.

David: No.

Seth: He is from the false line.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: Abraham is the chosen line, and he's going to set up the k- the kingdom of the Lord. And Lot is from the seed of the serpent, and the city that he's a part of is just-

David: It's horrible

Seth: ... it's, it's so horrible.

David: It's so dark. Because the, these men come, like they came to Abraham, and they come, and they're in Lot's home in Sodom and Gomorrah. And, um-

Seth: The people that-

David: The people-

Seth: The people that Lot should have called Lord.

David: Oh, yes.

Seth: [laughs] It's, it's just like-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... he's supposed to call this person Lord and give-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... them dignity of God, but instead-

David: He, I don't know, undignifies them or [laughs] something like that by, um... Because he has them in their home, and the town hears that there are these, like, semi-gods or something-

Seth: Yeah

David: ... in, in his home. And they, they come and want to have sex with them.

Seth: Yeah.

David: It's, it's taking us back to the Nephilim. Like, they were like-

Seth: Yes

David: ... "We've heard stories-

Seth: Right

David: ... that our father's father's father's fathers were able to somehow have sexual intercourse with these gods and create these mighty men. We want to do that, too." And, uh, now Lot fights them off, though, right?

Seth: Uh-

David: Kinda? [laughs]

Seth: He offers his virgin daughters-

David: Hmm. Noble move

Seth: ... as bait. [laughs] Like, they, he said, like-

David: It's a sleazeball kinda move

Seth: ... it's like, "Don't, don't have sex with these angel men-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... or these rulers."

David: Right.

Seth: We don't know what Lot's understanding of these men is.

David: True.

Seth: He said, "Have sex with..." And he offers his two daughters as-

David: Right

Seth: ... their victims instead.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And instead of doing that, the angels, these messengers of the Lord, they cause everyone to go blind.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So nobody gets raped. And we're told the last scene is, "And they groped until the morning trying to find the door."

David: Goodness.

Seth: It's this just, this dark picture of how depraved-

David: Hmm

Seth: ... the city of Cain has become.

David: Oh, yeah.

Seth: How depraved the seed of the serpent will, will-

David: Right

Seth: ... will go.

David: And it's interesting, too, that you made this note that Abraham could see these angel men for what they really were, so he calls them Yahweh. Ca- or, sorry, uh, Lot was kind of blinded from seeing who they truly were, right? And only gave them a distinguished title, lowercase lord.

Seth: Right.

David: Um, a- and what happens is Lot's blindness gets passed on to those around him.

Seth: Hmm.

David: The whole city becomes blind. All these people become blind, and it's not... Like, it's, like, kind of like where Abraham will take a blessing to those around him, right? We're told over and over again.

Seth: Right.

David: Lot just extends the curse and blindness-

Seth: Hmm

David: ... all around him.

Seth: I didn't think about that.

David: Yeah. I don't know if that's something that the biblical author was trying to do, but it seems like it.

Seth: I think, I think it does end up coming back round because after this scene when they escape the city of Sodom and Gomorrah-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... by God's mercy-

David: Right

Seth: ... and we're told in answer to Abraham's prayer-

David: Yes

Seth: ... uh, Lot and his daughters are hiding in a cave, and, um, his, their father, the daughters decide, "You know, there's nobody around here to get us pregnant. We can't have a, a family line anymore."

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: "So what we'll do is we'll get our father drunk, and we'll sleep with him so that we can have children." And so what happens is that what L- Lot wanted the crowds to do-

David: Oh, he ends up having to do himself

Seth: ... to his daughter, he ends up doing himself.

David: Ugh.

Seth: So he wanted to give up his virgin daughters to the crowd. He ends up giving himself to his virgin daughters-

David: Wow

Seth: ... in incest.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So it's just this dark look that no matter... That sin always curves back around on itself.

David: Hmm.

Seth: And in some senses, it's its own punishment. You reap what you sow.

David: Right.

Seth: But in another sense, God will confirm it.

David: Yeah. I mean, look at the sulfur falling down on Sodom and Gomorrah.

Seth: And what's interesting here is that it's not water.Oh, it's-

David: Instead of a flood

Seth: ... it's not a flood.

David: Right.

Seth: It's fire.

David: Yep.

Seth: And so God's maintaining his promises.

David: Right.

Seth: He's keep-

David: And it's localized

Seth: ... it's localized, but at the same time, he's judging-

David: Yes

Seth: ... sin for how awful and terrible it actually is. [instrumental music]

David: Okay, so we're, we're nearing the end now of Abraham's story arc, and, um-

Seth: Yes

David: ... something's about to feel repetitive.

Seth: It is.

David: Right? Which in the Biblical word, world, we call these inclusios.

Seth: Inclusios.

David: Which is, is, is just like a fancy-

Seth: Expecto Patronus.

David: [laughs] Patronum.

Seth: Oh, Patronum.

David: Patronum.

Seth: Oh, no.

David: A Patronus is what you conjure by saying-

Seth: Right

David: ... Expecto Patronum. Come on.

Seth: So what do you conjure when you shout inclusio with your Bible wand? [laughs]

David: You, uh, you summon a nerd.

Seth: Mm.

David: Yes. No, uh, but basically, a good way to think about an inclusio is bookends, right? So that, you know, bookends usually, um, look the same.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And they usually are mirror images of one another, and they hold everything together.

Seth: Yeah.

David: Uh, and so y- at the beginning of Abraham's story, you have his call, and then he goes into, um, this, this-

Seth: Egypt

David: ... Egypt, this new kingdom, and-

Seth: Mm-hmm

David: ... lies about his wife, wh- who she is, and deceives the king.

Seth: He says she's her sister.

David: Right.

Seth: And then the, the king takes her, and apparently just into his harem, into his-

David: Yep

Seth: ... in- into his harem. And the same thing happens here.

David: Right.

Seth: They go into another kingdom-

David: Yep

Seth: ... ruled by this man named Abimelech.

David: Great name.

Seth: Uh, and he says, "This is my sister."

David: Yep.

Seth: And the king takes him into his harem. Everyone there becomes very ill-

David: Yes

Seth: ... so that nobody can have any more babies anymore, so.

David: A little plague.

Seth: A plague.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: So we don't know why, how long she was in captivity for.

David: Right, because how do you know if you're not being allowed to have babies, and, like, how long would that figure, take to figure out?

Seth: But-

David: Yeah

Seth: ... the point is the same thing happens here that happened at the beginning of the story.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: And the same thing's gonna happen again-

David: With Isaac

Seth: ... with Isaac.

David: Mm-hmm.

Seth: So we're gonna talk about it more there.

David: Yes.

Seth: But for now, it's, acts as a bookend. Same thing happens, and instead of the promise being given-

David: It's fulfilled finally

Seth: ... it's fulfilled.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Isaac is born.

David: Yay.

Seth: We see Lot's line, the, the seed of the serpent going downhill-

David: Mm

Seth: ... and circling the drain-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... in incest and sodomy and fire.

David: Yeah.

Seth: And then we see the line of Abel, the line of Adam-

David: Mm-hmm

Seth: ... fulfilled with promises.

David: Yeah. Even, even after the j- morally questionable actions of, of, uh, Abraham with King Abimelech. Uh, and it's like, it's very interesting. It's like Abraham's lying. He's, I don't know if he's being a coward, letting his wife go and do these things, and yet God protects Sarah and his line through cursing the people, right? And even keeping, I think this is the story where he actually keeps King Abimelech from sinning against Sarah.

Seth: Yes.

David: Like, God's hand is actively working against the king to not let him sleep with Sarah in order to preserve this line from Abraham so Isaac can be born. And so God is actively-

Seth: Mm

David: ... working in the midst of bad choices and evil, not because, uh, Abraham is just so great, but because he chose Abraham.

Seth: Yeah.

David: And he's the line that God has promised. And so what we see is that you, you, you, you, you take this part of the, of the story, and if you just did, like, an ellipses through the rest of the Old Testament, you would see again and again and again and again this story being repeated, that people sin. We do horrible things, and God is still unfathomably faithful. He continues to uphold his side of the bargain so that this line that's marked off by circumcision will finally come to a completion when Jesus is born from the line of Abraham. This is the promised seed who will finally come and crush the head of death forever. And, like, that's, that's what we're saying.

Seth: God is faithful to his promises to the end.

David: Yep.

Seth: And then therefore, he will be faithful to us until our end and then beyond.

David: Yeah.

Seth: Eternal life.

David: That is so good. So that's kind of the quick story arc of Abraham. Um, we're working right now on the, uh, Genesis introduction video-

Seth: Ooh

David: ... which is really exciting, so that's kinda why we're working through this stuff. And, um, we, uh, we hope you guys are enjoying our work through Genesis. We're getting, I think, almost halfway through.

Seth: And if you are enjoying our work-

David: If you are enjoying it

Seth: ... you should like us on the internets.

David: On the interwebs.

Seth: On the webs.

David: Yep.

Seth: Like us on the podcast apps.

David: Yep. Subscribe, leave a review on your Apple Podcast app or your, wherever you listen.

Seth: We're a new podcast, and that actually really helps-

David: It helps a ton

Seth: ... more people.

David: So give us a good review and, um, rate us. It helps a lot of people find us. Share it with your friends. Uh, that's always really helpful.

Seth: Your children.

David: Your children.

Seth: My daughter likes listening to our voices occasionally. [laughs]

David: Yeah. [laughs] That's, that's really good. Uh, and so yeah, we just, we really appreciate you guys. We love doing this, and, uh, we will be back next week with Isaac, the son of laughter. It'll be good.

Seth: Ha ha.

David: So we'll see you guys there. [upbeat music]

Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a nonprofit dedicated to creating free gospel-centered media that speaks the gospel out of every corner of scripture. So to join us in our mission and view our resources, we invite you to visit spokengospel.com. [upbeat music]

Related Resources

Free videos sent straight to your inbox.

How God's Promises Outlast Human Failure in Genesis 12–21

Show Notes

From a Despair Heap to an All-Nations Promise

Abraham's Faith and the Long Wait for a Son

Foreshadows of Exodus, Conquest, and a Mysterious Priest

A Covenant Signed in Blood — By God Alone

Hagar, Ishmael, and the God Who Sees the Outcast

Circumcision, Sodom, and the Faithfulness of God to the End

Related Resources

Introduction to Genesis

View our devotional on Genesis 1-2

Ready to study a different book?

Listen to the Genesis 1-2: Creation podcast

Listen to the Genesis 3-5: The Fall podcast

Listen to the Genesis 6-11: The Flood podcast

Listen to the Genesis 12-21: Abraham podcast

Listen to the Genesis 22-27: Isaac podcast

Listen to the Genesis 28-36: Jacob podcast

Listen to the Genesis 37-50: Joseph podcast