Intro: Welcome to the Spoken Gospel Podcast. Spoken Gospel is a nonprofit dedicated to the idea that every part of the Bible, Old Testament and New, is about Jesus. And this podcast is our experiment to publicly test that belief. Every episode, hosts David Bowden and Seth Stewart work through a Biblical text to see how it helps us see and savor Jesus. Let's jump in.
David: Well, welcome everyone to the Spoken Gospel podcast. We hope you're doing well. Seth is getting over the sniffles. How you feeling, man?
Seth: Sniffly. Sniffly. But hopefully I will make it through the podcast without sneezing and coughing. And I'm excited to talk about it.
David: I'm sure, I'm sure we will all forgive you for sniffles and coughs.
Seth: I appreciate that. Yeah. Um, one of my favorite things that's happened recently is that, uh, my neighbor kids, the neighborhood kids have started teaching my kids swear words.
David: Oh no.
Seth: Bad words. Have I told you about this yet?
David: Yeah, you texted me about it.
Seth: And so Sunny, our, our oldest comes home and she's like, yeah, I learned the F word. Oh my God. And the A word. Like we wanna just like make sure. So like, well, what is The A word, Sunny. And she, cuz you know, like kids, like, you know, like the F word could be fart. Like nobody, nobody knows. Like you just wanna make sure. She's like, well, the A word, I don't remember it, but it sounded like queso.
David: Queso.
Seth: And it took me a long time to figure out which word. Yeah.
David: That's what it could be.
Seth: Really funny. But it was pretty, it was probably my favorite part of like the other day. That's a good, that's a good little check-in.
David: I like that.
Seth: Yeah, life update, life update from Stuart House. Oh my goodness. Swear words in queso.
David: Yeah, swear words in queso. So yes, kids, queso kids. So yeah, we're in Deuteronomy 22 and we're going to go through 25. And I feel like this is the section of Deuteronomy. If you get to this point and then you read the subheading in your Bible, you know, various laws, various laws or miscellaneous laws, and you're like, crap, really? Like, I just made it through all of this stuff. I feel like I had some structure, I had some handholds, and then the bottom drops out and we're just going to talk about a bunch of random stuff for 4 chapters? Are you kidding me?
Seth: Like, you got laws about donkeys next to laws about cross-dressing next to laws about bird's nests next to laws about railings on your house. Yeah, it just doesn't seem to be so cohesive.
David: So to remind people, um, of kind of how Deuteronomy has been structured so far, after Moses's opening speech to the of Israel. Let's remember, they're on the bank of the Jordan, they're about to enter the Promised Land. Moses is giving this speech as God inspires him to give it, and he starts basically unpacking the Ten Commandments, um, kind of like taking the, the laws one at a time, like, you know, about the Sabbath day. And we get a whole bunch of laws about Sabbath rest and the, the sabbatical year. And then what we're doing is we just are finishing off the, the, uh, commands about thou shalt not murder And we've kind of seen those. And so what some people think, as he's gone through and is extrapolating these Ten Commandments, that 22:1-13 is still wrapping up the thou shalt not murder commands. So which we, which we just were doing about the laws about the manslayer. So, you know, it's just laws about life. So it's like, okay, yeah, and so in a pit might die. Yeah, a donkey in a pit might die. Exactly right. Don't, don't, don't kill a bird and its mom at the same time. It doesn't work perfectly with this section, right? So like, I feel like it breaks a little bit. And then they also say a parapet, like you could say that prevents deaths.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Well, that's what— yeah, that's what it's for. So they don't fall off.
Seth: Yeah, right.
David: Exactly.
Seth: And so not wear cloth of wool and linen.
David: Yeah, that one's kind of like, I don't know. And so then they say that after murder, then the command after that is thou shalt not commit adultery. And what do we get right after that in verse 13? Laws about sexual morality. And like, and so it's like, oh, it's kind of makes sense. But then the bottom drops out after that. And it turns into—
Seth: be what? After that, then it's, um, steal.
David: Yeah, then it's stealing, bearing false witness, and coveting. And so they take those together to say these are community laws. How do we treat one another? And it's like, don't steal from one another. Don't, don't lie to one another. And don't covet what each other has. It's how do we treat one another? How do we live inside of community with one another in terms of each other's possessions? In terms of whenever I want to take you to court, or in terms of like, how do I like feel about my neighbor and things like that. And so let's combine all of those and just talk about what does Israelite community look like. And so they're called community laws for the last 3 years.
Seth: Where? 23?
David: That starts in 23. Yeah.
Seth: So 23:15, it says just miscellaneous laws. Yeah, that's what like my heading in my Bible says.
David: Yeah. And so I, I, I, I, I'm inclined to want to believe that because of how clearly Moses has been working through the Ten Commandments, but I'm also fine with the bottom just dropping out and it just going crazy.
Seth: So another commentator I read said the first option is like, hey, Moses is expounding on the Ten Commandments and giving more examples of what thou shalt not murder actually means. It doesn't, doesn't just mean don't kill your neighbor. Yeah, it means preserve life as you find it in your community. Don't commit adultery doesn't just mean don't sleep with somebody else that's not your wife. It also means sexual fidelity, it also implies laws about rape, and also implies laws about being deceitful about consensual relationships. Like, okay, okay, I get that. So that's one, one theory.
David: That's right. And, and, and regardless of how we feel about this section, that is a pretty agreed-upon way to view the other laws that we've read so far in Deuteronomy, that, that Moses is unpacking the Ten Commandments. But another, another commentator I read said that here Moses kind of abandons his systematic discussion of the laws and sets that aside in order to just throw us into this mishmash of random laws. Um, and he does that, and the reason he gives is to show us the comprehensiveness of God's law, rule, and covenant in all of life. That, that it just, it bears on every single part of life, and that's why he wants to mash them around and spin them together to show that God's rule, reign, covenant, uh, commands, requirements, his eye, his gaze, all of that is upon every facet of life.
Seth: Yeah, interesting.
David: That's the other kind of view.
Seth: Do you have a preference on those?
David: I don't. I don't know how much it really matters. I don't know how much it affects my reading of the text. Um, I feel like I, I feel like both are kind of helpful. So it's like, uh, yeah, I can see how the, the last 3 of the Ten Commandments about stealing, lying, and coveting are about how to treat one another. And a lot of 22 to 25 feels like how to operate inside the community of Israel and how we treat one another, how we associate with one another as God's people. The other one is really interesting because it kind of embraces the swirly confusingness of the whiplash I experience when I read the text. And I'm like, oh, there could be a reason behind that, which is to make me feel like God's rule and reign and commands apply to all of life. So I kind of like both.
Seth: I don't know. What do you think? I kind of like the last one a little bit. Um, because even if you were to say, okay, these are loosely structured on the Ten Commandments, I feel like even as an ancient Israelite reader, you would read the laws about not wearing women's clothes and then the next law about the birds. Yeah. Like, and like not killing a bird and a baby bird at the same time. Um, which by the way, it's like we have those laws in our books. Did you know that? What? So like, you can't— like, like, there's all these hunting laws, like, where you're not— there's certain— you can't like kill— like, uh, like, I've been watching this show called Life Below Zero about people who live in the Alaskan wilderness.
David: Of course you did.
Seth: But there's all these like laws about you can't kill mother cows and baby cows during certain seasons because they're an endangered species, but they're also like the primary food for a lot of indigenous people. So there's laws that allow them to hunt bucks but not cows, right? Or their, their babies. Yeah, like, fascinating. Like, we actually have those same laws in our books. Anyway, the point was, like, I think even ancient Israelite reader would see this like, those don't seem organically connected on the surface, and it would require a good bit of, like, um, digging or thinking to actually try to build a connection between them. So, like, I think I like the idea of, like, actually the, the randomness is a little bit intentional. Um, yeah, and I think because like it also points us forward to what Moses wants to tell his people in the book of Deuteronomy as a whole. It's like, I could give you hundreds of laws, um, these laws are not enough to run a society. Like I was even like noticing as I was reading through these laws, it doesn't give you every circumstance. Like what about like, okay, a bird, great, and his and its eggs and its chicks, but what about a moose? Its offspring, right? It doesn't actually lay out the punishment for adultery. It just says, uh, purge the evil from your midst. Like, what does that mean? Like, give me more details there. It doesn't define, like, the cloak that you're supposed to spread out and prove the virginity with. Like, there's all these, like, gaps and holes within the laws as well that don't explain what's going on. So even if, like, the author Moses is thinking that this will survive through the generations, he's not even bothering to describe these practices for later generations. He's assuming that they— those— I'm assuming he would know that those practices would one day cease, but the principle would live on. So I feel like what he ends up doing is like, what you don't need is more laws. What you need is a new heart, right? Like, he'll say, like, you need an— you, like, you just don't need to be circumcised in your flesh. Your heart needs to be circumcised. So I wonder if one way to read the randomness and like the overarching expansiveness of all these laws is to say like these laws are designed to be frustrating. They're designed to not match with each other so that you would hope for a heart that didn't need them. You would hope for a heart that didn't need to constantly be reminded and have placed on it hundreds of different random laws, but a heart that just obeys because it trusts and loves the Lord. Does that make sense? Like—
David: yeah, it doesn't—
Seth: chaoticness of the laws actually makes you hope for the New Covenant. It makes you hope for a new heart, not for more laws.
David: And just to double down on that, like Moses does say that pretty soon after these random laws he talks about how yes at the end of Deuteronomy which we're nearing the end.
Seth: Yes, I knew that!
David: He talks about how we need circumcised hearts and that right and that, you know, he talks about a time when Israel will not be able to fulfill all these things. They will be exiled from the land, but then God will give them new hearts that can obey the law and will bring them into the land. And so I, I know that's in Moses's brain as he's writing this, uh, that, that he knows as he's crafting this part of the law that Israel won't keep the law and will need new hearts to come back into the land and obey the law. And so Maybe what you're saying is, as if you could view the laws as a crescendo and it's getting louder and louder and the commands are piling up and piling up and it has order and structure and you're following it along and maybe you start to feel like you're at somewhat of a breaking point and then finally it just starts to swirl around you and all these discordant and dissonant different laws smash against each other.
Seth: Obey this law, obey this law, obey this law. Birds.
David: Yeah. You're just like, Yeah, but great. Like, yeah, like what? You're just like, you're like, oh, I don't know what to do. Like, I, how can I keep up with all this? I just feel like I can't keep up with it all. And you're like, oh, and then you read a few chapters later, I'm gonna need a new heart. It makes you long for that heart.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So that makes sense. I, I'm following, I'm following along with what you're saying.
Seth: Yeah. Yes.
David: That's cool.
Seth: Okay.
David: But, um, we do want to lean into this section just because it's, it, it might be random and swirly and there might be some kind of metapoint behind it, we do want to lean into this section and kind of pick it apart a little bit. And so Seth and I kind of put our brains together and we're like, how should we talk about it? Should we go through every single law and talk about what it meant and how it is fulfilled in Christ? I think that's something you should do as a private reader. I think it's a very fun practice. It really can be, and very informative and very challenging. Uh, but instead of doing that—
Seth: Scripture being like honey, like delights in the law of the Lord, like it's honey to his soul, like So like, we want to encourage you guys to do that in like more the minutiae. Mm-hmm. Um, and we want to try to teach you how to do that by zooming out a little bit.
David: I think that's where we're going.
Seth: That's right.
David: Yeah. And so what we did is we took every single law and kind of put them in related categories and we were like, what are some of the overarching categories that are talked about in these 4 chapters? Um, and then, and so what we saw, we saw patterns develop. So basically we saw 2 major categories. There is justice, things with how to treat one another and how to provide for the poor. So, and there's 4 subcategories within justice. So we saw provision for the poor, care for neighbor, social justice, and care for the earth.
Seth: Yeah. And so that's just like, we can talk a little bit about like, like representative laws for that.
David: Yep. We'll dive into those. Yeah.
Seth: But like, yeah, like, like we, I think at one point it is helpful to say it's like, these are probably somewhat imposed categories. They're not unhealthy.
David: Oh, they are. Nope.
Seth: But like, we were like, how do we help? How do we help just organize this for our own minds? Yeah, like, if we want— if we're— let's take the chaos for what it is and make it long for Jesus making in us a new heart. But if we're going to dive deep into the laws, let's put some sort of structure on it just to help us. And I think justice is a good way to look at this first section, from 22 to, uh, what did you say?
David: Well, it's all mixed up. No, yeah, 22 to 25, it's all— there's, there's, there's these things are in all of this. That's the— it's so jumbled that it's not justice and then purity, or purity and the justice. It's all mixed around.
Seth: Got it.
David: And so there's justice is one of the overarching categories. And then there's purity. And this is the whole idea about maintaining ritual purity, or even physical purity, or who's allowed in the camp and near God's presence and who's not. And so there's 3 subcategories here, like, that has to do with like marriage and sex and keeping your bodies pure. There's ideas of wholeness, which are some of the strange laws about like, don't sow two kinds of seed in your field, or don't wear cloth with two different fabrics. And then there's purity, like people born of a forbidden union aren't allowed in the assembly, or beware of leprous diseases.
Seth: It sounds—
David: these are the ones that are like, am I reading Leviticus again? You know, is kind of where those kind of— so justice and purity. So those, we're going to address those in the next two sections. Of the podcast. But before we do, I want us to zoom way back out again. And just because you, you barely touched on it there for a second, Seth, and I want to lean into it. I don't want to jump to the end of Deuteronomy necessarily. But there is this, this sense that I think we get as readers when we read Deuteronomy 22 to 25 with the swirliness and the compounding laws. And it does make us long for not necessarily that we would be antinomians, you know, that we would be lawless.
Seth: We hate laws. We don't want law.
David: Yeah, I just wish there were no rules. Like, I just, you know, that's not what this is— what we're saying that it should make you long for. What we're saying it should make you long for is a heart that's so good and right that it doesn't need to be told what to do. It just does it.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And isn't— and that's what Jesus gives us.
Seth: Right?
David: He gives us a heart of the spirit, not a heart of flesh, that actually makes us walk in accordance with his character. We would just do these things. We would see something that's missing and return it to our brother. We would know that if I'm going to eat this animal, I shouldn't also eat its mom at the same time because I care about the overall health of the earth and I don't want there to be endangered species. Like, we would just do these things because we'd have the character of God embedded in us. And that's what Jesus does. He dies for the sin in us, which is a reigning, ruling characteristic. We are slaves to sin, and Jesus dies to free us from that enslavement and makes us slaves to righteousness. He gives us the ability, the new heart, to do right for the first time.
Seth: Yeah, Paul talks about like the law exposing sin, um, and like another way to say that is like the law, when you read all these laws, exposes in us like our propensity— like not so much our like breaking up individual things. Oh, I killed a— I killed a moose's mom. Like, like, it exposes that in particular, but it also exposes that we all the time want to do things that are not God's way. We want to define good and evil for ourselves. We want to do things contrary to the way that God has designed the universe and the world. What Jesus does is he gives us a heart that wants to do those things. Yeah, that's exactly right.
David: Yeah, that's really good. So I just feel like, yes, this should— reading these should make you thankful for what Jesus did to kill the body of sin in you. And yearn to beg the Spirit to form the image of Christ in you more, like, and be thankful that, like, when you read these things, you're like, man, who would do these— some of these horrible things, right? You know, to the poor and to a lost woman in the woods and to someone who asked for some help with a loan. And, you know, like, who would treat their neighbor like this? And the fact that you're able to ask that question and be like, man, who could be that wicked? Let us all go, I am that wicked. I would have been that wicked, let alone to myself, the lone myself. But now, because the Holy Spirit resides in me and has changed my heart, this all seems detestable to me. Of course I wouldn't do this thing. Of course if my brother was hurting or lost something, I would return it to him. That's just duh. But that's not duh to a depraved human mind. That is, that is something that has to be given to you. And so if you're saying like, duh, to some of these laws, or are disgusted that they even need to be there in the first place, that's evidence that you've been given a new heart.
Seth: Yes. Or at the very least, because I can see some of these laws, like the laws about slavery or laws about rape, like everybody, like universally, almost, almost universally, would say that those things are wrong. There should be laws about those things. So one of the other things it proves is like, uh, the Judeo-Christian laws, like Jewish laws, biblical laws, Christian laws have so permeated society that we like, we don't even recognize when they're present. Like, right, part of the reason why these laws are here also is because this wasn't the case for a lot of the surrounding nations at that time. For example, like the law about escaped slaves. So it says here, it says in Deuteronomy that if the slave escapes, you're not to send it back to its master, right? A foreign slave leaves a country where it's being oppressed or treated poorly, escapes to you, you're not supposed to send it back.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So that was not the case for all the surrounding nations. And the reason why we, like, as Americans in the 21st century are so like, yes, that's right, that shouldn't be there, that shouldn't be the case, is partly because Christianity and Christian influences have so like permeated our law structure itself. Does that make sense? Like, I wanted to talk about like a different category than just like— non-believers also value some of these same things, but I would say it's because God has revealed them in our society as well, like because Christianity is actually shaping and changing the way the world thinks about things.
David: Yep, I would agree with that. All right, well, let, uh, let's take our first break and jump into the category of justice laws. Hey, David here. Hope you're enjoying the episode so far. We are only able to make this podcast and all of our other Spoken Gospel resources available for free because of the generous support of our listeners. If you aren't already, would you please consider signing up to donate just a little every month to help us create our gospel-centered podcasts, devotionals, and videos. If you want to, you can join our mission by heading over to SpokenGospel.com. But if you're driving like I am when I listen to podcasts, please wait till you get where you're going to do so. Okay, let's jump back in.
Seth: Okay, so here we are in all the justice laws. And so as you said before, these justice laws are kind of like scattered throughout these 3, 4 chapters of the book of Deuteronomy. It's not like you're going to see one section on justice and one section on purity. It's like they're kind of scattered throughout it. And so one thing I wanted to make mention of as we dive a little bit deeper into these, um, and before we look at a couple specific examples, is the fact that like all these laws are like the context in which Jesus like lives his entire life. So we normally talk about Jesus like the fulfillment of the law, like He perfectly keeps the law to glean. Like, you know, like he perfectly does that. He perfectly keeps, um, the parapet law. His house always had a parapet. It always had a railing. So nobody would like— we know about him fulfilling it that way. But I thought it was fascinating as I was reading through this, how many of these laws in Deuteronomy just show up not as the central focus of Jesus's life, but like in the background all the time. Right? So for example, don't charge interest to your brother. The story of Zacchaeus would not exist if that law wasn't on the books. Like, Zacchaeus was charging interest to his natives, and part of the reason that's why he was hated, and that's why Jesus extends special mercy to him. Um, don't, uh, oppress the poor and the needy or the hired worker. Jesus literally tells a parable about providing jobs for hired workers and paying them different amounts and why that's grace and why that's not grace. Gleaning laws, like Jesus takes heads of grain and eats them out of the field and the Pharisees get onto him for it even though he's doing the right thing. Do you remember that one?
David: I do, yeah. They were getting onto him because it was the Sabbath.
Seth: It was the Sabbath.
David: He was just— he was just— he was not exploiting, he was using his right under the law to glean from, uh, to like walk by a farmer's crop and just grab a head of grain, right? It's allowed to do that.
Seth: It's exactly right. But you're not supposed to grab a basket of grain because that would be stealing, but also like a form of work, and that would be violating the Sabbath, right? And what I think is fascinating, a lot of these end up being like Sabbath conversations. Like the, the brother's ox goes astray and falls into a pit, you're supposed to help him take it out, presumably even on the Sabbath as well. Like the good and the alleviation of suffering of that animal is important, so you should do it. So what does Jesus do? He uses this, that law to talk about why it's right for him to heal the man who has the withered hand, right, on the Sabbath. On the Sabbath.
David: He's like, you would pull a donkey out of a pit on the Sabbath. Why can't I heal this human being's hand on the Sabbath?
Seth: That's exactly right. Or like, don't have two different types of weights. Like, what is Jesus doing in the Temple Mount? You have these people buying and selling and cheating people out of money. So Jesus goes to the temple and like doing the right thing. Don't take a baby bird and a mother bird at the same time. What does Jesus say? Doesn't God care for the birds of the field? This is like not one swallow fall from the ground that he knows it. Like, like all— so as I was reading like these laws like over and over again, like all of this is all throughout Jesus' life and ministry, maybe not as a direct fulfillment, but in the background. Or like the certificate of divorce. Jesus literally has a conversation about this with the Pharisees and the Sadducees. Doesn't Moses allow us divorce? And he says, you don't understand the law. The whole intention was for one man and one woman to be together.
David: You're like, right, yeah, and even the background of the Sadducees' fake question about who will be married in the resurrection, you know, he's like, okay, so say, say that this, this woman is married to a man and he dies, and so she marries another man and he dies, she marries another man and he dies, marries another man and he dies, 7 times over, or however many it is. Who will she be married to in, in the resurrection? I was like, that sounds eerily familiar. To one of the, the section of laws here in 22 to 25, where it's like, if a woman's married to a man and he dies and marries another man, he dies, how can she be redeemed? And who— how can she be cared for? And I'm like, I think they're just like pulling from that background to build another case, but for the resurrection. Anyway, I—
Seth: yeah, you see my point?
David: There's either one—
Seth: there's one other one I thought was really funny, um, like this ironic one. There's a section, it's like, if you make money as a prostitute you can't go give that money back to the temple. Like, if you gain money by dishonest means, you can't use that, or like illicit means, you can't use that to like build God's temple or build his kingdom. Um, so what's fascinating is what does Judas do? Yep, he receives money for betraying Jesus and then tries to give it back to, to them. And what do they say? We can't take it because it was gained by dishonest means. But like, they gave it to him. It's so— anyway, like The point is, like, all these laws are the context in which Jesus is— the conflict Jesus has with the Pharisees and the Sadducees. And every time it proves Jesus's righteousness and his rightness and his goodness and the evilness of those who twist and misconstrue the law to their own ends. So I don't know if that's like a classic Jesus, like, turn that we normally do on here, but I think it's important to note, like, all these laws, like You can't make sense of the New Testament without— or the Gospels— without knowing that these laws govern the society in which Jesus becomes Messiah. Yeah, yeah.
David: I think, I think it is a really important thing just to note, uh, for another reason why you should be reading this section and why you should care about it is because, like, this is the background of Jesus's ministry. Like, you're not going to understand a lot of the passages that we read about in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John without Deuteronomy 22 to 25. Like, you just need those as a background. But then I do think it is a really interesting way to talk about Jesus being the fulfillment of the law, that in Jesus, when we see him doing things that we kind of even like non-Christians admire him for, like, oh, that was cool. Like, what a baller move, you know? Like, Jesus, like, totally owned them, you know? Like, yeah, he's just like, when he's doing these things, what's he actually doing? He's not just being some rebel or revolutionary or, you know, or zealot. He's just obeying the law. Yes.
Seth: And obeying the law as God intended it.
David: Yes. He's obeying the heart and the purpose of the law.
Seth: Like, so the gleaning thing, like he's allowed to go and take like a couple of heads of grain, a few grapes off the vine and eat those. The Pharisees came along and added rules on top of it. Mm-hmm. So you couldn't do it on the Sabbath, couldn't do it in this way, couldn't do this way. And what does Jesus do to rebuke them? He just obeys the law. Yeah.
David: It's an interesting way to talk about how there's freedom in the law. Oh, right.
Seth: Thought about that.
David: Yeah. Where it's like there's freedom here in the law. Like you even mentioned it in the intro, how we— how like it's like Moses doesn't get into the minutia of it all. He doesn't get— he doesn't explain how to do absolutely everything. And that's probably to provide some wiggle room and some freedom, you know, to like, yeah, glean on the Sabbath. It's, it's cool, you know?
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: And so it's when we come along with all these man-made rules and traditions, which Jesus hated, and try to say that's God's law. And that's when, that's when God's like, no. So that's a really interesting way to talk about how Jesus fills the law. Okay, so justice laws, we've, we've picked out a ton of them. Um, you know, overarching, there's like provision for the poor. There's laws about provision for the poor. Like you mentioned one about not returning the escaped slave. There's about like, if, if, if someone borrows from you, don't charge them interest. You know, there was this whole idea of when, when someone is, is one of your loaners and they've borrowed money from you, they would give you a pledge collateral, basically.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And for a poor person, their collateral was usually like the tent they slept in or their cloak or something they needed day to day. And it says, don't keep their pledge, their collateral overnight. Make sure you give the cloak that they gave to you as collateral back to them so they don't get cold at night. And then you can take it back in the morning when it's warm. But like, just be a nice dude, you know? Like, and so like, there's all these rules. Don't be a punk. So there's all these rules that are providing for the poor. Gleanings is one of them, like we talked about. And so I just think it would be interesting for us to have a conversation about like, why are— is there so many laws? Why are there so many laws about providing for the poor, the sojourner, the widow, the orphan here in these miscellaneous, miscellaneous texts and laws?
Seth: Why are they here at all?
David: Yeah.
Seth: Oh gosh.
David: I mean, the top level, we, we know throughout the Old Testament, God cares for the orphan, the widow, the poor, the oppressed, the outcast. Israel was poor, oppressed, slaved, you know, like, right.
Seth: Even if you like break down the law into like its two parts, love God and love your neighbor. Mm-hmm. The neighbor you're most likely to forget, to love, or you're least likely to love are those that are poor and orphaned and widowed or—
David: that's right—
Seth: marginalized in some sense. So like God is making sure, like, by having these laws here that you don't forget that all these people are also your neighbors. The foreigner is also your neighbor, which is also another thing that Jesus picks up on multiple times with the Samaritan person.
David: Like, yeah, anyway, yeah. And so I think it's just really amazing to remember like a few things as we think about laws about justice and laws about providing for the poor It's that like a lot of times in this text you'll hear him refer to Israel's old state in Egypt. It's like, don't forget you were enslaved in Egypt, you were sojourners through the wilderness, like you've been there. Don't forget what that feels like. Make sure you love people, you know, and care for, care for the outcast. So he wants them to repeat the story of grace that has happened to them to other people through their actions. And I'm like, that's what Jesus calls us to do, right? Like We've had great grace shown to us. We've been so greatly loved. Therefore, go love.
Seth: You know, like, I'm thinking like what Paul says, like, uh, he like kind of lists all these sins, like murderers, slanderers, homosexuals, whatever, you know. And he says, and such were some of you.
David: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Seth: And he's asking them to remember their former life of sin and then reflect on how God has saved them.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So I'm like, I, I don't know if I normally think about like how the fact that God saved me from like legalism or from like whatever my like pride or whatever it is, how this should actually make me more compassionate towards people who suffered and struggled the same way that I did. That's right. Does that make sense?
David: Yes, it absolutely does.
Seth: I think that we do that intuitively. Like if we struggle with sexual sin, we have a lot more grace and mercy towards those people who have struggled with that. Um, but when it comes to like making laws for society or even engaging in public discourse about like politics or whatever else. I wonder how instructive it would be for, like, if we're going to make laws about orphans, the only— what it— I mean, this is ridiculous, but like, what if the only people who can make those laws were orphans who had been adopted? Like, you know what I mean? Like, right, what would it look like to always inhabit the role of somebody who had sinned like that and needed mercy and grace to get to where they are right now? Like, I wonder what a society look where all the laws about homosexuality were people who had experienced that and then experienced freedom by God in that same place. Like, you know what I mean?
David: Like, what would it be like? Totally. Yeah. And I think that's supposed to be the Christian experience is like, we are supposed to reflect on how we were slaves to sin, like enslaved by it. Like we were just given to its passions and lusts, as Paul says, like we were depraved in our minds. We were enemies of God. And so now when Christians meet these kinds of people, you know, what's their reaction? They judge them. They're like, how could they do that? Like, oh, that man, that was so messed up that they acted that way. Or like, oh, gross, that's so wicked. And it's like, such were some of you.
Seth: Like, for some of you.
David: And so when we see sin, we should be led to compassion and like, they need Jesus. Like, I need to love this person as Christ loved me when I was in that same condition.
Seth: Right.
David: And so we need to reflect on our former state of enslavement to sin, as God was instructing Israel to do so. And that will cause us to love the physically poor, you know, more. Yeah, the outcasted, but also those who struggle with sin and alcoholism, homosexuality, things like that.
Seth: We've talked about like, your ethics aren't defined like as someone who has experienced the thing you're legislating against or like arguing against, you're actually living a sub-Christian and sub-godly life. Like, God intends for us, for the law to always rehearse our freedom from slavery, from it.
David: Yes, that's right.
Seth: To always have that in the back of his mind. And I think a lot— I think, I mean, you could probably— we want to diagnose the problem with like Christian nationalism It's that a lot of times it doesn't do that. It does not assume that we are like the people we're legislating against. Like, we're not talking to people as if we could have been and are them at the same time. So like, I wonder what it would— like, just, I'm just like, man, the humility necessary to actually build laws like this everywhere.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Is— I've never seen before.
David: No, no. Because it, it, yeah, it's only sustainable by, from people who have been so impacted by the gospel of Jesus, you know, that, that they could actually—
Seth: it also gives me new categories too for like the harsh laws, the more harsh laws. Like, think about it this way, think about like, um, stone the adulterer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is like, which is part of these, part of some of the purity laws. Yeah. Like, um, uh, there's a category for me in all this that like, if I'm an adulterer and I have been an adulterer, I need extreme, uh, like incentives not to do that thing. Like, I know my heart is always bent towards sin. I know that I'm always prone to doing the wrong thing, and unless I have like strong disincentives, I'm gonna go towards that direction. Does that make sense?
David: Uh-huh. Yep.
Seth: So like, yeah, I'm prone to be—
David: I'm prone to sexual sin, and the fact that if I'm— if I commit that sin, I'll be stoned is a strong incentive not to commit that sin, right?
Seth: And it's not done out of cruelty and out of like a puritanical desire for some like spotless place. It's actually done like, I could have been you, and I'm putting this law here so I— so no less people are like me, like, so that our society doesn't—
David: like, yeah, I see what you're—
Seth: I'm trying to like reverse the way that feels because it feels puritanical. It feels zealous. It feels like authoritarian and oppressive. Yeah, like, what if that's actually a position of humility?
David: It definitely— it, it definitely— yeah, can— I think it should be viewed that way and viewed in the way that the purity laws try to address it, that which we'll get to the next section about purging evil from your midst.
Seth: But I was thinking about some, like, bylaws we had to write for our church at one point in time, and they were, like, against nepotism, uh, so, like, preferring, like, your related spouses in, like, a boardroom setting.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And we imagined a time in the future where we would have sons or cousins on the board of the church or as elders, and how we as leaders might be inclined to accept their position or their opinion more readily than anybody else's. So we, knowing our sinful hearts towards nepotism, wanted to make laws within our bylaws to prevent that from happening. And I thought that was like really— I think that's another way, like a wise way of like thinking about the law too. Like, we could be like this, so let's make laws so that we are not like this.
David: Yeah, let me repeat that back. Yeah, I think I know what you're saying. Is another way to read— as we read some of these laws, another way to think about them is, what is this law trying to prohibit that is definitely in my heart right now?
Seth: Yes.
David: Like, when I see a lost wallet on the side of the street, my first inclination is free money, right? You know, not, oh no, that poor person. You know, like, so how do I examine that in my heart? Repent, be aware of it. Same thing with any other law. Is that, is that kind of what you're saying? Like, yes, if the law is here, God is saying, I know your heart, I want to help you, like, from committing these destructive things that will ruin you and your society and our relationship. So like, know that this is here. And that kind of goes back to what you said about Paul's use of the law, saying that it tells us what sin is. It's like, hey, this is in your heart. It's like these various laws are like, you know, fingers that just come and point at you and say, you do this, you do this, you're like this, you're like this. And we're like, oh yeah, I am. Now maybe I wouldn't manifest it in that specific way, but there is a sin behind that that I'm definitely prone to. Is that what you're talking about?
Seth: That's exactly right.
David: So I think what we could talk about then in a really general way is we as human beings are prone to injustice. We are prone to oppress others for our own benefit. We are prone to push others down and lift ourselves up. Right. Like, and that is what God hates. Like, he hates that. And we— and the reason why he hates it is, yes, it is wrong, like, in and of itself. But this is— this is that old— what is this, the Euthyphro dilemma, I think is what it's called.
Seth: Yes, yes, yes. Where it's good. Yes.
David: Yeah. Is something good because God said it?
Seth: Um, or God say it because it's good?
David: Or did God say it because it's good?
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so this is that idea is like, yes, it's bad. Like, but it's also bad because God does not operate that way. He does not push others down to lift himself up. Like, that's not how his justice works.
Seth: Right.
David: Like, like, in fact, we see that most clearly in Jesus, right?
Seth: This most— yeah, like a lot of time laws are built, are made by the oppressor, right? Made by the most powerful.
David: Yep.
Seth: And the way that God continually tells Israel to build their laws is not by assuming a position of power, but by remembering their moments of weakness. Remember that you were once slaves. Remember that you used to be like this. Remember that you were adulterers, right? And build laws that you would want done for you.
David: Definitely.
Seth: He's actually like, I forget his name. I think his name is like, um, I want to say it's Rawls. He's like a modern moral philosopher. And he actually talks about that's actually one of the better ways. Like he's trying to build a morality without God, but he says like the best way to build a morality is by putting a whole bunch of people in a room and assigning them roles like engineer, poor person, uh, foreigner, uh, marginalized group, uh, CEO. And then build laws not knowing which one of those people you'd become, right? Next society.
David: Yes, yes.
Seth: It's like, that's actually a lot of biblical truth there. Anyway, I was just thinking about that.
David: Yeah. And so it's just like, I think we can just see that we are prone to push people's— push people down to lift ourselves up. Uh, and so like, how— if we're going to close this section off and kind of go, how do we see Jesus in the justice laws? It's that Jesus, one, fulfills all justice perfectly. He always finds a way to provide for the most marginalized, the most poor, the most disenfranchised, the most oppressed. He cares for his— the entire neighborhood of his planet Earth like no one else, right? Not only in, like, material ways, like he makes it rain, you know, so we can have food and he keeps the sun shining.
Seth: People, but for sparrows.
David: Yes, exactly.
Seth: Yes.
David: And like, he— anyway, but he also does this in the most extreme way by not being this kind king who does kind things for those below him. So he's a kind ruler who shows mercy and grace.
Seth: Yes.
David: You know, but also whenever someone lies in court, or whenever someone tries to defraud a widow, or when someone does something evil, he's also a good judge who does correct that and wants to get evil out of the city. Let's get evil out of here. Let's make this good. So he does those things as a king.
Seth: Rapists do not deserve to live. That's kingdom.
David: That's right.
Seth: Yeah, get him out.
David: Get them out. But then the other thing that happens is that king also becomes poor and needy and ends up taking all, all of these penalties for breaking social justice, you know, on himself. And like, so he's able to fulfill justice but also absorb justice at the same time on the cross.
Seth: He makes laws now, not just as an all-powerful king who's never experienced suffering, marginalization, or temptation. But as a king who knows what those things are intimately. He remembers the time that he was a slave to his body and then now makes laws for our good, um, as he rules in heaven.
David: Okay, so we've We've talked about all the miscellaneous laws. We've talked about this overarching category of justice laws with, you know, care for the poor, care for neighbor, social justice, taking care of the earth, all those things in it. And then as you're reading, some of those kind of make sense, I think, as you're reading. Those are the ones that I'm kind of like, cool, I'm glad that was there. You know, like the justice ones, I'm kind of like, I'm glad God cares for the orphan, and like, I'm glad he wants me to treat my neighbor right. Like, those to me, when I read this section, aren't the the ones that throw me for a loop. It's the other category of the purity laws that kind of feel like out of place. Um, now maybe the most not out of place are the ones relating to marriage and sex, you know, which could easily blend into the justice laws, right? Like, treat your neighbor well— that includes your wife, it includes the virgin who lives next door, it includes the woman you meet on the side of the road, you know, who you could have exploited in your lust, but you shouldn't. Like, so it could definitely blend into the justice laws. I put it in the purity laws just because so much of sexuality, marriage, what we do with our bodies ends up making us clean or unclean and making the land pure or impure, that I thought we should include it.
Seth: Purity, like, purge the evil from your midst, is found— is found all throughout the marriage and sex laws as well.
David: That's right.
Seth: Like the ritual going to the temple laws as well.
David: Right. And so, and maybe that's a really good moment to just remind everyone that these are imposed categories that we made up. These aren't biblical categories that you should, you know, preach, or you can if it's helpful. Right. But these aren't like, these aren't—
Seth: we're trying to wait a minute— 45 laws in 40 minutes.
David: Yeah, totally. So, so there's— so in these, in these purity laws, the The 3 categories that I kind of broke them down into were marriage and sex, wholeness, and purity. Um, and so, yep. So yeah, go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. Like, yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure.
Seth: So you kind of mentioned 4. So like, a woman is not to wear man's clothes.
David: Yep.
Seth: Uh, you're not supposed to plant 2 different types of seed in a field. You're not supposed to plow a field with an ox and a donkey, only ox or only donkey. And you can't wear clothes that do 2 different types of fabric. I think some of these are like some of the most famous laws in the Old Testament. Yeah. Because they always get used like, hey, you say this is wrong, but the Bible also says you can't wear polyester tri-blends. Like you can't wear tri-blend shirts. Like, it's like, I feel like it's, it's famous only for that reason. So I'd love to like actually talk about why that actually makes sense. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
David: Um, so it goes back to like what we talked about way back in Leviticus podcasts.
Seth: Uh, actually we went back to Genesis.
David: But okay, we definitely can. But what I was going to do was talk about, just because it's in this purity context here, is what's happening is God is using visual illustrations for, like, to make theological points. So he's using physical things to make theological points. And so one of those, and it blends in with some of these other purity laws, are like, if someone's— excuse me, like, close your kids' ears, maybe, I don't know. But if someone's testicles are crushed, you know, then they are not there to be excluded from the assembly. The same thing is talked about in Leviticus, that if a priest has that affliction, they can't minister in the tabernacle because they're incomplete. They're not whole. They're not perfect. And so the— so this idea of blending things of two types of cloth, an ox and a donkey, two kinds of seed, a woman wearing man's clothes or a man wearing woman's clothes, These are blending things that aren't meant to be blend. It's taking something pure and introducing something foreign to it, which makes it impure, because that's really all purity is. Purity is something whole and unique. It's one thing, and introducing something else into it makes it multiple things. And so this is a, this is a visual representation of how Israel is to keep themselves pure. They're not to intermarry with other cultures, right? They're not to worship other gods. They're not, you know, like all these other things are represented in the wholeness that is in their field and in their, in their clothes. It's meant to be a reminder to them every day that they are set apart to be whole, unique, and only for God.
Seth: And that idea of like singleness or uniformity, it goes back to like, um, Genesis, where God says the trees shall produce after their own kind, the animals should produce after their own kind. Men and women are supposed to produce after their own kind. Like, there's this— like, there's this— God has instituted like some sort of like created order, order where like things produce like things.
David: Yes.
Seth: And so I think like the two kinds of seed and plow with it— don't only plow with an ox or a donkey, not an ox and a donkey— on those ones, I think it's like less moral and more like—
David: I don't think any of these are moral. I don't think any of these are moral.
Seth: It's, it's worshipful. It's like, yeah, our God is a God who's ordered the world.
David: Yep.
Seth: And it's not wrong to plant barley and wheat in the same field. Right. But I can, by planting my field, one field with barley and the other field with wheat, actually communicate something about the way that God created the world. Right. God created the world for things to produce like things. And I am going to do that all the time. Right. Um, and I want that to show in the way I plant my field and the clothes that I wear. Right. Um, in this— in the way that I plow my field. God made me and our world in a certain way, and I want to honor him by doing that.
David: Yeah. So that leans into the order, um, explanation for wholeness, these wholeness commands, which I think is also equally valid. Um, I really like the, the, the blended versus non-blended, pure versus impure kind of Yeah, ritual category, since that seems to be the context. I tend to favor that one over the, um, the order one, right? But some people I've read said that in all the midst of this disorder, we find order commands to show that even in the chaos of life, God is giving us these order commands to show that there is, um, some kind of systematic thing still happening.
Seth: Yeah, I think what you just said, systematic thing happening. I think, remember, this whole section, like, we're imposing these categories a little bit here. Yeah, it's not— but they're not mutually exclusive either. Is there an element of order to these commands? Yes, obviously.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Is there an element of purity to these commands? Yes. And what you're supposed to do when you come to these laws is not just read them, you're supposed to meditate on them. It's like, I hope what we're training you to do when you go and read this for yourself is to think about the two different kinds of seed and the plowing with an ox or a donkey, not an ox and a donkey, and think, okay, what could that mean? Why would God command this? Why does this make sense for God to command? And we say, well, God created the universe with order. Galaxies move in motion. There are regular laws of the universe. Trees produce— apple trees produce other apple trees. Cows produce other cows. So it makes sense that you would plant a field that would produce another field of the same thing. Right, that makes total sense. Yeah. Also, God is a God of oneness and purity, and it makes sense that to show the purity of God and the purity of our people would express itself everywhere. So it is wholeness, it is order, it is purity. The idea here isn't to have one monolithic answer, especially in a section that's so seemingly disjointed. Yeah, but like, it's to meditate on the law and then make principles and applications for new cultures and new times. So like, yeah, it's—
David: well, and I, I'd want to push back a little bit on that last thing you said.
Seth: Okay.
David: Especially when we're talking about the purity laws. And so it's like, I don't, I don't know if the right thing for us to do is to always say, what is the principle underneath this law that is true for all people at all times?
Seth: Okay.
David: I don't think— I think the first question we should ask is, what is the principle underneath this law that was true for Israel in her time, in her covenant? Okay, because I think the most important thing that's happening that we need to, that we need to know is like, these laws are all part of the covenant that God and Israel made together. Like, they are forming a people and a nation and a land and a political system and all these things together with Yahweh. And this is a covenant that they're making with him, an agreement. And so for instance, especially when it comes to things like the two seeds or the ox and the donkey, like, I think the most important thing for us to see is kind of like what we saw in the food laws about clean and unclean foods, that that was the reason why people should eat these foods and not those foods, wasn't because God was trying to be some kind of helpful menu selector, where he knew that pigs were, were actually bad for you. And so you should, you should eat crickets instead. You know, it's like, yeah, he was trying to do something theological there. To say, like, I'm choosing these animals just like I chose you, Israel. You are clean to me. Everything else I didn't choose is unclean to me, like the Canaanites and the Moabites. So I think the same thing is happening here where he's like, I am creating you as a pure, unified people. Don't intermarry, don't intermix. So in like fashion, only wear wool cloth or linen cloth. Don't mix them together. Don't put two seeds together. Because like you are a single unified whole that's not supposed to be interpolluted with other cultures and other gods and intermarrying with them. I just think all that's really important. Um, so it's a theological point first that I think we should realize is, oh, God's making a unified family. That should be the theological thing we pull out of this and go, oh, he's still doing that today in Jesus, that we are one in Christ. And like, yes. No matter where we come from, whatever background we come from, when we come into Christ, we're one with him. And like, we don't want to— and we don't want to pollute that. We don't say that Jesus is one God among many. Like, we don't—
Seth: we don't—
David: we don't bring in foreign ideas to Christianity. Like, I'll take a little bit of Islam and a little bit of Judaism and a little bit of Buddhism. Like, we don't do that. We are whole cloth people, like, devoted to Jesus. So I think To me, I would, I would say the proper way to do exegesis on these texts is, especially with some of these purity wholeness commands, is to say what's the theological point first in its original context, and then apply that to us today. Not to be like, you know, like, maybe we really should— because people have used the two seeds thing to like say like we shouldn't make, you know, um, hybrid seeds, you know, that can grow, can grow year-round, you know. Yeah, I'm just saying like You could, you could end up making some really interesting, like, you know,
Seth: the point here is that God has made laws for particular people at a particular time to make a particular point.
David: Yeah.
Seth: That particular point is still being made today.
David: Yes.
Seth: I called it a principle, but maybe like that particular point, like God wants one unified holy people. And the way that looks today is profoundly different. Than it was several thousand years ago in Israel. Yeah, it's not so much about hybrid GMO seeds, right? And it's not about using a tractor and, uh, a combine, or a combine or a tractor. It's about having a people who have ordered their life around God's law.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And his desire for the world and for themselves. And people who love God's law, who delight in his commands and what he's building in them, will be the type of people that are described here. So it gets a little confusing for me there because it's like, okay, then what is he— what is he actually commanding? Yeah, well, I mean, just unity, like with two kinds of seed or one kind of seed? It's more than that. There's a specific moral element to it. Like, there are actual commands that cause us— that means we need to change our behavior.
David: I think that there are moral commands, and there are purity commands, or, you know, cultic commands, you know, I, and I think that breaking— so I think this is the distinction I would try to make, is that is, is the idea of putting two seeds in one field a wicked thing? No, I don't think that's a moral thing that God did. Is the fact that when God says that you must do this, Israel, in their time and in their place and under that covenant, if Israel broke that command, would that be an immoral thing to do? Yes.
Seth: Yes.
David: So I now I think, I think what gets difficult for us as we try to— and this is where it gets just— everything gets difficult as we're like, well, then is rape bad all the time in all places, in all ways? You know, like, Yes. Yeah. And so I think what is helpful is to understand that there are moral commands in here. But there are also cultic, religious, like, you know, ritualistic commands as well. And they're smashed up next to each other. And that's what makes this so disjointing. But here's what I want to point out to us, like a reason, another reason, if I was going to think not just in Deuteronomy, But if I was going to think canonically across the whole Old Testament, like, why are these smashed together? Why do you have justice laws about how to treat your neighbor and how to treat women and how to treat the poor smashed up against, like, who can be included in the assembly and what kinds of seeds to use and wholeness commands? Like, why are these ritual commands shoved up against just wrong things that need to be acted justly towards, you know?
Seth: Yeah.
David: Uh, I think this is the reason. When you go forward in Israel's history, what we see is they try to divorce those two. They try to, they try to take and keep the purity commands but refuse to do the justice commands. So they keep offering right sacrifices and they keep having whole priests and they wear the right kind of garments and they, they, they don't put two kinds of seed in their fields, but they mistreat the orphan and the widow and they defraud people and they charge interest and they use weights incorrectly. And they— and so God says, I don't care about the purity laws you keep until you also keep the justice laws. So do right and sacrifice to me correctly.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so, you know, as we read Isaiah, Jeremiah, Amos, you know, we see these things divorce. And this section about miscellaneous laws shoves them together because they show that right relationship with God is inseparable from right relationship with neighbor. Yes, and love God, love your neighbor.
Seth: Jesus is always butting up against the Pharisees and the Sadducees. They're keeping the moral, the purity law, the purity law perfectly. Yep, like exactly, more than perfectly. But they have neglected love of father, love of mother, love of neighbor, love of orphan, love of like injured, love of—
David: yeah, he says you tithe down to the dill, like you give a tenth of even your spices, but you've neglected the weightier things, namely the care of orphans and widows. Like, what's wrong with you?
Seth: Faster.
David: And he says— and what he says is, you should have done the former without neglecting the latter. I'm not saying stop doing the purity law things. I'm just saying you need to do both. And that's why they're shoved together here, I think. So anyway, and isn't that what Jesus does for us on the cross? Like, he fulfills all the justice that needed to be done, but he does it in a ritualistic way. He does it in the context and with the definitions of purity culture. He was the perfect, whole, spotless lamb that was given for us, that makes us able to be a part of the assembly, cleans us up, fulfills all— he fulfills all the justice and all the purity laws at once. He is the perfect blending of the two, both in keeping and in fulfilling. Like, it's, it's beautiful, like, what— how he's able to do that.
Seth: So anyway, um, with the two kinds of seeds thing, I think I found a way to think about it. Like, what's the point that the law is making? What is the point the two seeds law is making? It's making a point that how you earn your living, how you feed your family, should be patterned off of God's creative order and God's purity and wholeness. And so, like, what is— so I think as we think about our careers or the way that we make our living, those two should be done with an eye to, is this a godly way to live, make a living? Is this an impure way to make a living? Is this a disordered way to make a living? And what does Jesus say? You can't serve God and money, right? You actually can't sow two different kinds of crops in the same field.
David: Yeah, you can't—
Seth: like, you cannot. Yeah, that way. That's right.
David: In the field of your life or in the field of your heart, you can't have God and money grow up in the same field. You just can't do it. You have to choose. Yeah. I wonder if that gives background also to the parable about the weeds and the wheat.
Seth: I was thinking the same thing.
David: Yeah, that's so funny because like God comes and sows good seed And then a neighbor comes in and sows bad seed. And not only is that like mean, it's also breaking the law. It's just interesting. Like, this is what happens when you read the Torah. It just adds layers to the rest of the Bible as you read.
Seth: You said multiple times, like, we read our New Testament or the Gospels far differently now that we've spent so much time in the Torah. And I think like, I think you're right. Like two kinds of seed. There's a field with two different kinds of seeds in it. And what does God do? He separates the true seed. From the false seed to make one new people.
David: Yes.
Seth: He's doing the same thing that is what's intended right here. Wow.
David: Even when we try to make a mixed cloth blend, God is able to pull the threads apart and make one unified cloth people at the end. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Anyway, well, we could go on and on and on. I know we zoomed through 4 chapters with really broad categories, but I hope this has been helpful. It's been helpful for me. I'm excited to reread this and take it in again. But we are, we are slowly, slowly getting toward the end of Deuteronomy. And we've got some more broad categories like coming up that aren't just laws. We're about out of the law section. So yeah, rejoice and be glad, but also go back and taste the sweet honey of the law.
Seth: Yeah, I'm excited for whatever. What's next after Deuteronomy?
David: Oh, you and I have to decide. I think we— I think you and I might do Esther.
Seth: That will be fun.
David: Yeah.
Seth: I'm excited to do something that's not the Pentateuch. I've loved the Pentateuch. I have too. I'm like, let's do a narrative. Let's do something else.
David: So I think, I think Esther will be fun to do next. So yeah. Anyway. All right guys. Well, it's been a blast hanging with you for a little bit. Thank you for listening and we will see you guys next week.
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